Zakk in Michigan

[00:00:00] I want to be happy every day, but a lot of days I wake up and I don't say this to be woe is me. I mean, I just, this is my head. There's a lot of days that I wake up and I think, how much is my brain going to tell me to end my life today?

[00:00:37] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors and ideators so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. And when we do talk about it, when we engage with people in pain, most of us, the great majority of us are very, very bad at it. And that is a very, very large problem. And a lot of people are dying specifically

[00:01:07] because of this. So one of my goals with this podcast, I know I sound like an arrogant fuck. I've paid my fucking dues. One of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors and ideators, survivors, so that more people in more places can hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone. So if you are a suicide attempt survivor or ideator and you'd like to talk, reach out, please. Hello at suicidenoted.com.

[00:01:34] You can learn more about the podcast at suicidenoted.com among other places, including our new fiscal sponsor. There's a new link. If you'd like to make a tax deductible donation, I don't know right now what will happen if you click on the old link. I'm hoping it forwards. It may, it may not. If it doesn't message me, I'll get you the new link. We could use the help. One more note. I've been doubling up on episodes for many, many months now. And this Thursday will be, should be the last one

[00:02:03] for a little while. Voices from the tour out West. I'm going to take a break, do the Monday episodes, only the one-on-ones and focus on a couple of different ways we can make this podcast and Sean stay the fuck alive and make a little money. One of the things I've learned and it's taken a long time is that without money, life is really fucking hard. Beyond that, should things work out, I will be making announcements here in the introductions as well as email to past guests for update episodes,

[00:02:32] which I very much love and hope you want to update your life with me and our awesome audience around the world. Finally, we're talking about suicide here on this podcast. My guests and I do not hold back. Please take that into account before you listen or as you listen. In any case, I do hope you listen because there's so much to learn. Today, I am talking with Zach, double K. Zach lives in

[00:02:55] Michigan and he is a suicide attempt survivor. Zach. What's up, brother? I'm a little bit excited. I'm, going on vacation tomorrow. So, Oh sweet. Where are you going? Uh, we're going to the Bahamas on a cruise. Ooh. Uh, and when cruises are gross to me, but I hope you enjoy yourself. It is my very first one. So this is, it's a short one. So it's a, it's a trial. So I'm being such a dick and you

[00:03:22] going with your family? Yes. Uh, uh, I'm going with my fiance and her father and mother-in-law. So you have another human being in the world who wants to spend the rest of their life with you. That's fucking, isn't that cool? I do. Yeah. She's, she's amazing. She's the only, well, she, she knows that, uh, I'm doing this today. So she's the only one, um, her and my mom. Okay. So you got the ladies, the lady supporting Zach, Zach with two K's by the way, if you're wondering. Yes. Is that

[00:03:51] your real name? Yes, it is. Uh, where do you live? I live in Michigan, Michigan. Cause there's still four States where I've never spoken to anyone from, and I'm always hoping one of those. I know I want Delaware. I've been to Delaware. Doesn't make a difference. They can't use it. Yeah. I often, sorry. Uh, you've been to Delaware. I've been to Delaware too. So why did you want to talk

[00:04:16] with me, Zach about this, this looking to share my, share my story, share my experience, I guess. Yeah, of course. And then, and this will be out well after you come back from your Bahamas cruise, little known anecdote that most people don't give a fuck about. I was on one of the very few cruises I've ever been during the, I want to say two, 2007 ish tsunami. Oh really? It was in the Caribbean,

[00:04:40] which is far, but we had to, we had to dock. Yeah. It was awful, bro. Like I already hate boats and I get sick even on big boats. That was like, I ain't doing that shit again, but I hope you have fun. I don't like the idea of traveling anywhere. Like I can't get in a car and drive home. Right. Like, let's talk about control. Everybody used to say that's so irrational. Oh,

[00:05:05] you're so irrational. But then COVID happened and people were getting trapped on these cruise ships and stuff. You know what I mean? So I'm, it is a fear in the back of my head. One of the things that I've learned, I think I'm a little older than you and you said, so how old are you? I'm 33. Okay. So yes, yes. I've got some several years and you're not that it really makes a difference, but you said something like people always say this is irrational. You know what? One of the interesting things I've learned, most people are fucking dumb. And so once you

[00:05:33] understand that, it really changes a lot of how you sort of hear things because you're like, you know, Oh, you're just dumb. So then what you're saying may not be logical or anything I would ever even consider listening to. If you find a small percentage of people, maybe like your fiance who aren't like that, then it's awesome. Then you marry them or you spend more time with them. I'm giving you this, this is the, the nuggets of wisdom that I'm going to throw out

[00:06:01] to you today. Now, those of you out there who think, wow, Sean, what are you rude or juvenile thing to say that most people are dumb? You're probably one of the dumb people, probably one of them. And, and everybody, like, I guess it's, it's perspective too. Right. Because if we didn't know each other passing by, like if we were driving down the road together, you could make a move and I

[00:06:24] could be like, he's dumb, you know? Oh, not, not maybe probably. Right. Exactly. So all the time now we're, we're an asshole and I could give you like, well, there's reasons I'm an asshole. No, no, no, no. People have reasons for being a serial killer. I mean, there's reasons. Like in your case, you're still a suicide attempt survivor. No matter what the story is, you did it. That's yeah. How many times? So I, I, I've spent a lot of time recently, but since I, I messaged you

[00:06:54] going back and listening to more episodes, because I knew these questions were going to come up. Wait, wait, wait, just the audience knows I always, and I sent them to you. Yes. Yes. There's no real surprises here, but you'll get a few curveballs. Don't worry. You'll get a few. I took notes. I guess what I would say is from, from learning more from my peers, I will call them as, and learning more from therapy and stuff that they've gotten is anytime you took medication or

[00:07:24] you had a thought of harming yourself. Yeah. I heard somebody say you would count that as an attempt. So in that case, I don't know. Right. But times that I, I physically tried to harm myself and didn't care what the outcome was, I got three. All right. We'll talk about those. Okay. Yep. We could talk at length about the others if you want, but that'll be a four hour conversation. Right. Right. Enjoy, but editing is not fun when it's four hours. No.

[00:07:52] Let me do this. So number one, thanks for talking with me. Yes, sir. Appreciate it. Especially given you're going on a cruise tomorrow, you probably got a lot of packing to do and all sorts of shit. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta get, you gotta have, you gotta have like those like cheesy, like surfer type shorts you're going to wear. No, no, that's, that's not me. And luckily I don't have to do a whole ton of the packing.

[00:08:15] That's my fiance as she handles that. I'm organizing. So I have three children, two of them with an ex-wife. So I have to organize that, the logistics of us being gone. All right. To just be clear, Zach at 33 years old living in Michigan, not the, not the UP, just to be clear, right? Just Michigan. No, no. You had a second human being who wanted to spend the rest of her life with you at some point too. Yeah. Dad, I, I, I've had nobody. How do you think that makes me feel?

[00:08:45] Don't you feel bad, a little bit badly? Like you've had two. I do. What, what, what about what's wrong with me? Nothing, man. There's nothing wrong with anybody when it comes to finding your person. It's all about. Here's the wisdom. It makes you happy, I guess. And, and, and that can change over time, right? Because I tell a lot of people this, the qualities that first attracted me to my ex-wife are not the same things that I was searching for the second time around.

[00:09:14] Let me throw something out there that I think one of the qualities was that you were interested in, in your first wife. What's that? She was really hot. That was one of them. Okay. You know, there's attraction that matters. I get it. Okay. Yeah. You had two kids, that marriage broke up. You have a child with your fiance. Yeah, that's correct. Yep. That means that you have, they are to each other half siblings. Yes. You're, so we're going with three? Yes, sir.

[00:09:44] Formal, official, serious. Yeah. I don't know how you want to, what you want to call it, but. Let's let, let's let, let's let the professional researcher, doctor, expert, counselor, therapist, or suicidologist decide exactly the definitions. That's not my role. Before I ask you about them, I want to know how it is that you stumbled upon this podcast. So I found it shortly after what I would say, well, no, shortly after what was my first attempt.

[00:10:12] And I was just looking for an outlet and that would have been in this, that would have been in August of 2024. So like September, I think is when I first started listening. So you've had your three attempts in a rather short period of time. Yeah. All right. So everything up until 31 years old, we'll talk about, but those were pre, pre attempt attempts, but, but I have a mass thing there, including some of those other things you

[00:10:40] mentioned about what others think of as attempts, thinking about getting really drunk, whatever. Yep. Correct. 2024, you find it because you're looking to hear other human beings who have gone through something. Yeah, pretty much. And it was, I've heard a lot of people on the podcast say this, everything that you search for online is if you search suicide survivor. Yep.

[00:11:06] Or a suicide attempt or, or anything, it's, it's family of someone who's already passed. It's the tear jerk stories, which they have their place, their time and place. I was beyond that. And I think anybody who's attempted suicide, they've had, they think about family, you know, that's a huge misconception. We can go down that road. Yeah. And so when you're looking to connect with people who felt on that level,

[00:11:36] because if you, you may think, you know, but if you haven't been there, you don't really know. And, and, and I say that, and I know that anybody who listens to this, that's been there, they're nodding their head right now in agreement. Yeah. Wherever they are. Wherever they are. Yeah. Even, maybe even in Delaware, we can hope. Maybe in Delaware. Come on, Delaware. Delaware. By the way, not a bad memoir title, not yours. Wait a second. What may be in Delaware? I might want to open this book. Yeah.

[00:12:03] The only reason you have a title to get someone to open the damn book. Exactly. You want words in there too. And that's a whole other thing. I don't have anything to do with. Right. But anyway, we'll talk about your memoir title a bit later. I don't have it set yet, but there's gotta be something there. What is your work or what are your days like? Because of some legal stuff going on, I'm not going to name actual names, but I will say I, I used to work for a very large company. I had a really good job. Fancy job?

[00:12:33] Nope. Hardworking job. Blue collar guy? Blue collar. All the way. Massive company. What are you worried about getting sued if you say their name? I'm, I'm, I'm suing them. So that's why I don't want to mention. And, but I'll, I'll say that they're a big company that was crappy to work for, which is convenient because that's the same color as their uniforms. Hold on. Okay. So now we know.

[00:13:03] Is there's only one company really that most people are, and uniforms one crappy color too. And you got like one or two big competitors. Yep. Yeah. I think so every, and it's funny cause that's the same color shirt you're wearing right now. Just random. Yeah, I know. It is not that though. It is clearly not branding for their company. No. We don't need to say the words cause you're suing them and we don't want to say things. Yep. So, so I, I got hurt on Valentine's day, 2024. Okay.

[00:13:31] It was pretty bad, but I thought that I thought it was going to be, you know, a week or two recover, go back. Doctor's appointments led to doctor's appointments and so on. And, and in May, so from February to May, uh, in May I hit a wall and I crashed and I wound up in the hospital, the emergency room. I've, I've never been admitted to a mental ward, but so I went in, went to the doctor.

[00:14:00] Doctor got on antidepressants pretty much all summer struggled one, you know, couple hours of sleep here or there. Just, just beating myself up, had no purpose, nothing. Just going to the doctors, going to physical therapy, thought I needed surgery, but couldn't make any sort of traction with workman's comp and things like that. And so I was just spinning my wheels.

[00:14:24] I just fell apart and kept sliding darker, darker. And, and one, one evening I was just sitting, used to lock myself in the bathroom like all night long and just sit and doom scroll on my phone, smoke weed, not like actual, but like the vaporized weed, just not in the house. But I remember

[00:14:50] just out of nowhere, it coming to me like words. I could see it in front of me and it was just the realization that I'm like, Oh my God, I'm going to kill myself. Hmm. Now, hang on. At this point, you're separated from your first wife. Yeah. I'm, I'm with separated from my first wife. I've already been with my fiance for,

[00:15:14] we got together in 2021. Um, I guess one other paraphrase I should say little side note today is five years since my dad passed away. All right. So it's 2021 when your dad dies, you get, you get together with your wife or five years. You guys are fucking engaged. Get married already. Jesus Christ. Yeah. We've only been engaged about one. We just had the baby and, but anyway, we've been together for, but she's, but she, she's ready. Oh yeah. We're ready.

[00:15:40] Put a, put a, put a ring on it. Motherfucker. There is one. Oh, sweet. Congrats. Yeah. And, but like, here's the thing. And this is not me. This is not never me like trying to make people feel weird ever. It's just while, while you're feeling that way in the bathroom, doom scrolling, smoking, whatever. And those words come, you got two kids. Yeah. And they're sleeping. What's it, but what's it like to think about killing yourself knowing you have two kids? And I assume you care about them. Horrible. Right. It's, it's, it's awful. I, I struggle to this day. I'm, I'm happy,

[00:16:10] but, but I'll be honest like I do. And, and that's the hardest thing for me to come to terms with is my, my, my, my kids. And they're 99% of the reason that, that I'm still here as, is them. It's hard. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's horrible. And when I really think about it, it hurts deep, deep in my chest.

[00:16:36] I mean, yeah, I bet. Is your partner around now? If you don't, she's not, she is at work and all the, the, the older kids are at school. The younger one is at daycare. I'm supposed to be getting around today, which I have been most of the morning. This is what most people do the day before they go on a cruise. I take a 60 or 90 minute pit stop to talk about their suicide attempts. It's normal. Everyone does this. It's all right. So the words are flashing across your eyes. And

[00:17:05] what do you do with it? That particular evening, nothing. Now, I don't remember if that was two days, three days before. However, the day of the first attempt, I was anxious, sweaty, high anxiety. I could feel it like the stress, the muscles all through my head and my neck were tight all day.

[00:17:28] We were supposed to go to my in-laws for a cookout and to go swimming. And I don't remember what we argued about, but my fiance and I got into it really quick about something and they left without me. My ex called and I was already in a pipe mood, short temper. And so we got into it about something I don't remember. And I just remember saying, fuck it. I walked out to my garage, took a ratchet strap,

[00:17:57] got it around the rafters and I decided to smoke a bowl and just think about it for a minute. In the time that I did that, my fiance came pulling back into the driveway and stopped. And I broke down right there. We went to the emergency room, but I live in a rural area. It's taken a while to find good

[00:18:20] mental health care around here. I know of other people who've had similar experiences with the local health care system of you go in. And if you're not, I don't know, I would say if you're not speaking in tongues or something, I mean, I literally don't know what you would have to do for them to not just let you walk out of there as long, you know, as long as you don't say the right things,

[00:18:46] I'm assuming. Yeah. So a few hours later I was back home. And after, like I said, after that is when I found the podcast and looking back farther, I had ideations growing up. Right. And, and now being in therapy, I understand that I've had them. That's not normal. I just thought that everybody, when they had a bad day, thought that I could just go home and off myself. I know that it's not everybody, but I bet it's more than we think.

[00:19:14] Oh, it for sure has to be. Yeah. It has to be. There's no way it's not. Also, what's very interesting, and this has never come up on the podcast, smoking weed may have saved your life. Yeah. As much as I hate to say it, I've talked with my fiance about this and she's like, I got to my dad's. I just knew something wasn't right. I should also say my in-laws live like,

[00:19:43] they're our neighbors. We live in the country. So I don't know if you know what country neighbors are, but they're, you know, half a mile down the road, but they're neighbors. Right. So yeah, she's like, I just jumped in the car and came back home. And when I saw her pull in the driveway, I was standing on some scaffolding, like some construction scaffolding. It was close. Like, I guess earlier I kind of downplayed it. It's, it's tough. This is really the most in-depth I've

[00:20:09] ever talked about it. Even, even with my therapist, which I knew this was like, that's why I wanted to be here. What do you think it's like? And I'm sure she's shared this with you perhaps of like her coming and driving up and seeing it. She wasn't sure what was going on at first. She thought that I was just doing something in the top of the garage. Cause as she pulled in our driveway, I, you know, took the strap off from around my neck and was trying to get it

[00:20:36] undone, you know, frantic, like, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God. It didn't want to get caught because I figured if I, and that's, that's a fear that I had until just recently was being locked up, right. Being taken away to the loony bin, which is why I've never talked about it. You know, after that attempt is when I went to therapy for the first time, it opened a Pandora's box of dealing with things, things that people deal with in therapy. Right. But it, it started me down a dark

[00:21:05] path that led to my second attempt, which would have been in January, January 12th of 2025. That was a few months later. Yep. After the first attempt, you go to therapy and most importantly, you find this podcast. Let's just prioritize things. That's right. Right. I mean, I think I call the podcast first. Yeah, we're good. Right. And we could talk a lot more about that

[00:21:32] because that's what matters. Now you find therapy, uh, and then you try again. So I, I went to the ER for the first time in May, started seeing my doctor in June. That's when I started medication. Uh, so my first attempt was in August and then, so through the fall, you know, September, October, November, we started kicking up medication classes, right? So I would, I was going

[00:21:59] to my doctor monthly. My doctor's great. So I don't think she did anything wrong. I think she was trying to help, but we would. Which by the way is a really, really good quality for a doctor to have. Yes. I think if my doctor ever hears this, she's wonderful. I really do like my doctor a lot. I don't think that she did anything wrong. I think that she was really trying to help me. And

[00:22:25] eventually we got to where we are now, which I, I see a medication specialist now, but you know, she was trying everything. Did she or anyone else in that 2024 period of time diagnose you with anything you think is correct? Yes and no. I, I feel like they didn't want to throw a label on it until we got a lot more information. It took some more testing. Um, I do think that I have

[00:22:49] a correct diagnosis now, uh, which is ADHD and BPD. There's a lot of intricacies to a lot of different diagnosis out there. Right. But a lot of them overlap and that's what has been explained to me a number of times, which is why they were like, yeah, you're, you're more borderline. It's tough,

[00:23:08] which is, uh, when I finally got a, a stone cold diagnosis, it felt like a huge, huge weight off my chest because it made sense, right? Everything made sense. My entire life at that point was like, okay, I'm not all these things that I was programmed to believe. I'm not an idiot. I'm not

[00:23:35] useless. I'm not, I have, I have something wrong now. I know that that's the borderline personality disorder is not something you're born with. I know that I know that it comes from, you know, the environments and things that you're exposed to having ADHD helps, you know, progress that, but I don't blame anyone or anything for trauma I've experienced. There's people that, that did things to me

[00:24:05] that are close, you know, that were close to me. Not, not anything sexually. I was never assaulted violently. Uh, not, not taking care of the way somebody with somebody who is, uh, human neurotypical or neurodivergent. Sorry. Not someone who's neurodivergent. Yeah. And also I just feel bad now because I called a lot of people idiots. Then I'm realizing,

[00:24:32] well, most of them are probably just undiagnosed. So yeah, well, you know, now Sean's a complete asshole, but we knew that already. Take me to however you want. Lead me to, uh, yeah. January of 2025. Time had gone on after the first attempt at first I was very euphoric, uh, in, in like, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm, I made it like I'm, I'm let's get past this. I'm in therapy. I'm going to

[00:24:57] start getting better. I'm on this medication, but like I said, we were medication was 30 days of this and then let's try that. And then let's up this. And then, so by the time we got around to like December, I don't remember exactly now what, what I was on at that point, but I had about six months of four or five pills left in a jar and I was on sleeping medication, antidepressant, mode stabilizer,

[00:25:27] Chantex, which is a quit smoking pill. Um, and also on nothing narcotic, but I was on, uh, advanced ibuprofen for the injury that had happened, you know, and it'd been almost a year, uh, since I'd been injured at that point and was, I'm really, really hard on myself. My internal voice is, is really

[00:25:50] negative towards myself. I want to be happy every day, but I, a lot of days I wake up and I don't say this to be what was me. I mean, I just, this is my head. There's a lot of days that I wake up and I think how much is my brain going to tell me to end my life today? Like how, how am I going to have to fight that battle? It was a harder struggle in those times. I would get up in the morning. I

[00:26:18] would, when I say morning, I mean like four o'clock and go to bed at midnight and I'd wake up in between there somewhere and, and toss and turn. Like I just, and I was on, it was like generic ambient at that time. Like it was pretty good sleeping medication and it just was not helping dealing with that. And I would wake up, take my kids to school, come home, sit on the couch and just cry

[00:26:48] all day thinking just how big of a piece of shit I am, how I can't get my life together, which mind you, I'm sitting in a house that's got food. I'm getting paid. I'm hurt from work. I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm following, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do, but I can't help but feel my inner voice is just for lack of better terms, killing me, just beating me up all day long. So then I'd

[00:27:16] go pick my kids up from school, come home and just go back to my man cave and just lay on the couch that I had in there. So we get into January. I take my kids to school, but they're going to go home with their mom that night. I went to the store, could just remember thinking, what should we have for dinner tonight? And then I'm like, eh, it doesn't matter. I'm not going to be here for

[00:27:44] dinner. I was just driving home from the store, listening to my sad song playlist. I had, I do remember having a phone conversation with my fiance after I had dropped the kids off and it was, it, you know, it was in the morning school. It was eight o'clock, eight 30, nine o'clock in the morning. My fiance, you know, she can tell when something is, uh, when something's not up. Right. She, she knows me

[00:28:14] very well. And she was trying to cheer me up. She was doing her best. And I, I, when I am in that zone, when, and when it's black or white, right. Cause that's, that's how a borderline, that's how I am. It's either a hundred percent or it's zero. There's no middle ground. She's trying her best and it's not working. I'm blowing it off. And she asked what to get, you know, and I don't remember what I got. I want to say it was probably, if it was just the two of us, we were probably going to do

[00:28:45] mushroom Swiss burgers. Like, let's just be honest. Why wouldn't you do mushroom Swiss burgers? I love to cook. Yeah. I absolutely love to cook. And, and give me one of the songs on the sad playlist that you're playing as you're driving home. Sorry by Joyner Lucas was one of them. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. I don't know if you're familiar with that one or not. I just wanted, I like proper nouns. Okay. So, all right. So you're driving back, you know, you're not making it to the end of the night. This is the part

[00:29:09] that is, is sick in a way, but I also, it's what saved me. Um, that's why I'm here. I wanted to, my fiance's parents are split up. Sorry. Again, ADHD. There's a lot of times where she has gone for a few days at a time, but I wanted to do it on a day where I knew somebody was going to come home because I didn't want to, I don't know. I just, I didn't want to, I didn't want for someone to find

[00:29:37] me in a bad state. Right. You know, but I, I didn't, I didn't want to be saved necessarily. Right. I, I just didn't want to, didn't want somebody to find me if I'd been laying there for two, three, four days, if that makes sense. You know, I didn't want a family member to have that extra added onto it, I guess. So again, people pleaser, right. Can't do anything for myself.

[00:30:02] I got home, put some comfier clothes on, comfy sweatpants on, comfy sweatshirt on, turned on some music, uh, started listening to one of my favorite bands, Bad Owens. That's actually really all I remember about the music. And that's, I remember more stuff, but it's kind of splotchy because what I had started doing was I had in, in my man cave, I had an assortment of liquor and I

[00:30:31] just started down the line. I'd open a bottle, open a pill bottle, take a couple of the pills, swing it down, hit the dab marijuana pen a couple of times, take a few more pills, try a different whiskey, you know. Uh, and eventually the next thing that I remember was running from that room,

[00:30:56] falling down on my way to the bathroom, just vomiting just over and over and over and over again. There were four bottles that were empty. I don't know exactly how many pills were taken, but there were four bottles that were empty. There were no bottles that were empty. When I started, I drank a lot again, don't know how much, but a lot of the bottles were half to three quarters full. And most of them were less, they were either empty or less than half full. What had happened was my

[00:31:25] fiance had gotten home from work, came in, was excited, you know, obviously to see me, but she was kind of worried because I hadn't been answering my phone, but she knew that I was upset at this time. I had told her that I had had suicidal ideations, but she didn't know about the first attempt at this time. She doesn't know still to this day, unless, until she hears this, that that day that she found

[00:31:52] me in my man cave was an attempt. She got home. I was passed out. She tried to wake me up. I wasn't waking up. So she came into my man cave and shook me a couple of times and I woke up and I wasn't making any sense. But because I got up and took off running to the bathroom and was throwing up and

[00:32:15] everything, she just assumed that I was really drunk because I was on antidepressants. I was on mood stabilizers and sleeping medication. She didn't think that I tried to do anything to harm myself. She just thought that maybe I had a bad reaction with the medication. They knew that I was struggling, but nobody thought that I was suicidal. Nobody thought. I mean, like I, again, I'd kind of said,

[00:32:41] you know, I told people in passing, like, I'm really dark. And sometimes I go to a really dark place, but I don't think that I'd ever said, you know, that I, I was suicidal. Right. So they took me to the hospital in the hospital. They just were like, what'd you take? You know, how much did you take? I was out of it. I don't remember. You, you, you weren't speaking in tongues. So you're pretty good to go. Right. Right. You know, and, and I'm sure that they just thought I was drunk

[00:33:10] or, you know, on something just messed up. My vitals were okay. So they let me go. I was fucked up for like three days. Like I was able to get up and like function, you know, but like I would sit down and shit would start spinning. My body hurt. Oh, it was miserable. Like it was like being hung over

[00:33:33] for three or four days. It was horrible. I told my therapist about that. We talked, you know, started making a survival plan, started doing. When you say, when you say you talk to your therapist, your therapist knows that you've had one or two attempts. Yeah. Yeah. She's aware. I have a wonderful support group. I really do. That doesn't mean that I still don't have ideations all the fucking time. It's chronic almost.

[00:34:01] Did you have any today? No, not today. Uh, I, I, I did Sunday was actually a really, really rough day for me. I crash out sometimes really hard and I just, I can't avoid it. It just happens. I have a really strong fear of abandonment and I constantly think that I'm letting people down

[00:34:24] constantly. And so when I feel like I'm doing that, it just puts me in these dark holes. I don't have like a man, I'm getting dark. I'm getting dark. It's just like, Oh, you forgot to pick up the paperwork that you were supposed to pick up today. I'm fucking useless. Like that's where my mind goes. And I've pretty much, you know, I, I go to the doctor or, uh, and I'll fill

[00:34:51] out these forms and it says, you know, are you suicidal? Blah, blah, blah. And every time they're like, well, you said you're still suicidal. And I'm like, yeah, but listen, I'm in therapy. I'm talking to a psychiatrist. Like they are aware that I have these ideations. I know that if I'm in any real danger, I will reach out to help or there's, there's nothing going to stop it.

[00:35:16] Right. So I, you got through that all the way. I mean, I didn't have anything until November, December of last year, I had surgery in October. And with that surgery, I got a grocery list of medication. This is the surgery related to your injury? Correct. Don't they know, but don't they know that like people who are suicidal and like it's on the record, maybe don't give them a bunch of medications?

[00:35:45] You would think. And, and I, I asked them like, as I was getting ready for surgery and they started listing out, you know, will any of these interact with any of the medication that I'm on? And I was told no, and that wasn't the case, but I would have these ideations, Sean, and then they would be

[00:36:08] random. And because I had all this medication at my disposal and I was in more physical pain because of the surgery and the recovery than I had been even before the surgery. Right. I just, I would play games almost like Russian roulette every night. Let's try what two or three of these and one of these will do. And let's try what four or five of these. And I would fall asleep because I'd

[00:36:38] take all this medication like throughout the day, I'd just randomly take medication throughout the day and I would fall asleep on the couch and start like convulsing and, and things like that. I never admitted that they were suicide attempts, but they were, they, they 100% were. And I didn't stop until

[00:37:01] I started having some pretty scary chest problems. Like I was having some chest pains that were starting to scare me. I've just stopped playing Russian roulette with it. The holidays this past year came having three kids. Now I was put on some different medication that has been working mood stabilizer

[00:37:23] being treated for. It's funny. I know I've, I've heard so many of your guests say this when they were stopped being prescribed antidepressants and started being treated for the diagnosis that they had, whether it be with mood stabilizers or, you know, sleeping medication or, uh, ADHD medication, you know,

[00:37:49] whatever those types of medications might be, that seems to be when they have a more of a turnaround, right? As soon as you get away from the stuff that has 37 side effects, it seems like, you know, all medication has side effects. I under, you know, I understand that, but once you, I feel like once people start advocating for themselves, that has been the difference for me in not attempting in months now.

[00:38:18] Yeah. So what, what was the reason why you emailed me? Because I felt like I'm at a point now where I am comfortable in my own skin, not ashamed to admit the demons that I deal with. It's taken a long time. I think I've gotten to this point in therapy where I'm finally okay with myself. I'm not holding myself to a standard, a standard of comparison

[00:38:48] with anyone else. I, I don't have to compete with anyone. It's also learning to find my own happiness, right? And taking time for myself. Now, when I say that, that doesn't mean that I still don't fight these demons every single day, but I think with more intense therapy that I'm getting and,

[00:39:13] on the right medication, I think I'm, I'm turning to a better spot now that allowed me to be self-reflective and want to talk with you. From zero to 31 before you ever had your first attempt. Can you summarize your life in three minutes or less? So yeah, so grew up very normal middle class mom and dad at home for the most part. Dad did travel younger sister, older sister, but half sister musician, like loved music

[00:39:41] from an early age. My dad was a musician. So I found my passion really young in life, uh, and pursued that all through school. But when I got to fifth grade ish, I started really struggling in school. And so that's kind of when like the ADHD thing started happening also around the time my, I lost a cousin to suicide. Um, so that's kind of when things first started down that road, you know, dealing,

[00:40:11] knowing what that was overall, I was pretty happy, you know, had girlfriend, had the American dream, I guess, you know, rode dirt bikes, played music, was in a band, got to travel never like nationally, but played in the Midwest, played all over, got to play music with some of my heroes, genuinely happy,

[00:40:33] dealt with demons, but didn't face them more than just kind of like brushing them off. Just thinking that it was just something I had to deal with, get past, just move on. Eventually over time, that's what caught up to me and broke me was not dealing with those things. And then the damn

[00:40:56] burst almost lost everything, but not in a material standpoint, but from a, a mental standpoint, like, you know, it was a crash. So is that, are you a guitarist? I'm a drummer. I play a little bit of everything. Uh, but I am a drummer by trade. I guess you would say looking hard instrument, man, wow. I love it. I'm envious of that. It ain't too late, but it's not the same. So how many people know about your three attempts? Including medical professionals?

[00:41:24] Yeah, because you didn't tell a lot of people. Yourself? Uh, so no, my fiance, my doctor, my therapist, and my psychiatrist. Three medical professionals, one partner, and Sean. Yep. Nice. And now quite a few people. Well, there's some work to do before it gets released, but yes, but you know, you don't, you don't, you don't, you're probably never going to meet them or talk to them. Correct. Correct. How many people do you have? You said you have a great support

[00:41:50] system of that support system. How many people can you have a conversation in which you say, I'm thinking about ending my life and, and that's okay to talk about. I feel like that support system is growing currently at that moment, including the people that I've listed that know, I would say there's probably another three to four, five more that are, are good, solid support system that I can talk to you about this. That know that I have suicidal ideations,

[00:42:16] but don't know the details of my past attempts. Did you, if you told your ex-wife about it, would she be surprised? No, she would not be surprised. No. How old are your children? 14, seven and five months. All right. So the five month is, doesn't count the seven. And especially the 14, do they know anything about dad's struggles? They see them. They have lived through a lot

[00:42:44] over the last few years. They don't know the extent of things, but the emotional battles, the, the, the scars and the trauma that has been dug up through therapy and these types of things over the past couple of years, I, I haven't been the best father at times, best dad. I've, those demons have come out. Um, I'm going to make up for that. I hope as time goes on with them,

[00:43:13] but, uh, they don't know anything about my suicide ideations or attempts. Do you drink? Yes. Do you smoke? Yes. Do you do other drugs? No. I understand now because I'm an addict. I am an addict. I admit that. My dad was, my dad had a similar story to mine, uh, as far as he struggled with addiction to opiates

[00:43:37] bad. And I, I used to, until this injury, I, if I would fight taking an ibuprofen for a headache, like I, I just, cause I grew up in that environment. The fact that I went down that road, you want to talk about sitting up and beating yourself up at nights, like, you know, for going down a road that you watch somebody struggle and go down and then to find yourself, find myself in that same position was tough. Yeah.

[00:44:07] Is tough is tough because now I know, right. I was always scared that I might have a tendency to want to flirt with medication, to flirt with, with that type of thing. And then when I was given the opportunity as in, I didn't have to go out and search for it. I was signed a script. Here you go. If your dad's not an addict, you could have easily become addicted to opiates and be dead. 100%.

[00:44:33] Isn't that fascinating? Because is that what opiates do do? And you were in it, you did have a serious injury and it does help you feel better. And then you are addicted. We know how that story typically ends. Yeah. It's very easy to understand now the danger and, and, and the epidemic that, that has become worldwide because it's very easy to be on those medications to take pills and still be

[00:45:01] high functioning. I was not in the sense of, I was laid up for the, for most of that time, right? Like I was on crutches and things. So I numbed the pain, but I numb the pain out of boredom and out of feeling miserable about myself. But I just slept that, you know, I didn't, I wasn't out interacting in society or anything at that time. Other than drums, what helps you feel better?

[00:45:27] Thinking about what possibilities I could achieve not to get into too much detail, but I've had a lot of positive, I've had a lot of positive things happen too in my life recently, along with the negatives and, and those positives are what I need looking forward in my life to, to be happy

[00:45:52] someday, to continue to grow in life. Cause I think that's what we all want to do. I think I finally found that niche. And so that makes me feel better. But you don't want to talk about it. You don't want to jinx it. Correct. That whole lawsuit type thing. I can't say, say too much about it. If in one year we had like an update episode, what might be different in your life? Hopefully this whiteboard full of ideas back here will come to fruition. Okay. I can't read

[00:46:20] them, but I absolutely right. That's good. I want to, I want to be an entrepreneur. Let's just put it that way. Goals are good, baby. Goals are good. Um, three questions. Here we go. Uh, myths, misconceptions around any of this stuff, particularly things that one haven't come up already into that really piss you off. Misconceptions is that people don't care if you're suicidal, as in if you're suicidal, you don't care about your family or you're selfish. That's not the

[00:46:47] case, at least not in my case. And I don't feel like that's the case in most people, um, that are, that are suicidal or that attempt suicide, especially from listening to your podcast. Uh, and that pisses me off. It also pisses me off that we preach mental health and we preach taking care of

[00:47:09] yourself yet the mental health system, the mental health care in this country, uh, is, is laughable in a lot of places so much. So, I mean, I'm, I'm scared. I'll be honest. I'm scared to be admitted. I'm scared to like fully snap. Right. And to the point of where like somebody might have to make a decision. Now I live in Michigan. I know that we don't have a lot of laws like some other states do

[00:47:38] as far as like, you know, there's other states. I like where you like you automatically have to go in for 48 hours. Right. Exactly. Yep. Yep. So, you know, I'm, I'm thankful for that, but that pisses me off. Ditto. You a sports fan? Huge sports fan. All right, let's talk real quick. And then we're going to get to memoir on pink and purple pill. Yep. Um, I just want to share a few things about the Detroit scene, Detroit, Michigan, even Midwest one love that Indiana won the national. I don't

[00:48:04] care what you think. I love it. Love it. I'm a huge Michigan fan, but, but yeah, love the Indiana story too. Surprising how good Michigan basketball is this year? Uh, you're telling me, you're telling me besides Ohio state, I'm a big 10 Homer, you know, all through and through not a big sec guy. I love college football. Love that you're talking college football. I don't know. I mean, that's my sport. I'm a university. I'm the one with the University of Florida. Really?

[00:48:31] Yeah. I was, I mean, it's before Tebow, but you know, like, so, you know, I've had my share of some, some good moments, big games, national championships in basketball as well. Now let's talk, let's talk pro sports and then we got to get back to suicide. And there's one thing that just fucking pisses me off and I'm going to tell you what it is, but I'm going to say last number one, the Pistons are good, but they're not good enough. Number two, the Tigers are a better team than I thought they would be last year. And I think they might have a dip. They're notorious for that.

[00:49:00] And I feel like the front office is the issue has been the issue with most Detroit teams for a long time. Right. This is where most people stop listening to this podcast episode. Yeah, it's all right. No, no, no. How far are you from Detroit? About three hours. I'm, I'm, I'm more towards, I'm in between, uh, Lansing and Grand Rapids. Well, I had two, two, a standard national tour events. One was in Ferndale and one was in Muskegon. I'm about an hour ish from Muskegon.

[00:49:28] So you're like a Michigan state guy. You're a Michigan state guy then. No, go blue. You have them all the way. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Um, the last thing that pisses me off is that I have for so long wanted the Detroit lines to be in the fucking Superbowl. Yeah. You're telling me. And they had a, like more two years ago than last year, that golden opportunity. And if the other team happens to be Buffalo and I'm just, I can't wait for that match. Yeah. And they just keep either not coming close or honestly, I, I'm going to go on the record and saying there's a conspiracy against

[00:49:58] the Buffalo bills. Oh, they have been screwed so badly in either divisional or conference championship games with ridiculous calls. Yep. And tight games. Then you're like, they do not want this team in the fucking Superbowl. Nope. Nope. And we had it perfect a year ago, lined up, ready to go. You had all the lions had to do was beat the 49ers and then Buffalo had to beat Kansas

[00:50:25] city and nope. That was the Superbowl. Everybody wanted Detroit and Buffalo last two simple. We've got these fucking duds. All right, here we go. Uh, I do, we have ideas for memoir titles. Don't tell me you haven't thought about it when the music stops. Oh, you're a musician or, or when the beat stops, maybe when the rhythm stops, nothing with drums specifically when the music stops, when the beat stops. Yeah. You know, something like that. I, you know, I write a lot of music, but I'm not good

[00:50:53] with album or memoir titles. I mean, I'm brilliant at it, but in this case, I'm going to stop with something around when the beat stops, when the music stops, when the, what do we got? We got snare drums. We got, I'm trying to get very specific. All right. It's okay. Kick drum, kick drum. It'll happen. I have faith in you. Hey, thank you. The pink and purple pill. If you're listening to this and you don't know what it is and you're not a first timer, shame on you. Uh,

[00:51:20] but if you are a first timer, the pink and purple pill is not real, but it is a pill that if someone takes it, ingests it, they go to sleep. There's zero pain. They do not wake up and no one knows. It's a suicide. It is arguably the greatest question ever asked. I think I came up with it myself, Zach. Uh, I'm going to ask you what you would do with it right now on February 24th, early afternoon. Nobody knows. Well, you can change that. You can change a component. If that changes your answer. Some people want people to know. And so it's like, Oh, okay, well we can go in that

[00:51:50] direction. I I've thought long and hard about that, you know, and I've been thinking about it all day, honestly, since I, since I woke up this morning and I have to say that, that my answer is going to be like a lot of people and I'm going to not take it today, but I'm going to ask, can I take it with me? Because on the cruise, not on the cruise, just, just, well, maybe on the cruise. I don't know.

[00:52:16] If you're asking if there's an expiration date, the current form of the pill does not have an expiration date. And, and the reason I say that is because I've also kind of come to terms in the last couple of years that I think, um, I think that unless there's an accident, I think that someday I'll probably end my life, whether I'm, you know, 90 years old or, or what age. And I say that,

[00:52:41] like I said, I say that clear headed, not, not because I'm upset right now. Right. Not because I'm sad. That's just, I think I like the idea of having, I think I'm going to want the choice, right? I definitely know that I don't want to fade away in a hospital bed somewhere. I know that. Is there something about this podcast, something the way I do it, a question I could ask that you want

[00:53:05] to see changed, added, modified, taken out. My, my, my feelings won't be hurt, don't I? No, except for, and, and I think you kind of asked this in a roundabout way, but is like you said, it's why, but more of, do you, do you regret it? And so maybe that's why I think that is because you didn't ask it. And well, you got to answer it now. And with the quote, with when we said, do you regret it?

[00:53:30] What's the it? Do I regret attempting to take my life? No, I don't. Because I think that there's part of the growth that I've experienced. It's part of my story. I was not in a good space a few times in my life, not in a good space enough that I didn't feel like anybody could help me. Right. Isn't it so weird with the pink and purple pill though, that if you had,

[00:53:59] if you had access to it, then we know we're not talking and your kids don't have a dad, your fiance doesn't have a future husband and there's certainly no fucking cruise. Well, maybe she would have gone on the cruise without your husband. Oh, she'd be on the cruise. Who's going to the Bahamas? There's a whole group of us. So her, her dad owns a business. And so this is the Christmas gift to his employees. Oh, so it's a big group. Oh God. It's going to be like,

[00:54:29] it's going to be, yeah. Shuffleboard and pool and fucking cheesy drinks, but it's fun. It is like 14 degrees with 40 mile an hour winds here. Enjoy. I mean, right now where I am, it's like 70. So I'm not like, go do your thing. I don't care if it's on a boat or not. Is it? And so when you go to the Bahamas, you get spend the day to there or how does that work?

[00:54:55] Yeah. So it's, it's, it's a four day where we leave on Thursday. We come back on Sunday. I think we stop. Are you flying to like Miami or something? Yeah. Yeah. We're flying to Miami. So we leave tomorrow. We fly out tomorrow, but the cruise isn't until Thursday. Yeah. I think we stop at two places, two ports. I'm actually really looking forward to it because like I said earlier, I haven't done like anything

[00:55:19] for this, which is totally out of the norm for me. Cause I'm usually that person that has to have my fricking hands and everything. Otherwise I don't like, like, I don't like riding in a car with people, you know, but that's because I drive so damn much. I drive when I'm, when I'm in a car, I'm driving. Yeah. I'm pretty hands off on this. This is like the first time since I was a child that I'm going on vacation. This is good practice for you.

[00:55:49] Yeah. I think it'll be good for, for me. 2026 is I have, everybody has those outlooks, right? Like, Oh, it's going to be my year, but. No, they don't Zach. Some, most people do though. Some, some people actually are planning their deaths right now, but it's the, it's the minority. That is, you know what, Sean, you, you're, you read my mind. Well, when I hear people say things and it's like, it's, well, you're just not right. I have to correct them. I, um, I would, I would, I know you have some goals. I can't see them. They're behind you. I do hope they come true for

[00:56:17] you. Um, or at least in part, uh, we also know that sometimes reaching your goals doesn't necessarily magically make everything amazing, but it's fucking probably better than not. But even though it is one big picture, I now look at it. I'm able to break things down. Right. So, so none of them says there's nothing that is like find Jesus. Exactly. No, no, nothing like that. Nothing crazy like that. By the way, he's not in the Bahamas. Not that that's not crazy. So, you know,

[00:56:45] if you are looking for him, by the way, I'm guessing he's not in the Bahamas or Delaware, but I don't, what do I know? What do I know? No, I'd be up in Michigan, maybe in the UP. Anything else you want to talk about or share with me, Zach? You're giving people like myself a chance to feel comfortable, right? I don't know. I don't know you. We're, we're, we may never speak again after this. Maybe. However, I have felt

[00:57:12] like you were a friend. You were a friendly, right? You made me feel comfortable. So a lot of people you're, you're making happy do this and I'm not just blowing smoke, man. Oh, I know. Because I've almost emailed you for a long time. You think this, when this comes out, you'll listen? I do. Yeah. I'm one of those people that I'm not afraid of the sound of my own voice. So. No, you got, and do you think your fiance will listen? Yeah, I don't know. I think she might listen to a little bit of it.

[00:57:41] Think about therapists or other people? Because like I said, again, I'm not ashamed of this. I'm not ashamed of, I don't need to be anonymous. I don't have anybody I have to worry about hearing or, you know what I mean? If I'm open now to talking with people. So, so I, I will share this right when the time comes. Do you think that, when do you find out what happened? This is probably going to be years because I know you said you are in litigation. Is that, how many years is that going to take? Hopefully not too much longer. We, we, we.

[00:58:09] They don't, they don't tend to rush these things, do they? No, they don't. But, uh, recent findings seem to be pointing up. So. Good. Yep. I have a feeling that those findings might be connected to some of those red letters behind you. Yep. That's awesome. Hey, listen, have a great time on your cruise. Thank you very much. Don't, uh, get too close to the railing in choppy waters. Basic advice. Okay. I mean, unless that's what you want to do, but at this point, I don't think it is.

[00:58:38] Hopefully not while I'm there either. Uh, I hope someday there's no exact date. We can do an update episode. Um, if I'm still doing this fucking thing and I'm still alive myself, but, um, you know, who the fuck knows? And it's been, it's, I've enjoyed the conversation, bro. I really appreciate it. You know, you're a good guy. You're an honest guy. And, uh, and, uh, I hope the rest of your days is decent, man. You have a great one as well, Sean. Thank you so much for the time. I appreciate it. Um, be good, Zach. Take care. Bye-bye.

[00:59:08] As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support. Special thanks to Zach in Michigan. Thanks, Zach. If you are a suicide attempt survivor or ideator and you'd like to talk, please reach out. I'd love to speak with you, talk with you, connect, learn more. Hello at suicidenoted.com. And that is all for this week's episode. Stay strong. Do the best you can. I'll talk to you soon. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.