Survivor Update #2: Danny & Steven

[00:00:00] It's always kind of just with you. Even if I'm not actively thinking about it, there's some passive ideation or like, wow, like there's almost like a comforting like old friend that you don't talk to anymore, but you know that they're around somewhere.

[00:00:36] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives. We almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough. And when we do talk about it, many of us, we are not very good at it.

[00:00:55] So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors in large part to help more people in more places hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone. Now, if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you would like to talk, please reach out. Hello at SuicideNoted.com. Now, you might have noticed we have a new logo. That is just a logo for this episode. It is not necessarily permanent.

[00:01:19] In the next few weeks, perhaps couple of months, I will have new logos, different logos each episode. I will ask you which one you like the best and the one that gets the most votes will win. And if you'd like to help us design a logo or have some ideas, let me know. Shoot me an email. I might end up using yours. We will have a new logo soon enough. Change is good.

[00:01:42] You can check the show notes to learn more about this podcast, including our membership, as well as the Noted Network, where we help people create their own podcasts. Kind of like this one, though, which doesn't need to be around suicide. We also help people craft personal stories, particularly around suicide, so they can be featured on all kinds of podcasts, including this one and private audio projects. So check all of that out if you want. It's there in the show notes, among other things.

[00:02:11] I want to thank Brian, who contributed to this podcast, a financial contribution. So thank you, sir. And finally, we are talking about suicide on this podcast, and we don't typically hold back. So please take that into account before you listen or as you listen. But I do hope you listen because there's so much to learn. Today, I am talking with both Danny in New Mexico and Steven in Illinois. If those names or places sound familiar, well, this isn't Survivor Update number two.

[00:02:41] And again, like our first update, I actually had this conversation with them a couple of years back. It took me a long time to release it. I know. I'm going to get better about all of that. I promise. I spoke with both of them in the earlier days of this podcast, reconnected with them more than a year later. You will first hear a conversation with me and Danny and then me and Steven. And of course, they are both suicide attempt survivors. Hey, Danny. Hello.

[00:03:09] You're in New Mexico, I recall. What part? Southeastern New Mexico. I'm out of Carlsbad or a small town nearby. Still alive. Yes. Last time I checked, I am in fact still alive. Thanks again for talking with me. How did that come to be? Well, I know that some of the most helpful things when I'm dealing with stuff is knowing that I'm not alone.

[00:03:32] And knowing that even though my situation or my life or whatever's going on is unique, very specific to me, there's at least some aspects that you share, at least the feelings and stuff with other people. And I think having that sense of community is something that's helped me tremendously. So if that's something I could extend to other people, then that would make not like a good thing out of a bad thing necessarily,

[00:03:59] but it would at least give something to the shittiness of it all. The shittiness of it all. New tagline. That's a new tagline. Are you driving? Yes. Is it safe? Yes. I have got you on hands-free whatnots. Did you listen to your episode? I did. I listened to bits and pieces more recently after we were talking about, wow, we don't even know what we are, you know, listening to our own stuff or whatever.

[00:04:31] Oh, you did ultimately listen to it in its entirety at some point after we talked and it came out. Yes. What's that like? It was a little weird. I've been on a podcast many, many moons ago. So it wasn't as weird from the perspective of like hearing your own voice or being in this context. But it was kind of weird because it felt almost disconnected.

[00:04:59] Like this person talking is not me. This is a guest on a show, on a podcast that I listened to. And it kind of separated it. Were you driving when we talked the first time? I wasn't driving the first time, but I was in my vehicle the first time. You were? Yep. Yep. A lot of people are in their vehicles. Not a lot, but a good number. This isn't a loaded question, right? I don't want you to ever feel weird, but do you actually listen to the podcast ever? Like not yours, just in general.

[00:05:29] I do. And I actually listen to it more now than I did before, but it's kind of weird. I've got a weird thing. Darker content or like anything in the realm, like doesn't really bother me, but I do have to take this podcast kind of in small bites. And I don't know if it's just especially close to home or something, but I'll listen to like a single episode here and there. Whereas most of my podcasts would see people.

[00:05:55] You know what I've been thinking about? Now we don't have to have an extended conversation about this here, but I was at the pool the other day, which I'm not going to get into because it's just a bald guy sitting at a pool. Just you don't want that visual. Trust me. I was trying to think of if, if one can justify abortion and I'm not judging either way, right? Just if one can justify abortion, I was trying to make the arguments of how you can't not justify suicide.

[00:06:25] Yeah. And I went through all the possible like reasons why people say like, no, but, and I kind of have a good response. Not like I'm not going to actually debate anybody. I don't think about this, but I was like, no, no, no. If you're saying X, then what, you know, back and forth as one does when they're thinking about these things, I suppose. Yeah. I was like, yeah, I think I want to, I just want to explore that a little more. I think that's interesting. And I don't know that I heard those two, like you said, they're two very charged things.

[00:06:50] I don't know if I heard those in a context together. So I think it deserves talked about. I chew on that. Yeah. I'm just chewing. I'm not doing more than chewing myself. Right. It's one of my favorite hobbies. So I get it. Yeah. I'll definitely have to chew on that. Like beyond this, that's probably going to be one that I'm going to continue thinking about. I have mixed feelings about like when people bring legality into things like suicide and stuff like that.

[00:07:16] You know what I mean? Like, obviously we have a cultural and societal expectation that you don't want people to do that. You don't want people killing themselves and being someone who has loved ones. I get it. I don't want anyone that I love to analyze themselves. I don't think about the law at all because laws change. Yeah. Arguments are never going to be based on the law. The idea of why laws exist in the first place is worth considering. There's a lot of things we don't allow.

[00:07:45] Now we make a choice that like wearing a seatbelt, we are going to enforce this. I could easily say that's absurd. You're obstructing my rights. Someone else could say no. The fact that we don't want something to happen for me is not a valid argument. Right. Right. I'm not trying to be a dick because I'm not pushing back against you if you feel that way. But no, I want more. I need you to dig. Not you. I need one to dig more to tell me really why. Yeah. Why would you make it illegal? Not that it's actually not illegal. So that's a whole other part of the argument.

[00:08:15] Right. Kind of a gray area. That actually just killed my whole thesis, realizing it's not illegal. At least here. I think from my understanding now, I'm obviously not a lie expert or anything of my own country, let alone others. But there's other places where it is illegal. And if you don't, if you're not successful, then you have legal ramifications that you now have to live. Yeah, that's going to help shit out.

[00:08:42] Oh, man. Imagine like already having to navigate this grief. That's a nice cherry on top for a shitty year to go. Right. You used the word dark before. Do you think that these conversations on here are dark? Typically, the ones you hear?

[00:08:57] Yeah. You know, like saying like dark content or something, I guess like more mean stuff. You're not going to people aren't just casually listening to together as a group. Like the stuff that people get uncomfortable about. Uncomfortable topics, I guess is a better way to put it.

[00:09:15] But I think some of the stories on here, they could be uncomfortable just if it's close to home or even if it's not going to be uncomfortable on this day, but a different day, it just hits different because of the headspace you're in, maybe.

[00:09:28] Yeah. And that's something that's my responsibility to be like, you know, today, that's not my podcast. Today is some other who knows what. And then different days, you know what, this is really what I need right now. And this is going to, this is going to be enriching for me right now. And I feel better or what have you, you know?

[00:09:45] Now, this is a rather broad question. How has your life, if at all, other than time passing, changed since we first spoke back in, I believe, March of 2021? It's changed in some ways pretty big and in some ways maybe not at all. And it feels very much the same. I'm still living where I was living previously with my husband. At the time that we first spoke, I was going to school to be licensed.

[00:10:15] Since clinical social worker so that I could work as a therapist. Unfortunately, funds ran out before I finished. My scholarships, different things like that ran out and I couldn't afford it next semester. Unfortunately, I put a lot of money hoping to go back in a different way later or figure something out. I don't know. That door kind of closed for a minute and that's okay. I feel like today anyways, at the time I was really distraught, but it's okay.

[00:10:43] I think last time we spoke, I was still working at the same place I am now, but in a different capacity. I've had a couple promotions since then. And the most recent was to operation supervisor.

[00:10:56] So I'm a lot busier, but doing things that are more, I guess, like engaging and stimulating instead of just kind of monotony grind work, creative problem solving and different outlets that kind of keep my mind more busy, which proves good for me.

[00:11:14] So over the past year or so, I've had a lot of health stuff going on. And, you know, like we talked previously, I've been navigating mental health things for off and on throughout my life to varying degrees. But we had a stint where I was out of work for a few months because I was ill and they couldn't figure out what was going on. Saw this specialist, saw that specialist, emptied my savings account.

[00:11:41] So we're still navigating that, but we're navigating it at least with answers and some things that help, you know, I'm obviously back to work and stuff. So quality of life has improved some, but it was a little rocky there for a little bit. We're still navigating some of those diagnoses and things like that. Did you have an attempt since we last talked? I'm not. So when was your last one? There's more than one, if I recall.

[00:12:06] Yes. So I believe the last one would be the one that I detailed in that episode. And it was several years ago now, back when I was living in the apartment with my then fiance. Now husband. In the time we talked, do you ideate with any frequency or really at all? Yeah, I do. And that's a good question because, and I think I've heard you talk about it with people a few different episodes,

[00:12:33] but like kind of passive ideation versus intensity. It's almost like this undercurrent that's always there, but just different degrees or like severity, even when I'm doing really well. And I have no, like, there's no dicker whatsoever to myself or others. You know, I'm even laughing, having a good time. Almost like this quiet, like subtle, just undercurrent. It's always kind of just with you, I guess.

[00:13:03] And even if I'm not actually thinking about it, there's some passive ideation or like, wow. Like there's almost like a comforting, like old friend that you don't talk to. Did you tell anybody that back in the day that you spoke to me on the podcast or let them know about your episode? Did you like spread the word? I'm not saying this because you need to spread the word about the podcast. I'm just curious if you shared it with people or you're like, nah, you know what? Nah.

[00:13:33] I did tell my inner circle support group about it and that I did this thing and I was like, I felt good about it. Told them a little bit how it went, but I don't think that off the top of my head, I don't share the episode. I think I've shared the podcast like in a general way, very vague. And I think I've even shared it, but not told the person that I was on it whatsoever and just hope that that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of episodes now.

[00:14:02] They're probably not going to get to yours. Yeah. Yeah. At some point I started asking this question. I may have asked you at the time, do you think you'll try again or some version of that question? I think we did touch on it a little bit, but here I am a year later. I think there's always the possibility.

[00:14:24] I don't ever want to think that I'm to some healthy and whole point in my life that I am beyond the possibility, I guess. I don't want to get in my own way of recognizing, I guess, maybe warning signs or something or like any kind of red flags or giving myself those check-ins. So I think that there's always the possibility, but I think that it is a lot less likely. It would be a lot more recognizable before I got to that point, maybe.

[00:14:53] Could go about it differently. Absolutely. I'm gauging. I guess for most people, they don't think about this stuff a lot, maybe less than I do just because I have this podcast. You're just busy living your life. Maybe a bit of a weird question, but in the time since we spoke, have your ideas about anything related to suicide shifted? Yeah, actually, I think so.

[00:15:14] And I think some of it comes from, is a little sparked by some of the conversations we did have, a certain aspect that I do remember, combined with some of my experiences since then with other mental health professionals. And I mean, colleagues and a lot of the classes that I got to take and general life experience, I guess. When we spoke last time, I was very much an advocate for if you need help, reach out and get it.

[00:15:43] And if you need to go to the hospital, because I've been forced into an inpatient facility, and I was very much an advocate for if you need to go to the hospital, that's a great solution, go do it. Now, I still believe that to a degree, but I think it is a lot more complicated than I think I had thought about at the time. Because I've got a lot of thoughts about how our system treats like mental illness and mental health and behavioral health.

[00:16:11] And it's very heavily crisis intervention, super extreme. But anything before that, there's not a lot, there's not a lot you can do. Or there is and it's not accessible, or it is and it's not affordable. So I think I guess my perspectives on what kind of intervention or what kind of help is available versus what is needed is kind of where I think my perspective has grown the most.

[00:16:41] Interesting. So some people would say, my perspective has changed and now I want people to get help. But you're saying, no, I've been made aware even more so. Maybe not so fast. Let's keep things real here. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like, of course, like, I still think hospitals and things like that serve a purpose.

[00:17:01] But I don't think it is as widespread as it is often implied or like how people try to get across like, oh, that's a great solution. You're going to go do that and you're going to be totally fine. It's all fixed. I mean, I went four times. Obviously, if that was the case, I wouldn't need to go the other three. I wonder if in the history of the world, anybody's gone into a hospital and then they came out and everything was all fixed. I don't know who's spreading that shit, but that's absurd. Yeah.

[00:17:31] I'd like to talk to that person and see how that went for them. Yeah. I'm also under the belief that everyone at any given time is doing their best with what they have and what they know. You know, I don't want to disregard the perspective I had at the time, but looking back, it almost feels as if such narrow minded coming from a place of not being as informed or not encountering as many different people's stories for one or people I've met in and out of different projects I've been involved with.

[00:17:59] I mean, you could also extend that same everyone's doing the best with what they know or have to people who make policy around our mental health system and hospital staff and all. They're doing the best they can, too. That's why this gets really complicated in like. Yeah. Anything else you want to share about updated related stuff?

[00:18:17] I think I might give it kind of a refresh update because I think last time I talked a little bit about like if you're feeling that way, you know, reach out. But given, you know, what we just discussed and stuff, I think something I would say would be just keep an eye on your loved ones and be cognizant of other people and knowing that everyone is doing the best they can with what they have and what they know at the time.

[00:18:47] I guess I'm doing my best. So that's my update. Now, is there a reason you live in that part of what sounds like a rather I almost feel like there's tumbleweed everywhere. Yes, there are tumbleweeds everywhere. I became good buddies with somebody who thought tumbleweed. They were from somewhere further east and they absolutely thought tumbleweeds were just a cartoon trope. And I had to explain to them that sometimes when it's especially windy, it's actually a road hazard. I live over here.

[00:19:17] I mean, I was born and raised here. So this is my community and my culture. And it's just kind of where I've got some roots going on. That makes sense. Roots. I rarely ask this question, but I'm going to ask you. And it's not a Sean style question, but because some people have asked me to ask this question, the question I'm going to finally ask is, do you, Danny, have any questions for me? Okay. Dope. Into it. Okay.

[00:19:44] So I do have a question and it's a little less about like super intimate personal details or anything, but it's more about like what you do with this project and stuff. Since you started doing the podcast. Right. How do you feel like, you know, that day in, day out, I don't know what your, you know, routine looks like in regards to the project and stuff like that. But how do you feel like it's affected your life since you started maybe like day one to now? I love loaded questions.

[00:20:14] I know it's a loaded question. Right. Like, you know, I can't say my life has gotten much worse. It's not going to work. It's nice to do something that I feel is important and to be frankly, the person who just started it as opposed to someone asking me to come on board and help, which would be cool too. But like the fact that I started it gives me a sort of nice sense of, I suppose, accomplishment, if that's the right word. And has that changed some? Yeah.

[00:20:39] I mean, as we've had more listeners and more guests and even more feedback, you know, you read a review or someone messages you or emails, you know, some of it's like, I like, wow, I had no idea that it was making that kind of change, you know, effect. It was affecting someone that way. So yeah. But does that stay with me? No, not really. It's more of like for a few moments, like nice, you know, cool. Stays with me, but does it radically change my day to day? No, it's good to do.

[00:21:08] You know, this is more, much of a more of a broad way to answer it. It's always cool to do something you feel is not only important, but is helping people out. You think it's good to do something that you think is you're good at. It just feels good. And that you feel like you almost enjoy, which is probably weird for people to hear. Like, oh, you're talking to people about their attempts and you're talking about this subject. You enjoy it. And that's like, I kind of do not a weird. It's not the same as like dancing joy.

[00:21:39] Sorry. Right. It's a little different than that, but you kind of do. I love it. I think we should do more things that bring us joy, even if it's not in a traditional or exactly like joy. Like in that, like you said, dancing and stuff. Right. I always, even whether, whether it's around someone's suicide attempt or not, I just like having conversations about certain things. Like not, I don't consider them dark. They're more like, to me, stuff that matters.

[00:22:06] I'm not great with extended quote unquote small talk. Like I can do it. Yeah. Yeah. Boring. This is why dating is so boring for me with most people. I'm like, literally within about nine seconds, I'm like, I'm so bored. I can't do this. Please stop. Please stop. But when you meet somebody who can engage in that way, wants to engage in that way, it's really refreshing.

[00:22:36] Yeah. I think that's true. So I should have asked you what your favorite color is, is another question. It used to be, it used to be yellow, but I think I've moved off of that. That was just the first question I could think of that I would equate to small talk. And yeah, you're right. 2022. I don't think it's a thing. Right. Like there's a reason why people have small talk. I'm not saying there's no value in it at all, but yeah. And just to add to that, instead of what you said in the original question, it's cool to learn stuff.

[00:23:04] You know, you learn a lot when you listen and you just have conversations, you know, you learn about people and you learn about this thing. And sure, over time, you sort of see common threads or patterns, but every person's still got kind of their own thing going on. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of fascinating. And to be able to be at least one person to create a space for someone to share like that. And by the way, for some people, that's all they have. So that's kind of like a, that's a gift.

[00:23:33] Not that I'm giving that. I almost are receiving a gift to be able to offer that kind of space. So I kind of enter it with like, treat it with some, what's the word, you know, it's, it's an important thing. Yeah.

[00:23:46] I just think it's really special to have this space like carved out, whether it's on the internet for some people or just on their listening app or offline or in your like day to day life or whatever it is, that space that's carved out where the dialogue is just open. I wish that we had more of those spaces for all things, not just suicide stuff. Agreed. Agreed. Are you wearing your seatbelt? I am. Okay. All right. Well, this was fun. Thank you. Absolutely. Thank you.

[00:24:16] All right. Drive safe. Thanks again. All right. Thanks, man. Have a good one. Talk to you soon. Bye. Steven, you just re-listened to your episode. Yeah. And I forgot it that fast. All the dull details of it. You listened to it the first time? I just now listen to it today. Why? I'm curious. I guess I knew what I said. So did you tell anybody about it? Yeah, I did. I think it's one of those deals where most of the people I told already knew the story.

[00:24:46] So my wife just said my mom listened to it. Is your wife there right now? Yes, she is. Hello, wife. Brenda. Brenda. Steven said very nice things about you when we first talked last year. Yeah. But he edited all that out of the show. I edited all the good stuff out about Brenda. Nice, lovely couple in Illinois. Nice to see you. We're doing an update here on Steven's Life. You're still alive, number one. Yes, I am.

[00:25:16] When I got off the call with you a year ago, do you remember, was there any doubt about you being alive a year from that call? Yeah, there wasn't much doubt about it. We ended with you were asking, you think this would come back? And I was like, there's never a 100% guarantee that something won't happen that'll trigger and send you rolling downhill. But I said I had a lot of safety measures in place, thought that I would use those and that would keep me safe. And have they?

[00:25:46] I haven't really needed to use them, which is a good thing. Life's still life. It's frustrating. We still can't seem to turn that financial corner. We think we're there. And then, you know, there's a cup we used to have, coffee cup that said, every time I make men's ends meet, someone moves the ends. And that's like, yeah, that's my whole life. What's the biggest thing that's changed, if anything, in your life in the past year or year plus? Not a whole lot has changed. I did recently change jobs.

[00:26:14] I was at the front desk. I liked what I was doing, but I didn't like where I was. I didn't like being out front there. As time went on, more and more things came down the line for me to move over to what's called the quality assurance department. So now I do that. I go through and make sure that the people in the autism clinics, they have so much supervision

[00:26:44] that they're required to have. So I kind of keep track of that if they're actually getting it or not. And I'm not sure if I like this part or don't like this part, but I go into classrooms. I go into houses. We make sure there's no unsafe things laying around for the kids to get into. We make sure that the place isn't falling apart. If there's anything we notice that needs fixed, we report it to the maintenance guys. I'm liking it overall a lot better than being up front.

[00:27:11] I had a nice extended family in my church, so to speak. But yet I didn't feel comfortable in that environment telling them, basically, I thought they would hear, God isn't enough. I still want to kill myself even though I believe in God and Jesus. And they have the message of, He's enough. He will sustain you through life and all that. And I was like, yeah, I know that in my head, but it doesn't seem to be working.

[00:27:40] The last interaction I had, and this is in my podcast, I was hiding, basically. I was going through the motions, basically already made up my mind that I'm going to kill myself the next day, kind of just avoiding people, waiting for Brenda to get my wife to get done so we could go home so I could drive off to nowhere and kill myself the next day. And this guy just randomly happens to pop into this room that I'm hiding in.

[00:28:08] And he goes, hey, have you seen my kids? How you doing? Have you seen my kids? And I forgot about his kids. And I said, I am not good, not good at all. And he says, oh, it'll get better. Shut the door and left. The next day, I attempted. I did talk to him later and I told him that exact story. And he's like, well, I am so glad you told me I'm going to be so much more paying attention now when people say that they're not good. A year from now, what do you think the conversation is like?

[00:28:38] A year from now, I'm hoping that I can be telling you about some of what I've been trying to do locally or with other groups that I'm, suicide prevention groups that I'm making connections with, that some of that is starting to make some headway. You know, my book came out in 2017 and I feel like I've kind of, it's been like one and done kind of little events here and there.

[00:29:07] And most of them haven't felt like they've really had much impact. So I'd like to get something happening. That's an ongoing thing. Actually, one big thing that's coming up, I'm glad I thought of this, is that they're going to let me share my story in the church. It's going to be for those of you that have kind of know this, but don't know this about me. And then we'll see how old is the difference on how they treat me after they know, hey, I tried to kill myself.

[00:29:34] So how, how old is that group of people at Sunday school? Like varied ages? They're adults. Yeah. They're adults. Okay. Yeah. Adult Sunday school class. And actually I talked to the, the leader of the teens and he said, I think I want to bring the teens into this. I think that's something they need to hear. Very interesting. Very interesting. I'm wondering, have your views on suicide changed at all? I do think about it differently. I can see both sides of it clearer now.

[00:30:04] I can understand that despair. I can understand reaching that point where your mind is just not functioning properly. I can also understand from a perspective of getting ahead of it, putting in the protective measures. Like I was saying, I'm trying to kind of look at, okay, what are some trigger points? Mine was the merger.

[00:30:32] I'm thinking, what if you could bring into corporations when they have a merger instead of them just saying, well, you've been with us for 15, 25, 30 years and now we're done with you and we're going to throw you out like with trash, you know, and move on without you. Bring something in there. That's like, this is a big transition for these people. You know, bring in something where those that are like, oh, I don't know who I am anymore,

[00:31:01] have somebody to talk to. Mm-hmm. So I don't know where that'll go or how that'll go, but I've thrown that out to several people. So I remember when we talked, you were taking some medication to help out. I do take medication still. You know, I thought I was all victorious when my doctor said, let's try without the medication about, I don't know, it was probably within a month. My wife was talking to the doctor and she's like, no, I think she really needs that.

[00:31:30] He's a different person without it. So I don't mind taking it. I got something kicking around in my brain. It doesn't really connect with anything we've been talking about, but since it's kicking around in there, I'm going to say it. Sure. I think one of the things that I've been trying to get people to stop doing, which actually kind of happened to me before my attempt was dismissing people's feelings, dismissing what they're telling you. Hmm. Right.

[00:31:59] I know I've told a lot of people, this job sucks. It's, you know, it's like, I'm so frustrated. I'm going from frustrated about my job to being depressed about my job situation to now I'm despairing about my job situation. You know, I just kind of kept stepping down, down, down. Uh, a lot of times when I would talk to people, it'd be like, oh, you have all these other great things in your life. You know, don't let that one thing, uh, get to you. You shouldn't feel that way.

[00:32:29] I hate that line. I do feel that way. So don't tell me how I should feel. Just go with, okay, you do feel that way. How do we get you from where you are to where you would rather be? A lot of times I think that might be their way of kind of like getting out of the conversation of, oh, you're all good. You're, you're good. You know, I just told you I'm not good. So listen, amazing. Yep. A hundred percent. Someone tells you how they feel like believe them. Number one, meet them where they are.

[00:32:58] You got to believe people and you got to not like, yeah, but I don't think people get that Steven. No, they sure don't. Even in the moment, if you say to somebody, look, you're doing it right now. Like the thing we talked about where I say something and you're like questioning it, like even that's going to be hard for people to see. I think it's really hard to get that across. That's why education is so important. Try to educate the community. I think it's getting better, but. Perhaps. We try. We try. Appreciate your time reconnecting with me, Steven. Thanks, man. Yeah. I enjoy these. I really do.

[00:33:29] I think you're onto something here, John. Stay well, Mr. Steven in Illinois. Take care. As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support. Special thanks to Danny and Steven for your updates. I appreciate that. Appreciate you. If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out. Hello at suicidenoted.com. Check the show notes to learn more about this podcast, including our membership and the Noted Network. And that is all for episode number 252. Stay strong.

[00:33:59] Do the best you can. I'll talk to you soon.