Survivor Upate #14: Michelle 🇯🇵

[00:00:00] Some fairly traumatic stuff happened here locally. It left me in somewhere in between a dissociative fugue state and also just like insane level of ideation.

[00:00:14] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast I talk with suicide attempt survivors and ideators so that we can hear their stories.

[00:00:43] Every year around the world millions of people, many millions, try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough. And when we do talk about it, when we do engage, many of us, most of us, we're not very good at it. So one of my goals with this podcast, now more than five years in, is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with survivors in large part to help more people in more places hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone.

[00:01:09] Now if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, I'd love to talk with you. Please reach out. Hello at SuicideNoted.com You can learn more about this podcast wherever you listen on Apple or Spotify or SuicideNoted.com, our website. Remember there are polls in Spotify. I would love to know how you feel or how you think about some of these questions there. So check them out. And please note that we are now able to accept, with open arms and a big heart, tax-deductible donations.

[00:01:38] And we could really use the help for a number of things including our upcoming tour. The link is all over the place. GiveButter.com Slash Suicide Noted. Scroll down, scroll up, look over, look left, look right, you'll see it, you'll find it. Click it, check it out, read it. If you are able to and want to support us in that way, we would love that kind of support. Thank you so much. Finally, we are talking about suicide on this podcast. My guests and I do not hold back. So please take that into account before you listen or as you listen.

[00:02:05] But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn. Today I am talking with Michelle. Again, this is an update episode. Michelle lives in Japan and she is a suicide attempt survivor. I'm joined here by Michelle in Japan. Still in Japan, right? Yep. Your episode is 182. I just listened back to that blurb in the beginning. Do you remember that?

[00:02:32] Something about my, a reckoning when my family hears about it because it's kind of on them. When they hear the podcast episode. Yeah, yeah. All right, we're going to get to that in a sec. That's obviously a part of it. I'm very curious. Because you know, I chose that blurb for some reason. It just stood out. Thanks for talking with me again. Sure. If someone's listening to this and they follow Suicide Noted, they'll know you also, not only from speaking originally with me back in, when was it?

[00:03:01] Two years ago that we talked and not that it came out. It came out a couple months later. If anyone's curious and wants to hear the original episode, it's October 16th, 2023. When we talked then, how many suicide attempts had you had? At least one that I would consider a really serious attempt in terms of like, could have successfully worked. Quite a lot more of like, near slash like, childish attempts. Okay. Pillows strangling and that kind of stuff. So a lot of ideating in your life.

[00:03:32] Yeah. No hospitalizations. I remember that. Very intentionally tried to avoid that. How old are you? Oh my. You're not allowed to ask that. No, it's okay. I'm turning 43 next month. Can you do a one minute summary of your life up until 41 years old? Lots of child abuse. Something as a bit of an update from the original podcast that we did is that I found out, realized that there's some sexual abuse as well.

[00:03:57] Really nonstop through multiple parents, mother, stepfather, sorry, stepmother and father, kind of shifted hands. Plus being transgender, plus going to a, you know, fuck nuts, backwoods Baptist school, fundamental. Then an abusive, abusive ex and a lot of coercion. And that's kind of like a nonstop train of ideation. Mm-hmm.

[00:04:25] Minus like five years where things were pretty good here in Japan. Done. Five. Oh, nice job. So five years in Japan, they were good. Okay. Yes. And, but does that include the last two years since we talked? No, those five years were like 2014 to 2019. A little bit more money, a better, a little bit better friends and a little bit more acceptance. I know better now. I, or at least I have a better understanding now that I did last time we talked as to why that's the case. Okay.

[00:04:51] Before we get into the last two years, I don't even know why I'm so curious about this, but I am. And until somebody messages me and says, that's the dumbest question. No one gives a shit. I might change my mind then. I want to know if you listened to our episode. Yeah. Well, I listened to it probably just because I helped edit it. Um, right. Thanks for that.

[00:05:10] So, uh, yes, I did, but I also went back and listened to it a couple of times actually after it was released partly because I found it good in sort of summarizing to myself what I was dealing with. And also I found it useful as like previous context for things that I learned after the podcast came out. And there were also a few people who asked me questions.

[00:05:36] So you really want to know what was the response from those people or others that heard our conversation? So some of my friends heard it. A few of them were interested and they were pretty flabbergasted. I think one person said that they were impressed by how coherent I sounded, which is a credit to your editing. Yeah. Mainly in terms of like my family. So I sent it to my mom first and I said, actually I sent it to my mom and my dad. Okay. My dad didn't have like a clear contact.

[00:06:04] So I sent it to his work email address, which I assume never even got to him probably because of junk filters or whatever. Maybe he saw it and deleted it or didn't watch it. Or maybe he watched it and didn't bother saying anything. I really don't know. But as far as I know, he's never heard it. My mom, however, did listen to it. And she was initially very shocked and very like as empathetic as a person lacking in empathy could be about it.

[00:06:34] Yeah. So you're saying she just doesn't have that thing, but she was trying it. Like you can't. Yeah. I mean, it definitely bothered her that her child was feeling this way and had gone through some of those things because there were plenty of things in there that she didn't know about. And then quite a few other things that she apparently has forgotten. And so having an external context for what my experiences has been was interesting because she suddenly was like, well, of course I don't want my child to kill themselves.

[00:07:04] Like, obviously I don't want that. So like, what do I do? And I tried discussing what to do and it was kind of very quickly devolved back into, well, I'm not going to do that. I disagree with those things. I'm not going to do that. It wasn't too long until the election stuff ramped up and she jumped back on. And the Trump train and the trans people are mass murderers and all this kind of, you know, bullshit, conspiracy theory junk. And so I ended up having to cut her out of my life. How many people have you killed? Zero.

[00:07:34] We just debunked that theory. Yeah. Well, she found my Twitter account at some point. I think someone, someone showed it to her and she sent me a, she has a message saying like, or not message, a phone call. She was saying like, you know, I've seen your Twitter and you're into some, you're into some really like dangerous stuff. I'm like, what kinky stuff. Like, what, what are you worried about? Like trans stuff? Like, I guess she was thinking of some sort of like satanic, you know, BDSM, you know, sadistic, something or other.

[00:08:03] Like, it's not that exciting. Just a trans is kind of just dissidental. Not. But in her mind, you know, she was like, when did you become a radical? And I'm like, when did you start thinking that who I have been for all this time is radical? I found that interesting that it like changed the dynamic for a few months. Yeah. And then it very quickly went back. But what unexpectedly did happen was I got in contact with my sister who I hadn't talked to for like 13 years. Oh, cool.

[00:08:34] And it was extremely helpful because she didn't know anything about the abuse that had happened when I was a kid. I mean, she was, she was born when I was, I think 15 or 16. She didn't really see much of that. Obviously they weren't going to tell her about it for her to finally like find out. Because if you remember in the story, like they, my parents cut me off from them and refused to tell them anything. You know, I had no idea if they even knew why I stopped talking to them or not. And apparently they had never explained anything.

[00:09:04] They just kind of left it up to their imagination. So they thought that my brother and sister thought that I just didn't care about them anymore. And when they finally found out that, oh, it's because your big sisters is trans and we hate that. And we're kicking you out of the family. They, my sister especially was really upset. She changed the dynamic of her relationship with my dad.

[00:09:26] And so the podcast was really good because I was able to send it to her and quickly summarize, you know, in that brief episode, so many things that she really had no idea had been taking on taking place in her household. So that was an unexpected positive of it, I think. And while they listened, nobody said anything about me, Michelle? Come on.

[00:09:49] Actually, since you brought that up, my mom did say that it was a very interesting podcast and she is really interested in the, in the format of the, in the content. She might've actually listened to more than one episode, two people sitting down and discussing suicide. That's just something that not people think that anyone does, you know? Right. Um, since we talked two years ago, anyone listens to the first original episode, there was a big part of it where you're talking about your son.

[00:10:13] And if I recall a complicated relationship with your ex, do you have a relationship with him now? None. No. And they are living with my mom who I had to cut out of my life because she was just spouting conspiracy nonsense at me. Your ex, who I believe is from Thailand. Yes. Though you lived in Japan for a while. Your ex is with your mother. You're all from North Carolina. She's from Thailand. How old is he? He's four. Yeah.

[00:10:43] And I mean, I haven't seen him since 2022. No. I saw him on Skype a few times, but ever since last November, I haven't seen or talked to any of them. And the, one of the last things I told my mom was that I hope they don't get deported. How far are they from me? I'm in Chapel Hill. A couple hours. They recently, they've been, as far as I know, they've been bouncing back and forth between Winston-Salem area and New York. Why, why so much bouncing?

[00:11:10] My mom has a long-term fiance that lives up there. And what happened in November that it was, things changed? Very, very like condescending of my concerns and fears about, you know, my child's safety, you know, ex's safety, my safety, friends' safety, and all the other stuff. And she was just kind of like, none of that's, that's all nonsense. None of that's gonna happen. Blah, blah, blah, blah. You'll be fine. You know, they're not gonna do this. They're not gonna do that. Just fair. It was basically like, shut up and stop worrying.

[00:11:39] And then, you know, a few more conspiracy theories along the way about trans people involved. I knew I'd lost any hope of like, trying to get her to be empathetic. Because like, she literally, not only does she not have empathy, or even like concern for my situation, but she didn't have empathy or concern for what potentially could be a situation with the family that's living with her.

[00:12:01] Yeah, that's, that's what it comes down to. It just sucks. The whole thing just sucks. And I hate it. And it's wearing my mental patience. And my ideation is through the roof, because the whole world just fucking sucks. And I hate sitting here, you know, kind of alone, you know, not being able to do anything or say anything or fix anything or take part or help or just, just, just, just being here, watching it happen from a distance. Yeah.

[00:12:30] And, and not knowing when it's going to be my time, because, you know, like, they could take away my passport, you know, when I need to renew it, and, you know, all kinds of stuff. Like, there's just so many fears that are just too big and grand scheme to really even know what to, to do with them. And so in the last two years, or at least you were referencing November, you're ideating ramped up. Yeah. In part, I mean, at least in part because of that. Yeah. And you said there was an incident on railroad tracks or subway or metro? Yeah.

[00:12:59] Train, local train line. Some fairly traumatic stuff happened here locally. It left me in a, some, somewhere in between a dissociative fugue state and also just like insane level of ideation. And I was feeling so messed up that I just decided to go buy some alcohol and get really, really, really drunk.

[00:13:51] Mm-hmm. Really close. Didn't in the end, but got very, very close. Why do you think you stopped? I don't know. I think part of it is, is like trains. It's just like absolutely not the way I want to go. I mean, it's the, it's like one of the number one ways to go here other than like hanging. Right. You know, we don't have guns. Medicines are really strictly controlled. It's, it's, it's kind of hard to overdose.

[00:14:17] The type of methods that I hear guests talk about, you know, on the podcast often are very different from what's available here. Yeah. And I find that interesting. Yeah. So are you suicidal now? At this exact moment? No. Right. But also that could change at any point. So I guess now's a good enough time to, to mention it.

[00:14:41] One of your episodes, one of your guests helped me figure out something really important in terms of mental health that really kind of opened a big gateway in terms of reevaluating my whole life experience. Which is that one of your, one of your, one of your guests sat down and explained what it's like living with dissociative identity disorder. It was jarringly accurate to my experience.

[00:15:07] Catch myself because I was about to say our experience, but my experience, I'm going to try and use singular pronouns, plural pronouns slip out when we're talking about it, whenever I'm talking about it. But after getting an understanding of what that meant and being really, really deeply shocked by how it related to my own experiences, I went to my, you know, therapists and local doctors and stuff.

[00:15:33] And very quickly it was like, oh yeah, yeah, that makes total sense. And got diagnosed with that and I've been learning how to deal with that. And so what that means for this conversation is, is that the person that you are talking to right now is not the person who is usually suicidal. Okay. So how many others or how many more are there? How many more? That would be six, seven total. So.

[00:15:58] And do you know whether it's just from your own reflection or reflecting or therapy or whatever it might be like, why some of those identities came to be? Yeah. Uh, it took a lot of introspection and some therapy to sort of figure that out. But generally speaking, pretty much all a response to some sort of emotional need or trauma trigger. And pretty much all of them are triggered by social or emotional stimuli triggers traumas.

[00:16:27] I know these things probably develop over a long period of time, but do you think there was a, some period of time in your life where you essentially had DID, but it may have been long before you were diagnosed with DID? Oh, well, yeah. So it's kind of a progressing thing. It's kind of a response to, from all the research that I've done anyway, it's response to complex trauma as a child.

[00:16:53] And so the more trauma you're experiencing as a child, the more intensely it develops. That would be something that was starting probably, you know, really young, probably like seven, eight years old or earlier. I can look back what little I remember of my childhood, aside from just some trauma stories. I can look back and see moments where I can very clearly see one of those alters stepping in to handle a situation.

[00:17:22] I didn't have the words or the context to frame that around until recently, but I can look back and see it. And it's just kind of like, oh, that literally has been there trying to protect me, trying to protect us for decades. Right. But it's a covert thing in most cases. It's something that usually tries to keep self-secret because if everyone knows that, then, you know, like people are going to bully you or attack you or beat you up or manipulate you or whatever around it.

[00:17:52] So generally try to stay hidden, even from yourself. Most people that I talk to, if I actually have this conversation about it, which is not happening that often anymore, I really don't talk about it as much, will be like, oh, I mean, I noticed you kind of like would change sometimes, but I didn't notice. I didn't realize it was like to that extent. And it's like, yeah. So people notice it, but they don't notice it in that way, I guess.

[00:18:18] There was a situation where my ex got really freaked out because Bohemian Rhapsody came on and I did a full performance, you know, singing and dance and everything. And my ex got really freaked out and was like scared. And I didn't understand why. And now I understand.

[00:18:37] And it's like, oh, my personality like completely changed because it was not just like it was like a literal change that made her scared because she wasn't expecting that and didn't know why that would be happening. And I thought it was weird at the time that she was so freaked out by it because I'm just singing along to a song that everybody sings along with, I thought. A lot of people like that song. Right? Now I have a whole new context for why, like, she noticed something that I wasn't picking up on.

[00:19:07] And other people have noticed those little things throughout the years and said something about it, but not in terms that made sense. Do you remember your answer if I asked you about the pink and purple pill back in the day two years ago? I think I said I would take it. Okay. If I remember correctly, I think I said I would take it. All right. Now today? Hmm. I thought about that for a bit.

[00:19:28] Honestly, I would say I'm waffling between taking it and holding on to it until I'm ready to take it because I have a feeling. Well, let's just put it this way. If the world keeps going as downhill as it is, I can only handle so much of it. There's a big question. Make it to 44. I mean, I'm constantly surprised with how long I've already made it.

[00:19:57] I don't understand it. Yeah. And so I think there was probably going to be more years of that surprise, although I'm not looking forward to it. At the very least, as long as I'm working in the environment I'm working in right now, because we've talked about this a little bit in the YouTube, but I'm in a position where I'm working with a lot of students who are, you know, high school age students who are struggling with mental health stuff and eating disorders and self-harm and things like that.

[00:20:24] And helping kids, trying to talk to them and give them an ear that they can talk to so that they know they're not alone and try to help them, you know, not take the same steps that I want to take, you know, them not to end their lives. And that's been somewhat successful. I mean, I've had a few situations where I don't want to come out straightly and say like, yeah, I helped save their life, but I possibly very likely helped save their lives, at least for now.

[00:20:51] And so it's like, as long as I'm working at that place, I feel like there's a responsibility on me to stay alive, to be the example that says, I know it sucks, but we can survive this. And them surviving is as much proof for me as it is, you know, the other way around, I think. So maybe a few more years. Yeah. Memoir title? Did we have one? I don't remember.

[00:21:21] Doesn't matter then. Do we have one now? No. Memoir title will be, I forgot the title and that says something. Yeah, something like that. Right. Can we go a little meta? I like the meta, meta, meta, meta. All right. If it comes to you, you'll let me know. One question I know I asked you about was myths and misconceptions. So I want to reframe that a tiny bit. If there was a big myth or misconception that you stated, said two years ago that has changed, or if your ideas around suicidality in general, or perhaps yours,

[00:21:48] has shifted some in two years, that's a long-winded question, but I think you understand what I'm trying to ask. The thing about selfishness bothers me more than ever. There's a current level of me feeling like, it's weird. I feel like I have less responsibility to my family, who clearly doesn't give a shit about me, or if they do, they certainly don't know how to show it in a proper, loving, empathetic way,

[00:22:12] than I do towards students who I'm just casually interacting with in my day-to-day life. In the past, I felt like me taking my life would not be a selfish act at all because I was trying to protect my family from me. Because I really don't feel like, you know, like one of the reasons why I've never tried to take my son custody is I feel like I would not be the kind of parent that my child could be.

[00:22:38] If I took my life, my child would be completely alone in a foreign country with no support. But the framing around that idea of selfishness has shifted for me just in the sense that I now feel like I have a responsibility to these, you know, random teenagers who are talking to me about their own experiences and trying to survive life alongside me.

[00:23:01] So I think if I did take my life now, it would be a little bit selfish just because I chose to get involved and put myself out there to help them. I didn't have to do that. I could have left it up to fate or left it up to themselves completely and not said anything. But I chose to because it mattered to me. And so I feel like if I were to do something now, there is a level of selfishness involved in that. And it's not enough selfishness that I think outweighs the pain.

[00:23:31] But I do think the selfishness thing is very context heavy. For sure. If my physical pain ever reached a point where I literally couldn't deal with being alive, it doesn't matter. Any of that wouldn't matter to me. But, you know, or if, say, for example, you know, the government was like, Japan was like, okay, you know, you're, you were getting deported back to America. And America was like, you know, we're going to put you in a camp for trans people or something like that. You know, nonsense.

[00:24:01] Like, I wouldn't stay around. I wouldn't stay alive for that. I'm not going to, I'll take my life instead of going to some camp. Like, not that that's on the table right now. But if it were. Yeah. You know. If a lobster decides to end its life, would you say that lobster is a selfish, selfish?

[00:24:21] I mean, I think, I think we could get into all day about a debate about whether animals have experience and the ability, you know, the mental ability to experience things. But it's a great pun. I'll put it, I'll give you that. Thank you. What is either a goal of yours? Should you stay alive for the longer term? If any. I guess these are two different questions. One was about goals and one was about simply coping.

[00:24:50] What's one thing you do to cope, whether, whether others deem it as healthy or unhealthy. It's coping. Cigarettes. I stopped smoking for a year in 2024. And then I started smoking again this year. I haven't smoked during summer break for some reason, but sexual stuff, I guess. Also just like lots of YouTube videos. Very. And I'm sorry. I know that there are some really, really good Christian people who have been on this podcast. Wonderful things about how the religion has helped them.

[00:25:17] But I am very much in the fuck this camp. I look at the world around me, especially in America, and I'm just like so incredibly beyond done with that. I've been watching a lot of great deconstructing religion and very anti-religious, I guess you could say, or at least anti the bad parts of religion videos. And that's actually been oddly supportive in terms of coping because I feel less guilt and shame about who I am than I ever have before.

[00:25:47] Goals. I do have a good answer to that, I think. Like I want one that's like five to ten years out. Okay. Yeah. I definitely have two goals. One of them is to get some of the gender affirming surgeries that I want, which is the kind of thing where it's like, it feels like if I'm going to ask a bunch of people to help me because I'm just no fucking way I'm going to be able to pay for it entirely on my own. So if I'm going to ask people to help support me to save up for that, it's kind of rude for me to then go and kill myself after I'm done with it.

[00:26:16] But the other thing is I have been thinking really heavily during the past year about art and about expression through art, about suicide, about self-harm, gender, sexuality, expression. As best that I can do with my current level of ADHD, which is getting harder and harder to deal with, something that I diagnosed with at 15 and didn't get any help for for my entire life.

[00:26:42] I am putting energy towards exploring art and trying to come up with ways to express myself through art. And I have got some ideas and some projects that are in very infancy, but I nevertheless am moving towards that because I think that could be a really good way of getting some of these struggles out other than just talking about it, which everybody around me is insanely tired of me doing.

[00:27:13] Right, right, right. So that wouldn't be, so for this podcast, you need to talk. But you do have a suicide podcast and there would definitely be art that I'm making about suicide. I'll tell you one idea that I've thought up and planned out a little bit is a live piece where I am wearing clothes with fake blood and it looked like my neck is cut and I have jewelry on that's covered in fake blood.

[00:27:39] And I basically go to a major train station nearby and install myself as a suicide victim in front of everybody. Obviously, I'm going to take a massive amount of planning, but I think there's something to be said for forcing people to just take a moment out of their daily lives to think about suicide and what it means.

[00:28:06] And it's still very like, you know, a zygote of an idea, but. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. Well, this was an interesting talk. Do you want to add anything else before we get back? I know you had written some stuff down recently that you wanted to make for you covered. Pretty much I covered it all. But I do really want to thank all of your guests that have been on because I've learned a lot and I've been able to express my own feelings through listening and relate to things.

[00:28:32] And that's been really powerful to help me get through the last three years or so of listening to your podcast. One of the things that's been driving me crazy about looking at the world is like when I talked about listening to videos and things, I listened to these debate videos and people coming on debating about trans people and how they shouldn't exist or they shouldn't have access to blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, gender, women, what's a woman. And I remember listening to this one guy and thinking about things saying lack of empathy.

[00:28:59] He was talking about how children are so important and we have to protect children. We can't allow any of this stuff to be done for minors because it could hurt children. And then the host is just kind of like, yeah, what about all this evidence of all the children who attempt suicide when they're not given access to this care? And the guy was just kind of like, oh, fuck them. I don't care about suicide. Suicide. That's just made up shit. That's just mental shit. I don't care about that. And it's like, wow.

[00:29:29] So you care about children, but you don't care if children who happen to be different are literally talking about suicide. And that said a lot to me about how this social climate that we're in views empathy and suicidality. That it literally doesn't matter. It's just made up. It's just your fault. Your brain is fucked up. We're going to throw you in a hospital instead of giving you the treatment you need because I don't care if you're suicidal.

[00:29:59] Right. I think that's common, actually. Okay, Michelle. Thank you for talking again. Appreciate it. Yeah. Get some sleep. Okay. Bye. As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support. Special thanks to Michelle in Japan. Thanks for speaking with me again, Michelle. If you are a suicide attempt survivor or ideator and you'd like to talk, I would love to talk with you. Please reach out. Hello at suicidenoted.com.

[00:30:25] We're making a real big push to fundraise for our tour and some other upcoming projects. If you'd like to contribute, you can find the link in the show notes and the podcast description. Or you can visit suicidenoted.com. However you are involved, you participate, you support. Thank you. And that is all for this week's update episode. Stay strong. Do the best you can. I will talk to you soon.