Special Episode: Personal Narrative Stories 🇺🇸

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I squeeze my eyes shut. I turn up the music. I step on the gas. And I step on the gas.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_06]: I step on the gas. I step on the gas. And I step on the gas.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_06]: the subject of lack. I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn. Today

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_06]: is a different kind of episode. It's a special episode. Something I'm experimenting with.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Many of you know that I have been involved in the personal narrative storytelling world

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_06]: or scene for quite a long time, had an event back in 2022, in which I invited suicide attempt

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_06]: survivors to share personal narrative stories, a crafted story, the kind of story that has a

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_06]: beginning, a middle, and an end. We had four stories by five storytellers. That'll make sense a little

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_06]: later. Four of the five storytellers were actually guests on this podcast, 2020-2021.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_06]: And so that is what you will hear today. Stories, and in between the stories, a brief conversation

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_06]: not only with me, but the storytellers for this event answered some questions from an audience.

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_06]: This was on Zoom, so you'll hear that as well. So stories and some conversation. Two things I like

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_06]: more than just about anything else. Our first story is from Erica, and Erica lives in California.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I take a fistful of tranquilizers and wash them down with a bottle of fine red wine.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I find myself in an exquisite moment. I'm floating weightless on my back in the salt water. In the

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_00]: brilliant sunlight, I'm inundated with nothingness, a respite from my anxious condition, complete quietude

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_00]: of thought. Let it last. Please let it be more than a short plateau out of chaos. No whys or what-ifs or

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_00]: self-doubts. The conjuring of a wonderland. The blue sky is clear like the current state of my mind.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_00]: The brilliant sunlight vanishes as reality jolts me back into consciousness. I've been staying with a

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_00]: friend since childhood, and she has a good heart. She's happily married, a public service lawyer in

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Los Angeles. She's taken pity on me. I'm heartbroken from a bad breakup. I'm an unemployed singer in a

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_00]: defunct rock band. My friend arrives home and finds me in and out of consciousness, and I'm sobbing.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to die. Please just let me die. While we're waiting to be seen at the UCLA emergency room,

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I beg my friend for the tranquilizers. She's put the bottle in her purse to show the doctor.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, she refuses. I jump at her and grab her purse and pull out the bottle, pop it open,

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and the pills fly everywhere. I'm yelling at the orderly guy that he is a fascist for not

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_00]: letting me smoke a cigarette. He rebukes my behavior, and I get a taste of what my future may

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_00]: be depending on what the doctor decides. I don't think I really want to die as much as just sleep

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_00]: for a long enough time so that when I wake, my shattered life will be back together again.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I am committed to the UCLA mental ward. My condition deemed acute, a danger to myself.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm put on the side of the ward for the extremely ill. I spent two weeks there, and after I moved to

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_00]: a recovery home for people with mental illness. It's my night, my turn to meet with the recovery

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_00]: home psychiatrist. I know exactly what I'm going to do to get out of there as soon as possible.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I finally understand what the orderly on the ward meant when he said I had to start playing the sanity

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_00]: game, keep agreeing with everything they say, especially when they say that I have bipolar

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_00]: disorder. The doctor is waiting. I enter a small cozy office with an overstuffed couch.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_00]: For me to sit on. He sits across from me in a chair. He's young, maybe 32. And he has a warm

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_00]: paternal maturity about him that makes me feel like he's older. He's nurturing, relaxed while

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: professional. He explains, take a step away from what you believe to be true. Question, is this real?

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Bipolar depression is a powerful force, but with the medications and with reality checks, it is

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: manageable. I want to believe him. Dr. K continues, it may be a lifelong challenge to remain. He pauses

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_00]: thoughtfully. I interject. Sane? He laughs. He's honest. I like that. He says, well, yes, but I was

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_00]: going to say, stay stable. What does stable even look like? I wonder. I'm like a spinning top that

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: never stops. My life is a blur of misinterpretations, missteps, and tragically incorrect calculations.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And I've destroyed my life. Mental illness means I'm entirely defective. I burst into tears.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Handing me a box of tissues. Dr. K says, I believe in you. He looks at me with what seems like true

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_00]: compassion and understanding. My session is over. I thank Dr. K. It's the first time since this nightmare

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: began that I feel respite from my condition, complete quietude of thought, no whys or what-ifs or self-doubts.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_00]: My mind is clear.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks, Erica. May I ask you a question?

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Because I imagine after you tell a story like that, it's a little bit like, whoa,

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_06]: I got a good sense of why that doctor was a little different. Perhaps this is an obvious question.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_06]: It sounds like you've had your fair share of doctors in the mental health space who were not

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_06]: like him.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's true. I was very lucky. It just turned out it was really wild. He was on my treating team

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_00]: at UCLA. And when I first met him, he said, I don't think you remember me because I was

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: quite out of it. And he knew my case and we really connected. And then he continued to treat me

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_00]: pretty much for like 15 years on and off, depending on mostly steadily. And then I switched health

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_00]: insurance because of my job, whatever. And then I saw a new psychiatrist that was the exact opposite.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was really unfortunate. I find that it's harder to find someone to connect with,

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_00]: much easier to find people who suck than the good ones.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_06]: That goes beyond the mental health space. But yeah, for sure. I know for me, and I'm not going

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_06]: to talk much about me, but yeah, I have, you've heard a story and some others here have heard a

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_06]: story I share where, you know, I was in the mental health system, a psych unit for a week or so,

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_06]: and it was really, really hard, but there was one particular person who made a huge difference and it

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_06]: wasn't a particularly exceptional. I mean, it was exceptional, but if you were just looking at it,

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_06]: you say it was rather mundane what he did, but it was very powerful after being treated a certain way

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_00]: for, for a couple of days. So. Sean, there's some really amazing questions in the chat right now.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I see what does stable even look like when meeting with Dr. K. Does your perspective on that question

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: differ now from when you initially had that conversation? I think that I've come to understand

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_00]: my form of stability, the things that I really have to watch out for. What was really important

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: to me then, which is still really important to me now is that I had a full artistic life. I had been

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_00]: an actress and a writer and I sang in a band and I was always very artsy. And at that time I felt like

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I lost everything and I was never going to find the stability to live that artistic life that was so

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_00]: important to me. And so I feel like my perception of stability, it was hard for me to look at myself

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_00]: as not stable, but my perception of stability now is that I'm doing the best that I can. And some days

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00]: are better than others. And when I'm feeling destabilized, I'm super grateful for my, my friends

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_00]: because that's who's my support system and, and for thing and for things like this. Okay. So someone

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: asked me what, if any advice would you give to someone else struggling with this diagnosis so that they

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: could power through the pain, I would say some people don't want medication, but for me, it was really

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_00]: integral. I know that without the medications to balance my imbalance of chemicals in my brain, I wouldn't be

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_00]: functioning at a high level. So my advice would be if you're going to go the route of medication to try as much as

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_00]: possible because it's really hard and so much trial and error side effects. You know, I once heard someone say

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_00]: that psych meds can be like opening up the hood of a car and pouring oil all over hoping it seeps into the right

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_00]: place. But I know people who found stability on medications. Okay, so someone asked me, do I ever regret

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_00]: still being alive? Oh, that's a shit? That's a Sean type question right there. No, I am very grateful

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: that I'm still alive. Because I think about how sad the people who love me would feel would have felt

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and how profoundly grateful, because that sometimes it's so dark that that doesn't even bring people

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: back. There are times I have like extreme anxiety, like it gets so bad. And that I try not to medicate

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_00]: with anything addictive, addicting, addictive. I think, I don't know if I can do this anymore. Like,

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: it's like, I just want the stress and the anxiety to stop. And it feels like, in that moment that it's

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_00]: going to kill me, like, I feel like it's going to kill me. But I get out of it with like the coping

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: skills that I practice. And I am grateful that I'm getting to do this and have wonderful friendships.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And I have a beautiful niece and nephew. I'm turning my birthday is coming up. And it's hard

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_00]: because it's an older one. Like a fun red wine. So have you ever dealt with a length,

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_00]: lengthy depressive episode? If so, how long and what helps you get out of it? Yeah, I was super

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_00]: depressed for years. And the true thing that helped me get out of it was I started volunteering

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_00]: at an organization for kids in underserved neighborhoods to help with their homework and

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_00]: reading and writing. What does Sane look like? Great line. And the honesty of the doctor,

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_00]: glad that you met that one. Yes. Sane looks like I'm able to get out of bed and that I'm not pushing

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: a shopping cart. Yes. Sorry, it's not funny. I did that. What would you say was the biggest challenge

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: in relating this story to people like us who you don't know? Well, when I first started telling my

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_00]: mental health story, like seven years ago, it was terrifying. And I thought, I don't think I should

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_00]: reveal this. Like, it's not a good thing to tell people that you're crazy. No one's going to trust

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you. People are going to stay away from you. People are going to be suspicious of you. And then I just

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_00]: decided that I had to tell it because for my own well-being, I knew it would be cathartic. I felt like

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_00]: it could maybe help people. And so I just did it. I just decided there was going to be more positive

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: the negatives. And even if there were negatives, even if it was a small light of hope that I felt

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_00]: by telling them that it was worth it. Good. Thanks again, Erica. Thank you. Thank you, everybody.

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Our next storyteller is Jamie, who resides in a place I know quite well, New York City. Take it away,

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Jamie. In the last months of my drinking in 2006, I was obsessed with drinking. I was also obsessed

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_05]: with suicide. Now, at that point, I was not just an everyday drinker. I was an every waking hour

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_05]: drinker. Suicide was the last thought when I passed out at night and the first when I came to in the

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_05]: morning. But I didn't have the guts to do it. I kept hoping for divine defenestration,

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_05]: some magical force to pull me out of bed and toss me out my bedroom window to the street 10 floors

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_05]: below. Or maybe I would make it look like an accident, you know, the old step in front of the

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_05]: bus routine. But then I would think about my partner, Michael, and my parents. And I thought,

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I can't do that to them. To myself, yes, but not to them.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And I had a friend, Paul, who had killed himself a few years before. But before that happened,

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_05]: he had gone MIA for a while. He lived in Los Angeles. I live in New York. So we didn't see

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_05]: each other that much. And then he resurfaced and he was in New York. And we went out to lunch.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And over several Bloody Marys, he told me that he had tried to kill himself. And I said, why,

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Paul? You have so much going for you. You're a great writer and you're smart and you're witty.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And so many people love you. He said, I just felt like I was done. Done. And when he said that last

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_05]: done, it was like a dead pigeon fell on the table. And I still couldn't understand it. And then later

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_05]: that year, he tried again and he succeeded. And I was so mad. And I thought, oh, how could anyone get to

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_05]: that point? So I always joke that I was a functioning alcoholic. And as long as the word functioning was in

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_05]: front of alcoholic, I was fine. I was a life of the party kind of drinker. But at this point in 2006,

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I was no longer drinking at any parties. I had been thrown out of, I don't know how many bars,

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_05]: at least two that I remember. I had been fired from one job and I was close to being fired from

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_05]: the new job that I was in. I don't think functioning was a part of the equation anymore.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_05]: On this particular morning in 2006, I overslept and I emailed my boss a lame excuse. And when I came to,

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_05]: there was an email from her and she just wrote again, question mark, question mark, question mark.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And I thought, I can't do this anymore. And I started walking around my apartment in circles.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And then I looked in the mirror and I saw a ghost of myself. Or was it the picture of Dorian Gray?

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I was bloated, splotchy skin, bloodshot eyes. And I said, nose to nose with my reflection in the mirror,

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm done. Done. I understood how Paul felt. I got it. I didn't blame him anymore. And then I grabbed

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_05]: a bottle of sleeping pills. I didn't think about my partner, Michael. I didn't think about my parents.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't think period. I was operating on vodka and a mountain of self-loathing. And I poured a vodka

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_05]: on the rocks and I went into my bedroom and I closed the blinds to block out the bright morning sun.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And there in the dark of day, I emptied those pills into my mouth. I washed them down with that

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_05]: glass of vodka and I climbed into bed and I pulled the covers around me as the sounds of traffic and

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_05]: life 10 floors below drifted away. Well, when I came to, I was in the detox form.

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Of a hospital and Michael, my partner had found me. I was glad I was alive, I think. And then over the

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_05]: next week, I just shuffled around those halls and paper slippers in a fog. And I thought, okay,

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm glad it didn't take, but I still felt done. My fantasy of what my life would be next was I was

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_05]: hoping that maybe they would put me away in a nice sanitarium, you know, like one of those sanitariums

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_05]: in old movies. And, and I would just live out the rest of my days there. I was 38 years old,

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_05]: by the way. And, you know, occasionally a handsome nurse in crisp white linens would come into my room

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_05]: and gently seat me in a wheelchair and wheel me down a gently sloping verdant lawn where I would greet the

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_05]: occasional visitors. And that would be it. Well, that's not what happened. After that weekend detox,

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I went away to rehab for 60 days and slowly I started to get sober. And it took me about two

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_05]: years of starts and stops before I finally got the alcohol and the drugs out of my system.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_05]: And once the alcohol was out of my system, the depression and the suicidal ideation was out of

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_05]: my system. And I started to rebuild a new life for myself. I felt like, I don't know,

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_05]: there was something gnawing at me. I felt like a new house that was built on an old foundation,

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_05]: still riddled with termites. The suicide attempt that I told you about wasn't my first. I had tried

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_05]: it one other time, 11 years prior when I was 27 years old. I don't remember much about that attempt

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_05]: because every time the memory of it would come up, I would just obliterate it. Like, you know,

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_05]: those annoying Facebook reminders, but I can tell you this, I was a book publicist and I had organized

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_05]: a very glamorous sheet book party and the star wattage was blinding. And rather than feeling

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_05]: proud of what, you know, I had accomplished in organizing that party and pulling it off and

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_05]: being happy that I was around all those people, I felt like a nothing. I felt like the hired help.

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_05]: And I felt like because I wasn't pursuing my artistic ambitions, I would never be anywhere near as

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_05]: accomplished as those people there. And I got drunk at the party and I went home and I drank more.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_05]: And then I remembered, I had some pain, painkillers left over from a sprained ankle,

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_05]: which I had got because of a drunken fall. And I took them and I went to bed and I woke up the next

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_05]: morning and I was stunned that I had done that, but I was relieved that nobody knew I wasn't caught.

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And I went to work and I didn't tell a living soul. I didn't tell my partner, Michael,

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_05]: and I didn't tell anyone over the ensuing years. And maybe if I told someone, I might've gotten help

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_05]: with my drinking sooner and maybe have not tried it that second time when I came closer.

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_05]: So why tell that story now? Now that I have several years sober, I have a whole new life writing,

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I have my business, I'm performing. I'll tell you why. I own that story. So it doesn't own me.

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_05]: And every time I tell that story, it's a promise to myself that I won't make the third time the charm.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you, Jamie. So you said in your story, you've not drank again.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_05]: No, like I said, after that attempt, it got me into rehab and then I started getting sick.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_05]: It was two years later is when I've had my last drink. So 2008 was my last drink.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Simple-minded question perhaps. Has that been hard?

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_05]: It's not now, but yes, it was. And it took me two years from that time. I mean, actually,

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I had tried to get sober a few years before that. So yes, the journey to getting sober was hard.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Is it hard now? No, but I stay sober, which, you know, and staying sober, by the way,

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_05]: is my suicide prevention plan because I know if I drink or drug, it will take me to that place again

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_05]: because I went to that. I almost went to that place when one of the relapses after rehab,

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_05]: like within one evening, I was, I had gotten drunk and was thinking about killing myself.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_05]: But I do it through 12 step, you know, through meetings and through, um, through therapy.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_06]: And Jamie's got a couple of questions in the chat that he wants to respond to.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Have you ever felt like you've reached a point that you do feel like you can't do that to yourself,

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_05]: not just living for them, but also for your own sake? Or does that line still hook

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_05]: through a few? Oh yeah, absolutely. These days I don't want to do that to myself as well as not

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_05]: doing it to them for sure. This also kind of ties in with being sober for me. And for a lot of people

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I know you can't get sober or say sober until you want it for yourself. You can, maybe you can stay

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_05]: sober for somebody else or for a job or for, for your health or for your looks. But if you're not

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_05]: doing it ultimately for yourself and wanting it for yourself, it's, you really are going to do that.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_05]: But yes, I I'm, I'm definitely, uh, staying alive for myself. Uh, I am at that point where I,

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_05]: it would be first, I couldn't do it to myself. And second, because of what it would do to my

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_05]: family and friends. Uh, did you feel guilty when you woke up in the hospital to your partner? Was

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_05]: he angry with you? What was the first convo with him? Like, first of all, I just felt,

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I felt awful because I felt, I mean, I was sick from the, from the alcohol. So I felt physically

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_05]: awful and I felt ashamed and I didn't want anyone to know. I mean, like I knew my partner of course

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_05]: knew, but I didn't want my mother to know. And that's a whole other story, which I won't get

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_05]: into here. Yes, I did feel guilty. And was he angry with me? He, no, he was very loving and kind.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And he just, you know, was afraid, um, and was worried about me. And then we, and he said,

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_05]: the other question is what was the first convo with him with Michael? Like,

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_05]: we really didn't talk about that until I was in rehab and he came for a visit and I took him to a,

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_05]: one of my meetings with me and he shared about it there about him finding me and knowing and feeling

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_05]: that there's something, something wasn't right that day. And he, and then we, he and I had a

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_05]: convo with my counselor, rehab counselor. And, and we talked about that. And I certainly felt guilty

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_05]: then, but he, he was just, you know, talked about how terrified he was, uh, and upset, but there

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_06]: wasn't anger there. So, uh, thanks again, Jamie. I really appreciate it. Our next storyteller is

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Anne who lives in the Chicagoland area. Take it away, Anne. I never truly wanted to die until that

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_02]: day. True. I'd scratched myself raw with a post of an earring. I had taken so many pills and been pumped

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_02]: full of charcoal again and again, made to retch in an ER in a suburban hospital with a platinum blonde

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_02]: resident hovering over me asking, are you done with this? There's so much more. I had a devil darkness,

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_02]: acute depression so thick. I didn't care about nada coupled with a severe drinking problem,

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_02]: but that day was different. I had made a firm decision sitting in a cheerful yellow room with

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: slogans on the wall. Easy does it. Keep it simple. In a posh rehab with 200 thread count per kale sheets,

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I decided to really kill myself. A plump nurse bearing a tray of asparagus soup and a veggie burger

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_02]: with Dijon mustard and pickles appeared at my door. Knock, knock. Here's your dinner. Easy does it.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I ate the burger. I made my bed. I put on red lipstick and a Rolling Stones t-shirt,

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and I pranced out of my room and knocked down another patient's door named Ruthie.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Ruthie, would you mind if I borrowed your blow dryer? Mine's on the fritz. No problem, Anne.

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I took the blow dryer back to my room. It was maroon. Cute. I had taken a red bucket from the

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_02]: maintenance closet that morning. I had all my tools. I did not think of my parents or my siblings.

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I did not think that this would ruin the treatment center. Acute depression is that selfish.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't believe in going to heaven. I just knew the whole fucking thing would be over.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I filled up the red bucket with water. I fired up the blow dryer like a turbo Mustang,

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_02]: and with one huge movement, I plunged the blow dryer into the bucket, like diving into a brackish

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_02]: pool of emptiness. That was my sickness. There was another slogan across from me as I plunged the

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_02]: blow dryer. Let go and let God. Little jolts of electricity started pinging into my hand.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Ping. Ping. I waited for the explosion. Nothing happened except the ping. Death wasn't there.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_02]: God damn it! I yelled at the top of my lungs. Just then the lights blacked out. I was in sheer

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: darkness. I could hear the other patients coming out of their rooms and swearing and saying,

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_02]: what the hell's going on? I sat there in the dark, consumed by anger. This was supposed to work.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I heard it worked. This was supposed to be foolproof. Fuck. A bit of time passed where I lay in my bed

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_02]: rigid with rage. There was a knock on my door. I fucking opened it. There was a bent over maintenance

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_02]: man with a giant ring of keys and a name tag that said Dirk. There's been a blackout on the unit.

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_02]: It appears it started in your room. My room? Yes. Ruthie appeared behind the maintenance man.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Anne? Mind if I have my blow dryer back? No prob. Now here's where I have a memory blank.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember if Ruthie's blow dryer was ruined. I don't remember what I did with the bucket.

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember what the maintenance man did to get the lights back on. I do know for certain

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_02]: no one thought anything about a suicide attempt. I was soon herded into the common room with the

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_02]: other patients by some ecstatic frosty blonde counselor who was probably yelling the slogan,

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_02]: easy does it. After that, I remained in my room as much as possible. The staff left me alone because

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I was always crying. I barely made it to the recovery meeting with goofy people spewing garbage

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_02]: while we were force fed stale coffee. But I did take the medication they gave me.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Reluctantly. I had because I was hopeless. I don't remember how long it took, but one day the pills

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_02]: kicked in. To say it was dramatic is an understatement. It was like walking into a sunlit room.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Nothing had changed, but everything had changed. I did not want to die. The death battle was gone.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I started to really participate in the program of recovery at the Posh Treatment Center with 200

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_02]: thread count per kale sheets and exquisite veggie burgers. And I left that place and embraced life.

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I really did. And today I know that I never believed in God or going to heaven, but I know it was grace

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_02]: that saved me. How are you feeling? Good. Good. Is that your only attempt? No, that was the most serious

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_02]: one though. That was truly wanting to die. The other ones I think were truly asking for help.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Right. But this was truly the final thing. What is one myth around ideating or attempting or all

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_06]: things suicide, so to speak, that you think is total bullshit? Okay. And I said this in my performance,

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's one thing I don't wish I wished I hadn't said. I think when you're that depressed, you're not

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: selfish. Okay. Claim it as selfishness. Pain is so unbelievable. You do just want to end it for those

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_02]: who take it seriously, that it's not a cry for help. I judge that I put that in there precisely because I

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_02]: don't think it's selfishness, really. You wish you hadn't put it in this story? Maybe. It isn't

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_02]: selfishness. And I'd like to hear from other people who've done that. I will tell you that

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_06]: of all the myths that I've heard, and that's how I tend to frame it on the podcast. And we've had

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_06]: probably what, about 140 conversations now. That's by far number one. I mean, people are mad.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. Commit suicide. They're mad. They turn to themselves and say selfishness,

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_02]: or they say, what could we have looked for that this was going to happen? So there's extreme sadness

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_06]: and complete anger. It tends to be extremes, right? I think that. And Dan, share with us the comment

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_06]: that one of our guests made in the chat. I love the way you painted a picture of the place you were

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_02]: in with the side-by-side of the counselor's tones and phrases and slogans, paired with your inner

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_06]: monologue thoughts. Thank you. I concur. Thank you again, Vandy. I always love your stories,

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_06]: particularly on this topic. Our final story is by two storytellers. It's a braided story.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_06]: Chandra, who lives in Massachusetts, and JC, who lives out in California.

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Take it away, ladies. I'm brushing, like always, to make daycare. Beyond this lies a deep,

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_04]: dark abyss of sleep-deprived new parenthood. Today was awful, but so was yesterday and the day before.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It feels endless. It feels bottomless, and it feels hopeless. But I start my car and I gun the engine,

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_03]: trying to beat time, while knowing full well that I'm the one that's beaten. I peel out of the parking

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_03]: lot and I hang a left, mainly from memory because my vision is blurry from tears. I drop off my project

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_01]: to the client with no time to spare. I am on my way from San Diego to Phoenix for Christmas,

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and when I get back in my car, as soon as my project leaves my hands, extreme relief sets in,

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and so does extreme exhaustion. But I'm determined not to let my terrible decision to procrastinate this

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_01]: work ruin my vacation. Every holiday that I spend with my grandparents could be my last,

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: because they're both in their 80s. So I shake myself awake, turn the key, and start to drive.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I shake my head to snap out of it, and my eyes travel up to the traffic light just up ahead.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_03]: It's green, so I accelerate trying to make it through, but with just about a block left to go,

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_03]: it turns red. And that triggers this jumble of thoughts in my head. Questions. Is my husband in

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_03]: town? Yes, yes, he's not traveling for work this week. Does daycare know his number so they can call

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_03]: him to pick up the baby? Yeah, they've got his number, they'll call him. Does anyone really need

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_03]: my broken, useless self around? No, no, they really don't. I get on the 8 freeway. Great,

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_01]: there's holiday traffic. The last six weeks have been like one long downward spiral. My ex is dating

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_01]: one, no, two of my friends. And my doctor tells me that I have to set a follow-up appointment,

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_01]: but how much is that going to cost without insurance? I've been working 80 hour weeks now for

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_01]: how many weeks? When was the last time that I slept more than three hours or ate real food? I can't even

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_03]: think. I just feel doomed. I'm almost at the light. I wonder if the chicken that I pulled out of the

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_03]: freezer that morning has thawed already. I'm going to try a new recipe for chicken marsala for dinner

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_03]: tonight. I think I might know how to debug that Python scripted work and to finally make it run.

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to make a really big difference. Today is the day that I'm supposed to be

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_03]: gluing little rhinestones onto the toy car that I'm crafting for my little son. And he's going to be

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_01]: really excited when I get it to him. Up ahead are the rocky cliffs and I see a sign warning of high

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_01]: winds. I start to nod off on the freeway, but jerk myself awake. Instinctively, I check the rear view

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_01]: mirror and I see all the loose Christmas presents in my backseat. The hardback Hillary Clinton book I got

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_01]: for my mom. The overpriced cut cone knife set for my sister and brother-in-law. My new boots. This year,

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_01]: even more than usual, I stressed out trying to find time for gifts. Oh, which I did not even wrap. I will

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_01]: have to do that at my mom and dad's. Will grandpa be lucid this time? And what about grandma? I haven't

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_04]: seen her since she started getting dementia. My eyes catch on the dashboard and all I can think

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_03]: is how badly it needs to be dusted. My nostrils flood with the acrid odor of stale coffee. The

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_01]: traffic light ahead is still lit. My head snaps up and I realize I fell asleep again. Instead of pulling

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_01]: over, I chug some more coffee. It doesn't help. I still feel very woozy, but I just don't care

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_01]: anymore. I squeeze my eyes shut. I turn up the music. I step on the gas. And I step on the gas.

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_06]: It's two stories and it's one story and there's no need to label it anything other than that.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_06]: How does that feel to tell that? Because I know if I can share that you haven't,

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_06]: well, you've told those a version of that and individual stories before, but I don't think

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_06]: it's something that you've done a lot. I don't think a lot of the world knows. Am I right?

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Or if it makes a difference.

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Does that feel weird or?

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel good. Something that we had talked about was just that we have shared our stories. Each of

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_01]: us have shared that story before and doing it in this format was very different and very zoomed in to

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: a very specific moment of our stories.

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_03]: It's been really interesting for both of us to work together on this and Sean and Joanne, who was

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_03]: helping us achieve this incredible new to both of us style of storytelling. It was so revealing

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_03]: because they asked us a really interesting question. They asked us, what's at the heart of your story?

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was so bizarre that both of our stories were about the same specific thing about how impulsive

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_03]: our decision was. So we had to develop this hyper focus on that part of the story. So those of you

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_03]: who've heard our full stories, this is just like maybe one 10th of it. But for me, it was very liberating

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_03]: to just not talk about the before, not talk about the after, but just stay in those few seconds in which

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_03]: both of us made these crazy, crazy decisions. That is the core of what we want people to know

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_03]: about our experience.

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_06]: That very well. Yeah, I think it's important. And it's one of my goals with this, I call it a project,

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_06]: project. I don't know if that's the right word. It's like there's different stories around suicide

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_06]: or suicide attempt. It's, there's many stories and I think it's interesting to explore them.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_06]: And some of them that are the ones we tend to hear are equally valuable, but I think it's not

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_06]: the complete picture. So for me, the conversations and particularly these kinds of stories are what

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_06]: I like to use as the vehicle. So you only had that one moment, the attempt that both of you took place

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_06]: in a car in that time since, have you come close to stepping on the literal or proverbial gas since?

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry if this causes pain to any of my friends in the audience, but yeah, I have. I think it's so

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_03]: interesting. Sean shared the story that he did, that it is the space in between trying and not trying.

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_03]: But one of the things is, I think the most important thing that happened with this one

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_03]: attempt that I made, it showed me how impulsive it can be, how spur of the moment it can be.

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And even though I know that it could happen again, because how do I know? I hadn't planned that one.

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_03]: How do I know it won't happen again? But I do know that it's made me incredibly self-aware of it.

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And when I find myself crawling or rolling to the edge of that deep, dark abyss that I had described

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_03]: before, beyond which I now know I can do something really stupid in a fraction of a second,

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I will say I've caught myself because I'm hyper-aware. Because I know now I'm not looking for

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_03]: myself, sobbing into my pillow and saying, oh my God, I can't take it anymore. Apparently,

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_03]: that's not the way it works in my head. Apparently, everything is fine. And I'm making

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_03]: plans to cook a nice dinner. And I decided to run the way to the question that you were asked,

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Sean. I think it's less likely it's going to happen to me. I think the possibility exists,

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_03]: but I'm so aware of it now. I really hope that I'm not going to come this close ever again.

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Who knows?

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Who knows?

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Jade?

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. No, I have not had any type of experience like this since then. This was a very powerful

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_01]: experience for me. And since then, I've developed a lot of tools and support system. And so I also

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_01]: think I'm hyper-aware now. I don't push myself to the brink like that anymore. And yeah, my life feels

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_03]: very, very different from what it was then. Sean, may I take a question that came before from Sharon?

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Sure, of course.

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_03]: For both of us. She said, so what happened in that moment? And I know that it was a really big

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_03]: challenge for us to write this story and take that few seconds and stretch it out. And you really

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_03]: guided us so well to say, let it hang there. And I'd like to speak to what happened to me. And I think

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_03]: that's the way we structured both of our stories is that pain just gets really intense and hard to

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_03]: resist. But for me specifically, because we drew out those seconds, we gave you a peek into how

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_03]: it's all happening in a fraction of a second. But when you feel like it would be easier for darkness

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_03]: to roll down than to go on another minute feeling like this, I think I feel like we're hardwired to

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_03]: survive. Our primal instincts are to live. And for me, I definitely know that anytime I take one point

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_03]: of view, I think about the opposing side. So in our stories, my head went through all these reasons

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_03]: why I should end my life. And right on the heels of it came everything that was going on in my life,

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_03]: right? That chicken Marsala, how I was going to finally crack some, you know, fix some code at work,

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_03]: my little son and the joys that I got from him. And so that's what happened in that moment is

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_03]: the pros and the cons balanced, like fought, warred against each other in our head. We all have these

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_03]: loud voices in our head, you know, the devil and the angel sitting on either shoulder. And I think

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_03]: what happened for me in that moment is it wasn't enough. I guess that the pain was heavier, which

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_03]: is why I did what I did. And then I'm ever so grateful that I came out of it okay. But I think

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_03]: that's what happened in the moment. And I think maybe that happens to most people is in a fraction

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_03]: of a second, your brain works faster than you realize. What do you think, Jay?

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I was asked what ended up happening. My experience was very reckless, feel judged. Sometimes I've had

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_01]: people tell me like, oh, that wasn't an attempt. Like, why would you be telling this story? I was tired

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and I was driving, but there was a lot more to it. And I think it's important if someone

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_01]: identifies themselves as an attempt survivor, then just, you know, go with that, believe them.

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_06]: That's a better starting point.

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's very helpful to, you know, judge someone for that. But in my story, I did,

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I did end up having, I fell asleep and I did have a car crash and it was very dramatic car crash.

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And I had a near-death experience. That is what helped me get to the point where I am today. Like

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_01]: this was, this was a really important experience in my life. And, you know, it's unfortunate that I felt

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_01]: so hopeless and reckless at the time, but I would like to say that I would not make a decision like

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_01]: that in the future. And that my life was saved for a reason.

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_06]: As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support and special thanks to Erica,

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_06]: Jamie, Anne, Chandra, and JC. Thank you all very much for your stories on your attempts or near

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_06]: attempts. If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you would like to talk, please reach out.

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or Twitter slash X at suicide noted. Of course, you can check the

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_06]: notes to learn more about the podcast, including our membership and a bunch of other cool shit.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_06]: And that is all for this special episode number 225. Stay strong, do the best you can. I will talk to you soon.