Special Episode: A Convo on Pain, Mental Illness & Weird Words

[00:00:00] One of the things I've learned or perhaps been reminded of in the last four years is like, I don't think people take themselves out if they're not in a whole lot of pain.

[00:00:51] One of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors in large part to help more people in more places hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone.

[00:01:02] Now, if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:01:06] Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or X, at least for now, at Suicide Noted.

[00:01:12] And you can check the show notes to learn more about this podcast, including our membership.

[00:01:18] We would love that kind of support.

[00:01:20] You can also rate and review this podcast, Suicide Noted, of course, that helps people find it.

[00:01:26] Of course, we want more people to find it.

[00:01:29] And stay tuned because soon I will be sharing more information about this idea that has been percolating for some time now about helping other people not only feel less shitty and less alone, like I try to do as best I can on this podcast, but help other people start their own podcast about difficult things, hard things, and have conversations, facilitate it.

[00:01:51] If that is something that sounds interesting to you or perhaps someone you know might want to learn more about that, it's coming soon.

[00:01:58] Now, finally, we are talking about suicide on this podcast, and I don't hold back, so please take that into account before you listen or as you listen.

[00:02:05] But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn.

[00:02:08] Today is a special episode in which I'm having a conversation with three of our members.

[00:02:14] Elizabeth in Washington, who was a guest in October of 2023, Ambient in Alberta, who was our guest in June of 2024, and Deanna in Colorado.

[00:02:26] And I'm going to start this conversation with a question.

[00:02:33] If you are thinking about and or attempt to take your life, are you mentally ill?

[00:02:40] And you know how I feel about this, by the way, but I'm going to play devil's advocate.

[00:02:43] Of all the things in the world one might do to suggest they're mentally ill, it can be argued fairly, I believe, that killing yourself is as good of an example, reflection of not wellness.

[00:02:58] More than running around naked, maybe, I don't know.

[00:03:02] More than yelling, more than, no, I'm not calling either of you mentally ill.

[00:03:07] And you are both suicide attempt survivors.

[00:03:09] I'm playing devil's advocate.

[00:03:11] Ambient?

[00:03:12] I think mental illness for me, it affects your day-to-day living.

[00:03:19] And I don't know that thinking about committing suicide does that.

[00:03:24] I think it's really tough because we haven't come to a conclusion about what mentally ill is.

[00:03:30] Elizabeth?

[00:03:31] I can think of many instances in which choosing to take your own life is actually the most sane, compassionate, healthy thing to do.

[00:03:44] There's research-based evidence to back me up on this.

[00:03:47] Like, there are people who would fit into the category of thriving, maybe, in life, and then choose to take their own life, choose to end their life, choose to commit suicide.

[00:03:59] Now, this is where it comes into relativity because there's always going to be somebody who's going to disagree.

[00:04:05] It's a good thing, right?

[00:04:06] We don't want all of us to fucking agree.

[00:04:08] Well, I mean, I actually think that there might be a situation in which where everybody, you know, all of humanity kills themselves is maybe would be a healthy choice.

[00:04:22] Now, Elizabeth, you said, and I'm curious, Ambien, on your thoughts as well.

[00:04:26] Elizabeth, you said that you can think of many examples in which taking your own life is not necessarily the right thing to do, but a what?

[00:04:33] Sane and perhaps compassionate.

[00:04:35] And this is so fucking raw because it was just last night that there was in this room myself and three siblings and a sister-in-law.

[00:04:46] Anyway, my brother, who was 21 years old at the time and was suffering from severe acute schizophrenia delusions, and the delusions were telling him to kill us.

[00:04:58] And he had been journaling about it.

[00:05:02] He had talked to his best friend about it.

[00:05:04] And he was really struggling, like actually struggling with the thoughts of wanting to kill us all.

[00:05:12] He chose to kill himself.

[00:05:13] That might sound horrible to you guys, but what I'm saying is that it is not an unlikely scenario.

[00:05:21] It's a scenario that in fact has played out in reality.

[00:05:25] And all you have to do is search the news over the years where somebody specifically with schizophrenia kills people because of, you know, in my brother's case, it was that Satan was telling him that he wanted David to kill us.

[00:05:42] It was this battle between good and evil.

[00:05:46] Yeah, it was a very real thing in my life.

[00:05:49] And so there's one personal example.

[00:05:52] If you're suffering from horrible pain, some diagnosis of cancer or something that's a very terribly painful thing, and your death is going to be this long, protracted, drawn-out death.

[00:06:05] And everybody in your life is like suffering because you're suffering.

[00:06:09] And this has also happened to me.

[00:06:11] You know, it was also something that came up at my family reunion where I was like, if I could go back in time and I had Sean's magic pink and purple pill and I could give it to my mom, I would have done it.

[00:06:21] Because she was in so much fucking pain.

[00:06:24] She was miserable.

[00:06:26] She was absolutely miserable.

[00:06:27] And it went on and on and on.

[00:06:30] Nobody should suffer that.

[00:06:31] No human.

[00:06:32] I mean, if you're a compassionate person and you care about people, why would you want someone to suffer?

[00:06:38] Why would there be anything wrong with that?

[00:06:39] And why would that be considered ill?

[00:06:42] It's just that I know there's a lot of religion that comes into play and beliefs about that.

[00:06:47] And then there's like a lot of other, you know, there's the possibility that they're going to miraculously get better and all those things.

[00:06:56] Some people would say, and it's a fair argument that like we are born not to die.

[00:07:01] We are going to die.

[00:07:02] The default, the natural setting is to live.

[00:07:06] Survival, of course.

[00:07:07] Survival, like it's just the most basic biological thing in the world is to survive and or procreate for survival, blah, blah, blah.

[00:07:15] So some people might say, no, like regardless of your, and I am getting a little personal here, your mom's being, it's not natural for her to want to die.

[00:07:28] I don't agree with that.

[00:07:31] So I agree with Elizabeth.

[00:07:33] The one counter argument that kind of popped up into my head was that experience that the person is going through is not theirs alone.

[00:07:43] By dying, they're taking that experience away from the other people who may learn something through it or gain some knowledge or insight into themselves or their world or whatever.

[00:07:55] But by cutting it short, they're taking that away.

[00:07:58] And yes, that is a painful experience that none of us want.

[00:08:03] But would you be the same person you are today if you hadn't lived through that painful experience?

[00:08:09] Yeah, thank you.

[00:08:11] That is actually something I've given quite a lot of thought to.

[00:08:14] I guess my default mode setting right now is toward autonomy and personal responsibility.

[00:08:22] And I do think that we're all going to learn.

[00:08:26] There is no way to avoid suffering.

[00:08:28] Like if you are born in this world, before you die, you're going to suffer.

[00:08:33] Side note, I would prefer that instead of everybody being obsessed with how to be happier, I would love to see us as a culture be more obsessed with how to decrease suffering.

[00:08:45] And so I think decreasing suffering for everybody, we're not going to get around the inevitability of learning hard lessons.

[00:08:57] We're not going to be able to avoid going through hard things that are going to teach us things and we're going to grow.

[00:09:05] I mean, I've gone through a significant amount of personal traumas, you know, even unrelated to the things I've talked about.

[00:09:13] In fact, the tattoo on my arm means like there is a lesson to be learned in every hard thing we go through.

[00:09:21] I just don't think.

[00:09:23] Okay, so it's a counterfactual that we all jump into to be able to say like, well, if I hadn't gone through that, I wouldn't have learned the lesson that I learned.

[00:09:32] Well, right.

[00:09:33] In hindsight, I think that that's a reasonable way to look at our suffering.

[00:09:38] But I'm willing to wager that had we not gone through this particular thing that we're thinking of when we say that, we still would have learned.

[00:09:49] We're going to learn shit.

[00:09:50] There's 8 billion people in this world.

[00:09:53] There's no way to get around.

[00:09:54] Well, I mean, like I doubt to a much lesser extent still deal with this thing that comes and goes.

[00:10:01] Maybe an autoimmune thing.

[00:10:03] We don't know.

[00:10:03] And I've said to people who oppose that idea, I'm like, yeah, I could have learned this lesson struggling for one year with this thing, not 20.

[00:10:11] I would have learned that shit.

[00:10:12] Would I have learned it as well?

[00:10:14] Maybe not.

[00:10:15] But it was enough.

[00:10:16] But there is truth in what Ambien's point is, is that definitely the hardships we go through help us sometimes anyway.

[00:10:25] Some of us helps us to build character.

[00:10:27] But there's also the fact that sometimes it's too much.

[00:10:32] And I guess there's this old adage you'll hear a lot is like, especially from religious people, they often say that God will never give you more than you can handle.

[00:10:42] I hate that.

[00:10:44] That's absolutely ridiculous.

[00:10:46] I think it's a fallacy for us, but it is a convenient counterfactual to hold on to.

[00:10:52] But I think it's a fallacy to think that like we wouldn't have the character we have today if we didn't go through those particular hardships.

[00:11:00] I don't think I needed to be, you know, sexually molested by several men in my family.

[00:11:07] I don't think I needed to be raped.

[00:11:09] I don't think I needed to be in abusive relationships.

[00:11:12] I don't think I needed to, you know, like there's so many fucking things that I didn't need to go through.

[00:11:18] You know, helping both my mom and my dad die.

[00:11:21] Long, drawn out, painful deaths.

[00:11:24] Like, I just don't think that it built any character in me.

[00:11:28] I think there's a tipping point and then it starts chipping away your resilience.

[00:11:32] I feel like my resilience at age 51 is being whittled away by some fucking force that continues to think I need more hardship.

[00:11:46] Deanna?

[00:11:47] You know, I'm riding it.

[00:11:49] I'm riding that line.

[00:11:50] My uncle is dying, so I get to watch him like actively in hospice.

[00:11:54] And it just highlights for me how I want to have agency and autonomy over my own end.

[00:12:00] And I'm absolutely going to kill myself someday because what I'm watching him go through, I don't want to do that.

[00:12:06] I don't want to die with strangers.

[00:12:07] Like end of life care is all they do is give you morphine.

[00:12:10] So he's not getting any food.

[00:12:12] He's not getting any water.

[00:12:14] So he's essentially dehydrated and starving to death.

[00:12:17] And that's such a shitty way to go.

[00:12:18] And I'm like, no, I'm not doing that.

[00:12:20] I'm walking off that cliff.

[00:12:22] But I'm going to have some agency and autonomy and integrity.

[00:12:25] Want to come back to that original question about mental illness and suicide.

[00:12:31] I think if you asked 100 people, that it would be kind of split.

[00:12:34] Maybe not this group.

[00:12:35] I don't know.

[00:12:36] I don't think it's a mental illness at all.

[00:12:38] I feel like it's a very rational, reasonable, well thought out component of somebody who wants to have some agency and autonomy over their life.

[00:12:46] I think we all go through life.

[00:12:48] I was listening to Elizabeth's conversation about some of the wounds that we carry.

[00:12:53] I absolutely agree that the things that we go through, people have all kinds of platitudes.

[00:12:59] I also know the scientific research that says trauma shrinks the hippocampus.

[00:13:03] And so we incur brain damage through all the trauma that we experience.

[00:13:07] Yes, we have neuroplasticity.

[00:13:08] But it also goes the other way.

[00:13:10] And sometimes our brains don't grow back.

[00:13:13] And we just have to sit in that space and make the best of the situation that we have.

[00:13:18] So I don't know what side you're on on all this, Sean.

[00:13:21] But I would say no.

[00:13:22] People who are contemplating this or want to do this or this is their reality, I don't think they're mentally ill.

[00:13:28] I don't feel like I'm mentally ill.

[00:13:29] I feel like I'm being completely rational and logical and looking at the trajectory of my life and going, yep, that's what I want.

[00:13:36] It gives me hope and it gives me something to look forward to.

[00:13:39] And it gives me a compressed time period in which I can say, okay, I have these finite number of years or Christmases or whatever.

[00:13:46] What do I want to do with them?

[00:13:48] How can I make them what I want them to be and stop giving my life away to other people who, in the end, don't give a shit?

[00:13:55] Because then it begs the question, well, if there's illness, then what does wellness look like?

[00:13:58] And I think that's a very relative term because by whose definition and whose standards, right?

[00:14:05] We have very Western American, white heteronormative cultural lenses that we put over everything.

[00:14:13] And so it's by those definitions by which we judge what is normal or what is typical and what is atypical.

[00:14:19] And I would argue that if you look at other societies throughout history from an anthropological lens or an archaeological lens, you see all of this spectrum of different thought processes, of different uses of substances and plants and medicinal herbs and sexuality.

[00:14:36] And like it's all in a spectrum.

[00:14:38] And it's only when we look at it through our modern cultural lens that we are like, yep, this is wellness and this is illness.

[00:14:45] And I'm like, by whose standards?

[00:14:46] At what point is an illness an illness?

[00:14:49] And I'm not suggesting biology has to dictate that.

[00:14:52] But, you know, the example I gave was like if you take a otherwise healthy person and put them in solitary confinement for five years and open the door, you are going to see 99 times out of 100 somebody who comes out and presents as mentally ill.

[00:15:08] And then you could extend that idea to, well, you're not in solitary confinement, but you're lonely a lot.

[00:15:14] Well, you're not in solitary confinement, but, but, but, but, but if someone's bipolar, they're bipolar, they're schizophrenic.

[00:15:19] Okay.

[00:15:20] I'm not taking anything away from that in any way.

[00:15:23] But yes.

[00:15:24] And I would say that genes are switches for proteins, which are then switches for expressions.

[00:15:31] And really it is the environment that triggers those on and off switches.

[00:15:36] So you could have a genetic predisposition for cancer or bipolar disorder or, you know, whatever.

[00:15:43] It's the environmental impacts on those genes and the gene expression that then defines whether those genes get turned on and off.

[00:15:50] And I think we just have so much collective trauma and so much shit, especially if we are awake and conscious and, you know, experiencing life that in and of itself, those things push those buttons and create the expression of those genes.

[00:16:05] Are there people that no matter what their environment was with at least doctors, diagnoses mentally ill?

[00:16:11] No matter what they were born that way.

[00:16:13] Like if you have a genetic predisposition to be six foot five, but you are kept in a box as a child and you are undernourished, you're never going to reach that height.

[00:16:23] And it's all of the environmental impacts.

[00:16:25] It's the malnutrition.

[00:16:26] It's the compression of your body.

[00:16:28] It's all of those pieces that then will influence whether those genes get expressed for that height or that strength or that whatever.

[00:16:35] So with the exception of, I think, like Huntington's chorea, there are very few diseases or disorders or pathologies that are solely genetically.

[00:16:46] That's it.

[00:16:46] If you have this marker of this gene, you're for sure going to get it.

[00:16:49] A whole bunch of other confounding factors that lead to the expression of that gene.

[00:16:53] So bizarre for me, and maybe it's my relationship with words.

[00:16:58] I take things typically pretty literally.

[00:17:00] Okay.

[00:17:01] So I'm like, why are people talking about all these fucked up like behaviors and symptoms and all these things?

[00:17:10] And they're using this umbrella term as mental health.

[00:17:12] And they actually say this phrase, suffering from mental health.

[00:17:17] You're suffering from a mental illness.

[00:17:20] Does it not sound a little better to say you're suffering from mental dis-ease?

[00:17:26] Hang on.

[00:17:27] In that same interview you did, in the same conversation you had with Alyssa, you pointed out the fact that everybody wants to just be comfortable.

[00:17:36] You're not suffering from mental health.

[00:17:38] That's it.

[00:17:39] So we're playing with a few different ideas here, which includes words or nomenclature.

[00:17:44] I prefer illness over disease.

[00:17:47] The way you're enunciating, it will never go that way.

[00:17:51] Damn it.

[00:17:51] You always take her side.

[00:17:53] Well, let me ask you this question.

[00:17:55] Of the four humans in this room, raise your hand, Ambien.

[00:17:58] We can't see your hand.

[00:17:59] If you have, suffer from, deal with, navigate, whatever else, a mental illness.

[00:18:06] Ambien, raise your hand.

[00:18:08] Elizabeth's got half hand up.

[00:18:10] Two, maybe none.

[00:18:11] Deanna's a clear no.

[00:18:13] Sean's not putting his hand up, but he kind of wants to.

[00:18:17] I've got a diagnosis, but what is that?

[00:18:18] I mean, that doesn't mean anything.

[00:18:20] The word suffering is an interesting term because I think being in the disability community, that rubs the disability community all the wrong way.

[00:18:28] Yeah, yeah.

[00:18:28] So if you say somebody is suffering with cerebral palsy or diabetes or mental illness, people get all kinds of pissed off because they're like, I'm not suffering with anything.

[00:18:37] This is just part of my identity and it's part of who I am.

[00:18:40] Words are powerful and interesting.

[00:18:41] But to answer your question, yes, I have a diagnosis, but sometimes I feel like it's my superpower.

[00:18:46] Well, we were talking, and I used an extreme example before about like, well, mental illness, and then somebody creates this powerful piece of music, which is, I don't know, it was an extreme sort of almost anomaly.

[00:18:57] I think it's more common.

[00:18:59] Like, I think a lot of the greatest art comes from people who, I'm not going to say suffering.

[00:19:05] That's everybody's personal subjective experience.

[00:19:09] What one person's other person might find joy and pleasure in.

[00:19:14] Yeah, I think that a lot of creativity comes out of struggles.

[00:19:19] You know, like when you're grappling with something and it's like fire in you that you wouldn't ordinarily have.

[00:19:27] Well, Deanna, you didn't put your hand up.

[00:19:29] If I reframe the question from mental illness to mental dis-ease, would you be more likely to put your hand up?

[00:19:36] Really?

[00:19:36] I feel like I might be the odd man out here.

[00:19:39] Like when you said suffering, it didn't even register me the negative connotation.

[00:19:44] I just took it literally like, am I dealing with an illness?

[00:19:49] And I think that that sensitivity is growing in our culture, and I don't like it.

[00:19:56] Right.

[00:19:56] What do you mean?

[00:19:57] The sensitivity to the words that we choose.

[00:20:01] Weird, because we don't really have other ways to typically communicate other than words, right?

[00:20:08] That's what language is.

[00:20:09] I think in my episode, actually a number of times, I kind of prefaced what I was saying with this was the correct term back in that day.

[00:20:19] And I hate that that's where we are.

[00:20:21] Like I can't just, you have to consider all of the different things before you speak.

[00:20:26] But anyway, that's just a side note.

[00:20:28] I think it's an important headline.

[00:20:32] It's actually not even just a side note, because I think if anything, and I will apply the word suffering, I think culturally, globally, we are suffering the consequences of language, like misunderstanding and assumptions being made and sensitivities and all of it.

[00:20:54] And then they're just, they're words.

[00:20:55] And both words have power.

[00:20:57] However, but also at the end of the day, there's really nothing a person can utter without guaranteeing that somebody is going to misperceive it or misunderstand it.

[00:21:07] Like it's just a given.

[00:21:08] And I think we just need to be more gracious, myself included.

[00:21:12] I mean, I'm saying like, I want to be more gracious, short of creating a new language.

[00:21:18] Totally create a new language.

[00:21:20] New language.

[00:21:21] I'm all for it.

[00:21:22] People have tried that.

[00:21:23] It's called Esperanto.

[00:21:24] It didn't work out so well.

[00:21:25] Exactly.

[00:21:26] I think part of the struggle is relationship, right?

[00:21:29] Because I think words have a place.

[00:21:31] It's the relationship that those words are contextualized within that give those words meaning.

[00:21:37] So you can say, I love you.

[00:21:40] Love you.

[00:21:40] Okay.

[00:21:41] But if you're in a relationship with somebody and you say, I love you, right?

[00:21:45] Like that's an entirely different, like ones like off the cuff, flipping.

[00:21:49] It's the same words.

[00:21:51] It's the same words by the same person.

[00:21:53] But the relationship context, prosody, the cadence, all of those things are what overlays

[00:21:59] the meaning.

[00:21:59] And I think what we've done a really good job in modern society is erasing the power

[00:22:05] of relationship.

[00:22:06] That becomes challenging because then we struggle with communication.

[00:22:11] I don't think it's a different question, but it's one I want to bring up.

[00:22:15] And it's the only other one I want to bring up with you all this evening about words,

[00:22:19] words about political correctness or wokeness or whatever else, which have their place.

[00:22:26] I'm not immediately discounting the idea of those things.

[00:22:31] So Elizabeth used the word, the idea of we can't say committed.

[00:22:34] People challenge if you say committed suicide, it's got to be completed suicide.

[00:22:38] What's the idea here?

[00:22:40] Feel like it's around the idea of being questioned and or almost silenced about word choice and

[00:22:48] that the words matter more than the idea behind the words.

[00:22:52] And I'm not saying it's good or bad.

[00:22:53] I just know for me in the podcast, perhaps go out of my way not to honor that.

[00:22:59] I'm like, fuck that.

[00:23:01] You as the guest say exactly what you want.

[00:23:03] I'll just go first, I guess, and just say the only thing I have to say about that is

[00:23:07] that I think what it all comes down to for me, probably changed my mind, but is explanatory

[00:23:15] knowledge.

[00:23:16] Like I said, there isn't anything you can utter that you can guarantee that the person on

[00:23:23] the receiving end is going to receive and process and then comprehend the way that you

[00:23:31] intended it.

[00:23:32] And so there's so much margin for error.

[00:23:35] We are constantly just like blah, blah, blah.

[00:23:38] And there's no time to even just like process that one little word.

[00:23:43] So I think that's why I'm a big advocate of this concept of explanatory knowledge.

[00:23:50] If you can't explain what you're saying, you probably shouldn't say it because they're

[00:23:57] going to be questions.

[00:23:59] There's going to be like as many people that heard it, there are going to be at least that

[00:24:04] many questions about or their perception of it, the way that they receive.

[00:24:11] Hopefully they would be willing to listen and you would be willing to explain.

[00:24:15] And this is called human communication and relationship.

[00:24:19] It's how we're supposed to grow, learn and evolve.

[00:24:22] Language is evocative, right, Sean?

[00:24:24] And I think when you talked about the art analogy, I think there is some definitely some similarities

[00:24:29] because art is meant to evoke, right?

[00:24:32] It's an evocative medium, just like music, just like language.

[00:24:36] Language is nothing more than syllables and sounds meant to evoke ideas and thoughts and feelings,

[00:24:44] right?

[00:24:44] And so again, I'm going to take it back to the relationship side because if you have a relationship

[00:24:48] with somebody, but the person that you're communicating with, you fuck up, they can call

[00:24:53] you and say on that and be like, hey, you know what?

[00:24:55] What you just said hurts my feelings or it doesn't land that way.

[00:24:58] Or did you mean to sound like a total asshole?

[00:25:01] Because you kind of sound like a total asshole, right?

[00:25:04] But that's couched in relationship so that you can have that communication and be clear about

[00:25:09] it and then say in response, yeah, I did kind of need to be an asshole or no, I totally didn't

[00:25:15] even think that it would land that way with you.

[00:25:18] And I'm really sorry.

[00:25:18] Or I had no idea that this was going to be so provocative for you and upset your sensibilities

[00:25:24] or whatever.

[00:25:25] It then goes back to relationship and it becomes challenging.

[00:25:29] And I think people need to own their own stuff.

[00:25:32] And if things are being evoked within them, they need to do some, their own internal dialogue

[00:25:38] of like, hmm, why is this coming up for me?

[00:25:40] What is being unearthed?

[00:25:42] And is that, is that a function of this person is just bringing this up for me?

[00:25:48] Or is this something resonating from the past that, you know what I mean?

[00:25:53] Like, so just owning their own shit in that moment.

[00:25:55] I think people do a really good job on putting their own shit on other people.

[00:25:58] And that kind of frustrates me.

[00:26:00] What I meant, I brought up social media earlier, but I want to bring it up again only because

[00:26:05] it reminds me when you talk about the idea of everything essentially comes down to relationship.

[00:26:10] I think social media really does.

[00:26:13] I was going to use a compromise, but I'm super cognizant of words right now, given what

[00:26:18] we're talking about.

[00:26:19] Like it just fizzles that shit.

[00:26:22] But yet the platform exists and the space exists so that I can share XYZ, the relationship

[00:26:28] isn't there.

[00:26:29] And I think there's a weird fucking thing going on with that.

[00:26:32] Well, it reminds me of, so we all have mirror neurons in our brains, which essentially are

[00:26:37] what advertisers use to get us to want to buy Coca-Cola or a Big Mac or whatever.

[00:26:42] But it's also what, you know, porn stars do to get us all excited when we watch pornography.

[00:26:48] Again, it's, it's a medium that we're watching, but to your point, Sean, it's not really real,

[00:26:53] right?

[00:26:53] Like these people who are having this sex or having this interaction or just killed that

[00:26:57] bad guy.

[00:26:58] Like that's not really real.

[00:26:59] It is, but it isn't.

[00:27:00] And for us to expect that our lives are going to unfold, like the things that we see on social

[00:27:05] media or on television or in the movies creates this false narrative of what our lives should

[00:27:11] be like, because our brains look at that and go, Oh, that must be what reality is.

[00:27:16] And why aren't I experiencing that reality in that way?

[00:27:19] It's like, because it's not really reality.

[00:27:21] It's all painted and orchestrated.

[00:27:24] And they've got lighting technicians and like a whole bunch of other shit.

[00:27:28] Your life is real.

[00:27:29] Like your life is gritty and smelly and sweaty.

[00:27:32] And, and it's real to your point that that would be my thing on social media and some of

[00:27:37] the struggles of those pieces.

[00:27:39] There are people listening all around the world.

[00:27:41] It might be Estonia.

[00:27:43] It could be Malawi.

[00:27:45] It might be New Zealand.

[00:27:47] It could be fucking the boring United States.

[00:27:50] But I say that because three of the four of us are here.

[00:27:52] By the way, I mean Canada is more boring.

[00:27:55] It's just fact.

[00:27:56] You want information.

[00:27:57] It's a little more boring than our country.

[00:27:59] Any other thoughts about the idea of mental illness being one who ends their life is mentally

[00:28:06] ill and or words around all of the things that come up with respect to this, particularly

[00:28:12] words that are feeling uncomfortable or bullshitty or whatever else.

[00:28:16] Yeah.

[00:28:17] I just wanted to kind of mirror what both other ladies said.

[00:28:22] And I find that the people who have been guests on this podcast are open and think a

[00:28:29] little bit differently, which is what intrigued me into membership.

[00:28:33] Thank you.

[00:28:34] I'll schedule another one of these soon enough.

[00:28:36] I hope you're alive.

[00:28:37] And I mean that when we come back.

[00:28:40] Would you say otherwise if you weren't?

[00:28:42] I don't know.

[00:28:43] I would be honest.

[00:28:44] I got nothing to hide.

[00:28:45] Life's too short for me to bullshit people.

[00:28:47] I spent a lot of my time putting up facades for other people.

[00:28:51] Fuck that and fuck them.

[00:28:52] I'm going to do what feels good for me.

[00:28:54] Ambien, in a month or two, do you think you'll be here?

[00:28:57] No.

[00:28:58] For somebody who has spent a good amount of their time having conversation with suicide

[00:29:04] attempt survivors, there are moments where I'm not quite sure what to do or say, but

[00:29:07] I'm okay with that.

[00:29:08] I guess I would just ask, is there anything else you want to share that you want to kind

[00:29:12] of put out there in the universe before you depart from this plane that you want us to

[00:29:18] at least hear or bear witness to?

[00:29:20] No, but I wish that there were more of these kinds of conversations in my life, I guess.

[00:29:27] Hmm.

[00:29:28] But it's ambient.

[00:29:29] I will drive up there if you don't want to be alone.

[00:29:33] One of the things I've learned or perhaps been reminded of in the last four years is like,

[00:29:39] I don't think people take themselves out if they're not in a whole lot of pain.

[00:29:43] I suppose my parting words, Ambien, and I don't mean necessarily parting death,

[00:29:47] just parting meeting is like, if nothing else, I hope there's a way for you,

[00:29:52] your pain to be relieved in even the smallest of ways, you know?

[00:29:55] And I apologize if that sounds trite or glib or another word I'm probably not using correctly.

[00:30:02] Thank you.

[00:30:02] You're welcome.

[00:30:03] And thank you.

[00:30:04] Thank you for your honesty and thank you for showing up and thank you for all of your contributions

[00:30:09] because you've made this night very special, I think, for all of us.

[00:30:12] Thank you, Sean.

[00:30:13] Thank you, Ambien.

[00:30:15] And thank you, Deanna.

[00:30:16] Charcoal!

[00:30:17] It's so good.

[00:30:18] Good night, folks.

[00:30:19] Thank you very much.

[00:30:21] Ciao.

[00:30:22] Bye.

[00:30:23] Bye.

[00:30:24] Bye.

[00:30:25] As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support.

[00:30:29] Special thanks to Elizabeth, Ambien, and Deanna.

[00:30:33] Thank you very much, ladies.

[00:30:35] If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you would like to talk, please reach out.

[00:30:39] Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or X, at least for now, at Suicide Noted.

[00:30:45] Please check the show notes to learn more about this podcast, including our membership.

[00:30:50] What you heard, this conversation on this episode was a members meeting.

[00:30:55] We have these kinds of conversations and sometimes I release them as special episodes and I want

[00:31:01] to do more and more of that.

[00:31:03] And one way to do that is to have more members.

[00:31:04] So if that's your thing, if that's your jam, check it out.

[00:31:07] However you are involved or support, thank you.

[00:31:10] And that is all for episode number 237.

[00:31:13] Stay strong.

[00:31:14] Do the best you can.

[00:31:16] I'll talk to you soon.