Sheri in Washington

[00:00:00] Like at first I was just shocked to hell that you were letting people say this because so much of us feel that way. It's not like surviving any number of suicide attempts. Just because you are still alive doesn't mean that you still want to be alive.

[00:00:37] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough and when we do talk about it, so many of us suck at it. So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors in large part to help more people in more places hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone.

[00:01:07] Now if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out. Hello at suicidenoted.com. You can check the show notes to learn more about this podcast including our membership, the Noted Network, among other things. We're now fiscally sponsored which means we can accept tax deductible donations meaning you can deduct it from your taxes and grants. So we are on the hunt for funding. We've got so many good ideas to expand this podcast and expand its impact in 2025 and beyond.

[00:01:37] Really appreciate your support, whatever that looks like. And oh by the way, you can rate and review this podcast. It really helps people find it and we want more people to find it. Finally, we're talking about suicide on this podcast and me and my guests, we don't hold back. So please take that into account before you listen or as you listen. But I do hope you listen because there's so much to learn. Today I am talking with Sherry. Sherry lives in Washington and she is a suicide attempt survivor. Hello. Hey, how's it going? It's going all right.

[00:02:07] How are you doing? Not too bad. It's a very un-Seattle day. It's nice. Glad we're connecting here. Yeah. Thank you so much for the time. How is it that two of us are talking here about this particular subject? How did we get here? Well, I guess logistically, I found the podcast a couple months ago. I was searching on Spotify for just anything that had to do with suicide, suicidal ideation, you know, attempts, that kind of stuff.

[00:02:36] I found a couple like single episodes from other podcasts that were helpful, that were cool to listen to. And then yours was the only one that I found that was just completely about this.

[00:02:46] And giving a really safe space for people to talk very freely, you know, without any of the kind of direction, you know, or the influence of like, don't do it or, you know, like any of that shit, which I think is like what a lot of people in my position who have been on the podcast probably feel as well. Also, just, you know, again, like talking very frankly about it. Because like you say in the intro, like we don't talk about this enough.

[00:03:16] There's way too much of a stigma. And especially for those who are still around to talk about it. It's scary for us. It's scary for the people who hear it. But I want to be part of that collective voice that helps kind of say like, I'm a full human being. I'm not just being suicidal or having suicidal ideation. Sure. Weird transition. But how many suicide attempts do you have? I've had two, like what I consider serious ones, like landed me in the hospital.

[00:03:44] I've had countless near attempts in kind of my daily life. Like I'll always think about like if I'm driving on the highway, you know, I'll think about like spinning the wheel. I don't walk across overpasses because I'm just way too tempted to jump off. Right. I don't go on rooftops for the same reason. I'm on a lot of medication. And so there's been a number of times that I'll take out all the bottles and kind of line them up and just stare at them.

[00:04:13] And of course, want to take them all. And then I don't. But then overdosing on medication was the two methods that I used. A tough question, Sherry. Is there a why? I would say the overarching reason is that I'm just fucking exhausted. I feel like I have been fighting this like kind of Sisyphean uphill battle my whole life. I remember wanting to die when I was like in elementary school.

[00:04:39] So it's very rarely necessarily like I want to hurt myself and I want to, you know, like go out in this bloody like disaster. It's more like I want to just not be here anymore. I got it. Yeah. You said you started first when you were in elementary school thinking about it. Mm hmm. Little girl. This is some years ago. You're whatever. How old? Do you want to share your age or no? I'm 49. So we're going back a few decades. Yeah.

[00:05:06] And you remember thinking this way as a little kid. What is that like? Is it like I want to die or I want to disappear? I feel like it changes as we get older a little bit. So my parents were incredibly abusive alcoholics. You know, the ACE scores. I have an eight out of 10. Poverty, abuse, alcoholism, predispositions, like chemical predispositions towards things. Yeah. So bringing, you know, being brought up in a really abusive, you know, alcoholic household. Yeah. Like I said, like early grade school.

[00:05:36] And I just remember like another random afternoon that I, my parents beat the shit out of me for any particular reason. I mean, it could be like not doing a chore or it could be, you know, kicking the dog or something like that. And it would be the same level of abuse all the time, which was really intense. I became like, when you think about like Al-Anon kind of archetypes, I was the fire. I have a older sister.

[00:06:02] She tried to be the perfectionist, you know, which never works because an abuser is always going to find a reason. I was the fighter. I always fought back no matter what I would, even though I knew I would never win it. I physically would try to fight back. Also did a lot of self-abuse and this was, or self-harm. And this was something that my mom told me about more when I got older, that even when I was like three years old, that I would have these big outbursts and I would like hit myself

[00:06:31] and like claw at my face and throw things and just scream and all this stuff that has continued my whole life. So when I was a kid and I remember feeling like that, I remember very clearly it was after, you know, like a punishment and I'm screaming, you know, I'm crying, I'm exhausted and everything. And I told my mom, I wish I was dead. And she said, no, you don't. So that's the first time I remember it.

[00:06:56] And I remember like being, I think maybe in early middle school or maybe late elementary school. I remember talking to some other kids at school and I don't remember what the conversation was, but somehow the idea of wishing you were dead or something like that came up. But I realized like, oh, not everybody thinks this way. And it was kind of shocking to me. I was like, doesn't everybody just want to die?

[00:07:23] So I think that kind of was a big moment in making me realize that I was very different and there was something going on in my head. But also it was, I knew that I could attribute it a lot to the way I was growing up and the way I was living. So my sister's four years older than me. When I was 12 and she was 16, she started self-harm like cutting and she had an eating disorder and things like that. And my parents kind of found out about it and they took her to the local psych ward.

[00:07:52] The lead psychiatrist there who was kind of running the program and stuff, he was like, okay, you can't hit your children anymore. We can call CPS. That was good sort of. I mean, of course they just kind of transformed the abuse into other stuff. He also said, okay, the whole family needs therapy. He said, I needed therapy on my own, which in theory is good, except that he was like just the biggest piece of shit in the world. So my sister goes in, she's there for a couple months.

[00:08:22] She comes out and everybody considers her cured or fixed or whatever. She would tell me later on that she just did the game. She just did what they wanted her to and she got out. When I was 12, again, just another random fight at night. And my parents were like, okay, that's it. You're going to hospital. Like we're going to go fix you too. So like at 12, I didn't know what the fuck I was doing in there. I was there for about two months. So while I was there, there was that same psychiatrist. Okay.

[00:08:50] So one of my memoir titles is one of them is you're not going to believe this because there's a lot of like shit that happened to me that is just so like outward limits that it sounds like it sounds crazy. So when I was in this hospital, it was, you know, the psych ward of a huge like regular hospital. The rest of the hospital had basically shut down. They were getting bought out or something.

[00:09:16] And so the adult and the adolescent psych wards were the only things that were still open at that time. So it was kind of like, you know, the movie where you, when we would walk to like the cafeteria for meals, there were like dark hallways and shit. And it was just, it was so bizarre. And it sounds scary. Oh, it was so fucked up. But on the other hand, I liked it because I wasn't with my family. You know, it was like a fucking vacation for me.

[00:09:44] In retrospect, I feel like there was maybe just kind of this letting go of policies and maybe people not, you know, like other staff members, maybe not doing or tending to things that they would otherwise. I don't know, maybe it was always like this, but this psychiatrist like had the biggest like power complex. He, for whatever reason, like locked into me. And so in the beginning, he would lock me into a room with him for an hour every day.

[00:10:14] I don't know if the door is actually locked on the inside, but he would put this chair in front of the door and sit in it. Most of the time I would just scream every curse word I knew at him. And he would just sit there and he would laugh at me and he'd be like, is that the best you've got? You know, like shit like that. Sometimes I would just go in there and I'd just be quiet. I'd just be silent for the whole time. I was definitely not going to work with him. And the staff would say, you've got to work with him.

[00:10:41] You know, you're never going to get out of here unless you, you know, use the program and all that, which is true in theory, but not with this guy. During the time that I was there, I did kind of start to talk to him a little bit more because I was like, you know, how the fuck am I going to get out of here otherwise? But the ways that he would talk to me about like, what's going to happen when I get out, like what is going on with me or whatever.

[00:11:07] It was all about like, how am I going to manipulate my parents and like really fucked up shit and how I was only going to be able to trust him that he was the only person who could have, you know, like this kind of like driving this wedge. And then in the meantime, what I found out later is that, you know, he would call my parents on a very regular basis and just say that like, there was no hope for me and that I was going to need to stay there and all this shit. And they trusted him because of my sister.

[00:11:37] And so, you know, they were getting this message that like I was unfixable and he would like come in at like midnight sometimes and they'd wake me up and send me, take me to a room with him for an hour. It didn't make any sense. So one night we go into this room, he sits in the chair in front of it. I'm like in fight mode. So I'm, you know, screaming, yelling and all that shit. And I decide, fuck this. And I get up and I go over to the chair. Well, first I tried to push him out of the chair, which is impossible.

[00:12:05] And he just like laughed at me and he's like, what are you going to do? Blah, blah, blah. And so then I tried pushing the chair out of the way. And I like stepped away a little bit and he said, if you ever try to touch me again, I will slam you against the wall so hard and so fast that you won't know what hit you. I just like, I was crying and I don't really remember what was said after that, but I just like went and I laid down on the couch that was there and I had my back to him and I was just crying and crying. He was quiet.

[00:12:34] Sometimes I don't know how much detail to get into with this, but he sexually assaulted me. He never actually touched me. You know what? Actually I have to go back a little bit. Like after we screamed and fought or whatever, he did actually physically grab me. And that was when he said, I'm going to throw you against this wall so hard and so fast, you know, that you won't know what hit you. Then he was behind me and he had like my arms pinned. This was one of those nights where he woke me up at midnight and brought me out of bed.

[00:13:04] And so I was wearing pajamas and he did start putting his hand like up my shirt and I think down my pants a little bit, but not a lot. And then I don't know what stopped him from that, but he did, you know, maybe it was more of me fighting and crying. I don't remember. But then what's really clear is that when I went to lay down on the couch and had my back to him and he basically jerked off behind me.

[00:13:30] I kind of knew what masturbation was, but I like just enough that I kind of understood what was going on. And I was just fucking paralyzed. After that night, he stopped making me go sit with him in a room every day. He would kind of did what he did with everybody else was, was like a check-in every couple days or three days. I don't know why that changed. I don't care. How am I going to fucking understand what's going on in this person's mind? I mean, he's like pure evil.

[00:13:59] Anybody ever find out about this guy? I never told anybody. He did say at one point, you know, he said, you know, you can't tell anybody about this because who the hell is going to believe a crazy fucked up little kid over the, you know, amazing psychiatrist, right? That was at 12. At what point do you, so when do you get out? Uh, yes. About two months later, because the hospital was actually shutting down, like they were like, we got to get everybody out of here.

[00:14:27] They had a common thing they would do with kids where you would write up a contract with your parents and it would say, here's all the things that I agree to do. Here's what I could be punished for. Here's what my rewards would be. You know, it's a great idea, but with my family, I mean, I'm set up for failure. It doesn't matter. And it was like, every time you make an infraction, you get grounded. I was grounded for months ahead of time.

[00:14:54] Again, like the physical abuse did stop. But of course that meant that the emotional and mental and like psychological abuse just ramped way up. I should throw in there that my parents were both heavily, like very abused as well. I mean, it's not like this came out of nowhere, which doesn't excuse it. And it also made me feel even more like, how could you possibly hurt this child of yours

[00:15:21] and make them cry and scream and pain and cause bruises? And it's one of the reasons I never had kids. Some of that will probably trickle down. How old were you for your first attempt? 16. So you're going through your teenage years. I'm pretty sure they're rough. At some point at 16, you try to end your life. Is this one of the main, is this what you call one of the serious ones? Yeah. I think I was on that track of going towards more serious stuff. Like I was doing the typical things.

[00:15:51] I was flunking out of school. I was using every substance I could get my hands on. I was cutting. I was, I had a really good friend and she and I would actually like cut together, like do it to each other. Because like, sometimes I couldn't, I couldn't do it to myself completely because I just couldn't like press down hard enough on my own. Everything just kept getting worse and worse.

[00:16:17] And then one night, so I had been put on some medication, like an antidepressant earlier that year. And I just never took it because the doctor was like, if you do any drugs or any alcohol on this, you're going to die. You know, which is like the scare tactic. Right. And I was like, well, I'm just not going to fucking take the medication then. And so I had kind of stored up. And so this one night I was like, I, it was a night where I went to private school and my

[00:16:46] parents, you know, parents had to go get your report card, you know, so they knew exactly what was going on. You couldn't fuck with it. And they come home that night and it's the big fight. You know, I have like a two point something, you know, they're like, you're grounded forever or whatever. So I get on the phone with that friend of mine and I said, tonight's the night, like I'm going to finally do it. And she said, you know, she's like, okay. She's like, I'll see you on the other side. Okay. So what happens? So I took all my pills.

[00:17:15] I went to the medicine cabinet and I took everything else I could find in there, but it wasn't nearly enough. So I, you know, went to my room, I laid down and I was like, just waiting for myself to pass out. And it just wasn't happening. So I got up, went into the kitchen where my mom was and I, well, I tried to, I fell down and I was, she told me later, I was like kind of having a seizure. And so she like kind of, and I was kind of coming in and out.

[00:17:42] I think I said like, you know, either I took all my medication or, you know, something along those lines. Like I told her what happened and I'll always remember, she said, she's like, great. You know, John, my dad, now we have to call the ambulance. So they did, I go to the hospital, they do the charcoal, all that good shit. My parents just disappeared. I woke up in the morning in that fantastic pain of having charcoal in your stomach. And the nurses were like, you know, we're trying to get in touch with them.

[00:18:12] We're leaving messages, whatnot. I mean, this is in the eighties. There's no cell phones or any of that. I was just alone all day in that room. Just had no idea what was going on. And I'll never forget waking up and feeling like, fuck, I fucked that up too. Like I couldn't even do that right. All right. What happens? What happens after that? So after that, I went into a psych ward. The therapist who ran that program was like, I credit him to being the person who helped me save my life.

[00:18:40] He was the best therapist I've ever had. He was amazing. You know, he ran this program. He had a great reputation for kind of working with teenagers because he just, he wouldn't take any bullshit, but he also had a very like delicate approach and he would, he would definitely temper it to each person's personality. So he was pretty like, he was a little harsh with me sometimes because he needed to be to kind of like get in there.

[00:19:05] And then once he did, I kind of, I was a little more broken down and I really trusted him to, you know, help me. You know, the, everything else in that program and the hospital was really fantastic. Wow. I don't hear that too often. So that's great. And it just happened to be the one that they sent me to. I spent only about a couple of weeks inpatient and then like four months outpatient. It happened towards the end of the school year. So it was in there all summer.

[00:19:34] He did a group therapy and I stayed in that like through my early twenties. Oh wow. All right. So you were in it. Oh, I loved group therapy. It was like, you know, everybody has their shit, right? That there's their big obstacles. And there's always somebody that you can say like, oh wow. Like that's not one of my big ones. So like you can offer some advice and you feel like, you know, I don't have everything wrong with me. And then they can do the same thing.

[00:20:03] You know, like everybody has that opportunity, which is super powerful. When, when you got, so you were 16, when that happened, you stayed in the group therapy for several years in that time. And perhaps predating that from when you were younger, are you regularly ideating? I mean, this is like a regular part of your life. At that time. Not so much. I really did make the decision while I was there to like, I'm like, I'm going to get shit together. I don't want to end up in the hospital another four years from now.

[00:20:31] I sobered up, lost all my friends, got back into school and kind of like took it seriously, got my grades back up, all that good shit. The new friends I started to make were not the ones that I had before, of course, not like super straight laced or anything, you know, just, I don't know, a little more normal. Yeah. So I graduated feeling pretty good. Went to college was, everything was like, okay.

[00:20:56] I did get to a point where I think I was about 20 and I was telling, you know, my therapist, I was like, everything is going good. And I still want to die all the time. And his theory was that, you know, there's these things you got to take care of in your life. Like you need to work on like, how's family, how's your job or school or whatever you're occupation is? How's your relationship with yourself, your physical body, like all these different things.

[00:21:25] And he's like, if you feel like you've got those things going pretty well, but you still just want to die. You still have all this stuff going on. And that's the time for medication to come in. He was very big into CBT. So he put me on Paxful, which like fucking saved my life. It was, I was suddenly just like, so it was like the, the big doomy cloud over my head finally went away. I was great. I was fucking fantastic.

[00:21:55] Then, um, I met a person who would become my husband. We moved to New York together. So that was really cool. But once I was there, you know, I didn't have insurance or anything like that. Like a lot of people, I was feeling like I'm fucking great. I can go off my meds. Of course that doesn't work. Not only just in general, but I found out later that Paxful is one of those drugs when people would go off of it, even if they did it like under the supervision of a doctor and all this

[00:22:23] stuff, it was one of the worst medications to come off of for like the longterm. Like there were a lot of suicides as a result of it. Like it was a thing. Everything was awful. Everything went straight back downhill. So you go off the Paxful. Does that marriage last? Uh, it did. We were together for 26 years. How old are you for the second serious attempt? Oh, that was last year. Okay. So late forties. Forty eight. So you're in New York in the late nineties. You have, you make it to Bay Ridge.

[00:22:53] You're with your artist boyfriend or husband eventually. So from your late twenties to late forties, what's going on there that, you know, essentially to simplify my language leads you to a second attempt. New York was hard living on me. I finished art school out there, which was fantastic. It's the best fucking place in the world to go to art school. But then when I finished and it's like, I got to get a job, we got to pay bills.

[00:23:18] It's like, we make more and more money or our life gets, you know, like objectively better, but we're still living hand to mouth. We decided to move. And my husband, uh, as a programmer. So Seattle was like a great place to go. We came out and visited for a weekend. We fell in love with it. Enough city for us to have all our creature comforts. But like, we live on a tree line street, you know, in the perfect neighborhood and all this

[00:23:47] shit, you know, during that time in New York, really, I was in therapy the whole, like in and out of different therapists. Most of the time, I really didn't want to go back on medication because I was like convinced that I could do it myself. But of course I couldn't. In addition to like the suicidal ideation and the depression and anxiety, the self-harm never went away. And so these like huge outbursts where I'd hurt myself and hurt everything around me. Yeah.

[00:24:16] That was still happening. It would ramp up when shit was worse and I was more stressed out, you know, and nothing's terrible all the time. I had amazing periods of time and chunks of time when we were in New York. I mean, so many great memories and that goes through the rest of my life. Yeah. So we're like, we're done with New York. We move out to Seattle. I am 28 at that point. The same kind of thing happened as when I was in high school and that therapist was like, you got all your shit together and you still want to die.

[00:24:46] Let's do some medication. Everything's great in Seattle. I am working in animal welfare, which was like a dream of mine forever. We have this great apartment. We've got a dog, like we get, you know, all the shit. And I still want to drive off the highway every morning when I'm going to work. I go find a psychiatrist. I'm like, here's the thing. She says, great. Let's put you on an antidepressant. Afexor. And it was life changing.

[00:25:13] And I just was like, why the fuck didn't I do this? Why? Why was I putting this off? And I don't think everybody deals with this. Some people are like, oh my God, I'm so glad I found this medication. But I do think there's not a small number of people that are like, I fucked my life up. I could have been on this fucking seven years ago. When Afexor kicks in, because you said it was really positive. Suicidal? I went away. Pretty much went away. It's not like I didn't have lots of depression, but I just felt like, oh my God, I don't want to die.

[00:25:39] You know, my suicidality has most of the time been that I just want to die. I just want to be gone. The committing suicide part of it. I don't really care about that. So it's not what I want. I don't want causing pain to myself. I don't want violence. I don't want to leave behind a big mess for people to clean up. Right. And I had a great therapist at the time too. So things are going great over the course of, you know, a few years.

[00:26:08] It's like the efficacy of the venlafaxin feels like it's waning. So my psychiatrist says, well, we can't really increase that. So let's, you know, try some other things out. So we tried Wilbutrin and Prozac, you know, because she's like, well, those are tried and true. Totally did not work. I became like pretty much psychotic. That, I mean, that's just the medication. Like from what I've, it either works or it doesn't.

[00:26:37] And when it doesn't, it really fucks you up. It's risky, man. Risky. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'd been seeing that psychiatrist for about four years and she was also my therapist. She kind of just ghosted me when this happened. I mean, and I, of course I was completely devastated, abandoned. And I kind of reached out to friends of mine who I knew, you know, were on medication and whatnot, found somebody else who could get me in really quickly.

[00:27:07] She wound up being fantastic. She's like, let's go back on the Effexor and then we'll add Lamotrigine. That made a big difference. It helped a lot with my, the self harm. I wasn't doing so much anymore, but it helped calm stuff down a little more. It definitely was, it was additive. And then it was kind of like go through these things and like slowly plateau. Then she retired, recommended a guy to me who's now my psychiatrist.

[00:27:34] And can you talk to him or them about suicide? I never really was honest about having suicidal ideation because it feels like people only see you as that. Like that's the only thing I can be identified by. And it's like, no, that is happening. But so are all these other things. I did have the experience of feeling like having some symptoms treated actually reached

[00:28:01] part of the cause or reached down into that suicidal stuff. So I feel like I know it's possible. And so we just got to keep tinkering with pills. I'm fine with putting as much into my body as I have to, to feel good. So my new guy says, let's add lithium. You know, he said that even though that's used mostly for bipolar, when it's used in really small doses, uh, in addition to these other, you know, SSRIs or SNRIs, it can be very helpful

[00:28:31] with the suicidal ideation because I decided I got to be honest about this or I'm not going to get real help. It, that was another life changer. It was just amazing. But it's still always this like, you know, ebb and flow. And I was wondering, I'm like, how many medications am I going to have to add? How many things are going to have to increase? Like, is this just my whole life? I'm looking at this uphill battle still having great therapists. Like I'm doing all the fucking work.

[00:28:58] It's just not, it's not getting there. Complicated. Yeah. Having the feeling of like relief is so amazing. And then feeling like it's going away. And so I'm in my thirties, early forties. In the meantime, I had a business that was amazing until it wasn't. That was a time where I was more suicidal than I felt like I was as suicidal.

[00:29:25] Then as I had been when I was 16 and actually tried it. I want to know what stopped you from trying. You did say earlier when we started talking, you had countless near attempts. When I asked this question, I'm not implying, Oh, I wish you had tried at all. What I'm just simply saying is you're struggling hard. You had already had an attempt, so it wasn't completely new territory. What do you think stopped you? I started calling the suicide hotline on a pretty regular basis.

[00:29:51] I also had, you know, but I was like, I can't do this to my friends and family. But then ultimately what it really came down to was I can't do this. This person has been with me. He's supported me for at this point, 20 years. There's no way I could do this to him. Do you speak with your parents then? Not really. What about your older sister? Uh, no, we stopped talking probably in my early thirties.

[00:30:19] And your husband, how do you think he's dealing with all this? He was kind of a doormat. He just took it and he still loved me. He didn't know what to do. You know, I mean, we had many frank conversations about it. When I would have like an outburst and I had hurt myself, he just would stand back and like, I don't know what to do. And he just wanted to help me. He wanted me to feel loved. He wanted me to feel supported, which I did. And I don't ever think of it as something that like he did or I did.

[00:30:49] It's a dynamic that we built over time. He needs to rescue people. I needed to be rescued. We both know that. Awareness matters. That's for sure. So you're in your early forties, you're on different cocktails, as we might call them. They work. They don't work. They work. They don't work. It sounds like you have these periods where you're kind of in the clear, but you kind of your baseline seems to, I know I'm sounding psychobabbly. I don't mean to. Is kind of maybe suicidal. Yeah.

[00:31:18] And so when you're in your early forties, you're still in Seattle because you're still there now. I believe last year you, you try. Through my early to roughly mid forties. I'm just struggling. I don't know what the fuck to do with my life career wise. We'll get a shitty job here or there. My husband makes a lot of money so he could support both of us, which was like wonderful,

[00:31:43] but then also meant that I could just do nothing, which is great for depression. Yeah. Like you said, my baseline is feeling suicidal. Well, when things are good, they're like at a two or three because my baseline is like negative seven, you know? And then when things are bad, they're like way down there. One of the things that really changed is that I felt like, well, when things are good,

[00:32:11] now's a great time to end it because I don't want to stick around for it to get shitty again. But you did not do that. In probably like just two or three years, three really good friends of ours committed suicide. Wow. And they all had families. So I got to see how much it fucked up the people who were left behind. And so that was another part of like, I can't do this. That started to breed resentment towards him.

[00:32:40] There were, you know, things that were starting to like transition in our relationship. I still loved him, but I didn't like him anymore. I didn't want to be around him. Part of this was during COVID. We bought a house during COVID. I thought that's going to change things a lot. Didn't at all. If anything, it made things worse because it was smaller than our apartment because it was the only thing we could afford. And so it was like, we were upping each other's shit anymore.

[00:33:10] I got a couple of really amazing jobs. I kind of transitioned into nonprofit that was dealing with like people who are unhoused or experiencing severe poverty and needing like resource and like food security, especially. Fucking love it. I still volunteer in that a lot. I had two amazing jobs in that field and both of them. This was at the beginning of 2023.

[00:33:40] I don't have a job to go to. He's home all day. I'm going fucking insane, you know, getting more and more depressed. And my depression definitely turns me into more of a homebody. One of the things he's very extroverted. So one of the things that was always kind of a helpful dynamic for us is that, you know, he would go out and I would have the place to myself. And so that was like a really regular and helpful thing in our relationship. And then, of course, that ended during COVID.

[00:34:09] And even when things opened back up more, you know, it was just different. We lived in a different neighborhood where he couldn't just walk out the door and go to like his choice of 20 different bars or wherever the hell he wants to go. I should add in there that he and I have always been drinkers. We both come from families that have alcoholism. We always knew that we're kind of like playing with fire a little bit. And we would do things like, oh, we'll take a month off.

[00:34:36] But moderation was never something that either one of us are good at. But we're both very high functioning alcoholics. Basically, 2023, you know, moving into 2024, like our relationship is just going to shit because I'm not working and I'm not expected to. My drinking just goes through the fucking roof. Basically, the pattern was that there was a bar about four blocks from us that, you know, super dive bar that we loved and we'd go to her constantly.

[00:35:05] My regular routine was like sleep till noon, do some random shit around the house, whatever. Wait until two o'clock when the bar opens, go to the bar, start drinking. He would usually come over after work. I wasn't eating, which is, you know, a common alcoholic thing. And I was drinking too until I couldn't stand anymore. It's not like I was drinking till I'm drunk and then being like, oh, I'm going to, you know, drink some water or whatever. Like I drink till I pass out.

[00:35:33] So one night I'm there, I order like my fourth. And the minute I touch it, I knock it over, get hysterical. And I'm just like crying and blah, blah, blah. And I run out of the place and I go home. And that was the night. I just said, I was like, tonight's the night. Pulled out all my pills like I had done several times and I lined them all up. And I had pretty fresh prescriptions of my, you know, Fetzer, Motrigine, Lithium.

[00:36:01] There was like a new bottle of Tylenol. I had some leftover like Oxy and other stuff from a surgery. And I was like, this has got to do it. This is going to fucking do the trick. And as I was taking them, like I was looking down the bottle and I was like, here you go. The final fuck you and I'm letting you go. Like you're never going to leave me. It doesn't matter how much I fight with you. It doesn't matter how much I hurt myself. Like you're never going to leave. So here we go. And, you know, I take everything.

[00:36:31] I leave all the bottles lined up on the dining room table so that like whoever comes will find out like this is what I took or whatever. And then I go in the bathroom and I shut the door and I just lay down and I, you know, like let me go, let me go and pass out. So during that time I was like, you know, in and out of consciousness, everything's coming out of all ends. I remember it so clearly, which is really weird. But I remember I was like, okay, my body's not going to fucking die. Like I got to call 911.

[00:36:59] I get my phones in the bedroom. It takes me, I don't know how long to like, you know, come in and out and finally like crawl, get in there. One of the things that was pretty wild is that there were three moments when I was conscious where I was there. He was like standing above me at one point and he has his arms folded and he says, are you finally happy now? Like, look what you did. And then walks away and sits down in the couch.

[00:37:28] And then there's another time when I get to the bed and I'm freezing and I can't get up on the bed, but I like pull the sheet so I can get something on me and he keeps pulling it back. I finally get up on the bed. I'm like trying to call, I'm just like hitting the phone, you know, cause it eventually will dial whatever. 9-1-1 picks up, but I can't speak. The next time that I come to the bedroom door is shutting and it was, was like, would you just shut the fuck up?

[00:37:56] And he shuts the door and goes back into the living room. I realized later, these are all hallucination. He was never home during all of this. That's how much my brain was like, Jesus Christ. That's where my brain was. That's how convinced, you know, I was that like, this is that we are completely like just not together anymore. That's wild. Okay. What, uh, what happens next? When I do finally come to, of course the EMTs are there. They, you know, get me a stretcher, blah, blah, blah.

[00:38:24] Uh, he ended up coming home right when they got there. They take me to the worst hospital in town because it's the one that was closest to home. And then of course I go to the psychiatric ward, which was amazing. Really fantastic program. So, and they actually do a thing where it's only three to five days, which I thought I was like, what the fuck can you do in three to five days? But you wake up and you're in group all day. It's just a very interesting model. And it works while I was there.

[00:38:53] Like I was still kind of detoxing for a day, but then like, you know, see me every day for the first time I can ever remember. I actually am glad I'm alive. And I really felt it. You know, I, I was like, I can't believe, I guess like I created some kind of blank slate. I don't know what the fuck I did feel like, I was like, my body's just not going to die. So I better deal with this. Let's make it happen.

[00:39:16] And the social worker who I really like connected with, she said, so why 35 years later did you suddenly decide and why did you use the same method? Had the same question myself. I don't know if there's a part of my brain that was like, maybe it still won't work. Like maybe that's why I went with pills again. I definitely entertained so many other methods and every single one of them, I had a reason not to do it.

[00:39:45] And that was over years. You know what I mean? Like if I jump off the overpass, I will definitely die, but I will cause accidents and somebody else could die. People could, you know, get hurt. You know, I'm not going to do that. If I go jump off a bridge that is a guaranteed death, they're not going to find my body. You know, how's that going to work? Like, you know, things like that. So it was like, I would always find a reason. So yeah, I felt great. I was like, this is it.

[00:40:11] And then a month later, I left my husband because we were still fighting like cats and dogs doesn't even begin to approach it. And again, it was like part of that suicide attempt was to get rid of him, you know, was to be like, this is the final. This is the only way I can end this. To his credit. He has helped me out immensely, you know, financially.

[00:40:38] It is about as amicable as I think a split could be. When was the suicide attempt? That was on December 15th. Okay. Last year. And then in January, you split, you find another place, you're still in Seattle. But two months ago, you look for something with suicide on Spotify or wherever it was. I mean, the suicidal ideation and everything is, it's, it comes back. Good meds, very regularly talking with my psychiatrist, all that.

[00:41:06] But you know, six, whatever months ago, I stopped being honest with him. I don't tell him that I'm having this anymore. I don't tell my therapist that I'm having this. There's other great shit happening in my life. You know, like I've made a bunch of new friends in my little neighborhood here, which is fantastic. I've got a new partner who's really wonderful. I still don't have a fucking job, but I am able to wait to find the right thing.

[00:41:35] Because again, the financial support. In the meantime, I'm volunteering a lot so that I don't feel useless. You know, I drive for Lyft, which is, I oddly enjoy. Things are good for a while and then they just start getting bad again. And it's like, you know, and I'm again, I'm like, okay, the job thing is really weighing on me. So yeah, I start, I start thinking about it again.

[00:41:59] And I'm Googling, you know, methods and things like that because I'm like, well, if I'm going to do it again, I gotta make sure it works. I am not going to be coming out on the other end of this alive and dealing with that fucking shame and embarrassment of still not being able to do it. Again, I'm not a gun to the head girl. You know, I don't want to overdose again because I'm not going to risk that not working.

[00:42:27] You know, I think of stuff like swallowing, you know, like taking a can or a jug of bleach or liquid plumber or something like that. Right. But I'm also not convinced that I will be able to drink enough to kill me before I just start vomiting or whatever. You know, I just, I'm thinking all this stuff. And then I find out about helium inhalation.

[00:42:47] And apparently a woman out in California several years ago, like in the nineties sometime, she came up with, it was like assisted suicide, but not in the legal way. And her like kind of thing or whatever, the whole company that she made was right to die. And she would sell these kits. Well, she doesn't sell them anymore, but you know, it's like, you know how to do it now. I was like, God, this is amazing. I had no idea. Yeah. And so this is like maybe in September.

[00:43:15] And I was like, that's what I'm going to do. And it's going to happen. And I felt so relieved and so resolved. So like at peace. And I started my plan. I've never planned like this. There was, you know, the other two things, it was like, I know I'll do it at some point with the other two attempts. But when I did, it was impulsive. But this time I, you know, I was like, well, I don't want to leave anybody in the lurch.

[00:43:44] I want to make it as easy as possible for the deal with shit. Cause he's going to be the one that falls on the most. I made like, like Excel sheets of like, here's my passwords. Here's all this shit. You know, I started closing down some accounts. I wasn't doing this thing where I was giving stuff away, but I started taking a bunch of shit to Goodwill. And I just was like, you know, I can stop trying. I can just let go. And that felt good.

[00:44:13] But also I was like, I got to wait because I'm going to wait till after the holidays. Cause I'm not going to do that to anybody. And it also gave me time to plan. Right. Got a few months. And my plan was that I would do it at night and I'd go in the bathroom. Like I even had shit planned out where like, I was going to get like an adult diaper so that they didn't have to clean up my shitty, pissy body. Cause that happens when you die.

[00:44:38] So I'm basically a marking time and I'm feeling like I'm going to enjoy as much of my life now as I can. You know, I'm going out to, uh, my, my current partner's family has this beautiful house out in Bend, Oregon. And we're going to go out there for Christmas. It is like a guaranteed white Christmas. I'm really looking forward to that. And like being like, yeah, I'm going to have these amazing, like last experiences. And I am in them. I'm engaged.

[00:45:07] I'm not feeling like I'm checked out already, but I am keeping the secret, which is like, feels good in some ways. And then also, of course, I'm like, I can't believe I'm going to do this to these people. What's, what's the date? So I made it for January, like, I think it was the 19th or something. It was, I was going to do it on a weekend. I wanted to make sure that like, like, you know, free or whatever, like available for whenever I make this call.

[00:45:35] Was going to spend like the two or three days beforehand. I was going to just tell like, you know, the only person who I really talk to like every single day is my partner. So I was going to tell him like, Hey, I just need a little space right now. You know, then I would be like, okay, I'm going to get as much shit out of the apartment as I can. So they have less stuff to deal with. Like all this stuff that I can make happen in a few days. Yeah, I'm set. This is what's happening.

[00:45:59] And I'm listening to podcasts and I'm reading things and I'm kind of just consuming everything I can about suicide. Almost as though I need convincing that I want to still do it. And then I find your podcast. I don't want to say that like, you know, your podcast saved me because I don't think there's, this is going to come back. I don't think that I'm ever going to live a life where I don't have times where I want to die. That is what's in my brain. That's what I live with.

[00:46:26] But after listening to like, probably like a dozen episodes and I was like, I'm going to reach out to this guy. I want to tell my story too. And one of the things that I alleviated by some things was listening to people say, here's all my experiences. And then I'm still planning on it. And I was like, that is so like, at first I was just shocked to hell that you were letting people say this. Because so much of us feel that way.

[00:46:54] It's not like surviving any number of suicide attempts. Just because you are still alive doesn't mean that you still want to be alive. But I was like, so I want to be part of this voice, this collective voice. And once I emailed you and actually scheduled it, it kind of went away. And I got really nervous. And I was like, you know what? I don't think this is actually what I want to do. Not a total light switch moment. Of course, it's still there. And now I'm just like, okay, how am I going to live with this?

[00:47:24] And how long do I want to live with it? You know, I'm 49. I'm past mid-age or midlife. So I don't want to grow really old. I feel like, yeah, probably in my 70s I'll do this. You're not going to believe this is one memoir title. Says you. What's the other one? Keeping the Noose Loose. I've been writing that all year. Oh, you're literally writing it? Oh shit, I want to see it. Wow. Or read it, I should say. Keeping the Noose Loose, you're not going to believe this. How many people know that we're talking?

[00:47:54] All my friends. Oh, wow. This is public. I've already talked over the years. I have been open about the fact that I deal with suicidal ideation. I post things on Facebook a lot. And so many, whenever I do, you know, and I'm like, hey guys, can you tell me not to do it right now? Oh. And people are like just massive, massive comments. And everybody's like, I've been there too. Or I have had family who've done it.

[00:48:22] So many more people can relate to it than I ever would have thought. And does this include your partner? Does he know? Yes. And nobody knew or knows about the plan that I had a few months ago. So that's going to be news. But everybody knows that I'm doing this. I've been like, I'm really looking forward to when it, you know, drops and I can share that with people. Actually today I'm having a get together with people to celebrate the one year.

[00:48:52] Wow. You know, it is literally a celebration of life. What day of the week is January 19th? I think it's, it's a weekend day. I can't remember if it's a, yeah, I think it's a Saturday. So people know you're talking. It sounds like some people know about your attempts. You said friends. So, and given the context in which you just talked about them, it sounds like though, please tell me if I'm wrong that you have people to talk to and you can actually use the S word. Yep. That's kind of nice. It is. It really is.

[00:49:21] I think that's another part of listening to your podcast that, you know, kind of was a little light bulb moment in my mind was so many people said, nobody knows. I'm doing this. And I'm like, wow, I actually have a lot of people who I can tell. And that means I have that many people who already know. And that's a lot. That's a big something, but I want more people to know. Do you have any diagnosis that you think are accurate?

[00:49:49] Well, you know, depression, anxiety, all sorts of other shit. A few years ago I did TMS. The psychiatrist there, you know, you do like a 90 minute, you sell like 40 pages of paperwork. You do a 90 minute interview and it's with a psychiatrist, not just like an intake person. And she, you know, I'm telling her everything. I'm being totally honest. And she was like, has anybody ever brought up borderline personality disorder? And I was like, no.

[00:50:17] And I always thought that was like, great, great, great. I didn't really know anything about it. And so she brings out like the DSM five, every fucking thing. I was like a hundred percent. That was really helpful because I start, you know, again, I was like, I always knew it was more than depression and anxiety. I was like, there's something else going on. That was it. It kind of like fit all the other puzzle pieces in. When's your birthday? October 14th. You got a ways to go before 50.

[00:50:46] If we were talking a month ago, you were not making it to 50. And now you are. Probably. I mean, but from what earlier, honestly, 50, 50 to 50. That ain't a memoir title. Are you kidding me? Fine. You're the boss. It's your fucking memoir. But okay. 50, 50 to 50. Wow. That's a little corny, but I like it though. That'll be a chapter. A pink and purple pill question. I'm going to tell the audience because we have some new listeners. I hope wherever you are. Thank you for listening.

[00:51:17] I give Sherry a pink and purple pill. She takes it. She goes to sleep nice and peacefully. She dies. No one knows it's a suicide. I'm going to give that to her right now from North Carolina to Washington. Magically. What do you do with that pill? Obviously I've thought about this right now. I would say it's 50, 50, keep it or take it. Okay. Okay. You're going to keep it today. So you're not going to better store that shit somewhere safe, but you're not throwing it out. Nope. What flavor would it be if you did want to ingest it?

[00:51:46] I like watermelon gummies. Let's go with watermelon. Watermelon gummies. Watermelon. Pink and purple pill. Okay. Some of these might've already come up, but myths or misconceptions you want to dispel. Okay. I'm a big fan of language. I don't say that I am suffering with suicidal ideation or that I'm battling it. I live with it. Mm-hmm. You know, we all do. Nobody is attempting suicide because just one day they wake up and they're like, oh, this is it.

[00:52:16] Like we fucking live with this. You know, anybody who's trying or doesn't, you know, succeeds with it has been sitting with it and living with it for a long fucking time. I feel like some of the, some of this bullshit of like you're being selfish. You're not thinking of others, blah, blah, blah. No, we have thought of others. I have fucking agonized overthinking of others and I'm so fucking sick of it. When I get to that point, you know, or when I got to that point, I was like, this isn't

[00:52:45] about anybody else. This is about me. I think that making the decision to not want to die or at least to, to try to be there. That's really hard too. You know, it's not like you come out of this, you know, even if you are a person who doesn't still actively want to die. It's not like you're just, it's all wiped away. You know, this is still there. It's cancer.

[00:53:11] And I feel like you just, it's every single person's decision, every person's call, how much you want to treat it before you just say, no, like it's eaten me up inside. It's going to kill me one way or the other. I get to, maybe I had to choose how it happens and when. I should add, you had said one of your memoir titles is you're not going to fucking believe this. And I know you did not include a lot of things about your life. You couldn't in this period of time, but I had believed everything you said 100%.

[00:53:41] At some point, this podcast episode is going to come out. People are going to hear it. A lot of people you don't know. Some people you do. Now that's not going to be, that's not today though. So I am just wondering, and remember the idea that I wouldn't say this podcast episode lives forever in the interweb, but it's going to be around for a while unless you ask me to take it down, which I could, I would, of course. Do you want to say anything to anybody in particular, it could be more than one person, including yourself, who hears this episode some weeks from now?

[00:54:09] The biggest thing I want to say to everybody else is this is the truth. This is the real truth. One of the things that I am a little bit apprehensive of is the reaction that I might get from my friends when they hear that I had a plan again, because I'm like, what if they're going to, you know, do that thing where they're like, they give me the ultimate side eye and they're

[00:54:37] like, I don't want to fucking, you know, cause it's that then is that my idea identity? Is everybody going to be tiptoeing around me? Because that, you know, whatever, what I hope people, you know, understand, you know, the reason why I am exposing that part of myself and giving this information is because it's not all of me. And I hope that I'm also reminded of that when I listen to this, cause I will, I'm looking forward to listening to it.

[00:55:05] Like it's not all of me, but it's there, you know, and it's always going to be there and that's okay. Is there anything else you want to share before we go back to our lives? Me in Chapel Hill, you in Seattle. Yeah. This was part of the, like, you're not going to believe this, the doc, the evil doctor. So I'm four years later. I'm with the amazing therapist after I tried to kill myself the first time he sits down, we're doing our big, like intake session. I'm giving him my whole blah. This is my whole life.

[00:55:35] I tell him about that, you know, stint in that hospital with that horrible doctor. I don't tell him anything like about anything. I just tell him his name. And of course, then, you know, the timeframe and stuff. And he fucking put down everything. And he said, did this man ever do anything inappropriate with you? I still didn't tell him what it was. He didn't, you know, he didn't ask. He was like, you don't have to tell me exactly what it was, but I said, yeah.

[00:56:02] And it turned out he had a class action lawsuit against him at that time from like five or six other women who had seen him. He asked me, he said, you can get in on this if you want. And of course, I was like, there's, that's the last thing I'm going to do. I don't want to see his face again. But oh my God, it felt amazing. Thank you to all these women who came forward. That again, that was one of those, I was like, how could anybody believe this?

[00:56:28] And, and oh, and the reason why he knew this is because he was actually doing some of his residency under that piece of shit at that time. And he was like, that guy's a piece of, you know, he is wrong. He knew firsthand how like messed up this person was. And it was just, and that probably is part of what helped my trust build with this guy. Not long after Sherry and I first spoke, she reached out and we talked again.

[00:56:56] I want to play that part for you now before Sherry and I say goodbye. When I talked about, you know, like the pink and purple pill and like my plans and all that. And I said, it was like 50, 50, like that's bullshit. Like I would take it in a hot minute. I'm a really good liar about my suicidality. You know, I've had most of my life to practice that basically.

[00:57:23] Like I've said that, you know, I'm the most cheerful, depressive you'll ever meet. Still just want to die all the time. Like every minute of it sucks and it's all crap. And so I kind of wanted to come clean about how I even did that with you. That's how much it's in there. You know, I don't tell my therapist or my psychiatrist the truth. Probably not a small number of people do that with me. Once in a while, I'll call them out on it. But, you know, people share what they want to share.

[00:57:50] But we talked, what was it, last week? Or perhaps around last week. So a lot of time has gone by. So I am curious and I want to hear the other things you want to share. Like what sparked you to say, you know what? I'm going to not play the same role I usually play. Basically, because I feel like that's what this podcast is about.

[00:58:14] You know, and if I'm really going to be somebody that other people are going to hear and potentially feel like they connect with and feel less alone and all that, then I need to be honest. Like, what's the point of doing it if I'm not going to be really transparent? Mm-hmm. I think that, you know, obviously, I'm not the only person who masks and lies and all that shit. So, you know, that's another part of what people can probably relate to.

[00:58:44] You know, people who do the podcast, definitely people who are just listeners. Because we all lie about it to some extent. You know, so many people who do the podcast say, you know, nobody knows that they're doing it. Nobody's going to hear it, that kind of thing. I've always been very vocal about my suicidal tendencies and my attempts and my depression

[00:59:07] and all of that in the attempt on just my own little level to reach out to people, you know, like on Facebook and social media and shit. You know, and it's always surprised me how many friends of mine who, like, close or totally distant reach out and they say, yeah, me too. Like, thank you for sharing this. And so it's like, I've done it on my own little individual level and now I'm doing it on a larger scale.

[00:59:35] You know, I get why people are keeping it a secret. I totally get it. And so I do think that's kind of like my unique spin on it, I guess, because people are a lot more accepting than you might think. At least the people that you know, like, you know, your tribe. And I think that, you know, again, the more we talk about it, the more we talk about it. Of course, I think everybody has the same kind of like myths to dispel and all that kind of stuff about that you're weak or all this shit.

[01:00:02] But the other thing I kind of wanted to get in there is that one of the things that's very common is the like, you're not thinking about others and, you know, like it's impulsive or all these different things. And I'm like, anybody who is suicidal has thought about this shit forever, you know, months, years or whatever. I mean, obviously it could happen, but most people are not waking up one morning and putting the gun in their mouth and saying, hey, let's do this. And we think about the people we leave behind.

[01:00:31] We agonize over that. I think it's really common for a lot of people to have that feeling of I got to stay alive for this other person. And I came out of a relationship that I did that for, for years and years and years, you know, build up a lot of resentment and felt like, why am I keeping myself miserable? Just keeping this inside constantly for the sake of another person, even though it's a very

[01:00:57] small kind of, I don't know if movement is the right word, but you know, the right to die philosophy or thinking. I believe in that. Yeah. Not a small number of people I talk to feel the same way. No, listening to like, I haven't listened to all of them, but most of them. Yeah. And I'm still, you know, listening and, you know, so many people are really young. And so there is that part of me that feels like, you know, you should try, give it a shot, seek help, do all that shit. The whole, it gets better movement.

[01:01:27] I'm kind of like, well, maybe it doesn't, maybe it doesn't. Or maybe it gets better for a while and then it gets shittier and then it gets better. You know, it's like, I've had plenty of remissions and I've had plenty of great stuff in my life and it never, it's never enough to kind of bring me up over that. Like keep my head above water. Yeah. Well, we just don't talk. We don't talk about it honestly, because honestly would be what you just said, that it doesn't always get better. Honesty for me would always be, you know what? Sometimes you are a burden.

[01:01:57] You're not a burden. You know what? Ask the people in your life. They probably deep down do kind of think you're, that's a real conversation for me. That's no bullshit. Let's get honest. It's not going to help if we keep fucking candy coating it. And I'll shut up, but I just want to say, sure, if you're really struggling and you're a 14 year old, we could tiptoe around that a little bit. It's going to get better. Right. I mean, you're a kid, your brain isn't, you know, you got hormones up the yin yang. All right. You know, Hey, it's going to get better.

[01:02:25] But you know, you're 30, 40, 50 plus. Come on. Stop fucking around. That's exactly how I feel right now. So, you know, it's like, I have had huge highs, you know, every time my medication changes, you know, it's like, I'll go back up. It's just never enough. And I've tried everything. And, you know, the face of suicidality, the face of depression, you know, all of that, it can look like anything.

[01:02:50] You know, every single person out there is fighting their own battle and you know nothing about it. You know, some of my thought about, you know, all the things that people say like, oh, you're weak. You're not thinking of people, blah, blah, blah. You're God damn right. I'm weak. I am so fucking beaten down, you know, like I can't swim anymore. Push yourself no matter what. Get through it. Life sucks. It doesn't matter. You know, like, and, you know, it does matter.

[01:03:19] And maybe if we pay a little more attention to how much we are hurting, then we can seek more help. And then we're not living quite so much in a society that says you should feel like shit all the time because that's just how it is. You know, it's okay to wave the white flag. Sometimes you got to do it. Endings are always weird with this shit. So I hope your day doesn't suck. That's my optimistic way of seeing the world. Yeah. And yeah, thanks for talking.

[01:03:48] I really, really appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you so much for doing this. My pleasure. My pleasure. Now you're one of them. And now, you know, the same, it's kind of cool. The same people you heard, or at least some of them that, I mean, you know, I'll say the word helped or at least did something for you. You're going to be that for other people. And I know you probably already are in your life, but because it's a podcast, it gets amplified more. That's just kind of one of the things that makes it kind of cool because it's a podcast and you don't have a loudspeaker that can get around all of Seattle. So there we go. Thanks again, Sherry. Appreciate it. Thank you.

[01:04:18] I really appreciate it so much. I'll talk to you. Keep me posted if you will. I will. Thanks. As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support. And special thanks to Sherry in Washington. Thanks, Sherry. If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out. Hello at suicidenoted.com. You can check the show notes to learn more about this now fiscally sponsored podcast, including our membership, the Noted Network, and all kinds of other cool stuff.

[01:04:47] And that is all for episode number 248. Stay strong. Do the best you can. I'll talk to you soon.