Nick in Finland 🇫🇮

[00:00:00] It's tough for me to kind of get perspective sometimes. And so it's like, okay, there's nothing past today and all I've caused is pain and I'm a burden on all these people and with my drinking and all that stuff, that's just gonna be a burden on my kids.

[00:00:13] So I should just end this all so they can be happy. Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories.

[00:00:48] Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough. And when we do talk about it, many of us, including me, we are not very good at it.

[00:00:58] So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors in large part to help more people in more places. Hopefully maybe feel a little less shitty and a little less alone.

[00:01:11] If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out. Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or Twitter slash X at suicide noted. Of course you can reach out for any reason you'd like. I love to hear from our listeners and our supporters.

[00:01:28] As you probably know, you can check the show notes to learn more about the podcast, including our membership. Huge thanks to those of you who support us in that way. But of course I appreciate everybody's support, however you support. So thank you.

[00:01:42] Finally, we are talking about suicide on this podcast and we don't hold back. So please take that into account before you listen or as you listen. But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn. Today I am talking with Nick.

[00:01:56] Nick lives in Finland and he is a suicide attempt survivor. Hey Nick. Hey, can you hear me? Yeah. Let me just open up my notebook cause you know, I write some stuff down as we're talking. Like for example, Nick tried to kill himself. Ask him about that.

[00:02:14] Stuff like that. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, sure. Sure. Basic stuff. Your standard conversation between two guys or you know. See how it goes. I don't know how you feel, but life's a little overrated. Yeah.

[00:02:28] I mean it comes and goes, you know, like some days it's like, okay, this is great. But then I mean for me, yeah, I'm in that place where it's like, well fuck it. I can just, um, I'm just here, you know, you assign, you assign meaning to life.

[00:02:39] And I mean from my experience it's like, yeah, there's no fucking meaning. I can just kind of do these things, you know, and that's kind of where I'm trying to get to. It's like appreciate the things that I have in my life right now.

[00:02:49] Let it unfold and let it continue. For our listening audience who will not be seeing you, I don't think a couple of things that Nick has in his life are very cool glasses, the kind of glasses that are like they're clear everywhere.

[00:03:02] I can see just barely on this red shirt that Nick is donning it's his fat F A T and it might be an acronym or some kind of band or what is that? Yeah, no, it's a, it's a fat records. It's a punk record label.

[00:03:17] Are you a punk? Uh, I guess I used to be, yeah. I identified as for sure. So yeah, I went to a lot of punk shows and you know, getting in a mosh pits and circle

[00:03:26] pits and knocking people over and you know, but I was always pretty, pretty straight lace growing up, but yeah, for, for, for where I was from, like punk music somehow, that's what I kind of got into because it was silly and you didn't have to take it seriously.

[00:03:39] And then, you know, some bands like really talked about some good stuff. So I feel like I would have been a pretty good punk. Yeah. Why is that? I don't know. I just, I feel like I have the, um, what's the word constitution or the, uh, just wanting

[00:03:51] to get shit out, but also appreciating depth and it is a community. Yeah. No, I mean, I can, I definitely identify that as like, you know, kind of growing up, like I grew up in this pretty rural place, you know?

[00:04:02] And so it was like, I never felt like I really belonged anywhere, you know, it was like from this, this small town and like, everybody was like, uh, everybody seemed like a jock

[00:04:10] or somebody, you know, they had things going on and I just had a couple of friends and, um, yeah. And everybody listened to like heavy metal music or some other kind of music. And for some reason, punk punk music kind of felt good.

[00:04:21] But then I started going to shows and I still felt like this is bigger than me and this is not quite where I belong because people were more into it, you know? And I'm just from like this, this rural town. Yeah.

[00:04:32] Then as I, as I kind of got older, I was like, okay, yeah, this is cool. And then you can, you just kind of, you can let go. You can let go and just kind of get thrown around and get kicked around.

[00:04:39] So I have a question and a comment. The comment is thanks for being here and talking with me. Yeah, no, thanks. Uh, thanks for having me. The question is you live in Finland, right? Yes, I do.

[00:04:53] Why is it that if I were to like, if you didn't tell me you were from Finland, you have, I want to say either no accent or a tiny accent, like tiny, if any. Yeah, no, I'm not. I'm not from Finland. I just live here.

[00:05:07] So I'm from, I'm from the U S. Oh, okay. That makes total sense now. Hold on. Where are you from? I'm from Minnesota. So you were moshing in Minnesota? Yeah. In Minneapolis is moshing in Minnesota. Did we already find the memoir title? No, maybe. Okay.

[00:05:24] No, because no, look, if you were in England, if you were in Mexico, if you were in even Japan, I'd say you rarely hear people. And at least I don't who moved to Finland from the U S I'm sure it happens fairly often.

[00:05:38] I just don't hear about it. Marissa, how did you get there? How did I get here? Uh, work originally. So this company that I worked for, I heard we were getting Finland as a client. And so, um, I lobbied to come and work on the project.

[00:05:49] How long have you been in Finland? The company moved me back to the U S and then I decided I wanted to come back here with my, you know, at the time, my wife and my, and my kids and stuff.

[00:05:59] And so I quit that job and I came back. And so I think I've been here about almost seven and a half years, eight years. So then you, so you live in the capital of Helsinki? Yeah. I live in Helsinki. Yeah.

[00:06:09] Maybe we should start a podcast about like, call it two white dudes talk. Nah, that wouldn't make sense. Finland noted in English, there'd be like seven, seven listeners, but only most of them would be like one, like they listened for a few minutes.

[00:06:23] It'd be one or two people in the world who listen really every week. Yeah. Everybody's got a podcast now. Everybody's got a podcast now. I'm happy I found yours. That's a great segue. So how and why, two part question, how and why did you find the podcast?

[00:06:40] Yeah, no, I was in a, in a, in a place where I was not doing well, you know, I was dealing with depression and I was trying everything, you know, and I was listening to different podcasts and things like this.

[00:06:51] And one of my, one that I listened to, I don't know if you've heard it. It's a, it's called the hilarious world of depression. They changed the name to depression mode. Yeah. So it's really, really good.

[00:07:00] But basically they, they tackle depression issues and with a bit of humor, which is something I really, really liked. It's not like this doctor's clinical, here's what you should do stuff. And then when I was really deep in like, you know, in rumination of stuff of, you know,

[00:07:13] suicidal ideation, you know, I was finding these self help things and spiritual things, which are nice, but then I think I found yours and it was just more straightforward people's stories of no, here's how you should do it. Here's this program I was in.

[00:07:25] It was like, no, here's my life experience. So I think I was just searching for it. Yeah. I'm glad you found it. No, me too. Me too. It definitely helped me out just to know like, okay, shit, this stuff that I'm thinking of

[00:07:34] and going through is not unique to me. Yeah. I've learned that this isn't particularly original thought here, but having a conceptual understanding that people are going through something versus hearing it or not the same experiences, you

[00:07:46] know, you know, that people are going through it, but to hear it is different. Exactly. You hear it from somebody's personal story and kind of you connect with that person on the podcast, you know, and it's stuff that maybe you've thought of, but you couldn't

[00:07:59] say to a friend or you couldn't say to anybody, even though like I'm pretty open with my experiences and stuff, you know? And like, yeah, I mean, I had friends who, you know, we would talk about like, yeah, I want to jump in front of that Metro.

[00:08:11] You know, it went from kind of joking to when it hit hard, it was like, no, this is really what I'm thinking. But then to hear these patterns of people, especially on your podcast and kind of repeating

[00:08:21] the same things or they've gone through the therapy and they go through these ups and downs and maybe it's like a death in the family or divorce or something like this. This was what triggers all this stuff.

[00:08:30] And so for me to see like, okay, wait, even though I'm in this depressed state and I have, I do have these suicidal ideations and this rumination, it's a part of this human experience that some people take.

[00:08:41] So it was good to hear that, especially from the, yeah, from the way that your podcast presents it, man. It just, it hit me in the right area. It felt, well, it felt very punk rock.

[00:08:51] You know, it was like, you're doing it the way that you want to do it. So at the end of the day, I really am a punk. Yeah. Do punks identify as punks or do they let other people call them punks? I don't know anymore, man.

[00:09:05] For me to say, you know, actually deep down, I'm a punk sounds weird. Yeah, yeah. I would never say I was a, you know, when I was a kid, I was a punk because I didn't want to identify with anything, but that's the music I listened to.

[00:09:18] And those, you know, I went to those kinds of situations. It's like, do it, do it your, do it yourself, do it your own way. Don't give a shit what anybody cares, what anybody else thinks. Yeah. I, yeah, I see what you're saying.

[00:09:29] I do actually think I'm doing it that way and there's some risk to that. I might have to rebrand everything with the word punk in it though. I don't give a fuck. Great punk guy from Minnesota. What was life like for you growing up?

[00:09:42] I mean, in retrospect, like everything was pretty good. You know, like I had, I had friends, I had things to do, you know, I kind of felt like as a kind of maybe out of place, but I think that's just kind of how I was and kind of

[00:09:55] independent, kind of looking at it now, the patterns in my life. I think that's, I started to build things up with humor and sarcasm, you know? And so that's really what kind of got me through and that's how we related to things and to people.

[00:10:08] And so it wasn't anything bad or anything growing up really, but just this general, I can think of times when I was just like, you know, maybe, maybe lonely and just feeling like I didn't belong, you know?

[00:10:20] And so maybe those things are an indication of maybe just depression or something bigger in my life and in my family, you know, kind of like this generational stuff. Your family Nordic? I mean, that is common in Minnesota. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:10:35] So my family has like Finnish roots and stuff. So that's kind of like what brought me back kind of here. That was that interest in that. So that doesn't make you a Viking, right? No, no. Vikings are from Norway. God damn it.

[00:10:46] I'm so, I got to do my research. But you know, I think, I think maybe, maybe, you know, the pillaging and the, and the, you know, plundering and stuff like that, that I can, I can, yeah, I'm pretty a physical guy.

[00:10:58] So I think I could, you know, raid a village if needed. You can roll with plundering and pillaging. Yeah, of course. That's a pretty quick way to get your ass kicked out of Finland though, if you start ransacking villages in the suburban Helsinki. Yeah, no, that's true.

[00:11:16] That's true. Yeah, they clamped down on things pretty quick. Yeah, I bet they do. How does it roll through teenage years into wherever, where this starts to gain some momentum given what we're talking about?

[00:11:26] Yeah, through my teenage years, like I just, all I knew is I wanted to get out of where I was, you know, like I didn't want to live in that town. I wanted to go, go see the world.

[00:11:36] And so like in high school and stuff, I was pretty, pretty straight laced. And then in college, that's when I started like drinking and stuff like this. And I think it was this, you know, social lubrication.

[00:11:45] And then kind of through my, my, my twenties and stuff, that's when I met what would be my wife and we kind of came together and we did, we did a lot of drinking.

[00:11:53] There was a lot of drinking as I, you know, looking back, there was, there was quite a bit of alcohol involved. So that might've been, you know, I remember in situations where, cause I was maybe kind of shy.

[00:12:04] So then to use alcohol to be more outgoing, be funnier. And also that's just kind of what the, everybody was doing, you know? Yeah. There's a bar on every fucking corner. I mean, Oh exactly. Like what else do you do? You get, you're 21.

[00:12:16] You're like, let's go check out these bars and like, let's go find the dirtiest bars in Minneapolis. The alcohol thing is an interesting thing that, you know, cause if you would said you

[00:12:24] were doing a lot of Coke, like, okay, but you had to be somewhat careful and private about that, you know, in most, yeah, I know there are clubs that don't give a shit, whatever, but in alcohol it's endorsed fully by everybody, everywhere, public, private government. No.

[00:12:39] And I mean, it's like, it's a way of relating to people, you know, for better, for worse, like, like, Oh, what are you going to do? Oh, let's get a beer and then we'll see what we're going to do. So you have a beer.

[00:12:49] And like, for me, like I was, I liked drinking and I drink a lot. And so are you a big guy? Cause you can, not really. Okay. Like what do you know? I do not need to see your body.

[00:13:02] Nick, Nick just stood up to show me he's an average to slightly, you know, average build, but I don't do that on this podcast. My friend that's for only fans. Are you familiar with that site? Oh, of course. Yes. Yeah. That's a different thing. I don't do anything.

[00:13:18] Yeah. Um, the reason I asked is big people cause I couldn't tell from when you were sitting, you know, they can usually drink more. Yeah. But I mean like for me it was something, you know, it was, yeah, with my friends and stuff

[00:13:27] and in your twenties, that's what you do. A hundred percent. You know, looking back to it's like, it was definitely a part of like my family structure and stuff too. That's, you know, we get together, start having some beers. No big deal. No big deal. Yeah. People stop.

[00:13:41] Some people manage and other people become raging alcoholics. Really? Exactly. Yeah. For sure. Which one for sure. Which one were you? I don't think I was a raging alcoholic, but I know I definitely drank way too much as I got into my thirties.

[00:13:52] I got this job and the company I worked for was definitely an alcohol culture. If you go, you know, everybody's going to go out and whoever can drink and drink and drink and hang out with the boss, they're the people who got promotions and stuff. Aha.

[00:14:05] See that I was thinking about that when you said that earlier in my brain went to like I've lived in, I lived in Japan. I had some friends that were in Korea cause I was doing like ESL stuff and those are two really big places to do that.

[00:14:15] You know, that easy to get jobs paid pretty well. It's actually a problem if you don't drink. It's not a problem, but you know, like you just said, there's social capital and I had a friend that didn't drink and he'd go out and it was awkward for him.

[00:14:27] Yeah. And so somebody's like, Oh, let's get a beer. And it's like, Oh no, I'll have a water. Someone's like, Oh, what's going on? Totally. By the way, raging alcohol didn't mean you drank more. It means you're a punk. You're a raging punk who happens to drink.

[00:14:39] Well, no, and that's, that's the thing too. I remember, yeah. Going to shows and just drinking, drinking, drinking, then you, you just slam and everybody's drunk and everybody's smiling and happy cause everybody's having a good time, you know? Yeah. And you chase cause why wouldn't you?

[00:14:51] The alcohol wears off. You want another beer? It's only a few bucks and it's a big fucking ugly can and everyone. Yeah, of course. And there's a cute girl like it's all, it's a perfect recipe to drink. Oh, exactly. Well, no.

[00:15:03] And I think, I think what you said is like, it's the chase, right? Cause you remember that one time that you had such a great time drinking and Oh, me and my friends, we had this time and Oh, we played and we whatever.

[00:15:13] And so then you drink again. You're like, okay, tonight's going to be the same like that. What was the kid thing? Drinking, drinking, drinking. For you, was that in Minneapolis or was that when you were a teenager in the rural areas of Minnesota? No, no.

[00:15:27] I didn't drink in the rural town cause I knew if I started drinking there, I would stay there. Ah, very, very smart. So I was like, I just want to get out of college and then I'll go get a job.

[00:15:35] And then I was like, Oh, Oh, this is how, this is how you make friends. And this is, this is fun. Drinking is fun. You know? I remember like people would play drinking games. I'm like, why are you, you need to lose or win to drink.

[00:15:48] I'm just going to keep drinking and we'll just, that'll be, that's, that's fine. How old is your daughter? Uh, she's 12. And you have two daughters or a daughter and a son? A son and a daughter. Yeah. My son's 15 and then my daughter's 12. And they're in Helsinki?

[00:16:01] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you have an ex-wife? And I have an ex-wife. Do they go back and forth? Yeah, they go back and forth. They just live in the next building over. So it makes it pretty easy. Does she know that her father is talking about suicide?

[00:16:14] Mmm, probably not right now. No. Did she know about her father's struggles? Yes, very much so. She's 12. So son is 15. Son is 15. Does he know? Yeah, 100%. That's, uh, yeah, that's kind of, kind of this crux of how everything kind of boiled up really.

[00:16:32] Are you, how old are you? I'm 45. Oh, you look, you look young. Oh, thanks dude. So how do you meet your wife, your ex-wife? A German bar in Minneapolis. I love it. Basement of a German bar.

[00:16:42] You get a beer and a liter, you know, so that's where me and my buddy would go. Uh, drink beer by the liter and, uh, then they'd have polka dancing and, you know, after three or four liters of beer, I thought I could dance.

[00:16:54] And so, uh, yeah, I danced with her and boom, I had a Sharpie, right? Cause then this was, this was before there were cell phones and stuff. So instead of exchanging numbers on paper, I had a Sharpie.

[00:17:06] And so if somebody wanted, if she wanted my number, so I wrote my number across her arm and then, and she gave me hers and, but she didn't write her name. So she said, if you remember my name, then I'll go out with you.

[00:17:17] And now she lives in the next building in Helsinki. Yeah. It doesn't talk to me. Doesn't talk to you. Okay. So you had two children. We did, which is crazy. Not the fact that you had children, the fact that you can have sex and a human being comes

[00:17:30] out of somebody's body. Yeah. Yeah. That's that. It's a miracle. So someone explained that and I don't need the like evolutionary reproductive biological shit. I mean, come on, come on. Well, yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, yeah, if you think about it, then you see these, these,

[00:17:44] these, you know, people walking around, it's like, wow, you were just an idea. And then we decided to, we're like, let's, let's start to create this thing. Crazy. And then it worked, then you get lucky and it works out.

[00:17:55] And then you're all the excitement and the pregnancy and the way that the woman's body changes. And that was a, that was a fun experience. So when in this whole 45 years of life do you start to think about ending your life? Like seriously? So yeah.

[00:18:08] So I mean, that was, it got, it got the worst. It was, what was it like 2019? When did you split from your wife? About that time. Is it related? Yes, of course. It's not related in like a cause and effect kind of thing.

[00:18:21] It's just more like all these things kind of bubble up. Right. And so, yeah, so like we were, we're here in Finland, everything's going pretty good. I'm working, she's working, but then our son starts to have some, some issues himself.

[00:18:34] And so he would be screaming and he's what, you know, he's like 10 and he starts to want to kill himself. So he starts screaming and he starts like holding knives to his wrists, just asking, asking him to go to bed. And this goes on for a while.

[00:18:50] And so I start to get really, really scared. I mean, there's times where I recall like coming home and like not knowing, opening the door and like not knowing what I would come into.

[00:18:58] And then just like, I remember preparing myself to be like, okay, my son might kill himself. So that was what was very difficult for me trying to be there for him at that time. And then starting to get into trying to get him help. Did he get help?

[00:19:12] We're still in that process. It's tough to, it's tough to explain my own suicidal ideations and really, you know, the times where I was, you know, kind of the attempts that I had without explaining that

[00:19:24] because it's not, it's not, you know, cause and effect, but it is, that's what was happening at the time. Sure. Of course. It has, of course up until 40, I'm imagining things aren't, everything's not just perfectly great.

[00:19:37] Of course you're living and life is hard, but you don't think about ending your life up until about that time? No, not in any serious way. I think that was when, you know, I'm, I'm like, I'm achieving things. You know, getting married, having kids, having great jobs.

[00:19:53] And then I think any sort of depression or anything like that was covered by drinking. Do you have any idea at 10 years old when this seemingly started, like what was going on with your son? I mean, honestly, no. Like looking back, I'm not sure.

[00:20:07] So yeah, we got into therapy. I remember we did like, okay, let's look at his timeline of his life. He was born in Minnesota. We moved to Colorado when he was one years old.

[00:20:17] And then we moved to Finland when he was like six or seven, I think the first time. And then we moved back to the States and then we came back to Finland. So it's like, did he move around too much?

[00:20:29] When he was having those episodes, the things that he would be saying hit me so deeply because there are things that I felt my whole life, you know, he just doesn't want to be alive

[00:20:37] or he's some of the hardest things were when he, it was, it seemed it was directed at me also. He would say these things about his mother, you know, like I hate my life because you're my dad. I want to die because you're, you're my dad.

[00:20:50] And I, that's, I mean, now, you know, that's, that's what was very, very difficult for me to hear obviously, you know? And so like it got so bad that we did take, we, I took him to the emergency room, you know, just to kind of calm him down.

[00:21:05] Cause it's like, I don't know what else to do. He's screaming for three hours. Wow. Yeah. Just, he won't go to bed and he's yeah. I remember the knives. I remember he locked himself in the bathroom. He's like, I'm going to eat all the medicine in here.

[00:21:16] It's like, okay. So yeah, dealing with that. And then just like the, the communication issues with me and my wife just got magnified. That was my perspective. Obviously there's two sides to every story, but yeah.

[00:21:29] So then I remember we got him into therapy and then they also, he went to like a children's ward hospital for like a week. And I remember that being like the lowest point of my life. Like I was like, how could I have let this happen?

[00:21:45] I beat myself up a lot that I couldn't, I couldn't be there for him. I'm going to guess that you still do. Yeah. 100%. I mean that happened, you know, you know, he's, he's doing good. He plays a lot of video games now.

[00:21:55] I'd like it if he was a bit more active, but still like, I'm like, is he happy? You know, what can I, what can I, what can I do for him? But yeah. You think you're a good dad? I do my best.

[00:22:05] I used to think I was a good dad. A lot of people say I'm a good dad. So I do try to listen to them. Your kids' voices have the most weight, I'm sure. Oh yeah. 100%. And it's tough, you know, like, like I've been, I've been through therapy.

[00:22:17] I do all these spiritual practices, you know, to really come into my body, to find the feeling in my body, you know, where it is, where does it feel like when anger comes or loneliness, you know, and how can you really go through life?

[00:22:28] You know, I've gone to, I've studied like this non-duality idea, you know, where there isn't no, there's no separation between mind body. It's just one and everything that we experienced is really only happening for, for no one, right?

[00:22:41] It's just this brand play that we have all this stuff. But if my son says something, everything goes out the window. What about your daughter? Is she, is she experiencing life a little differently? She's experiencing life a little differently. Yeah.

[00:22:55] She's, she has not, she doesn't have, she hasn't shown any of this kind of stuff, but also she's very, very quiet, which also kind of concerns me. But I, you know, I just encourage her to be herself as much as he can.

[00:23:05] And she is wonderful and amazing as my son is. He's also wonderful and amazing, but you know, then the teenage years kind of has to take over and they live with both of you or they live with their mom and hang out with you sometimes. It's almost 50 50.

[00:23:17] So 2019 ideating either starts or gets more, uh, it gets bigger, stronger. It's bigger. Yeah. Take us from how many suicide attempts do you have? I would say two, two real, two, two big ones. Is there such a thing as a small one? No, no, you're right.

[00:23:37] It's fascinating to me that people downplay their attempts. I get it. And that's certainly no judgment, but they're like, but I get it. Like if you, if you took a gun and tried to shoot yourself verse, maybe I took a few too many pills. Those are different.

[00:23:50] I get it for sure. I think for me too, like listening to your show has really helped me kind of accept that in my life too, that, that they weren't little things.

[00:23:59] I try to downplay these things, but like the mental state I was in and the actions that I took though, that was, you know, I fully intended to end my life. Well, you've heard the podcast, you know, that we talk about those attempts.

[00:24:10] So do you want to do that? Sure. So what was the first one? Do you remember when it was and you know, whether it's what happened that day or sort of leading up to that? It was 2020. COVID. Right. And so yeah, COVID, COVID exactly.

[00:24:25] It was like this, this string of things that just, you know, those issues with my son. There was a very close death in my family. It was just too, too much to deal with.

[00:24:35] I was getting some stuff from my ex's house, from my ex's apartment because I'd moved out. Then I was just like, I just want to, to not be here anymore.

[00:24:44] I had had a bag of stuff and I just, I dropped it in front of her place and I texted her. I'm like, I don't need this anymore because I'm, I don't want to be alive.

[00:24:52] I think I had sleeping pills, a bunch of pills and I had a bottle of alcohol. And so then I was like, I just told her I'm going to go kill myself. Why did you tell her?

[00:25:01] If I have to think about it now, probably to just to let her know, probably to cause pain or maybe to, to, to as a, as a call for help. That was that day.

[00:25:11] And I was just, I was, I was not able to deal with like what my life would look like not being married, not having nothing with the kids every day.

[00:25:19] So I think I told her that and I was then, I got on the Metro to go to my place and she followed me. And I was just, I was out of my mind. I was out of my mind. I had everything in my bag.

[00:25:30] I had all these pills. I was just going to take these pills. I was, I was on depression medication, also had medication to help me sleep. So I was just going to take all those. And I had like a bottle of alcohol.

[00:25:40] I don't know if it was whiskey or whatever it was, but I knew a place in the woods that I was going to do it because I'd been thinking about it for a while. Oh, so hang on. When you're on the Metro, you're, and this is in Helsinki.

[00:25:50] This is in Helsinki, yeah. You're on a Metro. Your wife is on like, oh, like in the same train or no? I think she, I think she was in the same train. Yeah. And you're thinking you're not going to go to wherever you would just move to.

[00:26:02] You're going to go to the woods somewhere. The woods were near, I mean, in Helsinki, you can get to the forest anywhere. So I knew there was this place like in this park and, you know, kind of in this wooded

[00:26:10] area that, that's where I was going to go because I had walked through there before and I had thought of it doing it there. How long had you been thinking about it? Because, because, you know, you just said you walked through there and thought it might

[00:26:22] be a good place. Is this weeks or months? Probably months, probably months. That's a long time to be thinking about ending your life and just still surviving, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, cause it was, yeah, like I said, it was COVID.

[00:26:33] It was these, you know, these things that I had done to hurt her, you know, things where I drank too much and did things, you know, where I was, I felt horrible guilt from, you

[00:26:45] know, and I didn't know how I could ever reconcile with her or anything like that or reconcile with the kids. And so I was like, yeah, that's, I don't see, I don't see a way forward.

[00:26:54] And so, yeah, so I was by my, I was by myself in this, in this, in this apartment. I had a flatmate and actually it was, we became very good friends. I'm still friends with him, but yeah, I would go down to the sea.

[00:27:07] I'd sit by the sea and just think of how much food I need to drink to be able to just walk into the sea and not care. Yeah. And just go, you know, it's not a good way to die, Nick. No, no, that's why I never did it.

[00:27:19] Then I started doing the research, like what's the easiest way to do it, you know, and things like this because it's almost impossible to drown yourself. You probably know that. Yeah. Yeah. But I figured enough sleeping pills and enough booze, it would be okay.

[00:27:32] And then even if you somehow wanted to not die, it's probably too late. Yeah, that's true. Cause you're like far out and it's, it's fucking ocean. We're not dolphins. This is the part I love about your podcast. I've heard that too.

[00:27:45] Like other people, you're like, this is how I was going to do it. It's like, well, that doesn't make sense because we talk about everything. I feel like there's space to talk about that stuff as well. Right? I'm not hopeful. Yeah.

[00:27:57] So do you get to the woods that day? Yeah, I do. Yeah. She, she, she followed me the whole way too. And I think then at that point she's calling my, I think she called, she called my mom, I think.

[00:28:07] But then I know she got ahold of one of my good friends and then I talked to him and he was just like, yeah, you know, I forget what he said. I can, I can picture where I was in the forest at the time and stuff.

[00:28:17] She was there. And so I talked to him and he was like, yeah, you know, this isn't whatever he said brought me back. So you didn't, you didn't drink or take the pills at that point? No, no, I didn't.

[00:28:28] Did he say something that, um, cause I'm very interested and I'm curious about a lot of this stuff, but how people deal with other people, engage with them, talk with them and the difference it could make.

[00:28:39] I mean, I don't know if he had any magical words, but did he say something that did make a difference or was it just a buddy showing support? I think it was just a buddy showing support, you know?

[00:28:48] Cause I think it was like, I'd been probably alone that day myself, you know, decided to go pick up some stuff from her and then just her and then seeing our old place and like, okay, I'm never going to be able to come back here.

[00:29:00] And like my, my idea of time was very immediate. I noticed that I still notice that a bit. Like it's tough for me to kind of get perspective sometimes. And so it's like, okay, there's nothing past today and all I've caused is pain and I'm

[00:29:13] a burden on all these people. And you know, with my drinking and all that stuff, that's just gonna be a burden on my kids. So I should just end this all so they're, they can be happy. And so, yeah.

[00:29:24] So then when I talked to, I think, you know, as I think of it, just to hear my friend's voice and just to hear him be like, you know, I don't think there were any magic words that I can, I can remember. Right.

[00:29:32] I mean, I've written them down at some time, but I do, I do credit him for, for really helping me out. And I still thank him for it every once in a while. That's cool. Really cool.

[00:29:41] I mean, by the way, when I say magic words, what I mean is like basic empathy or listening or, you know, it's not magic, but no, that's magical because we don't get it very often. No, that's, that's exactly what it was.

[00:29:51] I mean, he was very empathetic and I could hear that he was just there, you know? And yeah, so that, that was that. And I think then she, she called, she called the ambulance. And so the police and the ambulance were there and kind of checked me out.

[00:30:04] So I mean, like for me, like I'd been listening to your podcast for a while and I was like, I appreciate it. And then I remember, yeah, whatever that night was. I mean, well, I sent it at almost three in the morning.

[00:30:14] And you're looking at the original email right now on your other monitor because you're a fancy tech punk. Not that fancy. Come on. It's pretty fucking fancy, bro. Go get it. Go get it. How do you not have two monitors? Go get a monitor.

[00:30:25] I mean, I don't need 17 fucking monitors because I don't work for the NSA. That sounds like a different podcast altogether. But no, I mean, I think, I think at the time I was having panic attacks a lot.

[00:30:38] Just those things where I'm like, okay, shit, I'm gonna, I, I, I'm going to die. I might feel my body dying. And so I think, I think when I sent that email, that was the situation.

[00:30:46] I don't know if I said anything about the day, but yeah, I mean, that day must've been a just a tough day where I was beating myself up over maybe something, not being able to give my kids the life I want to give them.

[00:30:57] Right now I'm in a, I'm in a two bedroom apartment. My kids have each room and I'm in the living room. You sleep in the couch? I, no, I put my bed here. I'm, you know, I'm a grown man. But you know, like that.

[00:31:11] And then to, to, to look at my life now and let's say when I was in the U S you know, I had a five bedroom house. You did? I had a backyard and all this stuff. Sure. All right. Well, all right. So that is, that's interesting.

[00:31:23] So to go from being quite comfortable without sort of tangibly even, and you know, Hey, well that's all that stuff, all that stuff. So you're down, you downsized considerably and there's, I don't know, is there a status thing connected to that?

[00:31:35] Not a status more of just like, you know, for one thing, one thing that I do concern myself with is like, you know, when I was a teenager, there was basements to go to. There was places to hang out. You met your wife in one of them.

[00:31:47] I've met my wife in a basement. A great bar, a basement, some beer and a Sharpie. Polka dancing. Are you kidding me? Polka dance. No. Fucking kidding me? Weird question. It's the kind of question I don't think I've ever asked so directly.

[00:32:00] If you could go back to the night in the basement, polka dancing and the Sharpie, would you give her your number? Oh, I knew this one was probably coming. Really? I don't think I ask this question very often. I don't know, man. Time is weird, right?

[00:32:14] That was what? That was fucking 24 years ago. It's the source of many a movie, right? Or even maybe a book where like, well, if this doesn't happen, then, then, then, then if then. Right. What if I didn't say yes?

[00:32:27] We got together and then she was in this situation and I needed to move out of my apartment, but she was going to buy a house. And then we came to, then we got, then we moved in together and we were both wanted to, to

[00:32:37] move out of, you know, move out of the state and move out of the country. And so those, those adventures came together. So we had amazing adventures. That's for sure. We have two amazing kids.

[00:32:47] We moved internationally and now my kids are bilingual, which was one of the things that we wanted together. You know, like I remember before we had kids, before we got married, it's like, what do you want?

[00:32:57] It's cool to have bilingual kids and to live internationally at some point in our life. So that's still happening. So the universe flowed the way that it would flow. Those things happen.

[00:33:05] If I hadn't given her my number, I'd probably end up with somebody very similar to her because that's how life goes is in patterns until you learn that lesson. Right? Maybe so. Just something about Finland. I can't wrap my head around. Dude, it's, it's, it's a weird place.

[00:33:20] I love the flag though. So simple blue and white. So you, when the cops come and whomever else, and this is back in 2020, do they just have a chat with you or how does it work there? Or how did it work then? Yeah.

[00:33:33] They just had a chat with me because I think, I think my ex was so just, she couldn't handle it. And that's how I see it too. I mean, that was a lot to put on her and that wasn't fair.

[00:33:41] And obviously if it was for me just to, cause I didn't know how to process it myself, you know, to really think I didn't want to be here anymore. And I, how do you, how do you explain that to somebody?

[00:33:51] So the cop, I, the police came, they asked if I was okay. They asked it to be okay if I just went into my apartment and if I could just relax for the day and if I needed any help, they gave me a number and things like this.

[00:34:03] And I think the, I think the police, the guy, the cop was very, very nice too. Cause he was telling me, cause I told him my whole story, you know, my son's going to kill himself. You know, he, I don't know what he's going to do. He's depressed.

[00:34:14] I'm afraid he's going to kill himself. I'm a burden to him. I can't help him. Disappointed in my, my, my wife. I've disappointed my marriage. Things falling apart. And I remember, yeah, once again, my friend was nice that day and empathetic and that

[00:34:24] policeman was really nice and empathetic. And so, yeah, they, they just let me, they let me go. I just went into my apartment to her credit. My ex did come over later that afternoon and just check on me if I needed anything.

[00:34:37] But I just, I think, I think I watched a lot of the like Avengers movies a lot. Those are the ones I watched over and over. 2020 and one's attempt number two, big attempt as you say.

[00:34:47] Well, this one was, this one was more of just a, just a really scary, scary day. Let's see. Cause I do have kind of a timeline of my stuff. Ooh, right? Yeah. I had to write it down cause there was a lot of things happening.

[00:35:00] I should ask people to send me their timeline. Dude, I have a timeline and then I have it like categorized of what it was. And then I have a column, like if it was a trauma piece.

[00:35:08] That tells me a lot about you, Nick, the fact that you take such time and categorize it and you probably use Excel very well. Just I just know it. Well, you use Google docs now cause it's easier to use and free and you can share things. Google sheets.

[00:35:22] Of course. The first one was the beginning of 2020 and then the second one was in the autumn, September 2020. Just after I started this podcast, Nick. Really? Yup. I started in July of 2020. Okay. Yeah.

[00:35:39] So yeah, just right after that, like once again, I, I, that was, that was the only time I rode in an ambulance as like in the back of the ambulance. So my son was involved, was a part of this, like it's supposed to be family help. Right?

[00:35:52] And so they'd have these days out and so we would go as a family and this is a part of just like the horrible, like we were mistreated in the system and stuff here because like

[00:36:01] we would go, like they said, okay, it's a family help to kind of bring peace and bring you guys together. But there were just these outings that these, these contracts with social, these contractors from social services would take kids out.

[00:36:12] The first one I went there to, I'm like, great, let's do this. You know, Hey, show the kids some fun things. And I get there, we're the only whole family. Otherwise it's just like single kids, maybe two other parents.

[00:36:22] So I'm like, Oh, these kids have different problems altogether. You know, they don't have a family unit. And so the woman who was running that, I have a lot of problems with, but anyways, this

[00:36:32] day I met my kids and my ex and we were walking to this Island where we were going to meet up with the, the, the family help. My son didn't want to go. He's kind of dragging his feet.

[00:36:43] He sits down on a park bench and I'm like, bud, come on, you know, let's go. It's this Island is cool. It's got sheep on it. It's this, it's called Llamasari. So sheep Island sits on the park bench. I'm like, dude, you gotta come.

[00:36:55] And he starts yelling at me and I go to my ex. I'm like, can we get him to go? Let's go. She says, well, we got to let him take his time. I forget exactly, but what sparked it was he gets up and he starts throwing rocks at

[00:37:07] me and just saying that he wishes I was dead and I would kill myself. So I'm like, perfect. I will. And I blow up screaming, I'm going to kill myself.

[00:37:17] I will, I'm going to do it, you know, cause I want to make, I want to make him happy. Right? I want to give him anything he wants. And by this time he's told me this enough where I'm like, maybe he's right.

[00:37:27] You know, maybe that will make him happy. Maybe that will solve his things, whatever makes him sad. Maybe I should kill myself. And so I, I run, I'm like, fine, I'm going to go and I take off and it's in this park and it's a public park.

[00:37:39] I mean, I think it was maybe like a Saturday or Sunday morning. Right. And I'm screaming like a crazy person cause not crazy, but this disrupted, I mean, and I've been having panic attacks and depression and in between this time too at my apartment,

[00:37:52] I had a plastic bag. I would pry on my head every couple of days just to kind of see how it would feel. So kind of like when you walk through the woods and you thought about it, like there's some internal prepping in a, in a sense. Exactly.

[00:38:05] Yeah. I had a plan. Like I was like, okay, I'm not going to, you know, I'll kill myself after this happens. I'll kill myself after this happened. I'll wait for my birthday. Right. This is the reason to live until then, but no more. Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

[00:38:17] And so for me like too, I'm like, okay, but this is part of that will keep me alive for a little bit. Then I'll do that, you know? So then I won't think about killing myself for a couple of months until whatever comes.

[00:38:26] So yeah, that was in between. So at this time, like, you know, my son throwing rocks at me and telling me to kill myself, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm yeah, I'll go grab my bag. I'm ready. So yeah. So then I was just, uh, yeah, just livid.

[00:38:37] And once again, my friend, the same friend who called before calls me again. He's like, what's going on? I'm like, dude, I, this is what happened. He's like, okay, I understand that. But this isn't, you know, I forget what he said, but once again, just very empathetic,

[00:38:50] very chill, very calm. I trust him 100%. So I listened to him by this time. And I did this in front of both my kids. I'm going to kill myself. I'll kill myself. I will give you what you want.

[00:39:00] If this is what you want and I will get rid of, I'll be out of here so you guys can live your life without me. Because I felt so rejected through the divorce and through all these other things.

[00:39:09] And you know, this was still, this was probably still during COVID. So I'm not sure where the world is going, you know? And yeah, with depression and stuff like that, it's just, yeah, not having panic attacks,

[00:39:21] you know, spending time trying with a bag over my head, like, okay, how does this work? Anyways. So luckily listening to my friend, he said to go and find the ambulance because my ex had once again called the police and the ambulance was there.

[00:39:35] So they were like, yeah, you need to come with us. And I was like, uh, I prefer not to. But I think at that time, you know, now my ex had taken the kids and they were gone. So it was just me and these, these ambulance people.

[00:39:47] So yeah, so I got in the ambulance and they took me to the, to the hospital and I just talked to somebody. And once again, I told them at this point there'd been the ambulance ride and I'm like, okay, shit, this isn't a good day.

[00:39:58] That wasn't a good thing. And I was so inside myself, like it's yeah, like I said, it's tough to hear my beautiful son throwing rocks at me and telling me I should kill myself.

[00:40:08] But I explained it to the person there and they're like, yeah, you're, you're okay to go. There's nothing we can do. We can't keep you here or anything. And I'm like, okay. And so I didn't know what else to do with my day that day.

[00:40:17] But luckily I play, I play, um, I play Australian football. So we were having an Australian football game later that day. So luckily I had a thing to go take my mind off what happened earlier that morning.

[00:40:28] And when I got there, I told my another friend what exactly had happened that morning. And he just like gave me a big hug and he's like, okay, I'm here. Let's do this. And let's go rough some motherfuckers up. You fucking punk. That's awesome.

[00:40:41] Fucking Australian rules football is not for the soft or the tame. No. Yeah. You can, you can, you can get tackled pretty hard. Yeah. So those were the big attempt. What did you mean by big as opposed to not big?

[00:40:52] Because it sounds when you say big, there's other stuff happening in this time or in between the spaces or after. I mean, looking back, it was a lot of the ideation and I remember it was just that,

[00:41:02] that sadness and the aloneness and it's, you know, the, the, those were the big pieces that stick out in my memory now, but it is just those days of having enough. I'd always have enough sleeping pills cause I would, I would up the prescriptions and

[00:41:15] I would go ask for more and I'd up the prescription. So I had enough if I really wanted to do something, you know, or have a, I remember I bought this pillow and yeah, it was like this nice heavy plastic bag.

[00:41:27] And I'm like, oh, I'm going to save this because this is a good way to suffocate myself. And so thinking, you know, saying this stuff now, I don't think I've probably ever described it like this, you know, but those aren't healthy ways to live.

[00:41:40] And if those, and that, that, that was on my mind most of the time, you know, that, that's what was in the back of my, or not even the back of my head, like right in the

[00:41:48] front of my head, I mean, then trying to work and navigate COVID and then spend some time with my kids in this. Well, it was a, I had a room, I had one room in an apartment, two bedroom, or it was a one bedroom apartment.

[00:42:00] My flatmate had the living room, I had the bedroom. And so my kids, when my kids would come over, we'd stay in one room. And so that was a huge hit to my ego, obviously, you know? And so I've been trying to crawl out of that space.

[00:42:12] The ideator's mind. I don't know if that's an actual title of anything, but I feel like that's what, you know, among other things, what you shared about like ice, some people see a bag and it's just a bag. They put shit in it.

[00:42:23] Maybe eventually they toss it, but other people sometimes think, how would that fit over my head in a way that would kill me? Yep. I remember it's like, oh, cause this is thick. This is a thick, this is thick. This is nice.

[00:42:36] The way it opened, I can, I can, I can tighten it and then I could, I could put a zip tie on there and then it would, I couldn't get off of it. Another shitty way to die Nick. I know, I know.

[00:42:47] You're really picking shitty ways to die. Didn't want to make it easy, right? Yeah, I don't, well, I don't know. I did all that research. I remember, I remember Googling things like how, you know, easiest way to die. Well, how do you kill yourself?

[00:42:58] And I'm like, if I'm doing this, I should probably get some help. Did you get some help? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was also a part of kind of the, the, the, the child custody stuff was not super nice with my, with my son's issues.

[00:43:12] And so a lot of it was blamed on, a lot of it was pointed at me. And also here in Finland, if you're a man, that means you're probably an alcoholic, which I was told in one meeting. And so then they like, you need to get therapy.

[00:43:25] And I was like, okay. And so yeah, so then I did get therapy and I was on, I was in therapy for two, two years. And then that actually, that's when they gave me, what was I on first? I was on Brintolex. I was on Brintolex starting in 2019.

[00:43:38] And that never agreed with me because that fogged up my mind. I couldn't think straight. And also one of the side effects of Brintolex is higher suicidal ideation. Wait a second. What's Brintolex used for primarily? Depression.

[00:43:51] So what you're saying, a depression medication is more likely to lead to suicidal ideation? Yeah. That's one of the side effects. I understand that it's being labeled as a side effect by a pharmaceutical company or somebody else in a governmental body.

[00:44:02] But can you see why I'm wondering what, that seems really weird. Yeah. Okay. And so I was like, I don't want, I don't want that. You know, what can I do? Can there's, can I meditate as a breathing techniques, all this stuff. And I started with my therapist.

[00:44:17] She's like, if we're doing therapy, you need to be on a depression medication. I'm like, okay, fine. I'm like, but how do you know which one's right for you? Because I know there are side effects.

[00:44:25] And so, I mean, really with that, I do attribute the medication a lot to my peaks of those, those two incidents I just talked about. And so after that second one, I was like, you know what, maybe I need to get off this fucking medication.

[00:44:39] And so I did. And so they're like, well, we'll, we'll switch you to this. What's it called? Eschatel, a pram or something. So Lexapro. Then I was on Lexapro. Okay. Better than Lexa amateur. Oh, that's the amateur. You're quick. It's not going to make the final version.

[00:44:56] Yeah, probably not. No way. So as you're looking at these notes 2020, so you're going through, you're getting therapy, but in January you sent me an email. You were ideating pretty heavily. And since then, until the moment we're sitting here right now, are you ideating a lot? No, no.

[00:45:16] Maybe not in the past couple of months. Okay. Did anything change? Not really. No. Beginning of this year, I've done some great things with my kids. My daughter wanted to go to Paris and actually before maybe middle of last year, I think

[00:45:28] I was probably ideating a lot and I was like, well, I can't kill myself until I take her to Paris. It's a fucking movie right there, man. Seriously. Yeah, dude. Did you have a good time? Oh, it's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah.

[00:45:42] No, she wanted to go to Paris for like maybe two, three years and I'm like, because she watches this cartoon that takes place in Paris. I'm like, yeah, let's go.

[00:45:49] And so I planned it and we went up the Eiffel tower on Christmas day and we were there at dusk. So we went up, the sun went down and then all the lights went on in the tower. So it was pretty, pretty magical.

[00:46:01] How long were you in Paris with her? Well, it was both. We took, it was me and my son and my daughter and I think we were there for five days. And so we went and did Disney and we went and did the Eiffel tower.

[00:46:11] We walked around and all this fun stuff. That's amazing, man. Maybe you saw my ex-girlfriend. She's French. Oh really? Well, hello. She's married with a bald guy and a son now. So she apparently has a type different podcast. So that's very cool.

[00:46:24] Now that I say that it's like, no, definitely last year I was still pretty ideating pretty hard and I was like, no, I can't do this until, until, until she goes to Paris. Do you think weather has a role in this?

[00:46:34] Cold weather there has any impact on all this? The darkness of the winter for sure. Darkness maybe even more, right? More. It's the darkness that gets to me. I think it's everybody. I mean, that's, that's proven here.

[00:46:46] Finland is always rated as one of the happiest places in the world, right? It's also high suicide rates because of the darkness. And also there's huge alcohol consumption here. Huge drinking, huge drinking. They get rated the happiest because you know, the bottom that are sad, they're the ones

[00:47:02] who kill themselves. So they, you know, yeah, those are fucking really dumb polls or research. They're just magazine articles for people to click. It's dumb. I know they're real, but you can't measure happiness. I think it's based on like things that are easy. Right?

[00:47:16] So like here, like ever since my kids were young, they can go out to the park. I don't have to worry about them getting hurt. There's not going to be any violence or anything against them. Things are, things are available for everybody.

[00:47:25] Everything's pretty like even, but there's also downsides to that too. So in the winter, yeah, it would be winter, right? Northern hemisphere. How dark does it get when like how early does it start getting dark?

[00:47:37] During like the deepest part of winter, there's maybe like dusk for two hours and that's about as light as it gets. Oh Jesus Christ. Do they have big spot lights on the fucking streets or something? There are, there are, uh, yeah, lights around.

[00:47:52] And then there's a lot of, um, indoor sporting places. So people go try to play a lot of sports. You know, you get these like sun, these, uh, whatever they call them, you know, the lights that are kind of wake you up to the sun or whatever.

[00:48:04] Like with the ones they use in torture chambers? Probably like that. Yeah. But yeah, no, that's, that's about how it gets here. So it gets really dark and gray and if there's snow, it's a little bit lighter, but then

[00:48:14] if there's no snow, it's just like the streets are black and everybody's wearing black and gray and white drinking and they're drinking, rousing and eating pickled herring or whatever you guys eat. Yeah, no pickers herring. That's right. Yeah. There's a herring, there's a herring festival every year.

[00:48:29] That's amazing. Really? That's a pickle herring. Just, just say the word a few times. I feel better. If I asked you when you were 12, 22 or 32 that when you were 40 you would try to end your life, would you be like, no chance? No, that would have made sense. Yeah.

[00:48:49] No, I never, I never thought I'd live to be this old. We didn't talk about this. No. How does this not come up? But Nick, so you never thought you would make it to 40 plus? No, not really.

[00:49:01] I don't think it was like a hard thing, but like I couldn't imagine, you know, things going. I didn't, I don't know. I was pretty, I'm pretty reckless kind of person, but also too, I think I always kind of knew that there was that inside of me.

[00:49:12] I think I even would joke too, you know, during like my midlife crisis or, you know, when I was suicidal, you know, back in my, back in my thirties and, you know, back in my twenties, I'd probably joked about shit like that.

[00:49:22] So yeah, if you would ask me at, what did you say? 12, 18, 22? Just random years. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be like, oh sure. That makes sense. I know why you actually wanted to talk with me. I know how, why you found that or how you found the podcast.

[00:49:35] I just really, I really respected the other people, you know, the other people on your podcast are sharing their stories and I think it helped me through a lot of dark times.

[00:49:43] And then in January when I felt not so great again, I was like, well, I fucking tried everything else. I've done therapy. Why don't I, why don't I go on this podcast or why don't I reach out to you to talk to

[00:49:53] you and see what this experience is like? I mean, everybody has their story, you know, like when I've listened to your podcast, it's like, yeah, people have divorce in their life or you know, there's a, there's a breakup of something or somebody dies and shit like that.

[00:50:05] So I'm like, yeah, that's, I've had that too. Those are my same pattern. So just sharing, sharing my experience and see if it's, yeah, just to, just to put it out there, I guess. I appreciate it.

[00:50:15] What else helps you feel less shitty or less alone or maybe good? I'm also a professional wrestler. What do you mean? Like currently? Yeah, currently. Yeah. I picked that up about three years ago and so that's really also helped me through a lot of things.

[00:50:28] No, this is real. You're being real here. Serious. Yeah, I'm being real. Yeah. What's your stage name? It's just my name. That's fucking boring. What do you mean? It's just your name. Well, I'm an American with a Finnish name and I never planned on getting into wrestling.

[00:50:40] So I didn't have a character. So it's just me. Things are getting weird. Thanks. I'm just intrigued by that whole world, but okay. So in Finland, Nick from Minnesota is a professional wrestler.

[00:50:52] Like for me, obviously I picked, I never thought, well, like you said, if you were to talk to me at 12 and said, when you're in your forties, do you think you would have killed yourself or been suicidal? That would have made sense to me.

[00:51:04] But if you just said, do you think you'd start a professional wrestling career? I would have been like, no, that doesn't make any sense. I'm a little guy, but here I am. And yeah, I've trained in, I've trained in Spain. I've trained in the UK.

[00:51:15] I've had matches in the UK. I just had a match in Sweden earlier this year. I should start a new podcast about that shit. How many people know about your two attempts? Yeah, most people. I mean, my friend, my ex, my kids.

[00:51:29] I've told my parents, you know, my brothers know. So yeah, I mean, for me, like from the experience of going through all that stuff, it was me, but it's also just this part of me that happened. It's this sickness, this illness or whatever, right?

[00:51:45] I wasn't of sound mind and I was on depression medication and that attributed to it and things of this nature. I would rather share my experience than not tell anybody. I don't talk about it too much now, but at the time I definitely was, you know, if anybody

[00:52:00] would ask this, what I would talk about. Suicide's not an uncommon thing in Finland, but is it talked about? No, not as much as it used to be. When you went to therapy, you still in therapy or you stopped? I stopped.

[00:52:11] I'll take the therapy anytime that it's kind of given. I've been in several different types of therapy. I was in like traditional just psychotherapy. I was in a group therapy for a while. There was this, what was it called?

[00:52:21] Group play therapy where we'd kind of take roles and you'd act pieces out, right? Oh, like a psychodrama? Psychodrama. Yes, yes. Like that. So that was cool. And then if I get kind of this, you get this occupational therapy, I'll take those three free sessions or something.

[00:52:39] In all the time, and I imagine this applies more to maybe dealing with, I don't know, whoever it might've been. Did you get a diagnosis? I know you mentioned depression. Anything that you think is accurate then or now? Just depression.

[00:52:51] But I mean, I think like at the time since everything was so intense, like I would be very interested to maybe work again with somebody to see if there's other things going on because I know like, I think there's untreated mental health in my family.

[00:53:05] But obviously time and place, things happen, you know, back in those, you know, when my parents or their parents were this age, they didn't handle it, right? They would just drink it all away or- Drink, drink. You know, go do other things.

[00:53:19] So I mean, I think that that is alive in me and for me, I can research as much as I can so I can help my children. And so like actually to the most recent therapy is I took both of my kids to the family therapist.

[00:53:30] So me and my son had some sessions. And then since my daughter's been kind of out of it, you know, because it's been so focused on my son, I wanted to get her help too, just to really just to take them to therapy

[00:53:40] to say, you ever need this, this is here, this is how you do it. And also too, in those therapy sessions, I said, what happened happened. I am not proud of those things and they might not come up for you now in your life, but if

[00:53:52] they ever come up, you can ask me about them. You know, you can ask me why this happened or why were you doing this? You know, cause they're, they're 12 and 15 so they're not processing everything.

[00:54:01] So when they get into their twenties, like, oh shit, why was dad so pissed? Or why did this happen? Or why do we live in one bedroom? It's like, come and ask me, that'll be part of your process. So no big deal. Hmm.

[00:54:12] Do you think anybody in your life will actually listen, including you when this comes out? I have no idea. I don't know. I'm not going to actively share it because I think like with the details I've given people

[00:54:23] kind of figure out, you know who it is and that's fine too. But I have shared it out with some people that I know who have, who, who do suffer from depression and who are suicidal. So I've shared it out with some other friends and stuff like that.

[00:54:34] Yeah. And I'm, I'm going to go meet up with a friend to take a sauna here in a little bit too. And I'll probably tell him about it. So. Cause it's Finland. It's Finland. It's a bar sauna. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[00:54:45] Just to be clear here, they've combined a bar and a sauna. Yeah. Yeah. It's a bar, but then you just walk down the corridor, it's a locker room and there's a sauna. All right. Hang on. Let's just, this has nothing to do with this podcast.

[00:54:57] What I need to know is Finland part of the EU? Yeah. So if I get EU citizenship or residency, I can go to a bar sauna. Yeah, of course. You don't even need the citizenship. You can just take a trip and let me know. I'll bring you there.

[00:55:08] It's right there. I'll pay you a punch card. Otherwise, I think it's like 18 euros at time, but I paid a punch card. So it's about 10 years of time. I would, I can, I can get you in. Wow. Goodbye, United States.

[00:55:18] A couple more questions and then you'll add whatever you want. You could look at that list, that very organized list in Google sheets, which I appreciate as we speak. Do you wish that either of those attempts had turned out differently and you were dead? Yeah. Yesterday for sure.

[00:55:34] Or you felt like yesterday you wish you weren't alive and it would have been easier if you had died then. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, yesterday was a horrible day. There was a lot of different things that happened that weren't super great and I had a lot of

[00:55:44] anxiety and then actually I took my son to a nurse's appointment to check in on his depression and a lot of those things came back and like, fuck, you know, what would it have mattered if, you know, would it be better if I wasn't here?

[00:55:56] That thought ran through my head. I mean, it's something that I know comes and goes and so I need to keep learning and exploring myself. You know, the thing that on my best days, I think, yeah, I do this.

[00:56:06] So when it comes up again for my son as well in his life, I can be there for him. On my worst days, I'm like, well, shit, it's a physical pain. It is a physical pain. It hurts in your body. You don't feel good. My brain is fogged.

[00:56:21] I can't have thoughts. I forget my memories fucked. My memory is fucked. I don't know if it's from the, from the, the, the, the depression medication or just having depression, but like, I don't feel super confident about my memory.

[00:56:33] So when you're in the really tough stages, like meaning yesterday, let me just use myself as a quick reference point. I have gotten better at knowing even when it's really bad, oh, it doesn't stay forever. Usually, like it's not going to stay forever.

[00:56:45] In the moment though, it's hard, but I've gotten better in that moment to be like, at night I feel a certain way, but usually when I wake up, I'm a little better. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:56:56] And even if I wake up and I don't feel better, I know, well, I'll keep going. And maybe one thing that I've been doing, like I talked to my, I talked to my brother back, back home almost every day.

[00:57:04] And so like that, that's helped me, you know, we've been always been close, but now we're even, we've been quite a bit closer to, and he complains to me about his shit. I complain about my shit.

[00:57:12] And then he reminds me, Hey, even though your shit, that, that stuff isn't going right. There's a lot of other good parts in each of our lives. You know, he's like, yeah, if you would have told me at 20 that, you know, you'd be doing

[00:57:23] this and I live in Finland and I have a remote job and I do pretty well for myself, I would have said, how the fuck did I get there? Do you know the pink and purple pill question? Yes. Testing if you've actually heard the fucking podcast, Nick.

[00:57:36] I listened to it. I listened to an episode this morning in the bathtub. Oh, it's fascinating to hear where people listen to it. Which makes sense. It's a podcast. I listened in the bathtub. I listened in the car. I listened to Trader Joe's pink and purple pill.

[00:57:48] Just so our audience who might be first time listeners, Nick gets a pill. He takes it, he dies in his sleep and nobody knows it's a suicide. Though you can change those conditions. You may not add to them. However, people try to do that.

[00:57:59] There's a reason there's two colors because it's two ideas. Do you take it, save it or toss it? I know. I'm so happy I came up with this question. It's one of my best ever. It is a good question. Today? Today I would save it.

[00:58:11] Yesterday I would take it. It's a thin line, right? So just to be clear here, you'd said earlier that sometimes you are able to get through the day or the week because you know you're going to take your daughter to Paris, your children, right? That type of thing?

[00:58:25] Yeah. Yesterday, our fucking talk wasn't enough. I didn't know who to have it, right? You would have taken it and missed this goddamn conversation? Hey, you didn't get back to me on the email. Then you have problems with your laptop and your phone, man. I don't know.

[00:58:39] I got priorities. This is fun. Yeah, I understand. No, but I mean, it's tough. I think it's keep on learning and it's that idea of having that pill and if you could save it, then it's there. It's this control thing.

[00:58:54] And then if you throw it out, you're going to have to go back to the other methods. Exactly. Oh, so the idea of having it around, I mean, that's a lot more enticing. Then you have it around and you're going to store it somewhere.

[00:59:05] By the way, there's a long shelf life. Don't worry about that. But you ought to be obviously very careful about where you store it, which is, anyway. I mean, that's an interesting thing because I had a cousin who died and I'm not sure

[00:59:16] if she killed herself or not. How do we think she died? She had, well, she had bipolar and she was on a medication and she was a heavy drinker and there's a lot of other stories around it.

[00:59:26] But I think it was like something with her heart is what it was. And this was in, this was what? May 2020. Her situation and thinking of that and like, shit, maybe she did kill herself. That also contributed to a lot of my issues at the time.

[00:59:41] Two more quick questions. Are you on any meds anymore? No, not anymore. I take sleeping pills every once in a while if I really need them. And then you can add anything you want, whether it's on your timeline or not. Any myths or misconceptions you'd like to dispel?

[00:59:55] I mean, I think the biggest thing is just, you know, when you're going through that, it's so hard to understand the experience, you know, and just to have somebody who's empathetic, who will sit there with you and to have somebody that you know will be there

[01:00:06] and to have like that net of people, you know, like in my case, it was my friend who just would call, who called me. And I mean, I still talk to him and we're in a WhatsApp group and we support each other

[01:00:16] and we have good men who support each other. But I mean, people don't need to be told what to do. They just need to be listened to. It really does seem hard. Some people get it right for sure, but a lot don't. No exactly.

[01:00:28] It's like, oh, okay, no, you need to go to the therapist. You need this. You need to do that. It's like, uh, I can't breathe and my body hurts and I can't think. And I came to you for help and you're pushing me to somebody else.

[01:00:40] A hundred percent. You nailed it. You nailed it. Thing is, some of them probably do care. They just don't know what they're doing or how to do it. Oh, exactly. I mean, yeah, that'd be overwhelming.

[01:00:49] I mean, like myself, when my son was in that situation, I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to, I tried to be there for him, but then they would get worse and I'm like shit, you know?

[01:00:57] And I mean, even for me, like reaching out to people and the depression and my issues have ruined relationships for me since my divorce, you know, like things come up and I don't know how to handle them and I take them, I overshare. It's a difficult thing.

[01:01:11] It's a difficult situation, the whole seeing depression and mental illness as not identifying it with the person, right? But seeing it as any other medical emergency or medical piece, right? Like there is no one right path to it, right?

[01:01:24] Like you do whatever feels good for you at the time, go get help. Okay. If it feels like sports are feeling good for you, for me, like, you know, I got into like spiritual stuff and that helped for a time. Is that the truth?

[01:01:35] Maybe, you know, then I did go to all the therapists and all the psychotherapy and all that, you know? And I know that I look back, it's like, well, then in my thirties and stuff, was it just,

[01:01:43] I didn't know what to do and I didn't know how to deal with it. So it was just drinking. And now it's putting on a leotard and fucking wrestling. Yeah. Yeah. Who says leotard anymore? That's a dated word. Yeah, you just did.

[01:01:54] Uh, I'd say, I'd say, I'd say singlet. It's a wrestling singlet. What I wear. Check out my wrestling on Instagram. It's just my name, Nick underscore Luke. So I'm going to see like videos of you fucking wrestling. Yeah, dude. Come on. All right.

[01:02:08] I'm rarely on Instagram, so I am literally going to look right when we get off. What's your record? I don't know. Actually, I know my first win. Oh, and I won, I won my last match, but I mean, it's all about making people have a good time.

[01:02:24] That's it. Right. It's entertainment. And that's, that's awesome. You're helping people out. You're doing your thing. Um, and I think you help people by coming here and people, as you know, they hear it just like you've been hearing in the bathtub and elsewhere.

[01:02:37] And now you're one of the people, dude. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Yeah. What time is it there right now? Was it eight, nine o'clock? It's nine o'clock. Yeah. Fucking dark and no, see now it's getting to summer.

[01:02:48] So now it'll flip and then basically it'll only be slightly dusk for two hours in the so that must fuck with your sleep. Yeah. Yeah. Fucks with your sleep all times. All the time. You get blackout curtains and I patches and stuff.

[01:03:01] You think you're going to stay in Finland for a little while for the time being. But last year I was definitely looking back to move to looking to move back to the U S. I was really some job, job interviews and stuff like that. Yeah.

[01:03:12] Because I don't have it. I don't, I mean my family's there and I do miss my family. So, but for the time being my, you know, I'm here with my kids. I mean, my kids are having a good time.

[01:03:21] So yeah, I mean at least for this year I'll be here, but I think my job situation might allow me to be a bit more mobile between Finland and the U S anything else you want to share with me and of course listeners.

[01:03:32] Oh, I think this was great. Yeah. I think what you're doing is great. I think the podcast is really, really helpful. I think the format that you do is just like no bullshit, just straight up doing it your own way. Very pumped. Yeah.

[01:03:45] It's just good to hear other people's stories. I'll keep doing it as long as I'm not dead and I don't plan on dying anytime real soon and I don't have a shortage of people reaching out, which probably comes as no surprise.

[01:03:56] Not an overwhelming amount, but it's a manageable amount. But I'm a friend. Thanks again. I'll be in touch with you soon and yeah, appreciate it. Yeah, no, thanks so much. Yeah. Have a great day. All right, take care. Bye. Yep. Bye.

[01:04:11] As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support and special thanks to Nick over in Finland. Thank you, Nick. If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out. Hello at suicidenoted.com.

[01:04:23] You can find us on Facebook or Twitter slash X at suicide noted. And if you have a few moments and you're curious to learn more about the podcast, check the show notes.

[01:04:33] And if you have a few moments and would like to help us out, rate and review this podcast, please. It helps people find it. And of course we want more people to find it. That is all for episode number 217. Stay strong. Do the best you can.

[01:04:47] I'll talk to you soon.