Martiens in Norway 🇳🇴

[00:00:00] I'm the reason, that is the reason why I tried all this stuff It was only that But you guys don't want to give it to me You give me this medication And I am fine Then I can deal with my shit And he said to me, I can prescribe it

[00:00:37] Hey there, my name is Sean Wellington And this is Suicide Noted On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors And ideators So that we can hear their stories Every year around the world Millions of people try to take their own lives And we almost never talk about it We certainly don't talk about it enough And when we do talk about it When we engage with people in pain All kinds of pain We are not very good at it In fact, most of us are quite bad at it And that is a problem So one of my goals with this podcast Is to have more conversations

[00:01:06] And hopefully better conversations With survivors In large part to help more people in more places Hopefully feel a little less shitty And a little less alone Now if you are an attempt survivor Or ideator Or somebody who thinks about it And you'd like to talk I'd love to talk with you Please reach out Hello at SuicideNoted.com There are a few ways That you can help us out Leaving a rating or review on Apple helps Commenting on our Spotify poll helps And if you have the opportunity The means

[00:01:35] The interest To make a tax-deductible donation That helps a lot too Now we've changed fiscal sponsors So you might see GiveButter.com Slash Suicide Noted In some spaces I don't know where that link's gonna take you In the near future But moving forward You should see a link In several places Starting with Donorbox.com Slash Blah blah blah blah blah That is the new place To contribute If you'd like Either way However you're involved

[00:02:04] Even if it's just listening once in a while I appreciate it Finally We're talking about suicide here on this podcast My guests and I do not hold back Please take that into account Before you listen Or as you listen But I do hope you listen Because there is so much to learn Today I am talking with Martians Martin lives in Norway And he is a suicide attempt survivor Martians Where are you from? Where are you living? Where are you right now? I'm a South African

[00:02:33] But I'm a Norwegian citizen now We live in the lower half Like right in the middle almost Norway Martians in Norway Married Yeah So how long of the two have you been there? We've been here now Going for 10 years You wrote to me recently First of all you're a poet So always loved the poets There was some poetry And in the prior original email One of the things That seemed to be at the center of your life That was causing problems Is that you have narcolepsy

[00:03:02] Yes Narcolepsy with cataplexing Narcoleptics are the world's Most overslept Exhausted people Yeah Because our brain Wants to keep us awake at night And it wants us to sleep in the day But it's not really sleep You see One of the symptoms Is called sleep attacks But it's not really sleep Surprisingly you're going to Know very quickly I don't know much about this But here's what I know There's a reason humans sleep Or we wouldn't sleep Yeah there's a reason

[00:03:31] So whatever the multiple I assume it is Reasons we sleep And I have some of my own sleep stuff So I can speak a little bit to it If it's not good enough It causes problems Some of them is how we feel But probably some of them are bigger In terms of our health I'm imagining this has Fucked your life up pretty bad Yeah No it's It's stolen so much time When you get These sleep attacks Which I would Get between Four and five In a day It's also before that And after that You get what they call

[00:04:01] Brain fog Where you just cannot Focus or concentrate It just takes away When did it start? The first I can remember Is 1984 Wow But I had it diagnosed Here in Norway In 2011 Before that We had the suspicion You know That I probably Got this problem But it was only Officially diagnosed In I'm talking nonsense It's 2015 I mean This is going to sound Like a weird question

[00:04:31] And I don't mean To be insulting at all But like Because I just Don't know how it works Is it possible That while we're talking You go to sleep? I don't think And I'm also When I'm excited You know When I I'm a sculptor as well So when I When I work When I'm going to Make a sculpture And I've got the idea Then I get this You know Adrenaline And I will work For hours

[00:05:00] But when I stop Then I I crash You know Then everything Just comes back Because you said You think it first Started happening About 1984 So it was like Decades until You were diagnosed I would think If so many years ago Something so Difficult Or problematic Happened Like I'd be at the doctor Every day You know I At first Thought This happens to everybody The first time I went I was in the South African police force

[00:05:28] Which is some irony In that And then Then I went to go And study Forestry management I failed here Yeah sure We were drinking too much And you know Having too much fun But I just couldn't Stay awake Even while writing exams Starting to study Then I went to the library Those were the days You know Before the internet And I was Sitting there Reading this book It's a thick book Because she couldn't Take that book out It's an academic book And then the librarian Came to me And said Listen Are you going to Use this book For a long time

[00:05:58] Because there's somebody That wants to use it And this person Followed the librarian And was standing Kind of behind them And this was a doctor Sir John Foster But he was A cardiologist And he kind of You know After a while He said to me You know I think You maybe have this But then you know You've got the Connectation to it It affects Your ability to drive It affects your ability To own a firearm So I kind of like I'm not so sure If I want to go ahead And go and see somebody And just try to

[00:06:28] To fight through it I told you I was diagnosed 2017 Now I remember Because 2016 I got sepsis In my lower back And then my symptoms Got worse Especially the Cataplexy part Got worse And then I thought Okay well Let's get this Diagnosed Figure it out And see what It really is Because maybe There's something We can do about it So this podcast Is not the Narcolepsy podcast It's called Suicide Noted So if you were Just dealing with Narcolepsy

[00:06:58] And there was no Connection to suicide You wouldn't have Found it And we wouldn't Be talking How old are you? I'm 58 Now before all This stuff Had you ever Thought about suicide? Yes I did I was in Israel In 1989 And then when I Went back to South Africa I was finished By then studying Forestry So I was doing Some work in Forestry And I was In a previous Marriage The thing with This

[00:07:27] Was basically The sleep Deprivation This is the Main problem But because you're Exhausted Small things Little things And big things My father's Death Well when I Was three And a half Years old That was Always something Which was Very heavy On me I had The Staffordshire Bull Terrier His name Was Trompi One of my Best friends Ever And I was Working in the Forest And we were Clearing Fire brakes I used to Carry a Nine millimeter

[00:07:56] Because I Bought a gun After I left The police Force in South Africa And I Sat there In that Fire brake I just Decided You know Stuff it My dog Was sitting On my Left side And I Took out My Nine mole And I Wanted to Shoot him First I took A pine cone And I Wanted to Throw to Distract him So he Doesn't look At me But I Had to Move my Firearm From my Right hand To my Left And as I threw It He looked And I Tried You know Move my

[00:08:25] Gun back To my Right hand To shoot him But by that Time he Was looking At me You know And then I Threw another Cone And he Didn't look Away He just Kept on Looking at Me You know Then my Mind cleared A bit And I Thought If I Do this Not only Will they Find our Bodies But maybe Somebody will Find me First And they'll Take the Firearm Use it For something Else Of course I didn't Want that To happen Yeah But I've I've told This to People Before Because this Is about This dog

[00:08:55] That knew He knew Something What was The dog's Name His name Is Trompy So So without Trompy Maybe You're dead Maybe Maybe And you Are And But this Was 1999 Or afterwards This was Early 2000 Yeah So you Would have Been in Your 30s It's a Really hard Question But why Did you Want to Kill Yourself At that Time It was I was Struggling With this Thing that I didn't Know What it Was I'm Sure There have Been times In your Life When you Were Struggling With the Effects of

[00:09:25] Narcolepsy Where you Weren't the Nicest person To be Around I'm Guessing I'm Not I'm Not No I'm Absolutely Not Right It affects Your mood Yeah You Change If you're Tired And people Will People Will Be Thinking Perhaps Oh I get It Like I know What it's Like to Be a Little Sleepy And It's Like Apple No It's More Much I Don't Think I don't You're Talking About Being A little Sleepy Yeah You know What I Should have Started With Before We Started Talking Because You've Got The Disclaimer

[00:09:55] That Your Podcast Is For Educational Purposes Well It is Not For People To I'm Not Here To

[00:10:45] Somebody Sean What You're Doing Is Unsafe We're Going To Shut It Down But Nobody's Ever Done That Yet I Think It's Very Safe I Think It's Very Ethical I Think It's Very Important Obviously But You know People In the Suicide Prevention Community Have Some Different Thoughts About The Way To Approach This Subject So I Think They Compliment Each Other But Whatever Before That Attempt In Your Early 30s With The Gun And Your Dog I Know That There Had Been Years Of Dealing With Narcolepsy I Know There Was A Point

[00:11:15] When You Were Younger Where You Probably Didn't Have It Or It Was Dormant Growing Up I Don't Need Your Whole Childhood And Teenage And Young Years But Summarize For Me I Know You're In South Africa You Kind Of Have A Normal Life Yeah Normal For Being In South Africa Kind Of It Gradually Increased Because These Are All Set Of Symptoms So It Gradually You know Started To Increase And More Symptoms Will I Can't Say Added On But It

[00:11:45] Just Developed When I Talk To People On This Podcast At Least More Than Half My Dad Was Beating The Shit Out Of Me My Mother Was An Alcoholic I Was Getting Bullied All The Time I Have Schizophrenia You know The Things That People Immediately Point To But You Didn't Have That Stuff So That's What I Mean My Normal Ish It's A Weird Word But It's Yeah No Psychological No Nothing It Really Is The Narcolepsy That Is The Demon Here Yes It's Like That's The Net It's Catching All The Other

[00:12:15] Stuff And The Other Stuff Starting To Gather In It Just Makes The Heavy How Many Times Have You Tried To End Your Life Or Almost Try To In Your Life In Total Three Times Excluding The Last Time Why Are We Excluding The Last Time Okay Four Times Then All Right So The First One You Just Talked About With Your Dog How Much Time Goes By Before The Second Attempt It's About 2010 I've Since Got Divorced And Met My New Wife And

[00:12:45] Then I've Also Had A Son My Own Son My Ex Wife Left Me And My Son And Then I Met My Present Wife And She's Got A Son So We Were A Family With Two Boys We Moved To Cornwall In England From South Africa Okay You Called Dutch Courage Okay You Know There's The

[00:13:15] Boundaries Kind of Fade And The One Night It Was Raining You Know Of Course This Narcolepsy Has Taken Over Such A Huge Part Of My Married Life My Wife Has Done So Much Research She's Really Trying To Figure Stuff Out And This One Night I Just You Know I Just Took Off I Took My Shoes Off And I Started Just Jogging Down The Road Into The Main Road Now This Is Cornwall The Main Road Is Not Really Big Yeah It's Small But You've Got These Stone Walls Next To The Road And I Was I Was Just Just

[00:13:44] Running And I Was Hoping A The Lights My Wife Called A Friend Of Mine Who Lives There He Only Afterwards Told Me He Went Out To Find Me And As He Went Out To Get In His Car He Saw Me Coming Down The Road He Tried To Stop Me And He Said I Just Ran Straight Past Him I Couldn't Even Remember You Were There So In The

[00:14:14] I Just Did A Really Good Marathon You Just Had A Really Good Run In The Rain Glad Nobody Came Around The Corner Because That Would Have Fucked That Person's Life Up Why Are You Glad It Sounded Like You Wanted To Die Yeah But You Know If You Think Afterwards You Think Damn You Somebody Came Around The Corner And Swerved Out Rolled Their Car Killed The Kid You Kind Of Think Oh That Was Yeah Of Of Of Of Of To Look After

[00:14:45] Others Then Sometimes You Just Get To This Point Where You Feel Like I Have To Remove Myself And That Way I Will Be Looking After The Others Because They Will Be Better Off That That A Way To In retrospect And This One You Think About Who Might Get Hurt In The Car So My Dog Stopped Me No Car Came You Know But Then Afterwards I

[00:15:15] Think Oh That Could Have Been Well When You're In It You're In A You're Of Mind Yeah Absolutely I You're Completely And I'll Go Back To That The Third Time I Joined The Coast Guard Cliff Rescue Team And I

[00:15:50] When People Commit Suicide So Then We Go And Fetch Them I Was One Of The Two Cliff Men And One Night You Know I Walked Out I Just Walked Out To The Cliff And I Stood There And I Thought Well This Would Be Easy You It's A Nice View Down As Well As I Stood There The Guys We All Volunteers Sure They Pirates When We Go Out But These Guys Most Of Them The Way They Deal With When Somebody Committed Suicide We Bring The Body Up Is That They Kind Of Afterwards Joke And They Are A Bunch Of Cornish Dicks And I Stood

[00:16:20] There And I Thought I Can Just Hear All These Jokes And It Will Spread Quickly Through The Village And My Sons Will Hear About It They Were Like Yo The Decease It Was Up His Arse Whatever You Know Then I Thought No Let's Let's Be Clear Three Almost Attempts And Three Times You Thinking About Other Human Beings Who Might Find You Who Might Find The Weapon Who Might Be Affected And You're Saying That's The Main Thing That Seems To Have Stopped You Yeah I'm Wondering In Between These Attempts As You're Dealing With

[00:16:50] Narcolepsy It's Probably Getting Worse It's Certainly Not Getting Better Years Go By Are You In That Time There's This Word Ideating Where You're Thinking About It I've Actually Looked That Word Up It's Funny When I'm Typing On Like On A Google Document It'll Underline It As It's Misspelled But It's Not It's Just A Word It Doesn't Recognize Which Is Interesting To Me And It Actually Is Very Telling About What We Do And Don't Know About Suicide And The Suicidal Mind When You say You're Thinking About It All The

[00:17:20] Time Is It Daily Weekly By The Minute Well I Wouldn't Say A Day That Doesn't Go Past There's Another Part To This As When We I Have To Do Three Four Five Times A Day And Then In That Nap Which Is Not Sleeping We Get What Is Called Hypnogokic Hallucinations And You Get Muscle Paralysis

[00:17:50] So You Cannot Move But You You You're Partly Awake You Can You Got I I

[00:18:24] Mean It I Think It Is So Real You You Saying During These Four Snaps Sometimes You Have Control Over Your Dreams and you would give some direction to your mind to kill you during the dream. Yeah, but there's entities that are people, sometimes humans. I can hear them walk. I can hear cars. I can feel them stabbing me.

[00:18:51] I can feel I've never been shot, but I feel huge pain. And instead of trying to try and fight this, I just do it. You know, just get it over with. I don't want to be too cheeky here, but if I had control over my dreams, I would be having some different kinds of dreams. Yeah, I tried. That's a different kind of podcast, but I don't mean to make light of your situation, but that's powerful stuff right there. So the question is then, what stops you?

[00:19:20] You've done it a total of four times. I've heard about three of them. There was one that was more recent, and we'll get to that. But every day or every day, what stops you from trying if you're thinking about it so often? Okay. When I was in the police, I became a detective. I had two main jobs. The one was, we had a mental asylum in Pretoria. Now, when somebody committed a crime in the court, once the investigator of this person

[00:19:47] was out of their mind at that point, they put them in this special facility. If they escaped there, they used to call them Article 28, which is the link in the law. And when they escaped there, that was one of my main things, was to go and find them. And the strange thing was, because of the legal aspect of it, they were state property. If they assault me, I cannot lay charges against them. And the other way around. But of course, I would have gotten into trouble. I would have had to explain why this person is full of bruises.

[00:20:16] And then the second thing I had to do, I was one of two unmarried detectives. I had to do suicides. Unnatural death investigations. So this is the irony in all this. I've seen it all. And of course, I deal with the people then around, and I see the body. Guy puts a shotgun in his mouth. It's not a pretty sight. That is one thing. I'm a little bit concerned on how would they find my body. Sometimes it's a mess. Sometimes it would be a shock.

[00:20:46] I would think, okay, well, maybe I call the cops and then do it. And then make sure they would be the first ones on the scene before my wife or my sons comes home. Well, I mean, some people have this, you know, they do the thing called, I don't know what it's called, actually, like death by cop, where they don't kill themselves, but they put themselves in a position to be shot by a cop. Yeah, I've heard about it. I've seen some videos.

[00:21:10] Some of the stuff you're bringing up is the exact reason why at some point a few years ago, I started asking this question called the pink and purple pill question. Yeah. Just to really gauge what is stopping you. So I'll ask you that in a little bit. When was the last one? You said there was one more. Saturday the 28th. Last month. Hold up. Hold up. Saturday the 28th of March of 2026? Yeah. Was that before or after you found this podcast?

[00:21:39] No, I found the podcast after. Okay. What happened on that Saturday? On our property at the back. We live in the forest in the mountains. We've got a place there where we make a fire, have some drinks. Yeah. And me and my wife, we did have arguments. It's about kind of the same thing, you know. We came back home. You know, I was just tired of, the argument is about there's not a collection. Is it? Okay. Yeah. And I was, I just, I just said to her, you know, I'm done. I'm done with this.

[00:22:07] And she was kind of like, you know, what are you talking about? And I was busy in the house and I went upstairs. I know there was more than 15 Zoplikin. I don't know what the grams is. I took a walk. The man came down, swallowed them. And I know this is a question you want to ask as well. As I swallowed them, I took my phone and I sent my sons each a message, just saying to them, I love you. I'm sorry that I disappointed you. And then she said, what did you just do?

[00:22:37] And I said, you know, I said, it doesn't matter. I'm going. I want to sleep. I want to sleep and I just want to keep on sleeping. I just, I don't care. I want to go now. This is it. And I was busy in the kitchen and then she saw me. I kind of collapsed by the oven stove and, you know, I had to grab the handle and fell and the glass broke. And then I kind of stumbled this way and I fell on the floor. I put her through so much.

[00:23:06] But she's an incredibly strong woman. And she called the ambulance. They took me to hospital. I had a hell of a good sleep. I realized that when I woke up. I had all the, all the sting, you know, the things that stick on you, all that on. But when I woke up, I was, now the hospital is just about two and a half, three hours from where we live. And my wife was not there. I got up and as I, as I, as I woke up, there was a nurse and a man standing there.

[00:23:35] He had a black beard, darker skin. He's from Arabia, from United Arab. And I just, I just told him, I said to him, listen, I'm so sick and tired of you people. I've been asking for help. I put my, my clothes back on. I didn't even took those things off. And as I walked out towards the door, the nurse came running up behind me and she said, please, please just talk to this, this one doctor. Just, you know, please just, because at that point, you know,

[00:24:03] I'm a, I'm far away from them and, and I'm in a different place. I just want to walk out and finish it. You know, I didn't think what I'm going to do, but I was, I'm just going to walk out here, find a way to finish this. But she's, she called me back and, you know, I don't want to be rude towards it so much. You know, I was, I was a bit loud and I went back. And then I met this, this doctor and, and I can, I can say his name. He said, I'm his dollar. And he said to me, listen, okay. They told me, you know,

[00:24:31] I kind of have to, the idea what your problem is here. And I said to him, yes. I said to him, there's medication that I can use, which makes my day 95% effective. I'm awake. I can focus, but you guys don't want to give it to me. I smuggled it into South Africa, from South Africa into Norway. I did it three times. My sister is a medical doctor in South Africa. She tried to post it to me, but the customs confiscated it, which I could have landed in trouble for that.

[00:25:00] But they just said they'd be taking it, destroying it. And I said, I've asked you guys for this. I've asked my neurologist for this. We've got studies that this works. And I'll name him as well, because he's an amazing man, Professor Rolf Franzig from Netherlands. He did the studies on this. And I'm proof that it works. But you guys don't want to give it to me. I'm the reason, that is the reason why I tried all these times. It was only that. You give me this medication,

[00:25:29] and I am fine. And then I can deal with my shit, but without it. And he said to me, I can prescribe it. Boy, what was the problem prior to that? Why wouldn't they give it to you? It's an opiate. It's called, you get a tramadol. They call it also tramadol, but it's an opiate. For what? It makes your life better. I literally, I had such a fight with my neurologist, that she took me off,

[00:25:57] as a patient at the hospital, where I'm supposed to get another medication called Mediadol. This is linked. So I have to have the Mediadol to be able to try. But that stuff just stuffs up my stomach. I vomit this foam out. And frankly, I'm telling them this stuff is, I think this side effects is worse, you know? Yeah. Give me this other pill. I've been using it, you know? Now I'm incriminating myself because I have smuggled it in.

[00:26:26] I did a postgraduate studies in Norwegian folk art. And in the middle of the year, I ran out. But I managed to continue. I was doing blacksmithing, looking at the old methods the Vikings used to make their swords. So that was enough to keep me going, you know? I was supposed to go and see my GP today. But I cancelled the meeting. I don't want to talk to him. Because if I see him, I'm going to tell him.

[00:26:54] I'm going to say certain things to him. Because I have been asking. I might jump ahead. You're going to ask me, you can still ask me the question about a name for a memoir. No, no. Oh, you got a memoir name? Let's go. Let's go, Martin. No, no. I've got more than one. I've got more than one. But I have to mention this. This is a painter, artist in Norway. He's passed away now. Edvard Munch. He did that painting scream. Yes. Yes. That.

[00:27:22] I was screaming. I'm still, like, I'm talking to you now. You know, we are. South Africa, we use our hands and stuff and we get a little bit loud. Okay. But I was asking, I said, please, ask my neurologist, just take these papers of this professor, Roel Fransik, to the university and ask them if I'm willing. I'll do a trial. Oh, no. I'm not involved in the university anymore. Maybe you should move to the Netherlands. Fucking bitch. They're literally begging for your life.

[00:27:52] I was begging. I was begging. But let's go back. You said that you found the doctor in the hospital who would prescribe it to you. Yeah. He works with addictions. So now you have it. I'm on a six-month trial now. That's why I'm smoking tobacco. And I've got a zero alcohol. In order to take this drug, you had to quit drinking and smoking weed. Now we're going to do a six-month trial so that he can motivate why I need it.

[00:28:22] So I've got to go and do a urine test every two weeks. Okay. Like a drug addict. Right. Well, it's a heavy drug. It's a strong drug. It's also probably an addictive drug. But right now, if it keeps you alive and makes you feel okay, well, how? This is the funny thing. This is what that professor Rob Fronzack proved in his studies, that we as narcoleptics, we cannot get addicted. Oh, shit. It's all got to do with your hypocritin neurotransmitter levels, which is the email from the brain.

[00:28:52] Minus 27%. If you go over 100, it starts to create a little bit of chaos which goes to the organs. That was what his study was about. So if I take it, my levels go up to 98%. I'm fine. I'm like, what you could say, a normal person then? Wow, wow, wow, wow. All right. So you're in the middle of the test. So that's somewhat encouraging, I suppose. Oh, yeah. It was amazing. For six years, I stopped drinking. I stopped smoking. One night, I just came home.

[00:29:21] I actually had a couple of drinks. I was still studying. I said to my ex-wife then, I'm done. I've got to figure something out. And I went on this six years to find Jesus. Then another two years and then I kind of started drinking beer again. I only started smoking in 2015 here in Norway. All right. So you've had times in your life where you've tried to stop drinking. You've had times in your life where you're looking for God. I mean, this is all just in an effort to try to feel better and be okay. Yeah, I'm trying to figure

[00:29:51] shit out. What's interesting is you're taking this medication now that's helping, but yet a few weeks ago, two weeks ago, you tried to end your life. They didn't want to give it to me. And I just felt, you know, I still had some lift. That's what I'm saying. You're on the drug, but yet you tried to kill yourself. When I went to America now, I still had, or Tramazac, which is a generic. And while I was there, my nephew got me some Tramadol and I was using it while I was there. It was fine. It was there for four weeks.

[00:30:20] But when I came back, I only had 10 left. And when, on the flight, I decided I'm not going to take anything because I just want to sleep anyway and get this flight over. And then I sat with these tent poles. Now I have to think because I have to go through summer, you know. I have to work. I have to, I make jewelry and stuff and sell it down. So I have to be awake when I'm selling stuff. You know, I can't just sleep and people come in. I have so many potential memoir titles for you and you wouldn't like

[00:30:50] any of them because they're all a little shitty and mean like The Sleepy Vendor or The Tired Viking. Cliff, man, I want to hear yours in a moment. Clear something up for me as you're trying to figure out how you're going to make use of these 10 pills and those are the last 10 pills. I was under the impression that right now you are on the medication as part of this six-month study. Now I am. But when I came back at the end of February, I had 10 pills left. That's it. I can get more if I go to South Africa

[00:31:19] which hopefully in September I'm going. That's the whole summer. No, we have to go back. I come back from America. I only have 10 left after pills I smuggled in. By the end of March, I was, that's it. You know, there's no point with 10 pills. Come on, what am I going to do with this 10 day? And that's when I decided to end it. Just take this enough sleeping tablets and just go sleep and keep on sleeping. My luck, you'll have to be awake on the other side probably. And then when I landed up in hospital that next morning

[00:31:48] when I woke up, there was a doctor that can prescribe it. Now I have it. Plus the 10 pills. Yeah, I still have, I have, yeah, I've got, yeah, eight of them left. So, okay, okay. So you're probably going to be okay for the next six, five and a half months. Yeah, no, he's going to prescribe it for me for the six months and then he can give a motivational letter that I can have it permanently. I had to almost kill myself to get it. That doesn't surprise me. It's a very fucked up world we live in. Did you find God? That's a yes and a no.

[00:32:18] Do you believe? Yeah, no, no, I believe. I believe in the Torah. I'm a, I'm a more Karait. I'm not a Christian. I'm not a Jew. I don't know what that means. It's a, it's a really old group of people. The word is a root word for raw letter. So when the Torah was written on letter, we're trying to go back to when the, just before the first letter was written, you know. Okay. No church, no rabbis and everybody for themselves. My,

[00:32:47] my personal opinion, you can believe whatever you want. You know, just don't, don't try and shove it down somebody's throat. God, whatever you're calling your God, what does your God believe in people who kill themselves? Well, you know, I think Einstein has got the entity that created everything right. E equals MC square. We energy. It's also based on the dream I had with my father who passed away when I was three and a half. I went in this dream to the house where I was born, the house he built with his own hands.

[00:33:17] After I had a dream, about three months later, I went there to that town where I was born, to that house and I knocked on the door because I couldn't remember much. I had a motorbike into a wall in 1983, which is, I think, we think part of why the narcolepsy manifested. Aha, okay. But it was there already. But you know, I went to the house, I knocked on the door, a little round, older man opened the door, I put my hand out as we South Africans do, shake your hand and I told him my name and my father was

[00:33:47] a member of a family who were all national sports people. There were five children and my father was quite well known, especially in that town and as I put out my name, this man started crying, hugged me, told me my father was his hero. He tried four times to buy this house but in the dream, I was standing in front of a long passageway and at the end, there was three doors and my father was standing there and I ran down and I was taller, a little bit taller than my father and he did my collar but I could feel his hands

[00:34:16] and I could feel his breath but when I went to that house in real time, this man was so excited to see me, asked, do you want to eat lunch? I said, sure and we were walking through the house, we got in the kitchen and I said, where's the bedrooms? And he said, right behind you and when I turned around, it was that same passageway with that same three doors. So I believe, we don't die, our bodies disintegrate but with energy and he's living there, he's living there with us, with all of us, that was maybe his happiest moment and that's where you'll be.

[00:34:46] When was that experience when you visited your old home? 2004. So we're moving around your timeline a little bit but I think I have a pretty good sense of things. So you brought up the memoir title, is this the time to tell me your ideas? Well, I've actually started writing about my narcolepsy. I think I wrote about 40,000 words and the name of that, the narcolepsy autobiography but the name is not a short story. So you get it? So it's a little meta as we would say. Yeah.

[00:35:16] All right, but I have to tell you something. Just because you say it's not a short story doesn't give you license to write something that's so long that we can't get through it. If it's for the reader, you got to keep us in mind as well, please, okay? Now what are the other ideas as you drink I was just thinking I'm a non-alcoholic bear. I was just thinking, you know, as I write WTF, what if I'm dying for good drugs? All right, I like it. Not bad, not bad. What else? Any other ideas? No,

[00:35:46] not really, but I write, I've written so many poems. My sculptures that I make, it's all really dark. So your art tends to lean towards the quote-unquote dark side. What is the narcolepsy you have said or you'd said earlier, I'm paraphrasing, kind of stole some of your life. The time that it's stolen, what is the stuff that you are most angry or upset about or wish it hadn't stolen? Is it time with people? Is it time with making art?

[00:36:15] Is it time with whatever? Yes, it's all of those. I'm awake a lot at night. I get really short. I turn around about 22 times in an hour and I wake up every time doing it. Do you sleep in the same bed as your partner? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Most of the time, yeah, we want to, I want to know, sometimes I want to know where she is because I get hallucinations that she's gone or something's happened to her. I had dreams my boys were kidnapped out of the house and I'll go to their room and after that I'll often go to their room and lie on the floor next to the beds

[00:36:45] and sleep there. So when it comes time to where it's dark out most people are getting ready for bed, that's the, some people have a ritual or some sort of, you know, they prepare. That must be like a weird time for you because you know you're going to be dealing with this shit all night. I don't, I want to say I'm an anxious person because, you know, I'm a South African African off on my own, you know, I'm not scared of anything but going to be at night this, oh God, I'll try and stay awake

[00:37:15] as late as I can. And the strange thing is they say Professor Matthew Walker he wrote a book of Promise to Sleep and he did a study and he said the best time for narcoleptics to sleep is from 2 to 5 in the morning. Then we get the best quality sleep. Not quantity but quality. I'm kind of already doing it. A couple of weeks ago what tempted you to look for something with suicide in the name? Well, for that when I said to you Monk's painting Scream I'm just trying

[00:37:45] to find somebody to talk to. I don't know you from anywhere and I thought social media no, there's narcolepsy groups on there and that's no, I can't do it and all these people with their little comments I don't get offended by stuff I often troll people a little bit you know, just to have some fun but that's not the place to go and actually I mean, you can't give me advice as such but you can of course say things and I'll go like yeah shit that makes sense you know but it's just I thought wow, a pot I can actually

[00:38:15] fucking talk to somebody and you've done I've listened now I tried to listen to as many as I could because I had my doubts a little bit after I sent an email it was kind of a cry you know, like jeez I just need something and then I listened to you talking to people and I thought no, I would like to talk to this guy too I want a chance as well

[00:39:01] I appreciate about two and a half hours south he comes up regularly and I sat him down I've got a policy with my boys be honest if you are in trouble you have to be honest with me because if you lie to me I can't help you the oldest one he got into a little bit of trouble and he phoned me immediately he told me everything you know like straight up I said okay now we can work on this the youngest came and I sat him down and I said I have to tell you something I don't really have to tell you this you might never know and I know if I do it

[00:39:31] I don't know what the effect would be but after he cried so he's 21 he's got a beard he's into this Viking reenactment stuff he cried and he said to me that he's seen me all these years struggling with this but I didn't know I didn't realize they noticed but of course the oldest one I had him also on the weekend same thing he said to me you know I've seen you struggle I know I tell you

[00:40:01] but the youngest one you can ask me if I would do it again between the hospital and before I spoke to my youngest son I was kind of I was still there you know but after I spoke to him I realized damn you know I'm going to ruin a lot of lives when you say you spoke to him you said you tried to you spoke to him about suicide yeah I told him the truth about all of them all of it yeah all for all for yeah they know they don't know

[00:40:31] about the time I ran and the time I said all the time I thought you know that was kind of in my head but I told him about my dog because it's about my dog and now this time I really thought I took enough but I think again because of my narcolepsy you know or maybe my build I maybe need more you need more to have died so sort of your narcolepsy in a way might have kept you alive but tired alive but tired not a winner but not a bad memoir title

[00:41:00] so they know who knows that other than your partner who helped you with your tech setup that you're talking to a stranger about suicide yeah she knows I've got a I've got a good friend he's got epilepsy he struggles for kind of same kind of stuff he doesn't know completely the details you know he would come to me also when he's a little bit in a tough spot and then he'll just sit a little bit and talk because he's much younger than me he's maybe in his studies other than I think the ambulance people know and this doctor

[00:41:29] and nurse know yeah how about your suicide who knows that you're talking to me oh talking to you my wife and my sons they know they know exactly what you're talking about suicide you didn't dance around it I'm a very straightforward I put both my feet a lot of times in my mouth both of them both of them at times so when you you said you went to the hospital the last time did you ever go to a mental health facility no and I won't yeah I did after I was diagnosed I asked if I could see a psychiatrist and then when I got there

[00:41:59] I asked him for a piece of paper and an envelope and he looked at me and said okay and he gave it to me and I wrote something I put it in the envelope and I said keep it because I'm going to ask you at some point to open it and I saw him for maybe five times like the last time he said to me you know I think maybe we should prescribe you something I said open that envelope and I wrote to them in the end you're going to try and get me on drugs you're not going to help me well two things hang on so one why did you bother even going in the first place because narcolepsy is a neurological

[00:42:29] condition with a psychological when we get cataplexy for instance that is a dip in muscle tone it starts in the face you lose the tension the ability to keep your head up at times I have fallen but it happens because of mainly three things fear anger and laughter now I get the anger and the laughter now why now I will tell you a joke usually it's a little bit warm in the room

[00:42:57] having something sweet maybe some wine or something now I'm telling a joke and I know it's funny or you tell the joke and at the point where I want to laugh I lose tone and my muscle and the laughter goes away so I know that laughter is something because it just disappears and it causes you to collapse yeah then I collapse but I know it's funny I know it was as funny as hell but the actual laughter gets stopped

[00:43:27] that feeling that feeling that you that really sucks because that laughter is good laughter is medicine as they say can happen with orgasm as well alright so orgasms laughter I'm glad you can still have an orgasm so orgasms laughter fear at the point Sean it's at the point when you get there everything happens everything happens but that feeling the feeling so you're saying and alright this is R-rated

[00:43:57] so if this is gonna make you feel uncomfortable and I don't know why it would to my audio hit pause but you're saying at the moment of climax this feeling takes over and you kind of the pleasure part is gone I delivered the package but the pleasure part is gone but your wife is pleased yeah she's pleased the reason I said there's two parts I asked the question why did you see the doctor the psychiatrist or psychologist I wanted to find out if they said do they work together the neurologist

[00:44:26] and psychiatry are they can I get them kind of together so we can work on this nah but also Martin like when something robs you of your life and affects your life so much that can bring on depression that can bring on all kinds of things yes that would make total sense that you'd want to seek psychiatric care for that I have a self-diagnosis which I've told them I've said to them I've got symptomatic depression yeah I'm exhausted it makes me depressed

[00:44:55] when I'm not exhausted I'm a happy guy so if you believe in God aren't you a little angry at God that God gave you this thing no no it's energy it's created it's not a man or a woman it's a force it has created everything it's done you know by the by the eighth day it was done this is just how these we are fucking up I see it's not the force do you think you're going to try to end your life again if I survive my family you know if my boys

[00:45:25] is not there and my wife's not there yeah no well what if the medication that you're on is working you just said you're a happy guy yeah no as long as I can get it you got me there I'll keep on going but you know if I don't have them around I've got to you know still explain this to people and I just I'm tired of doing it do you ever talk to people about your struggles no not much I mean are they available and you choose not to talk to them or is there just no one around who gets it no there's nobody around who gets it you know

[00:45:54] I can't blame people narcolepsy is a really complicated thing well I mean that's the point though it's not just narcolepsy it's you it's your experience in the world yeah but at the end you lose people after a while that's why I said it's not a short story that's the name of the book I know 40,000 words in far fewer words you had sent me an email and in the email I want everyone to know Martin sent me two poems not really about me but to me I'm wondering can I read them yeah you more than welcome the first one

[00:46:24] is is darkness really dark or can I just not see it's another sunny day walking through a different park is life not the cause of death each day's struggle a postponement of the end a fight for life breath by breath is death a porthole a small final step but a giant leap to a happier goal or is it a crime stepping away moving on an end to time if I was only alone not leaving pain behind in hearts I have touched

[00:46:54] on my soul like a heavy stone now alive again and then there was a second one shorter one about your father's death can I read that one yes you're more than welcome I have died when I was very young but kept on living it seems for no one at times a joy at times a gain then I wake up and feel the pain but life grew watered when I cry in a garden of no meaning for soon again I will die

[00:47:23] by Martin's bee we'll use bee as the first we don't need to give full last name people are gonna come in try to find you in rural Norway and who knows what they'll do nicely done well written beautiful thank you I always ask this question about myths or misconceptions for you of course it can relate to anything it's typically around suicide for you certainly it could be around narcolepsy the kind of thing that when or should you hear it makes your blood boil and you want to call bullshit on yeah well

[00:47:53] you know the thing that people say you're a coward you're weak you know what I want to say to them is try it see how much guts attack right but I won't because it is a negative thing at the end of the day for those that's left behind and then you know people would say to you often don't be so negative oh you know that I'm not laughing at that you're right it's ridiculous and then I explain to people I say listen do you understand

[00:48:23] how a magnet works the positive is external and it feeds the negative the negative feeds the positive internal it's one thing you know it just depends on where you are at that moment but you will move you will you know don't be so negative what the hell why are you so positive because you're now in the positive part I'm the negative part I'll be in the positive part soon you'll be in the negative part yeah yeah yeah just move on you know if you should talk to people they are you know this is kind of things that I experienced

[00:48:52] at the time when I was stressed there were some where people failed I think quickly it was a guy he took his complete top jaw his nose and one eye out and then of course he was then trialled for firing a firearm in a public area and another guy he had some he had a bit of history and then his wife said I'm going you know he was a little bit of abusive and he had a big I think it was a 44 magnum and he told

[00:49:22] I'm going to shoot myself and she was packing her stuff and as she walked towards the door he took the gun and he had second thoughts and then he shot himself here on the shoulder not realizing he's got this you know this bone at the back so he had this huge hole so um the ambulance crew basically he was I'm in pain I'm in pain and the ambulance guy just pressed on the wound and he passed out you know and then there was a man I felt really sorry for you it was in a wheelchair he took a .22 rifle

[00:49:51] and he tried to shoot himself in the bathroom and he shot through his chest and through the door and of course I was called out the uniformed police was on their way there we had to break down the door and then he was now wounded but alive and at some point I had to attend court a lot um you know after suicide we had to attend the post mortems and then I had to go and testify because the professor of doctors couldn't be in the court all the time and I saw him

[00:50:20] there in his wheelchair you know he was now charged for firing a firearm he was in his bathroom well so wait he tried to end his life with a gun but that was illegal the firing of a gun firing of yeah a gun in a what do you call it a suburban area is that the right thing but then there's a reason there are judges and judges have discretion yeah but they're so busy you know so the guy that tried to kill himself and what happened to him does he go to jail um

[00:50:49] I'm not sure really what happened to him in the end but yeah he could have done sometimes I've talked to some people who are whether they're police officers or EMS or you know who deal with finding people who have tried to end their life sometimes successfully sometimes not so it's part of life it's part of this conversation and it matters um so fictional fiction you're writing a non-fiction book called not a short story I've got a fictional pill

[00:51:18] that's pink and purple what it does if you take it is you go to sleep you don't wake up there's never any pain you can dream any dream you want I know what kind of dreams you tend to want to dream and sometimes you don't pick the ones I would pick and no one knows it's a suicide you know 58 year old Martins in Norway just just died you know uh what would you do with it if I gave it to you right now no keep it you're gonna save it why save it well if I'm if I end up being alone you know and um this

[00:51:48] this problem with not sleeping because I still don't have something that there's nothing that helps with normal sleep if I if I smoke something you know it takes away that the anxiety of going to bed plus when I wake up I fall asleep easier taking this medication I have at the moment helps a lot at night but I still wake up sleep deprivation can lead to things like dementia you know some mental things so if I get to that point yeah I'd rather I'd rather go right

[00:52:17] so I'll save it save it save it save it so much save when you when you look at people that commit suicide you know I've got I've put them in kind of three categories now you have the Epstein if if he did I don't know but you have those um who's committed a crime you know who's done something and they know they're gonna be done for it you know those kind of people and then you have the Robin Williams I don't know if he was sick

[00:52:47] or anything but it was nobody expected it this guy was funny as hell you have those ones but no but he did have he did have a certain kind of disease so I'm looking when I look at these three where I put myself and the third one is Marvin E. Mayer it's a guy who took the bulldozer and made it into attack right there was a movie about that yeah now I'm closer to that guy at the moment I want to take a bulldozer to these medical institutions aha

[00:53:18] I've been asking I've been shouting you guys kind of like oh move to the Netherlands or you know like if I'm not really alone you know these people that are important my life is gone I would I'm you know a Viking boat you know build a boat and then plan it so that you you take something and fall asleep and you hold the flame and this thing is loaded you know and you just go I think you've put a lot of thought in the different ways you could go

[00:53:47] that's amazing I shouldn't talk too much because with my blacksmithing and stuff I do I've got gas and lots of stuff oh you've got stuff that can be dangerous and lethal yeah so I'm just that was just for entertainment ah sure a couple of questions though in terms of just like things people do regularly that if they fall asleep while they're doing them are dangerous the first one that comes to mind is driving yeah this is this is something which is I always try to explain you know when I'm when I do

[00:54:17] make a sculpture you know which is something I create from nothing I find this almost adrenaline rush because I'm busy I'm focusing there's something that drives me to focus yeah there's chemicals that are keeping you awake driving a car you know I hate listening to a radio well you know I've got a heavy truck driving license so for me it's I want to hear everything of this vehicle I want to hear if there's something wrong you know so I can stop fix it you know I'm interested

[00:54:47] in how the mechanics of it and how it works so that kind of binds me but there are times that I have to pull off but I do have time listen this sleep attack is not epilepsy we know it's coming we can pull off we can go and lie down oh so when you start to feel it how much time goes by before you when you go to sleep that depends it depends on how many bad nights I had we would call it how many nights of REM sleep you had you have been extremely articulate and alert

[00:55:16] throughout this conversation which means I'm taking full credit for that because if I were really boring you probably would have been like yes you could make some Sean pulls exactly you haven't asked me if I would share this with other people oh that's right that's actually one of the questions that I consistently forget to ask and I don't know why it's a two part question one are you going to listen to it and then yes are you going to share it so other people hear it yeah I'll listen to it but I've told my boys of course and if they want

[00:55:45] to listen to it I'll send them the link my wife can listen to it as much as I would like to help you to get this your podcast out and get people if I know about someone that feels this way I would tell them I would say listen go go and listen to this guy oh yeah yeah please do please do but the way I found it and I think a lot of the people that you've spoken to we typed in suicide so I and your podcast is really I think important for those people that's going to type in that word I would like to believe so too

[00:56:15] and when they start listening to some of the people I think I hope that people will go like you know I mean maybe I can find a way around it yeah yeah yeah it's not for everybody but for those that it is for I think or have been told it's helpful you don't talk about it enough no it's just like taboo thing you know me coming from from a conservative background South Africa Afrikaans you know the suicides I investigated I was kind of I was kind of the guy

[00:56:44] at times I felt like like people would try not to walk too close kind of thing because I spent some time in the morgue I had for years nightmares about the morgue it's a yeah it's like a shun thing it's like you know ooh bad it's terrible it helps nobody I had a cousin I think my oldest cousin he knew my father very well and he always said to me I want to talk to you and tell you all about your father and his wife they met I think the day they started talking they were together their whole life

[00:57:14] her father had mentioned a lot of things and he died really hard and you know they had to look after him it took years and then she was diagnosed and she was really small he's tall she was really small lovely person and then the children all went out I think the two children were still at school or maybe one at university her husband went to work and when they went out in South Africa you've got security gates you know because of the car she held herself on the security gate and I was and I'm thinking

[00:57:43] she was alone she couldn't tell anybody because they would have tried to stop it and she didn't want them to deal with her the way they had to deal with her father but I've always started to think she was so small such a lovely person and she had to go put a belt around and hang her from a security gate and then a year later my cousin hung himself as well but we don't talk about it we don't talk about it yeah the whole family is like woo and it's because we've got these two worlds you've got

[00:58:12] your internal world and the external world who you are in here nobody can know they only know who you are when you express yourself and when you act that's the observation of you it's kind of it's also kind of difficult to actually get someone to understand what's going on yeah really hard for sure what other questions do I need to ask you should I ask you did I ask you every question well you didn't ask me if I regret anything and oh man you're a tough interviewee

[00:58:42] because you were looking at every single question and you're keeping me on point but no no hang on hang on I gotta push back a little bit I asked you but it was a little bit more specific about what the narcolepsy stole and what you you know and the time and the relationships not exactly the same so yeah do you regret anything including the unsuccessful suicide attempts yeah I regret it I didn't do it alone you know that my wife was here

[00:59:12] and she's got to deal with this and you ask if I've got somebody to talk to does she have someone to talk to you know she picked me up at the hospital and it was like a two and a half hour drive back I slept a lot of it because I slept this Saturday or the Sunday a lot now we're back at like normal she hasn't really told me exactly she told me I collapsed on the floor and she had to try and she slapped me through my face to try and keep me awake she probably slapped your face for other reasons too but okay

[00:59:41] maybe there was a couple of slaps for that reason don't blame her she punched me and then you know she had to call the ambulance and had to deal with them coming in to the hospital yeah you know we live in a very small town you know I told the police don't tell me who was ambulance people because I just don't want to see them if I have to go to town because they'll they'll recognize you you're a recognizable guy yeah they all kind of know me because I'm a loud South African no Sean you're doing

[01:00:10] you're doing a good thing honestly thank you I appreciate that man I appreciate it I tell my guests you know if people don't find this and reach out and show up and talk then I don't have a podcast to do so it goes both ways you know thank you for the platform just an open conversation a little joking laughing yeah and serious stuff you know it was great I'm glad that you that you were able to do it I appreciate it a lot I get a lot out of it too it's not it's sort of medicine for me yeah but how did you start

[01:00:40] I mean I know I know some of the you had a friend but then you you started the podcast but how did you find the first person I think the first strategy I had was I found suicide attempt survivor groups I messaged the person who runs the group and I say I've got this idea so I found a couple people and then I had like friends or friends of friends so once I had a couple episodes then it got a little bit more easy than one with permission in a place like Facebook and once they gave me permission

[01:01:10] I would post it and say and if you want to hear hear it so that you can like know that I'm not some just weird dude who's trying to be an asshole you can decide for yourself and reach out and so it kind of grew from that and at some point I didn't have to do any of that you know there was it was big enough that people would just keep emailing me and and not everybody who emails me ends up talking some of them it's scary you know yeah there is that element of shame you know and there's that element I feel it with my wife and I told her I said to her you know

[01:01:39] I feel like I have to every day first thing I have to say to you is I'm sorry you know because there was a time I said to her I won't I won't do it I won't you know and I'm a liar I've done it so I have to I just feel like I have to apologize every time she's you don't have to but I just feel you know I'm sure your wife lovely woman who helped you help the tech setup I saw her for a moment it is somewhat of a burn it is hard living with you probably it is

[01:02:09] it's not easy you know she works at times she worked four jobs you know I do what I can I make wood in the forest on the friend's farm you know I try and do my sculptures try and do this I took winter times I'll take snow up the roofs so it doesn't get too heavy I try and do what I can but she's the one that earns the money you know I've got nothing to my name shit yeah no it's terrible and it's part of it you know

[01:02:39] and it gets caught up in that net of narcolepsy you know like I kind of oh that's your excuse I've been I've been as 100% disabled although I'm able you know but that's the system and how this system works but but I cannot go I cannot expect you to employ me and then have to make room for me to sleep five times during the day yeah yeah you fall in between the cracks you really do yeah the fact that I've now

[01:03:08] wanted to kill myself and then now get the medicine finally that they don't want to give to me which I've asked for I'm still going to try and get my income and make as much as I can the wrong place Norway is a Norway is a art desert terrible when I was in the UK sold so much stuff in the UK but yeah it's it's dead and that's also part of it I make jewelry now you know I make recycled jewelry I can sell that I'm a little bit of access but everything costs money

[01:03:37] to be a blacksmith you know you've got it after cold so I'm trying to build this up now I feel shit it's absolute shit that my wife has to work her arse off now I feel shit yeah for sure that makes sense man yeah so you are eight hours ahead of me what's so like because this is the this is getting to be evening time is this where it gets to be the most uncomfortable for you no no you've you've you're a good pull what does that mean you've been keeping me awake all right well I'm not standing up all

[01:04:07] fucking night with you I got a life to live but but you're getting towards the time where most people go to bed yeah no you've you've spent you've spent a good time and I really appreciate it I like the structure you've got you know people can take those questions can think about it bring things together and it's amazing and yeah is there a question you that I don't ask that you'd want me to add to that list that you think is important yes I actually was thinking about one tell me no I just can't remember no actually because I wrote it down I copied all your questions and wrote

[01:04:36] made notes well you can always message me and let me know I can add it to the list if I like it but wasn't it one of your oh yeah any words to your younger self yeah I don't ask that question that much but do you want to answer that one yeah don't take any vaccines no my narcolepsy came from most likely 1975 the first swine flu in Norway and the UK 2009 they gave the people pandemrics and thousands got narcolepsy they've got the best study

[01:05:05] on narcolepsy in the world in Norway that is also one of my frustrations because I'm not part of the 2009 group maybe you had mentioned you had a motorcycle accident or a bike accident but maybe that caused the adsepsis and that caused the autoimmune response because narcolepsy is an autoimmune disorder it's my immune system that attacks my body right right because you're saying there might be a connection to the vaccine as well and who knows what the long term effects

[01:05:35] of the covid vaccines are who knows yeah you know I did it's in 2019 that's when it started yeah 2020 but yeah I mean technically probably 2019 the 29th of December 2019 I sent a Freedom of Prevention Act request in through our mayor to the health department to ask for proof they couldn't answer me and I sent it off same exact question same email to another person she asked they couldn't answer her you're just flying blind and everyone's telling you you gotta do it and it's free and you just go do it black

[01:06:04] Africans now they said sorry white man's disease they don't trust that shit no way goodbye not a chance I bet by and large and I have no data on this that African Americans probably as a percentage were far less likely to get the vaccine because of the historical they don't this whole African American thing but anyway they can do it I was born in Africa I'm more African than most of them you know our body and our body are new like it's kind of a seven year cycle so if you live somewhere

[01:06:34] then you're kind of part of that like I'm now Norwegian because I've eaten from the land but Africans in Africa they don't trust this shit they go to the Tsangoma which is the doctor in Zulu they don't trust it and I can't blame them I don't blame them either because I grew up speaking Tsutu which is a language a big part in the northern part of South Africa and then later when I was in forestry I learned to speak Zulu wow and there

[01:07:04] they're very rural still very rural people and now they're struggling now with heart disease these problems since the near South Africa you see so many diseases now among them which I never had before right not a coincidence no sadly not it is all energy still yeah some of the energy is alive in our limited vocabulary and some of it is alive in a different way where it's dead but it's not

[01:07:33] but we are still here we are okay Sean thank you very much you are very welcome Martin I've enjoyed the talk you know and it's a weird thing to say but more than anybody I have ever spoken to I really hope you get a good night's rest thank you very much take care my friend I've got six months to go and then I'm gonna make sure I'm hoping for you man I'm hoping for you thank you okay bye bye bye as always thanks so much for

[01:08:03] listening and all of your support special thanks to Martins in Norway thank you Martins if you are a suicide attempt survivor or ideator and you'd like to talk I'd love to talk with you please reach out hello at suicidenoted dot com and if you are an incredibly wealthy human being who wants to help somebody grow I'd love to talk that's all for this week's episode stay strong do the best you can

[01:08:33] I'll talk to you soon