M in Iowa

[00:00:00] It was in that moment that I realized that something had shifted in me, something that like I cannot ask for help because I don't believe that anyone can help me.

[00:00:51] Just to be clear, I am not referring to people who are talking about it, but those who are engaged with them in a conversation, listening, essentially.

[00:01:00] So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors in large part to help more people in more places hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone.

[00:01:12] Now, if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:01:15] Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or X at Suicide Noted.

[00:01:21] And you can learn more about this podcast, including our membership as well as our new training in the show notes.

[00:01:29] Check it out if that's your thing.

[00:01:31] If you're curious, there's all kinds of cool stuff in there.

[00:01:33] You can help us out right now by rating and reviewing the Suicide Noted podcast.

[00:01:38] It really helps people find it.

[00:01:39] And of course, we want more people to find it.

[00:01:41] Finally, we are talking about suicide on this podcast.

[00:01:45] And I don't hold back.

[00:01:47] So please take that into account before you listen or as you listen.

[00:01:50] But I do hope you listen because there's so much to learn.

[00:01:54] Today, I am talking with Em.

[00:01:56] Em lives in Iowa and she is a suicide attempt survivor.

[00:02:03] Hello, Em.

[00:02:05] What's going on?

[00:02:06] You all right?

[00:02:06] Yeah.

[00:02:07] Are you nervous?

[00:02:08] Yes, just a little.

[00:02:10] Can you tell me about that?

[00:02:11] This isn't a subject that I would talk about normally.

[00:02:14] People would probably say that.

[00:02:16] It's a subject that has caused me a lot of pain due to how other people have responded

[00:02:23] in the past.

[00:02:23] And so for me to talk about it outside the walls of a therapist's office is a big deal.

[00:02:30] I don't think I would do it unless I knew that by me talking about it, other people who

[00:02:35] are going through the same thing could benefit from it.

[00:02:37] If me talking about it helps break the stigma that suicide has to stay quiet, then it's

[00:02:45] worth it in my opinion.

[00:02:46] Well, I appreciate that as I'm sure people who hear you will as well.

[00:02:51] And thank you for trusting me.

[00:02:53] Em in Iowa mentioned in your email.

[00:02:55] Are you a nurse?

[00:02:56] I work in the hospital.

[00:02:57] I'm not a nurse.

[00:02:58] I work in a lab.

[00:02:59] Are you at work now?

[00:03:00] No, I'm at home.

[00:03:02] Yeah.

[00:03:02] I just got home like 15 minutes ago.

[00:03:04] Iowa.

[00:03:05] Yeah.

[00:03:06] It was actually your recent podcast with someone in Iowa, Conrad, that kind of was

[00:03:11] the moment I was like, maybe I should say something.

[00:03:14] Hey, Conrad, if you're listening, do you know the lake he was talking about?

[00:03:18] I don't know.

[00:03:20] One of my attempts actually happened in kind of that vicinity.

[00:03:24] Oh, maybe we'll talk about that.

[00:03:26] Would you be upset if I called Iowa a flyover state?

[00:03:29] I need to know where I am, like understand the landscape of our connection here.

[00:03:33] No, I would say whenever I am flying home from somewhere to Iowa and I'm at the airport

[00:03:39] and I see all these people at the gate, I'm like, why are all these people coming to Iowa?

[00:03:44] Em in Iowa and you're a multiple suicide attempt survivor.

[00:03:48] And I know that because you shared it with me when we had a few exchanges via email.

[00:03:52] Yeah.

[00:03:53] Now there was a period of time where you reached out, you weren't ready, you weren't sure,

[00:03:57] and then you reached back out and you're like, I think I'm ready.

[00:04:00] And I'm wondering where are you now that you're like, yeah, I'm going to talk to this dude.

[00:04:03] Yeah.

[00:04:04] When I first reached out, it was after Conrad because I was like, oh, someone else from

[00:04:08] Iowa is talking about this.

[00:04:10] Okay.

[00:04:10] Maybe that's okay.

[00:04:12] Not that I thought the podcast was out there by any means, but it just felt out of my scope

[00:04:18] of my world.

[00:04:19] I think it felt like something I could never do, even though I don't know this guy.

[00:04:23] It was just the geographical proximity that kind of led me to feel like, okay, this is

[00:04:28] coming close.

[00:04:29] But yeah, when you first reached out and you're like, I don't really know if you actually want

[00:04:33] to talk.

[00:04:33] I was like, that is so fair because I don't know either.

[00:04:36] In my head, I was like, I probably wouldn't.

[00:04:39] Recently, my depression has gotten significantly worse.

[00:04:42] A lot of people in my life don't know how bad it's gotten.

[00:04:45] And when I reached out the second time, I was and am not sure how much I have left in

[00:04:53] me.

[00:04:53] So it was kind of like, if I want to make something out of everything that I've been through

[00:04:58] now's the time, I don't want to wait anymore.

[00:05:01] I can't have been through all of this for no reason.

[00:05:04] And I do not think that I have been through it for no reason.

[00:05:08] If I can help it, I'd like to do something while I still can.

[00:05:10] It might be a thing where people like me also just feel like they wouldn't talk about it

[00:05:16] unless it was like their Hail Mary, like their last kind of...

[00:05:20] Yeah.

[00:05:20] Is this a Hail Mary for you?

[00:05:22] It kind of feels like that.

[00:05:23] I don't know if I can admit that to myself because when I think about me ending my life,

[00:05:29] I feel very disappointed in myself.

[00:05:30] How'd you find the podcast?

[00:05:32] Yeah.

[00:05:32] It actually hasn't even been a year since I started listening.

[00:05:35] My most recent, most severe suicide attempt was last October.

[00:05:40] It was in the months leading up to that.

[00:05:42] I'm not saying there was any causation or correlation with that.

[00:05:45] It was just kind of in that headspace.

[00:05:47] So when you're thinking about suicide all the time, it's hard to keep it all inside.

[00:05:51] Not like in the sense that I feel like I'm just going to go blab it to the world.

[00:05:55] It's like, if I don't have an outlet for this, I will probably explode somehow.

[00:06:01] And it'll hurt even more.

[00:06:02] To kind of be able to put my AirPods in and just kind of be in this world where it's not

[00:06:07] okay to say how I'm feeling, but have this place to retreat to and where it is okay for

[00:06:13] people to say things that everyone knows is happening, but no one's saying.

[00:06:16] It feels very comforting because I couldn't think of anyone in my life that I wanted to

[00:06:21] talk to directly about what was going on.

[00:06:24] So even if I wasn't a part of the conversation, just being able to hear the things that were

[00:06:29] already going through my mind from someone else was helpful.

[00:06:33] Having gone through what you've gone through, which I think we're going to talk about at

[00:06:36] least in part.

[00:06:37] We all know what's going on, but we don't want to talk about it.

[00:06:40] Do you have any idea why that is?

[00:06:42] Why no one wants to talk about it?

[00:06:44] Not no one, but not many.

[00:06:46] Why not many people?

[00:06:47] People who probably haven't gone through it.

[00:06:49] I would say they're the ones who are especially turned off when people bring up the subject.

[00:06:55] Honestly, I think it's in my own personal experience, I feel like people think it's selfish.

[00:07:00] Often I get very explosive responses of like, well, how could you even think about doing

[00:07:04] that?

[00:07:04] And how could you think of hurting me like this and things like that?

[00:07:08] I feel like it's such an emotionally charged subject that you can't just casually talk about

[00:07:14] it with someone who maybe hasn't lived through it because they don't understand the difference

[00:07:17] maybe between passive and active suicidality and like, oh, I have a plan.

[00:07:22] I'm going to go do this.

[00:07:23] Like that kind of thing.

[00:07:24] I don't know why I have such harsh feelings towards people who respond that way because

[00:07:29] I'm imagining most of them mean well and they're afraid.

[00:07:32] But if I'm being completely honest here, I feel like every time somebody says, for example,

[00:07:38] how could you do that?

[00:07:40] How could you do that to me?

[00:07:41] I'm like, you are putting a nail in the coffin.

[00:07:44] So you find it, you listen, you reach out.

[00:07:48] Here we are.

[00:07:48] And in some ways, a Hail Mary.

[00:07:50] No, I don't think that's your memoir title, but you said-

[00:07:52] Lots of therapists have told me I should write a memoir.

[00:07:55] Yes!

[00:07:56] Just make me the person who gets to title it and then we're good.

[00:08:00] You are 25 years old, correct?

[00:08:02] Yes.

[00:08:03] You have multiple attempts.

[00:08:05] The most serious or the most recent, I should say, was less than a year ago.

[00:08:10] Yep.

[00:08:10] Do you remember the first time in which you started to seriously contemplate ending your

[00:08:15] life?

[00:08:15] The lines get a little blurry because even before I think I consciously thought about

[00:08:20] ending my life, I got sick with anorexia.

[00:08:24] When I was 12 going on 13, I experienced something pretty traumatic and then something else traumatic

[00:08:32] in back-to-back succession.

[00:08:34] And I was only 12.

[00:08:35] I didn't really know how to cope with that.

[00:08:38] And I've always been the type of person to very much keep what I'm feeling on the inside.

[00:08:43] I didn't really have anyone I felt safe talking to about what happened or anything.

[00:08:48] I didn't even want to admit to myself what was going on.

[00:08:51] So I just poured myself into sports, overexercising, not eating to numb out.

[00:08:56] And I think I knew on some level that I was only headed for death.

[00:09:02] Death didn't scare me.

[00:09:04] And so I think in some ways that kind of was the first little inkling of suicidality.

[00:09:08] It's just the fact that I wasn't concerned if I lived or died.

[00:09:12] Frankly, probably would have wanted to die.

[00:09:14] I was in eighth grade when I really started to restrict my intake and just overexercise and

[00:09:21] stuff.

[00:09:22] And then it was the winter of my freshman year of high school when I was finally hospitalized

[00:09:28] in ICU.

[00:09:29] They told my parents they didn't know if I was going to make it.

[00:09:32] Can I ask you a question, knowing very little about anorexia?

[00:09:35] Yeah.

[00:09:36] You use this expression, not eating to numb out.

[00:09:39] Yeah.

[00:09:39] What does that mean?

[00:09:40] For me, at least when I don't eat, it kind of shuts down my emotions because your body's

[00:09:47] so focused on just staying alive that it just kind of makes you dull and just kind of numbs

[00:09:52] everything out.

[00:09:53] It all just kind of becomes very flat.

[00:09:55] The way you perceive the world and the way you exist in it just becomes very blah.

[00:09:59] That was much better than experiencing the low lows.

[00:10:02] It's like you cut out the high highs, but you also cut out the low lows.

[00:10:05] So you're just steady.

[00:10:09] Hospitalized your freshman year.

[00:10:11] Does the hospitalization your freshman year for, we call it an eating, do you like the word

[00:10:16] disorder?

[00:10:16] Does that feel okay?

[00:10:17] Yeah.

[00:10:18] Eating disorder is okay.

[00:10:19] Yeah.

[00:10:19] Eating disorder.

[00:10:20] Does it help?

[00:10:21] It fixes the physical.

[00:10:23] I was in the ICU for five days in a regular room for another five days.

[00:10:28] And then I was transferred to an eating disorder treatment center 12 hours away from my home.

[00:10:35] 14 years old, forced to be with strangers, doing the most terrifying thing I've ever done

[00:10:41] away from my parents and my sister.

[00:10:43] It was a very difficult time, especially because for the first month, I didn't even believe I

[00:10:48] had an eating disorder.

[00:10:50] I just thought like, these people are crazy.

[00:10:53] I just can't keep my weight up because I'm running all the time.

[00:10:57] Like, I don't know.

[00:10:59] I think deep down, I knew I did.

[00:11:01] And eventually that came out, but it took like the first month of me being there.

[00:11:05] So how long was the whole stay?

[00:11:07] That time I was there for four months.

[00:11:09] How many other times have there been?

[00:11:11] More than 20.

[00:11:13] Various reasons?

[00:11:14] Primarily my eating disorder, but they go, it goes hand in hand.

[00:11:17] And oftentimes my eating disorder has been entangled more than once with suicide attempts

[00:11:23] as a method, kind of.

[00:11:25] Well, as a method, but I was thinking more just straight up cause.

[00:11:29] Correlation.

[00:11:30] Yeah.

[00:11:30] One of the two.

[00:11:31] I don't want to get all psychobabbling.

[00:11:32] It's not my jam.

[00:11:33] When you've talked to therapists, maybe even ones that you liked or trusted, when you talk

[00:11:38] about like root causes, was it related to, at least in part, these traumatic experiences

[00:11:43] when you were 12, 13?

[00:11:44] I do think so.

[00:11:46] I was definitely having a lot of body image problems earlier on in my life, like even before

[00:11:52] junior high.

[00:11:53] But those two events were definitely the big triggers that made me take it a step further

[00:11:59] to the point where I was like doing it to a dangerous extent, I guess, not eating, overexercercise.

[00:12:05] Yeah.

[00:12:06] How old are you for your first attempt?

[00:12:08] My first suicide attempt was when I was 18, but I had been ideating for so much longer before

[00:12:16] that.

[00:12:16] Right.

[00:12:16] It was during my first eating disorder treatment stay that someone actually asked me for the

[00:12:22] first time if I was having suicidal thoughts.

[00:12:24] No one had ever asked me that before.

[00:12:26] And I feel like that was a big turning point because yeah, I just had never put two and two

[00:12:31] together and no one had ever like made it okay to like verbalize that.

[00:12:35] I mean, I was only 14.

[00:12:37] So my psychiatrist there was kind of the first person to ask me.

[00:12:41] And once I returned home, it was really difficult to maintain friendships.

[00:12:45] Um, I think people were kind of weirded out by the fact that I had an eating disorder.

[00:12:50] I feel like anorexia is something that's very stigmatized.

[00:12:53] I felt like people were walking on eggshells around me.

[00:12:56] I just didn't feel like I could ever go back to the life I was living for.

[00:13:00] And that was really hard for me.

[00:13:03] It was something I felt like I had to grieve.

[00:13:04] I felt like I lost a lot of my independence because my parents were like trying to make

[00:13:08] sure I didn't relapse and do anything bad and got into a deeper and deeper depression

[00:13:13] throughout high school.

[00:13:15] And that was when I started self-harming my sophomore year.

[00:13:18] I think I was, it was around my 16th birthday that I started self-harming and then, um, having

[00:13:24] more like suicidal thoughts.

[00:13:26] And at 18 is number one.

[00:13:28] Yep.

[00:13:28] Yes.

[00:13:29] Pills.

[00:13:30] So here's the thing about a lot of my attempts.

[00:13:32] I feel like there's kind of like a tier system of like, not necessarily less serious to more

[00:13:38] severe, but like given the means available because many times when I needed, cause it felt like

[00:13:45] I needed to attempt because I just needed to, I don't know if that makes sense to you.

[00:13:49] That urge was so strong.

[00:13:50] Um, I was often in treatment because, um, my eating disorder, it was like my coping skill

[00:13:56] and it was being taken away.

[00:13:57] And so when you're in a treatment center, depending on the level of care, there's not a lot of access

[00:14:03] to means.

[00:14:04] And so I was doing it with whatever I could get my hands on.

[00:14:07] Um, it didn't necessarily take away from the intent behind it, but some of them weren't

[00:14:13] very serious.

[00:14:14] Just doing anything and everything I could to cause damage to myself.

[00:14:18] So that attempt was from hoarding pills.

[00:14:21] You did it in treatment?

[00:14:23] Yeah.

[00:14:23] Did someone find out?

[00:14:24] Not directly find out.

[00:14:26] Um, I hadn't saved enough to like not wake up the next morning clearly, but I had taken

[00:14:32] it and they take our vitals every morning and my blood pressure was strangely very low

[00:14:37] that day.

[00:14:38] And they caught on and they, they like pulled me aside and asked me, they're like, did

[00:14:42] you do something?

[00:14:43] You don't?

[00:14:44] I did because I think I was just so shocked that they would even like figure it out.

[00:14:49] And I knew it wasn't working at that point anyway.

[00:14:52] So I was like, well, it's not like they're going to prevent it from killing me or something.

[00:14:56] So like it had already failed.

[00:14:58] And so between 18 and 25 or 24, there were how many attempts?

[00:15:03] I mean, the ones in treatment, like there were periods of months on end where I was in

[00:15:08] like maybe a locked inpatient facility and I was just doing anything and everything,

[00:15:12] like getting super creative, um, which I'm not going to say some of the things cause I

[00:15:16] don't want to give anyone ideas, but just like you couldn't even count probably just

[00:15:21] like a lot.

[00:15:22] And then the more like major attempts as like an adult in my twenties living on my own, I

[00:15:28] would say I had, it's hard because some of them are my eating disorder.

[00:15:32] Like, I don't know if you know, you know, like visa, like voluntary stopping eating and

[00:15:37] drinking as like a suicide attempt method.

[00:15:40] VSED.

[00:15:41] When that will do it.

[00:15:42] It just feels like it's really a fucking painful way to go.

[00:15:45] So that's what my therapist always says.

[00:15:48] She's always telling me, I just want you to know that this is going to be painful and you

[00:15:54] are probably going to be bedridden and you're probably going to die alone and it's going

[00:15:58] to be extremely painful and pain will be the last thing you feel.

[00:16:02] Your therapist can hear that and not immediately send you to a hospital?

[00:16:04] I have been through so many therapists and the one I have right now, I'm very fortunate

[00:16:09] to have.

[00:16:09] She understands me well.

[00:16:12] She doesn't get too freaked out because I think she understands that at baseline, I

[00:16:16] do have a pretty high level of suicidality.

[00:16:19] She's become pretty attuned to knowing my warning signs and she can tell even without

[00:16:25] me saying if she needs to call the police because she can just tell.

[00:16:28] So yeah, we could have like weeks on end of conversations about suicidal ideation.

[00:16:34] So multiple attempts, some of them quite creative, often in treatment.

[00:16:39] The first one at 18, the most recent one last October.

[00:16:43] Was that inpatient or out?

[00:16:45] No, it was out.

[00:16:46] It was on the tails of me trying to end my life by my eating disorder.

[00:16:51] I got very, very sick and my treatment providers went to the courthouse and filed a court order

[00:16:58] to have me committed to the hospital and they didn't tell me.

[00:17:01] So I felt very ambushed in that.

[00:17:03] Finally got out of the hospital, refused to go to eating disorder treatment because I was

[00:17:08] so traumatized after that experience that I just didn't want to trust any medical professional

[00:17:12] ever again.

[00:17:13] So I attempted to recover from my eating disorder at home.

[00:17:17] I tried to wait on my own at home because yeah, that was the only way to stay out of the

[00:17:23] hospital.

[00:17:24] And I did not have adequate support that I would have had in a treatment facility as awful

[00:17:30] as being in a treatment facility would have been.

[00:17:32] But I was convinced that I could do it on my own.

[00:17:34] And eventually it just got to be too much.

[00:17:37] I did gain some weight, but I was nowhere near my full weight.

[00:17:41] Then I started backsliding.

[00:17:42] My thoughts got really dark.

[00:17:44] It seemed to happen very quickly, very fast.

[00:17:47] I was living with my parents at the time because I was so sick.

[00:17:52] I couldn't really do things around the house.

[00:17:55] I couldn't work, like that kind of stuff.

[00:17:56] I should have been in the hospital, but I convinced them to let me move back to my apartment.

[00:18:01] And I did.

[00:18:02] And I tried to go back to work part-time, but work is sometimes a pretty triggering place

[00:18:08] for me.

[00:18:09] Things just got worse and worse and worse pretty quickly.

[00:18:13] October has always been a very difficult month for me.

[00:18:16] I lost a friend to suicide several years ago in October.

[00:18:21] So that was an anniversary that was really hard last year.

[00:18:25] It's kind of hard to remember what snapped in me.

[00:18:28] I just remember one day just kind of testing out my plan, which was suffocation.

[00:18:33] And I realized it wasn't that bad and that I could probably do it.

[00:18:37] After that moment, I realized that I probably wasn't going to be here much longer.

[00:18:43] What happened with that?

[00:18:44] Honestly, I have no idea how I'm still here.

[00:18:47] I duct taped a garbage bag around my head, passed out for three hours because I had sent

[00:18:54] a text to be scheduled from my phone to be sent three hours after I did it to my therapist

[00:19:00] because I didn't want anyone I knew to find me.

[00:19:02] I was like, my parents cannot find me.

[00:19:05] The police have to be the people who find me.

[00:19:06] So I called the police.

[00:19:08] So she did.

[00:19:09] Three hours later, I get woken up by...

[00:19:12] I just remember hurting from the pressure of them ripping the tape and pulling the bag off my head.

[00:19:18] And I remember opening my eyes for one split second and just seeing the police officer and being so confused.

[00:19:24] I'm like, my first thought was, how am I still here?

[00:19:27] What in the world?

[00:19:29] How am I still here?

[00:19:30] And then I went back into that unconsciousness.

[00:19:34] And yeah, I was hospitalized in the ICU for a couple of days.

[00:19:38] The doctors, my parents said they kept telling them, we're so sorry.

[00:19:43] We're so sorry.

[00:19:44] What does that mean?

[00:19:45] That they didn't know what to do.

[00:19:47] I mean, I don't know.

[00:19:48] My therapists have told me that I have nine lives.

[00:19:51] There have been so many situations where I probably shouldn't have survived and I did.

[00:19:56] You think there's some sort of divine intervention going on or you just look?

[00:20:00] Definitely divine intervention.

[00:20:02] My faith is really important to me.

[00:20:03] And sometimes I feel like I get into fistfights with God about whether or not I'm supposed to be here.

[00:20:09] Is that Christian?

[00:20:10] Are you Christian?

[00:20:10] Yeah, I'm a Christian.

[00:20:12] And you get into fistfights with God?

[00:20:14] Mm-hmm.

[00:20:15] If you do write the memoir, okay, you write and title it whatever you want.

[00:20:21] That's, if I have any say, that's good.

[00:20:25] Thank you.

[00:20:26] So your most recent attempt, less than a year ago.

[00:20:29] Yep, less than a year ago.

[00:20:30] And you have not tried since?

[00:20:32] No.

[00:20:33] After that attempt, like I said, it kind of felt like that undeniable, God must have saved my life for a reason.

[00:20:40] There was no other explanation.

[00:20:41] How could I be unconscious under a plastic bag for three hours and come out of that without brain damage?

[00:20:48] Right.

[00:20:49] Any of that.

[00:20:50] It was just kind of like a slap in the face, like, duh, get it together.

[00:20:54] I was very upset.

[00:20:57] Very upset.

[00:20:57] It took me several months.

[00:20:59] And I wouldn't say that I am okay with the fact that I made it through now.

[00:21:03] But it's like, I kind of came to a point of like, okay, I survived.

[00:21:08] And how do I move forward?

[00:21:09] Because I had basically separated myself, said goodbye to every single thing in my life, like detached consciously over the course of about a month before my attempt.

[00:21:20] And so to just be given life again and to be like, okay, now you have to go back and rebuild.

[00:21:27] It was like, I don't even know where to start.

[00:21:29] My treatment team sent me an email while I was still in the ICU.

[00:21:33] They sent it to my parents, too.

[00:21:35] That basically said, we won't see you unless you finish a treatment program again.

[00:21:40] So I felt betrayed.

[00:21:42] I was very upset.

[00:21:44] But I also knew that I had nothing to return to at home either.

[00:21:49] Because I basically said goodbye to everything.

[00:21:51] Work was not going to work out because it was just too triggering.

[00:21:55] So yeah, I went to treatment from the beginning of November until the end of February of this year.

[00:22:01] And you're here and you have a home, right?

[00:22:04] Yeah.

[00:22:05] Does the hospital remain sometimes a triggering place for you?

[00:22:09] Yeah, for a variety of different reasons.

[00:22:12] Hospitals in general are just kind of, which is ironic because I always wanted to go into the medical field.

[00:22:17] But I feel like so often people who work in the medical field and come out of like their own medical experience being like, I want to help people.

[00:22:24] I want to pay it forward.

[00:22:25] Like, I feel like ultimately we just have a bunch of medical professionals who are like trauma survivors, just like continually getting triggered by their own trauma every day when they go to work.

[00:22:34] Like, we mean it with the best intentions.

[00:22:36] But then I personally have realized that sometimes it can just get to be too much.

[00:22:40] When I see suicide attempt pop up on the ED track board or something like that, it's just, it's way too close to home sometimes.

[00:22:47] I was going to be a nurse originally.

[00:22:49] And my first suicide attempt came on the heels of me having to leave college in the first semester because of my ED disorder.

[00:22:57] And me being a straight A student, top of my class in high school, I thought there's no way that I would be the one who had to drop out of college.

[00:23:05] And it just felt like a huge knock.

[00:23:07] I didn't really know who I was anymore.

[00:23:09] Like, I never thought in all my years of school that I wouldn't just go to college for four years and get a degree.

[00:23:15] Like, I just assumed that was going to happen.

[00:23:17] But I had to fight.

[00:23:19] And I had a good period for maybe like four months.

[00:23:23] And that was when I decided I was going to go back to school.

[00:23:27] I don't have like a full bachelor's degree or anything, but I have a certification.

[00:23:31] Hmm.

[00:23:32] Let's just do the pink and purple pull right now.

[00:23:34] For the listeners who don't know, the pink and purple pull question I give to Em, she takes it if she chooses to, of course.

[00:23:41] Sleeps quietly.

[00:23:42] I don't know why it's quietly, but in my mind, it feels quiet.

[00:23:45] Drifts off to sleep.

[00:23:46] No pain.

[00:23:47] Dies.

[00:23:48] Nobody knows the suicide.

[00:23:50] And so the questions I typically ask is, do you take it?

[00:23:54] Do you save it?

[00:23:55] Or do you just get rid of it?

[00:23:57] Right now, like through Zoom, somehow I give it to you.

[00:23:59] I would say there's no doubt in my mind I would take it right now.

[00:24:02] Right now?

[00:24:03] Yeah.

[00:24:04] Would you tell anyone?

[00:24:05] Just fucking do it.

[00:24:05] No, because I wouldn't want anyone to think it's a suicide.

[00:24:09] And the fact with the pill is that no one will know it's a suicide.

[00:24:13] So if I say goodbye, then people would know something about me.

[00:24:16] Right, right.

[00:24:17] And like, it's going to hurt either way, probably for my family particularly.

[00:24:21] I don't think anything I say beforehand is going to make that go away.

[00:24:25] Right, yeah.

[00:24:26] Yeah.

[00:24:27] Do you think maybe you would have answered that question differently if I asked you,

[00:24:33] I don't know, let's say at some point in the past, since you started listening to the podcast?

[00:24:37] I feel like, I mean, over the last almost year of listening to the podcast,

[00:24:42] it's been, my answer's been a little different probably at different stages.

[00:24:46] Yeah.

[00:24:46] And with things being the way they are now, that's my answer.

[00:24:52] If someone were to see you right now, physically, right?

[00:24:56] Like they see you walking to your job from your car, whatever, like would they think,

[00:25:01] does she have an eating disorder?

[00:25:02] Like would they be able to know such a thing?

[00:25:05] I have some people in my life who don't know I have an eating disorder

[00:25:11] and often comment about how skinny I am.

[00:25:15] And it makes me very uncomfortable.

[00:25:18] Yeah.

[00:25:18] Your folks are around.

[00:25:20] Yeah.

[00:25:21] You have siblings?

[00:25:22] I have a sister and a brother-in-law and a niece.

[00:25:25] Do they know some, all, none about what you've been dealing with for the past?

[00:25:31] Well, it's at least like 12 years, but it's-

[00:25:34] Yeah, probably.

[00:25:35] They do to some extent.

[00:25:37] I mean, obviously each time I've attempted the hospitals, made my parents aware of it.

[00:25:43] It gets back to my sister, obviously.

[00:25:45] We're pretty close.

[00:25:46] She lives out on the East Coast, but we're still pretty close.

[00:25:49] I mean, it's been difficult.

[00:25:51] There's obviously a lot of emotions involved.

[00:25:55] We don't talk about it.

[00:25:56] We don't talk about it.

[00:25:57] After my last attempt, we kind of all just pretended it didn't happen as soon as I got out of the hospital.

[00:26:03] It was just kind of like, which part of me was appreciative of.

[00:26:07] And part of me was like, so did that upset you?

[00:26:10] Like, are you okay with me dying?

[00:26:11] Like, it was just kind of a mixed feeling there.

[00:26:14] Yeah.

[00:26:15] Like I always imagine, and I'll ask you, like, what do you think your folks talk about?

[00:26:19] Like, let's say they're at dinner with friends, right?

[00:26:21] And it comes up and they're asking, how's Em doing?

[00:26:24] Do you think that they ever acknowledge it to anyone?

[00:26:28] Ever.

[00:26:29] Even themselves, you know, in bed or on the couch.

[00:26:32] Like, is it ever discussed privately?

[00:26:35] Like the fact that I could die.

[00:26:36] Yeah.

[00:26:37] Yeah.

[00:26:37] Like that she's tried.

[00:26:38] That she might try again.

[00:26:39] That things are not good.

[00:26:41] I really can't picture them talking about it because I'm not used to seeing them talk about it.

[00:26:47] Okay.

[00:26:47] How many people know that we're having this conversation?

[00:26:50] None.

[00:26:51] So there are people in the world, medical professionals, some family that know about

[00:26:56] at least one of your attempts, hospitalizations.

[00:26:59] Yes, they do.

[00:27:00] Most people, I don't know if it's for their sake or for my sake, but they just

[00:27:04] kind of pretend it doesn't exist.

[00:27:06] And just gets kind of awkward.

[00:27:08] Yeah.

[00:27:09] But you had also shared, you don't talk much about this.

[00:27:12] So I'm imagining there's probably not a lot of other people that know about those things.

[00:27:16] You know, outside of the people who have been directly involved or impacted by the attempt.

[00:27:21] So you are living with, as best you can, this stuff.

[00:27:28] And as a part of that, not really having many people to be able to have a conversation with.

[00:27:33] You had mentioned your therapist you can talk to sometimes.

[00:27:38] I don't mean to think on your behalf because you'll tell me if I'm wrong.

[00:27:41] But that is a whole other level of pain or suffering or no.

[00:27:46] Yeah.

[00:27:47] It sometimes feels that way.

[00:27:49] It feels like this was a thought I had last fall, right before my attempt.

[00:27:54] I was at work right before I attempted.

[00:27:58] I had been at work for an hour and I had a massive panic attack and left.

[00:28:02] When I was leaving, my best friend and two of my best friends were there and they saw me

[00:28:09] crying and they wanted to know what was wrong.

[00:28:12] And I just kind of waved them off and they asked again and I said, I'm fine.

[00:28:15] I just need to go home.

[00:28:16] I don't feel well.

[00:28:17] And it was in that moment that I realized that something had shifted in me.

[00:28:22] Something that I cannot ask for help because I don't believe that anyone can help me.

[00:28:28] I genuinely don't think anything anyone could do would make it better.

[00:28:32] So I'd rather just not involve them at all because it's going to be a burden to them and

[00:28:37] it's going to hurt them emotionally and they're going to have to, I don't know, interrupt their

[00:28:41] lives to deal with me.

[00:28:43] If it's going to end the same way, I'd rather just keep it simple.

[00:28:47] I wonder how many people who are hearing this are like nodding their head when they hear

[00:28:51] this.

[00:28:51] I'm really glad to be.

[00:28:53] Yeah.

[00:28:53] Like, of course, M's life's not my life.

[00:28:56] We're different, but I get that.

[00:28:59] No?

[00:29:00] Yeah.

[00:29:01] And it's not that I don't believe they wouldn't want to help me.

[00:29:04] It's just that I have seen it happen so many times where people want so badly to help

[00:29:09] me.

[00:29:09] And when I don't get better, I feel almost like they resent me or they just start to pull

[00:29:16] away eventually.

[00:29:17] And I don't want to ruin my relationship with someone.

[00:29:20] I want to be able to enjoy that friendship while I still have it or while I'm still here.

[00:29:26] I don't want it to be tarnished.

[00:29:28] It's so tricky though, because like not talking about stuff that's so ever present.

[00:29:35] I mean, I'm just speaking for me, like you can have a friendship, but it's like this big

[00:29:38] thing I'm not talking about.

[00:29:39] It's like, it feels off a little bit, at least for me.

[00:29:41] Oh yeah, for sure.

[00:29:43] I listen to this podcast when I'm at work sometimes down in the lab.

[00:29:46] I'm just walking around answering phone calls, take the ear pod out of my ear.

[00:29:51] No one knows what I'm thinking or planning or anything.

[00:29:54] Sometimes I wonder if they can see it on my face.

[00:29:56] And sometimes then I just try to overcompensate.

[00:29:59] It's like that's being.

[00:30:00] Big smiler.

[00:30:01] Yeah.

[00:30:02] I've, over the years, I've gotten really good at just kind of like putting on a show.

[00:30:07] I do it to myself even.

[00:30:08] I don't even let myself see how upset I am sometimes.

[00:30:12] I don't know if that makes sense, but like it's easier to just pretend everything's okay.

[00:30:16] But then you run out of energy as you often do with depression and you just can't do it

[00:30:21] anymore.

[00:30:22] Right.

[00:30:22] And then people in their life will try.

[00:30:25] Does anything help you feel less shitty?

[00:30:27] Definitely exercise, which is a touchy subject between me and my treatment providers because

[00:30:33] my trauma specialist is like, yeah, get out of the house, beat the depression, get the

[00:30:38] endorphins going.

[00:30:39] And then my dietician over here is like, you should not be running.

[00:30:42] Please don't do that anymore.

[00:30:44] Oh man, this is so too many.

[00:30:46] It's almost like harm reduction.

[00:30:48] It's like, yeah, maybe running is harmful still, but it's probably less harmful than me dying.

[00:30:55] I don't know.

[00:30:55] Last year, would you think that was the closest you came to dying?

[00:31:00] Probably.

[00:31:01] It wasn't the first time in the ICU, but this year, I can't explain away the laws of physics

[00:31:07] kind of part makes me feel like it was probably closest.

[00:31:12] Are you planning your suicide right now?

[00:31:14] Yeah.

[00:31:15] I've written this in my journal before and I think I've said it to my therapist, but

[00:31:19] I often feel like I never get to choose the day that I attempt.

[00:31:24] It always just kind of chooses me.

[00:31:26] You just kind of know something will happen.

[00:31:28] The moment will come and you're like, I'll have the plan ready.

[00:31:31] And I'll be like, yep, this is it.

[00:31:34] Then it catches me off guard sometimes.

[00:31:36] I don't know.

[00:31:37] I can't explain it.

[00:31:38] It's hard to explain.

[00:31:39] In the past, I have had situations where I've like, okay, this day, this time.

[00:31:44] And that was really hard.

[00:31:46] And it was often when I was in treatment and had limited options or I was living at home

[00:31:51] with my parents and was hoarding pills there.

[00:31:53] And it just didn't always feel right.

[00:31:56] I don't know.

[00:31:57] Because you can't always know how you're going to feel when that time comes.

[00:32:01] I don't feel like you can put a schedule on it.

[00:32:04] So you're 24.

[00:32:05] When's your birthday?

[00:32:06] In March.

[00:32:07] And we're what?

[00:32:07] In July?

[00:32:08] Yeah.

[00:32:09] Do you think you'll make it?

[00:32:10] So 26.

[00:32:11] Yeah.

[00:32:12] 26.

[00:32:13] March of 2020 fucking five.

[00:32:15] Somehow this is.

[00:32:16] I know.

[00:32:17] Crazy.

[00:32:18] I feel like I can see it both ways a little bit.

[00:32:21] I feel like over the past several months of re-immersing myself in my life, I've had to

[00:32:28] kind of come up with some goals and rebuild some relationships along the way and stuff.

[00:32:33] And so as I've gotten deeper into my depression, some of that still stands.

[00:32:37] I mean, some of it still is like, oh yeah, I had this thought that I was going to do this

[00:32:41] in a few years, maybe go back to school, something like that.

[00:32:44] But then like the day to day, I get shrouded with depression.

[00:32:48] And often unless someone asks me about the long term, I'm not thinking about the long

[00:32:52] term.

[00:32:53] It would almost be more telling if like you would ask me like, do I think I'd make it

[00:32:57] to like the end of the year?

[00:32:59] Because I feel like that's harder for me to picture than like making it till my next birthday.

[00:33:04] I don't know why.

[00:33:05] I think subconsciously, I kind of have a deadline in October.

[00:33:09] If I were to attempt in October, it would be the third year in a row that I would have

[00:33:13] a very serious attempt in October.

[00:33:15] It's just a very hard month for me to get through.

[00:33:18] You walk outside and your body just knows it's October.

[00:33:21] I mean, you see the trees, you smell the air, your body just knows.

[00:33:25] And that was enough to send me into like a trauma response.

[00:33:28] Like it's really hard for me to get through that month.

[00:33:30] And so I feel like it's harder for me to think past October and like to the end of the year.

[00:33:35] And one of the reasons it's October is because you lost somebody to suicide?

[00:33:39] That's one of the reasons.

[00:33:40] Yeah.

[00:33:40] Do you have any idea or what are your thoughts on, you said that you have fistfights with God.

[00:33:46] You're a Christian.

[00:33:47] Do you know what?

[00:33:49] Let's just say your denomination.

[00:33:51] You can tell I don't know much about religion just by what I'm saying.

[00:33:56] Do you know their thoughts on suicide and their ideas around what might happen?

[00:34:01] Should you take that path?

[00:34:02] A lot of the hurt that I've gotten from responses from people has unfortunately been from my church.

[00:34:08] I think a lot of it just comes from a lot of misunderstanding about what depression actually

[00:34:12] is these responses come from people who have not dealt personally with depression.

[00:34:16] So I wouldn't say this is what all of Christianity thinks, but the small sect of people that I have confided in at church

[00:34:25] have often told me that like that would basically mean I'm a bad Christian.

[00:34:30] It would be putting my middle finger at God.

[00:34:33] Like I had someone tell me that like no pastor would ever do my funeral, like that sort of thing.

[00:34:38] How about eternal damnation?

[00:34:40] Throughout all of these years, the fear of that has been something that has kept me from attempting at times.

[00:34:48] It's that last push that pushes me over the edge is that taking away of like that fear being gone of like,

[00:34:55] you know what?

[00:34:56] I think God's going to be okay with this.

[00:34:57] Maybe he won't be okay with it, but I think I'm not going to be like damned to hell with that.

[00:35:02] Yeah.

[00:35:02] The idea that it's a possibility and that you still want to end your life is just telling of how much pain you're in.

[00:35:07] I am literally willing to risk being maybe in hell.

[00:35:11] Forever.

[00:35:12] Forever, which is an incomprehensible idea.

[00:35:15] That's how much fucking pain you're in.

[00:35:17] Like I want people to hear that.

[00:35:19] Yeah.

[00:35:20] I feel like, yeah, because people often think like, oh, people who have suicidal thoughts or commit suicide are wimps.

[00:35:25] Like, um, I don't think so.

[00:35:28] Especially if they're still here day after day after day, that must mean that they're doing a lot, you know?

[00:35:34] Let me ask you a question that's almost impossible to answer.

[00:35:37] Okay.

[00:35:38] Why do you want to die?

[00:35:39] I think it's just always been a feeling that I don't belong for so long.

[00:35:44] I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Inception.

[00:35:46] I have and I didn't love it, but most people do.

[00:35:49] Okay.

[00:35:50] Ever since I watched it for the first time, I've always been able to relate to that concept of planting that idea in his wife's brain that she wasn't meant to be here and that she had to kill herself.

[00:36:30] In retrospect, I feel like it just made me feel even more like God made a mistake or something.

[00:36:35] Like, and every single time I get so close and don't actually die, it just feels like, like I'm not supposed to be here.

[00:36:41] And it just doesn't make sense because people will tell me, well, if you've survived that many times, doesn't that mean that you should be here?

[00:36:49] But for some reason, it's the opposite.

[00:36:51] Okay.

[00:36:52] Yeah.

[00:36:53] In the times that you've been in the hospital or you've had therapists or perhaps even just thinking about your own brain and body, like in addition to anorexia, is there a diagnosis or diagnoses that you think is accurate for you?

[00:37:09] Yeah.

[00:37:10] I've been diagnosed with major depressive disorder, generalized anxiety.

[00:37:14] I also have obsessive compulsive disorder, PTSD.

[00:37:18] Do you take meds for that?

[00:37:19] They used to have me on a lot of meds.

[00:37:22] I have been, I've been through the ringer when it comes to treatments.

[00:37:27] I've done ECT, ketamine, I've done lithium.

[00:37:32] They were putting me on antipsychotics for a while.

[00:37:34] And nowadays, psychiatrists will be like, why would anyone put you on antipsychotics?

[00:37:38] I'm like, I don't know.

[00:37:39] I was held against my will in a hospital.

[00:37:41] So I don't know.

[00:37:43] So yeah, like now because of all the nasty side effects I've had, all the bad experiences I've had with psychiatrists, I really don't like taking meds.

[00:37:52] And I actively try not to be on them.

[00:37:56] After my last attempt, they did put me on an antidepressant and I compromised and I'm still taking it.

[00:38:02] But they wanted to add other meds and I haven't agreed.

[00:38:06] One of the things I think about when somebody is really thinking about it, planning.

[00:38:12] How do you get up?

[00:38:13] You get up in the morning, you got to go to work or maybe it's not a work day.

[00:38:17] What do you mean?

[00:38:18] More so like do the little stupid shit we have to do in life, right?

[00:38:21] Go grocery shopping or pick up dry cleaning or get your glasses fixed.

[00:38:26] Oh yeah.

[00:38:26] Does that become...

[00:38:27] Can I be honest?

[00:38:29] When it gets really bad, like one of the warning signs I know when it's getting bad, I'm very type A.

[00:38:35] I will put things off when I'm doing bad and I'll put things off and put things off until the very last minute.

[00:38:43] I will not keep my house in order.

[00:38:45] And then if someone's coming over, I will quickly put it together.

[00:38:49] Like I am avoiding responding to texts and phone calls and emails and everything.

[00:38:54] And it's just, it all kind of snowballs at this point.

[00:38:58] And it's just, it gets harder and harder.

[00:39:00] And I feel like one of my biggest fears is people finding out how not okay I am.

[00:39:04] I told my therapist this week, I'd rather people not know and me go before they find out.

[00:39:10] Because that would feel like the worst embarrassment ever for them to find out that I've relapsed again.

[00:39:15] In addition to the idea that people who would attempt are wimps, because I think that's the word you used.

[00:39:22] Yeah.

[00:39:23] Are there other sort of myths or misconceptions around any of this, whether it be suicide or ideating or even anorexia, depression, that you would like to dispel?

[00:39:33] Well, first and foremost, that just because someone comes to you and tells you that they're struggling and you sit with them, maybe talk with them, offer to let them stay the night, whatever.

[00:39:47] And then maybe they don't get better after that.

[00:39:50] It doesn't mean you did something wrong.

[00:39:52] It doesn't mean that you didn't help.

[00:39:56] It just means that the depression is strong.

[00:40:00] And also that it doesn't just go away, kind of hand in hand with that.

[00:40:06] It doesn't, the depression and suicidal thoughts don't just go away.

[00:40:09] I've struggled with nightmares as a result of my PTSD for probably four years straight at this point.

[00:40:15] And a question I will often get asked by people maybe that I haven't talked to for a while, they'll be like, oh, are you still struggling with nightmares?

[00:40:22] I'm like, yeah.

[00:40:23] I mean, like, I feel like it's just kind of this thing where like people get kind of surprised when they find out like, oh, she's still struggling with an eating.

[00:40:31] She's still struggling with suicidal thoughts.

[00:40:33] Like people get sick of you being sick.

[00:40:36] And I think a myth is just that it'll just go away or that you're a failure if it doesn't just go away after like two years or something.

[00:40:44] When you've listened to the podcast or perhaps even just in our conversation now, are there or is there a question that you would want me to ask or an idea you'd want me to bring up?

[00:40:55] I feel like you've probably asked this before, but kind of just like expanding a little more on like the mindset you have to be in to take your own life or try to take your own life.

[00:41:08] Because I feel like that's something people don't often understand who haven't been through it.

[00:41:13] And I probably didn't understand it prior to my first attempt, like, or my first big attempt, you know?

[00:41:20] Is that something you could find the words to describe?

[00:41:24] For me, the phrase that comes to mind is it's kind of like someone flips a switch.

[00:41:29] I kind of feel like my soul dies a little bit before my body does.

[00:41:33] And you just kind of feel yourself drifting away from the world and everything that you have in it.

[00:41:39] I feel like that's probably why people tend to like one of the classic horny sites, people giving away their stuff or whatever.

[00:41:45] It just doesn't feel like yours anymore.

[00:41:48] Yeah.

[00:41:48] So if you were feeling that way, and you may be, and you're in your home, and you got to work tomorrow.

[00:41:54] Are you in bed?

[00:41:55] Are you doing your stuff and being super type A, as you said?

[00:41:59] You know, like, what does it look like?

[00:42:01] The moment before?

[00:42:03] Or like...

[00:42:03] Not the moment before you might try.

[00:42:05] Just like for now, like right now, you're really struggling, right?

[00:42:08] Mm-hmm.

[00:42:09] And it's, what, I think it's about eight o'clock by you.

[00:42:13] Yep.

[00:42:14] You work tomorrow?

[00:42:15] I do.

[00:42:16] Yeah.

[00:42:16] So like, we get off.

[00:42:18] If I were flying the wall, would I be like, yeah, she's just a woman living her life.

[00:42:22] She's preparing for work tomorrow.

[00:42:24] She's brushing her teeth.

[00:42:26] Like, would it look...

[00:42:27] Or would you be in a corner curled up?

[00:42:30] Well, maybe sometimes that and sometimes not that.

[00:42:34] I would probably be just laying on the couch because I am exhausted.

[00:42:39] And that often keeps me from eating, cleaning the house, whatever.

[00:42:44] The morning, like the couple hours before work, that's when I try to get my life together.

[00:42:49] I respond to texts, there's on the emails.

[00:42:51] Okay.

[00:42:51] Some cleaning.

[00:42:52] And then I left the rest of the day just kind of be what it is.

[00:42:56] Like, when I get off work, it's just like, that's the way it has to be in order for me to survive.

[00:43:01] Do you think there's anything that somebody could say or do, or perhaps divine intervention,

[00:43:08] or whatever else that would likely, for lack of a better word, prevent you from trying again?

[00:43:17] I don't know if this is the one thing, but something that would definitely help would be

[00:43:21] feeling like I can enjoy things again.

[00:43:25] If I could feel positive emotions and genuinely feel like I'm not faking it and genuinely know

[00:43:31] what I'm here for and what difference I make to people, then maybe.

[00:43:36] Hmm.

[00:43:37] What else would you like to share?

[00:43:38] What else would you like to talk about or tell people or...

[00:43:42] Yeah.

[00:43:43] I'm just appreciative of having this space.

[00:43:45] And I hope that what I say can help someone.

[00:43:49] Me too.

[00:43:50] I'm sure it will.

[00:43:51] I've gotten better at this, but it still crops up for me.

[00:43:54] You may have heard this, depending on which podcast particular episode you heard.

[00:43:59] So weirded out by ending these conversations.

[00:44:02] I don't really know what to say.

[00:44:03] I'm like, all right, well, thanks for talking.

[00:44:05] I'm like, bye, I guess.

[00:44:06] You know, it's like, it's an awkward thing.

[00:44:09] Stranger just anonymously told my secrets too.

[00:44:11] Yeah, right, right, right, right.

[00:44:13] Like I heard it.

[00:44:14] I asked some questions.

[00:44:15] You talked about some things, like real things.

[00:44:17] And then, you know, despite any nerves or whatever else was coming up and all the fist fights

[00:44:21] with God, you were able to do it.

[00:44:24] So thank you very much.

[00:44:25] This might feel weird, but you listen to the podcast, you know, you sometimes at work and

[00:44:30] it's like, you get your earbud in.

[00:44:32] It's like, well, somebody's going to hear you.

[00:44:34] I know.

[00:44:35] It's kind of cool.

[00:44:36] I think.

[00:44:37] Yeah.

[00:44:37] I think it's cool that we don't have to necessarily know these people to know that

[00:44:42] they're doing good things and admire their strength and courage.

[00:44:46] Hail Mary.

[00:44:48] Before Em and I say goodbye, I actually made a mistake.

[00:44:52] This episode is now out a couple months after I had originally planned.

[00:44:56] In that time, Em shared with me that she wanted to give an update.

[00:45:00] So what you will hear next is her update and then our parting words.

[00:45:04] So at this point, you're probably wondering if I made it through October.

[00:45:09] And for good reason.

[00:45:10] In a bizarre turn of events, I have the opportunity to follow up with you guys and tell you that

[00:45:16] I did make it through October.

[00:45:18] Today is Sunday, November 24th, 2024.

[00:45:22] Still here.

[00:45:23] I don't know how.

[00:45:24] I certainly did not think I would be here when I first recorded the podcast with Sean in

[00:45:30] July and I didn't think I would be here a few weeks ago or even a few days ago.

[00:45:37] I'm truly living every day with the future in a very unknown space.

[00:45:42] In the beginning of October, I made a decision that I would end my life.

[00:45:49] I made a decision to drive out to the woods on a Wednesday night in the pitch darkness at

[00:45:58] like nine o'clock at night.

[00:45:59] I don't really remember making the decision, but I do remember making the decision to leave

[00:46:04] the woods and not end my life.

[00:46:07] I thought that because I had chosen to not end my life that it wasn't a big deal.

[00:46:14] And I did tell my therapist about what had happened.

[00:46:17] She, however, did not think it was not a big deal.

[00:46:20] She did not betray these emotions.

[00:46:22] However, a few days later at four in the morning, the police came banging on my door.

[00:46:27] This is one of the biggest reasons why I think the Suicide Noted podcast is so valuable because

[00:46:33] there has to be a better way to help suicidal individuals than treating them like criminals

[00:46:39] and having police come banging on their door at four in the morning and demanding they come

[00:46:44] with them and that there is no other option.

[00:46:47] My treatment providers put in two consecutive court orders, the second being after the first

[00:46:53] one was overturned after I was evaluated at the county hospital and released.

[00:46:57] I have no lasting judgment or negative feelings towards my providers.

[00:47:02] I know that I probably would have done the same if I thought I was being helpful or if I thought

[00:47:07] I was going to save someone's life.

[00:47:09] But the truth is, is that that was their only option in today's treatment system.

[00:47:14] And unfortunately, it was not a productive option.

[00:47:19] Instead, I ended up being sent against my will to a psychiatric hospital where I witnessed

[00:47:26] fights breaking out, someone trying to stab another patient and hurt a staff provider,

[00:47:32] and just lots and lots of hurt and pain that did not need to happen.

[00:47:37] I missed out on work and my life and had to get a lawyer to stand in my defense so that I could

[00:47:46] get out of the hospital.

[00:47:48] And I just really think that this whole experience was a true testament to how much our system

[00:47:55] needs to reform.

[00:47:57] And I hope that Sean will continue to record this podcast and hopefully help others and help

[00:48:04] reform this system in the future.

[00:48:06] So what has kept me alive in the weeks and months that have passed since initially recording

[00:48:11] the podcast, I would say, has been my faith.

[00:48:14] I think it's safe to say that I'm still getting in fistfights with God on a regular basis.

[00:48:20] I've been doing a lot of wrestling with the concept of whether or not a believer can truly

[00:48:26] overpower the survival instinct that I believe is probably the conviction of the Holy Spirit

[00:48:32] in some regard.

[00:48:34] And I think that's a lot of what saved my life last month and kept me from making the

[00:48:39] decision to end my life.

[00:48:41] I don't know what the future will hold.

[00:48:44] I feel like I'm in the same space I was in July mentally, where I really don't know what

[00:48:49] the next days and weeks will bring.

[00:48:51] But since I have made it this far since July, I'd say there might be a good chance that I'll

[00:48:56] still be here when I turn 26 in a few months.

[00:48:58] But like I said, I really don't know.

[00:49:00] I have relapsed in my eating disorder since July pretty heavily.

[00:49:05] And as often happens, this has served as kind of a counterweight for my suicidal thoughts,

[00:49:10] but is also a form of slow suicide in itself.

[00:49:13] So I really don't know where the future's headed.

[00:49:16] I'm grateful for Sean and this opportunity to share my story.

[00:49:19] And my hope and prayer is that it helps others and helps impact a lasting change in some way.

[00:49:26] Thanks, guys.

[00:49:27] Well, whatever your night looks like, I hope it doesn't suck.

[00:49:29] Thank you.

[00:49:30] You too.

[00:49:30] Thank you very much.

[00:49:32] Have a good night, Em.

[00:49:33] Appreciate it.

[00:49:34] You too.

[00:49:35] Bye.

[00:49:38] As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support.

[00:49:41] Special thanks to Em in Iowa.

[00:49:43] Thanks, Em.

[00:49:44] If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:49:47] Hello at suicidenoted.com.

[00:49:49] On Facebook or X at Suicide Noted.

[00:49:53] Help us out by leaving a rating or review.

[00:49:56] Only if it's good, of course.

[00:49:57] And you can check the show notes to learn all kinds of things about this podcast,

[00:50:01] including our membership and our new training.

[00:50:04] And that is all for episode number 241.

[00:50:07] Stay strong.

[00:50:08] Do the best you can.

[00:50:10] I'll talk to you soon.