Lucy in the Sky 🌙

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not a scientist, but I think scientifically.

[00:00:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm actually trying to devise the perfect suicide letter to make sure that

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_03]: my family doesn't blame themselves.

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm trying to write it in the right way.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted.

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_02]: On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_02]: that we can hear their stories.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and we almost never talk about it.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: We certainly don't talk about it enough.

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And when we do talk about it, many of us, including me,

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_02]: we are not very good at it.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_02]: better conversations with attempt survivors in large part to help more people in more

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_02]: places, hopefully, hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone.

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello at suicidenoted.com.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You can also reach us on Facebook or X at Suicide Noted.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you'd like to learn more about this podcast, including our membership,

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_02]: you can check the show notes.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_02]: There's all kinds of cool stuff in there.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_02]: So check that out.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to share with you something that happened last week.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I have been for some time now playing with the idea of changing the logo.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So what I did was went on chat GBT just for shits and giggles.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_02]: They have this photo generator or logo generator.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I put some prompts in colors and fonts and then in quotes, suicide noted,

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and then a tagline.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And what I got back was not an image or a photo or a logo.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And what chat GPT returned was something like we can't do that.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: We don't support that idea or that word or something like that.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not looking at chat GPT right now.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But nonetheless, it just reminds me one more space in which you can't even say

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_02]: the damn word.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, on this podcast, as the title suggests, as the conversations due to we

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_02]: say the word and we say it fairly often and I don't hold back.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So please take that into account before you listen or as you listen.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_02]: But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn today.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I am talking with Lucy.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Lucy lives in the sky and she is a suicide attempt survivor.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, Lucy.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Can't hear you.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It's twenty twenty four.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Get your shit together.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_03]: This is the podcast for people who don't have their shit together.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Come on.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Holy shit.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I am going to change the tagline of this podcast or at least add to it the podcast

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: for people who don't have their shit together.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Can't you can't you like trademark those?

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_03]: You can trademark those, right?

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Remember in a podcast you mentioned that in one of the podcasts that he wanted to

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_03]: trademark something.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I like to believe I'm pretty damn good at having conversations with people about

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_02]: suicide. I don't do much else very well.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So when you ask me about business shit or trademarks and copyrights, I don't know

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_02]: what the fuck you're talking.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I am just a simple bald man at a kitchen table, displaced New Yorker in Chapel

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Hill, North Carolina, who refused to wear sleeves.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you on the same page with me in the next?

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Even though I'm a woman, I'm having trouble with the bald shit also, though.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_03]: The women in my family have had some problems with that also.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So and I'm not wearing sleeves also.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like that might be part of our conversation.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Hair issues, sleeve issues.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Learning all of this now that was not in your email when you reached out.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a very simple email.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It was not that long ago.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I am I'm paraphrasing, but it was essentially I'm not a suicide attempt

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_02]: survivor. However, I am planning dot dot dot.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And just so we're clear, you mean planning to end your life?

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So when this comes out in ballpark 10 weeks, will you be alive?

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I am planning by the end of the year.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I do not want to be alive by the I do not want to be alive by January 1st.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm planning by the end of the year.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Why?

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Why the end of the year?

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Why January 1st is that cut off date?

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I do not want to go through another New Year.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I have a lot of autoimmune diseases and it's really painful in the cold weather.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_03]: The type of autoimmune diseases I have, I get frostbite no matter what I do, no

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_03]: matter how warmly I dress this the minute.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's kind of hard.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to go into the gory details, but it affects me really bad.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And the minute I go outside, it's really painful.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And I just don't want to deal with it anymore.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I just know that as soon as the cold weather hits, I'm just going to

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_03]: want to stay in bed all winter long.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I just don't want to deal with it anymore.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: How old are you?

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm 54.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And Lucy, you live in the sky.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_02]: No diamonds, not here, not today.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe not even until midnight, December 31st.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think Lucy that there is a risk in me talking with you?

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, we are going to talk and you specifically definitively having a

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: plan and me just having this conversation with you when it going out to the world.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And I leave it at that.

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Does this conversation make it more likely you're going to end your life?

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_02]: No, not at all.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_03]: First of all, you're one of the first conversation.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I really was amazed when I remember I heard, I think it was Ryan, Ohio.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's early, really early.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I was so amazed when I heard him, he had the same idea as I do.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I did.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_03]: That sounds like a bad phrasing of how I'm saying it, but he

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_03]: planned to take his life also.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Unlike me, he had attempted before.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_03]: He very calmly discussed.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_03]: He said, I don't know when I thought it was the only one who I mean, obviously

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_03]: there are a lot of people, but approaching it is calmly.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'm sure there are a lot of people just not talking about it.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's where there are.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there's there's the man who wrote the wasn't the one thousand nine hundred

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_03]: and five page suicide letter.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I just read a book of suicide last suicide notes.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I was getting ideas from it because I'm planning my suicide note already.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_03]: My mind is I have the mind of a scientist.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not a scientist, but I think scientifically.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm actually trying to devise the perfect suicide letter.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_03]: That's not to make sure that my family doesn't blame themselves.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm trying to write it in the right way.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm looking at other suicide notes to see how they wrote it.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I was looking at Virginia Woolf's Sailor Day and I'm going to look at the

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_03]: one that the man who wrote the one thousand nine hundred.

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, his was philosophical.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to read the whole thing.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But does anybody know that you will not be alive then?

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_02]: No, no.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I might tell I'm probably going to tell one person, you know, that it's

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_02]: possible people will hear that.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but no one no one's going to.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_03]: No one is going to.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think anybody except the one person that I'm going to tell will hear this

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_02]: podcast. When those people in your life, like your family that you mentioned, yeah,

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: of your death.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm asking you to speculate, given what you've gone through, given what you

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_02]: share with them, all they know about you.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think they though?

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I realize there's more than one person, I think.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Will they be surprised?

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Mm. At first, but eventually I'm trying to prepare them.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm very slowly trying to prepare them.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think I've been preparing them my whole life.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_03]: What do you mean? I've had depression my whole life.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It's actually amazing.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I haven't tried before.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I've gone through spells like I think they'll be surprised.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_03]: But after a while, I think it will just be a logical conclusion.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of like having cancer your whole life, kind of brief moments of remission.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And then you just eventually die of it.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I think it's just kind of like I'm in stage four cancer.

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I've tried all the treatments and there's just really no cure.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Some people have cancer and they're able to have a full cure of the cancer.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Some people have cancer and then they struggle with it throughout their life and

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_03]: then they go through it and they have remission and they have recurrence.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And but they more or less lead a long, healthy life.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And then there's other people who have

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_03]: pancreatic cancer and bad pyeloneosis stage four cancer.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And they eventually die of it.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's that's me.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's really nothing you can do when you say all that.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you saying like, that's Lucy, that's the depression,

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_02]: that's the autoimmune, all of the above?

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just I've had a depression and then

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I just keep getting more and more autoimmune diseases.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And that just adds to it.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Do they have names?

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I just have lupus and Renan's disease.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I get Sjogren's syndrome and I'm sure I'll get rheumatoid arthritis soon.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, once you get one, they just kind of add on.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_03]: They get the others.

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And because of them, I'm not able to work enough to support myself.

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And I just I'm going to use the cliche.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a burden on my family.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Cliche for a reason, I suppose.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like, you know, they're careful not to not to say I'm a burden,

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_03]: but I know deep down I am and I feel like after they get over the initial shock,

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I think overall they'll be better off.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_03]: They would never say it.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But deep down, you know,

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I think they would never let themselves feel it.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_03]: But I think I'd be a release for them.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes when I hear that about people

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_02]: like their auto responses, like you're not a burden.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, is that really true?

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_02]: You're probably right.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Deep down, I might not be right, of course.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But deep down, there's probably something

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_02]: that is burdensome when you're dealing with a relative who has these problems.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I am feeling I feel the same way about me with parts of my family.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. Yeah.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_02]: They've ever used that word with me if I could read their minds.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't see what joy I give to them.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Who wants someone who's depressed all the time?

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'd rather the money that they have to use to help me support myself.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I'd rather that money go to their grandkids.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_02]: When and why did you find this podcast?

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I just just like most people did.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I just searched for suicide on Spotify.

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Easy. You know, just like most of your I think most of your listeners.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, something like that. Right.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_02]: But was it because you were looking for ways, looking for solace,

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_03]: looking for something to sell us? You know, I wasn't looking for ways.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I have pretty much researched ways.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm just scared.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want my mother to blame herself.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_03]: But there's really no way to accidentally make it look like an accident.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_03]: They can from what I've researched, they can find out, you know,

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_03]: even if you try to make it look like a car accident,

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_03]: they're so sophisticated with the accident reconstruction.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_03]: My the worst thing would be if you make it look like an accident and you don't

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_03]: succeed and you're paralyzed and then you're even more of a burden.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_03]: That would be my worst fear.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that idea was one of the reasons that I don't know how many episodes you've

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_02]: listened to. One of the reasons why I started asking the pink and purple pill

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_02]: question because it takes out, you know, the pink and purple question.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I haven't listened to every episode.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, no. It's totally fine. And it's more recent.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to ask that question right now,

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_02]: even though I usually towards the end, I give you a pill.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I for some reason just decided to make it pink and purple.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_02]: When you take this pill, you go to bed,

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_02]: you die peacefully in your sleep and nobody knows it's a suicide.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And the reason I ask that question is so I'm taking out any risk that it won't work.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Any problems you might have associated, like you mentioned,

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, being in a wheelchair forever, something getting paralyzed.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's no pain. So all that's taken out.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to really hone in on do you want to die?

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And would you take that pill now?

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Would you magically give it to you over Zoom?

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Would you take it right now?

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Would you save it or would you just discard it?

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I would save it and wait until I'm ready.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_03]: What would that day be like? The day of?

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Geez, it would be the day that I could get my note together.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I would just have everything ready.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I would I just wouldn't want to leave everything to them.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I would try to get the house sold,

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_03]: the selling of the house underway somewhat and get my affairs in order.

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So I wouldn't, you know, leave everything for them to do.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't want to do it right away with everything in disarray.

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's a purple pill.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's the pink pill, right?

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_02]: It's one pill.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And in my mind, half of it's pink and half of it's purple.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, OK. So it's not like the red and the blue.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not a choice of something.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the matrix.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, right.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm just saying it's not a choice.

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just one pill.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to make sure, you know,

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_02]: you're on the Suicide Noted podcast, not in the Matrix movie.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_03]: What I'm looking for is exactly the pig pill.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_03]: That's exactly what I'm looking for.

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Something like that.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Did you find anything?

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_03]: That's pretty much my plan because I have enough pills to do it.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm just scared it's not going to work.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_03]: But I pretty much have enough to do it.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So the other question, and then I want to hear more about your life as much as you'd

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_02]: like to share, I want to know why you wanted to talk with me and by and thereby

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_02]: whoever listens to this will also hear this conversation.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel kind of guilty.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess I should clarify something.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I come from a Jewish family, so I feel guilty about everything.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I think anybody who's Jewish is probably laughing right now because I'll understand.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not. I'm not really just at all.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't believe in anything.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm an atheist.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_03]: So Jewish culturally, I hear family of suicide victims saying,

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_03]: oh, she or he had just talked to us.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_03]: We would have understood.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm just thinking if I go right now

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_03]: to my family and I say I'm feeling suicidal, the first thing my mother would say.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And I love my mother to death.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And she loves me.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_03]: But she would say, do you know how this makes me feel?

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And it would make me feel ten times worse.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_03]: It would make me want to just take the pink pill right now.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_03]: So there's no way for me to talk to anybody about it.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I can't go to my family about it.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't really see a way out.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't see in my psychiatrist again.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't like to use cliches, but the definition of insanity is

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_03]: to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I just she just keeps throwing pills at me and they seem I don't know.

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe your listeners will understand,

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_03]: but I've had some success with some medications, but they all stop working

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_03]: after a while and the last medication and I told her, I said,

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_03]: you can start me on this new medication, I said, but I guarantee you my work for a

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_03]: year, it might work for six months, but it's going to stop working for no reason

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_03]: at all. Sure enough, after six months, I just just fell off a cliff.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_03]: There's just nothing that works.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't see the point and just keep to keep doing the same thing.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't see what else I can do.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how to ask this question, not that I'm hesitant to.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I have to try to find the right words.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: How does it feel for you, obviously,

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_02]: to know that at some point relatively soon you will not be alive?

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Relief.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_03]: The only thing that really gives me relief is sleeping.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I try to do as much work as I can, but I just hate waking up every day.

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I always think every day, wouldn't it be great to just take the pills now and just

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_03]: end it right now, just to sleep and never have to wake up,

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_03]: never have to deal with this anymore?

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_03]: It would just be so amazing.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I just know that I can't do it until I get my affairs in order.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Then it's just kind of strange how it seems it's such an irrational act.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm applying such I'm applying rationality to it.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I'm researching the best way to write

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_03]: a suicide note, I'm trying to phrase it as I told you before.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to phrase it in a way where I don't make anybody feel bad.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm kind of obsessing about how to phrase it,

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_03]: where I try to explain as best I can why I'm doing it.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to leave everything in the best

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_03]: way so that it's the less burdensome for everybody.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm trying to apply kind of a veneer

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_03]: of rationality to this very irrational act.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it an irrational act?

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I guess it isn't.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Have you ever heard how let me give you an analogy.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's talk about entrepreneurs.

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm making an analogy here.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Entrepreneurs are irrational because ninety nine percent of businesses fail.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And if they were rational, they would never try to start a business

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_03]: because they would look at the statistics and say this is never going to succeed.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_03]: So most people have to be a little irrational in life because if you look

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_03]: at life, you're like, oh, we're all going to die.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_03]: So why should we even bother?

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So they say that people who are depressed,

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_03]: it's because they see life more rationally than normal people.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_03]: People who are depressed, they say, are the ones who see things more clearly.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's right.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I'm seeing things perhaps a little more clearly.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, what's the point?

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So I feel, OK, I really am a burden.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to lift this burden.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't believe in an afterlife.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm suffering.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I just want to be nothing.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, if I end everything, then I won't feel anything and I won't be

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_03]: a burden and that would be better than basically zero is better than negative.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_03]: You want to use a mathematical term.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So for the math people out there.

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So is this conversation we're having,

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I imagine, kind of a secret or like just nobody knows?

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm going to tell my friend.

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to tell one friend about it.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I will be alive until at least November.

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_02]: You just bumped up your suicide plans within this conversation.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: We've only been I know it's correlation and causation.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll tell you something.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I plan to end it last November 1st.

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_03]: There was a reason because I told you I had never attempted before,

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_03]: but I had planned last November 1st.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't go through with it.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I wish I had.

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_02]: What was the reason?

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_03]: There was some surgery I needed.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_03]: It was very expensive and it wasn't covered by insurance.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't want my parents to pay for it.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And they insisted on it.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I just didn't want to spend the money on me.

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I thought this was a good time to end it.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just mad at myself for not going through with it.

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Was that pills?

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I always have a stash of pills I could take any time.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_02]: But was that your method then? Yes.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. Okay.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I have pills for anxiety.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I've got like a month's supply.

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure that would do it.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I just have to make sure that they stay down.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And I pretty much have an iron stomach.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm sure they would.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I just don't know how painful it is.

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_03]: The ones I have, I think I would just stop breathing.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's it.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm pretty sure I've done the research and I think I would just take them.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And I just stop breathing.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I just go to sleep and that would be it.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember the first time you thought about ending your life?

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think it was when I was about 19.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't like this.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think about it every minute of every day now.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it just started creeping in constantly for the past.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, two years.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's just as I get diagnosed

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_03]: with more and more autoimmune diseases and these are things that just it's not

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_03]: like having cancer where you can point to a tumor and just say, these are just things

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_03]: where you're just tired all the time, where inflammation, where they just say,

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_03]: oh, you just got to live with it and you just feel miserable.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And why deal with it?

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Just if you don't want to deal with it, just end it.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I mean, I honestly I really wish I lived in the Netherlands or Belgium.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_03]: They have very expansive euthanasia laws.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that with my long term major

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_03]: depression, I think that I would I would be granted dispensation for euthanasia.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I could go there as an American citizen.

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_03]: They wouldn't allow me, you know, but as a Dutch citizen, I would.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Not sure how that works.

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Lucy, do you know I said earlier that I'm not good at many things, right?

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I said with pride that I do think I'm pretty good at this.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_02]: There will be people that disagree.

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Fuck them. Also, I happen to be and you might

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_02]: know this from having listened to the podcast.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I happen to be a gifted memoir title creator for other people, not myself.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Probably top five in the world for other people.

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just saying I'm that good.

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_02]: You get the final say, of course.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, every minute of every day.

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I really want you to think about that as a possibility.

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, I can tell you don't love it.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Every minute of every day.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you said it.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I think about suicide or ending my life.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Did you not? Is it did you say every minute?

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it's time to look if you want to fire me.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_03]: That's fine. No, but you're right.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Because, I mean, this is sick.

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I was just cutting some vegetables

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_03]: thinking I should not be handling a knife.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But was this like an hour before we talked?

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_03]: This was early.

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, earlier in the day.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was thinking I was cutting the knife and I was looking at my wrists and I'm

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_03]: thinking I should not be handling a knife.

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I was saying to myself, why don't you just do it?

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And I said, no, I'm too much of a coward to do it.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_03]: It's at the point where, you know,

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_03]: people say you're a coward if you commit suicide.

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm thinking I'm a coward if I don't,

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_03]: because I'm a burden and I should get rid of myself.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel myself as cowardly not to commit suicide.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_02]: You're an atheist? Yes.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So Lucy in the sky won't be in the sky.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_03]: My atoms will.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I will be in the ether.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I might be in the diamonds.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Carbon.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_02]: This is turning into a different podcast and I don't know it.

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_02]: All right. I mean, I'm down for all those possibilities.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_02]: For sure.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I just hope wherever you are, you're not in pain anymore.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I'm hoping for.

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm hoping for nothingness.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Very Zen.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Very sad, I guess.

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you when's your birthday?

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_02]: May 18th. So you're not making it.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_03]: No. You know, this birthday, I just it was just the worst.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_03]: It just gets worse and worse each year.

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_02]: You ever get like an official diagnosis you agree with that?

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned depression and the various autoimmune disorders and diseases.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_03]: It's pretty much just been the same.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just, you know, it's kind of like I've just resigned myself.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I do agree with borderline personality disorder.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I think because of that, I avoid a lot of things.

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_03]: But I think it really is.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Depression is really what is the major driver of my decision.

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I just think that no matter what therapy or drugs or anything, I just think again,

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's just like having certain cancer.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_03]: You just can't recover.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think there's anything I can do to really recover from it.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of like, as I said before,

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_03]: it's like the difference between having stage one cancer and having stage four

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_03]: cancer, I have stage four cancer being within the realm of reality.

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Is there anything that can happen that would change your mind?

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm not asking you to say, yeah, well,

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_02]: if I grew a pair of wings and I could fly around the world, that's not going to happen.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. So real stuff.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Would anything change your mind?

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to try to change your mind.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_02]: That's not how I roll. But I'm just curious.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think so. It's so hard to just exist.

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not my surroundings.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_03]: My surroundings have nothing to do.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_03]: My external environment has nothing to do with how I feel.

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_03]: It's all inside me.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So it would have to be something inside me that changes.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And I can't think of anything that would do that.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_02]: If somehow tomorrow you woke up and all your autoimmune conditions were gone,

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_02]: would the depression also be potentially what led you to suicide in December?

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you can parse that out so neatly, but.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think so.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I think if I woke up and the

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_03]: depression was gone, then that would be it.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I could handle the autoimmune.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's the depression that's really the problem.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's I could handle everything else.

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_03]: The main thing is the feeling of worthlessness, you know, the burden.

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And you'd say when you first was it that you first were depressed or you first

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_02]: thought about suicide, it was 19.

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I remember being depressed when I was five years old.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I was born again.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I was born with depression.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_03]: So I've always been depressed.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I remember my first first thinking of suicide when I was 19, you know,

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_03]: not like having a plan or anything, but not really again thinking of it

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_03]: until really to starting again to two years ago.

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I've had brief moments of remission, but now it's just I feel like

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_03]: really at this point there's really nothing more to do.

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I think, again, you know how I told you again, people with depression looking

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_03]: clearly, I'm looking clearly I'm 54.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_03]: What else is going to happen with my life?

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have children.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_03]: It's OK. I never wanted them because I don't have regrets about that.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not married.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Not really regret about that.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_03]: What's going to happen when you get older and older?

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm just looking at that.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_03]: What kind of life is this?

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm unable to do a lot of things.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Why should I prolong it?

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_03]: What's the point, you know, of people don't think about this.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm depressed, so I'm thinking about it,

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, and I just look at older people, what's the point?

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not deriving any joy from this.

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So why should I do this?

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was reading the last suicide notes,

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, George Eastman, Kodak, his suicide note just said, works done.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, why linger on?

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I have nothing more to contribute.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I just for what it's worth,

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_02]: you're certainly contributing to this podcast.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I appreciate that.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I am curious how you might characterize and for some reason I'm dividing it

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_02]: into like up to 19 years old and then from like 19 to today.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Here's what I feel really again.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Guilt is a very big part of my life because of my upbringing.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_03]: One of the things that I feel bad about is that when I'm depressed,

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I try to shake myself out of it by looking at people who are less fortunate than me.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I say, oh, my gosh, I could be one of those real.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I could be one of those poor people in Gaza or refugee in Gaza.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I could be a person who's a victim of sex

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_03]: trafficking and then I feel guilty because I still feel depressed.

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that is an interesting exercise and I certainly tried it myself.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I actually don't think it's effective.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm wondering if there's research

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_02]: about it, because I mean, if it works for somebody, of course,

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_02]: do it to say I'm more fortunate than a small boy in sub-Saharan Africa.

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I just wonder, like I hear people talk about that and I'm like,

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I understand, but I don't know anyway.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_03]: The reason why is that I was and this is very good because this is very borderline

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_03]: personality disorder. I was very much to 19 year stereotypical,

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_03]: smart, geek, overprotected child.

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_03]: No one wanted to be my friend because I was a geek.

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I went to college and I went wild, overdid it, got depressed.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I just kind of like went from one extreme to the other.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_03]: As a lot of people with borderline personality disorder do,

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, instead of being studious, you know, I never really got into drugs

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_03]: and alcohol, you know, when I was got into partying and men and a little bit

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_03]: of craziness. So I went over the edge.

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's kind of like why I, you know, when 19, I got a little bit suicidal.

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And then when I was kind of that craziness persistent throughout my 20s,

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_03]: then I was OK, like a little bit of stability in my 30s.

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_03]: But I always had got hit by the depression.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_03]: It really hurt, you know, building a career or anything.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_03]: It's hard to point to anything.

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And again, one of the things that really

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_03]: makes me, again, feel guilty is that I've never really had any.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, a lot of your interviewees had,

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, suffer from abuse or had a traumatic event.

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And I never really had that.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't feel like I deserve any sympathy because I never really

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_03]: had anything traumatic happen to me.

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I just was born with this terrible depression.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if this is the kind of thing that fits into this podcast.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So I might nix it. I'm weird.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't actually try to make people feel good.

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I just want to hear what you have to say and try to facilitate.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Not make you feel bad, not gonna make you feel good.

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm not here to like be like, you're amazing.

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You're a provocateur.

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_02]: That's it. But fascinating to me that you said not so much.

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_02]: This person had this trauma and I didn't.

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So I feel this way about that, like fill in the blank guilty or whatever the word is.

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And you followed it up by saying, and I was born with depression.

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm thinking to myself, are you not seeing what I'm hearing?

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you not hear or see what I see? Trauma.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe a different flavor of trauma if we can use that sort of word.

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But like, whoa.

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's the fascinating thing.

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm going to start to sound like a psycho babbler.

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I do the same fucking thing.

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like I can see stuff that you say.

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, whoa, but you don't see it and vice versa.

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. As like humans. This is part of the struggle.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_02]: This is part of being human or depressed or anyway.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_02]: You may totally disagree with me, but I'm like, oh, no, I do.

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_02]: In being born with depression and then you

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_02]: dealing with depression for five plus decades.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_02]: If the audience can see me right now, I'm making weird, funny, confusing faces.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, you're right, because my parents, I always say, look, you know, you're not

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_03]: to blame. I go, you are to blame for the terrible genes you gave.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_02]: No genetics matter.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_03]: You're right. I actually work for a company

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I work for a company that does personalized genomics research.

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_03]: So I should know that

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_02]: you work for 23 and me.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_03]: No, no. It's another it's just another small company.

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So did you start writing that suicide note?

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_03]: You want to hear something sick?

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't probably won't think it's sick, but sure.

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I actually was reading other suicide

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_03]: notes and I highlighted parts of them that I wasn't.

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm going to ask you a question

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_02]: here about the note, even though you haven't started it.

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But you've done the prepping or the research.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Right. Right.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think the first and or last line will be?

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_03]: First line is it's not your fault.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Done. Got it.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, the first line is please forgive me.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Definitely.

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is like one note for everyone or like individual notes?

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_03]: No, one night for everyone.

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_02]: All right. I'm going to get weird here and you're going to think I'm sick.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_03]: You've been weird the whole time.

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So please,

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_02]: are you going to write it out, type it out?

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Type like a typewriter or a computer computer?

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_02]: How many pages do you think it'll be?

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not going to be that long.

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I was not like that.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Nineteen hundred page.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm going to take a look at that tonight.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You know the whole thing.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_02]: If like I had more time, I'd write you a shorter letter.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Two pages is short.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_02]: That's hard.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to say maybe three.

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_03]: The first line is please forgive me.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_03]: The last line is going to be I love you.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_03]: That's easy.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And somewhere in there, it's not your fault.

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_03]: The first line is please forgive me.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not your fault.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to talk about just that it's the pain is intense.

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I know that you don't think I'm a burden,

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_03]: but after a few weeks or months, you will realize this is the best for everyone.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And please know that I'm not suffering now.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Definitely have to put a note about Bluebell in there.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Bluebell has to be taken care of.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Bluebell has to be taken care of by my sister.

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_03]: My cat.

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Who is Bluebell?

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_03]: My cat.

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody knows that until you tell us.

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I know that my sister will take care of her.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Where is Bluebell right now?

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_03]: She is on her throne in my attic.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_03]: My attic is like a spa for cats.

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I want her life.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So you want Bluebell if you could, if you called right now, would she come?

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_02]: That's more of a dog thing, right?

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_03]: She comes.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_03]: She comes.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But I want to see Bluebell before we leave.

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, she's very shy.

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Tell you're talking to a famous man.

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_02]: See if she.

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you know something?

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I think she's outside.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_02]: No worries, Bluebell.

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_02]: You have to make your choices.

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And so do I.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_02]: What are your days like?

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I think part of it, too, is I spend too much time alone because I work from home.

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I try to get out and do a little bit.

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Unfortunately, just so tired because of all my I sound like an old woman

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_03]: complaining, I hate it, I don't really get out a lot and I rest.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, that's pretty much it.

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't get out.

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, can I ask you a question?

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_03]: How did you end up in North Carolina?

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I murdered somebody up in New York.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I was running from the law and they still haven't caught me.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_03]: What part of New York are you from?

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm from Long Island.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I just said I murdered someone and I'm

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_02]: on the run and you're asking me which part of New York.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I know you're full of shit.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_03]: How did you end up in North Carolina?

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I was ready to leave New York because I had my own health problems and, you know,

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_02]: just it was just too much and too expensive and whatever else.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And I had some family down here.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I asked the damn questions here, Lucy.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Now you can ask me anything you want.

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_02]: What else you got?

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_03]: How did you end up making this podcast about us suicidal folks here?

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you adjacent to us?

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I joke like I don't need to be one of you to run.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to try to end my life to make me qualified to do this.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, not that anyone suggested I should.

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm definitely adjacent.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_02]: My best friend killed himself and then years went by and I dealt with all my stuff.

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I cannot tell you exactly.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I just kept hearing a lot of bullshit.

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if I'm really being frank, because it's going to sound perhaps what's

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_02]: the word hubris, is that the right word?

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Like nobody was having good conversations about this stuff.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_02]: They weren't honest or they weren't good.

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was just like, I can just I want to do this.

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_02]: It's important. The stakes are high.

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody's doing it.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I had this sort of vision of how I wanted it done, which seems to have been working.

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You know?

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I took a while to figure out all the tech shit.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I just did it.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Just did it. Sat my ass down.

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Just felt like an important group of humans

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_02]: to be talking to, because when you're talking about suicide, you're talking

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_02]: about everything, everything, everything in someone's life can come up.

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_02]: If I had a pod, you know, so it's fascinating.

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Other than your cat and your plants and you do have a lovely garden.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_02]: What helps you get through the day?

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm making the assumption those two things help you.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I try to lose myself in intellectual stuff.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a scientist.

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_03]: My mind is.

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_03]: So I try to find something in what I'm editing and I try to lose myself in that.

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, for example, if I'm editing about a particular condition,

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I try to lose myself in that intellectual theory or strain or medical condition.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_03]: That's the kind of thing that drives me.

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I like stimulating conversations.

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I do have a few friends, the friend that I'm going to tell about this.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And she's into that and she's into stimulating conversation.

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, the type of stuff like I'm

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_03]: talking to you about, you know, I can talk to her about and that's

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_03]: when I can lose myself in that I don't really have that many people

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_03]: that I can talk about that with, you know, I can't talk really deep stuff with my family.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_03]: My sister, I'm kind of estranged from not formally estranged from.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_03]: She really just doesn't have time for me.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, she makes that clear.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_02]: You said you can't talk to certain people about deep stuff.

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, this isn't just deep stuff.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_02]: This is like life and death stuff.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't I'm not even close to this.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I just mean, you know, my family, they don't they pretty much don't

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_03]: want to hear anything unless it's good.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_02]: God, that pisses me off.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Unless you have good news.

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't bother. Right.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like my mother just texted me.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_03]: How are you doing?

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just going to write great if I wrote not so good.

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't I don't want to bother, you know.

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_02]: That's why when people ask me that question, I try to respond with colors

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and flavors and textures instead of words.

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Those are words that I'll be like, you know, beige rhombus.

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's partially to annoy them.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_02]: But more often I'm like, yeah, I just I don't know the words.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'll just do other things.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, by the way, this is a great time to remind any of our listeners.

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Donate to the fucking cause.

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_02]: We need your

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_02]: instance. It's like pulling teeth.

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_02]: If you're not clear what the cause is,

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_02]: it's the podcast and I run it and it's a lot of work.

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Help me. I can do more of it.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the same thing with your memoir.

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_02]: You didn't necessarily love it, but it's, you know, I read it every day.

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Ideas beget ideas here.

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Am I right? So we got your memoir title.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_02]: We got your note before you die.

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_02]: We've got this merch stuff.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_02]: We're creative wizards here.

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm guessing if you are planning your

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_02]: death by no later than January one, you're not in therapy.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I hate therapy. I hate it.

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I go there. I have nothing to talk about.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I have no trauma to talk about.

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_03]: What do I say? I'm depressed and I have no reason why.

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I just feel miserable.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel worthless.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I sit there. It's like pulling teeth.

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_03]: What am I going to say?

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_02]: It's my impression and I've been in therapy that it's a conversation.

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not like you have to go there and monologue for 45 minutes.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I hate therapy.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't feel like I'm worth therapy.

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I think therapies for people who have trauma.

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know. My my psychiatrist wants me to go.

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_03]: You don't know what to talk about.

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_02]: My brain was going to people that are

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_02]: planning and are so intent on doing it and are very serious about it.

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_02]: There's no reason to go to therapy.

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Like why? That's my thought.

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And you hate it. So like, well, you'll never go.

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I make total sense.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So another guess I'm often wrong.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm guessing you take meds just to feel a little less shitty.

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I have to take meds because I have OCD, terrible OCD.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_03]: If I didn't take the meds, my OCD would be terrible.

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_02]: What would that be like when it's bad?

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I would be reading and rereading and rereading and rereading.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't be able to get any work done.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And other weird things would emerge with my OCD.

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I've had that since childhood, too.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I remember being born with that also.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I would do weird things again and again and again and again.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_02]: In dealing with your depression in the various ways one tries to deal with it,

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_02]: whether it's formally or informally, did you ever by choice or perhaps not spend

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_02]: any time in a psych unit of any kind?

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I did some intensive outpatient therapy.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Basically, you sit in a room with a bunch

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_03]: of people for half the day and they talk.

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Right. I don't even remember any of it

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_03]: because I was falling asleep half the time.

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_03]: It was complete bullshit.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_03]: People with every kind of disorder had nothing to do with me.

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_02]: You have the same experience.

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's not uncommon.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_02]: where they sort of clump everyone together and they're like, yeah, talk about it.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember any of it.

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_03]: It was just so unremarkable.

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to ask you a question I don't think I've ever asked anybody.

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_02]: No idea why I'm asking.

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead. What's the happiest memory of your life?

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my gosh. You're going to laugh.

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I remember winning a dance contest.

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I remember winning a dance contest and I was so happy.

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_03]: How old were you? Oh, gosh.

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like in my early 30s.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_02]: What kind of dance?

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not into Jewish stuff, but it would happen to be a Jewish dance contest.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_02]: That's like you're kind of into it.

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Where was this? Was this in New York?

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I was in South Florida.

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_03]: This is Jewish.

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, South.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_02]: That would have been about 20 plus years ago.

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_02]: You were. Do you think you deserve to win?

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I was a damn good dancer.

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I sure as hell did.

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_03]: You had to shake your ass.

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of ass shaking.

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I did a lot of Latin dancing, so I knew how to dance.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't really have that much competition.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_02]: How many people in this competition?

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_03]: There was like 20 people.

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And when your name was announced, it felt good.

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I did say the happiest moment of your life.

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, it was really great.

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_02]: The idea that your favorite or happiest

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_02]: memory, I should say, is winning a dance competition.

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_03]: That's cool. I don't know why.

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know why I thought of it.

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it was just because I looked good then.

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And I miss dancing and being able to, you know, when I was in good health and being

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_03]: able to do those kind of things and it was just fun.

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_03]: You never asked anybody that.

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_02]: How many episodes more or less have you heard?

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, God, I've listened to maybe about 20.

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Have you ever heard me ask the question, what's your happiest memories?

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_02]: No, not saying I'm averse to those kinds of questions.

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I just don't recall it ever coming up.

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I do recall you doing you do like to do the memoir thing, though.

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember that.

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not even that I like it, Lucy.

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a calling.

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I have no choice when you have been bestowed with a gift

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_02]: at such a high level.

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_02]: It would be such a gross and frankly,

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't even have the words to the kind of disservice I would be offering people or

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_02]: not offering them if I didn't do you would be a disservice to the gods.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, I'm going to do it.

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I just happen to find the perfect vehicle in which to do this work.

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe people will finally start to realize

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_02]: the entire suicide noted podcast is really not at all what I claim it to be.

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_02]: It is just a way for me to do the memoir work.

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I am waiting for the day.

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And I tell you, this might be my happiest memory when it happens or one of them

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_02]: when a former guest messages me and they say, I actually started my memoir.

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And the title we talked about is the title I'm using.

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Why don't you write a break?

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Everyone's memoir.

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_02]: This is the memoir.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I do titles and this podcast, this conversation is, I think,

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_02]: kind of a memoir, more of a conversational memoir.

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But nonetheless, every hour of every day, every second of every day, you are.

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_02]: It is your memoir.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You're asking me.

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like the smoothest is minute, every moment of every day,

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_02]: every second of every day, every minute of every day.

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_02]: If you're listening right now,

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_02]: you are getting in like an inside the VIP room,

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_02]: the back end of genius memoir title creators at work.

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_02]: You're literally this is something we could

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_02]: like charge thousands of dollars for in a mastermind.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, we're doing it for free right now.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm playing around every minute, every moment, every second, every hour.

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to next hour.

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_03]: What do you think?

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, what about the difference between minute and moment?

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Something about minute being a formal actual time measurement.

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, feels stronger to me.

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I also think it's slightly less used moment is used a lot.

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_02]: But minute is not.

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, we'll do that then.

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, what will the publishers say?

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I do not know. Wait a second.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you going to write your memoir?

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what to put.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_03]: My life is so boring, Sean.

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that might be the start of it.

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the first sentence right there.

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_02]: My life is so boring. I would take out Sean.

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Who's the editor now, Lucy?

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I will not write a memoir.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I will never write a memoir.

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Just so you know.

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Why would you write your memoir?

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Why would I? That's the hope.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Right, exactly. I wouldn't.

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_02]: What else would you like to share with me?

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_02]: The audience or questions you have for me?

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. Other things.

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Just that, again, I feel like sometimes that there's, you know,

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_03]: depression can be likened to a terminal illness where I feel that no matter what

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_03]: treatment, no matter what you do, even if there's momentarily, it just comes back.

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And at this point, I just feel like it's

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_03]: better just to end it than to deal with the constant medication,

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_03]: the constant treatment that gives you hope just to fail.

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And I just feel like I don't want to keep

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_03]: burdening my family with my ups and downs and with supporting me.

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And I know that in the end, even though they assure me that supporting

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_03]: me isn't a burden, I know that after the momentary shock,

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_03]: in the end, it will be better for them to not have to worry about me because

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_03]: worrying about me all the time is worse than one big worry.

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And then not have to worry at all, just thinking rationally about it.

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Because that's what you do. That's what I'm trying to do.

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_03]: So while others think that I'm thinking

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_03]: irrationally, I think I'm thinking rationally.

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. And then they can guess like the shit out of you if they say, well,

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_02]: that's what crazy people think about themselves.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_02]: No, not necessarily.

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It's very rational.

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_02]: People often think, too, they're just suffering.

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I just feel that talking to people, people say, oh, you just need to reach out and

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_03]: talk to people if you're feeling suicidal with your family.

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's no way I can talk to my family about it.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I would just get the biggest guilt trip about it, about the way I feel.

[00:46:12] [SPEAKER_03]: How could you feel that way?

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't you know how good you have it?

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, as I told you before,

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_03]: trying to compare yourself to those who have it worse, it doesn't work.

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, then you just feel not only do

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_03]: you feel depressed, but you feel bad because, you know,

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_03]: you shouldn't feel depressed compared to those who have it worse.

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So it just doesn't work.

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_03]: There's just a lot of times there's no way to feel bad about it.

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And honestly, I can't even talk.

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I really am scared to even talk to my

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_03]: psychiatrist because I don't want her to, you know, institutionalize me.

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't even want to tell her I can't tell her either.

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So there's nothing I could talk to.

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Right. I'm going to bind if I tell my

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_03]: psychiatrist she's going to put me in one of those terrible, you know,

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_03]: put me in an institution where I'll be in with someone, with people who have every

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of mental illness and they'll put me in the therapy room where I'll sit

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_03]: in a room where there'll be some therapist talking bullshit for hours a day.

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'll be in there with everybody,

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_03]: with every kind of mental illness and I'll just be falling asleep while they talk.

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I don't want that.

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So no, I don't blame you.

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't think I've ever asked this question either.

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_02]: There is in a parallel universe, Lucy in the sky in a parallel universe.

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. She is listening to you.

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm asking you, do you want to tell her anything?

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I tell her that soon this will be all over and I will be joining her in the ether

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_03]: without all this bullshit and everything will be fine.

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's it. And that's it.

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Every minute of every day, every minute.

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_03]: There'll be no minute of every day because no, no more minutes, no more days,

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_03]: no more minutes, no more days.

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you feel like you've shared what you wanted to?

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that's good.

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't wait to be honest.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to wake up anymore.

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_03]: So I can't believe I told you all this.

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So I didn't even thank you for being here in the first place.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So I certainly am thanking you now for I can't tell you how much I enjoy this.

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I really, really did.

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Me too. Perfect.

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks again, Lucy.

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Talk soon. Thank you so much.

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Bye bye.

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_02]: As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support and special thanks

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_02]: to Lucy in the sky, thanks, Lucy.

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_02]: If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, it's suicide noted dot com on Facebook or Twitter slash X at Suicide

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Noted, and you can check the show notes to learn more about this podcast,

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_02]: including our membership, and that is all for episode number two to nine.

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Stay strong. Do the best you can.

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I will talk to you soon.