Lisa in Florida

[00:00:00] You never really know what a person has or is dealing with. You can walk right by them and

[00:00:05] they can have a smile on their face and look like they've got their life together and everything

[00:00:10] is great, but you really don't know like what kind of battles they're fighting inside.

[00:00:38] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast I talk with suicide attempt

[00:00:44] survivors so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world millions of people try to

[00:00:49] take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough

[00:00:52] and when we do talk about it many of us, including me, we're not very good at it. So one of my goals

[00:00:57] with this podcast is to have more conversations, hopefully better conversations with attempt

[00:01:02] survivors in large part to help more people in more places feel a little less shitty and a little

[00:01:07] less alone. Now if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk please reach

[00:01:11] out hello at suicidenoted.com as a backup just in case suicidenoted at gmail.com you can reach

[00:01:19] out to us on Facebook or Twitter slash x which I don't check very often but nonetheless at

[00:01:25] suicide noted a week from tomorrow in the final week of May I will be heading out to a conference

[00:01:31] to talk about this podcast west of Denver and I want to thank Deanna who is a listener and a supporter

[00:01:39] who made this all happen invited me as well as a few of our guests who will be presenting

[00:01:44] co-presenting either live there or virtually so I think it's a wonderful opportunity for both me

[00:01:50] and our guests to talk more about this stuff you can learn more about this podcast if you check

[00:01:56] the show notes and that includes our membership special thanks to our members

[00:02:00] and our lifetime members Helena and Mo who gave a large financial contribution and really does help

[00:02:06] and a special thanks as well to Elizabeth a guest who has been helping me a lot in the last few

[00:02:12] months with the podcast whether you talk about it whether you listen to this or whatever you're doing

[00:02:17] to have more honest and open conversations about this rather taboo subject I thank you I really do

[00:02:23] now it comes as no surprise that we are talking about suicide on this podcast and I do not hold

[00:02:28] back so please take that into account before you listen or as you listen but I do hope you listen

[00:02:33] because there is so much to learn today I am talking with Lisa. Lisa lives in Florida and she

[00:02:39] is a suicide attempt survivor. Hey Lisa! How are you? You're in a car, shocker! Everybody's in a car lately

[00:02:49] when they talk to me! I was at work I don't have any place private at work so... Yes we can have these

[00:02:55] conversations sometimes wherever we want it might also signify if you were in fewer spaces than our

[00:03:01] private so we have to go in our fucking car. Yes! What kind of car are you in? It's a Mazda. A Mazda, okay.

[00:03:08] Where are you? Um I am in Orlando. My niece goes to school there she does Rollins. Oh that's not too far

[00:03:15] yeah. I went to the University of Florida. Okay. All right so you don't give a shit I can tell

[00:03:20] that's fine I'm not a fan we're not here to talk about the gators I understand so thanks for

[00:03:24] connecting with me. Yes I'm glad you're feeling better. Yeah I had COVID. That's fine. So we postponed

[00:03:31] this. Yeah I know it was wonderful. Have you had COVID? Just once back in January of 21 actually.

[00:03:39] How many suicide attempts do you have? I don't know if I'd actually call them

[00:03:43] attempts attempts but I've had a lot of close calls. When was the last close call? Probably

[00:03:50] about a month ago. And you're open to talking about this with me? Really what it is is there's still

[00:03:57] I think a lot I haven't said out loud. I feel like this this podcast is probably like it's me saying

[00:04:05] it out loud but not feeling like everybody is hearing me although there's still going to be a

[00:04:10] lot of people listening but it doesn't feel like a lot of people listening. Right. Like it's just a

[00:04:16] conversation. You won't know who's hearing it they're probably not until I come to Orlando.

[00:04:21] They're like hey Lisa let's get a drink I just flew in from Denmark I heard the podcast they're

[00:04:26] not gonna be able to find you unless I don't know how they would do that. Right. So do you think

[00:04:29] you'll share this with anyone when it comes out? I don't know. Yeah. Possibly. So how is it how did

[00:04:36] it come to be that you are searching for something online or on a podcast platform with the word

[00:04:42] suicide in it? Well I think what it really boiled down to was I don't really have a lot of people

[00:04:49] who understand around me and I kind of just felt like I needed to know that there was more than

[00:04:56] just me that was dealing with this. I know that there's more than just me. I'm listen I'm a mental

[00:05:01] health coach so I understand yes but sometimes even in all of that it still feels like it's just me.

[00:05:11] I'm the only one dealing with it and so it's just I was kind of looking for some kind of I guess

[00:05:17] solace in the moment. And but yet you're here because what happens sometimes is someone will

[00:05:21] reach out and I don't hear back from them and I can only guess that they they hear it maybe they've

[00:05:26] been listening to it and they like this I got to do this but then they no no no that's that was just

[00:05:31] a moment I just reached out I don't want to do it it's too much it's too soon but you're here so I

[00:05:36] appreciate that. That's a little different. Yeah yeah I mean like when I when I found your podcast

[00:05:41] I literally started at episode one and probably have listened probably listened I don't know

[00:05:46] maybe like a hundred episodes or something with every episode that I've listened to I was like no

[00:05:51] I really need to do this. Gotcha so it was sort of a building thing right it was building. Yeah.

[00:05:57] I wonder how I've changed I mean just the way I engage with people the questions maybe that I ask

[00:06:04] I'm sure that I'm not the exact same as I was you know three four years ago. No it definitely

[00:06:09] sounds like when you're talking to people now like you're you're more comfortable and in asking

[00:06:14] questions and maybe even just the understanding of why you're doing it. Says the mental health

[00:06:20] coach I love it. So you said earlier that you don't have a lot of people that understand and

[00:06:26] when you say you don't have a lot of people and I imagine like that you can talk to in your life

[00:06:32] maybe even in real life when you say that do you mean zero people or just not a lot of people?

[00:06:37] Well I mean like I have I have my therapist and there's there's like one other person who has

[00:06:42] kind of been through some stuff and you know suicidal ideation and all of that but I tend to

[00:06:49] not want to talk to her because she is quite a bit younger than me I mean like she could be my

[00:06:53] daughter you know and so there have been moments that I've helped her through but I don't want to

[00:07:00] put that on her so I don't really I don't really talk to her much like she knows what I've gone

[00:07:06] through she but I don't like reach out to her when I'm struggling. That makes sense so you find the

[00:07:11] podcast you listen eventually you reach out we're talking you probably you may may not share with

[00:07:17] people you have had a lot of close calls you said the most recent one was about a month ago when do

[00:07:24] you recall when did you first start to feel like maybe I don't want to be alive? Um I think it

[00:07:33] probably started maybe like towards the end of middle school beginning of high school I grew up

[00:07:38] in a very abusive home um and then I was also sexually abused by a relative with it that lasted

[00:07:44] for about 10 years and so um I think it's when I started to get into middle school and high school

[00:07:50] I think I really started to understand the repercussions of everything that was happening

[00:07:55] and I started really taking on kind of like a shame and guilt like everything was my fault

[00:08:01] kind of thing um and so I just started I really started to process through like well maybe because

[00:08:08] everything is my fault it would just be easier if I wasn't here. What was the first close call?

[00:08:14] The first close call didn't happen until I was a junior in high school. Okay. Um so that was back

[00:08:21] in like 97 98 I had been through you know a lot and and I was still carrying a lot of the shame

[00:08:29] and guilt and actually like nobody knew I never said anything about the sexual abuse that was

[00:08:34] happening um as far as I knew my parents didn't know about it so I was holding a lot in which

[00:08:40] you know is not not healthy so I actually had come up with the plan that I was going to

[00:08:47] when I just I was a meth addict by the end. You were what a meth addict? For someone like me and

[00:08:54] maybe a lot of others who don't know much about that particularly meth like you're able to go to

[00:09:00] class? Yeah so the weird thing is I actually functioned better while I was on it and it it

[00:09:06] helped to numb a lot. Meth was like my American Express car you know I never left home without it

[00:09:12] I never went home without it either I was just never I was never without it. Just to be clear

[00:09:16] we're not endorsing American Express directly here so American Express never leave home never

[00:09:21] leave home without it and in your version with meth never go home without it either.

[00:09:28] Makes total sense if you're numbing the pain and I'm not encouraging drug use here but it

[00:09:33] makes total sense it numbs the pain and you're functioning better or at least you felt that way

[00:09:38] I don't know if we can even measure such a thing right but I get why people would do that 100%.

[00:09:43] Yeah absolutely and I actually I watched um a video with John Crist not too long ago in his

[00:09:50] his addiction and um it was really talking about how in the moment addiction actually helped you

[00:09:56] survive. Yeah oh yeah. Looking back on it that's that's what it was it was it was a coping mechanism

[00:10:01] really so yeah I had planned to like I I bought enough meth to like kind of just numb me out

[00:10:08] and then I had planned on like just slitting my wrists so I was gonna be numb enough that I

[00:10:13] wouldn't even like really feel it. Didn't happen? No it didn't I was sitting in my room that night

[00:10:19] and I was just like I can't I can't do it couldn't go through with it I I had the razor blade in my

[00:10:25] hand but I just couldn't do it. What stopped you? Looking back on it I think I knew that I had

[00:10:33] purpose in life I just didn't know at the time what it was. When do you or do you get off meth?

[00:10:40] I actually stopped meth um I went I went cold turkey which I don't recommend to anybody

[00:10:47] um that was horrible but I stopped when I was 19. Okay so nobody finds out about the fact that you

[00:10:58] were assaulted for a long time? Right no nobody knew not not even my husband my husband and I

[00:11:04] that were married for 17 years before I even told him. Nobody finds out that you tried to you almost

[00:11:09] ended your life at 17 years old 16 years old? Does anybody know today? How many people knew

[00:11:16] about the fact that you were regularly using meth in high school? Mainly the people that I was doing

[00:11:21] it with and then I had a couple of managers that I worked for bless them they um they loved it

[00:11:29] actually when I came in and they knew that I was tweaking because the whole place was clean

[00:11:35] everything was done. Were you in the service restaurant field? Yeah it's probably so common

[00:11:41] in that field. It really is I mean I don't think there was one person that I worked with that

[00:11:46] didn't do something. That was the first one the last one was about a month ago so if my math is

[00:11:52] correct 25 years go by? Yeah that's about right yeah. How many close calls have you had in that

[00:11:59] time? Maybe close to a dozen. So this is happening I wouldn't say regularly but there's not a

[00:12:06] particularly long many years period of time where you're just it's not a thought? Right I mean I

[00:12:12] still have suicidal ideation pretty much daily. So in that 25 plus years how often and I know these

[00:12:19] are some tricky questions but how often are you thinking about this? Is it like once in a while or

[00:12:26] is it many times a day? I think it really depends on where my mental state is at the time. There are

[00:12:35] moments where it's all I think about and there have been times when it's just been like a thought

[00:12:42] one thought comes in during the day and then it leaves and then I don't think about it for the

[00:12:47] rest of the day so it really kind of fluctuates depending on where I'm at mentally. How do you

[00:12:53] get out of it? Gosh when I'm in it it's so hard to get out of it. It's really taken me a long time

[00:13:01] to learn how to talk about what I'm dealing with so I just started talking about it probably

[00:13:08] maybe like seven years ago openly the abuse the sexual abuse the suicidal ideation like all of it

[00:13:15] really just started talking about it with the amount of abuse that I suffered in reality it's

[00:13:21] a short period of time in the healing process. Going to a therapist I have a great great

[00:13:27] counselor I absolutely love her. Learning how to be vulnerable with my own husband which has been

[00:13:34] kind of a learning curve for me as well because being open and vulnerable to somebody that I'm

[00:13:39] supposed to trust has never been a thing in my life. Trying to learn how to talk about it more

[00:13:46] really is kind of what's helping the most. I'm also doing EMDR. How's that going? It's going

[00:13:55] good. People are like oh you only have to do EMDR for however long like a short period of time. I've

[00:14:02] been doing EMDR for a year just because I have to process there's so many memories. What happened

[00:14:07] seven years ago that you started talking about it? Crazy thing I started working I actually work

[00:14:14] at a church and one of my co-workers just started asking me questions about the way I grew up and

[00:14:21] you know just trying to get to know me kind of stuff and for a long time I would never answer

[00:14:26] any questions that she had and finally I was just like do you really want to know because I'll tell

[00:14:31] you. I just kind of let it all out at that point. That actually was a good thing and a bad thing at

[00:14:37] the same time because floodgates opened and I had suppressed stuff for so long that when I did start

[00:14:44] to talk about it like I really I spiraled really fast. Right so this is one of the things that you

[00:14:50] hear a lot in the mental health space in my experience just talk about it and it's like

[00:14:54] there's an asterisk there be careful. So in your case that's a perfect example there's other

[00:15:00] examples where we know when you just talk about it you know depending on how you're talking about

[00:15:05] it and where you're talking about it who you're talking about it to not everyone's open to hearing

[00:15:09] it not everyone treats you nicely that could be harmful so I'm not dissuading people from talking

[00:15:14] about it my god I have a podcast that would be a mistake but I get it just to just talk about it

[00:15:19] like that's sloppy advice at best. Anyway I'm on my pedestal again Lisa just knock me the fuck

[00:15:25] off that because I don't belong there. Did you say that you you cut out for a moment earlier you say

[00:15:29] work worked or work at a church? I do currently work at a church yeah. So you do have a faith you

[00:15:37] adhere to? Yeah um I'm part of the Assemblies of God the domination. What does that mean?

[00:15:44] Um it's really just a protestant or pentecostal you know christian. This is actually interesting

[00:15:49] these conversations usually have a little more like this is what happened first this is what

[00:15:54] happened but I kind of like this because we're moving in different directions so all right

[00:15:57] listeners pay attention Lisa and I are going in different places um buckle up but do do those who

[00:16:05] adhere to that faith believe in heaven or hell? Yeah. Do those if you know who believe in that

[00:16:11] faith what are their thoughts if you know on suicide? I think it's kind of a sticky kind of

[00:16:19] messy subject some of them believe that if you if you um do take your own life you're going to hell

[00:16:26] I've talked to others even within my own church that think that you know you can ask forgiveness

[00:16:33] like as soon as you do it and you're still going to heaven depending on who you talk to and I think

[00:16:38] that's with any any church really depending on who you talk to the the beliefs are a little bit

[00:16:43] different on that because the I don't think that it's very clear um even in the bible what happens

[00:16:50] well I'm not a I'm not much of a man of faith have a pretty good idea I know how what Jesus would say

[00:16:55] they could be pretty nice about it if he had a tattoo and I don't think he did

[00:16:59] it might be like forgiveness or a symbol of that so okay you were suffering you made a choice have

[00:17:06] you belonged to this church or denomination for a long time? Um I have been at this particular church

[00:17:12] for uh about 16 years I've worked there for eight. Did you grow up going to church? I grew up in and

[00:17:21] out of a catholic church actually my parents went to church for a little while and then stopped

[00:17:27] going um when I was probably in maybe sixth grade um but my grandparents were very very developed

[00:17:36] catholic. So did you sort of leave that and eventually find your way back to religion?

[00:17:40] Oh yeah I totally um at one point I was an atheist. Well I'm curious what got you back to

[00:17:47] believing? It was really weird so my husband was in the army so we we were stationed in Hawaii

[00:17:53] actually for a little while. Nice. Um I know it's a rough life um yeah we met a couple out in Hawaii

[00:18:00] they just invited me and my husband out to um one of the Easter services and we went just kind of

[00:18:07] to be nice really while I was at the service they did a whole production on the crucifixion of Jesus

[00:18:15] and the resurrection of him and and I was just like wow like he did that for me it hit me at

[00:18:23] that moment and so that kind of is what started my journey of coming back. Yeah so a month ago

[00:18:30] you had a close call was that the same method as the first time and I'll ask about the other

[00:18:36] times at some point too was it going to be razor blade? Yes there was no meth involved at that time

[00:18:42] but yes. No meth same method? Yeah. What stopped you? I think probably really thinking about

[00:18:50] because now I'm married I've got kids I literally was like sitting on my living room couch in the

[00:18:55] middle of the night getting ready to do it like right there on the couch just kind of started

[00:19:00] thinking like about the kids they don't need to see that how much it would hurt them if if I did

[00:19:07] do that and like even just thinking my you know my husband like I would leave him with all four

[00:19:13] kids and you know the responsibility of handling everything on his own yeah I mean it was really

[00:19:18] just thinking about the kids and my husband. Four kids, busy person, busy mother, busy human.

[00:19:24] Yes. Here's a question that I think I'm asking less so from my perspective but more from people

[00:19:30] who may not really get this stuff and look I know they may not be listening to this but they might

[00:19:35] be if you know that you don't want to and I'm paraphrasing here so forgive me if I'm a little

[00:19:41] off have your kids or your husband see this or experience this how do you end up on that couch

[00:19:45] in the middle of the night in the first place? I actually had been triggered due to a very close

[00:19:52] friend of mine who told me that her daughter was just sexually abused by a family member and so it

[00:19:59] kind of you know memories flashbacks all of the pain coming back a lot of emotion a lot of pain

[00:20:07] it got to a point where I'm just like I don't know if I can handle the amount of pain that I'm in

[00:20:13] right now my own pain and then also like I was just I was angry for my friend's daughter and

[00:20:20] I was kind of feeling you know like I I know her pain it just kind of spiraled from there the

[00:20:26] thoughts started bombarding me and just kind of went from there. Is that similar to the other

[00:20:33] attempts or the near attempts? Do you see a pattern I guess is the best way to to ask that

[00:20:38] question that you get triggered? Yeah um most of them are are me being triggered by something even

[00:20:45] like a past abuse there was like cardboard boxes involved and like there was a point where just

[00:20:52] seeing a cardboard box would trigger me and I could spiral out of control just from seeing a

[00:20:58] cardboard box thankfully EMDR has helped with that one a lot yeah I mean it was just you know like

[00:21:03] things smells just hearing certain things um I got triggered once because I found out that my parents

[00:21:10] allowed my abuser to move into their house so anytime I would call and talk to my parents I

[00:21:15] would hear his voice in the background it was a lot. Kind of makes sense how some people in order

[00:21:20] to sort of like minimize the possibility of being triggered just maybe they stay at home a lot maybe

[00:21:25] they just to control the environment because it's less likely that's going to happen like I get that

[00:21:30] I kind of do that yeah I actually tend to make myself busy I overdo it until I get completely

[00:21:36] just exhausted and can't go anymore. If somebody were whether they're a fly on the wall wall or

[00:21:42] whatever they were to see you and you get triggered and then maybe sometimes it leads to sitting on

[00:21:48] your couch in the middle of the night or whatever would we see it would we see oh shit Lisa is

[00:21:55] melting no actually um I'm really good at putting on masks a lot of the times nobody would know

[00:22:03] that there was anything wrong with me until I got to that point where I was just ready to be done.

[00:22:10] How do you feel about being alive? Oh that's not a big question Sean. I still believe that I have

[00:22:16] a purpose there are definitely days when I am like I don't care about purpose I just want to be done

[00:22:24] but I try to remember like it's not I try to take the focus off of me and I actually do better when

[00:22:31] I focus on other people and helping other people. I try to just focus on that instead of allowing

[00:22:38] myself to dwell on on my own thoughts so yeah. So there are people in the world that know that

[00:22:44] you have had these near attempts other than your therapist. Sounds like she or he does because

[00:22:48] you say they're really good and yeah yeah she she definitely knows. How many other people know?

[00:22:53] My husband knows a lot of the ladies at my church know because I have I have given my testimony.

[00:23:00] Our church is actually really good about addressing mental health a lot of churches kind of shun it

[00:23:06] a lot of people in the Christian community can be judgmental because they don't understand it really

[00:23:11] but our church is really good about actually addressing it so we have things called God

[00:23:15] Encounters where we bring people in and I actually talked about my story a little bit

[00:23:20] kind of some of the stuff that I've been through and you know even the walking through forgiving

[00:23:27] my own dad for the physical abuse and my family member who sexually abused me although forgiveness

[00:23:33] is kind of a daily thing. Yeah so a lot of the ladies at the church know because it was a ladies

[00:23:39] event that I that I spoke at but they don't know that I still struggle sometimes. Our church is

[00:23:46] actually really good about dealing with stuff in the present the not talking about it in the present

[00:23:50] is more my own insecurities. There's some people in the church that that are more I don't think

[00:23:56] they I don't want to say understanding but I don't know if that's the right word because it's hard

[00:24:00] to understand it if you haven't been through it but more I guess compassionate if you're still

[00:24:06] going through it and then obviously with every church there's going to be judgmental people. I

[00:24:10] mean the good thing about our church is we we have a counseling department within our church that

[00:24:15] you know we have mental health counselors, we have mental health coaches, we have pastoral counselors

[00:24:20] so it's I mean we we really address things that are happening in the present. I just I have a hard

[00:24:26] time saying I'm struggling like in the present but I think that also has to do a lot with childhood

[00:24:35] because anytime I spoke up about feelings I was told to grow up get over it I got you know

[00:24:41] slapped around you know I was never allowed to express myself. Yeah that's not an easy thing

[00:24:46] to undo so I'm going to ask you a question now are you struggling? So you're are you at the church

[00:24:52] parking lot right now? No I am actually in the parking lot of a park. Did you tell anybody husband

[00:25:00] therapist ladies others that you're talking with me today? No. Will you tell people? I'm not sure

[00:25:09] um I think if I were to tell anybody would probably be my therapist. Because I'm always curious about

[00:25:15] people's experiences not just like kind of this is what I went through but even in like hearing a

[00:25:21] podcast like this or like hearing themselves on a podcast like this do you think you'll listen to

[00:25:26] your own voice which I know can maybe be the hardest thing? I think I might make myself only

[00:25:32] because I think I need to hear it. I need to hear that I'm saying I'm struggling. Uh-huh. Yeah. When

[00:25:42] you think about the reasons why you came close to dying by your own hand is there a why? That's

[00:25:48] essentially the no-no question you know you're not supposed to ask somebody why but I am curious

[00:25:52] is there a why? I really think that the biggest reason is because I really blamed myself for

[00:26:00] everything that happened. The physical abuse from my dad I even like the sexual abuse more so because

[00:26:07] I don't know I've just always had this thought in my head that I did something to provoke it um or

[00:26:13] I did something to deserve it. Just the thought of that has always made me just feel dirty. I've spent

[00:26:22] basically my entire life just feeling damaged, broken. I don't want to feel damaged anymore.

[00:26:29] Yeah. I sometimes think about like the secrets we keep for obviously understandable reasons and I

[00:26:35] think about like especially you know younger people middle school high school 20s whatever

[00:26:40] you could be in the same room as people who have gone through something similar but nobody's talking

[00:26:44] about attempting suicide having been assaulted other things and so there you are in high school

[00:26:51] feeling the way you're feeling and there might be other women young men too dealing with this but we

[00:26:56] don't talk about it and I get it I'm not saying what should be done I'm just saying the fact that

[00:27:00] wow it's all there. Yeah absolutely you know even just being like a mental health coach I'm learning

[00:27:07] how many people in the church are even dealing with that kind of stuff in their past or even

[00:27:13] dealing with it now you never really know what a person has or is dealing with. You can walk right

[00:27:20] by them and they can have a smile on their face and look like they've got their life together and

[00:27:26] everything is great but you really don't know like what kind of battles they're fighting inside.

[00:27:31] For sure. How long have you been going to a therapist for? I started going to a therapist

[00:27:36] shortly after I kind of blurted everything out to that co-worker which was in 2018 maybe. I was

[00:27:43] seeing one of the the therapists that we had at the church for about a year and then I switched

[00:27:48] over to this new one I call her new I've been seeing her for a while but then I switched over

[00:27:53] to this one. It's the woman? Yeah. Does she has she ever diagnosed you with anything you think is

[00:27:59] accurate? So funny thing nobody has ever given me an actual diagnosis. Wow it's 2024 nobody's

[00:28:07] giving you a diagnosis? Crazy thing I'm on antidepressants I'm on anxiety medication but

[00:28:13] nobody has ever told me you have. I'm gonna ask you what do you think you have if anything?

[00:28:18] I definitely I know there's there's a lot of anxiety that I have I know there's it's got to

[00:28:24] be like major depression just because of the episodes that I've been through and just kind

[00:28:30] of doing my own research on it yeah the rest of it I'm not really sure. I mean I know a lot of

[00:28:34] people who have dealt with what you've dealt with are dealing with some form of PTSD or CPTSD right?

[00:28:39] Yeah I definitely actually it's definitely possible for CPTSD. With the understanding that

[00:28:45] it's possible your husband might hear this but can you talk to him about this stuff? And I don't mean

[00:28:50] just mention it I mean talk talk. Yeah well I'm learning my therapist is actually working on me

[00:28:56] or working with me on learning how to communicate with him just because I've held so much inside

[00:29:03] you know and never really like again you know I was never allowed to express myself to anybody that

[00:29:09] I should have been allowed to be vulnerable with growing up so even with him I find myself when I

[00:29:15] try and talk to him I tend to shut down and then I just I can't talk so we're learning I'm in the

[00:29:22] learning process of communicating with him. Is there any risk that this new you he might not like?

[00:29:29] I don't think so he's actually been very understanding and helpful through all of it

[00:29:35] so once I did kind of communicate a little bit of what was going on he's I mean he's been a huge

[00:29:42] huge support. All right go husband. Yeah yeah I listen that man I can't even express like what

[00:29:51] he has done. When you think about the not just the near attempts the stuff that life in between as

[00:29:58] well do you ever have any regrets and to be really explicit about this like I wish I had done the

[00:30:05] thing or try? I do a lot of it goes back to if I had actually gone through with it in high school

[00:30:13] then my kids wouldn't have to watch me suffer you know I wouldn't be putting my husband through

[00:30:19] all of this either and so I do I think back a lot on I should have just done it in high school.

[00:30:27] You specifically go back to the first one or two early? Yeah. Were you in Florida for those years?

[00:30:34] No actually I was in Missouri. Missouri the old classic Missouri to Florida connection of course

[00:30:41] so we've already it's like you don't have a ton of people to talk to you'd said you have your

[00:30:45] therapist you have one other woman she's younger. Yeah I mean I've got I've got a great group of

[00:30:52] girlfriends that I could confide in but they don't necessarily know what it's like

[00:31:00] to be that close to the edge you know and they're in the Christian community too so it's there's

[00:31:06] been a lot of the few times that I have opened up to them it's been just very well you need to do

[00:31:12] this and you need to do that and that's like well you don't think that if that would have worked

[00:31:19] like I would have done it you know? It's insulting. Yeah yeah it's not that they're I don't think

[00:31:26] trying to be not compassionate in it I just think there's a lot of ignorance in it. Yeah okay.

[00:31:34] So yeah but it's not helpful it's not it's not helpful and you know I have a really hard time

[00:31:39] communicating that with them saying hey what you're saying to me is not helpful. Why I just wonder

[00:31:47] why people somewhat often assume that when you're sharing something with them not that you're asking

[00:31:53] for that kind of response but how is that ever a response that makes sense? I don't really get it.

[00:31:58] Yeah I don't I don't really either I try to justify in my head it's just because they're

[00:32:04] ignorant in the in the situation but I really I don't know I mean that's just me probably trying

[00:32:10] to justify but. Sure and yeah I get that I don't know and I don't know them and I'm not throwing

[00:32:16] shade or blame on them it's just interesting because it doesn't really feel like the kind

[00:32:19] of thing that's necessarily about mental health let's say or suffering it's just more around how

[00:32:24] you communicate with people they're different things. Yeah like I understand the thing we're

[00:32:28] talking about we've all dealt with it's a different conversation maybe but the irony is if you listen

[00:32:34] well and you connect with somebody and you sort of create that kind of a space should it come up that

[00:32:39] they tell you what to do not that they would even more likely to listen like if you don't do that

[00:32:44] then unless it's like a an eight-year-old kid who kind of has no choice but to listen to his

[00:32:50] parents said you need to do this I don't think adults listen to that kind of language almost

[00:32:54] ever. Yeah because I think a lot of times adults want to always fix the problem one it's not their

[00:33:01] problem to fix and two like you you can't you can't fix it because what happened happened and

[00:33:07] two there's a lot that I have to process through sometimes the processing hurts but I have to go

[00:33:15] through it and so sometimes I just need to be able to voice what I'm feeling without you coming back

[00:33:22] and telling me what I should or should not do. And how many times does that have to happen before

[00:33:27] and this might not apply to you necessarily but others before they're like you know what I'm just

[00:33:32] I'm not going to talk to them at least not about that it does not have to happen more than once or

[00:33:36] twice. Right and that's kind of where I'm at now like you know they're great friends I absolutely

[00:33:40] love them you know I consider them my sisters but that is one subject I don't really talk much about

[00:33:46] anymore with them. It's just it's just a shame that people sometimes make the assumption that

[00:33:51] if someone's sharing something difficult with them they interpret that as you're asking to be fixed

[00:33:58] which is not what's happening. Right. The way you would know if someone wants to be fixed or even

[00:34:03] let's use softer language is looking for advice is they'll ask you it's so simple I'm looking for

[00:34:10] some help with this I'm looking to see what doctor you suggest it's just weird. And I don't think

[00:34:15] people realize how much damage it causes. I often wonder or think about like when people say well

[00:34:22] they just won't open up to me they won't talk to me anymore I'm like hmm I wish I could have a

[00:34:26] little like 10 year video capture of these little moments in which you were interacting with this

[00:34:31] person and just see what that was like and maybe there were things you said and maybe that's one of

[00:34:35] the reasons why they're not so quick to share stuff with you. It's complicated I don't mean to

[00:34:39] simplify it but you're doing something that I have in my life struggled hard to do is when

[00:34:44] someone doesn't allow me to talk in a certain way about that kind of stuff I don't I'm not really

[00:34:50] friends with them so I admire people who are like no I can be friends with them I just won't talk

[00:34:54] about certain things and it's okay we'll find common ground. Yeah. When you're feeling shitty

[00:34:59] what helps if anything? Getting outside and getting moving which is actually really kind of

[00:35:06] hard for me right now because in the springtime I am allergic to the outside. In Florida there's

[00:35:11] I'm allergic to oak trees and there's oak trees everywhere so I can't really get outside and get

[00:35:18] moving you know like I would like to because then I have to end up taking Benadryl every four hours

[00:35:24] but that's one thing that really helps is actually being outside. I don't know if it's just

[00:35:29] you know like being in the sun and getting that vitamin D or you know like I love to look at trees

[00:35:35] and just scenery and you know like being by creeks or rivers or something you know it just

[00:35:41] it's very calming for me. And the tree I see behind you is that an oak tree?

[00:35:46] Probably comes as no surprise that I'm not much of a botany guy. So you've never had a hospital

[00:35:52] stay mental health related? I have not but I probably should have many times. I know you had

[00:36:00] your period of time for at least a few years or a couple years doing meth did you ever drink or drug

[00:36:05] after that excessively? Excessively no I have not touched any type of drugs recreationally since

[00:36:13] I quit meth only because I know that if I do it's it's over like I'm gonna go down that hole

[00:36:20] and I'm gonna go down it fast. Drinking I didn't do it excessively but you know when you turn 21

[00:36:27] you go out and you drink so I did I did have a little bit of a period where I was going out to

[00:36:32] clubs and all of that but I don't I don't drink anymore either so. Wow it sounds like over the

[00:36:38] years there was a fair amount of what we call white knuckling. Oh yeah I mean there's there's still

[00:36:44] a lot of white knuckling. Yeah it's got to be tiring as fuck as we say capital A capital F

[00:36:50] excuse my French. It's exhausting I'm even at the point where like when the doctors want to prescribe

[00:36:55] me narcotics I'm like no just what what is the strongest Tylenol I can take because I don't even

[00:37:01] want to take the chance. That is not a suicidal mind maybe I'm not understanding it maybe it is

[00:37:07] I don't know is it? It's really because I I don't want to get hooked on depending on something to

[00:37:15] get me through. Yeah I get to these places where I just I don't want to be here anymore mentally

[00:37:22] but sometimes I feel like I need to get to those places in order to get to the next level of my

[00:37:27] healing. Yeah I don't I don't want to go back into you know just depending on coping mechanisms

[00:37:33] especially the unhealthy ones. I don't want the kids to see me as a drug addict.

[00:37:37] Sure you know in high school I was pretty high functioning on it but you know who's to say

[00:37:42] what I would be like now. Yeah I don't I don't want them to see me like completely you know

[00:37:47] like lose my mind and you know we see a lot of there's a lot of homeless people around here that

[00:37:51] are on all kinds of stuff and you see them and they're not they're not in their right mind and

[00:37:57] I just I don't want the kids to see me in that state of mind and so I think about that a lot.

[00:38:02] Yeah I just don't want to I don't want to become dependent on something.

[00:38:06] Yeah if you've only listened to not only but if you've listened up to about episode 100 or

[00:38:12] whatever you don't know about the pink and purple pill question do you? Actually I do because I have

[00:38:18] listened to the last couple of weeks the ones that you put out on Mondays. All right so just for our

[00:38:23] listeners because maybe they haven't heard it I give Lisa this pill and she goes to sleep and

[00:38:31] she's not in any pain she doesn't wake up and nobody knows it's a suicide she just died in her

[00:38:37] sleep do you take the pill? I think I would actually probably hold on to it. Better keep

[00:38:43] that shit away from the kids. Yeah yeah like on my body at all times. I just want to say this and I

[00:38:48] don't think I've ever said this before in the unlikely event somebody's listening and they're

[00:38:52] going to google pink and purple cool it's not real I just made it all up do you have any um are there

[00:38:58] any myths or misconceptions about any of this stuff suicide related drug related uh assault

[00:39:04] related whatever else related? I think one is it's not that easy to just get over a lot of people are

[00:39:12] just like hey just get over it it's not that easy like you can't just get over sexual assault that's

[00:39:18] happened for a decade you can't just get over an entire childhood of being physically abused

[00:39:24] you can't just get over depression like it doesn't it doesn't work that way and then I think

[00:39:29] another one is really involving like the church I think a lot of people think that everyone in

[00:39:36] the church or that that nobody in the church is suffering when in reality there's a lot of people

[00:39:41] in the church that are suffering and just don't know it because you know the Christian community

[00:39:47] likes to walk around well I mean it's it's in any community but we walk around with masks on

[00:39:51] and pretend that everything is okay I always tell people the church is like a hospital you know

[00:39:55] there's there's broken people in the church too and you know just because we're Christian doesn't mean

[00:40:00] that we have it all together. Yeah by the way as far as when you said just get over it and just

[00:40:07] whatever else I guess kind of give a quick communication tip to people and I got a lot to

[00:40:11] learn about communicating don't get me wrong take just out of your vocabulary when you're ever talking

[00:40:15] to somebody that's in pain it'll be better. 100 percent. And it still makes grammatical sense

[00:40:20] now to say to somebody get over it as opposed to just well you're still a jerk okay so it doesn't

[00:40:25] mean that but like start there. Yeah I think using the word just makes it sound like it's it's an

[00:40:31] easy thing to do. Totally I should blame Nike for that and their damn slogan you had said earlier

[00:40:37] that you at least on one occasion it sounds like more than that you've shared your story at the

[00:40:41] church with the ladies given that you've done that given that I'm kind of obsessed with memoir

[00:40:46] titles I don't know if you've heard that in the other podcasts you may have. I have. Usually because

[00:40:52] it's a gift I come on with it myself uh I give myself license to do that I I don't know what do

[00:40:58] you think it is? That's a good question yeah I don't know what my memoir would be. You don't have

[00:41:04] to tell us you know we don't have to know but it's it might come to you at some point maybe

[00:41:08] when you're driving back from the park to the church son of a gun that's it. I mean I always

[00:41:13] tell people even in like when I'm doing sessions and mental health coaching I always tell them

[00:41:17] healing is a process maybe that's part of it maybe. It's a process. Tell me about mental health coaching.

[00:41:24] Well I actually I got involved in it in in the church really because I wanted to help other

[00:41:29] people who are dealing with really like trauma like I really love helping people in trauma not

[00:41:37] just like dealing with you know marital issues or not to say that those aren't important I want to be

[00:41:43] in the trenches with the people who are sitting on their couch in the middle of the night with

[00:41:47] razor blades in their hands. Sorry I want to hear more that's connected to the memoir title it's

[00:41:52] possible something about a couch. Lisa it's a gift just say yes okay let's move on. Absolutely you

[00:41:58] know I I took some some courses to do mental health coaching um my heart in it really is to

[00:42:05] work with the kids and the youth. I really believe that the kids who are in trauma if we can get them

[00:42:11] into therapy and if we can get them on the right track as a child their adulthood not to say that

[00:42:18] it's going to be perfect but it will be better. So you know I really love working with the kids

[00:42:25] and the youth yeah like I just when I'm in a session I really just sit there and I'm like this

[00:42:31] is what I meant to do like I absolutely love it. Which is the thing or one of the things that

[00:42:37] kept you alive. Yeah absolutely yeah the search for that yeah. When did you become a coach? I became

[00:42:43] a coach I think two years ago. That's a long search. Yeah but before I became a mental health

[00:42:49] coach I was I was still volunteering in our counseling department as a biblical lay counselor

[00:42:54] and then I was part of our inner healing team which has kind of been disbanded right now but

[00:43:00] it's more prayer focused healing. I also got some training to be an ambassador at the church which

[00:43:07] for people who are like coming to the altar for prayer and stuff like that if they're in crisis

[00:43:12] the altar team is not necessarily trained to deal with people in crisis so if somebody comes to the

[00:43:17] altar they can hand them off to an ambassador who is a little bit more trained. So then I have

[00:43:23] ambassadorship, I have mental health coaching and then I'm also a chaplain in the ambassador team so

[00:43:29] I have a little bit of you know that background too. So like that's what I do I help people.

[00:43:35] Helping people helps me. There you go that's what it is. Got to be part of the memoir title.

[00:43:40] Sounds like a big church by the way. Yeah I mean we have probably like 7,000 people come through in

[00:43:45] a week. So we're not talking your little rinky dink southern church on uh in the backwoods here

[00:43:49] with you know a congregation of 35 people in the pews every Sunday. No. Is this one of these mega

[00:43:56] churches? It's considered a mega church I don't know how like well known it is like nationally.

[00:44:03] In your near attempts was it always the same method? Yeah. Something about the blade okay.

[00:44:08] I think what it is because I did a lot of a lot of cutting when I was younger I think it's the

[00:44:15] physicalness of the blade that really sticks out to me you know like when I cut I'm like okay now

[00:44:22] I have an actual wound to go with the pain. Makes sense. Do you think that you will die in

[00:44:29] quote unquote natural death? I hope so. I mean I can't really know the future but yeah I hope.

[00:44:36] What else would you like to share Lisa in Florida? The one thing that I would really love to share

[00:44:41] maybe those who who have a loved one or a friend who's dealing with mental health issues or even

[00:44:48] like suicidal ideation like don't tell them that you're there for them if you can't be. I've had

[00:44:56] that happen to me several times and that really it did a lot of emotional damage to me. There was

[00:45:05] a night I was literally I called like seven people because it was really on the brink you know it was

[00:45:11] the seventh person that was finally like okay I'll come sit with you but then I had you know like two

[00:45:16] people tell me afterwards like hey I can't I can't be friends with you anymore but those are

[00:45:22] friends who had told me I'm here for you whatever you need and that was one of them was like 10 years

[00:45:28] worth of friendship. If you can't support somebody going through this issue be up front with them

[00:45:35] like don't tell them that you're gonna be there for them and then turn around and not do it. No

[00:45:41] points for just saying the words. If you say it you need to follow through with it. Well thanks

[00:45:47] for talking. Yeah absolutely thank you for having me. Sure what are you gonna do for the rest of

[00:45:52] the day? You going back to the church? Yeah we have service tonight so I have to work. Your kids

[00:45:56] and husband go to that? Yeah. So you go back to the church now it's mid-afternoon and then later

[00:46:04] you see your family at the church? Yeah. It's not bad. Yeah yeah they I mean the kids love it

[00:46:10] they've been my kids don't know any other place like they've been in that church since they were

[00:46:14] babies so. Wow are you an Orlando Magic fan or do you not care? I don't really watch basketball

[00:46:21] I went to a magic game actually last week because my daughter is in dance and she danced at the

[00:46:27] pre-game show. Oh wow. I don't know I couldn't I couldn't focus on the game like I really I think

[00:46:34] I have ADD. I really was more focused on the people cleaning the other side of the court that nobody

[00:46:39] was on instead of like what was happening with the ball. Right I could see why you would focus

[00:46:44] on that than the basketball game sure. All right the only thing I watch is football. Who do you

[00:46:48] like? Who's your team? Chiefs yeah I'm from Kansas City so. Oh shit so you were a Chiefs fan before

[00:46:55] they got good again. Yes yes I was a Chiefs fan back in the Alex Smith era you know before Andy

[00:47:03] Reed and all of that so. Arrowhead Stadium go Chiefs another Super Bowl under their belt well done.

[00:47:12] Okay let's get back to our lives you go to the church I go well I'm probably just staying here

[00:47:18] at my kitchen table thanks again for talking. Thank you. As always thanks so much for listening

[00:47:25] and all of your support and special thanks to Lisa down in Florida. Thanks again Lisa. If you

[00:47:31] are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk please reach out hello at suicidenoted.com

[00:47:37] as a backup just in case suicidenoted at gmail.com you can also message us on Facebook or Twitter

[00:47:45] slash x at suicidenoted and you can check the show notes to learn more about the podcast

[00:47:50] including our membership. However you are involved you participate you support us thanks very much

[00:47:57] and that is all for episode number 213 stay strong do the best you can I'll talk to you soon.