L in Virginia

[00:00:00] It's not like I want to die. Even riding horses, I'm like, I don't want to die. I just think it's really fun to do this dangerous thing. Skydiving, same thing. I didn't think I wanted to die. Although looking back, I think I was trying to simulate suicide in a way. Part of me wanted to jump off something and just free fall.

[00:00:41] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough. And when we do talk about it, many of us, most of us, we suck at it. And that's a big deal.

[00:01:03] So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors in large part to help more people in more places hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone. Now, if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out. Our email is hello at suicidenoted.com. It's that simple. I'd love to hear from you.

[00:01:25] I have also scheduled a listeners meeting for Sunday, February 16th at 8 p.m. Eastern. It is the first one. There will be more. But if you are a listener, whether you are an attempt survivor or not, and you'd like to connect, talk, I'd love to meet you, talk with you. You can keep your video off. It's all good. We'll be meeting on Zoom. The link is in the show notes and you just have to show up. You don't need to confirm. There will be more again if you can't make this one. But I hope you can make this one.

[00:01:53] And a quick favor. As you know, I am doing my very best to fundraise for this podcast and some related projects around this podcast. If you know people who might want to support, if you know people who know people, perhaps they are involved in grant writing or fundraising or whatever else, please let me know. Shoot me an email. Message me on social media. I'm doing my best to make this happen to expand our reach and impact.

[00:02:23] And as you know, try to help more people in more places feel a little less shitty and a little less alone. And this is mostly how I do it. But hey, however you're involved, participate, support. I appreciate it. Finally, we are talking about suicide on this podcast and me and my guests, we don't typically hold back. So please take that into account before you listen or as you listen. But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn. Today, I am talking with Elle. Elle lives in Virginia and she is a suicide attempt survivor.

[00:02:55] Hello, Elle. Hey, how are you? Doing okay. Where are you? Virginia. Okay, so my neighbor. Let me say this. Thank you for joining me here. I appreciate it. You have one attempt, right? Yep. And this was not recent? No. You're in your mid-40s, right? Yes. How old were you for the attempt? 17. And were you in Virginia, New York? No, I was in Chicago. Okay. Tell me about Chicago.

[00:03:23] Prior to the attempt, I had a really happy childhood. I feel like nothing crazy happened up until I turned about eight. My family moved from Virginia to Chicago. My dad was Marines. He had ended his career with the Marines and then wanted to go back to the Marines. So he joined the reserves.

[00:03:41] But we had to move to Chicago in order for him to do that. About three days after the move, and I hesitate to even say this, but there was some sexual molestation. And I hesitate to say it because on the spectrum of sexual abuse, I feel like it was pretty low.

[00:03:57] But I do say it because that was kind of the line between when my life was great and when my life, when I started to get depressed. You know, after that, I started getting stomach aches, started getting headaches. At one point, they admitted me into the hospital because they didn't understand why I was getting these symptoms. And also, I was sleeping a lot.

[00:04:17] And the doctor in the hospital, they did a CAT scan. And he ended up saying that, telling my mom that I was depressed. That was that. I mean, she didn't really do anything. I think this was in the mid or no, this was in the early nineties. She didn't do anything with that information. I don't think.

[00:04:33] She was also pretty overwhelmed with her life. My dad went to the Gulf War and we were just kind of alone, me, my sister, her. So she was overwhelmed. Her father had Alzheimer's at the same time. She was taking care of her parents, taking care of us.

[00:04:48] I continued to be on and off depressed between the ages of 10 and 14. And then when I turned 14, I kind of just went off the rails, took a lot of risks, risks such as hitchhiking, a lot of running away, cutting. At one point, I took my clothes off in front of a bunch of strangers for no reason. So I ended up getting diagnosed bipolar. That kind of began my journey with hospitalizations and medication. When was your first hospital stay? Do you remember?

[00:05:15] Yeah, I was 14. That was after like immediately after I started really acting out and I was acting pretty crazy. I jumped out of a moving car at one point. I mean, I was putting my life at risk daily and they, my mom took me to a psychiatrist and she recommended that I get admitted. So I got admitted that night. How long were you there for? Do you remember? Like a month the first time?

[00:05:37] It was a locked, like I wasn't allowed to leave obviously, but I'm not sure if that was because I was 14 or that was just the type of place it was. I don't think anybody could leave honestly, but it was a nice facility. It was like a residential type deal. You know, it didn't feel like a hospital. Do you think it was helpful?

[00:05:56] Yeah. I think initially it was helpful. They put me on lithium. I remember that lithium made me like I could read all of a sudden I was sitting in my room. Just, I wanted to read. I was content, you know, when there had been no feeling of content, contentment at all for a long time. Do you think then, let's say it was 14 or so? Yeah.

[00:06:19] This is a tough one the way I'm going to frame it. I'm doing the best I can. Why do you think you were acting so risky? Was that a way to die? What do you think was going on?

[00:06:27] I don't think I wanted to die just because I felt very special, you know, so I had this feeling of being special and that's something I just kind of like kind of became clear to me in the recent years. So, you know, that I really wanted to be special that I had this feeling that I was special. So I don't think it was wanting to die. I don't know how much the sexual abuse played into it and other abuse. Like, you know, I feel like the initial sexual abuse kind of set in motion.

[00:06:57] And a bunch of different situations that collectively could have caused that. I used to ride horses. So I had two different riding instructors be pretty abusive. One was a man, one was a female. And female was just really mean to me, unnecessarily like mean and kind of enjoyed it. So I don't know. I mean, that could have played into it. From 14 until 17, when you had that attempt, did you have more hospital stays?

[00:07:27] Yes, I had many, mainly to do like medication. At some point, the medicine just start started doing more harm than good. I think they started putting me on antipsychotics and other things, you know, and then it just started like doing me a lot of harm. So I was hospitalized, I think about like 17, 18 times between that initial hospitalization and the suicide attempt. And all the while you're in school.

[00:07:55] I went to like special high schools. My freshman year, I went to a normal high school. I went to public high school. Then I went to special high school number one and special high school number two. I don't know why I kept changing. I can't recall that. You said earlier that you thought you were special and clearly. There you go. Everybody saw it. When did you discover poetry?

[00:08:17] When I was young, very young. When I was about five, actually, I started writing poems. I think looking back, it was to impress my mother because she liked poetry. So I used to write her like love poems and things like that. Nice. But when I was 14, around the same time all this started happening, it really started to change. Like my writing just grew up kind of. Like not just about love?

[00:08:43] It just became like reading poetry hit me differently. You know, I would read like E. Cummings or Emily Dickinson and it would just hit different. Like it make me want to write. It would inspire me to the point of like, oh, I love this. I want to write like this. And that hadn't really happened before.

[00:09:00] I actually remember the first time I really felt that. Like I was listening to a song by the Sundays. Do you remember the Sundays? Something about that song, the lyrics. And it just like hit me so, so hard. And I'm like, I want to write stuff that, you know, comforts people the same way this is comforting me right now. And you've been writing ever since? Yeah. That's pretty cool. Trust me, I have to like validate myself all the time because I'm not, I've been trying to publish a book forever and it's just not winning. Any contest.

[00:09:30] So, you know, I get a ton of rejection emails, but I still love writing and still love reading it. So that's enough. I have so much admiration for people that just one, do the work, but also, and this can be a writer, this can be an actor, this can be any, any number of crap, typically more in the arts, I suppose, where they just keep doing the thing despite a lot of people rejecting them. So hard.

[00:09:55] It is. It's like, I have days where I'm like, oh my God, because I'm also a fundraiser and I, maybe I'm disclosing too much, but I'm also a fundraiser. You get a lot of rejection with that too. So sometimes just all the rejection coming from both sides is like, oh my God, I'm going to break. When you say you're a fundraiser, do you write grants? What does that mean? No, I go out and ask people for money. So like, oh, you know, I work for a nonprofit and I will call people up, try and get a meeting with them.

[00:10:24] It's a lot like sales. And then when I'm, you know, in the meeting, I have to kind of like pitch what we're doing and try and gauge their connection with whatever work we're doing and then make an ask. Four out of five times, they'll say no. And I have a lot of admiration for people who start nonprofits, you know, whatever field it's in, because it does. There's a lot of administrative work that goes into it. That'll make you want to kill yourself.

[00:10:51] So at 17, what happens that you, you decide to try? I think, like I said, the medication was doing more harm than good. I had been depressed for a while. I had gone up and down. I had come in and out of depressions during that time between 14 and 17.

[00:11:09] But I had been in a pretty rough depression for about six months. And I think part of the reason that happened is because over the course of the three years that I had been medicated, I gained like my body weight doubled. Mm-hmm.

[00:11:53] Trip on Robitussin. I was in a chemical, you know, I was not doing well, chemically speaking. But I think what happened was I got in a fight with my boyfriend and I ended up not to hit him, but I started kind of like coming at him, cornering him to just try and get my point across, not to hurt him. And he kicked me across the room and his parents were there. So they had been visiting him. He lived in an apartment. They had been visiting him. They saw this.

[00:12:21] We actually lived together. So we both lived in this apartment because I pretty much got kicked out when I was 17. We lived in this apartment. His parents were visiting. He kicked me across the room. I went and grabbed my medicine case. I had a case with all my medicine and just walked into the bathroom. They probably just didn't even see me grab it.

[00:12:41] I just had this burst of energy. Everything just peaked in that moment. Like all the pain, all the suffering. It's like it had been building, building, building, and it just kind of exploded. And I just poured lithium into my hand over and over and over and just kept throwing it back. I think I took about a half a bottle and also some other stuff. What happened?

[00:13:03] So I remember doing that. And then I remember calling my dad, telling him, blackout. Remember being on the street and was on a stretcher and them lifting me into the ambulance, blackout. So then I remember, and I always, I don't know if this is real or what, but I remember them sticking a tube down my throat. And afterwards, my mom told me that, you know, I started having seizures and throwing up and then choked on my vomit.

[00:13:29] So that tracks with them having to push a tube down my throat at some point. My mom also told me I actually died. I don't know if she just said that to scare me from doing it again, but that I died and they resuscitated me. Then I remember waking up in the ICU, hallucinating really badly. Like I just was having these weird hallucinations and that's kind of it. Then I just remember going, I was sent to a psychiatric hospital, stayed there for like a month, another month.

[00:13:58] And during that time, my mother informed me that basically they had run out of money, my parents, spending money on my healthcare, which I believe, I know it's expensive. The insurance didn't cover it. So they went into a lot of debt and she was going to emancipate me. So they emancipated me at 17 and I went to a group home and I don't know. I mean, I know how that sounds like I know. Wait, what do you mean? What does it sound like?

[00:14:22] It sounds like they rejected me. My family rejected me, which I think they did on the surface. You know, I know there are a lot of reasons behind it. I don't know that I'd be comfortable as a mother. I don't think I would ever do that just because of the message it might send. But you know, that's what they did. That's what they did. That was at 17 years old and you go, you go into the group home. Do you finish high school? I had graduated. It wasn't like I had a normal workload. You know, it was very like simple stuff.

[00:14:52] But I was able to graduate at 17. And that was your only attempt? I think before that there had been a couple minor ones. And here we are about 20, what is it? 28 years later. What's interesting to me is that we're talking, which means you probably were looking for something somewhere, probably on a podcast platform of some kind. Well, I like to listen to psychology podcasts and I listen to them like all day when I'm working

[00:15:20] podcasts in general. But I do especially like like the different psychology ones. And this just kind of popped up as podcasts you might like. Wow. I didn't even know that ever happened, really. Then I saw like it was you interviewing suicide attempt survivors. And I really kind of latched on to that. Well, I'm glad you found it and I'm glad you liked it enough to reach out. And here we are. Yeah. Here's a couple of things I know. Between 17 and 45, you go to college and you major in poetry?

[00:15:49] Yeah, I studied. I went to San Francisco State first. I studied creative writing. That was my major. Then I went to Sarah Lawrence and got an MFA in poetry. I mean, I had a great experience. I'm still paying off my debt, but I pretend it's not there. How many people out there can relate to what Elle just said? I know. I'm like, uh, what? You know, nevermind. That's a 20 year from now problem.

[00:16:13] And so your 20s and 30s and into your 40s. I know you have a couple of kids in that time, I think. Yeah. No, I had my kids in my 30s. From when you got out of the hospital, you go to the two colleges or you went to undergrad and then grad and you're living life. Does it continue to be, I know you're older at that point, obviously. You got to have some stability or mental, what's the word? Acuity to finish undergrad and go to a school like Sarah Lawrence and study. And you can't be in bed all day, obviously. You can't be.

[00:16:44] Yeah. Does life level out a little bit? I would say no, it did not. I continued to have mental health issues and go through depressions. I had very productive periods that kind of, you know, pushed me forward. I think I learned at a very young age to put one foot in front of the other, even when I was suffering a lot. You know, I think going to the group home kind of shocked me, but it taught me that like, I just got to keep

[00:17:12] the only way through this is to keep going. And that has served me throughout my life that, that knowledge. I mean, I have, I definitely have gone up and down and I've had moments where I thought about suicide in a, in a way that a normal person would not, you know, if I thought about writing a note once and that was bringing me a lot of comfort, just thinking about it. But I, yeah, I still struggled. I did a lot of drugs when I was like in my twenties and you know,

[00:17:39] that, that kind of masked a lot of my mental health issues, I would say. And then I had external factors kind of thrown in there. I feel like people who go up, go through traumatic experiences, unfortunately, I'm afraid that this is the truth. They just keep going through traumatic experiences. Just, it's never just one, you know, I feel like the people who get the trauma are the people who've already gotten it. I don't think either of us are, well, I know I can speak for me that I'm

[00:18:06] certainly not quote qualified to speculate on, well, I can do whatever the fuck I want, but why do you think that is, at least from your own experience, why the people that go through trauma continue to get the trauma? I don't know. I really don't know. I, you know, my son was born with the serious airway condition that brought back a lot of triggers because he was hospitalized a lot. I, I struggle to have faith. I really do. Um, but I want to believe there's a higher power. And

[00:18:31] I was very, very angry at the time that I had to, after everything I had gone through, I had to go through that with my son. I had to see him suffer. So that's kind of where I'm caught. I mean, that's been my experience. I also, I'm a single mother, you know, not that that's traumatic, but I've made some really poor choices and relationships and in other ways, I continued to take risks. I don't know how I haven't gotten killed at this point.

[00:18:59] Oh, so I was for some reason expecting you to say lesson learned, Sean, don't, don't make any assumptions that you said. I don't know how I haven't tried again, but you're saying killed. What do you mean killed? Well, I have been told that I have a death wish, so I don't know if that's like a time released kind of suicide attempt, but like driving and multiple people have told me I have a death wish. I used to skydive for a while, not just like tandem, but like I was trying to get licensed.

[00:19:29] I had like 20 jumps. I was jumping on my own. I fell through a tree. So people thought I had a death wish then. And then just horseback riding. Um, I love to jump horses. So the higher, the better. I've been told I have a death wish there. And I think my worst thing is that I drive like a maniac. I am not a good driver and yet I will be online shopping while I'm driving. You know, this is more when I'm feeling really good shopping while I'm driving on 95, I'll be doing

[00:19:59] really stupid shit. And then it's like the worst thing I can imagine. One of the worst things I can imagine is killing someone. Right. Um, I don't like myself. That's fine. Relatively speaking, but like to kill someone else in a car accident would be horrible. When you got that diagnosis of bipolar, do you think that was accurate? Uh, sometimes, sometimes I don't. Over the time of, did you get other diagnoses that you think might be accurate?

[00:20:23] Yeah. So I've been diagnosed PTSD. I think that's very true. Not just with what I went through as a kid, but, uh, what I went through with my son, seeing him almost die a couple of times, saving his life myself. Um, that was very traumatic because, you know, I love the shit out of my kids. Like I can't imagine anything happening to them, let alone in front of me, something that I may have been able

[00:20:47] to prevent. So, you know, I definitely agree with the PTSD diagnosis, ADHD. I agree with that, but it could also be, you know, if I am bipolar, it could also be bipolar. It could also fold into that. Um, cause I definitely have like some severe symptoms of ADHD. I'm, I forget everything. I lose everything. I've lost two jobs because of stupid mistakes. Um, that could have been prevented. I miss

[00:21:14] meetings. Um, so I, you know, I definitely have some severe ADHD symptoms, but that could also be like, from what I know, it could also be like cognitive decline from bipolar. Cause you can have that, like it can erode your cognition after a while. So, you know, I don't know what it is. There's one more, the, um, one doctor and I've, so I've gotten diagnosed bipolar about six by about six different

[00:21:39] doctors, unfortunately. And one of them said that I also had borderline tendencies and that I, in relationships that definitely shows up. I can see that. I think maybe it doesn't show up in other relationships. Um, like it doesn't show up with my kids, doesn't show up with my mother, doesn't show up at work, but in romantic relationships, it definitely does. Everything changes with those, don't they? Yeah. Yeah. I'll bets are off with that shit. Are you surprised that you're, you made it to

[00:22:09] 45? No. Okay. Cause I didn't want to die. It was purely an impulse thing. I asked that because of the, not only the suit, the attempt, but just as much the death wish stuff you shared. No, I think I've always just kind of, I don't know how to say this right, but for a long time, I felt pretty immortal. Like I just, I don't, and you know, that was between the ages of like 19 and like 30. Um, I felt pretty immortal. Like nothing I did was going to get me killed.

[00:22:38] I still feel like I have my health. I don't feel like I'm going to die tomorrow. I actually really love life, which is strange that I tried to take, you know, kill myself or whatever I did there. But there's a lot about life I actually love. So, and that keeps me going even, even through all the rejection and through all the hard times. Like I think I have a lot of hope, you know, good or for bad. I have hope and I always have. And one more question about the day you tried to end your life.

[00:23:06] You go into the bathroom, you take the pills. I know it gets very blurry. You black out. I know you called your dad, but there were people in the house. Did they ever say anything? The boyfriend, the parents? Nope. It was weird that the parents didn't say anything when he kicked me across the room. So I'm not super surprised. They didn't have much to say about me trying to off myself. And we broke up like, well, I was in the hospital afterwards. We ended up breaking up. So I don't, I never had a

[00:23:32] chance to really talk to him about it. Yeah. I don't even know why that question popped into my head, but I was just imagining what we said, like slowing down these moments, right? And sort of what's happening. Yeah. A lot of things only recently, like questions have come up with that. Why did my mother leave me with a bunch of, I mean, why did anyone leave me with a bunch of medicine? Why would anyone do that? I had actually tried to, I had pretend like done these little mini overdoses,

[00:23:59] like practice runs prior to that. So they knew that I had it in me to do something dumb. And the other thing was I called my dad, but he wasn't at the hospital. I didn't see him once in the ICU. My mom was there. My mom was with me throughout the whole thing, but I'm like, where were, you know, where was dad? Like, what is up with that? I love my dad. I just think he has some issues and I can see him not going. It would have been weird if he actually was on top of it and went.

[00:24:26] When you were listening to this podcast that you, you came across and you heard some of the conversations, you know, listening is one thing, but wanting to talk about it and wanting to talk about it in a way where a lot of people will hear it. Why do you want other people to hear this? Part of me just wanted to get it out. There's not often an ear to listen to this story. You know, I've talked to therapists and, but it's different talking to someone who's not being paid.

[00:24:53] Listen to me. You can say that again, Al. I've also talked like my boyfriend, I can tell he gets uncomfortable, which is fine. Like people do. Honestly, the only people I've ever told were, were people I was in a romantic relationship with for whatever reason, again, because all bets are off there. Outside of that, it's mostly been kind of on the, on the DL, as they say, kind of quiet. Yeah. And nobody would suspect it. I don't think I'm medicated. I've been sick. I'm successful.

[00:25:21] I'm actually successful. To everyone's surprise. My mom told me she thought I'd be dead. You know, she definitely thought I would be dead by this age. I don't know what happened. Honestly, something, you know, just kind of lifted me out of that. I still have bad days and it's like, it's never just like, Oh, I get depressed. I get depressed and I immediately think, God, if this is life, it's not worth it. You know, like it's never, I think it's because I think I'll stay depressed.

[00:25:49] Every time I get depressed, I'm like, Oh, this is going to last another six months. Yeah. I was going to ask, you know, and this could be going back years, but however you want to answer it, like how often do you ideate? So I can only remember two times in the past five years. So when you're driving on the road and you're saying you're like sometimes shopping, like that's not you wanting to die. That's just. No, that's me being high. You know, I don't know if I'm bipolar, but I definitely have periods where I just feel like

[00:26:17] life is fucking great. Like, I'm, you know, like nothing can happen. I know this is dangerous, but nothing's going to happen to me. You know, that kind of thing. It's not like I want to die even riding horses. I'm like, I don't want to die. I just think it's really fun to do this dangerous thing. Skydiving, same thing. I didn't think I wanted to die. Although looking back, I think I was trying to like simulate suicide in a way, like part of me wanted to jump off something

[00:26:44] and just, you know, free fall. Never heard of a, at least no, no one on this podcast has ever told me they attempted by not opening their parachute or something. Yeah. Never heard that. Yeah, no, I did. I always planned on opening it, but there's something just suicidal about going to the ledge of a plane and jumping off. Does your boyfriend or anybody else know that we're talking? I have two friends, two of my oldest friends who know. What did they say when you told them they were doing this?

[00:27:13] Well, I just told them recently, the past few days, my one friend who I love very much, I love them both, but she and I are even closer than my other friend and I. She just hearted it. I texted her. I'm like, by the way, I'm going to get this suicide podcast. And she's like, heart. She has very severe OCD. You know, she gets it. Like I no further explanation needed for her. She was

[00:27:38] just like, okay, great. Love that. My other friend kind of pretended I didn't say anything. And I think it's because he just loves me and doesn't like to think of that. Yeah. You say they're both old friends? Yeah. At any point, did they find out that you once tried at 17 years old? Do they know that? Or you told them about your attempt? Yeah, I did. My mom kind of pretends it didn't happen. She doesn't like to talk about it. Doesn't,

[00:28:06] you know, and I understand that, but you know, I've had questions and she was the closest thing. She was the only witness in a lot of ways to, for whatever she did, she was, she stuck by me. She was always with me. So she has the answer to a lot of my questions, I feel like, but she doesn't really want to talk about things. If you are ideating, which I know doesn't happen a lot, or even if you're not, you want to talk about things and the word suicide comes up. How many people do you have in your life where they can have that conversation with you and you can feel

[00:28:35] okay by the end? Not necessarily better, but that, that, that they don't freak out, that they don't start, you know, just have a conversation. Yeah. Three. I would say my sister, the friend who parted it and my, my other friend who lives in Chicago. Um, they're the ones who I would feel like, okay, they'll actually have this conversation with me, you know, without rushing it, just let it kind of expand and talk through it.

[00:29:00] My boyfriend would get really uncomfortable and we'll probably for whatever reason, get defensive. Like I was saying to him, like accusing him or something. I do have people. If you've heard recent episodes and actually this goes back probably a while now, you know, that I ask a question about a pink and purple pill. That is a pill that if I, uh, were to give to L and she ingested it, she would go to sleep peacefully and die peacefully.

[00:29:26] And we can add that nobody knows it's a suicide. It's just a woman in her mid forties in a mid Atlantic state passed away. What would you do with that pill? I have thought about this and I would throw it in the nearest body of water. It would dissolve away. Cause I'm still, I'm still very impulsive. Unfortunately, that never left sometimes more so than others. And I can, I can see a situation where I would take it.

[00:29:53] So you're, you're throwing it away in part, perhaps cause you don't want to die, but also cause you're afraid that you might get impulsive one day and reach for it. Yeah. That's some good awareness. Yeah, no, I know. I know that about myself. Actually, you had mentioned if there were any other attempts, there was one time I got really upset again and I ended up taking like a handful of pills and then I threw it up right away. You know, again, it was just like,

[00:30:19] I need something to change right now. I need this to end right now. Um, not that I want to die, but this needs to change. And this is like one way to make a change. How old, how long ago was that? It was before I had my kids, but only like a year before. How are your kids? They're great. I mean, they both have some mental health issues. I think my daughter's very ADHD. My son, he's more like, you know, I can see he, I feel like him and I are more

[00:30:48] alike. So I worry about him. They've actually both brought up suicide to me, which sent me spiraling. That was actually the most recent time I ideated was when they, when my daughter brought it up to me, she brought it up. She said one night, cause she's getting very excluded. You know, the girls in her class are a bunch of bitches. Hopefully they hear this. Just kidding. They are excluding her, not being very nice to her. And she's still, she's resilient.

[00:31:16] She stays, she's got a really good mood. You know, her baseline is pretty elated. She gets excited about things, but she also, you know, of course it wears on her. So one night she woke me up and she said, I'm thinking about, you know, I'm having suicidal thoughts and I'm like, it really bothered, you know, obviously it bothered me. I went crazy. I started, you know, just spiraling and having like rolling panic attacks, constant panic attacks and just

[00:31:44] intrusive thoughts feeling like, what if I walk in and I see her or something happening? And then just jumping down rabbit holes, like reading Reddit or subreddits about suicide attempts and things like that. Just, you know, I just can't handle that emotionally, but I want to be there for her. So I, I'm working on that cause I definitely want her to continue to open up to me if she ever has those thoughts. But during one of those panic attacks, I thought I'm like,

[00:32:13] you know, cause they were just hitting me constantly panic attack after panic attack, after panic attack. I'm like, anything is better than this. You know, that's kind of the way I ideate as I get to that. Anything is better than this point. Glad you didn't have the pink and purple pill. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's interesting. I can't have conversations with teenagers. I don't know the law or the ethical moral place where that is, but I've had people reach out that are, you know,

[00:32:39] teenagers and I'm like, I don't really know. And it's really tricky. Cause I'm like, I think I, I think I feel okay with it with a parent's consent, but of course some of them don't talk to their parents about it. Oof. I don't know what to do. So that's been an ongoing question I have for myself or concern, you know? Yeah. I mean, like you said, they can go, if they have a parent like you, maybe they can talk about it or they have a really cool friend or therapist. But like you said, you're paying for that and it's not quite the same and you know,

[00:33:06] like where do they go? I think speaking with you gives it, gives a suicide attempt or suicidal thoughts, the weight and the space that they need. You know, I don't think that there's a platform for that, that really honors, you know, the depth and the weight of what we're talking about. So I think it would be helpful for teenagers if they had that, honestly, cause I know a lot of them struggle and that just kills me. When I think of the kids,

[00:33:33] I mean, because I was one myself and I was bullied myself, but just feeling like their life is over. And when you're a teenager, it's like, you don't have any understanding that things can change. Things can change dramatically and it can happen very quickly. You feel like whatever situation you're in is going to last forever. So I just feel for kids. And I feel for my daughter. Like, I think, I don't think she's chronically suicidal. I think it was like a moment. And I also know she

[00:34:03] watches YouTube and there is a lot of talk of like teen suicides on there, which is good. I think, you know, bringing that awareness and making it less taboo is good, but it can be scary for parents when they, you know, say that. I did bring it up to her therapist and her doc. She has a psychiatrist. She has a therapist. All of them know I'm constantly in contact with them about everything. Cause I just

[00:34:28] do not want my daughter ever in danger. My son hasn't, he also actually brought up suicide. He, he's been diagnosed with OCD and he has intrusive thoughts and he's had like suicide be a theme in his intrusive thoughts before. So he'll like, anything will happen that triggers it. He'll be like, suicide popped up, suicide popped up. You know, it's just like something. And I understand that cause I have intrusive thoughts where it's just, you don't want to think it, you don't want to do it,

[00:34:56] but there it is again and again and again. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's another situation where I'm like, why me? Why do I have to deal with this after my son being sick after my own issues? Now I got to deal with them having mental health issues. Jesus Christ. It does not end. No, I probably never will. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe it will. Maybe it will. Things do change. Yeah, they do. Do you, do you like being a mom? I love it. Yeah. I love being a mom. I didn't think,

[00:35:25] I remember, you know, my friend Teresa, actually she's older than me and she had kids. And I remember feeling like, how can that be enough to be a mom? Like, how can that be someone's main identity and then be okay with it? And it's not my main identity. I have other identity, you know, other things factoring into my identity, but it's a big part of it. And, you know, I just really love my kids. You know, that fills your life up when you have that. I understand why

[00:35:52] people wouldn't want them, you know, definitely. My sister doesn't have kids and you have a lot more freedom and a lot more money. But if you do have them, if you, if you want them and you have them, I think they can be really fulfilling. That's actually one of the things I do when I'm depressed is I just focus on my kids and that kind of pulls me through. Yeah. I was going to ask what helps. That's obviously one of them. Yeah. I think talking when I'm depressed, I like go up to my son's room and talk to him about

[00:36:20] whatever he wants to talk about. And I'm moving slow enough when I'm depressed that I can do that because I get into other States where I'm hyper and I'm just moving too fast to like sit and have a conversation with him, but he loves to talk. So like I, if I sit down and talk, just seeing how happy he is by the fact that I'm sitting there talking to him kind of lifts me up. Yeah. I also just have a shit ton of vices. Like I've ate, I drink Red Bulls, which is probably

[00:36:46] bad. Um, I drink coffee. I smoke weed sometimes. Yeah. I do a lot of, I have a lot of vices. I listen to podcasts. That's like advice for me. Not that you're asking, but all the vices I've heard, the ones you just listed are pretty, um, not so damaging or I mean, harmful. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Well, I mean, you're not doing heroin or cocaine all the time. You're not, uh, Oh no,

[00:37:12] actually the one vice you said that is the definitely the only one is the, is the driving on 95 and fucking shopping. Oh yeah. Shopping's a problem. I'm in debt. Whether it's specifically related to suicide or all the things that kind of swirl around that. Are there any myths or misconceptions you would like to dispel? Just like everyone else. I feel like you have to be pretty arrogant to say that somebody's weak or

[00:37:39] selfish to commit suicide. Cause I think that if you've ever experienced any depression, hopefully you have enough empathy to like times that depression by 10. And then you can kind of imagine where you'd be the point you'd be at if you were going to try and kill yourself. Sorry. My kids are screaming upstairs. I love, I love it. I love the extra ambient stuff. I do. Yeah. I think that I do think that, you know, you're at a desperate state. I know I was,

[00:38:07] I was feeling like I had no power and that was the only thing I could do to really change anything. Saying someone's weak or selfish when they're really at a point of like breaking is wrong. Yeah. Even like bullyish. Yeah, it is. Now, no pressure here. You are a poet. I know you have a lot of poems. I'm sure some of them have titles. Do you have an idea of what your memoir title might be? Oh, wow. I've never thought about that. That is why you're here.

[00:38:36] Yeah. I thought you were going to come up with that. I know. I know. I've got a few. I've got a few. There were none, but none that like immediately pow. Can we come up with something together or even maybe a couple of ideas? I could also ask the audience. I've never done that. The listeners. I'd be interested in that. I mean, I don't know. I'm thinking of the titles of some poems I have. The one poem I wrote that I feel like aligns most directly with my experience as a youth and

[00:39:05] just with mental health issues is called Apocalypse, but I don't think that's a good title. Well, it might depend on the subtitle. It'd be good. And then we get the subtitle in there and then it sort of makes it clear enough. Yeah. Apocalypse. And it's just about like, what if I stopped taking medicine? I feel like there would be an apocalypse in my brain. Who the fuck knows what would happen? Because I feel like medicine has held me up and I'm a lifer with it.

[00:39:32] But the time I did go off it when I was pregnant with my daughter and it was really rough. I went through different phases from really depressed to kind of depressed to kind of high and just neurotic and started to have really bad intrusive thoughts. So I don't think it's a wise idea for me to go off, but I do wonder what would happen sometimes. Are you on medicine? I am only on one sleeping medication. Good for you.

[00:40:00] Well, I don't know. I think I would benefit a lot from the right medication. Yeah. And it's hard to get there for sure. It's hard to get there. So it's not as if I'm against it. Sometimes I'm not okay with the side effects. That's gotten better over the years. When this comes out and I don't have an exact date, within a couple of months for sure, probably before them. Do you think you'll hear it? Do you think you'll listen to it? I think I will. I think, yeah, the sound of my own voice makes me uncomfortable.

[00:40:28] Right. But I think I'll probably get to a point maybe when I'm drunk or something where I'm like, you know what? I feel good about myself. Let me listen to this podcast where I talk about suicide. Yeah. And then I'll feel less good. Maybe, maybe. Is it interesting though that there'll be people who hear you? It is interesting. Like in different country, like just wherever, just like you found other people, right?

[00:40:52] Yeah, it is. It is interesting. And I hope that, you know, especially, yeah, I noticed there's a lot of really young people on this podcast. So you interview a lot of young people and I can see why, like they're willing to come forward with their stories and it's fresh. A lot of it's really fresh for them. Sometimes, sometimes. It urges still. I feel for them. I feel, I have a lot of love for them. I feel for them. I know what it's like to be desperate for things to change. And I hope that, I do hope that,

[00:41:22] you know, I can help somebody, you know, show them that it can, things can change. Yeah. That's true. It's crazy. Like how quickly it happens sometimes or how gradually, sometimes it's gradually than suddenly is, I don't know who said that, but. Well, it was, it kind of connects to my next and kind of like last thing I wanted to ask you. And then of course you can add whatever else you want. I want you to imagine there's a parallel universe. There's a young lady just like you when you were

[00:41:50] 17 and she hears this, she's hearing this and she hears you now these years later, you know, but now we're in a parallel universe and we're playing with time and space and all that stuff. Podcast has never been about offering, uh, you know, advice. However, if there's someone out there like that, just like you, is there anything you want to say to them? First of all, you can't do this on your own. You need support from professionals likely,

[00:42:16] you know, I'm hopeful that things aren't the way they were in the nineties where it's so extreme. You know, when you have a mental health issue, they go so extreme so quick, but you know, like you said, I think medicine can benefit people a lot and can really lift you. I mean, it's a chemical, if it's a chemical imbalance, it can lift you out of that. So I think it's worth seeking that out. But mainly I would just tell them that again, like things, things can change.

[00:42:43] You don't really have the full picture right now. You know, this might just be a part of a much bigger picture that is your life. You know, a lot of good things can happen on the other side of this. And I would just tell them, you know, I, I love them. I love anyone who's in that situation. You know, having been there myself, I just have a lot of love for anybody who's hurting like that. What else would you like to share out? No, just thank you. Thank you for having me. And thank you for doing this. Like I said,

[00:43:13] thank you for giving, you know, for honoring like the weight of this subject. I think it's really important that that's done. You know, I hope at some point you can have kids on here because I do think it would be good for them or teenagers, you know? I agree. No, and I appreciate it. Thank you for those kind words. And I thank you for trusting me and joining me talking. What is the, what is the rest? So it's early afternoon here on a,

[00:43:38] what is at least in North Carolina, kind of gray Saturday. What is, what's the rest of your, your day like? Uh, what time is it? It's one 12. So I'm going to go upstairs. I got to walk my dog. Then I'm meeting my boyfriend and just bringing him back to my house, hanging out with my kids all day. I have to take down Christmas decorations. So pretty bland. May drink tonight, may not drink tonight, may smoke weed, may not smoke weed. That is the question always.

[00:44:05] That is the question. Not that that's a memoir title, but I do kind of like the flow of it. I may drink, not drink. I may smoke weed. I may not smoke weed. Yeah. Oh, thank you again. You're very, very welcome. Enjoy your day. All right. Talk to you later. Bye. As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support. Special thanks to Elle in Virginia. Thanks, Elle. If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:44:33] Our email is hello at suicidenoted.com. It's that simple. Check the show notes to learn more about the Suicide Noted podcast, including our membership, the Noted Network, and all kinds of other cool things. And remember, we've got a listeners meeting scheduled. We may make more. Check it out in the show notes. I want you there.

[00:44:55] And that is all for episode number 250. 250. Damn. Stay strong. Do the best you can. I will talk to you soon.