Kelly in North Carolina

[00:00:00] It's been like I'm trying to rebuild, and rebuilding is harder than constructing, which a friend said to me last week, and they are completely right. It's so much harder. I lost so much.

[00:00:33] Hey there, my name is Sean, and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives, and we almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough, and when we do talk about it, when we do engage talking, listening, we're not very good at it. So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations, and hopefully better conversations. Keep having conversations with attempt survivors in large part to help more people

[00:01:02] in more places hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone. Now, if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, I would love to talk with you. Please reach out. Our email is hello at suicidenoted.com. You can check the show notes to learn more about this podcast, including our membership and our podcast training, among other things. Shout out to Carrie, who won our logo contest. We will be using her logo or a version of it. So thanks, Carrie. You'll see her

[00:01:30] logo there right now. There might be a few tweaks coming, but that is essentially the logo, and I like it. Thanks, Carrie. And I also want to thank several people for helping me and supporting me while I was trying to write a grant. One thing I learned. There's a few things in this world I think I'm pretty good at. That ain't one of them. So thank you to Elizabeth, Sophia, Deanna, and Alyssa. I

[00:01:56] appreciate you all. Finally, we are talking about suicide on this podcast, and my guests and I do not hold back. So please take that into account before you listen or as you listen. But I do hope you listen, because there's so much to learn. Today, I'm talking with Kelly. Kelly lives in North Carolina, and she is a suicide attempt survivor. Hey, Kelly. So I want our listeners to know that we actually met

[00:02:23] a week or two ago for an audition for you to tell a personal story at an event next month. And the reason I'm bringing that up, I think it's interesting how people meet, but also that story very much overlaps with what we're talking about here today, which is the S word. But we actually say suicide because why not? Given that you're here now and we met and you're going to be doing

[00:02:48] that story then, like you are at a place in your life where you are, I don't know if the word's comfortable, but okay with talking about it. Absolutely. How many suicide attempts do you have in your life? Two. When was the first one? I was 17 and in high school. When was the second one? It was September of 2023. So 35 plus years between attempts. Yes. We got a lot to cover today, Kelly.

[00:03:18] We do. So you will be at the storytelling event next month. You're talking with me and this episode will be out, I don't know, probably after that a little bit. And yeah, you're helping. So I appreciate that. Are you from North Carolina? I am from North Carolina originally, a small town west of Charlotte. So when you had your first attempt at 17, that's where you were living? Yes. Okay. And when you had your second attempt about a year and a half ago, you were in Raleigh?

[00:03:46] Yes. And for people who are wondering, they're probably not, by the way, I'm about 20 minutes from Raleigh in Chapel Hill. So that's that. Okay. Which has the best basketball team. Very good team. Not this year, but typically Duke is better. They're in Durham, which is also nearby if anyone's a basketball fan. All right. NC State had a great year last year too. Anyway, we're not here to talk about basketball. This isn't the Basketball Noted Podcast. When did you first start talking about suicide, meaning your own, your attempt? Whether,

[00:04:15] back in the day or is that more recent? More recent. I talked a little bit back in the day about it, where some people knew what had happened and most did not. My parents did not. So back in the day when you were a teenager, who did know? I left a note for my two best friends at the time. Okay. Well, we're going to circle back to that. In September, 2023, you tried. Obviously, a lot of people are going to know about it. Not that we have millions of listeners, but whoever listens. But are there other people in your, let's say your immediate circle?

[00:04:45] People who know about that attempt? Yes. Most people do. They know because you told them? They saw something on social media? Some people know because I told them. A lot of people who used to be in my life took it upon themselves to tell whoever they wanted to. Uh-oh. And took that decision out of my hands. And this is where social media gets weird too, I'm sure. Yes. It really does. So you're west of Charlotte. You're 17. This is the 80s, if people want a time reference, I believe.

[00:05:14] What's going on? This is a tough question. It's kind of big and broad. You know, what's going on with you growing up into your teenage years where at 17 you were tapped? What was going on at that time is that I felt like I was never going to measure up and never going to be good enough. I came from a very academic family who I am grateful for, but they also have this creative daughter. College professors didn't quite know what to do with that.

[00:05:42] My brother was beta club, honor society, without ever cracking a book. Free ride to Emory. I would get teachers in high school who would say, oh, you're her daughter. You're his sister. Wow. The apple really fell far from the tree. So it was feeling like I could never measure up. And I just remember getting more and more and more depressed. Yep. I let my parents know. Started with a psychiatrist and a therapist.

[00:06:07] The psychiatrist decided the best way to deal with me was just to throw all the 80s stuff at me. Old school antidepressants. Old school. Okay. Okay. Yes. I was on Pamela. Okay. I don't know what that is. Like it would make you sleepy. Like even just taking one. Yeah. I was like, well, this is what I have and this is how I can do it. So did you, did you stockpile those meds? Is that how you did it? I wasn't taking them as much as I should because they made me feel so groggy. Um, and when I tried to express that to both my parents and my psychiatrist at the time,

[00:06:37] I was told, well, you need to take them. It wasn't until I finally said to my mom, look, and this was after the attempt, look, I can't take this. We have got to find me a new psychiatrist if this is something I need to be on. And he supplemented with something else and started tapering me down, which was absolutely the best thing. Get me off that crap. So your intuition or for more than just intuition was correct. Yes. Now the attempt itself, why do you remember? I know we're going back some years, right?

[00:07:05] You presumably didn't wake up one day and it was sort of, let's call it impulsive. I imagine you were thinking about it. Correct. Ideating. Is that accurate? Mm-hmm. Do you know about how long you were ideating for? Was it a week? A few months, maybe. Do you have any idea what sparked the ideating? I know you were, like you said, you were feeling like you were never going to be enough, never going to measure up, but what shifts? I don't know that answer. This far out, and I might could have told you right after it. Mm-hmm.

[00:07:34] I don't know the answer anymore. By the way, anyone who's listening, might could is a thing people say in the South here in the United States sometimes. It's not as common up North, but we have weird stuff too. I'm from the North. Another question that may be very hard to know or remembers, do you know why that particular day? I remember I started crying and I couldn't stop on that particular day. At home? At home. Pretty Carolina blue bedroom with my Carolina blue carpet and my white trim, and I just cried

[00:08:03] and cried and cried, and something in me snapped, and I was like, I'm done. I cannot do this anymore. I'm never going to be what anyone wants. So you overdosed on those pills that you mentioned? The whole bottle, yes. The whole bottle at night? Yes. What happens next? I slept for about three days, but I was getting up to get water, get crackers, use the restroom, and I was always so sleepy anyway.

[00:08:30] I don't think my parents ever knew. Oh, I see. I see. They thought Kelly's just struggling. Exactly. It's not the first time we've seen her and she's on the meds and she's quote unquote creative. Creative, is that a pejorative, the way you were using it, the creative daughter, or is that, what was that? I mean, it's accurate. She's the creative one. She's the creative one. She's the creative one. But for some people would hear that that's a wonderful thing to hear. It wasn't at the time. Right. It is now. I love it now. Right. Because yes, I am.

[00:09:00] But back then it was being used as more like she's creative, but not the other things, like her brother. She's not smart. Okay. I didn't realize at the time that there's a difference in book smart and street smart. Sure. And if I'm out dancing in the rain, it's because I want to be out dancing in the rain, not because I don't know enough to come in from the rain. Right. Well, I don't know if you've heard a lot of the episodes because we just met and you just discovered the podcast because we were talking about it and it came up.

[00:09:27] One of the things that's not on the list that I've been talking about on these episodes for probably a year, maybe two years is memoir titles. I like offering what I think good possibilities for people's memoir titles are. And I'm not that they're ever going to write the book. I'm certainly not. But you just said something that immediately I'm like, oh, possible memoir title for Kelly. And that is dancing in the rain. Oh. Now you don't need to do anything with that. Kelly's writing it down because she knows I have a gift. Okay. Exactly.

[00:09:57] I'm good at this. Dancing in the rain and it might need a subtitle and we are off to the races. Okay. I love it. Off to the rainy races. You're mostly sleeping for three days. So you don't go to a hospital. No. Nobody knows? Nobody knew. Now you did say earlier that you wrote a note for a couple of your friends. Yes. Do you remember if you wrote that note like that the day of? I wrote it the day of and their names that they're still in my life. Oh, wow. Their names are Brian and Hammy. Wow.

[00:10:25] And all it said was, I'm sorry. I love y'all. Oh, y'all is another Southern thing if you're listening from another country or state. Meaning you all, you guys. Yeah, yous. Everyone. So a simple, very short note. Do you still have that note? No. No damage from the pills? Not at all. Basically slept it off? I slept it off. Yes. Did you have an intent to die? Yes, I did. So, you know, sometimes people talk, and this is a semantical thing, but I ask, I wanted the pain to end more than really wanting to die.

[00:10:55] You want it out? I want it out. A friend of mine said, you remind me a lot of Marilyn Monroe. She didn't want to die. She just wanted the pain to stop. And this is one of the people who was listed in that note who said that. Well, was it more the pain wanting to end or the wanting to die or both or somewhere? It was both. It was very much. Yeah, I think those two can absolutely coexist. Marilyn Monroe was pretty creative, too, I think. She was awesome. There you go. The people in the note, did they get the note?

[00:11:24] No, they didn't. I told them about it after the fact when I told them what had happened. How long after did you tell them? Do you remember? Maybe a couple of weeks. What compelled you to share that with them? One of them said to me that they were in the same boat. Okay. And I said, here's what happened to me a few weeks ago. Was that the guy or the girl? The guy. What did he do? Do you remember when you said that to him? Said, Kelly, you're supposed to call me. If it's ever that bad, you need to call me. But he was really doing bad. Yes, he was doing bad.

[00:11:53] And they're still in your life, you said, in some capacity. They are. It's great. And people find that so odd that I am still very close to two people from high school. Let me take a guess here. Always tell me if I'm wrong. And I'm often wrong. Between 17 years old and September 2023. Decades. I'm going to guess that your life was challenging. Yes. Very challenging. I'm going to guess that there were a lot of ups and a lot of downs. Yes. Absolutely.

[00:12:19] Were you, during that time, were there periods of time where you were ideating and really thinking about trying again? Not really until about a year before I attempted again. Now, I was depressed. I pretty much stayed in therapy for a very, very long time. And I was with a therapist that I really liked and he retired. Okay. And I just drug my heels about finding someone else, which sent me into a tailspin. That was in like September 2022, fall of 2022. Yes.

[00:12:49] Those up and down years from when you first attempted to when things got really hard a couple of years ago. What's your life like? The bullet version of your life, if that makes sense. Spent a lot of doing creative things, a lot of performing, a lot of singing, which I love to do. Wonderful times with friends. I had a job that I loved for seven years. A new executive director eliminated the position and had someone else in there and pretty much

[00:13:16] doing the same thing with a different title within a week. I had thrown everything into that job. It gutted me. And someone has said, you never got over losing that job. So, you know, there's no real perfect. Here's where it all got really bad because, you know, life is life and it's not so clear. And in 2022, there was the therapist. In 2019, there was the job. I'm sure if we explored more, there was other stuff going on that, you know, it all sort of connects.

[00:13:45] Was there ever a period of time, you know, from 20s, 30s, 40s, where you had an extended things were good for a while? I can remember having a couple of really good years. Yeah. 2015, 2016, working a lot, but still, you know, having the funds to travel, being able to perform, having a lot of really amazing people in my life. And I'm always going to be grateful for that, that I did have just those couple of years that were fantastic.

[00:14:12] Now, they were hard on chosen family because of everything that happened, especially in 2016. Hold up. Now we're going back to 2016. Okay. Hang on. All right. All right. My long term's great, but I can't tell you how to head for lunch. Oh, no. I know. I know. Some people just cannot do the certain components of memory. I got it. Kids? No. No kids. Pets? Yes. Okay. Dog? Cat? Which one? Cats. Oh, okay. We got a cat person.

[00:14:42] We got a cat person. I love dogs too. I just always lived in an apartment. What kind of work were you involved in? I fell into nonprofit in my 20s and just kind of stayed there. I was with a company that closed, but they help everyone find other jobs. They put me with a temp agency that handled nonprofits, and I found a knack for it. The grant writing's creative. Planning events is creative. So it hits all those buttons for me. When I started with a temp agency, my dad had Alzheimer's, and he was in the process of being diagnosed.

[00:15:12] So I was able to go back and forth and was still like plenty of money to do things with, like to travel, to go back and forth to my parents in Western North Carolina, to get him to his stockist appointments, to ask the questions that I spent a lot of time in research on finding out what do I need to ask. The other thing I'm curious about is during this time is how's your physical health? You know, it's like everyone else. You have some stuff. Yeah. You don't have some stuff.

[00:15:38] I had an MS diagnosis, which makes it challenging, but it's also an invisible disability. When did you get the diagnosis? 2017. 2017. And in that time, going back to, again, a few decades of living life in North Carolina, you said you were mostly seeing a therapist. Yes. That's a long relationship with that therapist. Well, I had a few before him, but I did see him for about five years.

[00:16:02] And then you also said you were on meds that weren't good or helping, and then you changed course. This is when you were back like 17 after your attempt. Did you or have you been on meds for most of your life to deal with the stuff? I was off meds from college until about 2017, 2018. I just felt myself getting worse and worse. And my therapist said, you need to go to the doctor and you need to tell your primary what's going on. And I did. And she helped.

[00:16:31] And in that time, did you ever get diagnoses you think are accurate? Severe clinical depression. I was also diagnosed with something called trash hoarding, a form of OCD brought on by unresolved grief and loss. Wow. Okay. And I couldn't figure out what the heck was going on. Why would I eat a piece of string cheese and throw it away, but the wrapper hits the floor? Why don't I just bend down and pick it up? I didn't know it had a name. I didn't know it was anything.

[00:16:59] When I started talking about this, when I went into my first inpatient, they said, oh, this is what it is. A trash hoarding basically is that it's not that you don't want to throw things away, it's that you can't, which makes sense. My apartment a lot of times would be a hot mess, especially starting around 2017 when the MS started because I was so, so tired. People walk in and they're like, oh, all we have to do is throw everything away.

[00:17:28] Not the case. It doesn't work. Right. You feel like your space is being invaded. You feel like people don't understand what's going on and they don't because it's not talked about. And it is embarrassing and it's hard. You got to really, really work to get through it. And it's still a work in process, but I'm working on it. All right. Cool. Well, this is like the mind is just fascinating. It really, really is.

[00:17:53] If the main thing around all that is you had said it was around unresolved grief. Grief and trauma. And trauma. I'm just reminded of so often, mostly through these kinds of these conversations, like, man, you go through that kind of stuff and then to the outsider, it doesn't make sense, but to you it does. And that was exactly it. And I could not say to anyone, look, I can't help this. Of course you can. Just throw this crap away. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.

[00:18:22] What would it feel like if you or somebody else threw it away? Oh, it'd be horrible. It would feel like you were being invaded. Yeah. Like people were judging you. I'm sure people were judging you. Let's be honest about it. I mean, please. A lot of times after people in my life started leaving, it felt like I was being thrown away like the trash that was in my apartment. Wow. And also I'd imagine maybe do you think twice before inviting people over? Yes. So it impacts, you know, obviously social life.

[00:18:52] I used to love to have like game nights and people over for dinner and that sort of thing. And I didn't do that for a really long time, which is sad because I think sharing food is a great way of bonding. Game nights are fun. A hundred percent. Up until that point, and maybe also after that point, were you ever in a hospital for anything psychiatric or mental? No, I never was. What happened to 2016? 2016. 2016. I worked for a social justice nonprofit. I loved the job.

[00:19:21] I started as an executive assistant and went to, was promoted to assistant director after a couple of years. So it was a lot of political stuff. The presidential election that year where, you know, I had people in my office being worried about being sent to concentration camps. Jeez. Because of who they are. And they're still worried. How interesting that we're having this conversation, I believe, four or five days before January 20th. Absolutely. It was that.

[00:19:49] It was the Pulse shooting, the Pulse massacre for these wonderful young queer kids of color who just wanted to dance with their friends on a Saturday night. This asshole went in and killed 52 people. HB2, known as the bathroom bill in North Carolina, saying that you had to use the restroom based on your gender on your driver's license. So people who were trans, SOL.

[00:20:17] Well, I spent a lot of time, number one, writing grants so that people could use the freaking bathroom. Yeah. And number two, listening to people and walking with people to the bathroom when we were in public to make sure they were safe. Talk about on the street, on the ground. The work itself was rewarding, it sounds like. Oh, it was amazing. You would have stayed there. I think I was getting burned out to the extent that, yes, I really needed to amp up the job search.

[00:20:42] Um, I knew that my former executive director and I made a really, really good team. Um, and that it did need to go in a different direction, which is why they resigned. And then you end up losing your job. For the purposes of this conversation, that takes a toll on you. A horrible toll. I was wearing, it was Halloween. I was wearing a Halloween costume. Who the hell does that? What do you mean? Who the hell fires someone in a Halloween costume? Oh, God. On a gay high holy day, you know, right? Wait, what was the outfit? What was the costume?

[00:21:11] Um, devil in a blue dress. Devil in a blue dress. All right. Yeah. Like blue glitter eyeshadow, the whole shebang. Sequin devil ears. Don't dance in the rain with that. It's not a good, because then it might come off. So, and just for context, this is 2016. It's about seven years before your attempt. Yes. Yeah. I can remember after the Pulse shooting, taking care of the community and taking care of volunteers. And we had therapists come in for two days who volunteered their time. Yeah.

[00:21:39] To talk to anyone in the community who needed it. We also had a very good friend of mine come in to facilitate a discussion group for volunteers. And I'm listening to all these people talk. I'm afraid to go to Target. I don't want to go to Target. I'm scared. I'm going to be shot because of who I am. And I'm sitting there thinking, all I want to do is protect these people. You know, I had another staff member there and I was their boss. I just wanted to protect them. And I knew there was no way to protect them from a madman with a gun.

[00:22:09] And I also knew I couldn't say that in that moment because I was the senior staff member there. Well, when you lose your job, you can certainly help people, but you don't have this sort of institutional or organizational support. You don't have the, you're just Kelly in rally. That just sounds really, really hard. To be let go with, we're eliminating your position in 2019. All right. So it's a 2019, you lose the job. Yes.

[00:22:35] And what I heard was instead of we're eliminating your position was we're eliminating you. It felt like we're eliminating you. Yeah, of course. If I heard correctly earlier, between those two periods of time in 2017, you got diagnosed with MS. Yes. How did you know to go to the doctor? What were you feeling that you went? Or was it a routine checkup? How did that come about? I honestly thought I had Alzheimer's. I was forgetting things. I was dropping words. My balance was getting a little off.

[00:23:05] And at my six-month physical, I talked to her and she was like, oh, you need to see a neurologist. The neurologist called me the next day to set up the appointment. Went through all the MRIs and scans and everything. I looked at her and said, do I have Alzheimer's? They had me in to a neuropsychiatrist within a week. And when I went back the following week to get my results, he said, you are less than a month away from being in bed all the time. You need to take some time off. You need to take it now.

[00:23:35] And you need to start looking for a new job. At what point did they tell you you have MS? When I went back after all the test results are in, just for the follow-up with the neurologist, she told me, but I knew something was up. So I wasn't overly surprised. I was relieved that it wasn't Alzheimer's. MS has its own sets of challenges. Like, I've been in sponsorship meetings where I'm saying to people at Big Bank Company or what have you, how can you sponsor us? And I've dropped words.

[00:24:04] I've learned to really slow down and think about what I'm going to say. So it affects memory. It affects my memory. I get infusions about every six months. It helps. It's, I feel really tired the day of, and then I feel so much better for a few months after that. And I'm just lucky that I had a good neurologist, have a good neurologist. Yeah, for sure. Right. Who will hear me. I can email her now and she would get back to me as quickly as she could. Multiple sclerosis. Yes. Relapsing, remitting. So you keep working.

[00:24:32] 2019, you lose your job. Yes. At some point in this time around here, when is it that you start taking meds? Because you said you really felt like you needed to. Right around the same time as the diagnosis. Probably a little bit before. Were these more, quote, modern meds helpful? Yes. I'm still on what I originally started on. I'm just on a higher dose. The attempt was in September 2023.

[00:24:58] And about a year prior, you started feeling maybe ideating or thinking about it? Ideating and thinking about it and coming up with a plan. I always assumed there was a reason. There might not be. But was there a reason why 2022 you started ideating, planning? I don't know that anything set me off specifically. Other than I'm back to feeling like I'm not good enough. I'm never going to amount to anything. I'm the creative one. That shit doesn't go away easily, does it?

[00:25:28] And you were planning a year in advance or just planning but not? I don't know that I was planning. I was kind of tinkering. What if? What if? What if? It's an interesting space to be existing in, no? It's bizarre. Because I love to travel and I love the water. I would drive over Alligator River going to the Outer Banks. It was like, what if I just gunned it? Was there a thing that happened in September of 2023? I mean, I understand you attempted and I want to hear more about that. But again, just like I asked you with the first attempt.

[00:25:56] I think what's the final thing that set me off was a contract job that I should have been really, really good at in a similar organization. Just felt like I was being backstabbed, backstabbed, backstabbed and could not achieve my potential. I think that was the final thing that set me off. But it was a little bit later before I attempted. I remember the date because I looked it up. What is it? I was like, September 10th.

[00:26:23] Against the advice of my psychiatrist and my therapist, I looked it up. I scrolled back through my phone last year. I was like, I just really want to know the date. I wonder why they advised against it. Because as fixated as I get on things, it's just going to fixate in my head from now on September 10th. It's always going to be there. And September 11th, obviously, like you're from New York. I have a friend whose parent was on Flight 11. When I started thinking, I was like, surely I didn't do it on September 11th. Like, surely not. So was it also meds? Took a ton of Xanax.

[00:26:53] That was on auto refill. And I didn't need it every day. So I didn't take it every day. You were at home? I was at home. Drinking? Water and coffee. Water, coffee, Xanax. This is a little bit of a weird question. But do you remember when you were taking the Xanax, was it all at once? Was it one by one? Was it... What was that like? I almost think I started it. One, two, three. But I can't remember. I don't know if I did the whole shebang or what.

[00:27:19] And the reason I ask is I think about when somebody is in that state, I'll call it that. I think for a lot of people, they would think people who are overdosing with the intent to die might be if they were to see them freaking out. What I found is that's very much not the case. It might be once in a while. It might be sometimes. But for a lot of people, it's not the case at all. Do you remember? What was your calm? Kind of like, this is it. This is what I'm going to do.

[00:27:48] Were you kind of, quote unquote, freaking out? I wasn't freaking out at all. I was ready. I was done. There were some things swirling around. Like, I just went out of this crap. Yeah. There has got to be a better place. And this certainly isn't it. You go to sleep again? I went to sleep. I started out on the sofa with a kitten I had just adopted. Eventually moved to the bedroom. Eventually you woke up? No. Friends found me. Former friends found me. How'd they find you?

[00:28:15] They got concerned that I wasn't responding to texts or phone calls. And yes, sometimes I'm busy and I'm not going to respond in five minutes. But I think I was found on a Wednesday from what I've been able to piece together. And I took the meds on a Sunday. Okay. So you again were asleep for a few days. Your body reacts. And then there were different medications. Yes. And how exactly did your now former friends find you? They had a key. So one of them lived about 10 minutes away.

[00:28:40] And the other one was basically someone I knew that I could trust to come check on the kitty cat if it was needed. I wonder what it's like for them when they walk in and... Oh, I think it had to be hell. At first they might have just thought you were sleeping. I was in the bathtub. I remember getting really hot and getting into the bathtub and just running cold water over me. I don't know how long I was in the bathtub. Yeah, that much Xanax will do it. I'm sure. What happens in the next hours or days? They called 911, took me to the hospital.

[00:29:09] From there I went inpatient. While I was inpatient, they were making decisions about me without me. Who was making the decisions? Former friends. They rehomed the cat. And I was not able to get her back. They took about $2,000 worth of items from my apartment. They also lied to me about what my apartment manager was saying because I was behind on my rent. And it was, oh, you're going to have to be out by next Saturday. And when I got out, I called her. She said, Kelly, we haven't even filed eviction yet.

[00:29:37] So the friends from when you were 17 are still in your life? Those two, yes. Well, I'm going to assume the friends you're referring to here, you're no longer friends with. No, I'm not. I could not be friends with people who would be that cruel and that heartless. And who would post your suicide note and the condition of your apartment on social media? Absolutely not. There was another note? I wrote a note. Was it longer than last time? They said it was about four pages. I seriously doubt it was that long. I don't have it. I have never been able to get answers on who has it.

[00:30:05] If it was four pages, it was small pages. It wasn't like a big legal pad or anything. They complained about the songs I wanted sung, who I wanted to sing them. A lot of shit about, I mentioned my best friend of, gosh, since the 90s. I'm so sorry. I love you. They were mad about that. Something was going on with them. Who knows? I think egos got involved.

[00:30:30] And my understanding, and I sincerely believe this, it started out for about a day where they really did want to help and want to make a difference. And I sincerely believe that to the bottom of my heart. I don't know what happened after everyone went to sleep, but my understanding is something changed. Yeah, probably. They started cutting out people who were standing up for me. No, don't rehome her cat. Just take care of the cat. They were just cutting people out who had anything to say.

[00:30:58] The person I mentioned at the end of that letter, they had Zoom meetings about me. They had ongoing text and email threads. They created a spreadsheet about what to do, all while I'm inpatient for four days. Yes. So you're in the hospital and it's hard to kill yourself there. Yes, exactly. I was where I needed to be. I went voluntarily because I knew I needed to be there. Oh, so that hospital pre-inpatient would have maybe let you go after they treated you for the more immediate thing. Maybe.

[00:31:27] I wouldn't have wanted to let me go. No, I get it. Right, right. So you go in there and eventually they let you out. I know as this is going on and afterwards, you're learning about all this other stuff that happened with your friends that I'm sure made your life much harder once you got out. They added about a year and a half of recovery time. Wow. There's karma. We'll see what happens here. Who knows? A year and a half is about where we're at now. Yes. You had mentioned that Holly Hill's, the four-day stay shortly after the attempt was round one.

[00:31:56] So is there a round two, round three? There was a round two where the same group of former friends started making threats and I didn't feel safe in my apartment. My apartment manager was working on getting someone to change the logs and I didn't feel safe. And I contacted former theater friends as well as some friends who've been in my life for a long time. The theater community stepped up in ways I have not seen. All right.

[00:32:24] Shout out to the theater community here in the Triangle helping Kelly out. So tell me about the second place. The second place, I had better crisis intervention skills than most of the staff and I was taking care of everyone else. I finally looked at the PA and I said, look, this is impacting my recovery. Like I can't do this. You want to tell me where that was? I will tell you what it was. Raleigh Oaks. Raleigh Oaks. So we don't have a lot of praise for them. We have no praise for them. Like I saw people's rights violated.

[00:32:52] And how long were you there for? About the same amount of time, about four days. Okay. Four days. That's your amount of time. You're a four day person. That's barely my amount of time. And these are not, I don't think what people think they are. No. Like you don't go in and you're not in therapy all the time. No. You're doing a lot of sitting around and coloring. Man, I was just done. I got lucky in that a friend, two friends actually found someone who was familiar with Triangle Springs.

[00:33:19] When I got out, I got into their partial hospitalization program. So when you're sleeping at home at night. Okay. You're doing small group therapy during the day. They helped you with your medication. They helped you like with therapists, with psychiatrists, everything like that. And I to this day believe that's what saved me. They're helping you with like just crossing the T's and dotting the I's because you can't fucking do it when you're down. It's just impossible.

[00:33:45] You need like a legit advocate or supporter or call them whatever you want who just like, I'll make the phone call for you. They were just amazing. So huge. Good for them. Good for them. Colin and Lisa. They found Triangle Springs. Triangle Springs, Colin and Lisa, shout out to you. I know you're probably not hearing this, but good job. Good job. Literally saved your life. It saved my life. And when was that? When did you start going to that program? I would say late September, early October. It's a four week program.

[00:34:12] You go from 8 a.m. until 2 p.m. five days a week and you do one program for two weeks and then you graduate into the next program. And I graduated. I'm done, but they're still there if I ever need them. They're just fantastic. And so from September, October 2023 to today, what's it been like? What's your life been like since then? It has been much more difficult. It's been like I'm trying to rebuild and rebuilding is harder than constructing, which a friend said to me last week. And they are completely right. Right. It's so much harder.

[00:34:43] I lost so much. I lost people who were considered chosen family. I made really bad choices with some of the people in my life. And we do. And you got unlucky. Yes. It has strengthened a lot of other friendships. And for that, I'm grateful. And I don't know that I've ever been more grateful to be part of the theater community. What else did you lose, if anything? Anything that I had within myself that made me feel like I was lovable. Well, it's interesting that you said it's gotten harder, which makes sense.

[00:35:12] Rebuilding is harder. You feel like you're not or less lovable. At the same time, though, you said the people at that one-month program saved your life. Yes. So they saved your life. So let's speculate. If not for them, do you think you would have tried again? I had never thought about that. I think you might be right that I probably would have tried again. Only asking because, you know, you said saved my life. And it could have been, you know, you might have meant any number of things by that.

[00:35:39] But my brain thought, oh, so if not for that, maybe she would have. Right. I think so. I absolutely think so. But it's been really hard. I wouldn't wish what I've been going through on most people. What are your days like? When I'm contracting, I work. I love to go to Falls Lake and walk. I job search. I look for creative things to do. I learn new songs. I'm writing my story right now. Or it's called Love in Every Form.

[00:36:07] I think it's on Valentine's Day or around then. It is the 16th. Kelly's going to be one of a dozen or so storytellers. And a little pat on Sean's back. He's coaching some of the storytellers, including Kelly. Absolutely. And you're doing a great job because we met on it the other day. I appreciate that. So what we're doing, if people aren't clear, is we're trying to take essentially from a lot of the stuff you shared in the last 80 minutes, kind of like one five or six minute story. So that's challenging. Really, really hard.

[00:36:35] Anybody who's tried knows how hard that can be. I never would have imagined it would be this hard. I never would have imagined the recovery from a suicide attempt would be this hard. Everyone's life has challenges. They just do. You do. I do. All of the people listening do. It sucks. How often do you think about ending your life these days? Rarely. I can't honestly remember the last time I thought about it. Throughout this rebuilding, recovery, super hard, you weren't ideating, really?

[00:37:00] I'm not really ideating because at this point, I took enough Xanax that should have taken me out. Why the hell am I still here? I don't know, but maybe I should figure out why. No idea. No clue. No clue. Thank you for your honesty. Well, I would rather say that than be dishonest and say, yes. Yes. Some people figure it out or maybe they figure it out and then realize it's something else. But okay. Well, I got to tell you from my own experience, not knowing that is hard too.

[00:37:30] Really hard. It's like you're waking up and you're like, what? What am I? Yeah. Like, what the hell? Why did you want to talk with me? I think there's so much stigma still around mental health and suicide and a lot of other things like domestic violence, sexual violence, being a member of the LGBT community, HIV status. The only way to help reduce stigma is to speak your truth. And I'm viewing this, there's so much around mental health and suicide. I'm viewing this as I am speaking my truth.

[00:37:59] Maybe it will help someone. Maybe it will help someone not attempt. Maybe it will help someone who knows someone who attempted and they're acting like assholes. And maybe it'll help them see, hey, I might need to rethink this. How many people know that we're talking today? Three people know. Oh, you told three people. Okay. Three people know, including my therapist. Oh, wow. What did he or she say? And she loves it. Yeah? Yeah. She's 150% on board. I see her tomorrow.

[00:38:29] Oh, cool. She loves that I audition for Love in Every Form. Nice, yeah. I have a friend in Ohio who knows and a friend who has been around for quite a while and was in the group and we're still friends. Of the friends you've mentioned that are still in your life, how many people can you talk to if you're feeling suicidal and actually really be completely transparent with them? Probably the same three. Yeah? Yeah. Maybe five. Staying with friends right now.

[00:38:58] They're really good at stuff and I would tell them. You're staying with friends right now. You don't have your own home? I don't have my own home right now. That's another huge challenge. Mm-hmm. I would think, no? My stuff's in storage, but that's okay. I'll get a better place. It's fine. Yeah. So my cat's here. That's important. Different cat, though. Different cat, yes. A couple people knew about your first attempt. A whole lot more people know about the more recent one. Yes. When this comes out, do you think you'll listen to it? Probably. I probably will listen to it.

[00:39:28] I will probably do a select group on Facebook and say, hey, I did this if you would like to listen. I would love for you all to listen. And with content warning, it is about the suicide attempt. So don't if you don't have the spoons. Spoons, yes. Spoons. So as we talk right now, and it is mid-January, happens to be 3.18 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, is suicide a possibility for you?

[00:39:57] It's not a possibility for me right now. I would not end my life right now. Let me tack on another question to that. Pink and purple pill question. I gave you a pill right now through Zoom. Should you choose to take this pill, ingest it, you go to sleep, and you do not wake up. There is no pain, and nobody knows it's a suicide. Do you take it? Do you save it? Do you throw it out? Do you do something else with it? Right now, at this very moment, I would probably just hand it back to you. Yeah. I don't know if anyone's ever said that they'd give it back to me. I like it.

[00:40:25] Who knows what might go through my head? I don't want it. You take it, Sean. Okay. Well, not for you to take it, but you might have someone else who wants it. I don't need it right now, but thank you for the offer. Sure. I'm just always curious to see how people respond to that. Some people say they would take it. I would say more people say they save it. I feel like once you've attempted it, there's, I was going to say humbling. It doesn't sound like quite the right word, where it's like once you've attempted, it's kind of like the genie's out.

[00:40:54] You're never maybe 100% in the clear. Not everyone feels that way, of course, but it seems that I would say the majority do. It's like, okay, it's possible. It's possible. The other question I wanted to ask you is, are there any myths or misconceptions around suicide, suicidality? And you brought up a lot of stuff around, you know, let's call it social justice, marginalized groups. Is there one or two sort of myths that really stand out that you want to call bullshit on?

[00:41:22] One, that people who talk about suicide don't do it. That's a myth. I told someone in the group that left that I was in trouble and it was met with, I can't deal with this right now. The other one is that people who claim to love you may not stick around when a major crisis happens. It's harmful as hell. It's also accurate. All right. So I want to be clear. So myth number one is that sometimes when people talk about it, they're serious. Yes. I haven't, I don't know if I've heard that before.

[00:41:52] And I think some people, it's interesting because, and this is why it's fascinating to talk to different people is I've heard the opposite. Like just because someone's talking about it doesn't mean they're going to different experiences. Okay, cool. And then the second one is that sometimes people who say they love you will not be there for you. So the myth is that they will be there for you. Yes. Or there's this sort of thinking or assumptions that love equals XYZ during hard times.

[00:42:21] And the XYZ is good stuff. The only thing I would ever ask of anyone in my life is if I am in a bad situation, treat me exactly how I've treated you when you were in a crisis situation. Hope you're hearing this out there. Whoever you are, you stumble across this and you hear Kelly and she's talking to you. I am. You know who you are, people. Would Kelly in, if Kelly in 2025 were talking to Kelly at 17 years old, what would you say to her? If anything?

[00:42:50] Kelly, you're going to need to be in therapy for most of your life. You will probably be on medication for most of your life. If you were diabetic, you would take your medicine for that. There is nothing wrong with needing help with your mental health, with needing medication for mental health. Just do it. Therapy actually helps you. Medication can actually help you. To the people in my life who left, the things you did that you thought would keep me safe actually caused me more harm. You know better, do better. To those who stayed, for a long time I viewed myself as unlovable.

[00:43:21] Y'all have shown me this isn't the case. Thank you. I love y'all. Now, you know today, Thursday and Friday, today's Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. I'm looking at the weather in Chapel Hill, which is probably quite similar to Raleigh. It's chilly, but it's sunny. But on this weekend, starting Saturday, perhaps into Sunday, it looks like we have a pretty good chance of rain. Now, given what I know about you and given a possible memoir title, my question, and perhaps

[00:43:48] the final one is, might you be dancing in the rain this weekend? I think I might dance in the rain this weekend. What are you going to wear? Or does that not? Yeah. What are you going to wear? Yoga shorts and a tank top, probably. Dancing in the rain? Yeah, absolutely. Why not? Sort of freestyle, free form? Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Like all these years of ballet lessons kind of didn't pay off. So free form. Sounds fun. Thank you for talking. Thank you for having me. Of course.

[00:44:17] I really appreciate what you're doing with this. Thanks again and enjoy dancing in the rain, Kelly. Thank you, Sean. I'll send you a picture. Do that. Yeah, yeah. We'll talk soon. Thank you. Have a good one. Bye. Take care. Bye. As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support. And special thanks to Kelly in North Carolina. Thanks, Kelly. If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out. I would really love to talk with you.

[00:44:45] Our email is hello at suicidenoted.com. You can learn more about this podcast, including our membership and our podcast training, among other things, in the show notes. And if you have a moment, help us out by rating or reviewing or perhaps both on Apple, Spotify, wherever you can. It really does help. Thanks for that. And that is all for episode number 259. Stay strong. Do the best you can. I will talk to you soon.