Kelly in New Jersey

[00:00:00] If you are going through any situation where you feel like you're in constant pain, all

[00:00:06] of your waking moments, you are not alone.

[00:00:09] There's a random chick who is waking up with you and going through the day with you, not

[00:00:14] knowing if things are going to get better.

[00:00:40] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted.

[00:00:43] On this podcast I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories.

[00:00:47] Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost

[00:00:51] never talk about it.

[00:00:52] We certainly don't talk about it enough and when we do talk about it, many of us, including

[00:00:56] me, we are not very good at it.

[00:00:58] So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better

[00:01:02] conversations with attempt survivors in large part to hopefully help more people in more

[00:01:07] places feel a little less shitty and a little less alone.

[00:01:10] Shout out to all of you who have been involved, guests, listeners and members, including our

[00:01:15] Lifetime members, Mo and Helena, and everybody involved with the conference out in Keystone,

[00:01:22] Colorado, which I got back from yesterday.

[00:01:24] It went quite well.

[00:01:25] Deanna, who is a member and a listener and invited me out there, was a gracious host.

[00:01:30] To Elizabeth and Holly and Charlotte, who presented or co-presented and did a great job.

[00:01:37] I also want to thank Kayla and Sharon, who facilitate our group on Signal.

[00:01:42] You can learn more about all of this stuff, the Signal group, the membership, among other

[00:01:46] things in the show notes, so check that out if you'd like.

[00:01:49] Now, if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:01:53] Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or Twitter slash x at suicide noted.

[00:01:59] And of course, if you don't want to be a guest, but you want to reach out for whatever reason,

[00:02:03] I'd love to hear from you.

[00:02:04] Finally, we are talking about suicide on this podcast.

[00:02:07] We don't hold back, so please take that into account before you listen or as you listen.

[00:02:11] But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn.

[00:02:14] Today I am talking with Kelly.

[00:02:16] Kelly lives in New Jersey, though for our conversation she was in New York, and she

[00:02:21] is a suicide attempt survivor.

[00:02:26] What's going on, Kelly?

[00:02:27] How you doing?

[00:02:28] I'm doing okay.

[00:02:31] I'm doing fairly mediocre.

[00:02:33] How are you?

[00:02:34] Probably a little worse than that.

[00:02:37] So you're a suicide noted guest in their car.

[00:02:40] Correct.

[00:02:41] This is a trend.

[00:02:43] So funny.

[00:02:44] I can immediately see you're in New York.

[00:02:46] Yeah, right now I am.

[00:02:48] Do you want to share where you live?

[00:02:49] I can cut it out if you don't want me to tell people.

[00:02:51] Sure, no.

[00:02:52] New Jersey.

[00:02:53] All right.

[00:02:54] So what kind of car are you in?

[00:02:55] I'm in a 2017 black Honda CRV named Karen.

[00:03:00] We're going with Kelly, not Karen though.

[00:03:01] Yeah, I'm Kelly.

[00:03:02] This is Karen.

[00:03:04] Karen is an interesting choice because there's that pejorative use of the name Karen.

[00:03:11] Is that a coincidence?

[00:03:13] It was until she started acting like a Karen this past year and she fulfilled her prophecy,

[00:03:19] but it's actually named after Plankton's computer wife from SpongeBob.

[00:03:23] Oh, of course.

[00:03:24] How did I not think of that?

[00:03:26] Everyone here knows if they've listened to the podcast, I am from New York.

[00:03:29] Where are you?

[00:03:30] You don't have to give the exact location, of course, but where in general are you in

[00:03:33] New York right now?

[00:03:34] Hudson Valley.

[00:03:35] We're talking.

[00:03:37] Maybe I should just have the whole podcast for you, Kelly, and me just say things that

[00:03:41] are blatantly obvious because everyone loves that.

[00:03:44] Right.

[00:03:45] So for example, I'm in North Carolina, you're in New York.

[00:03:49] We're talking about suicide, at least in large part.

[00:03:52] Yeah, we should never actually talk about it.

[00:03:54] We should just like the whole time almost talk about it.

[00:03:57] That would be cool.

[00:03:58] And then I could change the name of the podcast to maybe something like, what would we say?

[00:04:04] Suicide almost noted.

[00:04:07] Almost noted.

[00:04:08] Exactly.

[00:04:09] Perfect.

[00:04:10] How did we find each other?

[00:04:11] You emailed me after finding this and I'm always curious how people find it and why.

[00:04:15] I was searching for just suicide content in general, but especially like personal stories

[00:04:26] of people.

[00:04:27] I'm always like low in a low key state of crisis these days, but it was just it was

[00:04:31] like spike at that moment.

[00:04:34] And then I found your podcast and it seems super interesting.

[00:04:38] And I started listening and I immediately felt like this sense of calm-ish listening

[00:04:44] to people like talk about this subject and feeling like I couldn't really talk to anybody

[00:04:48] about it.

[00:04:49] Super helpful.

[00:04:50] Listened to a bunch.

[00:04:52] And like I emailed to you, I feel like my story in particular has a few unique twists

[00:04:57] and turns.

[00:04:58] Everybody's does obviously.

[00:04:59] You're okay clearly with the fact that there will be people, not a small number of people

[00:05:04] who you don't know will hear you at least hear your voice.

[00:05:07] Talk about things that from what you just shared or a few minutes ago, you don't really

[00:05:11] talk much about with people.

[00:05:14] No.

[00:05:16] And it's not like me not wanting to share.

[00:05:18] I would say I think it's the stigma, right?

[00:05:22] It doesn't come from me.

[00:05:23] It kind of comes from me trying to at least for people I'm close to like protect them

[00:05:27] and not have them get upset.

[00:05:30] And then publicly, whether it's affecting my career or anything like that, like I don't

[00:05:37] want to risk that.

[00:05:39] I don't think I have enough going on.

[00:05:41] So right.

[00:05:43] So keep it on the DL.

[00:05:44] I think so.

[00:05:45] Not in the DM in the deal.

[00:05:47] Yeah, right.

[00:05:48] Bada bing, bada boom, New Yorkers, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop.

[00:05:52] How many near suicide or actual suicide attempts do you have in your life?

[00:05:57] One.

[00:05:58] And when was that one?

[00:05:59] In terms of like timing and stuff.

[00:06:01] I feel like the past few years have been one really long bad day.

[00:06:06] So it's difficult for me to kind of pinpoint how long ago things were.

[00:06:10] And I try to forget things actively, but I think it was 2021.

[00:06:14] Okay.

[00:06:16] And that would have been the sort of start or towards the beginning of this bad day,

[00:06:21] bad day years.

[00:06:22] Oh, no.

[00:06:23] Where does it start?

[00:06:25] I have had some brand of mental health struggle since I was like 12.

[00:06:31] And the primary flavor of this struggle was OCD.

[00:06:36] Kind of this fear of myself, I would say, which is like a common OCD theme for people

[00:06:43] feeling like I'm randomly going to lose control.

[00:06:45] Kind of like very philosophical for a 12 year old, but feeling like what is the difference

[00:06:50] between me becoming a mass murderer or me going to college?

[00:06:56] What makes those two things different?

[00:06:59] Why can't I just suddenly become this?

[00:07:02] Very thoughts that I should have been thinking about my Game Boy at the time.

[00:07:07] I didn't tell anybody about these thoughts or how anxious they made me until they got,

[00:07:13] like most people, so unbearable that I had to.

[00:07:16] And that actually led to what I thought at the time was kind of a suicide attempt because

[00:07:23] that theme started going towards like, why wouldn't I just stab myself right now?

[00:07:28] What's stopping me from stabbing myself versus going to school?

[00:07:33] It's hard to explain fear of losing control, I guess, of myself.

[00:07:40] I think I was like 14.

[00:07:42] I remember it clear as day.

[00:07:44] There was Oprah on the TV, so that shows.

[00:07:46] I just couldn't stop thinking about stabbing myself.

[00:07:50] It was always stabbing for some reason.

[00:07:52] Stabbing myself.

[00:07:53] And I was so scared about it, which is wild.

[00:07:56] So you would think I would connect the dots and be like, if I'm scared of it, that means

[00:08:00] I don't want to do it.

[00:08:02] But I just felt obsessed with it almost, being the person that I am, the New Yorker.

[00:08:08] I was like, okay, if you want to stab yourself so bad, just do it.

[00:08:12] You're obviously so obsessed with it, so let's do it.

[00:08:15] So I grabbed the knife in the kitchen and I held it here.

[00:08:19] And then I just broke down.

[00:08:20] And just for our listeners, Kelly was stabbing herself kind of in the center of her chest.

[00:08:27] Yes.

[00:08:28] Very cinematic.

[00:08:31] So I don't count that at all as an attempt because having had something I do count as

[00:08:36] an attempt.

[00:08:36] The psychology of where I was at the time is so different between that and when I actually

[00:08:44] attempted.

[00:08:45] Question.

[00:08:46] So you said, I don't know what stopped me from doing the thing.

[00:08:50] And then you tried to do it and you didn't complete it.

[00:08:52] So do you have an answer to that?

[00:08:53] What did stop you?

[00:08:55] Because I never actually wanted to do it.

[00:08:57] It was fear.

[00:08:58] And it was me not understanding how thinking works also at a young age and being kind of

[00:09:05] a lot of people on your podcast, I find have that extra level of like people have thoughts

[00:09:12] and then there's metathoughts of thinking about the thoughts and why are they happening?

[00:09:16] And why would I think this versus this?

[00:09:19] And to have that level of metacognition at such a young age, I think was just really

[00:09:25] messing with me.

[00:09:26] And I had nobody to kind of explain like, oh, because you have a thought, that doesn't mean

[00:09:32] that it's real.

[00:09:33] Just because you have a thought, you want to stab yourself.

[00:09:36] Right.

[00:09:36] Want to stab yourself like people have intrusive thoughts and it's very classic OCD and suicidal

[00:09:41] OCD is actually like a sub theme of people being obsessed with wanting to kill themselves,

[00:09:46] but they don't actually, it's more anxiety driven.

[00:09:51] So I ended up going into treatment or my parents thought it was like a legit suicide attempt.

[00:09:55] But upon seeing professionals, they kind of were like, wow, this is so textbook OCD,

[00:10:00] which is awesome.

[00:10:02] And I got really intensive treatment for only about a week and it worked so beautifully.

[00:10:08] I was also so young, like being scared straight too.

[00:10:12] So when you say it worked so beautifully, you're not being facetious, it worked.

[00:10:16] Oh, for sure.

[00:10:17] You kind of go back on track-ish?

[00:10:19] Yeah, for sure.

[00:10:20] I mean, I was still riddled with anxiety and some obsessive tendencies, but nothing that

[00:10:26] I felt really affected my quality of life at all.

[00:10:30] And if anything was like an asset in a lot of ways, because I did really well in school.

[00:10:36] It did help me, the anxiety that I have.

[00:10:39] Friends?

[00:10:40] Many.

[00:10:40] Did well in school?

[00:10:42] Played all the sports, did all the extracurriculars.

[00:10:45] What is your background, your ethnicity?

[00:10:48] 50% Irish, 50% Yugoslavian, which we think is Croatian.

[00:10:53] We're not sure.

[00:10:54] Oh, right, right, right.

[00:10:55] One of my favorite former countries, and I'm not joking.

[00:10:58] Same, actually, I visited.

[00:11:00] It was incredible.

[00:11:01] Very different from here.

[00:11:02] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:11:04] All right, so 14, high school, things are back on track.

[00:11:07] So this is, again, if my math is right, at least 10 plus years, at least, I think, before

[00:11:14] the big stuff.

[00:11:15] Yeah, so in that interim, what's funny is, it's not like I wasn't always struggling to

[00:11:22] some degree, but I suffered from eating disorders.

[00:11:25] I suffered from what else?

[00:11:28] See, I get so blurry, because honestly, though, when I look back at those years, I don't even

[00:11:33] think about that stuff, because I was kind of just doing it alongside of my life.

[00:11:38] Everything that I had been through in terms of mental health, I pretty much blazed through

[00:11:44] it, got professional help.

[00:11:46] And it always, at least to some degree, helped me enough that I was able to not have it be

[00:11:51] a defining characteristic of me.

[00:11:53] And never really depression, I would say.

[00:11:56] Depression for me was always secondary to whether it was an eating issue or the OCD.

[00:12:01] I would get really depressed because all I was doing was obsessing all day.

[00:12:06] So if I would have told you in high school or college, maybe sometime after, there's

[00:12:13] going to come a point when you're going to be talking to somebody about a suicide attempt

[00:12:18] at that age, would you have said, you're out of your fucking mind?

[00:12:22] For sure.

[00:12:23] I would have been like, there's no world that I would do that.

[00:12:27] I'm actually extremely scared of it and dying, as evidenced by my prior experiences at that

[00:12:35] age.

[00:12:35] It sounds like you're not an ideator at that time.

[00:12:38] No, not at all.

[00:12:40] I always really... this sounds so like home goods display, but I've always had a zest for

[00:12:48] life, kind of always really excited about little things.

[00:12:54] I would get so excited sometimes I would shake because I had so much energy.

[00:12:59] Very social, very...

[00:13:02] Yeah.

[00:13:03] Again, to this day, anyone from that period of time knew...

[00:13:07] Well, anybody honestly now too, knew how I really feel a lot of the time.

[00:13:12] It would be very surprising, I think.

[00:13:14] It's funny because I assume...

[00:13:16] This is a weird thing, but I assume most people are not well, but that's not true.

[00:13:23] That's just my lens.

[00:13:25] So anytime I see somebody, I don't care, it could be the mayor of the town I live in.

[00:13:29] It could be someone I see playing pickleball or at the gym, Trader Joe's and I'm like,

[00:13:34] you're probably suicidal.

[00:13:35] They're not, but in my fucking weird lens, I'm like, you're just presenting to the world.

[00:13:39] It's not fake.

[00:13:40] It's just another version, but I know what's really...

[00:13:44] I don't know shit, but...

[00:13:45] No, for sure.

[00:13:46] And I think for me, it's people who act out or people who aren't nice people.

[00:13:52] I steer towards what's going on for you rather than don't be an asshole.

[00:13:58] Yeah.

[00:13:58] I'm trying to get better about that.

[00:13:59] That's real.

[00:14:00] Yeah.

[00:14:00] Because it's the truth.

[00:14:02] Everybody's got stuff and it shows up in ways that...

[00:14:06] Right.

[00:14:06] Sometimes someone's a snarky or chromogeny or just flat out asshole, but you're like,

[00:14:13] oh, but it's not that simple.

[00:14:16] Yeah, it's really not.

[00:14:17] And I think this is very hot take, but I think humans are innately good.

[00:14:23] I really do.

[00:14:24] And I think that...

[00:14:25] I know.

[00:14:26] Life is so fucking hard that you need to make an active attempt to still be kind after everything

[00:14:36] you go through.

[00:14:37] Every single person goes through in life.

[00:14:39] It's really difficult.

[00:14:40] You have to actively choose to be kind, considerate.

[00:14:44] It seems like it's more accessible to some than others, but hey, we're different.

[00:14:47] We're not all the same person.

[00:14:49] I think that words matter and time matters.

[00:14:54] And there's a fine line between being honest and being cruel.

[00:15:00] Right.

[00:15:01] So a New Yorker like me would say, sure, I do this and this and whatever.

[00:15:05] But at the end of the day, I've got your back.

[00:15:07] It's like, and you could actually be nicer in your words.

[00:15:10] Kind of.

[00:15:11] Yeah.

[00:15:11] And I mean, you can be honest and edgy and still be nice.

[00:15:14] I don't know.

[00:15:15] Like you said, it's so semantic.

[00:15:17] How does this thing shimmy and dance and move towards where things aren't so great in your

[00:15:22] life or so good in your life?

[00:15:24] So went through college, had an incredible experience.

[00:15:29] Definitely looking back, I was not always 100 over 100.

[00:15:36] Still super anxious, over drinking.

[00:15:39] But that's like normal, right?

[00:15:40] For college kids.

[00:15:41] But I was definitely doing it to cope with something.

[00:15:45] But again, I don't think any of that affected my quality of life at the time super severely.

[00:15:51] And if it did, I got treatment for it and moved on.

[00:15:53] Let's fast forward to 2020, I believe.

[00:15:58] I'm in Disney World, actually.

[00:16:00] What a juxtaposition.

[00:16:01] I'm walking.

[00:16:02] I remember where I was, what I was wearing.

[00:16:04] Like it was such a monumental moment in my life.

[00:16:08] I started feeling this really sharp pain, physical pain in my face right above my left

[00:16:15] tooth.

[00:16:16] Felt like I had a cavity.

[00:16:17] I'd never had a cavity or really any physical health issues prior.

[00:16:21] Now, does the fact that you're wearing, can I say this?

[00:16:25] A mouth guard.

[00:16:26] Is that connected to what we're talking about here as it starts in Disney World?

[00:16:30] Ooh.

[00:16:31] All right.

[00:16:31] In the world of story, that's called a breadcrumb.

[00:16:34] Here we go.

[00:16:35] Totally.

[00:16:36] Yeah, yeah.

[00:16:37] A lot of bad things in my life have kind of been connected to Disney World.

[00:16:41] But I realized that recently.

[00:16:42] That's a different story.

[00:16:43] Very strange.

[00:16:44] Yeah.

[00:16:45] I started feeling that pain.

[00:16:47] Stuff.

[00:16:47] But I was like, I'm trying to enjoy myself here.

[00:16:49] It was pretty severe and almost constant from onset.

[00:16:52] Very confusing.

[00:16:53] But again, it's a cavity.

[00:16:55] Shit happens.

[00:16:56] So I waited till I got home.

[00:16:57] I went to a dentist for sure and was like, I have a cavity.

[00:17:01] Let's make an appointment to drill it.

[00:17:03] I already know what it is.

[00:17:04] He starts saying x-rays and he's like, your tooth is literally perfect.

[00:17:07] And I'm like, you're crazy.

[00:17:10] I'm about to drill this myself.

[00:17:12] So I'm going to go somewhere else.

[00:17:13] Everybody who's listening to this or most will be thinking, what is it?

[00:17:16] What is it?

[00:17:17] What is it?

[00:17:18] What did Kelly have?

[00:17:19] It's very unsolved mysteries right now.

[00:17:22] I go to another dentist, nothing.

[00:17:26] And that spirals into probably almost a year long medical journey.

[00:17:32] All the while, I'm feeling pretty severe physical pain in that area.

[00:17:36] Almost constantly.

[00:17:37] No one wants to do anything or to help.

[00:17:40] I'm offered some medications that either don't help or have such severe side effects

[00:17:47] that they only helped because I was basically unconscious.

[00:17:50] Also during that time, I have seen a therapist who is so bad for me

[00:17:54] telling me that it was all psychosomatic.

[00:17:57] I fucking hate that word.

[00:17:58] Oh yeah.

[00:17:59] But not in the way that your nervous system can actually, you know, there's new schools

[00:18:05] of thought where your nerves being irritated actually.

[00:18:09] I rarely use the word trigger and it's too strong of a word, but there are certain things

[00:18:13] that come up in the podcast when I talk with people, I should say, that just make me fucking

[00:18:19] and that's one of the words.

[00:18:20] No, trust me.

[00:18:22] I go through that mood probably once a week.

[00:18:24] These days, I go going from acceptance to all the stages of grief constantly just in

[00:18:31] a cycle.

[00:18:32] I end up in such a bad place thinking that I'm making this physical symptom up.

[00:18:39] It is so debilitating.

[00:18:40] My job, full time actor, full time at the time, I'm going on set talking with this pain

[00:18:46] in my mouth and almost fainting while trying to deliver lines and act as somebody else.

[00:18:52] So you could imagine psychologically how fucked up I was becoming, starting dissociating because

[00:19:00] of physical pain.

[00:19:01] And it helped for the job, obviously.

[00:19:04] But I got to a point actually a year later, I was going to go to Disney World again.

[00:19:09] I'm not a Disney adult.

[00:19:10] I'm not a Disney adult.

[00:19:11] I was given tickets by the same friends to go back.

[00:19:15] They knew I was having a hard time.

[00:19:17] It was my birthday and they thought it would be good for me to, quote, get away.

[00:19:21] But I couldn't even get out of bed.

[00:19:23] And I was laying in bed.

[00:19:24] I was living at home with my family at the time because I was struggling so much.

[00:19:30] All secret, by the way.

[00:19:31] Only my really close friends and my family knew and all the doctors I went to.

[00:19:36] So when you go on set, for example, and you were in pain, you never talk to anybody about it?

[00:19:41] Nobody.

[00:19:41] I would complain like crazy.

[00:19:43] That's what everyone says.

[00:19:44] My boyfriend says now he's like, if I were you, I would be complaining 24 seven.

[00:19:48] But it's just I feel like that also brings attention to it for me.

[00:19:54] It just like adds depression on top of pain.

[00:19:57] Even at that time, I needed to try to escape in whatever way that I could.

[00:20:01] But if it got really bad, I'll just go to the bathroom and just like...

[00:20:04] There's nothing quite like a chronic and local pain.

[00:20:09] I mean, I shouldn't say local because if your whole body hurts, that's pretty fucking awful,

[00:20:13] obviously.

[00:20:14] You know, like people get migraines like that boom or a bad toothache that doesn't go away.

[00:20:20] It's like it can actually...

[00:20:22] I'm being a little loose with my words here...

[00:20:24] Drive you mad.

[00:20:25] Oh, for sure.

[00:20:26] It really can.

[00:20:27] Because your brain is constantly in a fight or flight because you're in pain and it's trying

[00:20:34] to figure out how to escape.

[00:20:36] But it's your own body that you're trying to escape from.

[00:20:38] And that causes your brain to do some wacky stuff to try to escape.

[00:20:44] It gives you some semblance of relief.

[00:20:47] It's kind of fascinating when you hear it and you think about what the brain does.

[00:20:51] How does it know to do that?

[00:20:52] And then why does it choose that route?

[00:20:54] Like I'm just kind of thinking of you when you're younger, like I could go to college

[00:20:59] or I could stab myself or I could become a murderer.

[00:21:01] I just for some reason I'm connecting like the brain could go this way or this way or

[00:21:05] that way or back or pachinko.

[00:21:08] And it just does what it does.

[00:21:09] You're just trying to see your friends or your boyfriend or go to Disney World or go

[00:21:14] on set or do this or that.

[00:21:16] Life doesn't stop is I guess my point.

[00:21:18] No, it really doesn't.

[00:21:20] That's another lesson I've learned through this journey.

[00:21:22] I feel like it's contagious now the way that I analyze my thoughts because you're now starting

[00:21:26] to do it too.

[00:21:27] I'm sure you've done it before.

[00:21:29] But you also said that it fundamentally changed how you...

[00:21:32] I don't remember the words, not who you are or how you are or how you think or this experience.

[00:21:38] You're not the same person on the back end.

[00:21:40] No, definitely the hard wiring, at least for now has changed.

[00:21:46] And then that leads to me being in my bed, my family members.

[00:21:51] I don't want to get into huge detail.

[00:21:53] I've had a lot of family trauma too throughout the years, honestly, on the hierarchy of

[00:21:58] issues for me.

[00:21:59] That's like lower for my sibling.

[00:22:02] It's actually really high because it wasn't like not notable.

[00:22:05] Had a bunch of medication, chilling on the desk.

[00:22:09] My parents had a liquor cabinet and I thought, okay, my choices moving forward are sit in

[00:22:15] this pain, I guess forever because yeah, therapy isn't helping.

[00:22:20] And then going to any kind of doctor isn't helping.

[00:22:23] It's either that or I just end it now.

[00:22:26] And I'm obviously starting to affect the people around me.

[00:22:29] So in that moment, and it might be tricky to remember this, but are you thinking pretty

[00:22:33] sure this is how my life will be forever, this pain and the associated fallout?

[00:22:39] I've gone through my stuff.

[00:22:40] It's different.

[00:22:42] And you're thinking, maybe you weren't thinking such detail, but this is my life.

[00:22:45] And that means compromised relationships, no work, living at home.

[00:22:50] It's just a shit life.

[00:22:52] Totally.

[00:22:52] And it's like, I had such a, I felt great life up until this happening.

[00:22:59] And I had, like, I felt like everybody, it shouldn't matter.

[00:23:02] But for me, it did.

[00:23:03] Everyone had such like a positive view of me as a person.

[00:23:06] And I felt like I impacted people positively throughout my life.

[00:23:10] And I didn't want to, I guess I saw like the spiral little by little, the smallest moments

[00:23:17] of like a weird side comment from my family or like, and it starts like that, especially

[00:23:24] with any kind of chronic illness or pain.

[00:23:26] And then I just saw it five years down the line, me in a basement, still no answers,

[00:23:33] worst pain potentially.

[00:23:34] And I was like, why do I want to?

[00:23:36] It's like when you should stop a show like Friends when it passes by.

[00:23:40] Like we don't keep going and beat a dead horse.

[00:23:43] Well, I do often, but right.

[00:23:45] Yeah.

[00:23:46] Like you shouldn't.

[00:23:47] And sometimes I feel like I'm guilty of sort of pouring fuel on fire, but I'll still ask,

[00:23:52] are you thinking at any point, I guess disbelief?

[00:23:55] This was not the script.

[00:23:56] This was not the script.

[00:23:57] Totally.

[00:23:58] Totally.

[00:23:59] Like how the fuck is this happening to me?

[00:24:01] Why me?

[00:24:01] This is bullshit.

[00:24:02] This is unfair.

[00:24:03] What did I do wrong?

[00:24:05] I watch shows about this, about other people.

[00:24:08] This doesn't happen to me or anybody I know.

[00:24:11] I don't even know anybody who's had pain in their face at all.

[00:24:15] Truly just confusion mixed with avoidance, mixed with hopelessness, mixed with like dissociation.

[00:24:24] If you haven't gone through something where you're debilitated, because some people will

[00:24:29] be struggling, but they can distract themselves because depending on the kind of pain they're in.

[00:24:34] But when you're so debilitated, you have so many like there's limited distraction because

[00:24:39] you've been pained.

[00:24:40] So it's so different and it adds up to the point where I think anything is possible in your case.

[00:24:47] You're going to tell us fairly soon.

[00:24:49] And then I want to know what the fuck this is if you ever found out.

[00:24:53] Right?

[00:24:54] Maybe I didn't.

[00:24:55] No, I did actually.

[00:24:56] But you don't find out until after your attempt.

[00:24:59] Correct.

[00:24:59] Which is American healthcare at its finest.

[00:25:02] I think.

[00:25:02] Right.

[00:25:03] Now we'll take you seriously.

[00:25:06] Wow.

[00:25:06] It really hurts, doesn't it?

[00:25:08] So yeah, I do that.

[00:25:09] You take a bunch of pills, you down it with some booze.

[00:25:12] Swig of Grey Goose.

[00:25:13] Just one swig.

[00:25:15] More than one.

[00:25:16] As many as I needed to keep downing.

[00:25:18] Do you think this is a good time to tell people that this podcast is not endorsed in any way by

[00:25:22] Grey Goose Vodka?

[00:25:24] So true.

[00:25:26] At the end.

[00:25:26] By the way, Grey Goose Vodka, if you're listening, I will gladly accept your money and say something

[00:25:30] about you.

[00:25:30] No problem.

[00:25:31] Just shoot me a message.

[00:25:32] Yeah.

[00:25:33] Let's talk about proper uses of Grey Goose.

[00:25:35] So you go to sleep.

[00:25:37] I'm sure at some point that night you do.

[00:25:39] Your eyes shut.

[00:25:40] So it wasn't even nighttime.

[00:25:41] It was in the morning because I was supposed to go on a plane to Florida.

[00:25:46] I wake up and I'm like, hell no.

[00:25:48] I'm in the bed.

[00:25:50] I make the decision.

[00:25:51] I take everything.

[00:25:53] I'm starting to get very foggy, hazy as one does when you do that.

[00:26:00] And my phone just keeps ringing and ringing and ringing and ringing.

[00:26:04] And I'm just like, can it just stop?

[00:26:06] So I see it and I realize it's my mom.

[00:26:09] She instructs me to go to the bathroom and stick my finger down my throat, which from

[00:26:15] my prior years of eating issues, I was very well accustomed to and try to get as much

[00:26:21] out and to call 911.

[00:26:23] So I did.

[00:26:24] I wasn't even scared at the time at all, which connects back to the story when I was

[00:26:30] younger and I had so much fear around the dying and the suicide.

[00:26:35] There was no anxiety.

[00:26:37] It was just like waiting.

[00:26:39] Last thing I remember is calling 911.

[00:26:40] I don't remember them coming in or anything like that.

[00:26:43] Okay.

[00:26:43] So what happened to the hospital?

[00:26:45] They pump you or they charcoal you?

[00:26:47] Yeah.

[00:26:47] Yeah.

[00:26:48] So I don't remember anything until I woke up with the charcoal drink, which I didn't

[00:26:52] know what it was.

[00:26:54] I was just told to keep drinking it very loopy and out of it still.

[00:26:58] I proceed to be taken once I'm medically stable, I guess, to the padded room where you wait

[00:27:06] your fate and your solitary confinement.

[00:27:09] I end up being admitted to the ward.

[00:27:12] That experience was zero percent helpful.

[00:27:17] Very traumatizing.

[00:27:19] How long were you there for?

[00:27:20] Maybe like seven to ten days.

[00:27:22] And I think that was the length of time was mostly due to the fact that I couldn't be

[00:27:27] seen in a timely manner because they were so overbooked and understaffed that I had

[00:27:35] to beg to see the on staff psychiatrist, anybody literally advocating for myself 24 seven,

[00:27:42] mostly to try to get out.

[00:27:44] It's crazy.

[00:27:44] And it just like fitting duck.

[00:27:46] They didn't have a basketball hoop, which was cool.

[00:27:49] I'd like to play basketball.

[00:27:50] The fact that they don't and I know other people on the podcast that I've heard of talk

[00:27:54] about this.

[00:27:54] So like in a hospital, a physical hospital, they have a cardiac wing.

[00:27:58] They have a respiratory wing.

[00:27:59] They have, you know, and not here.

[00:28:02] They just bunch everyone together.

[00:28:05] I had a chair thrown on my head by another patient was told lots of stories about the

[00:28:10] US government by various patients.

[00:28:13] Yeah, no separation of symptoms at all.

[00:28:17] And for someone who has anxiety problems to be put with an extremely volatile, unpredictable

[00:28:22] human being, not the best pairing, but you know, oh, and the on site psychiatrist, her,

[00:28:31] I guess, response to my face and my situation was diagnosing me with phantom limb syndrome

[00:28:39] in my face.

[00:28:40] So what if arm had faith?

[00:28:42] I would have faith had arm basically.

[00:28:44] Well, but I mean, when you don't have an arm and that you have that condition, it's still

[00:28:48] it is a legitimate pain that you have.

[00:28:50] No, no, for sure.

[00:28:51] Also have never had a procedure there.

[00:28:54] I've never had trauma.

[00:28:55] Yeah, she's just trying to fucking do whatever.

[00:28:58] So that was upsetting.

[00:29:00] So I'm given actually a medication, an SNRI, which I'd only been given SSRIs up until

[00:29:09] that point.

[00:29:09] The SNRI actually does help with the pain a little bit.

[00:29:12] Doesn't go away, but it does help a little bit.

[00:29:15] The other side effects of the like serotonin part of it don't mix well with me.

[00:29:20] SSRIs don't mix well with me in general, but whatever the end.

[00:29:25] What's an example of an SNRI that people might be familiar with?

[00:29:29] I think Effexor, Cymbalta, a lot of people with like neuropathies will get an SNRI.

[00:29:34] So it's serotonin, norepinephrine, norepinephrine.

[00:29:37] That's the end.

[00:29:39] How long does it take for you to figure out exactly what was happening?

[00:29:43] From there, I was put with like a clinic to follow up with because you can't get out

[00:29:48] of the ward without having whatever, but things set up, you know, and I see a psychiatric nurse

[00:29:53] practitioner who's asking me, because I'm still presenting pretty well, not symptomatic

[00:30:00] in any kind of way to warrant being in a psych ward.

[00:30:03] And she's kind of like, why were you there in the first place?

[00:30:06] I'm like, yeah, just pain.

[00:30:09] And then she follows up and is like, hey, so my mom had unexplained face pain for a

[00:30:16] really long time and you should look up something called trigeminal neuralgia.

[00:30:21] And I'm like, hmm, never heard of that before.

[00:30:23] Can't spell it, but we'll definitely look it up.

[00:30:27] I start looking at these symptoms.

[00:30:29] Check, check, check, check.

[00:30:31] And I'm like, is this?

[00:30:34] Yeah.

[00:30:34] Does that feel good in a way?

[00:30:35] That must feel good to have a name to it.

[00:30:37] You know, it did until I saw the nickname, the suicide disease.

[00:30:42] Wow.

[00:30:43] I am not often surprised when I talk to people.

[00:30:47] I just nothing really.

[00:30:48] Wow.

[00:30:49] We're not the same person.

[00:30:50] We've established that if it were me and I don't know, because I'd have to go through it.

[00:30:55] I would be like everybody in my life.

[00:30:58] I'm visiting all you motherfuckers and I'm saying, fuck you.

[00:31:02] I probably saw like 35 doctors and especially my therapist who I dropped.

[00:31:07] Obviously.

[00:31:08] Doesn't it also make you think there are people going through all kinds of things?

[00:31:11] They don't have a name for yet.

[00:31:12] We haven't figured out what it is yet, but it doesn't mean they're not in pain.

[00:31:16] The suicide disease is what it's called.

[00:31:19] Yeah, that's the nickname.

[00:31:20] Let's say for example, 15 years ago, they just didn't know what it was, but people got it.

[00:31:24] Those people died, whether it was by suicide or other things and no one believed them.

[00:31:29] 100%.

[00:31:30] No.

[00:31:30] And right now it's happening all over.

[00:31:32] And especially you think about our air, our soil, our water, all kinds of other things.

[00:31:37] People are not, they're getting sick.

[00:31:39] I mean, COVID too, any kind of long COVID like that is the epitome of science can't

[00:31:44] catch up quickly enough and the gas lighting is what replaces science.

[00:31:49] That shit kills people.

[00:31:50] I mean, that's like the nail in the coffin, if you will.

[00:31:53] For sure.

[00:31:54] So when you learn of this, what do you do to deal with this condition?

[00:31:58] So I am told to go to neurosurgeon actually immediately, which I do.

[00:32:03] What's funny is like the neurosurgeon was the easiest appointment to get out of all of them.

[00:32:07] Like in terms of also American healthcare waiting six to eight months to have an

[00:32:12] appointment with a competent individual, like even in ENT these days.

[00:32:16] Yeah.

[00:32:17] I see a trigeminal neuralgia neurosurgeon.

[00:32:20] He takes an MRI of my brain, sees a compression of my trigeminal nerve,

[00:32:28] a vein is kind of like circling that nerve.

[00:32:30] So essentially the way your cranial nerves work is you get a pain signal,

[00:32:35] like I'll pinch my face.

[00:32:36] It'll send a signal to the nerve.

[00:32:38] It'll process, give it to the brain.

[00:32:40] The brain understands, goes back to the nerve.

[00:32:43] My trigeminal nerve had a stimuli on it.

[00:32:46] So it was receiving signals as if I was being stabbed in the face without a stimuli.

[00:32:52] And that was being sent to the brain.

[00:32:54] So this was what was theorized, what was happening.

[00:32:56] Because they see the compression, but even if you see a compression,

[00:33:00] nothing's a hundred percent, blah, blah, blah.

[00:33:02] But I was given pretty high numbers in terms of like the likelihood that that was

[00:33:07] the cause of my pain.

[00:33:09] And the options for people with this are very intense medications for epilepsy to stop the

[00:33:16] signaling.

[00:33:16] But when you don't have overactive signaling, those medications basically zonk you out,

[00:33:22] obviously, because you're dampening.

[00:33:23] There's like a flickering light in your house and you turn off the electricity as opposed

[00:33:27] to changing that light bulb.

[00:33:28] But the equivalent of changing the light bulb is neurosurgery.

[00:33:32] Brain surgery.

[00:33:32] Yep.

[00:33:33] You have to wrap the nerve or move the vein or the artery, the offending vessel, they

[00:33:38] say, away from the nerve that stops the signaling and is supposed to, for a lot of people, makes

[00:33:45] them be pain-free.

[00:33:47] Did you have the surgery?

[00:33:48] I did.

[00:33:49] When?

[00:33:50] July 2023.

[00:33:51] They're literally operating on your brain?

[00:33:54] Yep.

[00:33:54] I had a craniotomy, intubated the whole nine.

[00:33:58] I'd never had a surgery.

[00:33:59] This is my first surgery, this brain surgery.

[00:34:01] So let's go.

[00:34:01] Go big or go home.

[00:34:02] It's what I always said.

[00:34:03] I'm nervous for the surgery, but more so excited.

[00:34:08] The surgeon was extremely kind of flippant about the potential side effects of the surgery,

[00:34:14] saying that they never happen and that the likelihood of success for me was very high.

[00:34:19] I saw three different surgeons.

[00:34:21] One said, your symptoms aren't super classic trigeminal neuralgia.

[00:34:25] I wouldn't give you the surgery, but I also don't know what to tell you to do next.

[00:34:29] And then the other two were like, yeah, I can get you in next week, basically.

[00:34:33] Surgeons love to cut.

[00:34:34] I also learned that.

[00:34:35] But I mean, I had the MRI.

[00:34:37] I had the evidence.

[00:34:38] And every doctor I went to after I got that MRI was kind of like, if you don't get the

[00:34:42] surgery, we can't help you.

[00:34:44] Wow.

[00:34:44] That was the choice.

[00:34:45] Made the decision, woke up from that surgery with double vision.

[00:34:50] The entire left side of my face was both numb and in pain at the same time.

[00:34:54] I had worse pain than I had before in that area.

[00:34:58] I had a burning tongue and burning mouth on the left side.

[00:35:02] I had a constant migraine behind this eye, and it felt like there was like a dumbbell

[00:35:06] on my eye constantly, like heaviness.

[00:35:09] It's hard to explain, but nerve pain is wild.

[00:35:12] The most amazing that like on a given day, I feel mostly pain free.

[00:35:17] How was all that operating so perfectly?

[00:35:19] I mean, your body doesn't want to be in pain.

[00:35:21] But with one little nerve thing, it can change your life dramatically.

[00:35:25] Like disable you for sure.

[00:35:27] Nerves in particular, because nerves control everything.

[00:35:30] Yeah.

[00:35:32] How long are you in the hospital for feeling that way?

[00:35:34] Two days.

[00:35:34] I was supposed to get the surgery, stay overnight and leave the next day.

[00:35:38] I was in the hospital for nine days.

[00:35:40] And when you leave, are you in pain still?

[00:35:42] Yes.

[00:35:43] Same.

[00:35:43] But there's nothing they can do besides give me basically opioids and tell me that with

[00:35:48] time, the nerve may heal.

[00:35:50] I'm not 100% sure because the surgery quote, quote, went so well.

[00:35:54] Wait, is it the surgeon saying that the surgery went so well?

[00:35:57] Yes.

[00:35:57] Okay.

[00:35:58] Okay.

[00:35:58] That's interesting.

[00:35:59] Hey, I thought 70% chance looking at the imaging that this would help you.

[00:36:03] And once I opened you up and I saw the level of compression and the amount of compression,

[00:36:08] I'm like putting that up to 90.

[00:36:10] So 90% chance that this was going to leave me pain free according to him.

[00:36:14] In addition to the pain, there's something about hope that is even maybe more important

[00:36:18] here to have that finally have an answer and I'm going to go through this big surgery

[00:36:23] and it didn't help.

[00:36:24] Nope.

[00:36:24] It made it so much worse.

[00:36:27] That to me is when I would think if there was a time when I thought you would try, that

[00:36:31] would be the time.

[00:36:32] I had a really great therapist at the time, which I got through a whole nother situation

[00:36:36] that we don't have time to talk about.

[00:36:38] But he was basically saying like, hey, I get actually if you feel this way.

[00:36:46] He was like one of the only people who I could be honest about like ideating all day, every

[00:36:51] day with.

[00:36:52] And he was like, if it doesn't go away, like they're saying it might, I think you should

[00:36:55] give it a shot if you can make it to let your body heal and see where you fall and

[00:37:00] see what other options you have.

[00:37:02] But like if in a year or so this isn't gone, I will help you try to figure out a tame,

[00:37:09] dignified way, whether it's overseas or not to like end your life.

[00:37:14] If there are any therapists listening, please.

[00:37:18] And you know what?

[00:37:18] Nothing I say will make a difference because you either get it or you don't.

[00:37:21] Because some of them are just so scared that God forbid the systemic thing where they might

[00:37:25] have their license revoked because God forbid.

[00:37:28] But here's the thing.

[00:37:29] I would have bet in that moment that feels really good.

[00:37:32] Right?

[00:37:32] Ironically, that makes me want to continue more.

[00:37:36] It's interesting that that's considered irony.

[00:37:38] But yes.

[00:37:39] Yes.

[00:37:39] Right.

[00:37:40] You cannot continue to like tell people no, no, but, but.

[00:37:46] That's not a way to communicate.

[00:37:47] It's completely not.

[00:37:50] It doesn't sound how it works.

[00:37:51] So to have somebody say, I get it.

[00:37:54] 100% understand that.

[00:37:55] It makes sense.

[00:37:56] Or like if I were in your position freaking sucks the worst, it's horrible.

[00:38:01] Like everyone who's attempted has reached a pain threshold, whether it's physical,

[00:38:06] mental, both again to actively want to die and put yourself in more pain to get rid of

[00:38:14] the pain that you're having unless you've been there.

[00:38:16] Like, I don't want to hear it.

[00:38:18] I think, I think there's few, if any exceptions to the fact that you don't try to end your

[00:38:25] life unless you're in a lot of pain.

[00:38:28] I think it's just that like full stop.

[00:38:30] Every system in your body is designed to go as long as possible.

[00:38:35] Like evolutionarily, you want to procreate and spread whatever genes as they may be or

[00:38:40] not.

[00:38:41] To have somebody, whether they're a professional or not validate that it's so big.

[00:38:48] Oh, for sure.

[00:38:49] I mean, it made all the difference.

[00:38:51] And at the time, like my family issues were still going on after the surgery and they

[00:38:55] were so intense.

[00:38:57] People moved out of the house because it was fighting of I made the wrong decision and

[00:39:02] my fault.

[00:39:02] Like just a lot of that, which was likely due to the high levels of stress that we all

[00:39:08] felt after the surgery and not being able to deal with it.

[00:39:11] Again, is it an excuse?

[00:39:13] No, but like all of that on top of each other was just like, and other stuff.

[00:39:18] I had a romantic situation at the time that like went really bad, like all leading up

[00:39:23] to this surgery.

[00:39:25] Yeah, I really didn't know what was going to happen the next year.

[00:39:28] But if there's one thing about me, I definitely have a high pain tolerance.

[00:39:33] Yeah, that was almost a year ago now.

[00:39:35] I kept going.

[00:39:36] Some things improved.

[00:39:37] You can see I'm not wearing an eye patch, but other things have gotten worse or changed

[00:39:44] or been added.

[00:39:45] I have breathing trouble now.

[00:39:47] Keep losing my breath, especially when I talk a lot.

[00:39:50] Burning tongue, which is the mouth guard situation.

[00:39:54] That's for a burning tongue?

[00:39:56] Yeah.

[00:39:56] So whatever, when I put it in for whatever reason, my tongue can't feel like when I'm

[00:40:02] eating also, it's better.

[00:40:03] It can't like feel a stimulus and burn at the same time.

[00:40:08] So as long as there's something on it, I chew gum, mince, coffee, all that stuff.

[00:40:13] Do you have the pain above your that same pain, that original pain?

[00:40:17] Yeah, it comes in and out for sure.

[00:40:19] It's not as constant, I will say.

[00:40:21] But I also started getting physical therapy after the surgery, along with my other 25

[00:40:26] appointments per week.

[00:40:28] That doctor had actually told me that he wished he saw me prior to surgery because he sees

[00:40:34] a lot of patients with localized mouth pain that results from, I'm a big jaw clincher

[00:40:41] and grinder.

[00:40:42] I always have been, anxiety, from inflamed muscles here and here in the jaw that presses

[00:40:48] on a nerve and that referred pain goes there.

[00:40:51] Well, hang on.

[00:40:52] If he's right, then the other diagnosis is not right?

[00:40:54] Yep.

[00:40:55] So we don't know.

[00:40:56] So you're in pain most days?

[00:40:58] Every day, all day.

[00:41:00] How do you go audition later?

[00:41:02] Honestly, I told myself I wouldn't get emotional, but if I do, sorry, I think like for example,

[00:41:09] if I start having like a breathing episode later, like I just won't audition, but my

[00:41:13] agents have been so obviously understanding and kind about this and they still send me

[00:41:19] things that they think I'd be good for.

[00:41:20] But if I don't keep pursuing, especially that, which is like my love in my life, like

[00:41:27] something that I just, besides the people, I'm so passionate about it, obsessed, for

[00:41:32] lack of a better word with it.

[00:41:34] If I don't have a big dream like that, there's no point for me.

[00:41:39] I just can't, there's no justification.

[00:41:41] I can't sit in it.

[00:41:43] It makes it worse.

[00:41:44] I can't.

[00:41:44] I'm hoping, like I have some promising-ish appointments coming up.

[00:41:50] I'm hoping this gets to a point where it's really manageable.

[00:41:54] Right now, you would not consider it manageable?

[00:41:56] No.

[00:41:57] I definitely cry two to three times a day.

[00:41:59] This is my first, so here we are.

[00:42:02] This might be a little weird, but I'm not being weird about it.

[00:42:05] How do you have a romantic relationship?

[00:42:06] Oh God, what a great question.

[00:42:08] What a great question.

[00:42:10] I don't know.

[00:42:10] I am with someone now who I actually had told that I couldn't be in a relationship with

[00:42:17] when I first met them because of everything I was going through.

[00:42:20] I was like, I can't show up for you.

[00:42:22] I can't show up for myself.

[00:42:23] But he sees who I am under everything.

[00:42:27] I have a lot of personality in general, so this is very muted for me.

[00:42:31] He says, I've only known you while you've been in this state, and I love you this way.

[00:42:38] I want you to be happy, so I hope that this goes away or we get to a place and I want

[00:42:43] to help.

[00:42:43] But it doesn't affect me.

[00:42:46] It does affect me, but I'm not experiencing the pain like you are.

[00:42:50] I tend to hide it still.

[00:42:51] I try to put on a happy face.

[00:42:53] I try to be as normal as possible because that also helps me.

[00:42:58] But I talk to him about it every day.

[00:43:01] We talk about which doctors I have more than where we're going out to eat.

[00:43:05] And this is where I'll get really upset because there is so much guilt around that.

[00:43:10] Every time I try to go down the road of like, hey, do you still want to do this?

[00:43:15] We can always circle back to this meeting, put a pin in it, and we'll circle back when

[00:43:19] hopefully things are more manageable for me.

[00:43:21] And he gets really upset and says, that's my decision, not yours.

[00:43:25] And it's not fair.

[00:43:27] What's his decision?

[00:43:28] Whether he wants to be in this situation or not.

[00:43:31] Oh, you're giving him an out and he's like, that's not your call.

[00:43:36] So you have to cancel a lot of appointments.

[00:43:38] Yep.

[00:43:38] I leave early.

[00:43:40] I cancel.

[00:43:41] Don't answer calls.

[00:43:43] In my experience, our culture really doesn't look highly on people who cancel shit a lot,

[00:43:47] postpone shit a lot.

[00:43:49] And I fucking hate that because you're not, yeah, for obvious reasons.

[00:43:52] I just think that's something people don't think about much.

[00:43:54] And I don't think they can unless they go through it.

[00:43:56] I mean, and I can't blame anybody because I didn't think about it prior to this.

[00:44:02] Constant pain in any form is just unfathomable, luckily, unless you've experienced it.

[00:44:11] You can't really know how it enters every little crevice of your life in the most

[00:44:17] subtle and dramatic ways.

[00:44:19] It's everything.

[00:44:21] And that's the spiral.

[00:44:22] We can go circling back again, spiraling back to when I saw it going like this, my attempt.

[00:44:30] It's happening right now.

[00:44:32] For me, it's clear when my world starts getting smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller.

[00:44:38] That is relationships, that is activities, that is a bunch of things.

[00:44:42] And for me, I'm like, I started drinking a lot.

[00:44:45] I'm like, yeah, why wouldn't you?

[00:44:47] And you know what people say who don't get it, all the fucking dumb platitudes or the

[00:44:51] bullshit.

[00:44:52] And you seem like you're, from what you shared, much nicer to people about it than I am.

[00:44:57] I got to the point where I'm like, you need to leave me the fuck alone if you're going

[00:45:00] to say shit like that.

[00:45:01] I'm not nice about it.

[00:45:03] And my thing was an ongoing, got much better.

[00:45:07] We thought it was autoimmune.

[00:45:08] Who the fuck knows?

[00:45:09] If you can't handle it, you need to walk away.

[00:45:11] But that doesn't cultivate relationships.

[00:45:14] That doesn't make you popular in your community.

[00:45:16] I was just exceptionally like, don't fucking do that.

[00:45:20] But there's a cost to that too, obviously.

[00:45:22] So if I don't go through all that, maybe I never even start this podcast.

[00:45:25] It's not to say, hey, there's going to be a Disney blue ribbon at the end of this shit

[00:45:30] and everything's going to be good.

[00:45:31] No, your therapist might be right.

[00:45:32] You might be trying to end your life in six months.

[00:45:35] Oh, for sure.

[00:45:36] Yeah.

[00:45:36] And again, thinking about it makes me upset because I don't want to die.

[00:45:39] I want to live and I can't live like this.

[00:45:42] I would have to mourn the loss of my own life.

[00:45:44] Like I already am to some extent.

[00:45:46] And when I get in those moods where I just can't call another doctor and I can't be told

[00:45:52] try Xanax again, I just can't.

[00:45:54] Then I'm cut.

[00:45:56] I don't even want to go across the country to this specialist or do this thing because

[00:46:00] I can't even deal with...

[00:46:02] I'm on the phone probably three to four hours a day.

[00:46:06] Luckily, I got a job.

[00:46:08] I also do web design and development.

[00:46:11] So I got hired full time to do that and got better health insurance and I get acting.

[00:46:15] But luckily it's from home and I'm also a really quick worker so I can handle the job.

[00:46:20] And then my second job, which is handling the medical stuff.

[00:46:25] But it's just so fucking depressing.

[00:46:28] And like you said, what do you talk about with a partner or with a friend?

[00:46:32] How are you?

[00:46:33] Oh, you know, feeling like I'm drowning in my own body.

[00:46:36] Or like, how are you?

[00:46:37] Oh, you know, can't breathe, but it's fine.

[00:46:40] My tongue is gonna...

[00:46:41] I want to rip it out of my face.

[00:46:42] I'm trying my best.

[00:46:44] No one ever said I didn't try.

[00:46:46] That's for sure.

[00:46:48] How many people know about your attempt?

[00:46:49] Probably eight.

[00:46:51] I mean, so there were some people you actively told?

[00:46:54] Yes.

[00:46:54] I have a lot of very close friends.

[00:46:57] I wouldn't probably be here also if it weren't for them.

[00:46:59] And my boyfriend and my brother, they actually at one point with that other therapist when I was

[00:47:05] like, no, let's do assisted suicide now.

[00:47:08] Can we start looking into it?

[00:47:09] I just need to know there's a way out.

[00:47:10] We all got on a group Zoom with the therapist, all my friends and me and my brother.

[00:47:16] And he was like, so I just want to let you know this is a roundtable to discuss euthanasia

[00:47:21] to kind of just gauge everyone's opinion about it, which I thought was also a really cool thing

[00:47:26] to do.

[00:47:27] It was genuinely like this is where she's at.

[00:47:29] If you want her to stay alive for you, essentially, you need to know what that means in terms of

[00:47:35] taking on the level of support that she might need during this time, like asking every day

[00:47:40] how the doctor is driving with me to doctor, you know, like you need to put in the work.

[00:47:44] And I actually this is something that if anyone is listening who has a loved one struggling

[00:47:50] with suicide or any kind of situation, really?

[00:47:54] Yeah.

[00:47:55] Don't want to hear anymore.

[00:47:57] I had a friend talk to me about it and what I'm going through, and she thanked me for

[00:48:03] being like she was like, I just want to say like all the hard work you're doing.

[00:48:07] Thank you.

[00:48:08] Which was so helpful for me.

[00:48:10] And I think that's such a great response because it's assuming the responsibility for wanting

[00:48:17] that other person to be there and it's not guilting them.

[00:48:20] And it's saying like, I know you're doing this for me, and it means so much to me.

[00:48:24] I think that's just such a beautiful, it was such a beautiful, impactful conversation.

[00:48:29] Yeah, probably not super common.

[00:48:31] No, I think it's like really what's going on underneath all of the fear and the bullshitting

[00:48:37] when you usually talk about this stuff.

[00:48:38] It's one person wants the other person to be here and is scared and one person isn't

[00:48:42] so much pain.

[00:48:43] That dynamic is really like I'm alive for you.

[00:48:46] Like, do you realize that?

[00:48:47] I don't want to be here.

[00:48:48] These questions around wishing that day had turned out differently.

[00:48:53] I imagine from what you shared, sometimes you feel that way because you are, what would

[00:48:57] you say?

[00:48:58] Not actively suicidal, but you're on that spectrum.

[00:49:01] You're in that space.

[00:49:03] So do you think about that like, fuck, I just wish that I had to down the pills and my mother

[00:49:07] didn't call or I didn't answer and I went to sleep and I never woke up.

[00:49:10] Yes and no.

[00:49:11] Like you said, I think it waxes and wanes.

[00:49:14] If I get a really hopeful message from a doctor, I'm like, thank God I didn't do anything and

[00:49:19] it didn't work.

[00:49:20] But then if I go to another doctor and they say like, then I'm like, I wouldn't have had

[00:49:26] to be here if I weren't here.

[00:49:29] You know, it really depends on what's happening.

[00:49:32] Did you struggle with envy?

[00:49:33] Uh, do I struggle with envy?

[00:49:35] Oh, for sure.

[00:49:36] Yeah, this fucking actress is getting a job.

[00:49:38] I could have fucking crushed that role and I don't get to do what I do.

[00:49:41] And that fucking bitch, I'm not saying you'd use those words like it's just unfair.

[00:49:45] All of it is truly unfair.

[00:49:46] It's bullshit.

[00:49:48] I had booked my first feature film that same year.

[00:49:52] I had been being called in for regular roles on very recognizable series and all done.

[00:50:00] But honestly, like all that, I'm in such like a bad physical place that none of that even

[00:50:07] matters.

[00:50:08] If I could never do that again and I was told I would be pain free and feel like a human

[00:50:13] when I woke up every day, I would be, I wouldn't even blink before I said yes.

[00:50:17] Like the quality of life is just so low in an ideal world.

[00:50:20] I can do both, you know?

[00:50:22] Sure.

[00:50:23] So how many people know that we're talking?

[00:50:26] I told one person I'm doing this.

[00:50:28] Oh, you did?

[00:50:29] Yes, one.

[00:50:30] And it's not my boyfriend who is inside right now.

[00:50:33] This is his house.

[00:50:34] Yeah.

[00:50:34] I only told one friend.

[00:50:36] What up, Andrea?

[00:50:37] She's listening.

[00:50:38] Shout out to Andrea, Kelly's friend.

[00:50:42] Like, comment, subscribe.

[00:50:44] So that's funny.

[00:50:45] Well, just because she knows you're doing this doesn't mean you're going to say,

[00:50:47] hey, the episode is out.

[00:50:48] Listen, no, and it doesn't matter to me.

[00:50:50] I mean, I just, it's interesting because sometimes people get to hear you in a way that

[00:50:54] they haven't gotten to hear you because you probably haven't had a lot of extended

[00:50:58] conversations like this.

[00:50:59] Yeah.

[00:51:00] Or with somebody who's so like not scared to ask about the details and about everything

[00:51:08] because when you have a conversation, I feel like about this topic, it's so avoiding certain

[00:51:14] things rather than actually trying to understand the truth.

[00:51:18] The primary goal is the most amount of comfort.

[00:51:21] A lot of the time, the primary goal isn't to actually find out the truth.

[00:51:25] If your pain does not go away, how much time are we talking about?

[00:51:28] Do you have any idea?

[00:51:29] Can you make it a couple years?

[00:51:31] Can you make it 10 years?

[00:51:32] For me, for everybody.

[00:51:34] I keep thinking like I have not had one original experience.

[00:51:37] I'm sure there's someone somewhere in the world who has had literally almost an identical

[00:51:42] experience to me.

[00:51:43] It really depends on hope.

[00:51:44] It depends on what doctors say and what my options are.

[00:51:47] Like surgery again is on the table, pun intended.

[00:51:51] I think I'll try most things.

[00:51:54] The thing is anything can make it worse also.

[00:51:56] But I think past the threshold of like worse than this is still just extremely bad.

[00:52:03] Like we're moving laterally almost.

[00:52:05] Again, I don't want to die.

[00:52:06] I just want to live.

[00:52:08] Yeah.

[00:52:09] Are there any myths around this stuff?

[00:52:10] I know there are myths around this stuff.

[00:52:12] But then some of them sort of came up as we talked organically.

[00:52:15] But are there any other things related to this that are kind of bullshit that you want

[00:52:18] to bring up?

[00:52:20] Yeah, I've heard this said before and it's probably one of the number one myths, but

[00:52:24] that you're the kid dressed in all black in the corner and like the typical like who is

[00:52:30] suicidal and who isn't.

[00:52:32] It could be the happiest person in the room.

[00:52:34] It can be anybody or who's in pain, who isn't.

[00:52:39] One thing I wanted to like bring to the podcast is the physical pain portion of how much it's

[00:52:46] affected me.

[00:52:47] When people say sometimes because I said this a lot, that mental pain is worse than physical

[00:52:52] pain.

[00:52:54] Maybe some is.

[00:52:56] Again, it's not a trauma circus contest.

[00:52:59] They're both fucking bad.

[00:53:01] Like really, really bad.

[00:53:02] Right, right.

[00:53:04] Like you can't have a certain level of physical without having the mental.

[00:53:07] And also the myth that people who commit suicide want to die are all people.

[00:53:12] I think some probably do.

[00:53:14] I can't speak for that because that's not my experience.

[00:53:17] Finding out the real reason why somebody doesn't want to be here, the actual like bare

[00:53:23] bones when you keep Socrates asking, I think that's who it was.

[00:53:26] Why, why, why, why, why?

[00:53:27] And you get to that core.

[00:53:29] How often do you want to take a knife and cut your tongue out or bash or stick it in

[00:53:33] the back of your head to get rid of the nerve or like just cut out the pain?

[00:53:38] I know you can't.

[00:53:39] You'll just cause a lot of bleeding and it won't go away.

[00:53:40] But don't you want to just take fucking sharp scissors and cut your tongue off when it's

[00:53:44] burning?

[00:53:44] Oh, I hit my head and my boyfriend gets mad at me.

[00:53:47] I take my tongue out and I just like get like a sharp object or something and I start scraping

[00:53:54] it when my breathing really acts up.

[00:53:56] I'll start like wheezing on purpose, not self-harm, but it's you can't escape it.

[00:54:02] So you're just like, oh, God, like when you experience or I don't know if you still are

[00:54:07] your physical symptoms.

[00:54:08] I'm sure there was some of that going on.

[00:54:11] Oh, I would want to take a fucking knife and shove it in my gut because I feel like that

[00:54:17] is kind of the center of it and just fucking cut it all out.

[00:54:20] You're your own enemy in that situation to your body.

[00:54:23] One thing that helps a little bit is like a little bit like how much could help.

[00:54:27] But you know how like everybody these days is like mind, body, like let's feel our breath

[00:54:34] and our body.

[00:54:34] And for me, my mindset I'm trying to have is I'm an electric meat sack and I'm a soul living

[00:54:41] in said sack.

[00:54:43] And the sack isn't haywired and I'm still in there, like hiding in the center of it.

[00:54:49] It's like being in a house fire and I'm like in the middle waiting for the fireman to pose

[00:54:54] it so that I can exit.

[00:54:56] I don't know anyone else dealing with this.

[00:54:58] Pink and purple pill.

[00:54:59] Oh, yeah.

[00:55:00] Where you take it and you don't feel any pain and no one knows it's a suicide.

[00:55:04] Those are just the conditions I created.

[00:55:06] When I take it, would I have like a brief respite?

[00:55:09] How long do you want?

[00:55:10] An hour.

[00:55:11] Maybe I don't because then I might-

[00:55:14] Not want to die.

[00:55:15] Bad, right?

[00:55:16] Because I'll feel better and I'll be like, I don't want to die anymore, but I already

[00:55:19] took the pill.

[00:55:19] Well, now we can magically because all of this is make believe anyway, you can regurgitate it.

[00:55:23] Oh, I can?

[00:55:25] Sure.

[00:55:25] Oh my God, I take it right now.

[00:55:27] But you only have an hour.

[00:55:28] I'm not giving you a day because that defeats kind of the purpose.

[00:55:30] So you take the pill, you have an hour, you can change your mind.

[00:55:35] You don't even have to throw it up.

[00:55:37] It's magic.

[00:55:38] Yeah.

[00:55:38] No, I'm keeping it.

[00:55:40] That's true because then if I only get one, then-

[00:55:42] Now you're really asking for a lot, Kelly.

[00:55:44] You want more than one pink and purple pill?

[00:55:47] They're designed for...

[00:55:51] I'm an actor.

[00:55:52] I live in fake spaces, so I need the details of this.

[00:55:56] Now you're going to want it to be a different fucking color.

[00:55:59] Oh, can we make it lime green and purple?

[00:56:02] No.

[00:56:03] What about white and orange?

[00:56:06] No.

[00:56:06] Perfect to match me.

[00:56:07] I'm white and orange for sure.

[00:56:09] I don't think I would take it yet, but I would take it once I see the appropriate amount of

[00:56:17] doctors.

[00:56:19] And who knows?

[00:56:20] Maybe all of this physical symptoms I'm having will lead to that, honestly.

[00:56:24] I have some days where the breathing is so bad that I'm like, is it time?

[00:56:29] Do you have the physical symptoms have gotten so bad or so

[00:56:32] chronic, is it hard to imagine feeling completely healthy?

[00:56:36] Yes.

[00:56:37] Yeah.

[00:56:38] What's crazy, at least with my face, is that I have two sides.

[00:56:42] So this side is perfect.

[00:56:44] I have no...

[00:56:45] I know what this feels like.

[00:56:47] So I kind of always a little bit remember.

[00:56:49] So it's like fandom of the opera.

[00:56:52] I kind of always remember a little bit because of this side, but I don't really remember anymore

[00:56:58] what it feels like to breathe normally for a full day.

[00:57:02] But you know what?

[00:57:03] Maybe next week a doctor will be like, this is it.

[00:57:07] Or maybe AI, right?

[00:57:09] God bless.

[00:57:10] Please, Daddy Elon, I'm begging you.

[00:57:12] Stop going to space and start researching body for fuck's sake.

[00:57:17] I don't know.

[00:57:18] Like maybe, maybe.

[00:57:20] Like do I think it's likely at this point?

[00:57:22] No.

[00:57:23] But also I haven't done a lot of things other people have done for this yet, which are like

[00:57:28] a little more destructive.

[00:57:30] Who knows?

[00:57:31] Not me.

[00:57:32] That's for sure.

[00:57:33] Is that the memoir title?

[00:57:35] That's what I want on my tombstone.

[00:57:36] Who knows?

[00:57:37] Not me.

[00:57:38] Oh, so we're extending this to memoir and tombstone.

[00:57:41] Okay.

[00:57:42] What else would you like to share with me and the audience, whoever they are, wherever

[00:57:47] they are around the world, including the former Yugoslavia, maybe?

[00:57:51] Yeah.

[00:57:51] Hi, everybody.

[00:57:53] Hope you're doing well over there.

[00:57:55] Liat.

[00:57:57] Wadding with your heels on the ground.

[00:58:00] If you know, you know.

[00:58:01] I would say if you are going through any situation where you feel like you're in constant pain,

[00:58:09] literally all of your waking moments, you are not alone.

[00:58:14] There is a random chick in New York who is waking up with you and going through the day

[00:58:21] with you, not knowing if things are going to get better.

[00:58:25] Yeah, that's all I have to say.

[00:58:27] Like this podcast and you taking the time to do this.

[00:58:30] Thank you so much.

[00:58:31] It has made me feel so much less alone.

[00:58:34] I still believe I'm actually doing it, but I'm so happy, especially like if somebody's

[00:58:41] like suicidal ideations are based in physical pain, like I would love for them to know that

[00:58:47] that's normal and warranted.

[00:58:49] There's others and I'm one of them.

[00:58:51] So good luck.

[00:58:52] And if you find the magic pill, please contact you to contact me.

[00:58:57] We'll work it out.

[00:58:58] All right.

[00:58:59] Go back to our lives.

[00:59:00] Thank you very much for talking, Kelly.

[00:59:02] You too.

[00:59:03] Thanks so much.

[00:59:04] This was a pleasure and I'll continue to listen for sure.

[00:59:07] Please keep going.

[00:59:08] All right.

[00:59:12] As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support.

[00:59:15] And special thanks to Kelly in New Jersey.

[00:59:19] Thank you, Kelly.

[00:59:20] If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:59:23] Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or Twitter slash acts at suicide noted.

[00:59:28] Check the show notes to learn more about the podcast, including our growing membership.

[00:59:33] And if you've got a moment rate and review this podcast, it really helps in so many ways.

[00:59:38] And that is all for episode number 215.

[00:59:41] Stay strong.

[00:59:42] Do the best you can.

[00:59:44] I'll talk to you soon.