[00:00:00] So it's been happening for quite a time since my childhood. You know, now looking back, I think, yeah, like in my childhood, yes, I also had those thoughts, but not to the extreme. Like I would say that I always had hope, but this is what I don't have right now.
[00:00:40] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors and ideators so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough, not nearly enough. And when we do, when we talk about it, when we engage with people in pain, most of us are not very good at it. And I am being very kind when I say that because in reality, most of us suck at it.
[00:01:08] So one of my goals with this podcast and some other related projects is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with survivors in large part to help more people in more places, hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone. Now, if you're an attempt survivor, ideator, you'd like to talk, I'd love to talk with you. Please reach out. Hello, it's suicidenoted.com.
[00:01:30] If you are curious about how I'm leveraging or using these skills I've attained over these years, I've created something called The Missing Record. You can learn more about that at themissingrecord.com. It may not be for you, but perhaps for someone you know and that helps fund this work and this work needs funding, especially if we want to expand it into new areas, reach more people, do some artistic initiatives that we have. So check it out if you'd like. No pressure. All good. Appreciate you here either way.
[00:02:00] Finally, we're talking about suicide here on the Suicide Noted Podcast, like we have been doing for six and a half years now. My guests and I do not hold back, so please take that into account before you listen or as you listen. There is a pause button, but I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn. Today, I am talking with Katya. Katya lives in Russia and she is a suicide attempt survivor. Katya. Hi, Sean.
[00:02:28] So Katya lives in Russia. Russia. The former USSR. Yes, exactly. The country when I was growing up, we were taught to hate. I hope that you don't hate it now. I don't know that much about Russia, but everyone I've met, and it's only been a few, have been very kind, so I have no reason to hate it. How old are you? I'm 40. All right. So maybe you caught the tail end of it. Then there was all sorts of other stuff that happened, but that's not really why we're here. So how are you doing?
[00:02:56] I never asked this question. How are you? Well, I actually don't really like this question. If you don't want to answer it, don't. In fact, you don't have to answer anything I ask, but I hope some stuff comes up. Yeah. I appreciate you talking with me. Yeah. It's good to talk with you and see you, finally, because I'm hearing your voice, but, you know. How did you find this podcast? I've been having some suicidal thoughts for quite a time, and I just have a person who's been supporting me in this.
[00:03:26] And one day she just asked me, like, oh, would you like maybe to listen to some podcasts on this topic? And I said, oh, why not? And she said, okay, I'm going to make some research for you. And then she sent me a list of different podcasts. And then she said, but I think these two are the best ones. Was I one of them? Yes. Who's the other one? Now I'm envious. Doesn't matter. You don't remember because you didn't listen to it.
[00:03:55] No, I listened to one episode. That's what happens. I won. Just say it. I'm the winner. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. It's not a good fit for everybody, but for the right people, it's the right fit. And hopefully it seems like you wouldn't have reached out if you didn't trust me, which I really appreciate. I'm all the way in Mexico. You're in Russia. Technology allows us to have a conversation, even see each other, which is cool. Yeah. That's amazing. I mean. I'm fascinated to meet new people from different countries. Yeah. What part you want to reveal or share with me?
[00:04:24] And remember, I'm going to share this link with you so you can take things out that you say. But I'm so, you know, if it's too personal, but I'm curious, what part of Russia are you in? It's the eastern part. Oh my God. You like Siberia? Yeah. Siberia. Oh, wait a second. So I talked to one other person, Roman, a while ago in Russia. I listened to that. He was in Moscow. You or not? No, I'm not. Siberia. Siberia, I don't know much about. I know it's a huge, huge area.
[00:04:53] And from what I know, I'm sure it varies because it is so big in terms of climate and other things. But I just have this image, which is probably not accurate, of it being rather cold. It's cold during winter. But during the summer, we have normal summer, at least for a month. At least for a month. Okay. And are you in a big city? Yeah, it's like a capital of a region. Okay. So how many people are we talking about? 300,000.
[00:05:20] Oh, that's a, that's a, that's a, I thought you were going to be like 43 people. So 300,000 people. So you've got people around you for better or worse. And you have at least one friend who pointed you in the right direction with this podcast because you have been having suicidal thoughts. Exactly. Have you ever tried to end your life? No. Yeah. So I am not, I've never attempted suicide, but I'm definitely a chronic ideator. Chronic, the CI. I think there's a lot more people like that than we think. Yeah. Because we don't talk.
[00:05:49] But I kind of feel that maybe this time I came pretty close. At least it feels like that. If we, if you had found this podcast in like 2021 or 2022 and reached out, I would have asked you if you had attempted and you would have said no. And I would have said, this isn't the right podcast for you. But at some point I started adding ideators in the last few years. And I'm glad I did. And you said you come more recently.
[00:06:16] You felt like it was getting, I might not use your exact words, but you're getting closer. Yes. I feel that I kind of reached my limits. This was when, like how recently are we talking about? When? Well, I think during the last 10 months. In the last 10 months, I set up a certain date for myself twice. The third time right now as well. You have a date? I have a date. If you have a date in this context, like, so you had two dates for one reason or another,
[00:06:46] and we will, if you'd like, I'd like to hear more about them. Is that chronic ideating or is that like one step further? I would say the same. Yeah, I would agree with that. How would you describe it? Or is there a word for that in Russian? Actually, it's really difficult for me to speak about my emotions in Russian. Oh, wow. Because this is what we don't usually do. It's kind of like a forbidden topic. Oh, just mental health in general. Yeah, mental health issues in general.
[00:07:14] And emotions in general. People don't really talk a lot about their emotions and pretty close to when it comes to the things that they're dealing with. And if they have some issues, like usually people keep them to themselves. They don't share much. And when it comes to mental health issues, still there is a huge stigma. Yeah. It's much less than it used to be before.
[00:07:39] And people are more open to speak about depression, maybe anxiety, OCD, PTSD, maybe a little bit more open. And then people say, oh, like I have appointments with a therapist to speak about it. Okay. And when it comes to something more serious, like schizophrenia, yeah, so people don't speak about it. So they certainly don't talk about the other S word. Yeah. Yeah. And this is something that's even forbidden by the religion.
[00:08:07] You know, people who committed suicide are even buried in a different heart out of the cemetery. Oh, they have their own piece of property specifically for people who ended their lives by suicide. Kind of. Well, it can't be kind of. It either is or it's not. Yeah. I think it's not that strict anymore, but this is how it used to be before. Like the cemetery used to be a part of church. Right. There was a stronger connection to the church. Yeah.
[00:08:35] And there was like a fence around the cemetery. And so people who committed a suicide was supposed to be buried outside that fence because, as it's said, it's not something that's approved by God. Right. So somebody who, let's say, killed people, right? Like they were a murderer. Could they be buried inside the fence? They can. Right. Somebody who repeatedly raped people. Can they be buried inside the fence? Yes. Mm-hmm.
[00:09:05] Somebody who tortured children. Could they be buried inside the fence? Yeah. Are there any other groups of people that are outside the fence? Well, I'm not sure. This is what I heard. I've heard since my childhood. Right. So this is what I was told. When I was a child, I used to go to church with my parents. And yeah, so that was one of the complications in the church. And just for context, this is like the 90s. Yeah. Early 90s. Right.
[00:09:33] So this is when the U.S., the Soviet Union was kind of just breaking up. Yes. A little chaotic. Like, well before Putin comes, which is a whole other thing. We're not here to talk about politics, but wow. And a lot of it was influenced by the church. The Russian Orthodoxy Church, I believe. Yeah. Orthodox. Is that what you practice? Do you believe? Well, I wouldn't call myself as a believer because I think I kind of lost my faith.
[00:10:00] But I definitely believe that there is a certain divine creature or soul. But sometimes I really doubt that it's a kind soul. I think it sounds like, and I want to hear more about it. You have very good reason to question if it's a kind divine. What's the word for suicide in Russian? There are two words. Suicide. Suicide. That sounds kind of similar. So you wouldn't, even in 2026, walking around your city in Siberia, you go to a cafe, get some coffee, maybe to a little bar. You wouldn't hear people talking about suicide.
[00:10:30] No. I mean, I guess you don't really know unless you're eavesdropping on every conversation, but it's not something people talk about, it sounds like. Yeah. No, it's not something that people talk about. And if it happens in a family, most of the time people prefer to hide it. Like they feel very ashamed to talk about it. Why do you think that is? Well, it's really hard to say. I think it's just because of all the assumptions that we have about it.
[00:10:57] Again, some things coming from the religion. And I don't know why, but it's considered like something inappropriate in the society. It sounds like. Like you're considered, you're considered as a weak person. A weak person. Yes. A weak person when, when you do it to yourself. When you do it to others though, you're a strong person. You didn't say that. I know. And according to this logic, it might be. I don't know.
[00:11:23] So when you say families keep it to themselves, does that also kind of mean like, we can only generalize. Every family is different, but like, we know this is a thing and we don't want others to know about it. Or is it also within the family? Let's just not, let's just not talk about it. Within the family, it's also sometimes something that family members don't speak about. I guess maybe it's a little bit of guilt as well, because there is a reason why someone
[00:11:49] commits a suicide and then you're questioning yourself, but what did you do wrong? Where was the mistake? If as a parent, you're, it's literally like genetic in some way sometimes. And then you start asking yourself, like, could I, could have I helped? You know, maybe I should have done something. And I think it's a, it's a lot of shame on the family too, because, uh, you know, you can be considered, uh, as a not good family by the society again, just because you didn't
[00:12:19] see the signs. You didn't, you didn't help that person. There's a lot of pressure there. I'm assuming Russians and Americans and Mexicans and all those are similar. Russians don't read minds, right? No. Okay. I just wanted to make sure so that I'm wondering if you were asking the questions, for example, like, I didn't see the signs. I wonder if I could have done more. Like, how would you know if you could do more if you're not talking about it? Do you mean like you're looking at somebody that looks sad, but then you don't ask, like, how would you, you see the disconnect? Yeah. It's a fair question.
[00:12:48] But you know, when something bad happens, you always start asking yourself, you know, what could I have done? And, and definitely it's not, it's not fair to yourself and you can't change anything in the past, but you want. Have you lost anybody to suicide that was close to you? No. Do you have a family? Right now I don't have my own family, but I have my parents and my sister. Do they know we're talking? No, they don't know.
[00:13:15] Do they know that Katya has been thinking about ending her life, especially in the last 10 months? They know. Really? But I think they don't take it seriously. Why is that? Because, you know, because I think this is the thing that I'm talking about a lot, because it's not like the first time. She's been there before. So it's been happening for quite a time since my childhood. You know, now looking back, I think, yeah, like in my childhood, yes, I also had those thoughts.
[00:13:45] Mm-hmm. But not to the extreme. Like I would say that I always had hope, but this is what I don't have right now. Yeah. It's when you reach like the last point or I don't know. That's, I would agree with you. By the way, when did you turn 40? In March. Tough birthday? Actually, I wanted to end my life on my birthday. Was that the first date or the second date? It was the second. When was the first one?
[00:14:11] The first one was on December 27th, 2025. People remember the dates. I remember. I do. I want to hear about those two. And then I want to go back to your childhood and your teens and your 20s just to get a sense of growing up. And you said you were thinking about it in different ways back then. So December 27th, 2025. 2025. Tell me like how specific was this? You have a date. What are you thinking about doing that day specifically? In as much detail as you want to share.
[00:14:37] I chose that date because it was the last date when I worked before going on vacation for New Year time. And I just wanted to die on that day because I knew that, okay, I don't need to go to my work next day or in a couple of days. And if I do it to myself or if I don't show up the next day at my work, nobody. Nobody's going to get worried. You know, I... That's very, very sweet of you. Vacation time. Yeah.
[00:15:05] Nobody can lose me, miss me, get worried and things like that. And I... And also, I just didn't want to move to another year. Oh, yeah. Like the calendar year. Just give me a little context here. What kind of work do you do? I actually work as a professor at medical university. Interesting. Okay. So you do research or teach about what? I teach general medicine. Okay. I'm talking of a smart one here. All right. This is one smart Russian here. That's a high status position. It's a respected position, certainly.
[00:15:35] Yeah. And it also puts a lot of pressure on you. Because I'm in this field and everything is really, really connected. And we have the neurology and psychiatry department. And I know people from that department. And they're based in the mental health hospital. Yeah. Okay. It's also an issue for me to go to ask for help.
[00:16:00] Because even though as a doctor, you're supposed to keep all personal information of a patient as a secret, I need to be honest, it's not something that's always kept as a secret. Right. Actually, one of my colleagues, she has a husband who works in that department. And very often when some people who we know, maybe these are students, you know, students, sometimes they just don't, they can't bear with the workload.
[00:16:28] Because studying at medical university is a difficult thing. So sometimes they have some mental issues too. And they just get admitted to that hospital. Like she always comes and tells, oh, like, oh, you know, this student. And, you know, it's a personal information. And then I'm like, but what if I get to the hospital? Everyone is going to know about it. Yeah. And it's not like if you go to a therapist. I don't go to a therapist right now.
[00:16:57] Because I think that, okay, if I come to a therapist and I'm honest about everything that I feel and how close I came, I'm going to be admitted to a hospital against my will. And people know you. Yeah. And people know me. Professor Katya. He's now patient Katya. It's not worth going to a therapist without talking about everything that you feel. What's the point if you have to do it like halfway? So the 27th comes.
[00:17:25] I started thinking about it a little bit deeper. I would say that I kind of had a hope at that time. I told myself maybe 2026 has something different for me. Let's just move there and see. So the 27th comes and you don't come close to doing it. You just don't do it. I didn't. You had a method in mind, I assume. I had. I'm pretty sure it's pills. No. Hanging. No. Hmm. You want to tell me or no? Yeah.
[00:17:54] I can tell you I wanted to stab myself with a knife. Ooh. Where? To my chest. This is the way that I want to do it right now as well. Okay. Because I think that this way is not going to leave me any chance to live. I think you better know what you're doing. But you're a doctor. So maybe you do. I hope in a way you're right. Not that I want you to die should you try, but that you're not in a lot of pain. That's what I, you know what I mean? I don't want people to be in a lot of pain.
[00:18:23] And I don't want people to then, if you survive it, then what? I mean, that's the real risk, isn't it? Yeah. So that's why I'm not thinking about the pills. In a hospital where my department is based in, we have a toxicology department where you commit suicides by pills or admitted to. They're not dying, you know? Most of the time they're moving to a mental hospital afterwards. It also means that you probably have access to cyanide.
[00:18:53] No, I don't have the access to. Yeah. It's not something that you can get an easy access to. Yeah. No, it's usually not so easy to get, but that works. Yeah. If I had the access to it, yeah, maybe I would use it because it's painless. I don't know if it's painless. I do know it works. Yeah. And pretty quick. I believe not that painful as a stabbing. I wouldn't know. I don't know. But you didn't do that on the 27th and 2026 comes. And then on your birthday, your 40th birthday.
[00:19:23] March 6th. March 6th. You were going to do it the same way? The same way. I know you didn't do it. And I know you probably didn't try it, but I wonder how close you come. Like, do you ever hold the knife or? I held it. So this time was closer than the 27th? No. On 27th, no, I didn't come that close. Right. So we're moving closer. Yes. On your birthday this year, you held the knife. Yeah. I've been having some difficulties at my work with the boss.
[00:19:52] Like, in general, I think one of the reasons why I started having these thoughts more heavily during this year was because of the difficulties that I had at my work with the boss and some other colleagues. Okay. Because, you know, sometimes there is this invisible abuse. You know, in school, children get bullied and it's something that's open and visible.
[00:20:16] But when you become adults, it's like this invisible aggression and bullying that you feel, but it's not that obvious. It's some words. Well, we get older and we get, in some ways, smarter, but we don't get any nicer. Yeah. So these are just some words here and there, very offensive and hurtful and evaluating of your work, diminishing, disregarding you as a person, as a woman, as a worker, and things like that.
[00:20:45] Okay. Yeah. It's just this year when this person became a boss in my department, but I've been having issues with this person for years because I know this person. I've been knowing this person for 16 years. Wow. Yeah. So I always had kind of issues, but because there were other people who were bosses in my department, I kind of had that protection.
[00:21:13] So it wasn't that targeted and it wasn't that obvious. And it's not only me. So this is another thing that I want to say. We kind of have two parts in my department that are opposing each other. And there is another person in my part. And she gets some things too, and we're kind of suffering together. So it's been very difficult at work. Yeah.
[00:21:44] So you found the podcast after almost attempt number two. Yeah. And during all this time, I actually had one person who's been supporting me. She's not Russian. And we actually got to know each other through an English learning community. Where is she from? She's from Israel. Okay. Okay. Love it. Yeah. So she has an English coaching business.
[00:22:12] And I signed up for one of her programs five years ago. She's doing a great job. I'll tell you that because your English is great. Thank you. Yeah. It was actually one of the things that's been helping me all this time. Like, you know, being a part of the community, studying, doing this like a hobby. It's been helping me all this time. But like I said, during the last 10 months, I feel that even this thing doesn't help me anymore.
[00:22:40] And sometimes I don't even want to go there and speak with other people just because I feel that I'm so hurting that I have space for other people. If I speak with someone, I'm not focused. And I can't give my whole self to another person. Yeah. So this person has been supporting me during this time.
[00:23:05] And when on March 6th, I wanted to end my life, we actually were texting. Did you tell her? I told. Yes. And what'd she say? She was just telling me that I have the whole life ahead of me and there is this world. I could have literally finished that sentence for you without you telling me. When you text her that and she responds with that, everybody's different. Everybody's different. I don't know any assumptions.
[00:23:32] You said in so many words you're going to or you're thinking about taking your life. She wrote back some version of there's so much to live for. Have hope. How did you feel in that moment? Well, I felt really good because there was someone in this world who cares about me. Okay. I don't know what I, it must be me, but it wouldn't work for me. First of all, it's an almost impossible position that she's in, right? Like, what do you do? What do you say?
[00:24:01] So that's what a common thing is. And I'm not judging her or those words. But when I feel like when someone's suicidal, often, like, they just don't feel that way. So like, you can say whatever you want, but you don't feel like there's hope. If you felt like there was hope. We talked about this 12 minutes ago. You probably wouldn't have been feeling this way and texting her that. So it feels to me like, I don't know. Tell me if you think I'm crazy. Because I am. I think that I am. Like, it's almost denying your reality. I would agree with you.
[00:24:31] Because that's an issue that I feel all the time. Like, it doesn't matter how hard I try to explain to other people what I feel. I never feel that they actually get what I'm talking about. Is it possible to get what you're talking about? If I need to be fair, it's not possible. Because you are not in my shoes. You don't know what I'm experiencing throughout the whole day.
[00:24:59] You know just a small part of what I feel right now. Right. And we don't read minds. We don't feel your feelings. We don't have your history. We don't have your parents. We don't have your boss. You know what's so weird? I am a very visual person. And I'm also a very ignorant person. And for some reason, when you said you're not in my shoes. Because I'm, for people who are visual, I'm basically just seeing Katia's face and like her shoulders a little bit. You know, like the normal thing you would see on Zoom. Because you said you're from Siberia.
[00:25:28] I feel like you're wearing these big fluffy boots. No. Of course not. I know. I know. I know. But like, you know what I mean? And there's like reindeer. Let's get back to the important stuff. Right. Like there's probably nothing she could have said or texted that would have made a huge difference. Well, but I also have to say that I don't have much of support.
[00:25:50] So basically, she has been the only person who I was almost 100% honest with. One month. Yes. And she still supported me. Kudos to her for sure. Yeah. And I just, I don't know. It just really warmed my heart. Do you think she saved your life with those words? On that day. Definitely. All right.
[00:26:14] So I don't take back my words, but I think it was effective to save your life if you wanted to be saved. This is another thing that I want to say. It's not like I don't want to live. Right. I want, but I don't want to live the life that I have right now. I'm kind of in a mousetrap and I don't have a way out. And it feels like this is the only way that I have. And I don't know, maybe I'm blind.
[00:26:42] Maybe I don't see the whole picture. Maybe it seems like that. Because when you're in the state for a long period of time, you just don't see the doors. You know, when you constantly tell yourself that they're in doors, you're not going to see them even if you, if there are doors. So I admit that I might not see. Right. Well, I love the metaphor. And there are people that would say, some people I've spoken to who are now doing better.
[00:27:11] They said at that time, that's exactly how I felt. Like there were no other options. Right. But I got through it and I see then, but I saw it wrong. That's what they're saying. I think there's also a lot of people that end their lives and maybe they would have felt that way for the rest of their lives. There's people I talk to who are chronically suicidal or chronically ideating and they are in the same mousetrap. And it's interesting that you use it. So let's get a little, let's get a little philosophical here.
[00:27:37] Are there doors you're not seeing that exist or are you the person who essentially makes the door a reality? Do you know what I'm saying? Like, are there actual doors there that you're not seeing? Or is it just that like, if you think there's a door there, there's a door there. But if you don't, there isn't. Well, I don't know where I heard it. Maybe even on your podcast or maybe I just read it somewhere.
[00:28:03] But actually the saying was, if you think you can't, you can't. If you think you can, you can. Yeah. Don't know if that always applies to everyone, always in all situations. But I understand, I believe the premise. It sounds like a very American positive kind of message. That's just how I feel about it. But I get it. Like, right. I mean, certainly if you think you can't, you're pretty much not going to be able to do something.
[00:28:32] You're not going to see the possibilities. You're not going to create opportunities. Sure. 100%. But it also, to me again, and this is through my lens, then you could tell it's a rather cynical one sometimes. It's more like, but it also can feel like a little invalidating to somebody who's struggling. It's like, I'm trying. Just by the fact that you're still alive, I know you're trying. You just said you want to be alive, but you don't want to have this life. So I say to you, well, if you think you can't, you can't. If you think you can, you can.
[00:29:02] It's like, what do you do with that? Like, what do you, how is that going to do anything? Is it? Maybe it will. It wouldn't for me, but it might for you. Right now, I can't see the way out. This is what I can say. Yeah. But in March, you came close. You got that text. It helped enough. You didn't do it, obviously. You celebrated your 40th birthday. Celebrated. I'm not sure if you could use that word, but you survived. And now we're in July. A little more sun in those skies, those skies in Siberia, right?
[00:29:30] Weather changes things sometimes for people. And you said earlier in our conversation, you have a date. What is it? August 31st. So when did you find this podcast? About a month ago. So I'm going to make an assumption here that from December, I know we also have a whole history before all of this, but like from December to March, things aren't great because you're planning to end your life on your birthday. And then from your birthday to this moment, things aren't great because we're talking
[00:29:58] about you ending your life and you have a date about a month from now. If I do the math correctly, it's going to be a Sunday or a Monday. Monday. Is there a reason why it's August 31st? Because the other two had reasons. Well, I would say yes, because there are some things that are happening in September in country and I just don't want to see them. What is happening in September? Elections time. Ah, okay. Okay. Interesting. We said we were, I said we were going to talk politics. Maybe we are, I don't know. I don't know. We shouldn't talk about it. Same method?
[00:30:27] Same. What would have to change in your life from now until then that you don't try to kill yourself, if anything? Well, if I could find another job. Okay. Or I could move. I could move somewhere. But obviously neither of those seem like they're likely to be happening. Well, yeah, with my job, it's difficult because I'm kind of bound to my university
[00:30:52] because I did PhD some time ago and the research that I was doing was sponsored or was covered by the university. And when you do it like this, you sign up the contract. By the way, I apologize. I should have been calling you Dr. Katya this whole time. My fault. No, no, no. I don't know. Dr. K, come on. Yeah, no, I'm just going to call you your name. But what was your focus or your field of research? Yeah, my specialty is cardiology. Cardiology is the study of the heart.
[00:31:22] Yeah. You're going to try to end your life by taking a knife and sticking it in your heart. Perhaps I was wrong that you do know what you're doing. I was thinking about other methods as well. I don't know what exactly it's going to be, but with a knife. Something about a knife. So a month ago, your friend suggested two podcasts. Mine one. And I assume you listened to some of it before you reached out. Yeah, I listened to many of them. You did. Okay.
[00:31:52] What about those conversations resonated with you enough that you wanted to talk? And then why did you want to talk? Or do you want to talk? Well, I felt like finally I could listen to people who definitely knew what I'm feeling. Right. Like I really resonate with some people and the thoughts that they were talking about and the feeling of not being understood and the pain when you think that there isn't any other way to stop the pain.
[00:32:20] And then I thought, like, I want to speak about it because I don't really have any opportunity to really talk about it. Because like I told you, I can't go to a therapist and be really open talking about how close I got. And also the reasons why I feel this way. And I was thinking, like, you know, I can't go to a therapist and I don't have any other way to express what I feel. And when I try, other people don't really understand what I mean.
[00:32:49] And I felt, okay, this is the place where people can be heard and seen and understood. So you can't talk to your dad, can't talk to your mom. You said you have one sibling, brother or sister? I have a sister. Can't talk to her about it. Not really. Not, not really. I mean, a little bit, but like what you said before, if you can't really talk in full about it, why bother? Yeah. Again, you know, if I can't talk about everything. Right. That's what I think about with therapy too. It's like, oh, you're letting me talk about some of it, but not the big thing.
[00:33:19] And that big thing is really what I want to talk about. So why do I even bother showing up? Do you live alone? Yes, I live alone. Is that hard? Not really. I think I got used to living alone and, you know, I've always been alone. I mean, I had a husband and a daughter, but they died in a car accident 10 years ago.
[00:33:41] I don't know if it can be considered as an attempt, but the year after their death, I really wanted to die. Yeah. I didn't want to hurt myself and I just decided to starve myself. Hard to do. And it was hard to do, but I, I think I came pretty close because I lost like 30 kilos and I was.
[00:34:08] Oh, so just so people don't know kilos, that's like 65 pounds. I weighed 30 kilos at the end. So were you hospitalized? Um, no. What changed that you started eating? Well, I, I can't really say. You don't want to say or you just don't know? I think maybe at a certain point I realized that this is not the way, like you said, it's
[00:34:32] hard to starve yourself and it's a slow death and it's, um, this is something that causes a lot of hurt. Yeah. Loved ones like to my parents, to my sister. I was not sure that I could die at the end, but at the same time I couldn't, couldn't inflict something on myself at that time. I think at that time it wasn't that bad. Fast forward nine years. Yeah. So I just gradually, gradually recovered in a way. So let me do this if I can.
[00:35:02] You grew up in Russia. Oh, well, it was USSR at that time. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That's true. That would have been garbage. So I had some issues growing up as well. So like I told you at the beginning, at first I started having these thoughts when I was a child. So I think the first time, something around seven. Uh-huh. But at that time it wasn't like, oh, I want to kill myself. It was just, I want to vanish. Sure. I want to stop existing.
[00:35:31] I don't want to wake up the next morning. This is how it was. Did you have a family that was mostly loving and supportive? Was there abuse involved? No, my family is really good. Like I have both parents and they're very loving. But one issue that I would say we have in our family, we don't speak about our emotions.
[00:35:54] And we don't have, I would say, trusting relationship that you would talk about some harsh issues that you're dealing with. And I always felt like that. And I also had some issues when I was growing up. And I was kind of labeled by my parents not being normal. What do you mean? Um, I don't know. It was just the word. Like you don't behave like a normal child.
[00:36:22] But is normal good or normal bad? Normal bad. They thought you acted in a bad way. Yeah. Like what's one example? Well, one example, I think it was just because I didn't know how to express my feelings again in a way they understood me. Okay. So I think the actual issues started when I was four.
[00:36:46] I was molested by another child that was a little bit older than I was at that time in a kindergarten. And I think at that time, I, you know, being a four-year-old child, I didn't have the words to explain what was happening to me. He also threatened me. Sure. And I didn't know how to approach someone to tell them what was happening to me.
[00:37:14] And for some reason, I remember the first person who I finally got the courage to talk about it was my parents. It was a teacher in a kindergarten. But I don't know why, whether it was like really loud, a lot of children running around, or she was shocked by what I was trying to say. But she didn't hear, like she didn't pay attention to what I said. I felt like, like at that time I wanted to disappear.
[00:37:44] I felt so small. Yeah, yeah. Not seen, not heard, not appreciated, not respected. And I felt, oh, but what if I tell about that, about it to my parents? What if they're, they're going to think the same way? And I never told my parents, but obviously I didn't want to go to kindergarten. Right. And I just did throwing tantrums. I would throw myself on the floor. Right. I would scream. I was not going to go there.
[00:38:13] I don't know. And so they would drag me to kindergarten. And that was the time they would start telling me that I wasn't normal. You know, I have all these feelings and I don't know how to express them. And they don't listen to me. I don't know how long exactly it was happening. I think not for a very long time. My mom got pregnant with my sister.
[00:38:38] And because she stayed at home with my sister, they took me from the kindergarten and my mom stayed with both of us at home. So I don't know. I think I was going to kindergarten for less than a year. So it wasn't for a long time. But I don't know how long it was because when you're so small, you don't have the feeling of time. But it's also been established that there are certain things you're not going to tell your parents and they already think you're acting strangely. Yeah. And that stays with you, no?
[00:39:08] That doesn't just disappear, I don't think. It might. And it still feels like that. So after that, I had some issues at school. Like I wasn't bullied, but I was ignored in a way because my mom worked in the same school that I was attending. I think other children, they were just afraid to bully me openly, but they would just ignore me. Like I was not included into plays during the breaks.
[00:39:36] I wasn't really spoken with. And yeah, I had friends. So I think like really bad it was maybe for just a couple of years. But then, but I also was like very shy and introverted kid. And I wouldn't take the first step. Also, around that time, it's actually kind of related to what I'm experiencing right now. In the middle of the 90s, I was 10.
[00:40:07] Yeah, around 10 at that time. Like the country was going through a huge economic crisis. And my parents were not getting salary. Like my mom worked at school and I think she wasn't getting any salary for two, three years. So sometimes they would give food instead of money. Like you take a bag of flour, you take a bag of pasta.
[00:40:32] Sometimes they would give us a paper to go to a shop to exchange it for clothes or shoes. My dad was serving at that time in the military and he was getting some salary, but it was really small to support a family of four. But definitely it wasn't enough. And at that time, I felt like my parents kind of took themselves away from us children. Like kind of excluded us.
[00:41:01] They wouldn't speak with us, with me and my sister about those topics. But you know, you're 10. You can hear some things. You can see. Sure. You can see what's happening with other kids, with their parents, with your parents. You know what's happening. You can see what kind of food you have. And they don't speak with you. They exclude you. And you want to be a part. Yeah, of course. And you want to be involved.
[00:41:31] Also at that time, my dad started drinking. He was an alcoholic. But I was extremely afraid that he would become one. Because I could see like, you know, children in my class. Yeah. Some periods of them were becoming alcoholics. Yeah. And the family would break. Yeah. Would ache. And yeah, I could see all the issues that alcohol was bringing.
[00:41:57] And I just didn't want my dad to become an alcoholic. And I think it was just like a coping mechanism for him. He was experiencing a lot of stress. He didn't know what to do with the family and how to support. And, you know, it was like they were drinking at his work. And he worked in a place that was like 30, 40 minutes by walk.
[00:42:25] From the apartment building where we lived. And he would walk on foot from his work. And when it was a wintertime, I had these intrusive thoughts. There was a huge field that was completely empty. There weren't any buildings, nothing there. And it's really cold during the wintertime. It can be like minus 30 Celsius, minus 40 Celsius. And he was coming home drunk. I know where this is going.
[00:42:54] At midnight. Yeah. At low. Right. And I was like, I had such a huge anxiety that he would just fall there and freeze. Yeah. And I, yeah, it was happening to people. People were getting drunk. And this is something that happens now as well. You know, people get drunk. And then you add someone. So my dad was supposed to come at home at like at 6 p.m.
[00:43:21] And every day when he wouldn't be at that time at home, I would get anxious, like panic attacks. Wow. And I didn't know what to do. Like, these are the feelings that I have. At the beginning, my mom was trying to be empathetic. And she was trying to calm me down. But she didn't know how. Right. Right. And again, you know, when it was like really extreme and for a long time, she would tell
[00:43:50] me again, like, you know, you're not normal. This is not normal that people feel. Just calm down and stop acting like that. And the only thing that was helping was walking. You know, I would go outside and I would walk around the block. And I like every day when he wasn't at home at 6 p.m., I would go and I would just walk around the block for hours. Like I always be at home at 10 p.m. That was like my curfew. Okay.
[00:44:17] And that's like an OCD. I would pray. Like, oh, if I pray like 100 times, he's going to be at home when I come. It's stupid. But it was the thing that was helping me in a way. And, you know, I started blaming the country for that. Like, I was like, this is why it's happening. Like, I see the reason. I see the cause. You know, what's done with people. It's insane.
[00:44:46] I could see, you know, other children, other kids at school. That was what was happening to their families, their moms and dads. Yeah. And it was really difficult. Not God. It was the country. Not God. At that time, it was the country. That's when I started a lot of hate. Yeah, I got angry. Like, why? They're going to work. They're doing everything. Why? You're putting us into this position.
[00:45:16] Did you? And I kept everything to myself because that was a difficult time. My parents didn't know what to do with me. There wasn't any support, help. At that time, mental health issues were even at a more difficult position. So, you know, when everything got a little bit more stable, I would say for the next 15 years, you know, until I lost my family to a car accident, everything was pretty good.
[00:45:44] I was never happy with the situation. Yeah. And when my husband and I were planning children, I was telling him, I'm not going to have a child here. Like, when we had some arguments about it, like, I'm not going to put another human being into this condition. By condition, you mean country? Yeah. I don't want my kid to grow up here.
[00:46:10] And then he, you know, he was working in the IT field and he started doing some steps so we could move as a family. And then I, like, okay, we can, we can. And we had a conversation about it. Like, if we move, we're going to have a kid. So, we both agreed on that. Ooh, where were you thinking about moving to? To Canada. Oh, that's a good choice. Did you make it? No. What got in the way?
[00:46:36] Because we were in the process when the accident happened. Oh, shit. Do you want to talk about the accident at all or is that too sensitive? It's a bit sensitive. Yeah, yeah. How long had you been married? We've been married for eight years and we knew each other for 10. And my daughter was 18 months old when the accident happened. I can't even describe what I felt at that time. It was like in a fog.
[00:47:03] Almost the whole year, I just stayed in my bed in my apartment. For a year? Yeah, for a year. I was not working. I was on a sick leave because of the accident too. Yeah, I don't really remember much because it's like one long time. Every day was exactly the same as the previous one. Were your parents or your sister around? Yeah, they were around. They were around me, but I kind of didn't hear that.
[00:47:33] It was like somewhat from a distance. It was not really reaching my mind and my heart. I mean, I don't think humans are designed to be able to deal with that kind of loss. Some get through it. You've gotten through it, but it's the worst thing in the world. And it feels like I live like half of my life since then. And you know, one thing that people often say, oh, you just need to go through another day. Just live day by day. Hey, do you say that?
[00:48:01] It's not good because if you live day by day, your life is not going to change. You just live one another day, which is exactly the same as a previous one. And this is what I felt like, drag myself through another day. Wow. And then so you're in your 30s. At some point you get out of the bed. I know that. You return to work. Do you ever date? No. No, I get it closed. I love people.
[00:48:29] You know, I'm a very empathetic person. I'm pretty sensitive. I work with patients. I work with students. Students are like, I love them. There is a lot of life in them. They're really good students sometimes. They're really curious and they really want to know and they really want to learn. And it's a pleasure to work with them. And with the patients, it's the same.
[00:48:55] The only thing I would say for me, because I really take close to my heart every person that I communicate with. Sometimes it's difficult because there are patients. Yeah, I'm a cardiologist. So mainly I work with elderly people. And it's difficult because they have different issues. So sometimes it's cancer in addition to the heart issues that they have.
[00:49:21] Because they're elderly, they're pretty vulnerable socially and economically. Also, like this region that I live in, it's a big region in terms of territory. But actually on that territory we live and we have just one million people. And there are some very remote places where people just survive. Places that you can get to only by helicopter. Vulnerable. No medicine available.
[00:49:50] Yeah, minimal protective factors for sure. But many people die just because of drinking. So it's difficult to work with those patients because they come to you. I work in a private sector. And it's difficult for me. You know, I'm not the person who's going to prescribe a lot of tests just because you want to earn money. Or you want to attract money to the clinic. You know, I'm not. Like I'm doing minimum.
[00:50:19] Because I see what kind of people come to me. Yeah, it's a lot of pain when they share with you their life situations, their losses, their issues. And like sometimes I come home from work and I can't stop thinking. And like I don't know at a certain point where my pain ends and someone else's pain stops. Like I feel it for someone else. Yeah, you're an empath, basically. Yeah, definitely.
[00:50:46] So that's why I don't really see a lot of patients because it's really difficult. Like I want to give my time and really listen to them because this is a treatment on its own. You know, when you give time and attention and you listen close, it's a treatment in a way. And I know that helps. Like many people just when I finish with them, they feel better just because they talked with someone who listened to them.
[00:51:15] Because, you know, doctors sometimes don't have enough time and patience to listen to people. You realize you're literally describing what I do, right? Yeah. Or try to. Or try to. Not in a clinical setting, which is an important difference, I think. But for sure, yeah. Yeah, sometimes you say just that, but the just minimizes the importance. Yeah. And not always the full answer. Of course not. Sometimes people need a certain medication or they need other things. But. Sometimes you just need another person. More than sometimes.
[00:51:45] You're in a tricky spot. So you don't really have options to go if you wanted to get mental health care. If you wanted to, let's say, let's say you say, before I leave this world on August 31st, let me get some help. Maybe there's hope. Maybe there's a doctor or a program. You can't go to where you work. And I'm going to guess that the other options are not good.
[00:52:07] The way, probably in general, Russia and a lot of countries, the hospitals, the care, the people, the institutions aren't places where you would feel comfortable going to get better. And you know this. Like you're on the inside. You're aware of what's going on. Yeah, I know. So that's why it's really difficult. And I really feel like I'm trapped.
[00:52:28] And I feel that there is a huge disagreement with who I am at my core and what I believe in and my principles and values and what's happening around me. I feel that I just can't live with that. I want to live. Like I told you, you know, I love people. And I feel fulfilled and accomplished. You know, when I help someone and someone leaves me with a smile.
[00:52:56] Okay, I did something important for that person. Even sometimes I just listen to that person. I really love the feeling at the end. And I think that's why I chose this profession. But I kind of got a little bit disappointed with that along the way. Because I could see how the system works. And the doctors are not appreciated. They're not paid well. And there is a lot of disrespect in the society towards the doctors.
[00:53:24] And we're not protected anyhow at our workplaces. And the patient is always right. So that's the thing that works here. I know like there is this, like you're always right until you're proved wrong. Something like that. But here, like a patient is always right. The society always takes the side of a patient. And we don't have any professional societies that would support doctors and try to help in situations like that.
[00:53:52] I had a lot of colleagues of mine who had some issues. Not because they made a mistake. They are good doctors. But they were sued. It wasn't their mistake. You know, at the end, we're humans. Of course. And we have the right to make mistakes. Even sometimes it's at the extent of someone's life. Well, I think it's not something that's good to say. But you can't completely avoid mistakes. Right. And sometimes they're high stakes. Sometimes lives are low.
[00:54:21] And sometimes there are many nuances. Well, it's just like not having, like you said, a professional association. That's like one more door that you do not have. If we want to go back to the door metaphor. Like there's just, there's no doors. Well, it feels like that for me right now. Right. Well, the question is, is feeling like that make it a fact? At some point, if you feel that way, you're right. Yeah. It's my reality. Yeah. It's not mine. I mean, I kind of have my own stuff. Don't get me wrong. But your reality is not my reality. But like, yeah, who might I say otherwise?
[00:54:51] How many people know about the two other dates? At least one person knows. Is that it? Well, one person knows about one. About the first one, I never told anyone. Right. How many people in the world ever learned that as a little girl, you were molested? One teacher. Is that it? Uh, that teacher, if she heard me and also a therapist. I worked, you know, when there was this period of 15 years when I felt more or less okay. Yeah.
[00:55:20] Uh, when we got married and, you know, I told my husband. Okay. And then he told me, oh, like, you need to go to therapy. And yeah, I worked with a therapist for some time and some issues. Sure. Yes. That I had being a child and having all those panic attacks and anxieties and worries. I don't think that my parents are bad. No, I have amazing parents. They're human and they were doing their best. Many families broke at that time.
[00:55:49] And I'm very grateful for having both of them right now. And they're great. And they've been a reason why I lasted for such a long time, you know, after losing my family. It's like, it's been 10 years. Yeah. And that they're the main reason, you know, people say that suicide is a selfish act. They do. But on the other hand, uh, you know, I know that I'm going to cause a lot of pain to them, but is it fair for me to live with this pain?
[00:56:19] That's the question that I have. I don't know. And, you know, sometimes I think that I'm a burden, like I'm burden to them. I'm burden to my sister. I'm a burden to this one person who knows and who tries to support me. I don't want to be a burden. I want them to live a good life without constantly worrying about something, someone. Do you think, given your sister has, shares some of your genetic makeup parents, right? Same family, similar upbringing.
[00:56:48] Is it possible that she's suffering in ways that you don't know about because you guys don't talk much about it? Well, she has some issues as well. But again, I think it's not like, I don't know. It's in my opinion, we, I don't think that it's something genetic. I would say that it's more circumstantial because the issues that she has when we moved here,
[00:57:12] when like this, the Soviet Union broke, we moved into this area where we live right now. She was two and I was, I was six, I think at that time. My parents needed to go to work and there wasn't any kindergarten or daycare that they could put her in. And my grandparents are from here and they just, so there was a, there was a decision that she was going to live with them. Oh, okay.
[00:57:38] So she was living with them five days a week and they would bring her for two days on weekend. For a two-year-old child, it was a huge stress. Like she, she was too, she wasn't even speaking that well at that time. And, um, she couldn't comprehend what was happening and why. And she lived like that, like going back and forth for another, for another five years. Yeah.
[00:58:04] And I know that it caused a lot of pain to her, but also it kind of influenced our relationship as well because, you know, I, I think it was a really important time to, to build this bond between sisters and, uh, we don't really have close relationship. I mean, we support each other. So if I call her, she's going to come and do whatever, but it's not like she's going to share with me everything. And it's not like I'm going to share with her everything the same, actually with my,
[00:58:33] my parents, you know, when I was a child, I remember once my mom was sick and I didn't, I still don't know what she was sick with, but I knew she was sick and it was kind of serious. I think it was something like on the verge of cancer or something, or it was like a cancer under question. It didn't matter how many times I asked her to tell me. She never told me. I still don't know. What was it?
[00:58:58] I know that she had a surgery, but we have the love, but we don't share emotions. Uh, and we don't have this closeness. Not a lot of hugs. Yeah. My parents live, um, in a different place. So if I want to get to them, it's like one hour flight. Oh, okay. When you saw a therapist for a while, did you ever get a diagnosis you agree with? Severe depression, PTSD, and anxiety. Did you ever take any medication for it?
[00:59:26] I'm, I'm still taking, but I don't think that really helps me because there was, there was a period when I wouldn't take anything and I didn't feel a serious difference. I, I, I think I started with, um, Prozac. Now I'm on Zoloft. Yeah. I don't think that it helps me a lot. Like I, I really believe, and I might be wrong. The, the issues that I experienced are really circumstantial. Yeah.
[00:59:54] And I just don't know what to do. Yeah. I feel, I feel like I have something in me that deserves to be seen and heard and I, I want to share it. Yeah. But I feel that I'm limited from all the ways possible. Except for at least one. Yeah. At least this one. I can, what I feel, but I mean, something that I can help other people with. Yeah. So that's the way that maybe I can help someone.
[01:00:20] Let me ask you as we speak right now, but it might apply to other times in your life that when you were 31 or earlier this year, you were trying to starve yourself. And then you had two dates and plans. Do you ever wish that like you had just gone through with it? That it turned out differently? I, you mean like I would die? Yeah. Well, on some days I wish. Right. Because I have some days that are a little bit better and some days that are worse. It just depends.
[01:00:49] Again, I feel that I'm, I'm very influenced by what's happening around me. Like it depends what I read. I try to protect myself and not to read things on the internet or not to listen. I don't have a radio. I don't have a TV. Really? Really? No, no, no. I'm on the internet. So I have Instagram. I have Facebook.
[01:01:10] I have this English learning community that I'm really thankful to because it really brightens many of my days when I feel that I don't know how I'm going to continue. How can I go through this day? Yeah. So I'm on the internet, but I'm trying, I'm trying to choose what I consume rather than allowing. Yeah. So it depends on people that I communicate with patients.
[01:01:35] You know, if I, if I have a patient who has a really tough life story, it really affects me. And then I come and like I told you, I don't know how to stop thinking about that person. Also, sometimes there are some difficult cases and I'm worried about the diagnosis that I made. You know, that's another thing that I worried about. Yeah.
[01:01:57] So some days, some days I wish that, yes, I had made that decision on December 27th or March 6th. You also say if you're getting influenced and you know it by external things and you know what's coming in September, that makes sense too. It's been something that has been happening for longer than four years. And I don't believe that it's gonna end.
[01:02:23] You know, you know, I, I had hope all this time that it's gonna end. We're specifically talking about your government, right? Yes. But I don't believe like, uh, you know, I, I had hope and I tried to cut everything out and put myself in a bubble and just try to, to live with that. Just do my things and, uh, not allow all of those things influence my wellbeing. But, you know, it doesn't matter how hard I try to cut everything out.
[01:02:54] I am, you know, I'm still a person. I live in the world and there are people around me and the people talk, well, listen to different things. So you can't completely isolate yourself. And inevitably you hear a little bit here, a little bit there, all the patients. And, you know, sometimes patients that are coming, the reason why they feel is related to it. And, and then I don't know, like I see, okay, this another person in front of me suffers because of that too.
[01:03:21] And like, it's interesting because your bubble turned into a mousetrap. Yeah. I don't think that it's gonna end. And it feels like that's the only way. I mean, like I can be at peace with myself because I am, I don't have peace because of that. Do you guys have a hotline, crisis hotline, like we have 988 here? Well, that's another thing that doesn't function. Well, I heard on your podcast that it doesn't function well in your place either. Yeah, it depends who you ask.
[01:03:49] But, you know, I have some strong feelings about it, but it exists. Do you have anything like it in your country where someone can call a phone number and get something? No, we don't have a federal one. We, like, depending on the region that you live in, you might have something. But mainly, you know, mainly there's a lot of things for addicted people, alcoholics, drug addicted people. A lot of things for teenagers and crisis. Yeah.
[01:04:15] Not really for people who are depressed and on the verge of suicide. Yeah, I've, I've been calling. So we have a hotline in my area. Okay. Does it help at all? Well, no, because if you tell everything that you feel, you're going to, okay. Well, you are in an immediate danger and you have to go to a hospital. Right. Which we don't want, right? What is a myth or misconception you want to dispel? You talked about selfishness.
[01:04:44] That's a big one. Are there others that come to mind? Well, another one that I mentioned was like, if you commit a suicide, you want to die. It's not always the truth. I believe that many people don't really want to die. Okay. But they're caught in circumstances that they don't see other way out. Right. And, and yeah, about selfishness. Definitely. Definitely.
[01:05:09] This is what I can resonate with because, you know, sometimes you're in so much pain and you don't have any way to get rid of this pain. When I was a teenager, I was doing self-harm because it felt like it was the way. It was like pausing another type of pain that's more controlled, understandable. Like, oh, okay, this is the cause. This is what you see. This is what you can do. This is what you feel. And this is what you can do.
[01:05:39] Yeah. But this type of pain, you don't have any tools to deal with. You don't know. You don't really know what causes it sometimes because there are some days when you just feel bad and there isn't any obvious reason for that. You don't see the real one. You don't have any tools. You don't do drugs or drink or cut or anything? Because some people would. I mean, it numbs the pain sometimes, right? No, I don't drink at all.
[01:06:08] You know, because of my childhood and seeing what alcohol was doing to my dad and to parents, to my friend's parents and how family is rogue because of that. No, I... And, you know, being a doctor, I also know that. It's not something that can help. It's just... Yeah, it's just numbing, but it's not the tool that really helps. Yeah. So I don't smoke. I don't do drugs. I don't drink. All right. So cat is boring. Come on.
[01:06:38] Let's go. No, I'm just kidding. I'm going to write the answer to the question before you answer it and then you'll tell me if I'm right or wrong. Okay. I have a pink and purple pill. I know this question. I know you do. And you've probably thought about it. I thought. And I give it to you and you go to sleep and there's no pain and you don't wake up. It's a better option than a knife. No one will know it's a suicide either. So all of that potential judgment or shame around that is gone. I wrote something down in my book. It's not August 31st yet. I know that.
[01:07:07] What do you do with it if I give it to you today? I would take it right now. That's exactly what I wrote down. How long would you wait? I mean, when you say right now, do you even let me say goodbye to you on this call? Yeah, right after this call. Okay. So it would hang out. It would feel weird. It would almost make me a murderer, wouldn't it? Well, I don't think this way. I see it like... Mercy? Yeah. Like liberation. Like someone is just kind to give it to me. But even if I were a murderer, you know what's cool?
[01:07:37] I get to be buried inside the fence. Oh, yeah. But when you die, are you going somewhere or are you just dead? You continue existing, but in another form of life. As a soul. You're still you. Well, what are we doing with your memoir title? We need a memoir title for you. Yeah, I know. You know how important this is to me. Do you have any... Well, I don't. I don't. So there's something that won't work.
[01:08:04] There was something like, I liked just the sound of kind divine, but it doesn't apply here. There's something about a mousetrap. I'm just thinking of words that came out that it's like they're applicable. They might have a place in this. Or the doors. Something about the doors that feel important too. So I'm throwing out some words. I don't know if you can come up with the title. Maybe it could be in Russian too. It doesn't need to be in English. By the way, I should add, as we ponder this, you found this podcast. It's in English. Did you find anything in Russian?
[01:08:33] I mean, there's plenty of Russian podcasts. This is another thing. Like I told you, I try to cut everything off. Don't consume anything in Russian. I only work in Russian. Okay. And everything that I do is in English. I mean, like as soon as I come home and I need to do whatever I want. Like I watch things in English. I listen to things in English. I read books in English. I think it's kind of like an escape for me.
[01:09:03] You know, I try to think that I'm kind of a little bit of a different person when I live in English. And it's true. I wouldn't be able to have this conversation in Russian. I don't know how to speak about my feelings. Yeah. And that person speaking about feelings in my native language. But I kind of developed it in English. It's like putting, not a mask. I think I understand it. I was dating several years ago a French woman. I could tell her I loved her in French, but not in English. Yeah.
[01:09:34] It's like not the same thing, but I kind of get it. It's a different thing. Natalie, if you're listening, I'm sorry about that. I wish I would have told you in English, but I was young and immature. I'm just, she's not listening to this. By the way, Roman, who I think is the only other person I talked to in Russian at the time, wanted to start a podcast. I believe in Russian. And it wasn't exactly the same thing. I think it was then, but he might have a podcast about suicide. I think it's different. I don't know if he's good at it. I don't know if he started it.
[01:10:02] I don't know if he's continuing it, but hey, Roman, if you're listening, other Russian. Yeah, maybe I need to check it out. Oh, you don't listen to podcasts in Russian. Yeah, that's true. I don't. Like, I want to spend as much time as possible in English. I don't know. Like, I told you, it feels like it's not me. I'm a different person who can be happy and enjoy and forget. Like, close that door to that reality and just live in this moment.
[01:10:28] Like, when I speak with someone or when I listen to something in English. Yeah. Most of the time when I speak with someone in English, I feel that it actually was helping me before. But like I told you recently, it feels like I'm so occupied in my brain with all these thoughts. I can't be fully present with another person, even in English. I mean, it seems like you're present here, but maybe not. You don't feel it.
[01:10:55] Right now, because I'm speaking about the issues that I have. But if I needed to speak about something different, not about my feelings, but something that's completely out of this topic. Yeah, that would be difficult. So are you going to share this episode in English with anyone you know? People that I don't know, I want them to listen to it. People I know, I wouldn't want them to listen to it. I think you're doing a great thing.
[01:11:24] Fascinated how many countries you already covered. You know, people are coming from different countries on your podcast. I know, right? It feels like it's a universal issue and nobody can approve it. And in any country, this is something that people deal with and they're not heard and they're seeking help. Seeking something, that is for sure. It's difficult, you know, to ask for help because you don't really know what kind of help you need. Yeah.
[01:11:54] This is what I feel sometimes I text my sister or that person that's been helping me like I told you about. And I ask for help and they ask me like, what kind of help you need right now? And I don't know. I just know that I need help. I'm just trying to survive. And it's difficult for those people as well. All of it is. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have any magic formula or solutions and people know that. And also, I'm not really here to prevent anybody from doing anything.
[01:12:23] I just want to make people or help them feel a little less shitty and a little less alone, which you hear in the introduction, I know. But that really is the truth. It's the most I can do. And you have a really good podcast voice. Oh, thanks. I wouldn't have thought that that would have been something people would have said. But some people do say that. So that's kind of cool. The words matter more than the voice, but the voice is part of it too. What time is it there? Well, it's in the middle of the night. It's almost 4 a.m. Why did you schedule it for 4 a.m.?
[01:12:53] Well, I just didn't have, I couldn't find any other time. I have difficulty sleeping, so usually I stay up late. Okay, but you're going to go to sleep soon, yeah? Yeah, I'm going to go. I need to go to work in the morning. Yes, go. Okay, go. Thank you for talking. I really appreciate you sharing what you shared. Yeah, thank you for talking. And I know that, you know, mainly you speak with suicide attempters. I'm very thankful that you listened to my story.
[01:13:21] Oh, I enjoyed it in a weird way, to be honest, because people might think it's weird or sound strange to say, I enjoyed listening to it, but I certainly appreciate it. There's a lot of trust that goes into sharing this with people, so I don't take that lightly. So thank you. I'm going to email you. Either way, memoir title. Let me know. We still have it. Okay. Take care.
[01:13:50] Thanks again, Katya. Yeah, thank you so much, Sean. Have a great day. Thank you. Bye. As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support. Special thanks to Katya in Russia. Thanks, Katya. If you are a suicide attempt survivor or ideator and you'd like to talk, please reach out. Hello at suicidenoted.com. I'd love to talk with you. And whether this is your first time listening or you've listened to every episode or more likely somewhere in between, I really appreciate it. Thanks very much.
[01:14:20] And that's all for this week's episode. Stay strong. Do the best you can. I'll talk to you soon.