JO: You know you  always ask questions. How are you doing? Are you sure you're okay? You know, I love you. You're important. Things people need to hear really help. And could avoid a lot of really bad issues.

SW: Hey there, my name is Sean. On this podcast, Suicide Noted, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to end their lives and we almost never talk about it. And when we do, many of us, including me, are not very good at it. So one of my goals with this podcast is to have conversations with suicide attempt survivors and hopefully have better conversations. We are talking about suicide, so this may not be a good fit for everyone. Please take that into account before you listen. I do hope that you listen because there's a lot to learn.

Today I’m talking with Jordan. Jordan lives in Oregon and he is a suicide attempt survivor.

Thanks for joining me. Appreciate it. Maybe we can start with when you started to think about suicide. 

JO: I started to think about suicide, I think in the sixth grade. I was living in a small town at the time. The school only had 300 students and I'm very obviously gay and was then very much so cause I was blaring out of the closet at that age. And, I was teased. I was chased by cars. My house got egged multiple times. I was egged personally. My mother was egged. People were calling me faggot nonstop all day long at school, even one of the teacher, two of the teachers said it to me themselves. And one of the teachers that I thought was on my side said she would pull her children away from me if she saw me in a mall. Was just so mean to me. Because at the time, you know, I didn't have any nieces or nephews. I have all nieces, no boys. I didn't have any nieces and nephews at the time. So I'd never gotten any experience around young children. And as I got older, I started coming down with severe depression and bipolar by the eighth grade because I was suffering so much in this small town. You know, having a teacher tell you they will pull their children away from you in a mall like you're a contagious person was just so absolutely unfeeling and mean to say to a student who was young. 

SW: Cruel.

JO:  It, you know, really affected me. And as I got older and started coming down with schizoaffective and schizophrenia, I started thinking I was contagious to children as a delusion. 

SW: Wow. 

JO: And I thought that I could give them my illness, like my psychological illness through like looking at them or thinking something or even just walking by them. I was afraid that they could catch something from me, whatever that was. I was scared that something was wrong with me and that people were not going to, you know, let me be around children. And I've never had an issue with children. I still have not. All my nieces love me. You know, I have a great family, a lot of family support. Everyone in my family is okay with me being gay. We live a very open life. So it's nice to have family support behind that. But it took me a long time to get over that. 

SW: When you were going through that, especially when you were saying, I think it was around the eighth grade, did you have anybody you felt comfortable talking to? 

JO: No. No one. I did not, no one. 

SW: How long did that go on for where you had no one to talk to?

JO: About the end of eighth grade. I started showing a lot of symptoms of mental illness. And since I was so young, they didn't want to diagnose anything. And, uh, so when I got out of eighth grade, I moved back to Portland. And I had a, you know, I've had a good life here. I've never had really any issues here. No hate problems. I have a good community for support here. And I have a good gay community around me. Everybody knows me. I'm supported and loved. That really helped quite a bit when I first moved to Portland. From there, probably my freshman summer, my stepfather died of cancer. And he died of cancer at home. We took care of him till his last minute, you know. I built his casket and you know that was a different time because I'd never lost a significant person so close. So about the middle of my sophomore year when I turned 17 I think. I attempted to hang myself and my mother found me suspended from the basement boards and that really traumatized her, but I was also in a state of mental disarray. My schizophrenia was coming out full force. I was very delusional, delusions of grandeur. And I had only just started to receive mental health here in Portland. And as things went, you know, I turned 17, I was still very unhappy. And so I tried to kill myself. You know, I was just lost. What do you do? You don't know who to go to. You're lost. 

SW: And, so you tried to hang yourself. 

JO: Yes.

SW: I'm trying to understand that you were, you did not die because your mother found you in time or was there something? 

JO: I was actually unconscious when she found me and I was basically suffocating slowly because I couldn't get the noose tight enough to break my neck. Is what they said. 

SW: You said your mom was able to cut you down, which I'm glad she's able. 

JO: Yeah. She was able to cut me down. She called nine one one. The ambulance arrived and three weeks later I was, uh, forcefully made to go into a mental institution for six months. After six months, apparently the doctors there didn't think I was  showing enough progress to be released. So they held me for another six months. And that was, think, the hardest experience I think I've ever gone through, is living inside of a mental institution. 

SW: For a year. That is a hell of a way to spend a year of your childhood or teenage years. 

JO: And it's one of the most degrading. You don't feel human. There's no, really, no humanity. And that was, that was,I  think the hardest thing to go through. 

SW: It's a reflection in part on some mental healthcare facilities for sure. That you would, you would feel that way. 

JO: Yeah. It was a horrible experience. The nurses were mean. They would force you to take your medication brutally if you didn't take it. There were a lot of bad things that happened because of their care and how unfeeling they were. They're there to help you and they don't. That's all they're there to see is you being sick so you don't hurt yourself. And it's very dehumanizing and demoralizing to be in that situation because you can't fight back. 

SW: Right. 

JO: So that was a very hard experience to go through, especially after just attempting to hang myself. 

SW: Was there any good that came from that? 

JO: Yeah. I learned, I didn't really learn, I was forced to learn that medication, if you want it to help you and you find the right medications, then you can get help and you can get therapy and there are ways around and ways out of that suicidal part of your life and be able to go back to living how you should. And it took a lot of work. I struggled with medication. Yeah, I mean, since I've been in therapy since I was so young, I kind of learned that if it's the right doctor, they're there to help you. And so you should take advantage of that. So for years, I went weekly to therapy with a psychologist and I've been on the medication I’m on now for like two or three years. And it works very well. It's a great combination. I don't have any symptoms really.

SW: What is it like to want to die or not want to live and then wake up?

JO: Oh, geez. Well, you wake up confused as to why you survived. You're like, why did you cut me down? You know, there's fighting. Why did you save me? You know, I was so close and yeah, it was a dark time in my life for quite a while. I would imagine, yeah.

SW: And in the 20 years or so since then, have you tried again? 

JO: No. 

SW: So it sounds like you found some things in your life that are helpful and are working. 

JO: Yeah. I have good family support. I have a partner that I'm married to and he has helped me quite a bit. He's a good man. So that's helped quite a bit. You know, to have a steady family and a steady partner. 

SW: Yeah. And when you think about people in your life, you had alluded to this a little bit when you were a kid, but a broader question of what does not help people who are in that kind of pain?

JO:  Force, because you're not going to make someone better. They're going to make themselves better. You have to choose to be healthy and proactive for your mental health by all means, because you know, you can slip into those dark places. And so, you know, you just practice your skills of like making sure you've taken your medication, watching for side effects or a rise in any mental health issue from depression to me having delusions of grandeur and not having them any longer because of medication. At first you don't want to take the medication.  No, they're not doing anything,  I don't need help. And once you finally cave in and go, okay, I'll try. And you try and it starts to work. And so you keep trying until you find that personal medication cocktail that works the best for you and what you're going through. And so, you know, I think that when people do commit suicide, they're lost. You know, they're in a dark moment. And they don't need to be locked up. I think that a lot of the time for some people, they could be treated outside of that situation and not have to be, you know, committed to the hospital. 

SW: Yeah. Hospitals are really good places typically to prevent you from killing yourself. But arguably for a lot of other things, some of them are failing for sure. When you got out and then as you've lived your life and you've gotten healthier, people in your life who know that you tried to end your life, how do they respond?

JO: A lot of silence sometimes. Like, some people believe it. They're like, nah. And you're like, yeah. And it's not something you just talk to a stranger about that you met in a coffee shop. It's usually something you keep inside of you and you have to wrestle with that the rest of your life. 

SW: Like, are you hard on yourself about it? Do you accept it or does it depend on the day? 

JO: It depends on the day, a lot. Because when you get near the date that you tried, you kind of start having issues about it, an anniversary coming up and you are that sensitive again because you can see it in your mind what you were doing and how you tried. And it is a lot to go through day to day and to put it aside and be like, that's not me anymore. You know, I've changed, I've taken care of myself. There are ways to get help if you need help. 

SW: It’s coming up on 20 years, isn't it?

JO: Yeah

SW: My best friend ended his life. It was more than 20 years ago, but not much. I remember that was sort of a big date in my life. Yeah, I don't know why it just felt big. It felt bad. Well, it's a long time.

JO: It's been hard. Yeah. But I've, you know, I've lived it. I went through a lot of drug addiction, after. I was using a lot of, a lot of drugs. I have never really drank. So that's never been the issue, but drugs like cocaine or amphetamines are what you go to basically. And, you know, I did that. I got myself sober. Uh, so, you know, that battles over, but.  That was hard to get over. Long time in my life I used drugs. 

SW: I'm sure it's, yeah. Did you do 12-step?

JO:  No, I did it myself. I haven't, no I just got sober. 

SW: You just did it yourself? 

JO:  Yeah. 

SW: Wow. You don't hear that.

JO: I just, you know. I just decided to stop and stopped.

SW: Good for you. 

JO: Because it's that personal decision to do it for your own health, you know? Because if you don't make the right decision, you're going to relapse. 

SW: And maybe die. 

JO: Yeah, and maybe die.

SW: Why'd you start that group? 

JO: I wanted to connect with other suicide attempt survivors just because I wanted to hear their stories and see where they'd come from. You know, like, when was it? How did you try? Are you still needing psychological help? You know, do you just need friends? You know, what do you need in your life to help you get healthy and stay healthy? And I just like to hear other people's stories on how long they've suffered and the consequences because of their actions. And, you know, because my mom still suffers trauma from finding me. Now she has horrible nightmares. I think that was probably one of the devastating things a mother could go through besides losing their child completely would be finding them almost dead, hanging from the flooring board in the basement. 

SW: Of course. Of course. 

JO: And you know, she's healthy. She had a heart attack a couple years ago. But she's doing great. I haven't seen her in four years because she lives on the East Coast. But hopefully I'll see her soon. Once all this pandemic crap is over. 

SW: Right? Yeah. I'm always curious to sort of ask people who have been there like you, what are people not understanding? And maybe they can never understand unless they go through it. 

JO: I don't think anyone can understand it unless they've been through it with a loved one or are the person who tried. And, you know, there's a lot of myths that people with mental illness are dirty or use drugs. You know, not all of us do. A lot of us are proactive about our health and are trying. It just depends on how far in we were before we got the help and trying to heal the mental illness that is with you for the rest of your life and having to adjust to that day to day and mood swings and, you know, tiredness, headaches. There's a lot of different things that people suffer after they've tried and it's, you know, it makes sense because if you are mentally ill, you're going to try to reach out and find help. And a lot of the time people are on the street when they're doing that, you know, they don't have a place to sleep or they're sleeping in a shelter. And they're not able to get the help they want or need because they say they don't need the help. And then that leads to, you know, self-infected wounds, overdoses. Things like that, because they're going to go off of it and think, I can do this and then have to go on. then they do as much as they were doing and die. 

SW: So many things that are happening that compound it when you are homeless and all these other factors, right? That just makes it so. 

JO: You don't know who you can trust with that information and who you believe is going to help you or not. My care team is extremely good. I've had all my carers now for several years. My doctor I've been with since I was 18. And he's a great doctor. If you're in healthcare and you're going to a mental health clinic to receive help, lot of times the social workers are absolutely incredible people. Absolutely incredible people. They, you know, they want to help. They're there. You can call them. They'll call you back. You can set up meetings to go meet with them and talk in person. Like I have a doctor appointment with my doctor tomorrow over the phone, of course, but you know, there are ways to get help and you just have to finally say, okay, I need help. People are willing to help you when you ask. But if you say nothing, they don't know. 

SW: Can't read your mind. Yeah. But I get why people sometimes don't ask.

JO:  I do too. It's trust when mental health is so important and yet you haven't received care. I really think people think other people can't help. Like, it's only my problem. No one else is going through this. And there are people going through it and you just need to reach out and, you know, create an atmosphere of caring. I have a team that works for me of 10, but I see one of them or call one of them anytime I want. love her to death. She's awesome. She reminds me of

my family. You know, she is kind of like a sister in a way because she's younger like me and

that's good because you have a peer, you know, that you're working with and the same doctor this long, he's really seen everything I've gone through. And he has saved my life several times by just listening and helping. 

SW: So if there are people that are listening that are suicidal, contemplating, ideating, what would you say to people who are listening and who are not sure that they want to live?

JO: I say, get help. You just have to reach out. Even if you don't trust anybody, someone will come through for you in those moments. There will be a person there that will help carry you through. And if you don't think there is, well, find someone to help with that issue. There's a lot of great doctors out there, a lot of great social workers. They're not there to hurt, they're there to help. And people don't understand the kind of help they can get in a situation like that because they've never had to reach out for psychological issues. A lot of people that are going through mental illness don't even realize they're mentally ill. And that is what I think leads to overdoses and situations of abuse of any kind. Your body remembers trauma. Even if you don't necessarily remember the event, your body does. And so you'll have changes. You know, every day is a different day. Some days you wake up okay, and some days you wake up and don't want to get out of bed. I think that's the same for everybody. But it's the reaching out part that people need to understand is that if you reach out, people will help you.

SW: There are people out there that are probably like you when you were 17 and they just don't feel that way. And I and I always wonder, like, how do you this is more of a rhetorical question or thought. How do you reach those people who just don't feel like there is an answer or any hope.

JO: I don't know. I say just even just quietly support. You know, just be around them, give them, you know, time in your day to be around them and help provide them some normalcy and routine because it's routine that's going to help you get better. And you know, if you practice your routine, if you go to your 12 step programs, which have helped a lot of people. Alcoholics Anonymous is awesome. NA is awesome. I've been in groups a couple different times and it's just not the way I like to share. So I don't go. But my mother is a drug and alcohol counselor and she didn't know I was using drugs. She couldn't tell. And I was pretty low at that time. That was a pretty dark time in my life. But I think now she understands more of it than she did then even because, you know, because of me and having to go through it. And also my brother, Eric has PTSD from being in war in Afghanistan. So there's a lot of, you know, he has a lot of issues. I have a lot of issues, but we have to actively get help. You have to reach out, you have to go get your meds, go to a doctor, explain what's going on so they can potentially match you with a system that works, a medication that works, or even, you know, it's just, when somebody listens, you need to listen to those people. Because you listen to what's going on in their mind and it just seems like chaos. And when you're at that point in your life, it's chaos.

SW: A lot of people kind of suck at listening, Jordan. That's unfortunate, but not everybody. You seem like you'd be a good listener. 

JO: I try my best. You you always ask questions. How are you doing? Are you sure you're okay? You know, I love you. You're important. Things people need to hear really help. Yeah. And could avoid a lot of really bad issues.

SW: How you been doing during the lockdown or the pandemic? 

JO: It's been okay. The only real difference I've noticed is just wearing masks. And you know, how many  people in your state have been, or even county have been infected and our rates are still going up. You know, I'm in Oregon. Our rate is still going up. we went from, think 2000 people to 11,000 people a couple of days ago. That have been, you know, diagnosed. 

SW: Right. That's what we got to go by. Yeah. 

JO: So, you know, we have to just kind of, you know, make sure you're washing your hands and doing what you need to do because nobody wants that to happen.

SW:  What helps you other than I know you say you take some meds, you go to therapy and you have a support group, which are all amazing. What else has helped you? 

JO: I think the one thing that helped me the most was probably starting to do drag. And I did drag for 15 years here in Portland. So right now I'm retired. I haven't gotten back on stage in a couple of years. But, you know, that really helped me quite a bit. It allowed me a way to, you know, show my art or be a comedian or show my talents of what I can do. And I've won several titles that are meant for the drag community here in Portland. And the community supports you. You know, if you're out in the community and you're a shining star, you need to watch out for the people that are so drunk at night and they want to drive home that they don't drive home. You know, there's other things you can do in the bar besides being on stage dressed up. And a lot of people, you know, it's funny, people talk easier to you when you're in drag, then do when you're out of it. It's like they automatically trust you to be the comedian. They automatically trust you. You're going to be the one on stage. You're going be entertaining us. So it's up to you to make a difference. I helped a lot of youth organizations when I was younger with raising money and getting clothing and coats and things like that for outreach for younger kids in the town.

Because we have a large underage houselessness issue. You know, like they get kicked out for being gay. And they don't know where to go. And so you just kind of have to, if you don't do your research, you're not going to find anything. You know, you got to look things up. You got to know what you're doing. Yeah. But yeah, the community supported me quite a bit. I mean, I was doing it forever and ever. And. It I just decided I didn't want to do it anymore, basically. 

SW: Is that right? Is there reason or just felt like the time to stop? 

JO: No, I just wanted to stop. I was tired of it. And there's a lot of competition. That is kind of pointless that you have to go through and you got to rise up to be the best, you know, and hit your peak. And I started slowing down, I think, right after I peaked. I was hosting a couple of different shows, or I have hosted a couple of different shows in drag. And on a weekly basis, you know, like I do the Thursday night show here at a bar. And, you know, that was a great experience working with a microphone and being able to talk to your audience, not just lip-sync to them. You know, I think it's just artistic, it's a way to express yourself artistically. 

SW: If you left or took a break just after you were on top, that's like the perfect time to leave. 

JO: That's when I left. I tried my best. I'm doing okay now. I've done it enough.

SW: I appreciate this. I appreciate you sharing what you're sharing about your life and some of the other experiences you've had.  What's the name of the Facebook group? 

JO: Suicide Attempt Survivors Life Group. 

SW: Cool. Thanks, Jordan. 

JO: Yep. See you later. 

SW: All right. Have a good day.

JO: Yeah. Bye.

SW: Thanks so much for joining us today. If you like this podcast, I encourage you to subscribe and leave a review because that will also help other people find the podcast and hear these stories. If you or someone you know would like to join us and share your story, you can reach us at hello@suicidenoted.com  Thanks again. Talk to you soon and stay strong.