Joe in Oregon

[00:00:00] It was just a slow decline of feeling like this unresolved identity crisis. This is so overwhelming. I just feel like I'm never gonna feel like I fit in anywhere in the world and I don't even want to try to be a part of it at all.

[00:00:18] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories.

[00:00:45] Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough and when we do talk about it, many of us, we're not very good at it.

[00:00:55] So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors in large part to help more people in more places hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone.

[00:01:07] Now if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:01:11] Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or X, at least for now, at Suicide Noted.

[00:01:17] You can check the show notes if you'd like to learn more about this podcast, including our membership, as well as our training.

[00:01:25] You can learn more, follow that link if you want to potentially create your own podcast and have the kinds of conversations that I've been having.

[00:01:34] Of course, they don't need to be with suicide attempt survivors, but with people who have a lived experience around some of the tougher or harder things, the kind of things we tend not to talk about.

[00:01:44] I'm sure you get it.

[00:01:46] I want to amplify the voices of the marginalized and the silence, so if you go to that page, you will see that this is as hands-on a training as you can get.

[00:01:55] And it is also beyond affordable.

[00:01:58] We're getting started this week.

[00:02:00] It's rolling in missions.

[00:02:01] It's going to be absolutely fucking epic.

[00:02:03] Join me.

[00:02:04] You can learn more about this training at NotedTraining.com.

[00:02:08] Today, I am talking with Joe.

[00:02:11] Joe lives in Oregon, and he is a suicide attempt survivor.

[00:02:19] Hey, Joe.

[00:02:20] Hey, how's it going?

[00:02:22] It's going, man.

[00:02:23] Where are you?

[00:02:24] Here I am.

[00:02:25] I'm in my truck in Portland, Oregon.

[00:02:28] What kind of truck do you have?

[00:02:29] I have a Ford F-150 2007 common American truck found everywhere.

[00:02:35] Just a couple of American guys.

[00:02:37] One of us is in a truck.

[00:02:39] One of us is not.

[00:02:40] Yeah.

[00:02:41] Yeah.

[00:02:42] Talking about a very common American thing.

[00:02:45] Given that the election is tomorrow, I don't remember seeing this specifically on any of their talking points.

[00:02:53] Suicide.

[00:02:53] Did you?

[00:02:54] No, I don't.

[00:02:55] Yeah.

[00:02:56] I didn't see it as a headliner at all.

[00:02:59] And it's funny.

[00:03:00] The election is tomorrow, yet I haven't really thought about it at all.

[00:03:03] I did vote, but I haven't thought about it.

[00:03:05] So, yeah.

[00:03:06] I just got a lot else on my mind, you know?

[00:03:08] Right.

[00:03:09] Right.

[00:03:09] Right.

[00:03:11] Understandable.

[00:03:11] Understandable.

[00:03:12] Yeah.

[00:03:12] Now, you are dressed in a way that makes me think.

[00:03:15] I have a feeling you're not this.

[00:03:18] You're just dressed that way sometimes, but it looks like you're sort of a hunter necessarily, but maybe a mountaineer man.

[00:03:25] Well, I do like to go in the mountains.

[00:03:27] I'm not a hunter or conservative.

[00:03:29] This is actually another podcast called Dopey.

[00:03:32] Oh.

[00:03:32] I don't know if you've ever heard of it, about drugs, addiction, and dumb shit.

[00:03:36] Yeah.

[00:03:36] They do it out in New York.

[00:03:38] I first heard about it because they did a bit about it on This American Life because there's two hosts.

[00:03:42] One of the hosts overdosed and died.

[00:03:44] This American Life picked it up.

[00:03:46] Yeah.

[00:03:46] It's just been helpful in my journey.

[00:03:48] So, just got a nice duck print camo.

[00:03:50] It's funny.

[00:03:51] I love the pattern of camo, but people will associate me with it, certain type of people, because I wear camo.

[00:03:58] But it's really just pattern I like.

[00:04:01] It's like stripes or plaid or whatever.

[00:04:04] I just really geek out on the pattern.

[00:04:06] I have a pretty good idea that some of the stuff we might talk about during our conversation might be, quote, drugs, addiction, and dumb shit.

[00:04:16] I'm not saying the dumb shit.

[00:04:17] You said it.

[00:04:18] Yeah.

[00:04:18] Yeah.

[00:04:19] Yeah.

[00:04:19] Yeah.

[00:04:20] Hindsight, right?

[00:04:20] How many suicide attempts do you have?

[00:04:22] So, I classify myself as only having one attempt.

[00:04:26] On this year, October 21st, 2024 was my actual attempt.

[00:04:31] I did have an incident in 2021 in which I had made a plan.

[00:04:36] I was like, all right, I'm going to go into the woods.

[00:04:38] I'm going to trigger my SOS device and I'm going to hang myself.

[00:04:41] But as soon as I came up with that plan, I freaked myself out and bailed on that plan.

[00:04:46] And it's like, all right, I bought myself some time.

[00:04:48] Me, personally, I don't classify that as an attempt because I didn't commit to the actual act.

[00:04:53] Yeah.

[00:04:54] October 21st, 2024, it was Monday.

[00:04:57] I got off work.

[00:04:58] I took a lot of oxycodone partnered with a pseudometaphene and hydrocodone partnered with a pseudometaphene too.

[00:05:05] So, a large dose of both of those late at night.

[00:05:09] You wanted to die.

[00:05:10] I did.

[00:05:10] Yes.

[00:05:11] Yeah.

[00:05:11] I got a motel for the night because my lease hadn't started.

[00:05:15] I got a motel because I have a dog and I thought I'd leave the dog in the motel, take the pills.

[00:05:21] The maid staff would find me in the morning.

[00:05:23] That would give them, they would take care of me.

[00:05:25] My dog would go to shelter before my family would come get me.

[00:05:29] And before I took all these pills, I had fallen asleep for about an hour.

[00:05:33] Once I took the pills, I couldn't fall asleep even though I've never been a recreational user of opiates.

[00:05:42] So, I didn't know the effects or the dosage or anything if I got any of that right.

[00:05:47] And so, I couldn't fall asleep.

[00:05:49] I just couldn't fall asleep.

[00:05:51] And I don't know if this is true, but I do think in the end, having taken a brief nap before I did this actually ended up saving my life.

[00:05:59] Wow.

[00:05:59] Now, just to be clear here, that was two weeks ago.

[00:06:02] Yeah, that was two weeks ago.

[00:06:04] There will be people who hear this that say, well, that's too soon to be talking to somebody who just tried to end up.

[00:06:10] I don't agree with that.

[00:06:11] You decide that, right?

[00:06:13] Yeah.

[00:06:14] Two weeks ago, you tried in a motel with a bunch of pills.

[00:06:17] A nap beforehand may have saved your life.

[00:06:20] Had you heard the podcast before then or was it then that you looked for stuff around this?

[00:06:24] No, I had heard the podcast the first time I listened was December of 2023.

[00:06:30] And just given my relationship with suicide, it is somewhat harder for me to continually listen to the podcast.

[00:06:37] I know some people you interview learn through all the episodes.

[00:06:39] I'm only able to digest a couple here and there.

[00:06:42] I'm originally from Montana.

[00:06:44] I just moved to Oregon and I listened to one of your podcasts, Dustin from Montana, which I thought was pretty cool.

[00:06:50] Yeah.

[00:06:51] It usually takes the state in the country as being having the highest suicide rate.

[00:06:56] So a lot of stuff out there.

[00:06:58] So I don't know.

[00:06:59] I haven't had a lot of time to necessarily process this or talk to people really.

[00:07:05] And I just feel like I'm at a point where I just want to share my story and get it out, get it out in an environment that feels very no judgment.

[00:07:13] Someone who can handle suicide.

[00:07:15] This is a very serious and dark topic.

[00:07:17] So it's hard to find people to be expressive and open about suicide.

[00:07:22] Well, I appreciate you being here and talking about it.

[00:07:24] Trust me.

[00:07:24] Thanks.

[00:07:25] So how old are you?

[00:07:26] I'm 32.

[00:07:27] A few years ago, you had an almost attempt.

[00:07:30] Do you remember up in Montana growing up?

[00:07:33] Did the thoughts ever cross your mind?

[00:07:35] When did that whole thing start?

[00:07:37] Do you remember?

[00:07:38] Not really.

[00:07:39] I had a very chaotic childhood with my parents, but the chaos of thinking about suicide didn't come in really into my radar until seriously for the last four or five years.

[00:07:53] You know, I've known people loosely who've taken their own life and heard people talk about it.

[00:07:59] But it was never something I seriously considered because I always just felt good and grounded and happy and engaging in the world and found reasons to live.

[00:08:09] So what happens?

[00:08:11] Do you recall in whatever it was like four issues ago?

[00:08:15] Because that's a pretty big shift, right?

[00:08:18] To not thinking about suicide really ever.

[00:08:21] I mean, not like you didn't know what it was, obviously, but personally, personally.

[00:08:24] These kinds of things fascinate me.

[00:08:26] I don't think it's an easy question to necessarily answer unless there was a really big event.

[00:08:30] Yeah.

[00:08:31] So I think for me, it was transitioning into more adulthood.

[00:08:35] Like after four-year bachelor degree, I went and worked for Child Protective Services for a while.

[00:08:40] That was a great experience.

[00:08:42] But I just get kind of restless in jobs.

[00:08:44] So I transitioned careers.

[00:08:47] And after CPS, I became an aircraft mechanic and was working for that.

[00:08:51] Really enjoyed the subject.

[00:08:53] Didn't enjoy the culture at all.

[00:08:54] And I felt like for me, the last four years have really been struggling to find out where I fit into the world, how I'm going to make money,

[00:09:04] wanting to do something that I don't feel like I fit into with the culture.

[00:09:10] Then also struggling with depression, anxiety.

[00:09:14] Like about four or five years ago, I started.

[00:09:16] First time I'd ever used cannabis.

[00:09:17] And I went into a pretty deep addiction with cannabis.

[00:09:20] And I felt like that derailed a lot of my life.

[00:09:23] I stunted a lot of personal growth, career growth, friendships, relationships.

[00:09:28] It was just this slow decline of feeling like this unresolved identity crisis that got me to a place about like, I just have, this is so overwhelming.

[00:09:37] I just feel like I'm never going to feel like I fit in anywhere in the world.

[00:09:41] And I don't even want to try to be a part of it at all.

[00:09:45] It's just been this slow, like degrade into feeling like I'm never going to find a place.

[00:09:52] I'm just like, there are some humans on the planet that don't seem to be people who fit in or should be here.

[00:09:59] And I've slowly convinced myself that I am one of those people.

[00:10:03] Yeah, there is nothing particular that triggered all this.

[00:10:07] It almost feels like this inability to kind of grow up and to develop healthy coping mechanisms and to stick through the hard things.

[00:10:17] And, you know, kind of being in an addict mindset and wanting to things to come to me instantly versus like, no, this is a marathon that slowly will work itself out being versus being all resolved now.

[00:10:31] And that's why I kind of turned towards suicide just being like, well, this is something that can just resolve it all right now and make all these feelings and all this wonder about the future and about mistakes in the past.

[00:10:41] Just go away.

[00:10:43] Yep.

[00:10:44] And I've heard some people say, and I think this is the case for me at times where having that as an option is, what's the word?

[00:10:52] It's a kind of coping mechanism, if that makes sense.

[00:10:55] Like I have the out, whether you're serious about it at that time or not.

[00:10:58] In your case, you know, you did try.

[00:11:01] So this isn't just thoughts.

[00:11:03] This sometimes is actions, but it's there, right?

[00:11:07] Yeah.

[00:11:07] Just in case if it keeps getting bad, it's there.

[00:11:10] Yeah.

[00:11:10] But if it weren't there, then what do you do?

[00:11:13] Where does it go?

[00:11:14] For me, it's like the ultimate lazy thing I can do because I do feel like when it comes to the hard work emotionally that I am just kind of inherently lazy.

[00:11:26] And so this is the pinnacle of laziness for me is committing suicide.

[00:11:31] But also knowing that it is there.

[00:11:34] There is some comfort in that.

[00:11:37] I do find relief that like all my pain, my personal pain can stop today.

[00:11:43] Okay.

[00:11:43] I'm going to inflict pain on a bunch of other people, but all this can go away right now if I choose.

[00:11:49] This is such an interesting thing.

[00:11:50] I think people will hear what you said, probably take it out of context and hear the word lazy and be like, what?

[00:11:55] And this is a good opportunity for me.

[00:12:27] This is something where like, this is how we feel about suicide and this is how we talk about it.

[00:12:32] That's ridiculous.

[00:12:34] So I'm glad that you're like talking about it, obviously, honestly, and just your word choice.

[00:12:38] Like it doesn't matter what people fucking think.

[00:12:40] It doesn't.

[00:12:40] No, like, I guess I should have started this with, hey, there might be some trigger warnings, which is weird because we're talking about such a serious subject.

[00:12:48] And my story is going to be filled with a lot of contradictions.

[00:12:51] Like I'm going to be on your side with suicide and I'm going to be on what I believe to be a much more majority of the time rational.

[00:12:59] And because I ultimately my personal attempt was very selfish and I felt like it was selfish and lazy.

[00:13:06] And I know that might upset some people, but it's like seeing how people responded, especially my family and seeing how upset they were.

[00:13:15] It made me realize, like, it's not about me.

[00:13:18] My problems aren't big enough to resort to this of a dramatic action.

[00:13:23] It's on one hand, it's like, I don't want to be here because I don't want to continue to go through this pain that I have been for years and seeking out what I'm going to do for life and trying to figure out my identity and then let myself forgive myself.

[00:13:36] For a lot of the ways that particularly around dating women.

[00:13:39] And I just want it to all fucking go away.

[00:13:42] But on the other hand, I'm like, I don't want to hurt my family.

[00:13:45] I don't want to miss out on opportunities that lie ahead.

[00:13:48] You know, there are so many things to be that are beautiful in the world.

[00:13:52] Every year I am just filled with the surprises and the opportunities that I get and the people I meet and the direction my life takes that it's seems too interesting.

[00:14:04] And I feel too privileged and gifted to take my life given the life I have, even though I attempted, which makes no fucking sense.

[00:14:12] It's like, well, a lot of this won't make sense.

[00:14:15] And it's you said it's contradictory sometimes.

[00:14:17] And that is just the way life is, man.

[00:14:19] Yeah.

[00:14:21] But I was going to say, wow.

[00:14:22] But you tried two weeks ago.

[00:14:24] So is this ideas that you're sharing?

[00:14:26] Are they rather new?

[00:14:27] Or is it just sort of the up and down, back and forth way the mind works?

[00:14:32] They're not new.

[00:14:33] I have leaned much more heavily on the side of suicide versus how I'm feeling now.

[00:14:38] And I think how I'm feeling now is because I attempted to take my own life.

[00:14:44] And I think the thing that saved my life is trying to take my life.

[00:14:48] I think that's how this is all going to play out for me.

[00:14:50] And what pushed me over the edge to finally be like, all right, it's time to do this is, you know, dealing with all this like job stuff, career, identity, state of the world.

[00:15:02] I was in a relationship this year from February until July.

[00:15:07] She was actually a sex worker.

[00:15:08] She was an escort, high class escort, a prostitute.

[00:15:13] And I'm in the open relationship world.

[00:15:16] I just got into this.

[00:15:17] This is a person I fell madly in love with.

[00:15:20] Great chemistry, beautiful individual.

[00:15:23] I just had a difficult time accepting the terms of her relationship and how she earned her money, even though it provided her with a lot of benefits.

[00:15:33] This is someone that I'm like, I finally have found somebody that I feel like I can spend the rest of my life with.

[00:15:39] And then we had this this thing and our relationship was which could have been so beautiful for me to work on my jealousy and my insecurity.

[00:15:48] And instead, that came out sideways.

[00:15:52] You know, we were like smoking a lot of weed together.

[00:15:55] I was doing a little bit of drinking.

[00:15:56] And eventually that just corroded our relationship and it ended up ending.

[00:16:00] And this is something someone who now I'll probably never see or speak to again.

[00:16:04] And it was really crushing.

[00:16:05] So adding this breakup to all of this was just like too much, just too much.

[00:16:12] And that happened in July.

[00:16:13] I attempted at the end of October during that period.

[00:16:17] I was like, it's been almost as much time since we broke up as the length of the relationship.

[00:16:22] Yet I'm still thinking about this as if it's day one.

[00:16:26] Yeah.

[00:16:26] And then compile everything else on top.

[00:16:28] And I'm just like, fuck it.

[00:16:29] I'm done.

[00:16:30] I am done.

[00:16:31] And I said on that Monday, I set myself on a very one track mind.

[00:16:36] I am doing this.

[00:16:37] I am going through with this.

[00:16:38] I'm not talking to anybody.

[00:16:40] The straw that broke the camel's back was breakup and the pain that I'm that's very acute that I'm experiencing now that led me to just be like, fuck it.

[00:16:49] I'm out.

[00:16:50] I'm done.

[00:16:50] I don't know where it's written.

[00:16:52] You know, people say that you have to, if you've dated someone for six months, six months later after the breakup, you should feel a certain.

[00:16:58] That's fucking dumb.

[00:16:59] If you meet somebody who you feel like is the first person that you could spend the rest of your life with, I don't give a shit if you know them for a week.

[00:17:06] That could stay with you for years.

[00:17:08] Yeah, exactly.

[00:17:09] Exactly.

[00:17:09] That's how I'm feeling.

[00:17:10] Like this is emotions going to stick around for me with me for a while and be like, all right, clearly killing myself isn't the answer.

[00:17:18] So what is the answer?

[00:17:19] And it's to make every decision for not only my betterment of myself and the health of my family, but also for this individual in terms of like, eventually someone else will come along.

[00:17:32] I want to be in a much more stable place when they do, even if it revolves around jealousy.

[00:17:38] So I don't want to go to dramatic length of killing myself.

[00:17:43] I know that's kind of all over the place.

[00:17:44] And yeah, you're the first person I've like really, really talked to seriously about this.

[00:17:49] So it's kind of like, I'm like kind of an audio processor as well.

[00:17:53] Right.

[00:17:53] No, it makes sense.

[00:17:54] It makes sense.

[00:17:55] The thing that saved my life was trying to take my life.

[00:17:58] You know what that feels like to me?

[00:17:59] It feels like a memoir title.

[00:18:01] Yeah.

[00:18:02] Yeah.

[00:18:03] It might already be out there.

[00:18:05] So nobody knows we're talking.

[00:18:06] I imagine.

[00:18:07] One person does.

[00:18:08] A buddy in New York who I talked to yesterday and told them about this experience and told them about the podcast.

[00:18:13] I will refer people I trust to this episode, but I know going forward, I'm going to be very selective about who I talk about this subject with because it's fucking heavy.

[00:18:25] You know, like suicide, I feel like for a lot of people is heavy, you know, and that's just me projecting.

[00:18:31] Yeah.

[00:18:32] Yeah.

[00:18:32] Just not to get into the zone of oversharing because I can overshare too much with people sometimes, maybe in an appropriate time.

[00:18:39] Somebody was just asking me recently about do you pause when sharing things about your life that are, quote, dark?

[00:18:46] I'm not sure I would use that word, but, you know, and sometimes you have no choice to either just not talk about it because it doesn't make sense.

[00:18:52] I wouldn't talk about it with like necessarily like a neighbor who I see when we're taking out our garbage.

[00:18:56] If they're considered like a friend of mine, that is actually, I guess, probably the biggest thing is you can't handle that.

[00:19:03] Like, I'm just not, I can't show up as myself.

[00:19:06] It's a big part of my fucking life.

[00:19:07] We're probably not friends.

[00:19:08] That's a very good point.

[00:19:10] That's a good point.

[00:19:10] Which can be hard though, because that might mean you don't have a lot of friends.

[00:19:14] Yeah.

[00:19:15] Or you're just, you know, I mean, radical honesty, being upfront with people from the beginning, you know, it's a great way to select friendships and make some lasting connections.

[00:19:24] What happened in 2021?

[00:19:25] The near attempt.

[00:19:26] That's when I just finished trade school.

[00:19:28] I had realized that I was a unicorn in that industry and that finding a good shop to work at with good people would probably be difficult.

[00:19:37] So I was just like, I don't even know how to pull the trigger on this.

[00:19:41] I was living at a house in Helena and had had a job lined up, bailed on that job, moved back in with my mom, was unemployed, eating weed all day, taking super long baths, no social life, not working out at all.

[00:19:55] No relationships, no relationships, just dwelling on my pathetic little problems.

[00:20:30] Black and white.

[00:20:31] I just freaked myself out as soon as I came up with that plan.

[00:20:34] I feel like when you commit to going through with suicide, it just scared me because it was like, this is the most serious decision I've ever made in my life.

[00:20:43] And I've been known to be an impulsive person.

[00:20:46] And I can't judge whether this is an impulsive decision or not.

[00:20:50] And I knew in that moment that I'd bought myself three to five years of no attempts.

[00:20:56] I knew that.

[00:20:57] I knew that.

[00:20:58] I was like, there's no way I'm going to do this for three to five years.

[00:21:01] Wow.

[00:21:02] Are you still in the bathroom?

[00:21:02] I feel like you're still in the bath when you make the decision.

[00:21:05] I realized the baths aren't good for me.

[00:21:07] So I avoid, I avoid taking baths for now.

[00:21:10] I can get caught up in there a little bit too long.

[00:21:12] Right, right.

[00:21:13] I'm a bit of a bath man, not to create any unnecessary visuals for the audience, but I appreciate that.

[00:21:20] It's interesting that the idea that when you just saw that black and white moment, and then you knew there would be a nice chunk of time where that's not an option.

[00:21:27] And you were right.

[00:21:28] Yeah, I just, I like, it's almost like in that moment I had settled on the consequences of what that would mean.

[00:21:35] And it was a lot more real to me in that moment than it was when I actually attempted a couple weeks ago where I was like, oh, fuck, family, friends.

[00:21:43] I'm only 29 years old, you know, like there's all these, all these variables going into my head right now that just was like roadblock, roadblock, roadblock.

[00:21:52] Just stop me from actually going through with that plan.

[00:21:55] So you said it's a slide from several years ago, including that moment, knowing you're not going to do it for a while.

[00:22:01] And then as you're sliding, you said in two weeks ago, it wasn't one thing.

[00:22:06] Yet, I wonder, you did it on a Monday two weeks ago.

[00:22:09] You didn't do it on Sunday and you didn't do it on Tuesday.

[00:22:12] It's a tough one.

[00:22:13] I know.

[00:22:14] Why Monday?

[00:22:15] Why that day?

[00:22:15] Why that motel?

[00:22:16] Why that moment?

[00:22:18] You know, I was working at a job that I've since quit.

[00:22:21] I like the job.

[00:22:22] I like the company, but I just found myself being like, once again, I am working at a dead end job.

[00:22:29] I don't feel like I'm fulfilling my career.

[00:22:32] I can't get this relationship out of my head.

[00:22:35] I don't know where I'm going.

[00:22:37] I don't know what I'm doing.

[00:22:39] Let's just do it.

[00:22:40] Check out.

[00:22:40] And that hotel in Portland here happened to be a really cheap one.

[00:22:44] So that's why I got that one.

[00:22:46] But there, I mean, that's a good question because I don't think there really is any, there was nothing major that happened or traumatic on that day.

[00:22:54] There was nothing that led me to it.

[00:22:56] I think on that particular day, I just exhausted my emotional reserves and gassed in a way.

[00:23:02] I was just like, enough.

[00:23:04] I'm done.

[00:23:05] It's hopeless.

[00:23:06] This isn't going to improve.

[00:23:07] I've been here for four or five years.

[00:23:09] And now I just can't seem to gain a tenacity on this and a strength.

[00:23:15] And I continually don't know what I need in life.

[00:23:18] So fuck it.

[00:23:19] Let's just let's just do this thing.

[00:23:22] That's going to put an end to all of this.

[00:23:24] How do you feel when you woke up?

[00:23:26] I felt awful.

[00:23:28] I mean, because at that point, what I learned, because I did go to the hospital, I went to the ER.

[00:23:32] They told me that the opiate's right out of my system and that the pseudometphene is what I needed to be worried about.

[00:23:38] So when I woke up in the morning, I called one of my sisters who was a nurse and she called my other sister who's a nurse.

[00:23:44] And then my third sister started calling me.

[00:23:47] And then a friend called me like they all got on the horn.

[00:23:50] I was mad.

[00:23:52] I was upset.

[00:23:52] I was upset that it hadn't worked out.

[00:23:54] And for probably five days afterwards, I had thought about a second attempt a little bit.

[00:24:00] Not seriously, though.

[00:24:02] But I wish it had worked.

[00:24:04] You wish it had worked.

[00:24:05] Do you feel that way right now?

[00:24:06] No, I don't.

[00:24:07] I'm very thankful that that it didn't work out.

[00:24:10] And I know there hasn't been a lot of time to come to that, to really wrestle with that decision.

[00:24:15] And there hasn't been a lot of time between the act and now.

[00:24:18] But I do.

[00:24:19] I do kind of feel like my baseline has just improved.

[00:24:22] Kind of like when I was sitting in the tub and that black and white decision came of like, I can't do this.

[00:24:27] All the reality of the consequences came into my head.

[00:24:31] And that's what I feel like this attempt provided me, especially once my body sort of recovered, especially from such a large dose of pills.

[00:24:39] Like my body was a little messed up for a couple of days in a weird headspace.

[00:24:43] It was really just like, what the fuck?

[00:24:45] What did I just do?

[00:24:47] You know, so there was a lot of just kind of come into terms with that decision.

[00:24:51] Hmm.

[00:24:52] And you said something earlier that made me think you have told a couple of people.

[00:24:58] Yeah.

[00:24:58] So my three sisters know, my mom knows, and two of my good friends know.

[00:25:03] That must be a tough thing to share.

[00:25:05] A little bit.

[00:25:06] Thankfully, I'm really close with my three sisters and my mom and these two people in particular.

[00:25:12] But yeah, the guy I told in New York last night, we were talking for about an hour and a half on the phone before I actually brought it up.

[00:25:19] Because it was just like, I don't really know if I can do this right now and kind of get into everything about this, about suicide.

[00:25:27] And then also being like, do I really want to steer the conversation in this way?

[00:25:31] This is pretty heavy.

[00:25:33] Yeah.

[00:25:33] I wonder if these kinds of conversations are innately heavy, which they may be.

[00:25:38] It makes sense.

[00:25:39] But I wonder if there's a possibility that they get a little less heavy just because you sort of quote unquote normalize the conversations.

[00:25:46] I don't even know if that's possible with this subject.

[00:25:48] I'd like to believe it is, but I don't know.

[00:25:49] Yeah, I would hope so too.

[00:25:51] You know, it just seems like the more people talk about things, the more people are aware of it.

[00:25:55] Especially recently, it seems like there is a lot of suicide prevention, suicide awareness happening.

[00:26:00] But that's not the same as conversations.

[00:26:02] This is where I happen to have strong opinions about certain things.

[00:26:05] Of course, sometimes they include conversations.

[00:26:07] Yeah, yeah.

[00:26:08] Yeah.

[00:26:08] And maybe it's just reps, for lack of a better word.

[00:26:11] You know, when people hear it, even if it's only one or two once in a while, like at least they hear somebody talking about it with them.

[00:26:19] On the other end of someone saying to them, whatever it was, last year I did this thing and just practice.

[00:26:24] And I, well, I guess maybe not conversation, but more public consciousness as far as raising awareness and getting people thinking about it a little bit more.

[00:26:33] This is a story I'd personally like to tell and tell publicly as well.

[00:26:37] Especially once I come to understand it more and more after more time has passed.

[00:26:42] Talking about this won't be something I'll shy away from.

[00:26:45] You said you went to the hospital.

[00:26:46] Did you have to go to another kind of hospital or they just took care of the meds in your system and got you cleaned up?

[00:26:51] Yeah, so I didn't have to go to another kind of hospital.

[00:26:54] I woke up in the morning, was really, really woozy.

[00:26:57] The hospital was closed and I was just going to drive there, but there was no way I could drive.

[00:27:01] So an ambulance picked me up and I haven't done like I haven't done any other drugs and have any other alcohol in my system.

[00:27:07] So the ER interpreted it as like, oh, this was a one off, which it was situation.

[00:27:14] And we don't think this guy meets criteria to then check him into a hospital.

[00:27:18] So I was at the ER in the morning.

[00:27:20] I was there for about seven, eight hours.

[00:27:22] That's when they told me the opiates are good.

[00:27:25] What we need to focus on, what concerns us is the pseudometaphine.

[00:27:28] So they gave me a treatment for that and I just hung out in the ER.

[00:27:31] And, you know, a social worker came and that was kind of a joke.

[00:27:35] They just gave me a pamphlet like, here are some resources and, you know, make sure to breathe and think twice and stuff.

[00:27:41] You know, so that I wasn't surprised there.

[00:27:44] I don't think we do the best job at providing people support and the steps they need when they're in these crises.

[00:27:51] So we don't do the best job.

[00:27:54] I want to reframe that.

[00:27:55] My words, not yours.

[00:27:56] I think you're being very kind.

[00:27:58] Yeah.

[00:27:59] We do a horrible job.

[00:28:01] Right.

[00:28:02] We do a fucking horrible.

[00:28:03] Not always.

[00:28:05] Shout out to the caretakers out there.

[00:28:06] Some of you do great work, God's work, whether it's an individual or a system or whatever else.

[00:28:11] A lot of the time, it's exactly what you experienced.

[00:28:14] A fucking pamphlet.

[00:28:15] There's probably a couple of acronyms on there.

[00:28:18] Joe, I know you're going through a tough time.

[00:28:20] So we simplified this.

[00:28:21] Breathe, eat and shit.

[00:28:24] That's well, that's essentially what it felt like.

[00:28:26] I mean, that's that was it to a T when it was just like, all right, their sole purpose is to stabilize my physical body.

[00:28:33] The emotional work is not going to be provided here.

[00:28:35] You said that they didn't think you met a criteria.

[00:28:38] And I'm guessing that you give it given the likely kind of care you would have gotten.

[00:28:43] You are glad you didn't have to go to a place like that.

[00:28:47] Yes.

[00:28:47] If the kinds of places were perhaps they're available to very wealthy people, but if they were readily available in your community where it was just a few days of just like great care.

[00:28:57] However, you define that.

[00:28:58] Would you have taken them up on that offer?

[00:29:00] Oh, yeah, definitely.

[00:29:02] Definitely.

[00:29:02] If I knew I was going to a place where, you know, we were going to be open and there's going to be others there who would attempted and therapists and resources to guide us.

[00:29:12] I totally would have taken advantage of that.

[00:29:14] Yeah.

[00:29:14] Check me in.

[00:29:15] I need I need to decompress from this.

[00:29:18] Right.

[00:29:18] Right.

[00:29:18] Otherwise, you're just getting back into your same truck, going back to your same home, presumably.

[00:29:24] Yeah, it's yeah, it's literally just like back to exactly kind of what got me here.

[00:29:29] So we'll see how this goes.

[00:29:30] Right.

[00:29:31] And look, I understand those types of places, even if they're really well run.

[00:29:34] There's only so much they can do.

[00:29:36] They're not going to buy you a new home somewhere else.

[00:29:38] Well, you're going to have to go back to a lot of the same stuff.

[00:29:41] Sure.

[00:29:41] But but nonetheless, if you just pop somebody back.

[00:29:44] But in your case, even though you went right back, you seem to be in a better spot.

[00:29:48] Yeah.

[00:29:49] You know, making the choice to quit my job and to find a job where I work less hours so I can focus now on therapy, attending the anonymous groups, riding my bicycle, lifting weights and just say, you know what?

[00:30:02] Work and the kind of more conventional path.

[00:30:07] I moved from Montana to Portland so I could be a part of a community that lived a very unconventional life, especially people in their 30s, 40s, 50s.

[00:30:15] That's what I really like about this place.

[00:30:17] So let's just say, fuck it.

[00:30:18] Let's work food service, a mindless job that just provides a means to an end.

[00:30:23] And then let's just do fun things for me.

[00:30:26] Fun things that aren't drugs and aren't wallowing in my sorrows by sitting in the bathtub and just focus on things that bring me back to a place of groundedness and stability and like a positive outlook on life.

[00:30:42] I know I'm not going to make an attempt.

[00:30:44] I'm sure if there's a zombie apocalypse and I'm about to be torn apart.

[00:30:47] Yeah, obviously, who wouldn't take?

[00:30:49] I'd rather take my life than be ripped apart by zombies.

[00:30:51] But that's never going to happen.

[00:30:52] I just know that an attempt for me in the future, I can't say for certain, is very, very, very unlikely.

[00:30:59] And I don't want to exist in this place where suicide's on my mind and maybe playing a bit of the victim mentality, feeling lazy like I'm not actually applying myself and trying.

[00:31:10] So let's just say, fuck society.

[00:31:12] Fuck what they want me to do.

[00:31:14] This path I have in my head about having a linear career where I make more money in the home and the kids and whatever, and just do things that bring me more in touch with my breath and my body and my self-awareness so that I don't jump to the conclusion that the best thing for me is suicide.

[00:31:33] And then ultimately, sure, I'm gone.

[00:31:36] But a couple of my sisters are like, I'll never be able if you kill yourself, I'll never, ever be able to get over this ever.

[00:31:42] Like, it is going to change me in a way that you don't know.

[00:31:46] And, you know, I have the next generation of nieces and nephews coming into my life.

[00:31:50] And they're just like, you just can't give up on us.

[00:31:53] Wow.

[00:31:54] Yeah.

[00:31:55] By the way, I had this shitty thought, not a shitty thought, but I have to just catch myself because like all people I have, you know, there's stereotypes or ideas that you have about men in Montana.

[00:32:06] Yeah.

[00:32:07] I just want to say you're not indicative of that guy.

[00:32:10] Not at all.

[00:32:11] And you're a Montana man who moved to Portland.

[00:32:13] So that's somewhat telling.

[00:32:15] But nonetheless, right.

[00:32:16] Okay.

[00:32:16] Okay.

[00:32:17] I mean, you're not wrong to have that idea of that stereotype of the Montana man in your head.

[00:32:22] You know, like you are very much right.

[00:32:25] And like on paper, if you were to look at me, aircraft mechanic, Ford F-150, Montana, you're going to think all these things.

[00:32:31] And I'm like, wait, no, just give me a second to explain the asterisks next to all those bullet points.

[00:32:36] And then you'll find out like, yeah, I get, I just like, don't feel like I fit in at all there despite wearing camo.

[00:32:43] So we're not going with Montana man as the memoir title.

[00:32:46] I'm open to it.

[00:32:47] We could, but people might just assume it's about grizzly bears and back country and stuff.

[00:32:52] So.

[00:32:52] Right.

[00:32:53] Yeah.

[00:32:53] Okay.

[00:32:54] Okay.

[00:32:54] Options.

[00:32:55] Options.

[00:32:55] Did you have anybody who you told, and I know it's a small group of people who responded in a way that did, was let's say, particularly uncomfortable for you.

[00:33:03] No, at this point, I haven't.

[00:33:05] So far, people who know in my life, I forgot to say two of my aunts know as well.

[00:33:10] Everyone has been really supportive.

[00:33:11] No one's responded in a way that I felt like has brought me shame.

[00:33:16] Guilt.

[00:33:16] Yes.

[00:33:17] Guilt and regret.

[00:33:18] Yes.

[00:33:18] And that's not from what they've said.

[00:33:20] That's just from seeing them be like crying and I love you and what's going on.

[00:33:26] But nothing that makes no hostility.

[00:33:29] So no, no closed offness at all.

[00:33:31] And there have been a couple, one in particular, who's like, I've never told any of this, anyone this before, but I've attempted suicide as well.

[00:33:38] Opening a door.

[00:33:39] Sure.

[00:33:39] It's one of the reasons I think this is valuable, frankly.

[00:33:43] We're just talking about it.

[00:33:44] But yes, there's an asterisk there talking about it.

[00:33:47] Here's my little soapbox moment.

[00:33:48] But you hear all the time, just talk about it.

[00:33:50] It's like, okay, but who are you talking to about it?

[00:33:53] Totally.

[00:33:53] And obviously people know this, but it's like, you said you go to therapy.

[00:33:59] How long have you been in therapy?

[00:34:00] My health insurance transferred.

[00:34:02] So I stopped seeing my therapist in Montana and I've yet to pick up a therapist here in Portland.

[00:34:07] But I've been in and out of therapy for about 10 years, mostly in overwhelming majority, not overwhelming, but a large majority of me and a therapist weren't really compatible.

[00:34:18] Had a couple great ones.

[00:34:20] But I know this is like something that I'm like, okay, I have a very specific acute issue that I can now go to therapy versus kind of going in and being a little vague and all over the place and abstract.

[00:34:33] It's like, this is my problem.

[00:34:34] I tried to kill myself.

[00:34:35] I don't want to kill myself.

[00:34:36] How do I have a better mindset?

[00:34:38] Oh, I guess this is just a technical detail.

[00:34:40] So when talking about attempts, I wanted to go with the least violent method possible, even though my first attempt was thinking about hanging myself.

[00:34:48] So it's just like, I know I won't ever try with a gun.

[00:34:52] I know I won't ever try hanging myself.

[00:34:54] I know I won't jump from a ledge.

[00:34:56] Not to give anyone ideas, you might have to cut this out, but I'd cut the catalytic converter off my truck and run a hose into either my cab or my bed.

[00:35:03] Take sleeping pills, pass out, and then go that means.

[00:35:06] So that was another method I thought of.

[00:35:08] But I just, I don't want to go through the physical pain that would come with those more violent methods.

[00:35:15] That to me is terrifying.

[00:35:17] This is a very, very good segue to the pink and purple pill question.

[00:35:20] Yeah.

[00:35:21] I give Joe a pink and purple pill.

[00:35:24] He can do whatever he wants with it, including taking it right now, saving it away somewhere, throwing it out.

[00:35:29] And should he choose to take it, he goes to sleep, dies peacefully, and nobody knows it's a suicide.

[00:35:36] What do you do with that pill?

[00:35:37] I give it to you right now through Zoom somehow.

[00:35:39] I would, I'd throw it in the trash, grind it up, put it in a plastic bag with a rock, or throw it in the water so it could dissolve and no one could get it.

[00:35:47] Something that just permanently destroys that pill forever.

[00:35:50] Permanently destroyed, symbolic.

[00:35:51] There's some symbolism there too, I think, the way you're going about getting, discarding it.

[00:35:55] Yeah.

[00:35:56] In your 10 on and off years of therapy, did you get a diagnosis that you think is accurate?

[00:36:01] I did not, but I know that I have anxiety and depression.

[00:36:05] That's for sure.

[00:36:06] It's kind of just like, I've come to the point where it's a no brainer.

[00:36:09] I think I got some OCD too, as well.

[00:36:12] Some compulsive thinking, obsessive rumination, never had an official diagnosis.

[00:36:17] If I asked you at, let's say 12 or 22, I'm going by 10 years here, that one day in the future, you would try to take your life.

[00:36:27] What does 12-year-old Joe say? I know you have to speculate here, 22-year-old Joe say.

[00:36:32] I'd be heartbroken. I'd be really sad. That would be something that would make me cry, you know, and also give me anxiety about like, what am I going to go through in the future that's going to lead me to want to make a decision like that.

[00:36:45] Terrifying. You tried a couple of weeks ago. That week, you were thinking about, or at least thinking about trying again.

[00:36:51] But today, as we talk, you are very glad you didn't die.

[00:36:55] Yeah.

[00:36:56] And I brought this up before here and there, and it makes me really think like, if we could somehow magically talk to anybody, everybody, whomever who has ended their life a week after they did it, pick some numbers.

[00:37:06] It doesn't really matter. An hour, a week, a year, 10 years.

[00:37:09] What percentage of them would say, man, I fucking wish I didn't do it?

[00:37:13] And that's not a loaded question. I'm not looking for necessarily a number here.

[00:37:16] I'm just like, wow.

[00:37:17] Yeah.

[00:37:17] Sure, there are some.

[00:37:19] Oh, absolutely.

[00:37:20] And for sure, there are some that would say, no, I'm good with what happened.

[00:37:23] And I'm, you know, who knows, but it makes you wonder.

[00:37:25] I would put it at over half.

[00:37:27] You know, I'm not going to say like 80, 90%, but I would say 50 to 60, you know, total ballpark.

[00:37:33] But I have to imagine that a lot of people who make this decision do so impulsively without a lot of thinking and foresight to how it's going to affect others in their life and to completely negate all the possibilities that lie ahead.

[00:37:51] And there's also the selfish part that I think about suicide is that if I had gone through with that, it would have been a big fat fuck you to everyone that's ever tried to help me or done anything for me in my life.

[00:38:04] Right.

[00:38:04] So that's another thing that keeps me going is thinking about everyone who stuck their necks out for me and saw something in me, even if it was little or big.

[00:38:14] So now I don't want to let those people or those opportunities down, you know, whether it's my mom or whether it's an old boss.

[00:38:22] But again, I really don't want to shame anybody into feeling like if they are thinking about this and if they think this is the best option for them, I am in no position to tell you whether or not it is or is not.

[00:38:37] You know, I do think there are situations in which suicide is justifiable.

[00:38:42] And I completely understand.

[00:38:43] I do think there are reasons to kill yourself.

[00:38:46] So when I talk about suicide, I am talking about just how it reflects solely on me.

[00:38:52] And I hope no one takes this as a projection of their experience because I do not know what their lived experience is like at all.

[00:39:01] When you said that also, I was just thinking, I think a lot of people, and this is in part based on the conversations I've had, like they are kind of thinking the way you were thinking in terms of how it would affect people and the other things you brought up.

[00:39:11] My mind goes to it.

[00:39:12] That's how much pain they're in.

[00:39:13] You know, it's almost like even almost for me, like evidence that it was that bad.

[00:39:17] Yeah.

[00:39:18] Complicated stuff.

[00:39:19] Yeah.

[00:39:19] And I guess I like to think about it in terms of like the energy that this pain is all consuming is not going to be destroyed once I destroyed my physical body.

[00:39:28] It's just going to be transferred.

[00:39:30] You know, the whole energy isn't destroyed.

[00:39:31] It's transferred.

[00:39:32] I truly believe the emotional pain is just transferred onto my loved ones dispersed everywhere.

[00:39:38] It's sure it's not a complete version of it, but it is some passing on to somebody else.

[00:39:42] Well, any myths or misconceptions you want to dispel?

[00:39:45] I mean, they've kind of come up here and there as we talked organically, but any others that you want to call bullshit on?

[00:39:51] Nothing that I can think of other than, you know, hammering home the point that there is no shame in suicide.

[00:39:57] Or if you think about it, if you go through with it, like that's not your choice.

[00:40:02] Ultimately, it is your life and what you choose to do with it is up to you.

[00:40:06] I just hope that for those who struggle, such as me, just try to hang on, you know, just try to give it 24 hours, 48 hours.

[00:40:14] Just do what you got to do to not take your life.

[00:40:17] When we said earlier, drugs addiction, which I'm kind of grouping together on dumb stuff.

[00:40:22] DAD is the acronym if you're wondering.

[00:40:25] Sorry, dad's out there.

[00:40:27] Sorry, it's not meant to work out that way.

[00:40:30] But your addiction was mainly to marijuana?

[00:40:33] Yeah, marijuana.

[00:40:34] Yeah.

[00:40:34] Heavy, heavy.

[00:40:35] And you say you're in the program?

[00:40:37] Yeah.

[00:40:37] So I attend the anonymous program, loosely Alcoholics Anonymous.

[00:40:41] I don't feel like I've ever been addicted to alcohol, but I know that some of the most serious regrets I have in my life are because of alcohol.

[00:40:48] So I attend Alcoholics Anonymous and then just started Marijuana's Anonymous too.

[00:40:53] Helping?

[00:40:53] Yeah, it does.

[00:40:54] It helps to connect with other addicts and other people who have been very, very low in life and who there is probably a lot of people in those rooms who have also very seriously thought about suicide or even attempted.

[00:41:07] You know, it's not something that has come up in the rooms, but I know they're in there.

[00:41:12] For sure.

[00:41:13] And the dumb stuff?

[00:41:14] We talked about some of that.

[00:41:16] Your words, not mine.

[00:41:17] Yeah, the dumb stuff, you know, that's just like driving under the influence, which has potential to hurt me or others.

[00:41:24] But that's, you know, that's stupid.

[00:41:26] Spending money on stupid shit.

[00:41:28] Going out, wasting time.

[00:41:30] And, you know, just especially like around finances and choices about making stupid decisions that are like, I want to escape this moment.

[00:41:38] So I'm going to make this decision and sacrifice long-term pleasure or short-term gratification.

[00:41:45] Yeah.

[00:41:45] And I think the dumb stuff comes into just trying to find some humor in all of this, just in addiction and suicide, trying to just be a little bit more having moments of being lighthearted about it and remembering the absurdity, the life.

[00:42:01] I think I should do a thing where I start asking people that hear an episode, like, send me the memoir title that you want Joe's memoir to be.

[00:42:09] And I don't have them emailed to me.

[00:42:12] I have them do it as a review on Apple because that helps my algorithm.

[00:42:16] Yeah.

[00:42:17] Because they're not doing it.

[00:42:18] Oh, this is a really good opportunity to remind people to rate and review the Suicide Noted podcast because it helps people find the damn podcast.

[00:42:25] Yeah.

[00:42:26] And it helps.

[00:42:27] Like, I mean, I typed in all I did to type into suicide into Apple podcast.

[00:42:31] And this was the first one that came up.

[00:42:33] And this is the one that I consistently feel like every week there's somebody else talking about their experience with suicide.

[00:42:39] I haven't found any other podcasts like it.

[00:42:41] You know, usually it's a psychologist or some TED talk or something.

[00:42:45] So it's this reminds me of that that podcast, Dopey, where it's just people getting fucking real and there's no bullshit about their experience.

[00:42:55] I know you like riding your bike.

[00:42:57] I know you mentioned you have a dog.

[00:42:59] What kind of dog?

[00:43:00] Border Collie, German Shepherd.

[00:43:02] She's right here laying on the seat.

[00:43:04] Oh, black girl or boy?

[00:43:06] Girl.

[00:43:07] Her name's Ollie.

[00:43:08] She's 10 years old.

[00:43:09] I've had her for nine years.

[00:43:10] So.

[00:43:10] Wow.

[00:43:11] Yeah, it's funny.

[00:43:12] She's a little opposite to me.

[00:43:13] She's the most emotionally stable and secure animal I've ever met.

[00:43:17] Just like a solid.

[00:43:18] She doesn't break.

[00:43:19] And it's usually at a very high baseline.

[00:43:22] So.

[00:43:23] Awesome.

[00:43:23] She's pretty.

[00:43:24] Both of you have long hair.

[00:43:25] We do.

[00:43:26] Yes.

[00:43:26] The observational skills I've got, Joe.

[00:43:29] That only comes with the ear.

[00:43:31] That comes when you do a video Zoom.

[00:43:33] That's right.

[00:43:33] It helps to be a video sometimes.

[00:43:35] I usually talk about the past, a lot about the present.

[00:43:38] Sometimes I sort of think about the future when I talk with people.

[00:43:41] But if I emailed you or contacted you in a year and said, hey, Joe, doing updates.

[00:43:47] You'll get it.

[00:43:48] From what you're sharing, you're going to be alive.

[00:43:50] What's one thing that you want to be talking about in a year about your life that maybe we aren't talking about now?

[00:43:55] I would like to talk more about, you know, I talked about, I guess, a little bit.

[00:43:59] But being like, yes, in the last year, I've prioritized myself and my own physical and emotional health.

[00:44:06] And these are the steps I've taken to do that.

[00:44:09] And this is the result of doing that and of sticking through like, no, I'm going to commit to this even though it's hard because I know this is the best thing for me.

[00:44:20] And this is going to create a better future for tomorrow.

[00:44:22] So, yeah, in a year, it would be cool to, like, hypothetically speaking, if we were to just be like, yes, I have stuck to that plan.

[00:44:29] And this is how I've done it.

[00:44:30] And this is how much better I feel because of it.

[00:44:33] Unless before that year comes, there's a zombie apocalypse.

[00:44:37] In which case, yes, I will have likely probably be out.

[00:44:41] Why is it always a zombie?

[00:44:43] Why not a different kind of apocalypse?

[00:44:45] I guess there could be a nuclear holocaust.

[00:44:47] Could be a meteorite in which it just like vaporizes most of us already.

[00:44:51] It could be a, what is that?

[00:44:53] Children of men situation, which humans just can no longer have kids and everyone freaks out.

[00:44:58] Could be another COVID.

[00:44:59] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:45:00] So I guess zombies are a little bit more.

[00:45:02] They're just so in our culture that maybe that's what everyone defaults to.

[00:45:06] Did you go out for Halloween to dress up?

[00:45:08] No, I didn't.

[00:45:09] I'd actually just moved into a new house, spent it with my roommates.

[00:45:12] And like I said earlier, with the election, it not being on my mind, I'm like, I'm sorry.

[00:45:17] Processing the fact that I attempted suicide is like way more at the forefront of my executive

[00:45:24] thinking right now than whether or not the election goes left or right.

[00:45:29] Whether you're in Montana or Oregon, it doesn't matter.

[00:45:32] Not that it matters.

[00:45:33] I am liberal.

[00:45:33] Also, I did vote for Kamala.

[00:45:35] Not that you're going to put that in your podcast or podcast.

[00:45:39] You can't.

[00:45:39] Well, yeah, you can't.

[00:45:40] Yeah, it's your podcast.

[00:45:41] Do whatever the fuck you want.

[00:45:42] But Dustin in Montana was 100% pro Trump.

[00:45:45] It's cool.

[00:45:46] Whatever.

[00:45:46] I just didn't know if you don't want to make it political.

[00:45:49] So it's not political by saying who you I don't think that makes it political.

[00:45:52] You're talking about your fucking life.

[00:45:54] Yeah.

[00:45:54] So let everyone know there's some diversity.

[00:45:56] I'm from Montana, born and raised and 32 years there.

[00:45:59] And I have been blue as blue gets.

[00:46:02] So.

[00:46:02] Oh, okay.

[00:46:03] A little bit of an oasis there.

[00:46:04] Trying to find the trying to find your blue people in a red state.

[00:46:07] Yeah.

[00:46:08] Maybe it's one of the reddest states, I believe.

[00:46:10] Yeah.

[00:46:11] Wyoming might be up there, too.

[00:46:13] Yeah.

[00:46:13] Maybe Alabama.

[00:46:14] Mr. Joe in Oregon.

[00:46:16] What else would you like to share with me and the audience?

[00:46:18] I guess going back to that thought of do people regret, like do people who have completed suicide wish they hadn't if we could ask them?

[00:46:28] And this is just kind of a random thing.

[00:46:31] But, you know, there's always that thing I've heard of when someone jumps off a bridge, majority of people who survive usually end up regretting it.

[00:46:39] Is that right?

[00:46:40] That's what I've heard.

[00:46:41] But I always feel like, why do you ask people that have jumped off a bridge?

[00:46:45] Why don't you ask people that have taken pills or used other methods as well?

[00:46:50] And I know this isn't really a nice conclusion.

[00:46:53] Joe, we'll wrap it up with a nice fucking bow and move to Disney World if you want.

[00:46:59] You were saying, why don't they ask about non-bridge attempts in terms of regret?

[00:47:03] I don't know the percentage of people who have gone through a suicide, whether or not they have regretted it.

[00:47:10] But all I would say to people is just maybe take another day or another hour to just really think if that was the right choice.

[00:47:19] Because speaking from someone who attempted and it didn't work out, you know, albeit I was disappointed the morning after, maybe a few days after.

[00:47:28] Ultimately, I regret doing it and I'm glad it didn't work out.

[00:47:32] I'm glad to be here still.

[00:47:34] You know, back to that memoir title, I think the thing that saved my life is trying to take my life.

[00:47:39] So just talk about it, reach out, get help if you need, support the podcast.

[00:47:44] Whoa, yes, that's a good.

[00:47:46] I did not tell Joe to say that, but he is so right.

[00:47:49] Yeah.

[00:47:50] The podcast.

[00:47:51] Support destigmatization of suicide.

[00:47:54] There's our bow.

[00:47:55] There's our bow.

[00:47:56] What's the rest of your day like?

[00:47:57] You working?

[00:47:57] You biking?

[00:47:58] You hanging out with your dog?

[00:47:59] Yeah, I'm going to go to my storage shed, get some stuff out of there.

[00:48:02] I'm going to go to the public library.

[00:48:04] I have to figure out my now, my $2,000 ambulance bill and my, you know, $7,000 ER bill.

[00:48:10] So that's kind of a fun byproduct of surviving suicide and having to go to the hospital.

[00:48:15] So figure that out.

[00:48:16] Write up a workout plan.

[00:48:18] We're not even going there, but you sort of activated something to me that pisses me off.

[00:48:22] Oh, yeah.

[00:48:23] Well, we said we were going to end with a bow.

[00:48:26] All right.

[00:48:26] From Chapel Hill, North Carolina to Portland, Oregon, Joe, I really do appreciate you connecting

[00:48:32] and sharing, particularly given, I mean, let's just say it.

[00:48:36] I mean, it was recent.

[00:48:37] So yeah, I appreciate you finding the time in your truck with your dog.

[00:48:43] Yeah.

[00:48:43] Thanks, Sean.

[00:48:44] Everybody.

[00:48:44] Take care.

[00:48:45] Thanks again, man.

[00:48:45] Talk to you soon.

[00:48:46] Yeah.

[00:48:46] Sounds good.

[00:48:47] Bye.

[00:48:47] Bye, Joe.

[00:48:51] As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support.

[00:48:54] Special thanks to Joe out in Oregon.

[00:48:57] Thank you, Joe.

[00:48:58] If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:49:02] Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or X at Suicide Noted.

[00:49:07] And you can check the show notes to learn more about this podcast, including our membership

[00:49:12] and our new training.

[00:49:15] Check it out.

[00:49:16] It is going to be very, very cool.

[00:49:18] I hope you can be a part of that.

[00:49:20] You can learn more at notedtraining.com.

[00:49:23] However you're involved, however you support.

[00:49:26] Thank you very much.

[00:49:27] And that is all for episode number 239.

[00:49:30] Stay strong.

[00:49:31] Do the best you can.

[00:49:33] I'll talk to you soon.