Jo in California

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: There's always this idea of like, well you don't understand how you're going to hurt the people that you leave behind.

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I fucking know what kind of devastation it would cause.

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that I'm doing it to them on purpose, but it's a selfish to take your life.

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like it's selfish for you to want me to stay here just because you would be hurt.

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_01]: You just want me to suffer so that you're not sad.

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of how it feels sometimes.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted.

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_00]: On this podcast, I talk with Suicide attempts survivors to that we can hear their stories.

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_00]: We certainly don't talk about it enough.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And when we do talk about it, many of us, including me, we're not very good at it.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Not only better conversations with attempt survivors in large part, to help more people in more places,

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_00]: hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Now if you are a Suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, it's SuicideNoted.com on Facebook or X at Suicide Noted.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You can learn more about the podcast, including our membership in the show notes and a giant thanks to

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'll say an anonymous contributor who gave us a nice chunk of money which really, really helps.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And if that's something you're curious about learning more again, you can go to the show notes

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and you can learn more about the membership or also have the option to give a one time contribution.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_00]: One other way you can help us a lot is to rate and review this podcast.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you haven't done that already, I would really appreciate it.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: However, you are involved. Thank you very much.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Finally we're talking about Suicide on this podcast and I don't hold back.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So please take that into account before you listen or as you listen.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_00]: But I do hope you listen because there's so much to learn.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Today I am talking with Joe. Joe lives in California and they are a suicide attempt survivor.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Joe.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_00]: If I had to guess Joe, I would say that there are more people in California that try to end their lives

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and anywhere else simply because there are more people.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Just a tough statistics work.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for doing this with me.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for providing me opportunity.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to talk about your life, particularly around suicide.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the world will hear it. By the world, I don't mean the world.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_01]: They just mean like some people listeners of this podcast.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. I'll say stuff and then you please clarify so the audience can understand.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Because seriously, I suck at that.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_00]: The people who listen who are called listeners, thanks Joe,

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_00]: are going to hear you. Isn't that weird?

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_01]: It is weird.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like this whole setup of actually seeing you on video and talking versus,

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, versus listening is it's a bit of a mind thought.

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I always think if it were me and I do this,

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_00]: where I'm like, I wonder what that person that I listen to every week looks like.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you connect a voice, you never, everyone does this right?

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You connect a voice with a face of some kind and your voice.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_01]: You would say, oh, just some bald guy in New York or now,

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_01]: so you said you're from New York.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Caroline, I'm from New York.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, didn't connect to I thought you looked like.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So even though I said, I'm bald, you still pictured me with her.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, my brain wanted that and like no, this is bald.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_01]: But like my brain still.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But how did you stumble upon this?

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_00]: How and why I suppose are the questions?

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I've definitely heard other people say that's on the podcast,

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_01]: but who is suicidal and looking for suicide content,

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_01]: search that in Apple podcasts and years was like one of the top ones.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, again, sure, okay, why not.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And I started listening and I liked it one thing

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: that I liked about it was that you weren't,

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_01]: we're not trying to do any sort of intervention as people talk.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Did like, oh, do you know the hotline number or,

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, have you considered all these like safety plans

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_01]: stuff?

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a social worker and so I'm the one who always has to deliver those.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was really interesting for you just to talk and let them talk

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and like, was just really open and I like that a lot.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So that kind of one of the things that came listening

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_01]: was that I was just a real conversation without having to deal with that kind of bullshit.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty pretty straightforward to me, but

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's a novel thing.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Still for years later, like, well, yeah.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I think especially because for I'm assuming

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_01]: a majority of us who have been on the or listened to the podcast,

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: we've already heard all of it.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm like, trust me, I know those resources.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I know what you're going to tell me.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to hear it again, and it feels really like,

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just brushing me off and like what I'm feeling

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_01]: or thinking of my story.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And I appreciate those kind words we have,

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_00]: or I have been blessed to have spoken now and hear the stories from people

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_00]: from all over the world.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to get every country in, but I'm a far, far...

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I just still a few states I haven't gotten to.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Let alone all the countries.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I got a long way to go, Joe.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been impressed by the diversity of places that you've had.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: But so, it's so incredible the idea that you have a phone with

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Apple Podcasts to Spotify and boom.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: It's right there.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: There's always been come up in the search.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So I tell people to rate and review the podcast.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Joe, you know what to get time right now for me to tell our

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_00]: listening audience?

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Stop this because you can come back and you won't miss anything.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you rate and review the podcast,

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Joe and California are ex-Synastonia, whoever else anywhere.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_00]: They do you understand listeners how they might think it's just

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_00]: for my ego.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't understand the algorithm.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Apparently some other people are finding it all over.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's cool.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Enough about the damn podcast.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Enough about me.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_00]: My bald fucking head.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_00]: No one cares.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_00]: What I do want to say is unlike me.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You are not bald.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I sure not.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I will not give anything else away about you other than you

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: or you like me or blurry background on Zoom.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: We know your social worker because you share that.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: We know your name is Joe because you've tried to kill yourself.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_00]: More than once?

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Six times.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: First time was how old?

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_01]: 17.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_00]: How old do you now?

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm 27.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_00]: In about a decade, six attempts.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Check out this map.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_00]: None successful.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_00]: This comes only after four years of doing this work,

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and you're 27 now.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So 17 was the first.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And then was the last one.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And November.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So 2627.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious to know if you can recall the first time you started thinking about it.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Also, I had a pretty abusive childhood.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I think always there's this kind of underlying like I don't want to be here.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_01]: When I was younger, didn't necessarily wait to thinking about suicide.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It was just pushing.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't here.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_01]: When I was 13, I just started high school.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I had gone from my upbringing.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: There's also super religious conservative fundamentalist of fun things.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And so in that process of all the fun things, I had majority been home school or private

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Christian school up until high school.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: In high school, I started at public high school.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_01]: The culture shock was such a whip nish.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought that high school was going to be like, like, Disney Channel.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Where everybody like loved me and I would talk to it.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And then that was not true.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't understand kind of like the social rules.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And I had a really hard time making friends really lonely.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_01]: That point was when I started to like, notice they become depressed.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Again, kind of that feeling of like, I don't want to be here.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_01]: But at that point, I had started to learn.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even remember where but like the ideas of like cutting or suicide or anything like that.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_01]: That point started self-harming pretty badly.

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Starting like that was kind of the slippery slope to like, this isn't enough.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I don't want to be here at then in my freshman year was the first time that I was like,

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I legitimately like, I can't be here anymore.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it related also when you say you're cutting?

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You said it went for us the pretty slope.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So does that mean at least in part?

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_00]: This isn't working enough.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's nothing else that will help.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So dot dot dot.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_01]: It didn't feel like it really for me about more like a punishment.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Like a self- punishment.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_01]: It almost was like this isn't.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I just shouldn't be here if that makes sense.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_00]: None of this really makes sense.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_00]: We're just trying to find words.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but then at the end of my freshman year,

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I'm going to do it.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to kill myself.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to do it over the weekend and on Friday for some reason that I still can't quite place.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I decided to tell my mom how I was feeling.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and she took me to my doctor.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I got started on an eight presence for the first time.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I grew my sophomore junior beginning of senior year off and on different antidepressants.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I did start therapy.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_01]: It was with a Christian therapist and in retrospect,

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_01]: that was not very good therapy but it's fine.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't bad for say, but I wasn't good.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It was kind of just like there was like little episodes of like feeling worse.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_01]: But for the most part it's kind of like, I'm here.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And then my senior year, let's switch to a new high school.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I had the whole like, I don't have friends here.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't. This is.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I know he wasn't strictly because of like, oh, I don't have friends.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I think just that not having friends made me especially aware of my own self with no distraction.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was at the time not something that I not a person that I liked or felt comfortable in

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: or you know, stuck in my own head and my head was not a good place to be at that time, especially.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I asked 17 year old Joe, what do you really dislike about yourself?

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Would you be able to answer that then or now?

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was that I wasn't like whatever it was.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't good enough. Like it didn't matter when I tried.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I was straight a student.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like perfect church kid.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I went like, I did everything perfectly and like it wasn't good enough in my family.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that translated to like, I'm not good enough.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not even good enough to have friends.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm just like, why am I even here if this isn't enough?

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think like I couldn't name exactly what was, but I'm like, I don't know what it is, but it's not working beautifully.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So senior year I had that kind of feeling, but I sort of I was like okay, whatever just buckle down and get through the year.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_01]: There was prom in the spring and I was like, I actually got a date to prom, but it was like, oh, this is exciting.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I ended up getting assaulted at prom.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, that obviously didn't help anything.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: After words was having like started having panic attacks at school.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I was super paranoid about things.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I completely just went off the bed once again, told my mom about it.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And she told me that I should have just said no.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And then she took me back to the Christian therapist and she also told me that I should have just said no.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00]: It's worth repeating here because you don't know who's listening.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And somebody says that to you or others, it can have that kind of impact.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I was I was floundering of like, I feel horrible.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, prom is supposed to be a fun thing and I was so excited that like, I actually got a date.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I was like, someone wants to be with you.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_01]: But then to have my parent who is supposed to be the one to help me or care for me,

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: be like, no, that was your fault.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Again, like you didn't do it good enough.

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_00]: That's already the lens.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It's only just going to amplify it by a lot.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Anyhow, I know where this is leading because it was originally framed as so what happened on that first attempt.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to lead up to it.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So this happens and you said that was the final straw so to speak.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, also I later, I've since been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but that came later.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_01]: But at that point, I didn't know at the time, but it pushed me into a manic episode.

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Like it just was like, shh, snap, snapped.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I went crazy.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I mean, that's not crazy.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Not a tremendous news, but like how it felt was like, oh my god, I am going crazy.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Certainly wasn't sleeping.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I was sleeping like maybe two hours a night and I could get up to school next day.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I just felt awful.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And finally, one day was like, I can't do this.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I can't do this anymore.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that, not super planned, but I was like, I'm going to get my wrist.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that night, like snuck into the kitchen and accidentally grabbed the dullest knife and drawer.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And so it didn't work at all.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And I ended up, well, that didn't work.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm going to just take some pills.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And retrospect, I'm like, that was like not enough pills to do anything.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But I took those and then I went back to my room.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_01]: My mom heard me.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_01]: She came into the room and I was like, I was on the floor.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_01]: She came up and was like, oh, it's like, are you okay?

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And then she saw me holding, I had taken the bottle with me.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And then she saw like my shitty job on my wrist.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And the first thing she said was like, if you were going to do it, at least you could have done it right.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Your mother, that's called her church going kind of folk.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_00]: It may wrong is it a denomination religion in which the primary or only person that is all powerful,

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_00]: name is Jesus Christ.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So as far as I understand, in every Christian church in the world,

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: the man I'm not Christian, main thing basically is to just be a little bit more like him.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Am I kind of getting it right?

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's the intent.

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And everybody fails because we're not God.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, is it fair to say that your mother failed?

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's all.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Is there a point in which no matter what you call yourself, you're not the thing?

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's not how Christianity worked.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_00]: If you say stuff like that in my weird mind, I'm like, there's nothing about you that's Christian.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, see for them they as long as they do this Christ into their heart and were saved,

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_01]: it doesn't matter what they do.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Like grace covers that and like gets rid of all the sin for whatever.

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Like they say, oh, if Hitler accepted Jesus right before he died, then we'll see him and have it.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you said it perfectly.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Grace covers them.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Kiss kiss.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Love your dress.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: See you next Sunday.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, you probably felt like fucking shit after she said that.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I already was feeling like fuck shit.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Why?

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I just tried to kill myself.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Like thanks, mom.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And there were every group of people that are already feeling like shit.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: It is people who have tried to end their lives.

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_00]: That's just the given.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_00]: What happens after me?

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And so then they took me to the hospital.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I was put on the 50-50 psych in voluntary psych you had to hold for 72 hours.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Once I was like medically cleared up hospital, I was taken to the psych hospital.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_01]: My parents had always told us that, I don't know, we went to sleep over something.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Like if you want to come home, well, always come big you up.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_01]: You can always come home.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was the first time I went to the psych hospital.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I could not call him big me up even if I wanted to.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I am legally not allowed to leave here.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And I because I was a minor and the hospital was for adults.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_01]: They had to put me in this like little separate room with like a window.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Like it was unlike anything I'd ever heard of or and at that point, I thought I was scared straight of like I'm never doing this again.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_01]: That was such a stupid decision.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I talked to the like the clinician there.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_01]: She made a safety plan with me and like a plan with my parents, all the things to do right when I got out.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, don't do where I'm going to do all of them.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Like this is not happening again.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I got home.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_01]: My finished graduating high school.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And just to be there, there's no way you're doing it again.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Mainly because you don't want to go to that place.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Not placed specifically, but it was like this whole situation I don't want to.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I know for sure that didn't work out.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So when you say you finish high school and then like a hard question, I don't usually ask this question.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want like what's the scar from that?

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_00]: There's got to be some lingering thing.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not a small thing.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You can get on with it.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_01]: But really, are I tell me?

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, the thing that always stick to me to meditate is what my mom told sent to me.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I still think about that to this day of like going back to like not good enough and like, wow, even trying to kill myself.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I was not good enough.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_01]: That's still sticks with me.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And just like I could not ever imagine looking at my child in such distress and saying like, oh, you should have tried better to kill yourself.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_01]: That was I would say that's the scar from that quick digression that will get back.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_00]: But do you have a relationship with your mother today?

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't talk to other migrants.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_00]: How old were you in that severed?

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It's severed multiple times.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_01]: But like the final sever was after my attempt to know, ever.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_00]: If I would ask either of your parents and a few sentences tell me about Joe or is that awkward or sensitive question?

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I don't, it's an awkward or sensitive but I honestly don't know.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel like their Christians, I would come out and be like, oh, like we pray for them and like just like they've strayed but we love them and like,

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_01]: but on the inside, they might be like, that's our, that's our problem of child.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm the one who left religion, all of my siblings are still walk the line of what my parents want.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Like the one who's like, I got religion, I'm queer.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't move to Idaho with them.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I like that was a tough one.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And so, graduate high school and then for the next up until about 2016.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: In that time, I started working.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I had the opportunity to travel.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I went to school often on just taking a class or two here there and still kind of, I don't remember if I was on meds at that point.

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_01]: But I was just again kind of like high school where was like, that bad but it's not good.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And then in 2016, I started feeling really depressed again.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was supposed to actually go, I was supposed to move to France to be a nanny.

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was really excited about it.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It was going to be a whole thing and then literally a week before I was supposed to leave,

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I can't do this.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm depressed.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to move to France and like die.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Literally like I'm my die.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So I stayed home.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I talked to my pastor at that point and he was like, oh, well, if you tell people how you're feeling,

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_01]: they can support you.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I told people at my church how is feeling.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And they were like, don't worry.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to pray for you.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_01]: You should pray too.

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_01]: But you can think I've been doing it.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I feel like prayer is a good thing.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a form of gossip, especially when it's like, oh, they're going through this.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_01]: You should pray for them to about other people.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like why don't you just go and be like, oh, did you hear that?

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica went and did this thing.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So, but I told people and they ported me in the way that a church person was.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like praying all the time reading my Bible like,

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_01]: frankly, like I was like in such misery trying to find a way to like fix the depression,

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_01]: but also being stuck in a church environment that was like, like when I was like, oh,

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe I should get on meds.

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It was like the kind of, well, you can get on meds.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_01]: But you could also pray harder.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't get on meds for a long time because I was so, I felt so judged for it or like,

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_01]: reminted against it.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_00]: If you had passed away or even if we had framed this,

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So what do you think led to Joe's attempt?

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a hard thing to know, right?

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably rather complicated.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_00]: If you ask most people about someone's attempt, anybody's attempt,

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_00]: in my experience they would say something like they were depressed or they didn't get the right treatment.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you wouldn't hear much of, I don't think all they did was pray for it.

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_00]: That's one of the reasons.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So by doing that, they're not doing other things.

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, but like you said, that's what they know and I would imagine a large percentage actually believe it.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And also there's this whole idea of like suffering brings you closer to God.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And I literally had people tell me like, oh, like you should be grateful for this because it brings you closer to God.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, so that was kind of the end of 2016 and then beginning of 2017,

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_01]: 2017 was like one of the worst years of my life.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Four of my attempts happened that year.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_01]: So first one wasn't January.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_01]: At that point, I was just so, I was like, I'm so depressed.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And I know what he's helping me.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's no way out of this and I can't.

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I ended up intentionally crashing my car along the lines of my mom telling me I could have done it better.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: My dad, both of my parents were law enforcement, highway patrol.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And my dad told me like, oh, the spot you picked was terrible.

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So again, I'm like, it's all right, didn't do it good enough with that one.

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_01]: It was ambiguous enough that people couldn't be sure with this suicide attempt.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't say it, but there's kind of like they suspected.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember my parents, they brought me home.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even go to hospital because it wasn't bad enough.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I just got like with less, but they brought me home and they put a bell on my door that night.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Just in case I like wanted to leave my room and do something.

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_01]: They would have killed a whole jingle, which actually still kind of find funny.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So that happened and then they were a little bit more on alert.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_01]: It was like, okay, I got to do something.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And at that point, I just I didn't fucking need you on meds.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_01]: The type of med that I got on triggered a man against.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And I started trying different meds and like kind of doing the whole up and down roller coaster to like stabilize.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And it seemed like the harder I just stabilized, the less stable I was.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_01]: This was April right beginning of April and I got to church one day and I was like, I was fucking losing it.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And after service, I was like, I can't do this. I can't.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I left church and I walked 10 miles.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to walk along with me.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I didn't have anything with me.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I found a finding a tuna camp on the ground.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And I like took the lid and tried to cut my wrists again.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And it didn't work as tuna can though.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very sharp apparently.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I was walking and I started deciding like I'm going to go to beach and like jump in the ocean.

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_01]: But on my way, ironically, my sister and law's parents were having to be driving by and they saw me.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I called my parents and my parents zoomed over and they found me.

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And I honestly still impressed by this, but my mom jumped out of car and like football tackle me.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_01]: She dackled me, my dad came and like helped hold me down and then the sheriff arrived.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_01]: My mom asked like, oh, like are you going to take him to jail?

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And then it was like, no, it's not a crime to be mentally unstable.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And then my dad helped him hand-puff me, which was like damn, my dad's arrested a lot of people in his day.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And the last one he arrested was, oh, good.

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm arrested. You know, hand-puff me, yes.

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_01]: They put me in the sheriff car and I remember the sheriff saying like, don't bite me.

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was like the front of this thing from my mind.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm not gonna bite you like what are you doing?

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. And they drove me back to the same mental hospital I did before.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_01]: But this time I ended up staying there for a week.

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Then I got out.

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I was only out for like, I don't know, maybe a couple weeks.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Volunteerly read mid in myself.

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_01]: This depression says suicidal ideation will still wear.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I got out again for maybe like a week and then I went back for like a few more days.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And then that last time that I was back,

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's told me that I was doing it for attention.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, well fuck you.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not gonna, like, you're not gonna know next time.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm not gonna sell anybody from, I see it was like May up until July.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I started planning a suicide attempt.

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Like it was perfectly plans.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Two months of planning, you're pretty serious.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_01]: It was almost like compulsive at that point.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I, it felt like I had like a terminal illness.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was like just waiting for the day.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like sad about losing.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not gonna be able to see like my niece grow up or like I'm not gonna be able to even go to this restaurant.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I like, you know, and I wrote so many letters.

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I like researched the method like extensively all of the things.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Like even down to the date of like, I have to pick a date that's not like when the anniversary falls on it.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not too close to like a holiday or my birthday or anything.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So that it's like separate.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And so under the day came, I went to the church that morning from like a Bible study.

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And I like said by the people they didn't know was the same vibe.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, then I came home.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I went into the bathroom and I locked the door and I wrote a note and like stuck it to the door of like,

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_01]: if you see this don't come in, you call the police, then I overdozed on a bunch of pills.

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_01]: After I overdozed, I was like, well, I'm gonna text one of my friends who I know are the ever checks their phone.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And just be like, hey, by type of thing.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And of course that was the day that you checked in like two minutes.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And immediately I started getting a bunch of calls and texts.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I started like freaking out was like, shit.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, meaning for that to happen that fast.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm not even feeling any effects when he's pillged yet.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I heard the door open.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_01]: One of the guys from the church was calling my name.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And like, walked in the house and he saw the note on the door and like, I immediately like busted down the door.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I tried her in a way. He like tackled me, helped me down until the police arrived.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And at that point, I was started like hallucinating spiders because of the meds.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, tripping inside and the aunties arrived and the police there all kept saying, like, oh,

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_01]: they're like playing possum or they're possuming.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_01]: At the time I was like, what does that mean?

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_01]: But then I realized like, oh, they probably think that I'm just like pretending that I can't move or talk or anything.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, no, I actually like, I'm tripping it.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And then also I'm like, they're asking, what did you take?

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm telling you what I took, is that you're going to treat me anyway.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And then they took me to hospital. I ended up being the ICU for three days.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And then they sent me out of the area like five hours away to a different psych hospital.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was probably one of the worst psych hospitals I've been in.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_01]: They like, I got there and the first nurse who did my intake, he asked me if I was religious.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, yes, and he's like, well, like, if you had made it to a side, you would have gone to hell.

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, thanks man. And they made me sleep in this room right next to the nurse's station that had like a light on and like a window in the door.

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like crying and they wouldn't let me go anywhere because they're like, no, we're like upset.

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't. So I just want to go hide somewhere and cry for a minute. Like, this has been a lot.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But at that point, I knew exactly what to do in terms of like, okay, I'll take my meds.

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you then I'm fine. I'll participate in all the activities like perfect psych patient.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And after 72 hours it's like, what are you going to do? Tell me I can't leave?

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I did all things you asked. And there is a couple of the nurse that I could tell they were like, this is bullshit. But we can't do anything about it.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And when I left, this is about kind of the icing on the cake. They gave me my belongings bag back and in the belongings bag was the bottle of pills that I had used.

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And I would like, I guess, seriously?

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: That was the fourth attempt. Yes.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So just to be clear, 17 year old, knife and pills, 2017 car, then wrist almost ocean, then overdose.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So the fifth one before the more recent one is later in 2017 after you get out of the hospital.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the 2017 was a little closer to the hospital.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So I got out of the hospital. I did not sleep.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't count this as an attempt, but I had some people might like, I bought more pills.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I took the bus all the way to the end of the line where it stopped.

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I walked 10 more miles and I was going to take the pills and then something.

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And me, I was like, no, I'm not going to do it. I threw the pills and the bushes and I called my best friend to pick me up in the middle of the night on the side of the road way out in the old car.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Then after that happened the next morning. So I got out of the hospital and Tuesday the next morning.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, and Tuesday night was when I did the all the pills.

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And next day, I was like, I got to move to this town. That's three hours away because they have better mental health resources.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So I got into the hospital Tuesday and Friday I moved to a different way.

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Because it seemed like a good idea. And I ended up living there and going to school and working in all that for that semester.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And all during that time, I still was not stable. I was still so depressed to a side all and all of that. It was awful.

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And then it right at the end of semester. I was again, I was like, I can't put a dozing more and like, and so I bought more pills.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: The same kind of pills. The all of my last three times were the same kind of pills.

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I just took more of them that time. There was a lake by the town and I drove like, out by the lake.

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And I sat there in my car at night for several hours just like going back and forth and like, what do I do?

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Do I want to do this? Like doing not like so but that was the night before my finals.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I runically and once the time got to a certain like past certain point, I was like, I'm not going to be able to do my files tomorrow.

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess I have to do it. Like I was sitting in the car and then I saw headlights coming up and something I was like, this is a pretty rural area.

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Like that can't be good. So I just like down the hills were like, and then it was campus safety officers.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_01]: My best friend had found me on Snapchat and like in my little maps like told them where I was.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_01]: The police showed up first. They handcuffed me because apparently I was I needed to be handcuffed paramedics.

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I went late to New Hospital. I was in ICU again for three or four days and then I transferred to a psych hospital.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was there for a week and then I got out right for Christmas.

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Those were all within a few years of each other.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And then from 2017 to 2023 for about six years, is that right?

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have another attempt in that time, ideating a little more stable.

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So at the beginning of 2018, March, I think I ended up going to like a long-term mental health facility.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Like a voluntary one and I was there for six weeks.

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was actually a very positive experience. I learned a lot of coping mechanisms.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I finally got on a medication that stabilized me.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_01]: That's something I really credit those six years of stability with.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So I was I was solid on that medication for like two years.

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I did the thing that people with or any disorder really where they feel good on the meds.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh well, I don't need this anymore. I'm good.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I started kind of having mostly depressive episodes and at that point,

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I would be like, that's when I'd get releases.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, day to day basis. I was not suicidal anymore.

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And then in my dream, I had like a really bad manicure episode.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And it had some kind of all the classic like, oh, I went and like blew up into money and like slept with half my county.

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, all the things like really irresponsible behaviors.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I decided that point. I was like, okay, I'm getting back on meds.

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to do this anymore. I'm just staying on them.

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Then it cycled into a depressive episode and all of that was like, no, I need to do this from that point.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I like was ultimately stable until about mid 2023.

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And then that's when I started kind of like rapid cycling again, just different life events came up.

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_01]: That were like pretty stressful and painful and like boom, boom, boom, boom. And I couldn't handle it.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So the sixth attempt in November 2023, we had moved twice within a month.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Did you know that moving physiologically is as stressful as someone dying, like losing a loved one?

[00:29:52] Wow.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Fun fact and stop and twice a month.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And then some other like family shit for me, I'd gone on and some medical stuff and I ended up having a psychotic episode.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was hearing voices telling me to kill myself.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was already suicidal and then like something in my head being like, hey, you know, like, you'll have to do it now.

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I did. I ended up taking pills. I was in the hospital for a week and I did not end up going to a psych hospital that time because my

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying I were able to like come up with a good enough safety plan to go home because at that point I'm a social worker.

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_01]: She's also a social worker and so we're like, look, we're both social workers.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_00]: We know what to see into all the fun things in my right.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you for sharing all that. I appreciate it. What's your diagnosis that you think is right?

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a volunteer disorder. That's enough.

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_00]: No longer practicing Christianity of any kind. Oh, no.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely not. And so 2020 was actually a great year for me in terms of I left Christianity.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I came out. I like started living my life while like doing all the things that I hadn't done when I was religious.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I had a good time.

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting. Yeah.

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Not the year most people associate with good times.

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_01]: No, it was a relatively good year for me.

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Well, actually some people like I did well in 2020.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_00]: This podcast started in 2020.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Other should I've done started in 2020? Why did you reach out?

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Sort of as like a eulogy.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. Like, okay, here's my story.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody when I'm dead, you can listen to this.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_01]: It's easier than like someone else writing it for me.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So are you planning?

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_01]: When I reached out, I had a pretty thorough plan.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I had the pills all ready. I had like letters written to everybody.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I like just needed whenever I was ready. I was like, okay, just got to go time.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_01]: But I since then had a no no, we just couldn't work where I pulled my fiancee where the pills were and I deleted the letters.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_01]: If somewhere probably, well, now they're I deleted the forever and like they're in my Google box and I don't know.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_01]: They're out in the void.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of like because I've done this enough times, I always sort of have a baseline plan of like I can just go to the store by the pill and go.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_01]: But it was like really neatly planned to have the letters and the pills all said and well, you know.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But having this also, I guess is like, hey, go everybody.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Does your fiancee know we're talking?

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Nope, nobody knows.

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Why not your fiancee, I'm wondering.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm still on likes who is I watch and I don't want to, I don't want to, but you know when like get more worried and check on me because I,

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_01]: it's annoying to have that kind of like, someone always.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Right in the down your neck.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_00]: But boy, I'll boy it sounds lonely.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_01]: To not tell anybody.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I got it.

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It just sounds, I don't know if it was lonely.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It just sounds hard.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it was kind of hard planning today.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I had to be a little bit creative at least for now.

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want anybody know down the road.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I can like I can always show them the episode down the road, but right now I don't.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't want that.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it'll be out in a couple months, two, three months and unless you tell me to take it down,

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_00]: it'll probably be there for quite a while.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I won't do anything with it.

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Apple or Spotify go under, but it's going to stay out there.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_00]: People might hear it.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't, I would be shocked if anybody knew about your podcast.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_00]: No, they don't, they don't.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Probably know.

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Never know though.

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_00]: We don't talk about it so much that maybe they do.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they're going through their own thing and well in that case, hello, more

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_01]: businessening to this.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Buckle up.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_00]: How many people know about the last attempt?

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot because I mean,

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_01]: there's like five people that know and then I'm on posted it on the church Facebook page.

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_01]: She put it on there and she's like, Mr. Dendard and they have all the things.

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_01]: She was at it and so no comment.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. So when you think about your six attempts, do you ever wish?

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_00]: As we speak now, Buckle, I wish that one or those had worked.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_00]: One of them had worked.

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: That's our question because it depends on the day.

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Like sometimes I'm like, especially when it's really bad, which it has kind of been a lot lately.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, why?

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Why did not work?

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I wish to work.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I wish to be so much easier right now.

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And then other times there's moments where I'm like, oh, I'm glad I'm here for this actually.

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a good thing that I'm able to participate in or whatever.

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think being a suicide attempt to have ever helps you in your work as a social worker?

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I definitely can relate to clients.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Like they'll be talking about something mental health and I don't disclose back advice

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_01]: so to speak that I'm getting back to them.

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like this is coming from a personal place.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I know for a fact that this works because I've been in it.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_01]: But like I've got to have experience to be able to do whatever.

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you ever lose anybody to suicide in your work?

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Not anybody close.

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I worked at a hospital for a while as a social worker and we lost a patient to suicide.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't work with her a lot directly, but that one did actually get me when it happened.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_01]: She was young and it was pretty sad.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Not that I'm so sad, but yeah.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_00]: If you wanted to have a conversation about the fact that you were let's say thinking about ending your life

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_00]: other than a kind of stranger in North Carolina, how many people do you have to talk to about that?

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a good handful.

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I can talk to my fiance about it.

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I have I called on my bonus parents.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_01]: They were my best friends parents and I've known them for like a long long time.

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_01]: They part of my support system.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I am in touch with one brother and I can talk to him.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_01]: What my best friend.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I have I thought I am people like that.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's interesting because when I asked you about like who knows we're talking and you said no one

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and then you said because I'm on this suicide watch.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Not could you talk to them.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Would you talk to them?

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It depends.

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I said when I told my fiance it was kind of a moment of weakness so to speak.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And so if I'm in a space where it's like no, I want to live.

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just tired of living this way or feeling this way.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Then I'm like yeah, would we chat?

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_00]: You still hear voices ever?

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't since these since my second episode.

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_01]: That was actually the first time that's happened to me.

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it must be just freaked you out.

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_01]: It was freaking that they had names and their voices very distinctive.

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_01]: It was actually weird.

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I watched a movie a couple months ago and one of the guys voices shocked me because I'm like oh my god that's the voice.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Like that is it was weird.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Feel like you're a Leo.

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a Scorpion.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_00]: What month is that?

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's October 28th.

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to be alive.

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a good question.

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_01]: We're on that currently is like simultaneously.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I really I'm suicidal and I would like to die but at the same time I'm feeling a little bit

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_01]: like flameless but I want to try to live very much like I don't want to live like this space that maybe I want to live.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So if I gave you the pink and purple pill telling the audience that's the one where if Joe takes it,

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_00]: go to sleep peacefully.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_00]: No one knows it's a suicide type of thing and your options and you could add more options if you choose.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_00]: But my three options are take it, save it, chuck it.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But you can't change the color of it.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Just don't go there.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I like being purple.

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Victor, yeah, what do you do?

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I have an idea in my head which might do you but I'm probably wrong.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm really tempted to say take it but I think I'd probably save it.

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd save it for now but I'd be very like I keep it close.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Any myths or misconceptions you'd like to dispel while we're talking about any of the stuff?

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there's always this idea of like, well you don't understand how you're going to hurt people that you leave behind.

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm like, we've at least for me.

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I fucking know what kind of devastation it would cause.

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that I'm doing it to them on purpose but it's under the whole like,

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_01]: oh, it's selfish to take your life.

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like it's selfish for you to want me to stay here just because you would be hurt.

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_01]: You just want me to suffer so that you're not sad.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of how it feels sometimes.

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_00]: When you were thinking about going on here, how are you feeling about that?

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Nervous.

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I think when I emailed you, it was like, okay, I'm gonna do it and I did and I was like,

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I did it, it's like out there and I know I could have said no but then it was like,

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_01]: well, I already said it, let's do it.

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm glad you did it.

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Question I don't typically ask is any words to your younger self.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You picked the age.

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know probably like hanging there.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I think like right now I'm feeling not great, pretty suicidal but when I like 2020 for example,

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_01]: when I was like, I feel like who I'm supposed to be now.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey little Joe, like you just hanging there because 2020 is going to come and like,

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_01]: you're gonna be this person and it's gonna be great.

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I might pull out of this and feel that way again but you're not at least going to be in the childhood you

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_01]: or stuck in right now.

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_01]: My philosophy or my belief after you died.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Now before I was like, oh you go to hell, you go to heaven.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm like there's one of the laws of thermodynamics.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like energy can't be created or destroyed.

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So for me I'm like, I die and I just go somewhere else.

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, this will be dead but like, well it's somewhere and it will be fine.

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Like fucking off doing whatever.

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It makes me a little sad to think of the people in my life being sad and like some of the things

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_01]: that I won't be able to do anymore.

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_01]: But honestly, like we're all gonna die anyway.

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_01]: If it happens a little early maybe like is that the worst thing you're called?

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_01]: My feelings about it change depending on what I think I've already said that but like if I'm having a good day,

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like well maybe sad to be dead and like, make mistakes and then sometimes I get not I don't know.

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the word nihilistic.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't care as much apathetic maybe.

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I do want to know and I also don't know this.

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you see your Scorpio? Are you a Scorpio?

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean I know technically you are probably like, are you?

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't actually know like the stonology very well.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_01]: People always tip when I tell them Scorpio they always seem surprised.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm like knowing me.

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Likely heard if you're alive that you listen to this episode when it comes out.

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah probably got to make sure that it's worth recommending to people with some dead if it's like not good.

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Gonna have to write a letter.

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Likely unlikely that you will share with your partner once it comes out.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it all depends on where I'm at in two months.

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the rest of your afternoon or evening look like?

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know probably chill in the dinner watching true crime documentary and so.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_00]: What is the fascination with true crime?

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what it says about me that I enjoy hearing about people's traumas.

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It wouldn't work for suicide.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think.

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean?

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Like imagine the true crime format but it's not about somebody killing somebody else.

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It's about somebody killing themselves.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_01]: No I think it would be trying to find out why they did it.

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_01]: That's all they could do really.

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_00]: To me.

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah I have ideas.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to do it.

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_00]: This is about all I'm producing in the world.

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_00]: This is enough.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm good enough Joe.

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_01]: You are.

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You are good enough Sean.

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Mom a piece of shit.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You know it.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I won't say it.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_01]: You didn't think it I guess but don't think it looks.

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Once it out and people have a prey for me if you're out there people prey for me.

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's that.

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Look at it.

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Never going in.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe a little less nervous going out.

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_01]: You make people feel it.

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You're my best.

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate your time.

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate you sharing.

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_01]: How are we getting?

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And I hope the restaurant is good.

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate it.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Have a good night.

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_01]: You too.

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I.

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_00]: As always thanks so much for listening and all of your support and special thanks to Joe in California.

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you Joe.

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_00]: If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk please reach out.

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or X at suicide noted.

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you'd like to learn more about the podcast you can check the show notes that includes our membership.

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And hey that is it.

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_00]: That is all for episode number two three one.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Stay strong.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Do the best you can.

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll talk to you soon.