Dustin in Montana

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: They started making commands and I had this belief that somebody was out to kill me and I'm the kind of person who, if he doesn't have his own life in his hands, will deal with it myself. If I had to choose between somebody killing me or me killing myself, I'd kill myself.

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it.

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_02]: We certainly don't talk about it enough and when we do talk about it, many of us, including me, we're not very good at it.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors in large part to help more people in more places hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone.

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or X at Suicide Noted and you can check the show notes to learn all kinds of things about this podcast, including our membership.

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_02]: However you support us and this, thank you.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Please remember we are talking about suicide on this podcast and I don't hold back.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So take that into account before you listen or as you listen.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_02]: But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_02]: The audio quality on today's episode is not the best.

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I won't get into why.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm hoping it is clear enough for you to hear it without any problems.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I did my best.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Today I am talking with Dustin.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Dustin lives in Montana and he is a suicide attempt survivor.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, Dustin.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And where are you?

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm curious.

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I live in Libby, Montana.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_03]: In Montana, Dustin?

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know why that selfishly brings me joy?

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Why is that?

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I've never spoken to someone in the state of Montana for this podcast.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, really?

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I think you're the first.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I've listened to like at least 190 episodes and I haven't heard of anyone from Montana.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty rural over here, you know, so it's very few and far between you see people.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm guessing there aren't a lot of therapists around.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_03]: The hospital might be far away, all that shit.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I do all mine over Zoom.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_00]: All my therapist meetings with my nurse practitioner.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_00]: She does Zoom kind of like we're doing now because I believe in the small community that you can't get the help that you're looking for.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_03]: How did you stumble upon the podcast?

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_03]: It sounds like you've listened to a bunch of episodes.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_03]: How did you find it in the first place?

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you remember?

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So I joined Spotify when I got a new phone because I'm blind.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't watch anything.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So Spotify has a bunch of podcasts and it was recommending me some and I recommended yours.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_03]: It's based on your listening.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_03]: So were you listening to other things in certain categories maybe?

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was from my search history.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Did you ever put the word suicide in that thing?

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And it told me to call 988.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Did you do it?

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I was just wanting to see if anybody out there was doing what you're doing, which I think is a great thing.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Letting people get it off their chest and just to listen to other people's stories.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_00]: It's mostly women, but that's why I kind of felt that being a man and sharing my story might make others come forward too.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You're right.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_03]: There are more women that I have spoken to for this podcast.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not partial to women or men with this podcast, but it just turns out that way.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you said you were blind in your email.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Did I send you that thing?

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And then if I did, were you able to read it?

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_03]: That document?

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So I did tell you I was blind and you sent me the document and I was able to read it.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_00]: What it is is my eyelids don't open.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't open them just using my eyes.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I have to use a finger to open up my eyelid.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh shit.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_03]: You know what I should do, man?

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I should make an audio of that document.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_03]: God, what a dick I am.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Sent you a fucking PDF with pretty small print to someone who's blind.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Jesus Christ.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, I'm pretty sure I said I was blind.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I could be wrong.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, but that's one of the big things I lead off with when I talk to people.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But you're not a dick.

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: You're good, man.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Hang on with me.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Just so we're both clear.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_03]: You know me.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_03]: You might not think I'm a dick, but you ask some other people and they'd be very quick

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_03]: to say, oh no, he's kind of a dick.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_03]: It's all good, right?

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_03]: We all wear masks, so to speak, you know?

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's right.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Versions of us in different places with different people.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_03]: In any case, you are here talking about something that a lot of people don't talk about, even

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_03]: keep a secret.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_00]: When I tried killing myself, barely anybody knew.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Just my immediate family and a handful of friends, maybe five.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And we live in a town of 2,500 people, so news catches on pretty quick, so a lot of people

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_00]: don't know my story.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And I felt that through sharing it, I'd be able to maybe help somebody else who's struggling

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_00]: or, you know, I can talk to people in this town, but they are who they are.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_02]: They are who they are, yep.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_00]: How old are you, Dustin?

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll be 38 in June.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And how old were you when you attempted to take your life?

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_03]: 34.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_03]: This was mid-COVID in July.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, okay.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_03]: You know what's weird about that?

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Somehow I always keep taking this shit back to me.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_03]: That's when I started the podcast.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Isn't that weird?

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_03]: July of 2020.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's your only attempt?

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Had you ever before that in those 34 years come close?

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I've had alcohol poisoning and stuff like that, but that wasn't trying to take my life.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So where does this story start?

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So it started all back when I was 20 years old.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know it then, but I was having delusions and hallucinations, both audio and visual.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that people were out to get me, you know, like I was just really leery of people.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: But also the voices that I was hearing, you know, they'd comment on my day like they'd be basically narrating everything that I did.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_00]: That must be scary.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Especially when I was driving home from work and I heard something and I couldn't figure out what it was.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And I turned my stereo off.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Finally, I had to pull over my truck and turn it off because I kept hearing this voice.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Turns out that it was, you know, audio hallucinations.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So did you see someone for that?

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Try to get some help?

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Nope.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I didn't want people to think that I was off the rails, like, you know, like crazy to judge me.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: How long did they last or do you still get them?

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I still have them.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So you've been dealing with voices and hallucinations for 18 years?

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, the voices, but they didn't start making commands until about June of 2019.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_03]: So from birth, although you probably don't remember when you were one years old, to 20 when you got, when you first heard the voice.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of a normal-ish life growing up?

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was raised by a single mother.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I had great grandparents, great aunts and uncles, a great family life.

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: High school, I was a prom king and the homecoming king.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Dustin, the homecoming king.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Did you hang out with the homecoming queen?

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: She died, though, in December of 2007.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I graduated in 2004.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_00]: How'd she die?

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: She died in a car wreck.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Goddamn.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_03]: When she died in 2007, it wasn't too far away from when you got those voices for the first time.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I had already had them.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any idea why that happened?

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, see, I was diagnosed with schizophrenia after I tried killing myself, and I don't know why it is that I became schizophrenic.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's nothing in my childhood to suggest that, you know, no abuse or anything like that.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_03]: So maybe it's just really, really bad luck.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know who my father is.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know of him.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_00]: He just died recently, and thank heavens.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it could be hereditary, too.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_03]: How often would the voices, how often would they come, if you can recall?

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And, yeah, like, how intense was it?

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't too intense.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, they'd just basically narrate my day on, like, you know, oh, Dustin's opening the refrigerator.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: He's opening the refrigerator again.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Or he's taking his dog for a walk.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_00]: They'd say, like, my dog's name and stuff.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't too intense, but it would happen every day.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_03]: One of my things that I'm sort of super curious about is just trying to better understand, like, what it's like to go through something.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_03]: When I'm in my day, sometimes I'm kind of quote-unquote talking to myself.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's obviously my brain doing something, and I'm having a thought.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes I will even lip it out.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Or if you see me, I'm kind of talking to myself, which I don't necessarily think is a sign of anything.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_03]: But you're saying these are actual voices you hear.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, two women and a man.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Two women and a man.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I call them Pam, Ida, and Dave.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_00]: How did you come up with those names?

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_00]: The store Pamida.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_00]: That's pretty creative.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was trying to get some sleep in one of their parking lots when I was working road construction.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: The voices, they weren't letting me go to sleep.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I should just name you fuckers.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Give them a name, and it kind of takes away a bit of their power.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_03]: In your 20s into 30s, when you're kind of white-knuckling it, you're not getting help in sort of the traditional sense.

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_03]: So when do you start drinking a lot?

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know if this is a regular thing, but does it become—are you an alcoholic?

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I was.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_03]: When did that start?

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_00]: In 2007.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I actually lost three grandmas, and like I said, my ex-girlfriend, who was the homecoming queen, and a good buddy to suicide.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I lost him, too.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I lost him all in one year.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And an aunt.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: An aunt died that year, too.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, my aunt and my grandma died on the same day in the same hospital.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that was a lot of trauma, even for a 21-year-old, you know?

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And did you drink a lot?

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I was drinking every day.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I was drinking a 30-pack a day.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you a big guy?

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm 350 pounds—or 330 pounds.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Were you that big then?

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I was about 280, 290 then.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_03]: So you're a husky dude?

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And you had some times in which you got alcohol poisoning.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Did you black out sometimes?

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_03]: For lack of a better word, a slow suicide or no?

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess you could look at it that way.

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I never really have thought of it that way.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But even the times I got alcohol poisoning and almost died, it never stopped me from drinking.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you still drink?

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't touched alcohol in five years.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_00]: That's impressive.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, after I tried to take my life, I needed to do something.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like what my mom went through and all that good stuff.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't deserve that.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And I couldn't keep doing it to her.

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_00]: She's too good to me.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: People overuse sometimes the word resilience.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_03]: But that truly is a great example of it.

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I have struggled with alcohol.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I've got some friends who have been in AA for years.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, they're in and out, in and out kind of thing.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Hard is an understatement.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_03]: It is.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Did you go to AA or another group of some kind?

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Or you just did it yourself?

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_03]: You did it myself.

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_03]: You just one day fucking stopped buying alcohol.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Just swore it off, you know.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_00]: It actually became really easy not to even think about.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_03]: 20 years old, voices, you start drinking a lot.

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I know, of course, in your life.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And you can include, you know, if you can go back and fill in anything we're not talking about or covering.

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_03]: But at some point over those years, when do you start thinking about taking your own life?

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I never really thought about it until the day of.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Was there something on that day that was like kind of,

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_03]: what's the word we would use?

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Triggered you?

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the voices, they started making commands.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And I had this belief that somebody was out to kill me.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm the kind of person who, if he doesn't have his own life in his hands,

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_00]: will, for lack of a better term, deal with it myself.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like if I had to choose between somebody killing me or me killing myself, I'd kill myself.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not trying to get too cute here.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_03]: But when you say the voices started making demands, was that Pam, Ida, Dave?

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's the same voice, but it's in a much more aggressive tone.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And they're saying different things.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Very.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like you're standing in a circle of three people.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're just barking orders at you and demanding, yelling.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the volume goes up, the volume goes down.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Dave, not so much.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_00]: He just kind of likes to repeat a lot of shit.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_03]: But someone's going to email me and be like,

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_03]: how the fuck can you laugh when someone's talking about that?

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's just what you said made me.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I laugh about it all the time, man.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Dave's a fucking dumb fuck.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_03]: So they're barking at you that day.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's July 10th.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_03]: So up until that point, you don't really seriously think about taking your life.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_03]: You wake up.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_03]: At some point, they start being aggressive and making demands.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And what do you do that day?

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_03]: What happens?

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I woke up and my mom was going to the next town over with my aunt.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: The voices are really at me.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, please don't leave me here.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Please don't leave me.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to kill me.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_00]: She wasn't listening to me.

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_00]: She wasn't having it.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, then my cousin got a hold of me, wanting me to go help him move a truck.

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I told them I couldn't because I didn't trust anybody.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I just believed everybody was out to get me at that point.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm in the house all day, you know, just going through this, trying to figure out what to do.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't even organize a thought.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I just couldn't form a sentence or nothing.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, asking for help from my mom was hard to even get that out.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So she comes back later that day.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_00]: She's in the bathroom, going to the bathroom.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Not once in my entire life or my brother's life have we ever walked in the bathroom on our mother.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I did that day while she was going to the bathroom and I was begging and pleading with her, you know, please help me.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And she'll even tell you that the look in my eyes like I was just vacant.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_00]: She just thought I needed to go to sleep or, you know, something like that.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So I went and pulled a lawn chair into the middle of the living room in front of the TV.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And I grabbed my Mossberg 590 Shockwave shotgun and I chambered it around.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I sat down in the chair and as I was bringing the gun up to my mouth, I yelled down the hallway to my mom.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I said goodbye.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Just as I was putting it in my mouth, when I say goodbye or bye-bye, my dog thinks it's time to go for a ride.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So he likes to come jump on you.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_00]: He tried jumping in my lap and that's just when I pulled the trigger and it exited the side of my face.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Were you conscious?

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was conscious.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Did your dog freak out?

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he was going nuts.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: There's got to be a lot of blood, no?

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_00]: When my mom came into the living room, because I heard her come running down the hallway yelling, no, no, no.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And my head was slumped over on the side that I had, that where the bullet had exited.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And she grabbed me by my hair and lifted my head up and she could see I was bleeding a lot.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_00]: She just didn't know where from.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And so when the dog jumped up, it got jerked to the left or the right?

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: It jerked to the left.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a right-handed person.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And when he went to jump in my lap, it's a pistol grip shotgun.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_00]: The thing is only probably maybe two and a half, three feet long.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_00]: If you had not missed, you'd be dead.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Most definitely, yeah.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_00]: With the shotgun pellets would have exited my brain somewhere.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Four years later, and then I'm going to go back to that moment and what happens after.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you wish it had worked?

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm very happy to be alive now.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_03]: So when you lose consciousness, does your mom take you to the hospital?

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I don't lose consciousness.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Like when my head slumped over after shooting myself was just because I was trying to slow the bleeding down.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I felt really cold air somewhere on my face, but I couldn't tell where it was coming from.

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So I thought that it had exited below my eye, but it didn't.

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_00]: It was just, you know, right to the left of your lip crease.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_00]: If this was summer, do you know where the cold air was coming from?

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the air conditioner.

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_00]: That makes sense.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need to be very bright to do a podcast.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, you're good, man.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I get it.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's a great question.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But my face was all split open.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So all those nerves were exposed and I clipped an artery.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I was bleeding out.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So I was getting really cold.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have bled out?

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_00]: From nicking that artery?

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how long it would have taken, but I would have.

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think I lost two pints of blood in the 15 minutes that it took to get me from,

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_00]: well, from the time I shot myself to the hospital.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Who drove?

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: My cousin who had called me earlier that day wanted me to help him move.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Does the hospital find out that it was a suicide attempt?

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And the cops were in there and everything.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And they asked who did this to me.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said it was myself.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_00]: What happened in the hospital?

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_00]: They only sealed the artery that was bleeding.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they put me in life flight to go 100 miles away.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that also in Montana?

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_03]: How long do you stay there for?

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I was there overnight.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I was put into a psychiatric facility.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Did they ask if you wanted to go there or was that?

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's mandatory.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Any suicide attempt is mandatory?

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that a state thing?

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I believe so.

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And how long did you stay there?

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Three weeks.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Did you want to be there?

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I believed it was kind of helping me because I didn't have the stressors of everybody asking me,

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, what happened or, you know, trying to have to explain it to anybody.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I was still trying to figure it out myself.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_00]: In that time, do you remember in the hospital if you heard Sam, Doug, or Ida?

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Dave, I should say.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, every day.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I've heard of him every day since I was 20 years old.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, okay.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_03]: So they don't go away when you're in a hospital?

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Nope.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I know you said things changed after that.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_03]: At some point, I'm really curious how you lost your sight, but I imagine that that's coming

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_03]: pretty soon.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'll let you know.

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks, Matt.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_03]: So three weeks you get out, do you feel a little better or is it the same exact style?

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel a little bit better because I was under a lock and key the whole time.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So I was really calm and knew that nobody was out to get me.

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And I hadn't even told the clinical workers there, the nurses or the doctor or anything

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_00]: that I was hearing voices and that I thought somebody was out to kill me because I didn't

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_00]: even trust them.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_00]: When did somebody finally learn that you've been hearing voices?

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_00]: About two months after.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it would have been three months after I shot myself.

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_03]: So the people there know that there are people in the hospital that know that you try to

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_03]: take your life.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_03]: But what's fascinating to me, maybe that's not the best word, is that you're not telling

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_03]: them about the voices.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I didn't trust anybody.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_00]: If I hadn't told my family for all these years, I wasn't going to tell strangers.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Was there any part of you, though, that might have been wondering, like, if I tell somebody

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_03]: who maybe hopefully knows what the fuck they're doing, I might not hear the voices if I get

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_03]: treated.

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that when, you know, like I say, about three months after I take my life, I

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_00]: started seeing a therapist over Zoom.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: She diagnosed me after I because I told her because she doesn't live in a small community.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't live in this town.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So she has no preconceived notion of who I am, what I've done.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_03]: So at the time you get out, this would have been like August 2020.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_03]: We're in the middle of COVID.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_03]: You've stopped drinking by this point.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I imagine.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what your life was like before, but what are you able to do and not do?

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Like work, hang out with friends or family?

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Does it change?

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I became more of a recluse.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_03]: So you go back to the same home, the same home in which you tried to take your life,

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_03]: clean up some blood.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And just get on with it.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of keep on keeping on.

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, just kind of dealt with it, you know, internally.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I was a little leery about being alive.

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Not that I wanted to necessarily be dead, but I was really questioning why it is that I survived.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have any idea?

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Dog spelled backwards is God, man.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Could you still answer my question?

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Something greater than myself prevented it.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, because that's too many coincidences to just, you know, my dog is seven years old

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and the only commands he knows is sit, lay down and bye-bye and goodbye.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_00]: You live on your own with your dog.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_03]: What's your dog's name?

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Titus.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Titus.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_03]: This is going to sound a little strange, I realize, but you don't need a lot of main

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_03]: big help in living.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So my mom does all my grocery shopping and pays all my bills because I can't drive and

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't even balance a checkbook because of my sight.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So when did you go blind?

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_00]: It had been a year and a half ago in September.

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_00]: What happened?

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So the antipsychotic medication that I was taking after I was diagnosed with schizophrenia,

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_00]: it caused the, it's called blepharospasm and blepharospasm is when your eyelids or parts

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_00]: of your eyes twitch without, you know, you're choosing to spasm.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't open up my eyelids unless I use a finger to open them up.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Permanent condition?

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It says that it can be fixed with something called a myectomy, but they're trying Botox

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: injections right now.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I get those every three months.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_03]: So the antipsychotic medication that you started taking after you started seeing somebody

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and they diagnosed you, meds themselves are the reason you got the condition that you can

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_03]: now, and you're now blind?

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Certain antipsychotics cause this.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_00]: You have to read in the fine print on side effects, but it's way down the line somewhere.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't tell you this.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I know this is weird cause I'm speaking, but I am weirdly speechless.

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy, man.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_00]: After it happened to me, you know, I was like, what the hell is a blepharospasm and what,

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, I was actually driving home from work and then my, I closed my eyes and I was

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_00]: never able to open them again.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Weird question, but how did you get home that day?

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I held my eyelid open and, uh, but I had to take my contacts out because every time I

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_00]: opened up my eyelid, my contact would slide off my eyeball.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Help me understand Dustin, how a company can put out a drug that is approved.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I imagine by the powers that be that can cause blindness.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, man.

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's big pharma for you.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I've never heard an explanation that makes sense to me as how, how things like that are

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_03]: allowed.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I'm naive.

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I must be very naive.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the state of California won't let you make a drug that, you know, they even posted

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_00]: everywhere that this place has chemicals that's known as the state of California to cause birth

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_00]: defects and or cancer.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a prop 98, I think is what it's called.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a, it's a law that California has to put on everything that people come in contact

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_00]: with.

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if it's some kind of chemical that they've had in there, they have to post it.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Not Montana.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Not Montana.

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So you're blind.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm blind.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Legally.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I get little glimpses here and there of light, but that's about it.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Can you work?

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm on a SSI supplemental security income.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Your mom is helping out.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_00]: How do you spend your days listening to suicide?

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Noted man.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_03]: That's the best answer fucking ever, dude.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I know there's other things you listen to.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So you're, you're an audio centric person these days.

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I like to do a lot of guided imagery, you know, YouTube and ASMR with headphones on and

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_00]: just kind of get that experience, you know, visualize it that way.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_00]: No drinking.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: No drinking.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Social life.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I have no social life at all.

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I have maybe two or three friends that I keep in contact with.

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody comes to my house.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't go to anywhere.

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_03]: You said earlier that you're glad to be alive.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Some people, including this person would probably feel really fucking angry.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Why the fuck did I get the voices that turned into demands?

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Why I can't do this?

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't do that.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_03]: All that shit.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think I would be one of those people.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you pissed off?

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm not pissed off.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_00]: No, not at all.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't feel like I got cheated or anything like that.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy with being alive.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, there's certain things that I still want to do and have to do.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Like what?

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to become a peer support specialist.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the only jobs a person can do without being able to see.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_03]: That would be amazing, man.

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Did you get any diagnosis from this person that you've been seeing other than schizophrenia?

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So I have a major depressive disorder, ADHD, generalized anxiety.

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_00]: That's enough, right?

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_00]: That's enough.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you still take the med that blinded you?

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I take six different medications.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_00]: They've helped, you know, with like the commands, you know, the command voices.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_00]: They've helped with that.

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But I've had breakthrough days where it gets pretty bad.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: They come back.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Three of them.

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_00]: They're always together.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_00]: They're always together.

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_00]: They're posse.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I say, Dave don't say shit.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_00]: He just repeats what Pam and Ida say.

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Dave needs to find a little bit of a voice on his own.

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it true that there are parts of you, right?

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Like there are parts of who you are.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, honestly, I don't even know that.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I just remember, you know, when I first started hearing them up until now, and it's always been the same three people.

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And I say people, I use that loosely.

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's the same three voices.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I did believe that they're real.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they keep you up some nights and you stay up for three days, you know, and you start hallucinating from that.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I give you a pill that happens to be pink and purple, though.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_03]: The colors really don't matter.

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you take the pill, you'll go to sleep.

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_03]: You'll die.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_03]: You won't be in pain.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And nobody will think it's a suicide.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Would you take the pill, save the pill, or toss the pill?

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I'd say that.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Where?

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I got plenty of hiding places, man.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I got a hole drilled in the top of my door with a medicine bottle shoved in it.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: How many guns do you own?

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my gosh, man.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Probably 100, 110.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Hold up.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Hold up.

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_03]: So you're really into guns?

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_00]: That's one of the only things there is to do here.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Fuck fight and trick fight shoe guns.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't tend to get super political.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm pretty open on all this stuff, for better or worse.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_03]: But are you in the camp of people that would say, don't fuck with my guns?

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly who I'd lump me in with.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_00]: That's who I'd be with on that.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I would say.

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I feel like it doesn't even need to be said in Montana, but they'll never, ever

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: get rid of guns, man.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_00]: They'd have a militia on their hands.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_00]: When I was a kid, my mom, she had a boyfriend who lived in Hayden, Idaho.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: As a kid, we used to go to the neo-Nazi rallies.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_00]: He was part of the Aryan Brotherhood, the Aryan Nation.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_03]: So do you remember, I'm trying to do the math, what year were you born?

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_03]: 1986.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So you would have been old enough to remember, I don't know if it was Idaho or Montana when

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_03]: the government came in.

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I was going to tell you about Hayden, Idaho, is I remember a camp retreat

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_00]: we went there to one time.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember little Sammy Weaver.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Sammy Weaver's a little boy who died on Ruby Ridge.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It was Randy Weaver's son.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Were you about the same age?

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_00]: We were not too far apart.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So they killed him.

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_00]: They killed the wife.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Did the guy die too?

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_00]: No, he got shot though.

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_00]: He just died actually.

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Him and his daughter, Sarah Weaver, they live in probably 60 miles away from me.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_00]: That was a fucking debacle.

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_03]: That was crazy shit.

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_00]: When you change the rules of engagement on a guy that you want to take to jail because

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_00]: he had a warrant out for his arrest, they thought he was some guy on top of a mountain

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_00]: who was nearing the end of days and he just had a stash of guns and he didn't.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_00]: He had one gun that was like a half an inch too short.

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that was it.

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I actually live about 60 miles away from the Unabomber too.

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_00]: He died, right?

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_00]: No, he's in prison in Colorado.

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So you were literally at like a kind of epicenter or near it.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, man.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Like these rivers have secrets around here.

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_03]: When you were high school or in your twenties, did you think I'm going to do it?

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Most people do.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to work and then I'm going to find a girl and, or a guy.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I think you said you were dating that homecoming queen.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_03]: So making some assumptions about it, things that could be off, get married, maybe have a kid

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_03]: or two that was that the thing that you thought about?

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I really wanted.

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a, yeah.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to get married and have kids.

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_00]: When the girl died, were you dating her?

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_00]: She was married.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_00]: She was married at the time.

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Think you'll get married?

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_03]: No.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And I say that only because you don't socialize much.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_03]: You say you're very reclusive.

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I, I won't ever get married or have kids.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_00]: How does that, how does that sit with you?

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I said, it's okay with me now because I never wanted to pass my schizophrenia on to my

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_00]: kids.

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's really tough, you know, to ask somebody to go through that with you or who even wants

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_00]: to be around for it, you know?

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So I know that you believe in dogs.

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you believe in God?

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I, I never did.

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I, I was an atheist.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Are there a lot of atheists out in Montana?

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_00]: No, no.

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_00]: There are a lot of God fearing people around here.

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of Christians.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I was forced to go to church as a kid, you know, to go to certain church services.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And when I was 17, I was kicked out of the house, um, and had to go live with a foster

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_00]: family and they were really big on church.

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I just stopped believing in God.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know if I ever did believe in him.

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Why were you kicked out?

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, because I, me and her boyfriend didn't get along.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I, I just believe in something that's greater than myself.

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Something I can't even fathom something beyond this world.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you believe in heaven or hell?

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I do, but I believe it's a, I believe, I believe in reincarnation also.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So we come back as what?

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Another person or something else?

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Something else.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Cause everything is living.

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a tree is living.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_00]: A blade of the grass is living.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You come back as something like that or, or yeah, maybe a heaven or hell.

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_00]: What do you want to come back as?

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'd love to come back as my own son that I don't have.

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But if you come back as your son, your son might have schizophrenia.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'll know how to deal with it then.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_00]: There's some deep shit, Dustin.

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So how many people know that we are talking?

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Three, me, you, and my mom.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_00]: What did your mom say when you told her you were doing this?

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_00]: She said that she thought it was good and be therapeutic to get it off my chest.

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Nice.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_00]: If I hear it and listen to it and think that anybody else should know, then I'll have,

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, something to send them.

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You can just take people right to what it is you got to say.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And because, you know, they might not ask you about it, but if you feel comfortable enough

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_00]: sharing it with them.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_00]: There's not a ton of people that know that you tried.

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, aside from my family would probably be about five to eight people.

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Were they all cool about it?

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Or did someone, you know, because a lot of people, they say really stupid shit.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_00]: They never asked me about it.

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, when I refer to something, I always say, you know, back when I shot myself compared

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: to how I'm feeling now, you know, people are like, Hey, how are you doing?

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, Oh, I'm doing pretty good.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I can't complain so blind, you know?

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, also, unlike, unlike a suicide attempt, you can't really hide your blindness.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not even an issue of what they say or how they respond or engage with you.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_03]: They just don't.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_00]: They just don't.

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think that you will get your sight back again at some point?

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I do after the research that I've put into it and like what I'm going through.

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I agree with it.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that the medicine helps them.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_02]: When you think back to your attempt, do you regret anything about that experience?

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_00]: If I still had to do it again, I would have made it to where my mom wasn't in the house,

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_03]: but still live.

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So you did share some things about what your days are like.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And I know you're in therapy, but does anything help you feel?

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_03]: You said you're glad to be alive.

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So I usually say, does anything help you feel less shitty?

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm sure you have many a shittier moment.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Does anything else help?

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Just like listening to documentaries on YouTube.

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I like to listen to people build tiny houses or if I get really ballsy, I'll hold an eyelid

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_00]: open and try to watch an hour long video.

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I just try to go with things that are calming and that fill up my day pretty substantially.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Podcasts seem to do a lot of that for me, but it's tough finding things you're interested in.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know you have a real interest in guns.

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Are there podcasts or stuff around that?

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I've never, never looked.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I've never really cared about anybody else in their guns.

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, it's if I see it and have to have it, then I got to have it.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I like knowing that I have a gun for anything I need one for.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_00]: You literally have a gun for anything you need.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_00]: The only gun I got rid of was the one I shot myself with.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, did you sell it or give it away?

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I sold it.

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_03]: How much?

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_03]: 150 bucks.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Probably a pretty good market out there to buy guns.

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Are there any myths or misconceptions that you want to call bullshit on?

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, is that people who attempt suicide are not looking for attention.

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it's kind of like hesitation, you know, like, do I really want to die?

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and I think that just that little bit of spark keeps people living.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you don't really want to die.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_00]: You just, you might like the idea of it, but really you don't.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Something in your heart just says, keep that heart pumping.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it's interesting given the conversations I've had.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_03]: A couple of things come to mind with that.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_03]: One, I think there are so many things people could and do do that might be for attention.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But I don't think attempting is typically one of them.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_03]: The other thing is I've asked people, and you've probably heard this on a podcast, like,

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_03]: do you wish that day had turned out differently?

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_03]: That kind of thing.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And not a small number say, I wish I had died, which makes me think that I have to disagree

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_03]: with what you said a little bit, because I think some people, it really was not just

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_03]: wanting the pain to end it.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_00]: They really wanted to die.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to die, too.

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I convinced myself that I didn't want to, you know, because there's part of

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_00]: people that still want to live, you know, like you haven't given up all hope.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_00]: There's still a little bit of hope in there somewhere or something.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what keeps the person's heart beating, you know, unless you're hanging

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_00]: yourself.

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And even then, you know, it's like gravity is a fickle bitch.

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Wait a second.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Did we just come up with your memoir title?

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't me.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just listening for it.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Gravity is a fickle bitch.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Come on.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_03]: That might be one of the best stuff we've ever done here on the podcast.

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So is suicide a possibility for you in the future?

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_00]: You said that as long as people didn't know that it was from suicide.

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_00]: In the pink and purple pill equation, yeah.

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So as long as people didn't know that it was from suicide, then it's a possibility.

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_00]: If I wasn't able to see again.

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So if you stay blind for too long, then you might try.

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_03]: How would you try again if you wanted to hide it?

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_03]: If such a thing is possible?

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's why I thought the option was with taking the pill.

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But if I don't get to take the pill, then I don't have that option anymore.

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_03]: But in real life, if you don't get to see again, like might you try and hey, yes, people will

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_03]: likely know there was a suicide.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that a possibility?

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_00]: No, no.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I won't I won't attach my name with that again.

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_00]: One more question around that.

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_03]: What if when your mother passes away?

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_03]: We all pass away, obviously.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I never thought about that.

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I probably would.

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully that time is far away.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I hope so.

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have any words for anybody who might hear this?

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And that includes friends, family, podcast listeners.

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So I would say that everybody has a struggle.

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's going through some shit, you know, just because the shit that you're going through,

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_00]: it doesn't seem like people care, but they do.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You just you have to reach out to you have to put yourself out there.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You can't just expect somebody to notice it or spot it and feel alone.

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You can't do that.

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_00]: You have to reach out, whether it's a professional or a friend or family member or a stranger.

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, because it's such a complex issue.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And usually read minds.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_03]: If you were talking today to let me use two different dates.

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_03]: One is the first time you can't see when you're 20.

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And the other one is the day of your suicide attempt.

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Would you today say something to either of those versions or those dust?

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I would I would say relax, calm down.

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing can be healed in a day.

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And what you're going through is new to you.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It might not be this bad down the road.

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_00]: If a bat can fly around and use sonar to locate where it's going.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Humans are very well capable of.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying, don't give up hope.

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully it can be undone.

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I hope you get to see again, man, because that's what you want.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm hoping that for you.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I really want is to be able to see again.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Even if it's just, you know, little glimpses here and there of like being able to hold my eyes open for a minute would be so much more helpful than having to hold.

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And because I get eye infections pretty bad, you know, like I pure all my hands all the time.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Jesus, I go through so much pure.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You'd think it was COVID again.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_03]: You'd said earlier that you're looking into being or at least thinking about being a pure support specialist.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Are there programs that you can do in your area or online?

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's a class, a course, a 40 hour course you'd have to take.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's about six hours from where I live and they don't do it over Zoom.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so is that a possibility?

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_00]: No, because I wouldn't have anybody to stay with down there.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't afford to do to stay there and the trip down there and to pay for the class.

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So you can't do it.

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can't do it right now.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_00]: That sucks.

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I hope that changes, obviously.

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what I'm looking into right now is looking to find courses that Montana will accept.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_00]: That's out of state because they do accept out of state courses and there's different training.

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I think they do some over Zoom.

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's nothing like somebody who's gone through the thing, right?

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So much lived experience, you know?

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_00]: No doubt about it.

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_03]: You've got a lot of that in your 38 years.

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I've seen some shit.

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_03]: No pun intended.

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_03]: That's bullshit.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_03]: That pun was totally intended.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_03]: What else do you want to share or talk about?

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm trying to start a YouTube channel now.

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_00]: My handle is TheBSOfficial.

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But if you look up my page or my channel, it's TheBlindSchizophrenic.

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be putting out some videos that, you know, we'll be talking about living blind with schizophrenia.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe I can try to help those two communities.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder how many people are blind schizophrenics.

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm not saying a specific niche.

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying people who are schizophrenic and or blind.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Given your sight, you're still able to make videos?

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So I hold an eyelid open for about 30 seconds at a time.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And my videos are all...

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I just shoot them on my phone.

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I know where my phone needs to be for my face to be in it, you know?

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So I just hold it right there and I shoot the video.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And I just edit out the beginning and the end.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Try to edit the cover photo with, like, you know, a good title and stuff.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I post it.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I've only posted one video.

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, man.

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, hopefully you can post more.

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_03]: The Blind Schizophrenic, TheBSOfficial for now.

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Shit, we've got a lot of options for memoir titles.

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Shit.

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe there's more than one memoir here.

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I've lived two lives, man.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_03]: There's beefy chapters, each with its own title.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_03]: That's another way to divide it up.

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I appreciate you talking with me, Dustin.

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I really do.

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I appreciate you having me.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_03]: All right, my friend.

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Enjoy your day as best you can.

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And I appreciate you talking.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_03]: You take care.

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Live well.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Take care, my friend.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Bye.

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_02]: As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support.

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And special thanks to Dustin in Montana.

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Dustin.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_02]: If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or X at Suicide Noted.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You can check the show notes to learn more about the podcast, including our membership

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and a bunch of other cool shit.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And that is all for episode number 226.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Stay strong.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Do the best you can.

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll talk to you soon.