Conrad in Iowa

[00:00:00] I think I really had my mind made up at that point.

[00:00:03] If they would have known that I was going through with the attempt,

[00:00:07] I'm one for physical contact, so, you know, a hug would have done wonders.

[00:00:11] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted.

[00:00:37] On this podcast I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories.

[00:00:41] Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives

[00:00:45] and we almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough.

[00:00:48] When we do talk about it, many of us, including me, we are not very good at it.

[00:00:52] So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations

[00:00:55] and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors

[00:00:58] so that more people in more places might feel a little less shitty and a little less alone.

[00:01:03] Now if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:01:07] Hello at suicidenoted.com as a backup for now, suicidenoted at gmail.com.

[00:01:12] You can find us on Facebook or Twitter slash X at suicidenoted.

[00:01:17] And of course you can reach out for any reason, even if you don't want to be a guest,

[00:01:20] I'd love to hear from you.

[00:01:21] You can learn more about the podcast in the show notes, including our membership.

[00:01:26] A special thanks to our premium and lifetime members, Helena and Moe.

[00:01:30] But of course, thank you to everybody who was involved or participate, listen, share, rate, review,

[00:01:38] all of that stuff. It's helpful. Thank you.

[00:01:40] This is the last Monday in May and I will be heading out quite early tomorrow morning to Denver,

[00:01:47] where I was asked to present at a conference.

[00:01:49] And I share that because a few of our podcast guests and or supporters will be presenting there as well.

[00:01:57] I think that's really kind of cool and a nice opportunity to keep talking about these conversations.

[00:02:03] So wish me luck.

[00:02:04] Finally, we are talking about suicide on this podcast.

[00:02:07] You probably know that I don't hold back.

[00:02:10] So please take that into account before you listen or as you listen.

[00:02:14] But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn today.

[00:02:18] I am talking with Conrad.

[00:02:20] Conrad lives in Iowa and he is a suicide attempt survivor in a car.

[00:02:29] Is Conrad another car?

[00:02:31] Yeah, it's I mean, I guess it goes to show that it's not easy to talk about.

[00:02:36] What kind of car?

[00:02:37] It's a Chevy Cruze. Just a small sedan.

[00:02:40] Right on. And you're in the great state of Iowa, is that right?

[00:02:44] I am in Iowa. Yeah.

[00:02:46] Okay. Are you in Iowa City?

[00:02:48] No, I'm not. I'm over by Des Moines, a suburb called Ankeny.

[00:02:52] All right. Well, I appreciate you connecting with me and wanting to talk.

[00:02:56] Yeah. I mean, I'm very nervous. One, it's quite a selfish thing, but yeah.

[00:03:01] Talking about oneself is selfish? By definition, it is selfish. But what do you mean?

[00:03:05] It's almost therapeutic kind of getting all this kind of stuff off your chest.

[00:03:09] It's also going to be something that I can look back on and reflect.

[00:03:13] Hopefully, maybe we'll see or share with others. So I thought it was a good idea.

[00:03:18] Now, I could be wrong here and it's a little embarrassing if I am, but I think you might be the first person.

[00:03:24] Do you know where I'm going with this?

[00:03:25] I think I do. Yeah.

[00:03:26] I've probably talked to someone in a Chevy. Conrad resides in some people would call it a flyover state.

[00:03:33] I'm not going to say it's a flyover state. Some people might, but specifically Iowa. I think it's a first.

[00:03:41] Well, I'm glad to be the first. You got to represent the state.

[00:03:44] Now, surely you're not the only person in that state who has seriously contemplated or tried to end their lives. That's not. No.

[00:03:52] No, absolutely not. Unfortunately.

[00:03:54] Des Moines. If you're going to spell Des Moines, remember the S's. I'm just going to leave it at that.

[00:04:01] And when you say it, don't say the S's. Let's just come full circle.

[00:04:06] Yeah, it's a mess.

[00:04:07] Where do we start?

[00:04:09] So I was three when I lost my dad to suicide. I mean, I didn't really get to know him that well, unfortunately.

[00:04:17] I think my parents put me into therapy when I was young, but it's hard to really know and remember that young.

[00:04:25] But I think growing up, it's always been a part of my life. So it's tough.

[00:04:29] Do you remember how old you were when you learned how he died?

[00:04:33] I learned shortly after. I think I was six. I don't remember the day, but I was told that we had come to the house and he was downstairs.

[00:04:44] He had hung himself. I never saw it, but my mom had gone downstairs and said, don't come downstairs. Stuff like that.

[00:04:52] But it had been brought up because when I was six, I had gotten off the bus and a neighbor had fallen off of the roof from a ladder.

[00:05:02] And he was injured with his head. And so then mortality kind of comes into play. I was asking questions.

[00:05:11] And I think I might have brought it up right up my father. And so death and injury was always on my mind at that point.

[00:05:19] And I'm truly guessing here, because Zoom isn't so great and my eyes suck. You were in your 20s maybe?

[00:05:26] Yeah, 26.

[00:05:27] 26. Okay. You're almost at the age of 27 where the rock stars all died apparently.

[00:05:34] I did not know that.

[00:05:36] Yeah, like Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin.

[00:05:38] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:05:39] But we are not here necessarily to talk about rock and roll.

[00:05:42] No. We're here to talk about suicide.

[00:05:44] Indeed. How many times have you said that in your life? We are here to talk about suicide.

[00:05:48] I mean, that's the first time I've said it. I've been in therapy quite a bit and they don't want to talk about it, but I'm here to talk about it.

[00:05:56] Fair. And I appreciate it. As will anyone who listens. You have been in and out of therapy for years and it's come up or they're not explicitly asking about it or are they completely...

[00:06:08] I've been, I think, to three or four different therapists. My first one didn't get really anywhere. It was like a first session and I think the only thing he said to me was, there's no magic pill to make you feel better. So I left him. What a joke.

[00:06:22] Anrad, you've heard the podcast, right?

[00:06:24] Yeah.

[00:06:25] There is a magic pill, but we're going to get to that later.

[00:06:28] So I went to the next one and they always want to talk about your feelings and they do all the normal stuff. But when you get to saying, oh, I'm ideating or I'm in a terrible mood or I'm thinking about killing myself, their first question is always, do you have a plan?

[00:06:49] It stops. The conversation stops right there. And it's so frustrating because now you're not having a conversation, now you're threatening me with a hospital stay, which I had plenty of as well.

[00:06:59] It is an example of what I, though I don't believe this is anything original here, call conversation killers.

[00:07:05] Yeah.

[00:07:07] And that is an example of one because almost every patient, and there are some exceptions, sure, particularly if you're younger, maybe where you're right. And then of course, I think it's the standard for imminent risk question.

[00:07:20] Yeah.

[00:07:21] I don't remember what they are, Zach, but do you have a plan? Do you have a method? Do you have a date? Okay. More importantly, you didn't have a chance to talk about whatever the fuck you're going through.

[00:07:32] No, you can't talk about it. So, I mean, you walk into the session, they're like, how are you today? You say you're good, but you can never get to, I'm feeling terrible, I want to kill myself. I feel like therapists, they should be required to give people hugs if they want them or just sit there and-

[00:07:50] God forbid, Conrad. No, yeah, right.

[00:07:53] Let's be human as opposed to transactional.

[00:07:56] Our language is overlapping a lot. You're speaking literally, you're saying words that I use.

[00:08:02] Maybe I'm listening to too much of the podcast.

[00:08:04] Yeah, I feel like your vocabulary is pretty robust, but perhaps. So, how many suicide attempts do you have or we can maybe say near attempts?

[00:08:13] So, I have two attempts and then I had one where I had a plan, but I got taken to the hospital and it never came to fruition, if you will.

[00:08:25] And a number of hospital stays.

[00:08:27] Four hospital stays, yeah.

[00:08:29] Four?

[00:08:30] Four, yeah. So, another time where the therapist sends you because you're at risk.

[00:08:35] So, two attempts, hospital, one near attempt, hospital, and one more with the therapist freaking out.

[00:08:41] Right.

[00:08:42] When I was sent, it didn't take me that long. And I'm not joking. When I was in that hospital and I was sent to the ER and there was no real communication about any of it, that I thought, I'm not suicidal. I'm fucking homicidal.

[00:08:54] Right.

[00:08:55] Maybe I should have been there because a lot of people go through that kind of thing and they're not homicidal.

[00:09:00] I wasn't going to really do anything, but I was- Let's just say I'm happy I don't have a gun and I didn't then.

[00:09:06] Right.

[00:09:07] The first attempt, how old were you, mas o menos?

[00:09:09] I think I was 20 or 21.

[00:09:11] So, the first one, funny enough, it actually happened where I'm parked right now.

[00:09:16] I am dead serious. This is the same place.

[00:09:19] I remember the day really well.

[00:09:21] So, I had just finished college.

[00:09:23] I was working at doing data entry, boring work.

[00:09:26] I was working at a wellness office just doing data entry.

[00:09:32] I was working and I actually looked up the suicide hotline on my work computer because I was just thinking about this all day.

[00:09:39] And my friends at work actually saw it.

[00:09:43] And so, they asked me about it that day.

[00:09:45] I said, it's nothing.

[00:09:46] I was just trying to be safe.

[00:09:48] So, later that night, still feeling awful, I went to a local bar and drank myself to- I think I had four or five beers.

[00:09:58] Absolutely sloshed.

[00:10:00] I was really just kind of done with everything.

[00:10:02] I wasn't getting anywhere with school, with work, careers.

[00:10:06] I didn't really see a point.

[00:10:07] I wasn't having fun.

[00:10:08] And so, I came to where I'm at now.

[00:10:10] I came to- it's a marsh in the area, small pond.

[00:10:14] Obviously, it wouldn't have worked, but I walked out into the pond and I was going to drown myself.

[00:10:18] But while I did this, I called the suicide hotline because I wanted to have someone know that I had died.

[00:10:26] It was just to be like, hey, I'm going to kill myself.

[00:10:29] Right.

[00:10:30] Where I'm at, that kind of thing.

[00:10:32] You know then, and maybe your state of mind in that moment was different, but did you know then that if this doesn't work, they're going to get me and I'm going to go to a hospital?

[00:10:41] They're going to send me to a hospital.

[00:10:42] And I probably won't like it very much.

[00:10:44] I did not know then.

[00:10:46] I thought they were just going to talk to me, maybe make me feel better.

[00:10:50] I just wanted someone to talk to.

[00:10:52] I did not know.

[00:10:53] I think they actually might have tracked my phone.

[00:10:55] I never told them where I was, but I just told them that I was, I think I might have said I was in a pond, but there's a bunch of ponds.

[00:11:01] I was standing there with the phone in my hand in the middle of the pond.

[00:11:05] And then I noticed that two police cars pulled up into the little parking area.

[00:11:10] And so they came into the water, pulled me out.

[00:11:14] And you know, then I went to the hospital and did the whole ER to hospital stay.

[00:11:20] That's an interesting method.

[00:11:21] I think it was a little impulsive.

[00:11:23] It wasn't very thought out.

[00:11:24] Can you stand in the marsh?

[00:11:25] I think it's pretty much, you can stand in it.

[00:11:28] I think you have to, I think there's probably some parts further out, but for the most part, it's like maybe chest high if you're out in the middle.

[00:11:35] So you'd have to, I mean, I just have to be like dead man floating.

[00:11:38] There wasn't, and I know how to swim.

[00:11:40] So what I'm wondering is when the police come, however many minutes later, like are you just standing there?

[00:11:45] What are you doing?

[00:11:46] I think I was just standing there.

[00:11:48] I hadn't, I hadn't gotten into drowning myself.

[00:11:51] I was staying there with the phone crying to this person.

[00:11:55] And then they showed up, you know, they, they coerced me out.

[00:11:59] So dripping wet, getting in the police car.

[00:12:02] Right?

[00:12:03] There's a recording of that somewhere.

[00:12:05] There probably is.

[00:12:06] Yeah.

[00:12:07] Maybe I should ask for it.

[00:12:08] I don't know if you're going to get it, but you can ask for it.

[00:12:11] I don't know how that works.

[00:12:12] You should be able to get it.

[00:12:13] It's yours.

[00:12:14] Yeah.

[00:12:15] How long were you in the hospital?

[00:12:17] So I think every single stay I was in there about a week.

[00:12:22] And every single time it's been like towards the end of the week, you know, the hospital stays really weren't that bad.

[00:12:27] The hospital that's here is actually, I mean, I haven't been to any others, but I think it's fairly nice.

[00:12:33] I mean, you know, the furniture's, you know, not to be comfy.

[00:12:36] It's not there to be comfy.

[00:12:37] Right.

[00:12:38] It's like hard plastic.

[00:12:39] But the techs and the nurses, you know, they're all, they do what they can.

[00:12:42] Right.

[00:12:43] You know, all the door, door knobs are rounded.

[00:12:46] You know, they take away all your stuff, but there is a bunch of recreational stuff.

[00:12:50] There was therapy.

[00:12:51] There was all this stuff.

[00:12:52] You can't go anywhere.

[00:12:54] Right.

[00:12:55] So you're restricted.

[00:12:56] Yeah.

[00:12:57] By the way, I'm going to push back a little bit.

[00:12:58] I think the fucking furniture should be comfortable.

[00:13:00] You know, it should be, especially with how much you have to pay.

[00:13:03] Let's not.

[00:13:04] Can we not?

[00:13:05] We can if you want to.

[00:13:07] No, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:13:08] Because then I'm going to hit the bottle and that scotch over there early.

[00:13:11] If we start talking about that shit.

[00:13:13] All right.

[00:13:14] So early 20s, attempt number one, try to drown yourself.

[00:13:18] Went to the hospital when your colleagues saw that you had looked for the suicide

[00:13:23] hotline and maybe the bartender when you went to get that drink.

[00:13:27] Is there anything they could have done or said that would have led you to not go

[00:13:32] to the marsh?

[00:13:33] I think I really had my mind made up at that point.

[00:13:36] You know, if they would have taught, if they would have known that I was going

[00:13:40] through with, with the attempt, I'm one for physical contact.

[00:13:44] So, you know, a hug would have done wonders.

[00:13:46] You know, I, my parents, you know, super loving and things like that, but I've

[00:13:50] never really been in relationships, things like that.

[00:13:52] So, you know, human connection that would have done wonders for me.

[00:13:55] You know, just someone to talk to since I've always lived alone, you know,

[00:13:58] someone to hang out with.

[00:13:59] I think that would have done wonders too.

[00:14:01] It's hard to say.

[00:14:02] I still have my mind made up.

[00:14:04] I think still did or still do still do actually.

[00:14:08] We're going to talk about that with your permission.

[00:14:10] So this is one of these questions you're not supposed to ask, but why did you

[00:14:15] try to kill yourself?

[00:14:16] You know, I think about that a lot.

[00:14:18] It's really tough because, you know, looking, if you look at this from an

[00:14:23] outside perspective, it doesn't make sense.

[00:14:25] Right.

[00:14:26] My, my father took his life.

[00:14:28] You know, you'd think I'd be grieving.

[00:14:30] I, you know, want for something, you know, do everything to, to love people.

[00:14:34] But I think just growing up, I've always felt like a black sheep.

[00:14:38] I, I've always dealt with depression and things like that mindsets.

[00:14:42] But I just, you know, don't feel like I, I I've been going through this

[00:14:46] existential nihilism lately, just like the meaning of life.

[00:14:50] And I've never really felt like I was succeeding or like, what's,

[00:14:53] what's the point?

[00:14:54] It's tough because it doesn't make sense.

[00:14:57] Right.

[00:14:58] Like I lost my father.

[00:14:59] Why would I do that to my mother again?

[00:15:01] I think about that all the time.

[00:15:02] Probably the only reason I'm still here now is, you know, thinking about my

[00:15:06] mom and how she would deal with it, which is tough because I don't want to be

[00:15:10] around.

[00:15:11] Does she know that, that the main reason you're sticking around is for her?

[00:15:15] She probably is aware.

[00:15:16] I haven't said it.

[00:15:17] I haven't said it blatantly, but I think she probably knows it.

[00:15:19] I got a twin sister and an older brother, you know, we grew up great, but yeah,

[00:15:23] just never fit.

[00:15:24] Never clicked bullied in schools, never belonged.

[00:15:27] You know, you finished college.

[00:15:28] Yeah.

[00:15:29] Two degrees.

[00:15:30] One in animation and one in game design.

[00:15:32] Oh, wow.

[00:15:33] That's fascinating.

[00:15:34] So I'm an artist.

[00:15:35] Yeah.

[00:15:36] So are you able to make money now doing that?

[00:15:38] I actually just got laid off, which has probably been my, my latest spiral with

[00:15:43] my depression laid off.

[00:15:45] Game industry is terrible, but I still do it in my free time.

[00:15:49] That's so cool.

[00:15:50] Game is going to game.

[00:15:51] I don't know shit about games, so I'm not going to try to talk like a cool

[00:15:55] gamer.

[00:15:56] That's fine.

[00:15:57] All right.

[00:15:59] So number two, it's how long after the first one did you either try or almost

[00:16:04] try?

[00:16:05] So it was, it was fairly close to the next one.

[00:16:08] I think it was only six months.

[00:16:10] I tried again.

[00:16:11] I think this was another, it was another impulse.

[00:16:14] I was just, you know, continuing with that lifestyle, living alone, working

[00:16:19] data entry jobs, not getting anywhere no relationships.

[00:16:25] And I think I had a, yeah, I had a doctor's appointment.

[00:16:28] Just a random doctor's appointment.

[00:16:31] And then later that day I had, I was going to see a psychiatrist.

[00:16:35] And so I went to the doctor's appointment.

[00:16:37] They told me some lab work probably made me upset.

[00:16:41] And then I went to the psychiatrist.

[00:16:43] Sorry, I should back up before I went to the doctors.

[00:16:47] I had already been on with a different psychiatrist and I took a handful of

[00:16:52] meds.

[00:16:53] I don't remember what they were, everything, all the bottles I had or all

[00:16:56] the pills I had.

[00:16:57] I took them.

[00:16:58] Prescribments.

[00:16:59] Yes.

[00:17:00] Prescribe it not over the counter, like SSRIs and things like that.

[00:17:02] Right.

[00:17:03] And I took them because I was again over, I was done with everything going

[00:17:07] nowhere.

[00:17:08] So I took the pills knowing that I are hoping that I would die, but I wanted

[00:17:13] to again be somewhere or with someone.

[00:17:16] So I wasn't alone or found by like my parents.

[00:17:20] So I, yeah, I went to the psychiatrist and she was asking me questions.

[00:17:24] And you know, I think I was shaking nervously.

[00:17:28] I was starting to get blurry vision, starting to convulse a little bit.

[00:17:32] And she's like, is there anything I need to know?

[00:17:34] I shook my head and she said, are you sure?

[00:17:36] Is there anything I need to know?

[00:17:38] And I said, yes, actually.

[00:17:41] I took a bunch of medication and I'll never, never forget this.

[00:17:46] She stopped what she was doing.

[00:17:48] She asked me one question.

[00:17:49] She said, I have one question for you.

[00:17:51] Are you okay with physical contact?

[00:17:53] I said, yes.

[00:17:54] And she gave me a hug.

[00:17:56] I felt great for a split second, but then, you know, they started doing all

[00:18:00] their stuff.

[00:18:01] They took my shirt off.

[00:18:02] They started checking the EKG.

[00:18:04] They called the ambulance and things like that.

[00:18:07] And again, you know, back to the hospital.

[00:18:09] So I don't think I ever had to do any of the charcoal or anything like that,

[00:18:14] but another failed attempt.

[00:18:16] Someone hearing you might say, you know, Conrad both times saw somebody or

[00:18:21] called somebody.

[00:18:23] Maybe he didn't really want to die, but I don't think that's what it was.

[00:18:26] And tell me if I'm wrong.

[00:18:28] I'm sometimes going my little speculation game here.

[00:18:30] It seems to me more that you just either didn't want to die alone or you

[00:18:34] wanted to be found.

[00:18:36] It's not the same as not wanting to die.

[00:18:38] Yeah, no, I definitely, definitely want to die.

[00:18:41] I didn't want to do this at my house and then have my mom find me or I

[00:18:46] didn't want to do this out in the woods and then not be found for weeks.

[00:18:51] I was still thinking about my parents or thinking about others while I was

[00:18:57] trying to die, which is the thing that stops me even now.

[00:19:01] And ironic in that that's rarely what people, I don't think they don't say

[00:19:06] that about people who try.

[00:19:09] I feel weird a lot of the time because I do think about that.

[00:19:11] I listen to the podcast and I hear people say, you know, that they did this

[00:19:16] because they didn't think or they thought they will be better off or they do

[00:19:21] this because they are feeling some sort of way.

[00:19:24] And I think a lot of the reason that I don't want to be around is because I

[00:19:29] don't feel anything.

[00:19:30] I feel like I would be better off, not them.

[00:19:33] I know it would make them hurt.

[00:19:34] And you know, you'd be better off and you actually don't know what's on

[00:19:37] the other side.

[00:19:38] No, but I mean, I think about it a lot.

[00:19:41] And if you think about going to sleep, you go to bed.

[00:19:44] If you don't have a dream, nothing happens.

[00:19:47] And then you wake up in the morning.

[00:19:49] So if I just don't wake up, it's like going to bed, which is a sick way to

[00:19:52] think about it, I guess.

[00:19:53] But, you know, if you don't wake up, then, you know, you just sleep.

[00:19:57] Yeah.

[00:19:58] Do you remember when you first started thinking about ending your life?

[00:20:01] I think actively thinking about ending my life was probably in high school,

[00:20:06] being bullied and people always telling you you're this special kid and you're

[00:20:10] smart and you're this and that.

[00:20:12] And then you have expectations and then not meeting them and, you know,

[00:20:15] feeling worthless.

[00:20:16] So I am really glad I didn't grow up as a kid or junior high,

[00:20:21] high school with social media.

[00:20:22] Yeah.

[00:20:23] Comparing yourself.

[00:20:24] It's the easiest thing to do.

[00:20:27] So that was your like 22 ish.

[00:20:30] You had two attempts in a not very long period of time.

[00:20:33] Yeah.

[00:20:34] What happens the third time?

[00:20:36] So the third time was actually, it was this, it was just this January.

[00:20:40] I didn't get to attempt, but I had a plan.

[00:20:44] You know, I had, I had rope.

[00:20:47] I had place I was going to go to, but I was talking to my psychiatrist.

[00:20:52] She's actually probably better than some of my therapists.

[00:20:54] You know, she would ask, you know how I'm doing.

[00:20:56] Conrad.

[00:20:57] I just want to be clear on something.

[00:20:58] She was better than your therapists.

[00:21:00] She asked you how you were doing.

[00:21:02] Let's just connect those dots.

[00:21:04] Yeah.

[00:21:05] Therapists.

[00:21:06] They don't well, the ones that I had,

[00:21:07] they just had these motions that they had to go through with CBT and,

[00:21:10] you know,

[00:21:11] they would listen to something and then they would give you a recommendation

[00:21:15] on how you could fix it.

[00:21:16] Or maybe you should try this.

[00:21:17] Maybe you should try that.

[00:21:18] So they,

[00:21:19] they had like a script that they were going through every time I went to a

[00:21:23] therapist. So transactional. Yeah. No hugs allowed. No,

[00:21:28] I sure wish they could all that. And here we are talking.

[00:21:32] I'm surprised I messaged. Why is that?

[00:21:34] I don't think of myself much as like a talker. I'm a,

[00:21:38] I'm very introverted.

[00:21:39] I was comparing my story to all the other stories and I'm like, Oh,

[00:21:43] what if it's not sad enough?

[00:21:45] Or what if I don't talk long enough or what if I don't articulate myself?

[00:21:49] Well, there were so many times I was going to be like, Nope, I don't,

[00:21:52] I can't do it.

[00:21:53] Well, I am glad you did it. I might've been confused.

[00:21:56] There were four hospital stays, two attempts,

[00:21:58] one near attempt and another time in which your therapist sent you.

[00:22:02] Yeah. I got out of the hospital two months ago. I went to therapy again.

[00:22:06] I've been, I started TMS, but you know,

[00:22:10] nothing seems to change. I've been doing a lot worse lately. So no,

[00:22:13] I don't think anything's changed. Still around, but yeah,

[00:22:16] you're still alive.

[00:22:17] Not to simplify any of this,

[00:22:20] but sometimes the stuff we're not getting,

[00:22:22] like you said something that was really rather profound, but simple.

[00:22:26] And you said you just wanted to get a,

[00:22:28] you wanted to hug somebody or be hugged by somebody. Yeah.

[00:22:31] Like I wonder if that was in your life.

[00:22:34] Does that change something? And not a small thing.

[00:22:36] Like I'm not saying 24 seven, you're being hugged.

[00:22:39] That's probably impractical, but you know what I mean?

[00:22:41] Like it's not as if you need a lobotomy or, you know,

[00:22:44] making a quarter million dollars. It's a simple thing. Right.

[00:22:49] You know, most people, you know, there may be some people who don't,

[00:22:51] who don't prefer, you know, getting a hug.

[00:22:54] But I think a lot of people, if you,

[00:22:57] if you just gave them a hug or if you just talk to them,

[00:23:00] ask them how they're doing those simple things honestly do a lot for some

[00:23:03] people, just a simple smile. And it is so simple.

[00:23:06] But I think people are so set in doing the things that they want to do that

[00:23:10] or going through their day that that's often overlooked.

[00:23:14] And then people end up doing things.

[00:23:16] For whatever reasons we, we very much moved away from anything.

[00:23:19] And I have some ideas why, but no physical contact. And I think, why,

[00:23:23] why would you have done that? Like, that doesn't make sense.

[00:23:27] And it comes back to probably liability and this and that. And I'm like, Oh,

[00:23:32] okay. So now we know where your priorities are.

[00:23:34] That doesn't really help either of us, but now you're in a car.

[00:23:38] I'm in a car near the marsh. Yep. Right in front of me, there's kids playing.

[00:23:42] There's people on bikes and people walking.

[00:23:46] There's a nice walk like path here. So it's, it's a nice place.

[00:23:49] How often do you think about it? Sounds like you're thinking about it often.

[00:23:53] Every day, every day. I'm ideating lately more than others.

[00:23:57] I can't get it out of my mind, you know, driving down the road,

[00:24:00] get flashes of things that I could be doing or things that I could be trying

[00:24:04] and things like that. So it's, it's hard to not think about it.

[00:24:07] Yeah. I always wonder about anybody who's ideating so often,

[00:24:11] I imagine as you live your life, you're seeing opportunities essentially.

[00:24:15] I think that's the reason that I, people say I have a really good work ethic and

[00:24:20] I think it's a facade.

[00:24:22] I work so hard to distract myself when I'm at work doing data entry.

[00:24:26] It's a menial job,

[00:24:28] but I work as fast as I can with listening to as loud of music as I can to

[00:24:34] distract myself or to get my mind off things. So,

[00:24:37] or like when I'm at home and I'm doing hobbies, I'm, if I'm playing games,

[00:24:40] I'll be watching a show to distract myself from those thoughts.

[00:24:44] So it's, it's always just a distraction.

[00:24:47] When did you find the podcast?

[00:24:49] I actually found the podcast, I think it was right after my first attempt.

[00:24:54] So a while ago,

[00:24:55] really a while ago,

[00:24:56] I had my first attempt and thought, well, I, you know,

[00:25:00] that wasn't that good. So I actually looked up on Spotify,

[00:25:04] but I was actually looking for it for a different reason.

[00:25:06] I wasn't looking for it for someone to connect with.

[00:25:09] I was actually looking for ideas.

[00:25:11] I figured if someone was telling their story,

[00:25:13] they may say something and then I could try that instead.

[00:25:16] I don't think I listened to it for a while.

[00:25:18] I recently picked it up after my most recent hospital stay.

[00:25:21] I've been listening to it like three or four podcasts or three or four episodes

[00:25:25] a day at work.

[00:25:26] So is the main reason still to get ideas?

[00:25:28] No, it's not.

[00:25:29] I mean, now it's just, uh, you know, seeing like-minded, you know,

[00:25:32] seeing how people, other people cope hearing their stories.

[00:25:35] It's some sort of community, just understanding, you know,

[00:25:39] hearing people and then, you know, seeing a connection that's, you know,

[00:25:43] obviously I'll never meet these people, but I understand them.

[00:25:46] So I feel connected.

[00:25:48] Unless I do a suicide noted retreat.

[00:25:50] I don't think you're going to find any new ways to end your life on this thing.

[00:25:54] I don't, you know, them.

[00:25:55] Everyone knows there's ways to find stuff.

[00:25:57] I've found, I found a website.

[00:25:59] It's out there.

[00:26:00] Yep.

[00:26:01] Doesn't make it okay to go out blasting a gazillion ideas,

[00:26:05] but it's out there.

[00:26:06] Yeah.

[00:26:07] So here are my guesses.

[00:26:08] Ready?

[00:26:09] No one knows we're talking.

[00:26:10] No.

[00:26:11] You said you have no relationships.

[00:26:13] Does that include friendships?

[00:26:14] No, I have, I have a few friends, all work related.

[00:26:18] I have one friend from high school.

[00:26:20] Um, so I have people to talk to you, but, uh, no,

[00:26:23] no romantic relationships.

[00:26:25] But when you, you can talk to them about suicide.

[00:26:27] No, absolutely not.

[00:26:29] You know, a lot of them have found out about my mental health and a lot of

[00:26:33] them say, you know, you can talk to us about anything, but you know,

[00:26:37] I found out that a few of them, you know, right when, you know,

[00:26:40] they heard about me ideating first thing they do either call my mom or

[00:26:44] call a wellness check.

[00:26:46] So it's like, I can't really talk to you because yeah.

[00:26:48] Back to the hospital.

[00:26:49] I don't want to go to the hospital.

[00:26:51] I just want someone to talk to, or maybe just a friend to give me a hug.

[00:26:54] We got to work that in the memoir title.

[00:26:56] The word of hug isn't in there.

[00:26:58] I am having a bit of an issue with that.

[00:27:00] How many people know that you attempted?

[00:27:02] Most of my family, they know that something puts me in the hospital.

[00:27:06] They don't, I mean, I never, I haven't told them specific details,

[00:27:09] but I think they can put two and two together.

[00:27:11] My friends know a couple of handfuls.

[00:27:13] You said you've been in and out of therapy.

[00:27:15] You brought up doctors before.

[00:27:17] So did you ever get a diagnosis you think is accurate?

[00:27:19] Yeah.

[00:27:20] When I was in high school, it was ADD and OCD.

[00:27:24] And recently major depressive disorder with treatment resistance

[00:27:28] and psychotic features.

[00:27:30] Psychotic features?

[00:27:31] Tell me more.

[00:27:32] That's actually part of the reason that landed me in the hospital

[00:27:35] two months ago.

[00:27:36] Very recent.

[00:27:37] This hasn't happened in the past, but I was going through psychosis,

[00:27:40] which for me looked like I was hearing voices and I was seeing things.

[00:27:45] I was seeing figures.

[00:27:46] So obviously I told my psychiatrist that.

[00:27:49] And also I started self-harming because of the voices.

[00:27:53] I feel like mostly people that self-harm start when they're a lot younger,

[00:27:57] but I didn't start until this year.

[00:27:59] When you say self-harm, you're cutting?

[00:28:01] Yeah, cutting.

[00:28:02] I would be terrified.

[00:28:03] It's a really weird feeling because I'm aware it's unhealthy.

[00:28:08] I'm aware that there's a stigma behind it.

[00:28:10] And so I have to think about where I want to cut.

[00:28:13] But I know in the moment when I think about cutting

[00:28:16] that I'm going to feel a sense of relief.

[00:28:19] I think the reason I started cutting and why I continue to cut

[00:28:23] is because I, for the longest time, felt like I had no control over my life.

[00:28:28] And so cutting is taking control.

[00:28:31] And then also because I feel like I have lost sense of my emotions,

[00:28:37] lack of feeling joy or happiness and things like that,

[00:28:41] that I can feel euphoric when you cut because of adrenaline.

[00:28:45] I was also, in addition to that, referring to hearing voices.

[00:28:49] That's a new thing for you.

[00:28:51] Yes.

[00:28:52] So that is, wow.

[00:28:54] It's scary.

[00:28:55] At the time it seems rational.

[00:28:58] You're like, oh, I'm just talking to, I think the voice I was attributing it to

[00:29:02] is my father, so I'm talking to my father,

[00:29:05] which at the time you'd think is rational.

[00:29:07] Oh, I'm just talking.

[00:29:09] Or, oh, I'm just seeing this little figure running around.

[00:29:12] But after a fact you're like, okay, that's obviously not normal.

[00:29:15] Yeah, hyper aware.

[00:29:17] Do you ever think about the days that you tried

[00:29:19] and wish it had gone differently?

[00:29:20] Absolutely.

[00:29:21] I don't really want to be around anymore, so I wish I was successful,

[00:29:24] if that's the term you want to use.

[00:29:26] But yeah.

[00:29:27] If you were planning to end your life and you did have plan, method, means, date,

[00:29:32] would you tell me?

[00:29:33] Yeah.

[00:29:34] I mean, I could tell you this.

[00:29:35] I actually just bought a gun.

[00:29:37] Was that easy to do in Iowa?

[00:29:38] It was, yeah.

[00:29:39] I set up an appointment.

[00:29:41] I picked one out.

[00:29:42] We did a little bit of paperwork.

[00:29:43] He did a background check.

[00:29:44] And—

[00:29:45] I'm not saying what the background check should or shouldn't include,

[00:29:49] but you did have a few hospital stays.

[00:29:52] Yeah, I think the background check is purely for criminal.

[00:29:57] So again, I don't have any strong feelings one way or another on this.

[00:30:01] People might have a problem with that.

[00:30:03] I don't care.

[00:30:04] I thought that part of the background check was to somehow gauge,

[00:30:08] not that it could really do this effectively, mental health and that kind of thing.

[00:30:13] I'm not sure.

[00:30:14] What kind of guns you get?

[00:30:15] It's a revolver.

[00:30:16] Do you know anything about guns?

[00:30:18] Nope.

[00:30:19] Never owned a gun.

[00:30:20] Never— I shot some shotguns back in Boy Scouts.

[00:30:22] That's it.

[00:30:23] So you walked into a gun shop.

[00:30:25] How long ago was that?

[00:30:26] Like an hour ago.

[00:30:27] So is that coincidence that we're talking an hour ago?

[00:30:30] Was it just how it worked out or is there—

[00:30:32] I think it's just coincidence.

[00:30:34] We scheduled this a while ago, but last week was fine.

[00:30:37] I was doing okay.

[00:30:39] But just this week, I've just been doing pretty awful.

[00:30:42] And so I just thought about it and I was like, what can I do?

[00:30:46] And thought about going to buy a gun.

[00:30:49] So the guy or the woman there doesn't ask—

[00:30:51] If I were working there, I wouldn't ask, why do you want to have a gun?

[00:30:54] I'd be like, what do you want to use it for?

[00:30:56] So that we could pick out the right gun for you.

[00:30:58] Yeah, I mean, that's how he started the conversation.

[00:31:00] Very cordial.

[00:31:02] And I think he prompted it.

[00:31:04] He said, is this for home protection?

[00:31:06] And I just said yes.

[00:31:07] So then you just felt some of them and asked some questions and picked a revolver.

[00:31:11] It's funny enough, I'd been looking at them today during work.

[00:31:15] He had an online store.

[00:31:16] And so I just looked at some, thought some looked cool.

[00:31:20] I didn't think about the size of the bullets or anything like that.

[00:31:23] I just picked one out, said that one's cool.

[00:31:26] And I asked if he had it.

[00:31:27] He said, yeah, I actually have it.

[00:31:28] Here, you can look at it.

[00:31:29] It's in your car right now.

[00:31:30] It's behind me.

[00:31:31] It's behind you?

[00:31:32] It's behind me on the floor.

[00:31:34] Did you buy bullets?

[00:31:35] I bought bullets, I bought a case.

[00:31:37] Trying to be responsible.

[00:31:38] Are the bullets in the gun?

[00:31:40] No.

[00:31:41] I got other things.

[00:31:42] There's other things that I need to do.

[00:31:44] You know, get my affairs in order.

[00:31:46] I still want to write a note.

[00:31:48] I still have, I have plans, things that I want to do before I end my life.

[00:31:52] So we don't really need to talk about the pink and purple pill.

[00:31:55] That's pretty clear.

[00:31:56] No, I take it.

[00:31:57] Right now.

[00:31:58] Go to sleep in your car, next Chevy Cruze.

[00:32:00] Yeah.

[00:32:01] I might text my mom and say I love her, but.

[00:32:03] Would she know something was up?

[00:32:04] Not if I just said I love you.

[00:32:06] Because every time we talk, we say that.

[00:32:08] Is she a hugger?

[00:32:09] Oh, she's a big hugger.

[00:32:10] That's where I get it from.

[00:32:11] Okay.

[00:32:12] Every time I see her, she says give me a hug.

[00:32:14] Good mom.

[00:32:15] That's awesome.

[00:32:16] Make it, what's your birthday?

[00:32:17] My birthday is June 7th.

[00:32:18] All right.

[00:32:19] So if I sent you an email saying happy birthday, Conrad, would you be able to see that email?

[00:32:24] I don't know if I would.

[00:32:25] No, I don't think so.

[00:32:27] I would imagine in that kind of space, you don't really have.

[00:32:30] If I were to ask you, what does it feel like to be in the space you're in?

[00:32:33] It's kind of tricky, but it sounds to me, tell me if I'm wrong.

[00:32:36] A lot of it is just, I want to do this.

[00:32:38] So I don't know if the word's hopeful, but I want to do this.

[00:32:41] Yeah.

[00:32:42] You know, I've been thinking about this and there's, I think I, during that first attempt,

[00:32:46] even how half-assed it was in the marsh, I feel like I did die that day.

[00:32:52] I don't cry.

[00:32:53] I don't laugh other than, you know, like masking and, you know, how I present to people.

[00:33:00] I don't feel love really.

[00:33:02] I often think about what's the point.

[00:33:04] And so this is my solution.

[00:33:07] Fear?

[00:33:08] Yeah.

[00:33:09] Fear of how my family will do.

[00:33:11] Like I said, that's one of the reasons I haven't done it yet is because, and the reason I'm

[00:33:16] not in my house right now talking to you, because my mom would be around and she could

[00:33:22] hear and she would look at me and then I'd see her face.

[00:33:26] And that's the worst because then I'm doing again what she already went through with my

[00:33:30] father.

[00:33:31] No fear around it maybe not working?

[00:33:34] I don't see this not working.

[00:33:36] It's pretty straightforward with a gun.

[00:33:39] I mean, maybe paralysis.

[00:33:41] I don't know.

[00:33:42] It was very effective for my buddy back in the day.

[00:33:45] He had a Glock.

[00:33:46] He was a cop.

[00:33:47] I've thought about maybe getting different kinds of bullets, you know, hollow points,

[00:33:51] things like that.

[00:33:52] But I don't know anything about guns or bullets.

[00:33:54] I don't either.

[00:33:55] I don't know it.

[00:33:56] All of the things you just said about, I don't laugh, I don't cry.

[00:34:00] Does anything help?

[00:34:01] When I was living alone, I would come home from work and drink three beers and go to

[00:34:05] sleep and then do the next day, you know, drink to fall asleep and wake up and do it

[00:34:10] again.

[00:34:11] But yeah, art helps, you know, being an artist, expressing my thoughts, putting it down on

[00:34:16] paper or making an animation or things like that.

[00:34:19] Yeah, it helps.

[00:34:20] Your memoir is really going to be like a graphic thing or animated up to yin yang.

[00:34:26] Yeah.

[00:34:27] Why did you move back in with your mom?

[00:34:28] So I actually just come back from art school.

[00:34:30] So I moved up to Vancouver.

[00:34:32] I've been in Iowa all my life, moved up to Vancouver, Canada to do the game art design

[00:34:39] program.

[00:34:40] And then I came back and I'm in between places right now.

[00:34:43] How'd you do in Vancouver?

[00:34:44] Great.

[00:34:45] I graduated with honors.

[00:34:46] Life up there was great.

[00:34:48] Surprisingly, I did better without medication and without family or friends around than

[00:34:54] I do here.

[00:34:55] I think part of it was the freedom.

[00:34:58] I feel quite restricted here and, you know, there I could do whatever I wanted.

[00:35:02] Plus I exercise quite a bit since it's a lot like New York where you have to walk everywhere

[00:35:08] because parking's atrocious.

[00:35:10] I think the physical component of walking around really helped.

[00:35:14] I guess you could say exercise is a good thing.

[00:35:16] Dopamine.

[00:35:17] Yeah, I mean, again, you know, not always easy to do, but like getting back to the hug

[00:35:22] thing, pretty straightforward.

[00:35:24] Yeah.

[00:35:25] Do you ever feel like just getting in this Chevy Cruze of yours and just leaving fucking

[00:35:29] Iowa?

[00:35:30] Absolutely.

[00:35:31] Every day.

[00:35:32] What holds you back?

[00:35:33] Expectation.

[00:35:34] I have the funds to, you know, I could go across the world if I wanted to right now,

[00:35:38] but I have friends around or, you know, you're supposed to put in two weeks notice or you're

[00:35:44] supposed to have a place to live before you go somewhere or have a job before you go somewhere.

[00:35:48] So all these things that hold me back, I guess.

[00:35:51] I think that's part of the reason I'm kind of over things.

[00:35:54] I've felt like I have no control in my own life.

[00:35:58] I'm just looking for that control and, you know, this is a form of control, you know,

[00:36:03] taking my life.

[00:36:04] But moving away would also be a form of control.

[00:36:07] I feel like I'm living someone else, someone else's life, what everyone else wants.

[00:36:11] Yeah.

[00:36:12] I think it's kind of fascinating to have these conversations about, for lack of a better

[00:36:16] word, the suicidal mind.

[00:36:18] I'm speculating here, but I would imagine to outsiders they would say, here's an example,

[00:36:22] right?

[00:36:23] If you were in Vancouver and you're doing better, go to fucking Vancouver.

[00:36:26] If you like cities or you like warmth or you like this or you like that, you know, essentially

[00:36:31] saying do whatever you can to be okay, ergo not die.

[00:36:36] But that's not how your brain is working.

[00:36:38] No, I mean, I've thought about, I was actually just thinking about this today.

[00:36:42] I really want to go to Norway or like Iceland, go up on the hills, beautiful sunset, tall

[00:36:48] grass, wind.

[00:36:49] I think it'd be so beautiful for some reason to go there, feel free, do some art and then

[00:36:57] end my life because it's a happy ending to something I feel like I can't have a happy

[00:37:03] ending with otherwise.

[00:37:05] Are you on social media?

[00:37:06] I am, yeah.

[00:37:07] Let's just say I saw you with a photograph of you in Oslo or Reykjavik, would I think,

[00:37:13] oh shit, shit's going down?

[00:37:15] Probably, yeah.

[00:37:16] Are there any myths you want to dispel, misconceptions?

[00:37:19] I think absolutely the biggest myth is suicide is selfish.

[00:37:24] I don't see one how being selfish, you're looking for pleasure in something.

[00:37:28] You know, even me just thinking about my father, I think he was strong.

[00:37:32] I think he chose that because he was struggling, me because I'm struggling, but I'm thinking

[00:37:38] about everyone else.

[00:37:39] So absolutely not.

[00:37:41] It's the least selfish thing you can do because I'm thinking about everyone else instead of

[00:37:46] me.

[00:37:47] Right.

[00:37:48] I've thought about this recently, like I almost only hear with a few exceptions it's

[00:37:52] not selfish, but I'm only talking to suicide attempt survivors.

[00:37:56] Like if I had a podcast, which I won't, with suicide loss survivors, probably a different

[00:38:02] conversation.

[00:38:03] Which I am technically both.

[00:38:05] You are.

[00:38:06] But I still don't think it's selfish.

[00:38:09] I agree.

[00:38:10] You know, I think it takes a lot of strength.

[00:38:12] I think a lot of people say that suicide attempt survivors are people who ideate, are weak,

[00:38:17] but I think there's a strength in fighting for as long as we do, dealing with these thoughts

[00:38:24] and the shame that comes with these mental illnesses and the stigmas around them.

[00:38:29] So I think it takes a lot of strength and a lot of intellect to deal and to put on a

[00:38:36] show for people to continue to live.

[00:38:39] Why is there not a professional hugger as a job?

[00:38:41] You know, that's a really good question.

[00:38:43] I might sign up for it.

[00:38:45] You had said that you have some things to take care of.

[00:38:48] One of them you mentioned is a note.

[00:38:49] Yeah.

[00:38:50] Do you know what you're going to have an idea of what you'll write in the note?

[00:38:52] I have a good idea.

[00:38:54] I've written some in the past saying, you know, I'm sorry.

[00:38:57] I think I'd make sure to tell people that it's not their fault.

[00:39:01] You know, people, you can only say so much and people will take it a certain way.

[00:39:05] But I would do everything in my power to dispel any beliefs that they have that it might be

[00:39:10] their fault or that they had control because it is, after all, my own idea or my idea to

[00:39:16] take my own life and my desire.

[00:39:18] And there's nothing they can do to change it.

[00:39:21] As somebody who spends a lot of time doing animation, I'm wondering if you created the

[00:39:27] pill like I created the pill.

[00:39:29] I could have had one color.

[00:39:31] I chose two colors.

[00:39:32] The two colors I chose were pink and purple.

[00:39:34] But what would you have chosen?

[00:39:36] I mean, I probably would have chosen black, just simple black.

[00:39:40] Just black.

[00:39:41] Absence of, it's metaphorical, being in the absence of something.

[00:39:46] So very different because yours is one color, mine is two, mine is hastelli, yours is not.

[00:39:51] Pink and purple is a very fun combination.

[00:39:54] I don't know why.

[00:39:56] No idea why I did that.

[00:39:58] I sometimes think white and lime green would be cool.

[00:40:01] That's a good combination, yeah.

[00:40:03] I could talk your ear off about color theory.

[00:40:05] I bet.

[00:40:06] I don't think I asked you.

[00:40:08] I asked you when you found the podcast or why you listened to the podcast.

[00:40:12] I don't actually think I asked you directly why did you choose to reach out and talk about it with me.

[00:40:19] And thereby others will hear this.

[00:40:21] It's almost a time capsule for myself.

[00:40:24] Besides the point how depressing this episode may have been, I think a lot of people will get something out of it.

[00:40:31] The same way I get something out of listening to everyone else's stories, whether they relate or not.

[00:40:37] You relate to this podcast so much and I felt like it was a good idea to contribute.

[00:40:43] And I appreciate it.

[00:40:44] What else would you like to talk about, Mr. Conrad and Iowa?

[00:40:47] I think we covered it.

[00:40:48] You do usually ask a question that I was prepared for because a lot of people usually don't know what to say.

[00:40:54] Oh, what is it?

[00:40:56] So you usually say, is there anything or is there a question that you haven't asked that you wish would be asked?

[00:41:04] It's funny enough, you actually asked it to me earlier.

[00:41:07] But I was just going to say the question is, what is one thing if any someone could do to stop you from attempting?

[00:41:15] And I think that's a really good question because I think you'll find that more often than not it will be something as simple as maybe a hug.

[00:41:22] I will ask that more often.

[00:41:24] Yeah, I think you'll find it's pretty simple.

[00:41:28] It's one of those ones, sure, simple but not always simple.

[00:41:31] No.

[00:41:32] So what else would you like to share, Conrad, in Iowa?

[00:41:36] I just want to say thank you for making this podcast.

[00:41:39] It's really hard to find someone to talk to about this stuff so openly without the fear of something happening.

[00:41:47] I think you're helping a lot of people and I just really appreciate it.

[00:41:51] Thanks, man.

[00:41:52] I appreciate that.

[00:41:53] To sound a little corny here, but there's no podcast without people like you hearing it and then reaching out.

[00:41:58] I would be talking to nobody.

[00:42:00] I always make this option available if someone has said, I'm checking out sometime soon.

[00:42:05] I can bump it up if you want it to be around for you to hear.

[00:42:09] If you don't care and you're actually not going to be here or there's a chance you won't.

[00:42:14] Yeah, I'll let you know.

[00:42:15] It's a little weird, I know, but…

[00:42:17] No, no, no, I understand.

[00:42:19] What does the rest of your evening look like before we go back to our lives here?

[00:42:23] I'm just going to go home.

[00:42:24] I'm going to play some more games.

[00:42:27] I'm going to probably watch, I think I've been into watching Saw.

[00:42:31] Just going to wind down and go to bed and get ready for work tomorrow.

[00:42:35] You leave that gun in your car?

[00:42:36] Are you going to take it in?

[00:42:37] I'm going to leave it in the car because I'm staying at my mom's.

[00:42:40] All right, man.

[00:42:41] Thanks again.

[00:42:42] I really do appreciate it.

[00:42:43] No, thank you.

[00:42:44] I'm so glad I could talk.

[00:42:46] Cool, Conrad.

[00:42:47] Thanks, man.

[00:42:48] Hope your night is decent.

[00:42:49] Yeah, have a good one.

[00:42:50] Bye.

[00:42:51] Take care.

[00:42:53] As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support.

[00:42:56] Special thanks to Conrad in Iowa.

[00:42:59] Thank you, Conrad.

[00:43:00] If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:43:03] Hello at suicidenoted.com or suicidenoted at gmail.com just to be safe.

[00:43:09] You can also find us on Facebook or Twitter slash x at suicidenoted.

[00:43:15] And check out the show notes if you'd like to learn more about the podcast, including our membership.

[00:43:20] And that is all for episode number 214.

[00:43:24] Stay strong.

[00:43:25] Do the best you can.

[00:43:26] I'll talk to you soon.