C in New York

[00:00:00] I don't want to sound like I'm glad that other people are suffering as I am, but like it's good to know that like I'm not the only one alone in this hell. Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted.

[00:00:34] On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories every year around the world. Millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough.

[00:00:45] And when we do talk about it, many of us, including me, we're not very good at it. So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors.

[00:00:55] Now if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out. Hello at suicidenoted.com, on Facebook or Twitter, at Suicide Noted. You can learn about all kinds of other things related to this podcast,

[00:01:09] including ways you can support the podcast so that these conversations can happen so that hopefully more people in more places feel a little less shitty and a little less alone. Check the show notes for that and of course, a rating and or review on Apple or Spotify.

[00:01:23] Of course that helps too. Finally, we're talking about suicide on this podcast. We don't hold back, so please take that into account before you listen or as you listen. But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn. Today I am talking with Cee.

[00:01:36] Cee lives in New York and she is a suicide attempt survivor. Hello Cee. Hi Sean. Where are you? I am in New York. I'm in Long Island currently. What town? Have you heard of Port Jefferson? Yeah, I grew up near there. Oh really?

[00:01:57] Did you go to Stony Brook? I did go to Stony Brook. I just graduated. Congrats. Congrats. Thank you so much. Yeah, I grew up in like Smithtown, Comac, which is in Tufa. Oh my God. So crazy.

[00:02:09] Now I'm guessing and I could be wrong. You didn't grow up there. I did not. Yeah, I did not. I just came here for school and I kind of settled here right now because I like here and I like the people here.

[00:02:22] Yeah, after high school I came here just for school, but then I just got really attached to the people I work with and I met in school. So yeah, I want to get a job here.

[00:02:33] I am currently working, but I want to get a job that makes me enough money. You into the K-pop? Yeah, of course. Who's your favorite K-pop band? K-pop band. Have you heard of SHINee? I haven't heard of any of them.

[00:02:47] Oh really? Okay, so SHINee is basically the generation before BTS. You've heard of BTS, right? No, yeah. Yeah, totally. I feel old these days. Okay, originally from South Korea. How old are you? Oh yes, I am 22. Oh yeah, no, totally old. Old. Yeah.

[00:03:07] Do you have any questions for me? I've listened to a lot of your podcasts and again, thank you for making this. For people like me, I don't want to sound like I'm glad that other people are suffering as I am.

[00:03:23] But it's also good to know that I'm not the only one. I'm not just alone in this hell. Are you in hell? Yeah, life feels like hell. How long, if you know, have you felt that way? I don't think anyone's life is peaceful and flat.

[00:03:43] So I had suicidal thoughts since I was really young. I think as a young child, it's the fear of death. The fear that I'm missing out on something good in the future that kind of held me from doing anything. Right.

[00:04:00] It's just this year I was like, okay, so I waited long enough. I worked hard enough. Nothing's really getting better. And I don't think there's any guarantee in the future that it's going to be better. So I was like, okay, I'm leaving now.

[00:04:15] And this year was the first time I actually acted on my thoughts. So you're 22 and so it sounds like for many years you've been, can we use the word ideating? Thinking about it seriously? Yeah, thinking about it. What stopped you?

[00:04:29] Just like I said, it's the fear of the pain that's going to come from the action. Like in other words, you feeling pain? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like physical pain. I think that's the hugest part, the physical pain that's going to come with it

[00:04:43] and the possibility of failing the attempt and the humiliation coming from that. It's like all the fears of what's going to happen if I actually act upon it. But then when the fear of future just was like overriding the fear of death,

[00:05:00] that's when I actually made an attempt. Yeah, because you're dealing with fear of physical, you're dealing with fear of, like you used the word humiliation. Like if you survive, then what? Or if you succeed, people think things.

[00:05:12] I actually don't know what it's like in Korea with your family, but I'm going to guess that it's probably judged pretty harshly. Yeah, they do. They do. Yeah, like a lot of places. And it's like I grew up in a country where mental health is considered.

[00:05:28] So when people say like, I am not able to do this because I am currently mentally ill, they just think it's like the matter of weakness and strength. But you don't say that to a person that's like suffering from cancer.

[00:05:41] Yeah, and if someone is suffering from cancer and they can't go to work or something, they don't say things like, you're lazy, you're just not hardworking, you just don't want to work. But when people say things like, I'm really mentally not well and I can't go to work,

[00:05:54] they're like, okay, you just don't want to work then. But that's like the difference in perspective. As you've gone through your life and stuff has happened, the hard stuff, do you have people said stuff like that to you? I wouldn't say like people.

[00:06:06] First of all, I didn't really open up to people that much. With my parents, they're like, I mean, you're not the only one who's stressed. Well, everyone is stressed. That's like their reaction. Everyone is stressed. It's not just you.

[00:06:17] They just deal with it, which means you have to as well. Both of your parents? Yeah, pretty much. So yeah, I don't really open up to them. Why would you? Yeah, right. Because if the only thing they're going to tell me is that I'm just being lazy. Right.

[00:06:32] Yeah, I'm just not hardworking and I just don't want to work, then I'm like, okay, then I'm not going to tell you anything. But what do you tell them when you talk to them, if you talk to them? This is similar to what I tell psychiatrists as well,

[00:06:46] because the experiences in the hospital and involuntary hospitalizations taught me, I learned in a hard way what to and what not to say to therapists or psychiatrists in order to prevent future hospitalization. Just giving them the response that they want, not something that's actually in my head.

[00:07:06] So if they ask me, how are you doing in school? And I'm like, oh, I'm doing great. Even if I'm not. It's all about lie, lie, lie. After lying every time, I get to this point,

[00:07:16] I'm like, if I can't really talk to anyone about what's in my head, then what's the point of going to my doctor's appointment and all that? And that's how I started looking on the podcast or TED Talks about people who are very honest about their own experiences

[00:07:34] and who have similar experiences as mine. That's how you found this podcast? Yeah. There's probably some good TED Talks too. I've seen some TED Talks about people who've made multiple attempts in their past.

[00:07:46] And then I'm like, oh my gosh, this person is going to know what it's like to live in hell. That's how I find comfort. It's temporary, but it's better than nothing. Yeah, that's what most people seek out all the time in some way, right?

[00:08:01] You were feeling this way when you were living in Korea for part of that time too, growing up. Yeah, of course. At that time when I was younger, I still had a little bit of hope that I could be happier if I get older

[00:08:15] and become more independent from my parents. Actually, it's my parent, my mom. My dad was always working, so he wasn't really involved in this emotional, verbal, physical abuse. But it was mainly my mom who had really high expectations towards me in terms of academics and some achievements.

[00:08:34] I was like, okay, if I become independent as an adult, get separated from her, there is a chance that I could be happier. But now I am actually independent and I am separated from my parents. The trauma is still there. I have other stressors.

[00:08:48] Got to this point where I'm like, okay, bad things just always happen. What did you study? I studied biochemistry. Very interesting. I don't really know what it means, but it sounds interesting. And you're still on Long Island. Fort Jefferson's a nice little town.

[00:09:02] Now, let's talk about how many times have you tried to take your life? I actually got out of hospital on the 3rd, November 3rd. So that was my fourth attempt. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What's today? Today is November 8th, I believe. How long ago did you reach out?

[00:09:19] I think I got your response a little after I went to the hospital. I just woke up in the ICU. When I reached out to you, it was when I was really feeling suicidal.

[00:09:31] I was trying to make something that I can look forward to, which was being here. And then a few nights after that, I started drinking. You heard of the term, like, licorice, right? Liquid courage. See, I'm very familiar with it, yes.

[00:09:45] Yeah, so I started drinking and then I had my sleeping pills next to me. I was like, you know what, I don't really... I just told you that this is my fourth attempt. My first one was back in April, which is like seven months ago. Right.

[00:09:59] The thought that came into my head that night, the night of the 15th, a little after I reached out to you via email, I was like, okay, so I was supposed to be dead back in April. It's not a big deal if I just die now.

[00:10:11] I was already drinking and then, you know, I overdosed on my sleeping pills. In April, after struggling for many years, and you're about to finish college, back in April, you overdosed liquid courage as well? Yes. I love that you're using that term.

[00:10:24] All right, when is the second attempt? Second attempt was June. When was the third attempt? Third attempt was September. So actually, the term between third and fourth attempt, for hospitalizations, were like two weeks. In April, you try to end your life with pills. You go to the hospital.

[00:10:41] June overdose, go to hospital. September overdose... No, September was not overdose, actually. Because in September, I no longer had any pills that I could overdose on. Because, you know, if you have a history of overdosing to commit suicide, doctors take you off of that medication.

[00:11:00] How did you try? I tried to hang myself. But this is going to sound funny. But hanging yourself is very painful. I mean, I would guess that, yes. It's very painful. And it's like my survival. I wasn't even drinking that day.

[00:11:16] So when you drink, you get kind of like... Not kind of, but you actually get really numb to pain. You're talking to a borderline alcoholic, see? I know these things. Come on. Yeah. The thing is, I wasn't even drinking. I was very sober.

[00:11:33] And then the second the string touched my neck, it was so painful. It's my survival instinct. Even if I want to die, it's my body that's naturally reacting to it. And then I somehow managed to get that thing off my neck. Yeah, I failed.

[00:11:49] I had an appointment with my psychiatrist the day after. I really liked talking to this doctor. We were having a conversation and then I somehow mentioned that I have attempted but failed. And he was like, okay, I'm glad that it failed and I'm glad that you're here.

[00:12:06] But since I know that you were almost about to kill yourself, I am obligated to send you to the hospital to be evaluated. That was September. Just to be clear, same hospital you had just been in the prior month?

[00:12:22] Yeah, the four hospitals, they were all the same hospital. Right, and you had been evaluated each time? Yeah, yeah. I get what he's doing, but I guess you just keep doing the same thing over and over again. I know this is no easy solutions here.

[00:12:32] When you get out in September, not long after that, had you already found the podcast by then or you start looking? That's when I started looking. You listen, you decide to reach out, and at some point after reaching out and are back and forth,

[00:12:45] you try for a fourth time with pills. Yeah. And you're back in the same hospital for a fourth time. Yeah. And you got out last week. On your first, second, and fourth, because I know for the third,

[00:12:58] your doctor sent you there, how did you get to the hospital? Why did you go to the hospital? Okay, so the first attempt, so I overdosed. Yes, I did drink a lot prior to the overdose, but this one was actually planned for the whole month.

[00:13:13] Yeah, I planned the day I'm going to go and then I planned what I'm going to do, of course. Back then, of course, it was my first attempt, so I didn't have any history of overdose.

[00:13:23] So my doctor was able to just prescribe me a month's worth of sedative. So I took 40 with the alcohol, like a lot of alcohol. The thing is, it was my senior year in college, so I was really hard on myself in terms of studying

[00:13:38] to the point where I threw away my bed to not go to sleep. Where did I sleep? I slept on my desk, on the chair. I studied until I passed out. So the thing is, since I didn't have my bed when I was knocked out by the pills,

[00:13:52] I was just sleeping on my chair and I woke up vomiting. I didn't even feel nauseous. It was just coming out of my mouth. Yeah. So I think that's the reason why I didn't end up dying over sleep.

[00:14:06] After throwing up, I went back to sleep because the pills are still in my system. It's still affecting my brain. Just to be clear, when you say you go back to sleep, you went back to sleep on your chair? Yeah. Got it. Sounds comfortable. Yeah.

[00:14:22] And then I was knocked out for like, after that, when I woke up vomiting, it was like 6 a.m. So I was knocked out for another 10 hours, and then I just opened my eyes. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm still not dead yet?

[00:14:36] I was really surprised. I was like, okay, why am I like, okay? Why is my heart still beating? And then I was kind of pissed. I saw my phone right in front of me. My friend was calling me.

[00:14:49] And then I noticed that she was blowing off my phone for the whole entire day. And it was already, you know, I was knocked out for 10 hours. So it was already like 4 p.m. when she was calling me.

[00:15:02] And then she was like, I'm at your door. Open it. And then that's when I noticed that I can't walk. And then I noticed that my vision was like very blurry too. I crawled to open the door for her. And then she just ran into my room.

[00:15:20] And then she saw the empty bottle of pills. She kind of figured out what was going on. And she was like, hey, I'm going to call the ambulance, or you just get into my car and go to the hospital with me.

[00:15:30] Yeah, that was my first hospitalization in my life. Like ever. Hospitalization. Hang on. How long did you stay there? Two weeks. Comfortable? Helpful? No. I mean, like, to be honest, I liked the resident doctor that was responsible for taking care of me in there

[00:15:48] when I got sent to the inpatient unit. So people like the doctors there or social workers, they always ask us, do you still have suicidal thoughts? Like we don't when we are in there because we want to get out of there.

[00:16:01] And I think that's a really weird question to ask. Yeah, because first of all, we give them the answers that they want, not the answers that are really in our head. And we just want to get out of there because we're like locked in.

[00:16:15] It's like asking prisoners, are you ready to go home? No one's going to be like, no, I don't want to go home. I don't want to stay in jail a little longer than I'm supposed to. Does time they spend, the doctors, spend with one patient? Ten minutes?

[00:16:31] Right, because we don't have resources. So they have one doctor instead of five. We have ten rooms instead of fifty. We have not enough ever. So who loses in that situation? There are exceptions, but they're usually for very wealthy people.

[00:16:50] The doctor that I was talking to, I got really lucky. She was really good. She was very compassionate and I really appreciated it. It's just that I have limited, such limited time throughout the day to talk to her. So you're waiting, you're sleeping, you're eating.

[00:17:06] And it's like the same food every single day too. It gets boring and all I think about is just getting out of there. And I just found it as a place that just prolongs my life, not really a place that saves my life.

[00:17:19] So when I left the hospital, I've been in a hospital twice. The last one when I left, I really so clearly remember wanting to get out. I had driven myself there, so we got in my car and there was a few moments of freedom. It felt great.

[00:17:33] And I didn't live that far from the hospital. And I remember before I even got home feeling like really petrified because I thought I'm going to go back to the same little home. Everything's the same. Nothing has changed. Not good. So you get out, you go home.

[00:17:48] Now I have a roommate that found me after my first attempt. Oh. And she's a great friend. And after my first hospitalization, she has been really supportive. She still is. I have great friends and they have nothing to do with me wanting to die.

[00:18:05] When you got back, you moved after school. And in June, try again, you go back for how long to that hospital? It was the second attempt. I was only hospitalized for a week. Same doctor? Yes. The night before my attempt.

[00:18:21] So what drove me to that point, that suicide, really suicidal point, I was crashing really hard from the withdrawal because my doctor, my psychiatrist took me off of that sedative, that medication that I overdosed on.

[00:18:36] And he was putting me on alternatives, but they were not working as well. And the reason why I was getting those medications prescribed was because of panic attacks. And it was very painful. It seems like somebody's just jumping on my heart.

[00:18:51] And I was just so done with it. I was like, why do I have to go through this every day? I didn't really see the hope of it getting better without having that medication again.

[00:19:03] So I was like, okay, I know that he's not going to give it to me again. I also can't promise that I'm not going to overdose again. Right, right, right. This time, I didn't have that sedative, but I had a bunch of sleeping pills prescribed to me

[00:19:18] that are not as lethal. But I just took every single one of them, drank a lot. And then I just took a month's worth of every single one of them. I was just hoping it would have some kind of lethal reaction.

[00:19:34] Again, this friend that found me in my first attempt, she came to my apartment again. Wow. Again, she found those empty bottles under my desk this time. And she saw the empty glass of alcohol that I was drinking. And this time, she just called 911 on me

[00:19:52] instead of just taking me there. Because, of course, I refused to go to the hospital. I was like, no. And I even told her, I was like, I didn't take all these. But she didn't believe me, of course. Yeah, and that's how I was taken to the hospital.

[00:20:04] You got out. Yeah, and then I got out. And then three months later, yeah, I tried to take myself. It's always in my head that I was supposed to be dead back in April. After that, it's much easier to just act upon my thoughts.

[00:20:23] I've already kind of been there, I know. It's not like I'm losing my time. It's more like right now I'm living in an extra time that was given to me. I would think, though, that if you feel that way dating back to April,

[00:20:37] it would be hard to apply for a job, get up every morning and go to your job. Is it hard? Honestly, going to work is not that hard. Because first of all, I don't really hate my job that much currently.

[00:20:50] But what's actually hard is taking care of myself. The reason for going to work for most people is mainly because of money. You need money to pay your bills and all that stuff. Even though I think about dying almost every day,

[00:21:05] this apartment that I'm staying in, I have to pay for that. Yes, I could be dead by tomorrow, but what if I'm not dead by next month? I'd need to pay the rent for that too. I got you, I got you.

[00:21:16] That's the motivation for me to go to work. And it's also kind of like a distraction from having those suicidal thoughts for me. My job is a customer service job. So we have to be very bright and energetic. I see the same customers every day pretty much.

[00:21:33] Most of them are regulars. It's actually really nice talking to them and just seeing them every day. But it gets to the point where I'm like, oh my gosh, I hate this. But that's how all jobs are. A lot of them.

[00:21:47] As we've discussed, you had your fourth suicidal attempt. That was also with pills. Yes, and this time it was almost fatal. I was kind of mad. I was like, oh my gosh, I was almost there.

[00:21:59] So I was in ICU and then I got transferred to a regular medical floor. And then when I was medically cleared, then I was transferred to the psychiatry unit. So if one of the doctors had asked you while you were being wheeled into that hospital,

[00:22:14] before we try to save your life, do you want us to try to save your life? What would you have said? Oh no, of course. For me, when I woke up every time during my attempt, I was mad. Very mad. I failed again. I'm still here.

[00:22:29] I tried to make something that I can look forward to again. That's why I reached out again. I was like, maybe it's a good opportunity for me to talk to someone that's going to say better things than, hey, you need to go seek a mental health professional.

[00:22:47] You're aware already that that's an option? Mm hmm. It's what makes it hard for me to reach out to people, especially my roommate is my best friend. There's no doubt that she cares about me and she wants the best for me.

[00:23:00] When I share these thoughts, her conclusion is always like, hey, go find a psychiatrist. I mean, not go find a therapist. You need to find a better one or something like that. And I'm like, I'm not going to search every single therapist in Long Island. Exactly.

[00:23:14] This is the ludicrous argument people make. It pisses me off. There's a gazillion fucking therapists. Should I spend the rest of my life just looking like what's happening in between that time? Yeah, exactly. My fucking God. Yeah.

[00:23:27] And then we kind of get into conflict, a little bit of argument. She's like, are you really trying hard enough? I wouldn't be friends with her. You're a better person than I am. No, I'm serious. I can't deal. Yeah.

[00:23:40] And then she's like, hey, if you don't help yourself, then no one can help you. And I'm like, I know. Yeah. And that's why I wanted to die. And you freaking ruined my plan every single time. Wow.

[00:23:49] So, yeah, it's like the conversation gets to this kind of pointless point. So I'm like, okay, who am I supposed to talk to? Because if I talk to my psychiatrist about wanting to kill myself, then of course he's going to send me back to hospital.

[00:24:05] And the past involuntary hospitalizations taught me what to and what not to say. And this is the thing that I don't hear talked about enough.

[00:24:16] I'm sure it's talked about is what I mean when I say there's nowhere to go to talk about it, because people don't get what I'm saying. They say, well, no, you could talk to a therapist. You're not understanding what I'm saying. Yeah, exactly.

[00:24:27] If you go to a therapist and you say certain things, I'm not blaming them. They're within a larger system that if they want to keep their jobs, they have to do certain things. There becomes fewer and fewer people to talk to.

[00:24:39] Like your roommate who you have a good relationship with, but you know she's going to say pick yourself up. She's going to say try harder. She's going to say see if that's all right.

[00:24:48] You know that naturally, whether you have mental illness or not, whatever you're dealing with, natural, logical, understandable, reasonable response. That would be I'm not going to engage with them. Certainly not about this stuff. So you have fewer people to talk to and fewer people to talk to.

[00:25:05] That's how it is for so many people. It's a problem. And it's getting harder to be honest and harder to reach out for help. And so people suffer and they die. I'm the crazy one. So why not? Then you just stop talking.

[00:25:20] Once in a while, you get laid and you find a podcast. We'll be done talking at some point and then what?

[00:25:24] Yeah, and that's why I needed someone that's going to say better things than go find a therapist or who's actually going to relate to this with their personal experience. I think you need to go through it.

[00:25:37] Helps to go through something similar, but you don't need to go through this to have empathy. And I think it's easier for people to just like come up with a solution and kind of like have judgment if they didn't really suffer through the same thing.

[00:25:49] I think it's like empathy comes from personal experience for sure. So just to be clear, see if you got pregnant and you were in pain, I couldn't be empathetic because I haven't been pregnant. People can do better.

[00:26:01] Yes, you probably don't know the pain, but you can be more compassionate. I think people just try to come up with a solution and then they get mad at us if we don't listen to their solutions or we don't take that into account or something like that.

[00:26:19] But the solutions that they come up with, we know that those are solutions. It's not like we're doing a math problem where x is something, y equals something. Right. I mean, it's absurd. Really? We know those are solutions, but those solutions are not the best solutions for us.

[00:26:37] And that's why I'm telling you these things. Most of the time we know them. Most of the times we've tried them. We're adults. There's reasons we might not be trying them. And when you offer particularly unsolicited advice or solutions, you're really fucking insulting.

[00:26:53] And the reason you're treating me like a three year old, probably if we're going to get really honest is that's what you think of me. Yeah, exactly. I don't want you to fix things for me. I really don't expect you to.

[00:27:04] But see, you don't have a say in the matter. What do you know? That's what they think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. And kind of get the guilt off their shoulder. I don't know if you're enjoying this as much as I am, but I like talking about this.

[00:27:16] Yeah, me too. It's not an easy topic to talk about, even with psychiatrists, of course. What I'm saying is I really like being mean to people. That's a problem. Excuse me for a second. I don't think I like being mean. It's just I'm so tired of this rhetoric.

[00:27:33] It's garbage. It's harmful. And I don't think I'm the only one talking about it. Certainly, I'm not. But please, got to be a little stubborn here. There's no middle ground. You suck at this. Get better. Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:46] Well, just fucking say I don't want to get better and I know I'm doing harm and walk away. I'd respect that more. Mm hmm. Yeah. The conversation gets, yeah, it gets to that point, exactly to the point where you just mentioned.

[00:27:57] And, you know, I go like, hey, like, do you think I don't know? I knew that you were going to just sit there and blame me for not trying harder and not finding a therapist. What you needed, you weren't getting. You're already struggling. It's already hard.

[00:28:10] Things are already difficult. Now you're using your energy to, like, try to explain to someone how they're not helping you. That's where your energy is going. You're already fucking tired. Now it's got to go to you.

[00:28:22] And I'm like trying to convince you that when you tell me to do this, that and the other thing, or you're giving me these absurd things like pull yourself up by your bush. It's much easier for me to just stop the conversation. This is tiring. Exactly.

[00:28:35] It's becoming about you. The conversation just becomes something like that we never wanted, something that we probably like shouldn't have had. And then, you know, I regret like even talking to them about it. I would just be like, I can't, I can't have a relationship with you.

[00:28:49] That's a big problem. As you might imagine, you're better at that. Sounds like at least with one person. Now, let me ask you this question. You got out for the fourth time recently. At some point, does the hospital say you need long-term care? Oh, yes, of course.

[00:29:02] The attending physician that was taking care of me actually, she was like, you heard of the term pilgrim? The long-term hospitalization, some kind of like community or people who need like long-term care and you never know when you're going to get out.

[00:29:18] So it's kind of like the jail for people who are mentally ill. And she was like, hey, like I'm seriously considering sending you there. And I was like, why? While I was hospitalized this time for the two weeks, I was like doing my hardest to

[00:29:34] look like I'm doing so much better. And I have like so much passion towards my life because I really wanted to avoid that hospitalization. First of all, I don't know when I'm going to get out once I go there.

[00:29:45] What's the point of being alive if you're going to be locked in somewhere like that? It's not the quantity that matters. It's the quality. And I feel like this is one of the problems when it comes to mental health.

[00:29:58] To a stage four cancer patient, you don't inject them something if they refuse treatment. But when it comes to suicide attempts, depression, the physicians have more power over your body and your life just because you're labeled as mentally ill or suicidal. That's what really drove me crazy. Yeah.

[00:30:21] I'm like, okay, so am I not considered a human because I'm mentally ill? Well, do you want a real answer to that or do you want a fake answer? I think you're very human, but you know how some people think they won't tell you that that is true.

[00:30:33] That is how they feel. And because the only way to justify the way they operate in the world with the decisions they make are the words that come out of their mouths.

[00:30:41] The only way to justify that is if they think you're either not human or not entirely human. You can't do those things and think someone's human. It doesn't add up, period. I'm on a roll today, C. Yeah.

[00:30:53] That's what really drove me crazy when I was in the hospital and when I was told that I'm just going to get transferred against my will to the psych unit. Again, let's be clear what C just said.

[00:31:06] Whether she was crazy or not going in, what drove her crazy was the place itself. Yeah. I remember the nursing assistants, they open our doors while we are asleep every 15 minutes just to check if we are all in the room.

[00:31:22] And I'm like, first of all, we don't even have windows in there. Like, where do you think I'm going to go? Yeah. Every time they slam the door, it wakes me up and it's so hard to sleep in there too.

[00:31:32] And then doctors ask me every day in the morning, they're like, oh, did you sleep well last night? I'm like, no. Right. You're not. Sleep isn't important. I know your roommate knows about all of your attempts.

[00:31:44] Other than her, and I don't mean anybody in medicine, the medical field. Does anybody else know about them? Yes. There is my other friend who I'm pretty close to. She's not my roommate. She doesn't live with me, but she is also my coworker.

[00:32:01] She was also told about my hospitalization and she visited me too when I was in the hospital. Yeah. And my roommate's boyfriend, he knows because he's always with her. How many people know that we're talking right now at 9 p.m.? No one. You're 22. Mm-hmm. April, June, September, October.

[00:32:23] Are you going to try again this year? Next year? I mean, I think that's a good question, actually. I really don't know. Because when I got out of the hospital in April, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm not coming back here again.

[00:32:36] I'm not going to make another attempt anytime soon. But then it happened in June and then in September. And then after September, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm not going back there again. I'm so done.

[00:32:48] I really believed my attempt in October was going to be my last one, and it wasn't. So I don't know if I'm going to make another attempt anytime soon. So far, nothing super terrible happened, thankfully, not to jinx myself. Which is good.

[00:33:07] But the thought is, I am a person who has been dealing with chronic suicidal ideation. If I were to die tomorrow, I don't think I'll be so sad or upset about anything.

[00:33:20] If somebody just tells me, somebody above, who can predict the future, tells me that I'm going to be dead in two hours or something. I don't think I'm going to be so upset about it, if that makes sense.

[00:33:31] Well, if you've heard the podcast, you might have heard the pink and purple pill question. Because given what you shared earlier about the fear of hurting people or getting hurt in the act of trying to end your life.

[00:33:41] If tonight I gave you a pill, you go to sleep, you're not in pain, and everybody else, and you die, and no one thinks it's a suicide, you just unfortunately died in your sleep. Would you take the pill? Like tonight? I'll give you till tomorrow also. Okay.

[00:33:56] If I have the pill in my hand, I think I'll make sure to take care of my bank account and stuff like that. Because I do have a beneficiary, which is my sister. Let's make this simpler. It's all taken care of.

[00:34:10] Yeah, and take care of those things, and then probably consider taking the pill. The whole point of the question is, I really just want to gauge. Do you want out? And if no pain is guaranteed, then I think that's going to be like, oh my gosh, finally.

[00:34:27] In fact, I'll even throw in a great dream before you fade off forever. I also have mixed feelings when it comes to suicide.

[00:34:36] If my loved one were to want to die, it's kind of ironic that I think I would be really sad, and I would be really worried, and I would want to stop them.

[00:34:48] But the thing is, I do get really mad when someone's trying to hold me hostage in this world against my will. Yeah, I think that's why it's hard to put myself in someone else's shoe. Do either of your parents know about any of this? My parents know.

[00:35:04] They do know that I visit a psychiatrist, but they just think it's because of anxiety. Surprisingly, they weren't being too judgmental about it. But that's all they know. I don't know what their response is going to be. I don't really even want to think about it.

[00:35:21] If they somehow find out that I made four attempts so far, or even just one attempt, I feel like they're going to be like, what did we not do for you that made you want to not be in this world?

[00:35:35] Did you ever receive a diagnosis that you think is correct? Yeah, so I am diagnosed with panic disorder and major depressive disorder and generalized anxiety disorder, which I think is associated with the panic disorder because they are both anxiety disorders.

[00:35:53] I hear about people dying all the time in media and everywhere. And I was actually thinking the other day, I was like, why is it so hard for me to die when I'm hearing about all these people dying in this world?

[00:36:05] When is it going to be my turn? Did you have an answer to that question or no? Oh, no, of course not. My friends and doctors in the hospital that I talked to, they say things like, don't you think there's a reason that you're still alive?

[00:36:21] Don't you think you were meant to be in this world? And I don't know. Whenever they say that, I'm like, well, I don't know, I guess. Korea is a predominantly Christian country? It's mostly either Catholic or Christian. You grew up that way? So my mom is actually Christian.

[00:36:39] Yeah, we were, my sister and I were both kind of forced to go to church. So we never had like freedom to choose our religion or anything. Yeah, I'm actually an atheist. Like, I don't really believe in God or any kind of high power.

[00:36:54] I don't really believe in anything that I cannot physically see, if that makes sense. And sister the same way? My sister, I think so. Like, all I know is that she's not religious. Is she in Korea? My sister, no.

[00:37:07] She also goes to the university that I went to. Oh, really? Yeah. So she's younger. She's four years younger than me. So she actually just went to college and I just graduated. Same school? Yeah, same school. Stony Brook? Yeah. Wait, do you talk to your sister much?

[00:37:23] Like, she's like a person that I love the most in this world. Yeah, I do have a really good relationship with her. And since we grew up by, you know, same parents, she's the one who can relate to me the most, I think.

[00:37:37] When it comes to like childhood trauma and all that. I think it's going to be the case for almost everyone. If you're an older sibling, like you don't really want to talk to your younger sibling about like how you wanted to kill yourself.

[00:37:51] She knows that I visit psychiatrists. Like, she knows about my diagnosis. She doesn't know the severity of it. For this hospitalization, the overdose, I made it sound like it was an accident. So I don't think she knows. Or maybe she could be pretending not to know.

[00:38:07] Does anything help you feel better? This doesn't, you know, like stay for long. But being able to keep telling myself that, oh, like, you're not the only one going through this. There are people who understand this.

[00:38:19] And like right now, like I really am happy that I'm able to talk to you today. Me too. Like I really need to like kind of like let it out instead of having to worry about, oh my gosh.

[00:38:30] But what if this person like just calls 911 on me and track down my location or something like that? Yeah, because like the second, after my second attempt, like when the 911 came to my house, they literally handcuffed me for being suicidal.

[00:38:45] And they like restrained me on this like horrifying bed. You know what I'm talking about, right? And then I was lying down with my arms on my back. It was hurting a lot. Yeah. And then I was like, what am I getting this kind of treatment for?

[00:39:00] Like being like I wasn't trying to like kill anyone, first of all. Great question. And the fact that they just like broke into my house after my friend like called 911. How is that legal? Like how is that okay? That's a great question. How is that legal?

[00:39:14] And it goes back to, oh, I don't know if it is. I assume it is. But like once the S word comes up, I feel like they can just do anything and get away with it. Anything.

[00:39:22] Break into your house, push you down, punch you in the face, handcuffs, treat you like shit. And it's okay? Yeah, exactly. And I was like, what? Yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, the second hospitalization was actually like the most traumatic one.

[00:39:36] And I was like really upset at my friend about this. But, you know, like her response is like, hey, like I genuinely don't want you to die. Like what do you think I could have done at that point? Yeah, right. You know, to some extent she's right.

[00:39:49] She is. It's like it's not her fault that the police officers were acting that way to me. They should have known better way to handle mentally ill people.

[00:40:01] Yeah, that's when I noticed that also like going back to like how people have more power over our life and our body when it comes to mental health. Yeah. You can just like label someone as mentally ill and then you're just like you have more authority over them.

[00:40:17] And in other contexts, you would be criminally punished and arguably should be. And that's not an understatement or that's not an overstatement. That's how I feel. Your behavior is wrong and bad and immoral and unethical and not okay.

[00:40:33] When I was in the hospital, when I was like full of grudge towards them, I was like actually thinking about like, should I sue them?

[00:40:39] And then I was like, wait, like the money that I'm going to spend on the lawsuit is going to be like, of course, I'm like labeled as quote unquote mentally ill. It's going to be so much easier for them to get out of it. 100%.

[00:40:52] So I was like, you know what? Like, I'm not going to waste my time and energy for this. Did you have any thoughts like I had where you you wanted to kill anybody? No, never. Yeah. I just like I don't blame you though.

[00:41:03] Like I didn't want to kill anybody, but I became more suicidal after that hospitalization. I was like, okay, like this gives me more reason to die. But see, if you would just listen to us and do what we say, we would help you. Yeah.

[00:41:16] And they're like they and then, you know, they blame us for being like for making everything difficult by resisting being handcuffed, you know? And like after like that hospitalization, I noticed that my whole wrist was like bruised and then they held me really, like really tight too.

[00:41:33] And those are police officer. I barely weighed like 100 pounds and those police officers, they were like at least like 200 pounds each one of them. Three of them just like trying to get me. Yeah, it was horrifying. Terrifying too. Fucking wish that they could be sued.

[00:41:50] Those people sometimes who like want that kind of power who becomes police officers. Well, that's a whole other conversation, but I won't disagree. Yes, for sure. And I'm from Long Island. I know the type. I know those guys. So I'll leave it at that.

[00:42:04] Are there any myths or misconceptions about any of the stuff we've talked about or any of this stuff at all that you want to discuss or dispel? When people have loved ones that are chronically suicidal, they just try to provide them with solution.

[00:42:21] But I think it's very important not to just like jump to like give them solution. That's really not what they want or what they're even expecting from you. And they know that there is no instant fix to this problem.

[00:42:36] Like you're not just going to become like not suicidal within a day. And we know that too. We know that. And this is what my roommate also likes to lecture me on. Like, hey, like this is life. There's no instant fix.

[00:42:50] I wish there was something like something like that. She says things like that. I'm like, do you think I don't know? If I want an instant pleasure, I would be into like gambling or some kind of like illegal drugs like heroin.

[00:43:03] But I'm not because that's not what I want. Right. You're struggling. Yeah. You could do other things that would be more pleasurable, which is proof that you're trying. It's just weird. The whole thing is fucking weird. I don't want to go over it. It's just amazing to me.

[00:43:19] And then at the end, they're like, okay, I don't know what else to tell you. And I'm like, all right. This is why I didn't want to tell you anything in the first place. I've had people, particularly a little older generation. We didn't learn this. I don't know.

[00:43:31] I don't know anything about this. We didn't learn how to talk like this. I don't know. But I get it. That makes it hard.

[00:43:36] You could learn most people unless you have like a major, I don't know, neurological or some of that kind of condition that prevents you from learning, which is a real thing sometimes. Yeah. You can learn. You learn other things. It's what you prioritize.

[00:43:49] You wanted to learn how to, I don't know, play pickleball. You figured it out. You wanted to learn, I don't know, how to play guitar. You wanted to learn how to figure out how to do taxes. You figured it out.

[00:43:59] Man, I'm more bitter to them than I usually am, but I'm glad. I like it. It feels good for me to get it out. I got to get it out. Right. Like you were kind of like my last resort of like getting it out.

[00:44:12] So wait, what happens when we get off the zoom call here and tonight and tomorrow and the next day? If I'm your last resort.

[00:44:18] I don't think I'm going to like, you know, like really talk about this with like another person that that's what I meant by like last resort. Yeah. And like because I've been having just like having these in my mind like this whole time and just bottling it up.

[00:44:32] Yeah. I was never this comfortable like to talk about this topic. Yeah. I'm feeling like a lot like more comfortable than before for sure. I think it's going to like kind of push me forward.

[00:44:43] And since I'm feeling better, I don't think I'm going to like think about making another attempt anytime soon. It comes and goes like the thought when I'm feeling, you know, like shitty. My brain just tells me like, OK, well, it comes to worse.

[00:44:56] I'm just going to kill myself. Yeah, I get it. That's how I've been like spending my nights these days when I couldn't fall asleep. I just like listen to your podcast. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I've been there. Oh, my gosh. Like, I know what they're talking about.

[00:45:09] Oh, my God. I'm not alone. You sound so American when you say, oh, my God. Country girl from Korea sounding all American. You know what? I actually got my citizenship last year, so I actually am American. Congratulations. How does that work? How did you get that? The citizenship?

[00:45:28] So my dad actually works here. He's an engineer. We were able to get the green card. And I think several years after getting the green card, you are qualified to take the citizenship test. And if you pass the exam, then that's when you become a citizen.

[00:45:45] Suicide rate is pretty high in South Korea. Yeah, yeah, it is, especially among like teenagers and 20s. And we hear about suicides a lot, especially, you know, the height of the buildings. In the United States, like, you know, schools are usually just like up to like second floor

[00:46:02] as far as I know. I mean, in some cities it's different, but sure. Oh, yeah, right. I used to live in like 11th floor when I was in South Korea. And then, yeah, whenever I was getting suicidal and like I just looked down, there was a lot

[00:46:16] of times I wish I just could like throw myself outside. But, you know, I was young, I was petrified of death back then. And then I still kind of like had hope that future is going to be better if I survive.

[00:46:31] So I think that's also what kind of like pushed me off the edge. I'm like, because I was always telling myself, if I survive this, it's going to be better. Okay, but if this is over, I'm going to be better.

[00:46:42] Like I'm going to get a better place or things will be much better and less painful. But then we just learned that bad things just happen all the time. Bad things always happen. There are always things that drive us crazy.

[00:46:56] That seems like it's not going to get fixed. Well, let me ask you one last question. You said earlier that one of the things you make these small goals or small things to look forward to is what you see. This is one of them.

[00:47:07] Do you have anything else lined up? Maybe tomorrow, next week, like a little thing or a big thing to look forward to? That's a really good question. Actually, I was thinking about that today too.

[00:47:17] I was like, okay, so I have this meeting, like Zoom meeting to go to. What should I plan for tomorrow? My sister didn't get her driver's license yet. I just wrote that down on the list. I was like, okay, until I see my sister getting her license.

[00:47:33] To be realistic, once I'm dead, my car is going to become hers. I need to see her getting the license so I know that she's going to be able to drive if I'm not around anymore. Well, you are a good big sister. That is clear. It's 930.

[00:47:49] What are you going to do before you sleep? I actually didn't listen to, due to the hospitalization, of course, I didn't listen to the last three weeks of podcasts. Oh, well, I hope you listen and I hope you like them, if it helps.

[00:48:02] And I hope you enjoy my Suffolk County or continue to, whatever that looks like. It's where I'm from. Wishing you good things. Me too. I really appreciate this. Thanks for talking to me. Thank you. Bye-bye. As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support.

[00:48:23] Special thanks to C in New York, my old stomping grounds, Suffolk County, Long Island. Thank you, C. If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out. Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or Twitter at Suicide Noted.

[00:48:38] Check the show notes to learn a whole lot more about this podcast. And rate and review, please, Suicide Noted in Apple or Spotify. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And that is all for episode number 189. Stay strong. Do the best you can. I will talk to you soon.