Brin in Utah

[00:00:00] I'm trying not to. I mean, the election, knowing that their big platform is hating trans people, my medication, what I've already been through with violence. I just don't know if they have the energy to make it four years through that. It's getting worse. I'm gonna try to get as far as I can, but I don't know.

[00:00:41] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough. And when we do talk about it, many of us, we're not very good at it.

[00:00:59] So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors in large part to help more people in more places hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone.

[00:01:12] If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out. Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or X at Suicide Noted.

[00:01:20] You can check the show notes to learn more about this podcast, including our membership, the Noted Network trainings and services.

[00:01:27] They include podcast training, personal story coaching, as well as a private audio project.

[00:01:33] So if you're curious, have a look.

[00:01:35] Finally, we are talking about suicide on this podcast and I don't hold back.

[00:01:39] We don't hold back.

[00:01:40] So please take that into account before you listen or as you listen.

[00:01:43] But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn.

[00:01:46] Today, I am talking with Bryn.

[00:01:47] Bryn lives in Utah and she is a suicide attempt survivor.

[00:01:54] So Bryn.

[00:01:55] Mm-hmm.

[00:01:56] Utah.

[00:01:57] Yup.

[00:01:57] Utah.

[00:01:58] Is a state known for the following things.

[00:02:01] At least from what I've heard.

[00:02:03] It's a very limited perspective, very East Coast perspective, perhaps.

[00:02:07] Beautiful, beautiful mountains and stunning sun and all that.

[00:02:11] Can't argue with that.

[00:02:13] It is very pretty.

[00:02:14] Mormons.

[00:02:15] A lot of them.

[00:02:16] Yeah, it's pretty overwhelming.

[00:02:18] Gonna take a guess and then I'm gonna stop talking here.

[00:02:20] You were Mormon.

[00:02:23] Yes, I was for a good number of years, unfortunately.

[00:02:27] Definitely.

[00:02:28] So here we are.

[00:02:29] We're talking about a lot of stuff centered on suicide.

[00:02:33] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:34] So how is it that we found each other?

[00:02:35] I know you reached out.

[00:02:36] I know we emailed back and forth a little bit.

[00:02:38] How is it that you find a podcast?

[00:02:41] Like this in the first place and then reach out.

[00:02:44] Yeah.

[00:02:44] I really love podcasts.

[00:02:46] I listen to them all the time.

[00:02:47] Playing video games, doing crafties, eating everything.

[00:02:50] I always have something playing in my ear and obviously it's a suicide podcast.

[00:02:54] So I was going through a bit of a rough time and I wanted to either find something that would

[00:02:58] push me over the edge of despair or give me a little bit of hope.

[00:03:01] So I looked up suicide while searching for other like general psychology and like, oh,

[00:03:08] how do you go through the day wanting to off yourself?

[00:03:12] And yours was one of the first results.

[00:03:14] So I queued up that with a couple others.

[00:03:16] And once I started listening to the first couple episodes, I'm like, okay, I love this.

[00:03:20] You know, a lot of the podcasts you find about suicide are very much a like a top down

[00:03:25] perspective on it.

[00:03:26] You don't really hear much about the actual people unless it's filtered through this.

[00:03:29] It's everything's going to get better.

[00:03:31] Everything's fine.

[00:03:32] And having that, everything's happy filter and just having the raw words is, it's really

[00:03:37] nice.

[00:03:38] And now you're talking and other people will hear you at one point, probably in the next

[00:03:42] month or two.

[00:03:42] I'm a bit nervous about that.

[00:03:44] I'm nervous about people's response.

[00:03:46] I mean, I guess I won't really be a response.

[00:03:47] It's kind of a one-sided and less reviews, but doing it anyway.

[00:03:51] So who cares?

[00:03:52] Yeah.

[00:03:52] I appreciate your, uh, what's the word courage or?

[00:03:55] Oh, thank you.

[00:03:56] So given that, especially though, when you're hearing it and you sounds like you listen to

[00:03:59] it for a while, what compels you to reach out?

[00:04:03] I honestly don't really know.

[00:04:05] Like it wasn't one thing.

[00:04:06] It was just hearing everyone else sharing.

[00:04:07] I kind of wanted to be a part of it.

[00:04:09] Even if it's like just on a podcast that people might not find, it's nice to know that my voice

[00:04:14] won't entirely disappear.

[00:04:17] Things go badly.

[00:04:18] Like my story is not just going to stop off the face of the planet and be relegated to

[00:04:23] a journal, which might be thrown in the dump.

[00:04:27] Internet's kind of immortal.

[00:04:28] My voice would be sort of mortal as well.

[00:04:31] I don't know.

[00:04:31] It's kind of weird.

[00:04:32] You said that you started looking for this and then you, when you were looking for it,

[00:04:36] you were looking for something or things on specifically with podcasts that would either

[00:04:39] give you hope or something about the brink.

[00:04:42] Essentially, it sounded like you were looking for either ideas or ways to end your life or maybe

[00:04:46] give you some hope to not end your life.

[00:04:47] Is that accurate?

[00:04:48] Yeah.

[00:04:49] Not really like methods, but like encouragement, I guess.

[00:04:53] When was that?

[00:04:54] October-ish.

[00:04:55] Yeah.

[00:04:55] Something to keep me here or someone else who kind of rephrased my own reasons in a way

[00:05:02] that was like, okay, we good.

[00:05:04] Let's do this.

[00:05:06] What did you find?

[00:05:08] Both.

[00:05:08] I think that was the best part is a bit of both.

[00:05:12] And it's just kind of been fascinating to hear both arguments.

[00:05:15] It's like, you'll find some people who just come out on the other end and that's really

[00:05:20] inspiring to hear.

[00:05:21] And it lifts the spirits up and you find people who are in the depths and it's like also kind

[00:05:26] of inspiring.

[00:05:27] You get that relation, that community, the comfort of someone else understanding as well.

[00:05:31] I know one thing, and this is common with every guest I've ever had is you didn't decide

[00:05:36] to, you didn't die.

[00:05:38] Nope, not dead.

[00:05:39] Do you have an attempt?

[00:05:40] Six.

[00:05:41] Yeah.

[00:05:41] Six.

[00:05:42] Okay.

[00:05:42] So hang on a second.

[00:05:44] How old are you?

[00:05:44] 21.

[00:05:45] Okay.

[00:05:46] 21 year old, former Mormon.

[00:05:48] Very cool.

[00:05:49] And colorful hair.

[00:05:51] Yeah.

[00:05:51] Thank you.

[00:05:52] Are you in the big city or small city in Utah?

[00:05:55] Medium, smaller.

[00:05:57] Okay.

[00:05:57] So how many people are walking around with hair like that?

[00:05:59] Very little, like zero.

[00:06:01] It's, I get lots of stares and it's kind of fun.

[00:06:05] Yeah.

[00:06:05] I've very much been kind of forced to show it or blow it.

[00:06:10] That sounds weird.

[00:06:11] So you, have you been able to find it when a growing up kid teenager today, at least one

[00:06:17] or two other people who have the metaphorical purple hair?

[00:06:20] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:20] I've been very lucky to find a few people.

[00:06:23] Mm.

[00:06:24] Eccentric like that.

[00:06:25] It's fun.

[00:06:25] You all want to get the fuck out of there, don't you?

[00:06:28] I want to go anywhere else.

[00:06:29] Yeah.

[00:06:30] Moving's kind of hard.

[00:06:32] Expensive group of friends here.

[00:06:33] So I was like, oh, want to leave?

[00:06:35] If I would go, probably Colorado or maybe Oregon.

[00:06:40] What's your first attempt?

[00:06:42] What's your last attempt?

[00:06:43] And then we're going to dance with that stuff.

[00:06:45] First attempt was when I was 13.

[00:06:47] And the last one was this year in January.

[00:06:51] So 21.

[00:06:52] And so you had, you had six.

[00:06:53] Are they clustered or are they kind of like every year or so?

[00:06:57] Kind of clustered.

[00:06:58] There was like a good space between, because the second one was at 16.

[00:07:01] And then after that, it was like every year or every two years or something within there.

[00:07:06] Six attempts.

[00:07:07] Same method?

[00:07:08] No.

[00:07:09] I was testing things out.

[00:07:11] Of those six attempts, as you speak right now, because that's all we got, right?

[00:07:14] Mm-hmm.

[00:07:15] Did you want to die?

[00:07:17] Yes, very much.

[00:07:19] As we talk right now, early December 2024, do you want to die?

[00:07:24] Yes.

[00:07:25] Yeah.

[00:07:25] Are you still experimenting with methods, even if it's just kind of exploring in your mind?

[00:07:30] Yeah, definitely.

[00:07:32] Starting at age zero, starting off strong.

[00:07:35] When I was an infant, we were not very well off.

[00:07:39] So my parents left me at home with my cousin.

[00:07:41] And that's actually when the abuse started.

[00:07:44] In my mom's words, he would beat the ever-living shit out of me.

[00:07:47] So he'd go over with my aunt.

[00:07:49] She thought it was funny.

[00:07:50] He'd punch me, kick me, pull my hair, throw me around.

[00:07:54] That's when it started.

[00:07:55] And then she came back, stopped that.

[00:07:58] But it didn't really get better.

[00:08:00] Because once my younger brother was born, I have three siblings, so four, including me.

[00:08:05] My mother's mental health wasn't always great, but it took a pretty bad turn.

[00:08:09] And that fell on me to help her.

[00:08:12] So I kind of became her mini therapist and everything else.

[00:08:15] Several times I remember talking her out of suicide or picking the lock on a door to go in and try to stop her from being sad or whatever.

[00:08:23] In my dad's words, he was afraid that he'd come home and find that she'd murdered all of us and then killed herself.

[00:08:29] So that's kind of the environment.

[00:08:31] Absent father, a mother who wasn't fit, and I took on the role of parent for the family as well as my mother's.

[00:08:38] That was pretty big, and she grew pretty attached to me, which led to kind of a weird relationship between us.

[00:08:44] It's kind of hard to tell because the memories are pretty fragmented.

[00:08:47] Just obviously trauma, and at a young age, it creates some memory issues.

[00:08:51] I remember she'd kiss me and bite my ear.

[00:08:55] Generally inappropriate behavior between a mother and a four-year-old child.

[00:09:00] And I can't really remember, but my body has the feelings, and there are times when I do get a clear image or sensations.

[00:09:08] I'm pretty sure there was a rape that occurred between us, and that hurts and scares me.

[00:09:13] So I'm getting it out of the way first, obviously.

[00:09:15] That didn't stop until I was 19, started transitioning.

[00:09:18] It didn't stop, like that kind of abuse?

[00:09:20] Yeah, I mean, the more kissy and aggressively sexual behavior didn't stop, but comments on my body, groping.

[00:09:29] She loved to just slap and then grope my ass a lot, to the point where I began to muscle memory block her from behind without even realizing.

[00:09:38] All the time, every day, weird things like, hey, does this look good on me?

[00:09:42] And does this bra look like weird stuff like that.

[00:09:44] And transitioning, that all stopped.

[00:09:46] So that's where the more sexual aspects of the use stops with her.

[00:09:51] So now we're taking a leap back.

[00:09:53] Hang on.

[00:09:54] So when you were 19, you started to transition?

[00:09:56] Yes.

[00:09:57] And where are you in that process?

[00:09:59] I guess fully transitioned as much as I can be.

[00:10:02] I'm feeling pretty good.

[00:10:03] I've been on medical stuff to correct hormones for three years now, and it's been going great.

[00:10:11] So everyone in my life knows me as a woman and I'm happy with it.

[00:10:15] It's great.

[00:10:16] Let's go back to 13.

[00:10:18] When do you start really thinking about wanting to end your life?

[00:10:20] Around nine or 10, single digits.

[00:10:23] It had been, oh, I just can't wait to get out of this house.

[00:10:26] So I just can't wait to stop this.

[00:10:29] Or then it got worse to like, I wish I was run over by a car or my dad ended up beating me to death.

[00:10:36] So we got consequences.

[00:10:38] And then it was just, I don't want to be here.

[00:10:41] I want God to kill me.

[00:10:43] God should take me up in heaven.

[00:10:44] I'm not supposed to be here.

[00:10:45] Stuff along those lines.

[00:10:47] I started trying to like choke myself out as a kid in my room all the time, obviously.

[00:10:52] So I don't really count as a suicide or like self-harm.

[00:10:56] I got into middle school, obviously around 13.

[00:10:59] You start going through puberty and that just tanked me.

[00:11:03] Not only was everything else in my life betraying me and painful.

[00:11:08] Now my own body was as well and I couldn't take it.

[00:11:11] I came home and had not a great time with my parents.

[00:11:14] Already had been depressed.

[00:11:15] When school was like, when I get home from school, I'm going to take a belt and I'm going to hang myself.

[00:11:20] Just looked at inspirational quotes until through the whole school day.

[00:11:23] School day.

[00:11:24] I'm just imagining you, 13 years old.

[00:11:26] Are you finding inspirational quotes that are just sort of meta?

[00:11:29] Like it makes you feel a little better about what you're about to do?

[00:11:32] A bit of both.

[00:11:32] It's a bit of like, everything's going to be okay.

[00:11:34] God's going to love you no matter what.

[00:11:36] And I have also a lot of like, oh, it's fine.

[00:11:39] God put you here for a reason.

[00:11:40] He wouldn't give you challenges you didn't have the strength for.

[00:11:43] No.

[00:11:44] Tell me about that day.

[00:11:45] So you're leaving school and you've decided to end your life or try to, I should say, with a belt.

[00:11:49] Yeah.

[00:11:51] I get on the bus and I go home and basically try to sprint down to my room before my parents can intercept me.

[00:11:57] Usually that works fine.

[00:11:59] That was kind of my strategy.

[00:12:00] Go and hide.

[00:12:00] I got really unlucky this day because they were waiting downstairs for me and they caught me before I got in my room to do it.

[00:12:08] I posted some of the inspirational quotes on like, I don't really remember what it was, but some social media platform.

[00:12:14] I don't know, maybe to help others before I went.

[00:12:18] Kind of what was my mindset.

[00:12:19] Like maybe someone else struggling can see this and be fine even though I won't be here.

[00:12:23] They caught me and I didn't get it to make it to my room.

[00:12:26] So I guess I never really attempted, but in my mind, if they hadn't caught me, I would have been dead.

[00:12:32] So you're pretty confident that you would have figured out how to make that belt work and kill you.

[00:12:38] I wouldn't have stopped once I started.

[00:12:40] You were done.

[00:12:41] Yeah.

[00:12:41] I was out of there.

[00:12:42] But yet the thing is, is that it doesn't happen and you're there with your folks or you leave the house.

[00:12:48] Whatever happens in the next minute or hour or day or week and then there you are.

[00:12:53] Yep.

[00:12:53] We're in 13 years old.

[00:12:55] Everything else is, I guess, the same as it was the hour before you got home.

[00:13:00] Yeah.

[00:13:00] Only difference is they, because they saw the quotes like, oh, you're depressed.

[00:13:04] You're just like mom now, which hurts a bit, obviously, considering that relationship.

[00:13:10] But I started going to therapy, which was weird.

[00:13:12] Mormon therapist?

[00:13:13] Yeah.

[00:13:14] I mean, it was nice to have someone to talk to where I could just kind of go in a room and my mother couldn't be there.

[00:13:20] No one could come and do whatever to me.

[00:13:23] But he never really did anything except for ask me about girls and try to coach me on dating, which was weird because I was not interested.

[00:13:34] I hated my body and I hated everything.

[00:13:36] He was not in a place where I thought I was any form of lovable.

[00:13:39] But he's like, compliment them like this.

[00:13:41] And maybe like leave a note for this girl in her locker.

[00:13:45] And I'm like, I don't want to be here.

[00:13:47] You haven't asked first anything.

[00:13:49] And that's all it was pretty much just dating advice.

[00:13:52] It was weird.

[00:13:53] That is sounds weird.

[00:13:54] Do you think he, he, it was a he?

[00:13:57] Mm hmm.

[00:13:57] Middle age white guy?

[00:13:58] Yeah.

[00:13:59] There we go again.

[00:14:01] Fuck.

[00:14:01] Middle age white Mormon dude.

[00:14:03] God damn.

[00:14:03] Do you think there was anything about it given, given who he is and where he comes from and what he believes and how he probably goes?

[00:14:09] Do you think the thing that was, he was thinking was like, Grin just needs to find somebody and that will actually help.

[00:14:17] I think it was just like, we need to get this girl someone and then it'll all be fine.

[00:14:22] That's it.

[00:14:23] She's lonely.

[00:14:23] That's all that matters.

[00:14:24] So I think he had good intentions, just didn't do what you do on this podcast and just listen sometimes.

[00:14:31] So the earliest teen years, how would you characterize those years in your life?

[00:14:36] The abuse slowly got better as time went on, which is good, though still not great.

[00:14:41] Dad got less violent, but was more prone to anger outbursts.

[00:14:45] He broke one of our screen doors one time.

[00:14:47] Don't even remember why, but he's got so pissed.

[00:14:50] He just slammed it and the whole thing shattered.

[00:14:52] Left it like that for a couple weeks.

[00:14:54] That's kind of the level.

[00:14:55] Mom continued to struggle and that was when my two little brothers actually started getting not great themselves.

[00:15:03] My younger brother, so brother one, I think he has some form of antisocial personality disorder or sociopathy.

[00:15:12] He very much enjoyed hurting both animals and other people.

[00:15:15] My youngest brother has Tourette's and ADHD and he started hurting himself.

[00:15:19] Both of them started getting into drugs to cope with everything going on.

[00:15:24] So that's kind of what it looked like for that point.

[00:15:27] Pretty much is just that sustained until we hit 16.

[00:15:31] I moved schools and that's kind of when the leaving the church started because I didn't really realize it,

[00:15:38] but my parents just kind of stopped going to church and started drinking.

[00:15:42] And then all of a sudden, as we're going to sign up for seminary class, actually, my mother is like,

[00:15:47] hey, so how do you feel about us not being Mormon anymore?

[00:15:51] As we're driving to go sign me up for Mormon school, basically.

[00:15:55] She's like, I wanted to check with you before I checked with the rest of the family,

[00:15:59] which is obviously more that weird dynamic of me being the weird parental authority,

[00:16:05] but at the same time, the abused child weirdness.

[00:16:09] So that's kind of where that discussion went.

[00:16:12] And that's when my parents started getting into alcoholism, which is a great term to take.

[00:16:18] Ism to ism to ism to ism.

[00:16:19] That's how we do it.

[00:16:21] That's how it's often done.

[00:16:22] Playing leapfrog across every backup mechanism.

[00:16:25] Guilty here.

[00:16:26] I mean, I'm guilty.

[00:16:27] Fuck.

[00:16:27] But I'd started working a job.

[00:16:29] I'd just gotten broken up with by the first girl I dated.

[00:16:33] Pretty mediocre relationship.

[00:16:35] Honestly, don't know much to say about it.

[00:16:36] Like, oh, this sucks.

[00:16:38] No one can love me.

[00:16:39] Yeah, I was in such a bad mental state after that that I ended up getting that night.

[00:16:44] I got sent home from work.

[00:16:45] I just I couldn't do it that day for some reason.

[00:16:48] And I was too terrified and like ashamed and embarrassed to actually go home to my parents

[00:16:55] early from work and say I got sent home.

[00:16:56] So I took a different turn and just started driving up a canyon into the mountains.

[00:17:03] And it was pretty snowy.

[00:17:05] It was cold that time of year.

[00:17:07] And I intended to slip off the ice and roll over a cliff and die in a car wreck.

[00:17:13] Make it look like an accident so no one had to worry or freak out.

[00:17:16] I don't know how I didn't die because I was going 40 up icy covered roads.

[00:17:22] Like my car was slipping and sliding and I was not doing much to fight.

[00:17:26] I don't know how I made it, but I made it the two hours I spent driving those icy roads

[00:17:31] somehow.

[00:17:32] And I think maybe it was just like an unconscious subconscious part of your body.

[00:17:37] That's like survival instinct not letting me just.

[00:17:41] Oh, OK, OK, OK.

[00:17:42] So because you didn't like veer the car, but it sounds like you just got on.

[00:17:46] Well, lucky or unlucky, depending on how you do it.

[00:17:48] Just hit some ice.

[00:17:49] Yeah.

[00:17:50] What's your state?

[00:17:51] Are you if I were to see you somehow, like I'm in a helicopter.

[00:17:55] That makes no sense.

[00:17:56] Whatever.

[00:17:57] I'm a fly in your fucking dashboard.

[00:17:59] Are you like intense?

[00:18:01] Are you focused?

[00:18:02] Are you all over the place?

[00:18:03] Are you calm?

[00:18:04] Like, well, what do you remember?

[00:18:05] All over the place.

[00:18:06] I was all over the place, like just yelling, screaming, crying.

[00:18:11] And I ended up parking my car at some point and like sending out delayed texts to my

[00:18:16] friends that I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm not going to be here.

[00:18:18] And then continue driving like I was off the rails feeling awful.

[00:18:23] Made it back somehow.

[00:18:25] But so then you're parking your car and then you just sort of decide if that's the right

[00:18:30] word.

[00:18:30] I guess I'll go home.

[00:18:31] Yeah.

[00:18:32] I mean, I made it to either side.

[00:18:33] I'm like, well, I guess I'm going to go home now.

[00:18:35] I canceled the texts and drove home, went to bed and woke up and went to work the next

[00:18:41] day.

[00:18:41] It was.

[00:18:42] Oh, you did delayed texts.

[00:18:44] That's above my tech understanding.

[00:18:46] Yeah.

[00:18:46] But you are Gen Z.

[00:18:48] So it's you're like born with that shit.

[00:18:50] You just get it from birth.

[00:18:52] OK, so the people in your life that you would have sent those texts to, they never saw them.

[00:18:56] Nope.

[00:18:56] I think I misfired one, but it was so vague that they didn't understand.

[00:19:00] We're just like, I love you, too.

[00:19:02] How do people, I mean, how do people, you in this case, want to die?

[00:19:07] Because that's what you said earlier on.

[00:19:08] You wanted to die for all those attempts.

[00:19:10] Yeah.

[00:19:11] And just get home with life.

[00:19:13] Whoa.

[00:19:13] It's definitely weird.

[00:19:15] The wanting to die never really stopped.

[00:19:16] It's kind of pervasive, almost an everyday thing.

[00:19:19] I don't really know.

[00:19:22] It's kind of like that thing where you just, well, I'm going to keep walking and then you

[00:19:25] just end up somewhere, I guess.

[00:19:27] I spent a lot of time trying to forget that I was even alive, which I think helped just

[00:19:32] the amount of books and TV shows and games and art.

[00:19:36] Different things I've tried to cope with it is astronomical.

[00:19:40] At 16, are you still going to school?

[00:19:42] Mm-hmm.

[00:19:43] Yeah.

[00:19:43] At that time, I was actually doing high school and college at the same time, going for an

[00:19:47] associate's degree, which I think that stress also added.

[00:19:50] I went to school and about a week later, I started talking to my friend about it.

[00:19:54] And she's like, hey, we should get you into the school counselor.

[00:19:56] That was my second attempt at therapy.

[00:19:58] Middle-aged Mormon white men?

[00:20:00] Yes.

[00:20:01] How long did you last with that one?

[00:20:02] Three sessions.

[00:20:04] The first two, we were talking about religious issues.

[00:20:07] The third one, he brought my parents in, which for me is mortifying.

[00:20:11] I'm not going to be honest at all if my parents are in the room.

[00:20:13] Sure.

[00:20:14] These are people who I am afraid will kill me if I take a wrong step out of line.

[00:20:18] And he's like, yeah, you should just get over your differences.

[00:20:20] Like here, this is what she's been saying.

[00:20:22] And I'm like, no, stop, stop, stop saying this.

[00:20:26] Oh my gosh, stop.

[00:20:28] My mom's like, yeah, I didn't like that therapist.

[00:20:31] Then I never saw him again, which was breath of pressure and relief for me.

[00:20:35] And this was also around the same time you were leaving the religion as well, right?

[00:20:39] Mm-hmm.

[00:20:39] Yeah, that was like one of the big things, which is odd why it was like a Christian Mormon therapist.

[00:20:46] I'll never understand it.

[00:20:47] But you know, I have my limits in understanding plenty of things.

[00:20:50] When do you do, I don't know if it's formally, informally leave Mormonism, the church?

[00:20:55] Yeah.

[00:20:56] Yeah.

[00:20:56] I really kind of just stopped caring when I was like 17-ish.

[00:21:00] Like that's when it just completely stopped and the full jump into alcoholism came to be a thing.

[00:21:05] I ended up going through and finishing school.

[00:21:08] After that, I took this approach of, I realized like I wanted to make friends.

[00:21:12] I wanted to date.

[00:21:13] And I also started to realize like, hey, I don't think I'm actually a dude.

[00:21:17] I don't think I'm a guy.

[00:21:19] But my first response to that was, oh, I can't be trans.

[00:21:23] I can't be a girl.

[00:21:24] I can't do that.

[00:21:25] My dad would kill me.

[00:21:26] Like so many others do, I took the hardest shift into being ultra masculine you could.

[00:21:32] Went to the gym, started growing out a beard and like got super into like metal and like Norse.

[00:21:38] Like, oh, I'm a Viking, manly stuff.

[00:21:40] And obviously it didn't turn out.

[00:21:42] When you were going like sort of super masculine, did part of that feel good?

[00:21:46] It felt nice to be seen as strong, but it also felt disgusting to be seen as masculine.

[00:21:51] I knew why, but I didn't want to look it in the face.

[00:21:54] It's just because I'm not masculine enough.

[00:21:56] That's why I feel gross.

[00:21:57] It's because I feel, I feel girly.

[00:22:00] The beard was mortifying to see in my face.

[00:22:03] Everything else and people would be like, oh yeah, you're such a manly dude.

[00:22:07] Like you're the most masculine guy.

[00:22:09] Yeah, very strong.

[00:22:11] Oh, I love this.

[00:22:13] Get me out of here.

[00:22:14] It was a huge push to be seen as masculine.

[00:22:17] And I did actually end up getting a girlfriend at the time.

[00:22:20] And that was a very abusive relationship.

[00:22:23] Like she hit me once.

[00:22:26] No counts.

[00:22:26] Even if it feels weird.

[00:22:27] Threatened a lot.

[00:22:28] Threw things at me.

[00:22:29] Silent treatment.

[00:22:30] She shoved the bottle in my mouth and wouldn't take it out until I started drinking.

[00:22:33] And that's pretty much how all of my phrase into substances and alcohol went is just drink

[00:22:40] this.

[00:22:40] So that didn't work out?

[00:22:42] No, it lasted five months, which I'm lucky it lasted only that long.

[00:22:45] God, it was unbearable.

[00:22:47] I left partly because of the abuse and partly because I realized like I can't be this masculine

[00:22:51] dude anymore.

[00:22:52] Like I just have to accept this and see where it goes.

[00:22:55] Like I'll do some research and I'll experiment and see if I like being a girl.

[00:22:59] So that's a huge thing though.

[00:23:02] Yeah, it was really scary.

[00:23:04] And I waited.

[00:23:05] I got out of that relationship in like November.

[00:23:08] I didn't start transitioning till way late in January.

[00:23:11] Just kind of realized I definitely like expressing feminine a lot more.

[00:23:14] Started transitioning not even a couple months after I told my family, which they started.

[00:23:20] They were at first accepting.

[00:23:21] Like my mom cried, but they're like, we love you no matter what.

[00:23:24] And I'm like, oh, great.

[00:23:25] Okay.

[00:23:26] Okay.

[00:23:27] Nice.

[00:23:27] Nice.

[00:23:28] Then once I started actually dressing feminine around them, once I got the courage to like

[00:23:32] present as who I wanted to be, then they got a bit yiffy.

[00:23:37] My dad just kind of started taking a big back step.

[00:23:40] All came to a head when family photos were brought up because I'm like, I don't want to

[00:23:45] go as the masculine dude to family photos.

[00:23:48] Like it doesn't make sense.

[00:23:49] And I don't really look like that even anymore.

[00:23:52] Like this isn't right.

[00:23:53] Right.

[00:23:53] And then they got into a big fight and they stopped talking to me and I'd moved out by

[00:23:57] that point, which should have specified.

[00:23:59] I was lucky to have that space on my own.

[00:24:02] That was interesting.

[00:24:03] I did try to actually go to the family photos, but they gave me the wrong address and then never

[00:24:08] sent me the right one.

[00:24:09] Wow.

[00:24:09] Okay.

[00:24:10] That's when things started going pretty bad for me because I was out of the house.

[00:24:14] So I was able to think for myself, I was experiencing this whole new reality shift of being trans and

[00:24:20] that and my parents cut me off.

[00:24:22] So I immediately am like, okay, I'm feeling awful.

[00:24:25] I don't want to feel that way.

[00:24:27] I got to do anything.

[00:24:28] I started like drinking underage at that point, partying, dating really riskily going to concerts,

[00:24:35] like everything I could to not think about everything going on.

[00:24:40] Didn't work because I didn't feel great.

[00:24:42] And that's when attempts started getting a little closer together.

[00:24:45] I don't remember exactly when, but I'd got this there, another therapist.

[00:24:50] I've had six therapists.

[00:24:52] I got in touch with him specifically to try to navigate transitioning and all that stuff.

[00:24:58] He talked to me about his marriage and I talked him through his issues with his daughter

[00:25:02] and his insurance and his car wreck and buying a new car.

[00:25:06] I therapized him instead of him actually doing anything for me.

[00:25:09] I didn't really remember a lot of the assault at this point.

[00:25:12] So I sent an email to him like, hey, I think I might've actually been assaulted.

[00:25:16] I show a lot of signs and symptoms of that type of behavior.

[00:25:20] And I keep getting these weird, like uncomfortable things going on.

[00:25:24] He never responded or talked to me again.

[00:25:26] I'm ghosting completely.

[00:25:28] And that's when I...

[00:25:29] Fuck, how are they training therapists in Utah?

[00:25:32] This is a fucking joke.

[00:25:34] It hurt.

[00:25:35] I felt like crap.

[00:25:36] And that's later, maybe that's when I attempted again, a third attempt.

[00:25:40] Yeah.

[00:25:41] That one, I shoved a bottle of pills in my mouth,

[00:25:43] just rolled them around and I just couldn't make myself swallow.

[00:25:47] But I tried again, not even a couple of months later.

[00:25:50] Same method.

[00:25:51] Swallowed some, but as I started to got nervous.

[00:25:54] So I Googled like, hey, does this actually like work?

[00:25:57] And it's like, no, you'll just get liver damage.

[00:26:00] Bells, carnice, pills, pills.

[00:26:03] Mm-hmm.

[00:26:03] I went the next year or so until I made it to my 20th birthday.

[00:26:07] I mentioned in my email political violence.

[00:26:11] I'd already been getting some just like slurs, you know, small stuff.

[00:26:16] But I went to this drag show on my 20th birthday to celebrate being out as trans with some guy I was dating at the time.

[00:26:23] When I showed up, there were a bunch of police cars in front of the drag like tea shop that it was being held in.

[00:26:28] And as we're walking up, I noticed there's like a bunch of dark figures like gathered in front of the tea shop.

[00:26:36] And as we approach, like a cop comes over and the lights are flashing and they all turn towards the cop.

[00:26:42] And I noticed they all have guns.

[00:26:43] And they're dressed in like tactical, like military dress, vests and clips and helmets and jeans.

[00:26:53] And a lot of them are holding like, keep calm, stop grooming or get your pedophiles away from my kids.

[00:26:59] And like just horrendous stuff, which considering how trans people are perceived nowadays, I was like familiar with,

[00:27:06] but not expecting when I was going to celebrate my birthday and have fun to sing and dance and eat some toast.

[00:27:13] They were right by the entrance.

[00:27:14] So we had to walk within a couple feet of these gun-toting dudes just staring me down, try to have fun.

[00:27:22] But the police lights are flashing through the window and they eventually, the police lights go away.

[00:27:28] Drag show was cool.

[00:27:29] Unfortunately, haven't been to one since for obvious reasons.

[00:27:31] And we go out and it's completely, I just remember like the silence.

[00:27:35] Cold January, silent, dark, empty street.

[00:27:39] Except for this group of guys with guns and gear.

[00:27:44] The cops are gone.

[00:27:45] So as we're walking by them to get back to the car, they're just saying some of the most awful things.

[00:27:50] Like, did you enjoy the kids?

[00:27:52] Oh yeah, but you love being in there with those kids.

[00:27:54] And like, it was disgusting.

[00:27:56] The things they were saying.

[00:27:58] So inaccurate.

[00:27:59] There was one family there with two kids.

[00:28:02] I didn't sit near them.

[00:28:04] Obviously, I've been abused myself.

[00:28:06] And to hear those being accused of being my abuser for something I don't want to change and can't really change.

[00:28:13] And knowing that these guys had guns and could kill me if they wanted to.

[00:28:18] Like, walking back to the car.

[00:28:19] No protection between me and them.

[00:28:21] I'm just waiting for one of them to just snap.

[00:28:25] That's the night.

[00:28:26] And pull a gun and shoot me.

[00:28:27] And I'm like, imagining myself like, kind of weird with the suicidality.

[00:28:31] But being killed like that's not the way I want to go.

[00:28:34] I don't want to lie on the pavement bleeding out.

[00:28:37] Because some bigot got a little too angry one night.

[00:28:40] Over the next couple months, I couldn't stop seeing that night.

[00:28:42] It was just every night, every couple days, over and over and over.

[00:28:47] I'd just walk down that street waiting for a gun to shoot me.

[00:28:49] It got worse and worse and worse.

[00:28:52] Until I just got such an up.

[00:28:54] Like, I started not being able to sleep because of the nightmares.

[00:28:58] And I'd already been struggling with nightmares.

[00:29:00] It just got so much more steep.

[00:29:02] So much worse.

[00:29:03] I was at work one day and hadn't slept the last night or two.

[00:29:07] Run out on a couple hours of sleep, barely.

[00:29:10] And I notice I'm starting to like hallucinate a bit.

[00:29:13] Just all the sleep deprivation and the stress.

[00:29:15] And at that point, I'm like, okay, I need to check myself into the psych ward.

[00:29:18] And I was working with a therapist at the time.

[00:29:21] She didn't help a lot, actually, with the PTSD.

[00:29:23] She was probably the only good one.

[00:29:26] But I still haven't been seeing her, which I won't get to.

[00:29:29] Because I go to the hospital, I get FMLA.

[00:29:33] And I spend two weeks in there.

[00:29:35] It's been really nice to hear other people talking about the hospital on the podcast.

[00:29:38] Because I mean, I know it wasn't the only one.

[00:29:42] But I'm like, okay, surely this was just an exceptionally bad experience, right?

[00:29:46] No, people were getting like tranquilized and put down, locked in like an isolation.

[00:29:52] I spent the first night in a concrete coffin.

[00:29:54] They called the isolation room with straps on the bed.

[00:29:57] Not a great way to start where I went to willingly to try to get some help because I was dying.

[00:30:03] It was awful.

[00:30:04] Two weeks of that.

[00:30:05] I didn't really receive any therapy.

[00:30:07] I saw a therapist a couple times.

[00:30:09] But they're mostly like, here's your get out plan.

[00:30:12] Here's the papers.

[00:30:13] Sign these.

[00:30:14] Tell me what I want to know.

[00:30:15] And you can leave.

[00:30:16] And I'm like, but I haven't got any help yet.

[00:30:18] So fucking backwards.

[00:30:20] Like this is still awful.

[00:30:21] And like, hey, like some of the guys on the unit are being creepy.

[00:30:25] And they had ECT on site at that hospital, which I've heard good stories, which is interesting.

[00:30:32] But a lot of the people I saw come out were just like zombies for that day.

[00:30:35] And that kind of scared me.

[00:30:37] I'm like, God, they look awful.

[00:30:40] Someone around, not able to talk.

[00:30:41] And I was like, I mean, I hope it works for them.

[00:30:43] But this doesn't seem okay.

[00:30:45] This seems pretty awful.

[00:30:46] Trying meds.

[00:30:47] It didn't work.

[00:30:48] One of which actually just full on sedated me for hours.

[00:30:53] And I couldn't stand or anything.

[00:30:55] Couldn't talk.

[00:30:55] So I just like flopped.

[00:30:57] And they dragged me to my room, tossed me on the bed and left me there for I don't even know how long.

[00:31:01] Because I couldn't tell.

[00:31:02] I got an injury at that time.

[00:31:04] I'm not really sure how.

[00:31:05] I paced the unit a lot, just out of stress.

[00:31:08] And it still hurts to this day, actually.

[00:31:11] I think it's some form of like nerve damage.

[00:31:13] But they left me limping around on the unit, unable to put any weight on that foot for days until they actually checked on it.

[00:31:19] Took two days until someone came over.

[00:31:23] I was like, oh, hey, we should look at that.

[00:31:25] Limping patient.

[00:31:26] Who knows?

[00:31:27] Maybe they tried to do something themselves.

[00:31:28] Nope.

[00:31:29] That sucked.

[00:31:30] Got out of that, obviously, with a lot of debt.

[00:31:32] So things got worse.

[00:31:33] That's the thing.

[00:31:34] And I'm not going to go on and on about this.

[00:31:37] But there was a period of time, particularly on this podcast, where I just had to always talk about that.

[00:31:43] Thing that is never talked about.

[00:31:44] Is not only is the care typically fucking awful.

[00:31:48] Being a lot.

[00:31:49] And a lot of it's not covered.

[00:31:51] So it is truly the biggest racket.

[00:31:53] I cannot think of a racket that I feel is more immoral or unethical or just.

[00:32:00] I try to see it from different angles.

[00:32:03] I'm like, so let me understand.

[00:32:05] I'm paying whatever it is, $800, $2,000 a day.

[00:32:09] Would it have been so much better, given that you didn't get any help, to just take that, if you were going to spend that money, and just go to a really nice resort?

[00:32:17] Yeah, that would have been perfect.

[00:32:18] Or, I don't know, get a new car.

[00:32:21] Other things that might help.

[00:32:23] They put you in a Dollar Tree prison with overworked staff who are good and crappy staff who could not give a shit if you're alive or dead.

[00:32:33] Will actively make you worse.

[00:32:35] Some people in there got overcharged because they rented a car to come down because they heard this hospital was great.

[00:32:40] No, they were lied to in advertising, apparently.

[00:32:43] How are there not many criminals in this scenario?

[00:32:47] Some of the people that do go in are people who were quartered or went to prison.

[00:32:53] It's a weird environment.

[00:32:54] Nothing against those people.

[00:32:56] Putting people together like that.

[00:32:58] And I was on a rehab and mental health unit because I don't think they ever had a, or at least I didn't get put on the specific mental health unit.

[00:33:06] So I was there with people like detoxing from all sorts of things, which as someone who didn't do, like, I did like a bit of weed, some alcohol.

[00:33:15] Like, seeing someone come down from vent is wild to see.

[00:33:20] And it leaves a real impact on you when you get out and you just go back to work within a day or two.

[00:33:26] I couldn't take it when I got out.

[00:33:28] Having all that money and then not getting any help.

[00:33:31] My body broke.

[00:33:32] All that stress.

[00:33:33] It was already taking a toll, like, getting sick for longer and longer.

[00:33:38] And I lost my job because of it.

[00:33:40] They fired me because I couldn't work.

[00:33:41] I got too sick.

[00:33:43] After that, I just spent months with that therapist trying to get back on my feet and I couldn't do it.

[00:33:48] I'd started talking to my parents again by that point.

[00:33:51] Not really sure how.

[00:33:52] I just kind of wanted them back, I guess.

[00:33:54] Like, some form of support, which was not much.

[00:33:58] They did drive me to the hospital, but they didn't really care that I was institutionalizing myself because I was struggling.

[00:34:04] They honestly just talked to me about my little sister's phone usage and my brother's job problems and asking for advice on how to parent them the whole way.

[00:34:14] And I'm like, dude, I'm going to the psych ward.

[00:34:16] Like, I can't function myself.

[00:34:18] Why are you asking me how to parent again?

[00:34:20] Weird tangent.

[00:34:21] Sorry.

[00:34:22] No, no, no, no.

[00:34:22] But it does give us an idea of what you're dealing with, right?

[00:34:26] Mm-hmm.

[00:34:26] And after I get to the hospital, that only gets worse.

[00:34:29] More advice.

[00:34:30] Actually, as I'm getting picked up and driven home, my mom's like,

[00:34:33] why don't I become your therapist?

[00:34:35] Why don't I be your therapist now?

[00:34:37] Are you fucking kidding me?

[00:34:39] The woman who I've talked to out of suicide countless times and has been a monster in my life is asking to give me therapy.

[00:34:48] Ridiculous.

[00:34:49] So, and then she's like throwing like vitamins and you should get like more magnesium.

[00:34:54] And here's all these pills to take.

[00:34:56] About magnesium.

[00:34:57] Screw it.

[00:34:57] I'll try.

[00:34:58] And I did.

[00:34:59] Nothing.

[00:35:00] Vitamins maybe work for some people.

[00:35:02] Not for me, though.

[00:35:02] No.

[00:35:03] And trying to do exercise, going to the gym, trying to get out in the sun.

[00:35:07] But every night I'd come home.

[00:35:09] I didn't have any friends at that point.

[00:35:10] So it was just me.

[00:35:12] Job.

[00:35:12] No energy.

[00:35:13] Feeling sick all the time.

[00:35:15] New injury.

[00:35:16] Brutal.

[00:35:16] Brutal.

[00:35:17] Relying on savings.

[00:35:18] It goes on for several months until we get...

[00:35:23] January 2024.

[00:35:24] Mm-hmm.

[00:35:25] Yeah.

[00:35:25] The Christmas war was rough.

[00:35:27] Like just getting reintroduced.

[00:35:28] I'd finally found a safer apartment and was feeling fine.

[00:35:32] But recovering some of the memories I just pushed down caused things to get even worse

[00:35:37] somehow.

[00:35:38] Isolation.

[00:35:39] Health issues.

[00:35:40] Debt.

[00:35:41] No job.

[00:35:42] No friends.

[00:35:43] Mm-hmm.

[00:35:43] I start a month countdown for this attempt.

[00:35:46] I journal every single day whether I want to die, what I want to do.

[00:35:51] And I cut a little length off a ribbon every day for the days until I was going to do it

[00:35:56] to try to make certain.

[00:35:57] And I got a method that I was 100% certain it was going to work.

[00:36:00] Skipped to that day.

[00:36:01] I had a really fun party the night before.

[00:36:04] I cleaned my apartment, boxed some things up.

[00:36:06] Tonight's the night.

[00:36:07] Let's get all my stuff.

[00:36:08] I drove out to some parking lot out by a lake, set everything up, hide the bag over

[00:36:13] my head, turned on the gas.

[00:36:15] This is where I said about the neck and who knows what you're going to do when you start

[00:36:21] losing air because I didn't turn on the gas soon enough.

[00:36:24] And I started getting carbon dioxide poisoning and God, the panic, the pain and the panic

[00:36:32] of not being able to breathe.

[00:36:33] It was awful.

[00:36:35] I tried.

[00:36:36] I sat there, sat on my hands, just doing everything like, okay, I'm going to pass out.

[00:36:40] And I got there.

[00:36:41] I was so close.

[00:36:43] Maybe an additional 10 seconds and I would have been out.

[00:36:45] Once you reach that point where your brain just stops working, your body takes over.

[00:36:50] And I mean, even with people who do successfully hang themselves, they'll have scratch marks

[00:36:55] on their throat and stuff, right?

[00:36:57] My body tore the bag for me.

[00:36:59] I just kind of sat there in the cold, coughing and gasping.

[00:37:02] I don't even know how long went by, but it was early at that point.

[00:37:06] I realized, oh my God, I failed.

[00:37:09] It didn't work.

[00:37:09] I'm still here.

[00:37:10] I felt so, so angry and just aggrieved, sad, disappointed.

[00:37:17] I don't really know how to describe the feeling because it was awful.

[00:37:22] Just this mounting pain exploding through me.

[00:37:25] I called a hotline because I'm like, I don't have the resources to try again.

[00:37:29] I don't want to just go home.

[00:37:30] Let's see if I get a better hospital.

[00:37:32] Maybe something will work this time.

[00:37:35] Maybe it'll be taken seriously if, I don't know, I don't check myself in.

[00:37:39] So ambulance comes, cops come, get in the back of a cop car to keep warm, get loaded in

[00:37:45] the ambulance.

[00:37:46] I think I was honestly in shock at that point because I was joking and laughing and just,

[00:37:51] I was trying to ignore it.

[00:37:53] Honestly, I was lucky I didn't sit in the hospital, like the ER for too long before they got me

[00:37:58] to bed.

[00:37:59] My mom came, nothing.

[00:38:01] It's just like, why'd you do it?

[00:38:02] And I'm like, I felt awful.

[00:38:04] Obviously, I didn't say all the reasons because at that point, I remember the things she and

[00:38:08] my dad did to me, the beatings, the yelling, the guns, starvation, alcoholism, the whole

[00:38:15] fucking shebang.

[00:38:16] One of the things I remembered was actually my bishop.

[00:38:18] Obviously, as a teen, you start to mess around with like masturbation.

[00:38:23] And as a Mormon, big no-no felt like the worst scum on earth.

[00:38:28] So you go to your bishop, kind of a confessional type deal.

[00:38:31] It is honestly such a crime, but they're still allowed to have those rooms because the bishop's

[00:38:36] offices have this large oak door in front of them that is soundproof.

[00:38:41] You are alone in that room with the bishop behind this locked soundproof door so no one

[00:38:47] can hear what goes on in that room.

[00:38:48] And in that room, I was, while confessing to being masturbated, I was actually raped

[00:38:53] by my bishop.

[00:38:54] That was around 13, 14.

[00:38:56] So I told her that was the reason I remembered that my bishop did that to me.

[00:38:59] And she's like, oh, so he sodomized you.

[00:39:01] Okay.

[00:39:02] And then walked out of the room, came back in.

[00:39:04] It's like, okay, I'm tired.

[00:39:05] I'm going to go home and left.

[00:39:07] And I just kind of waited in the hospital until I got put in another ambulance and wheeled

[00:39:13] off to another hospital, another two-week stay in, wouldn't you guess, another rehab mental

[00:39:18] health unit where I saw even worse, more people coming down from fentanyl and some serious

[00:39:25] hard drugs, like chairs being thrown.

[00:39:28] I did meet one of my best friends there.

[00:39:29] And that's probably the only good thing that came out of that hospital because the patients,

[00:39:33] that is the one thing about the hospital.

[00:39:34] Some of the other patients can be amazing.

[00:39:36] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:39:37] And really kind.

[00:39:38] But the care, it was a bit better at this one, more groups, but it was still like, you're

[00:39:43] not leaving until we say you leave.

[00:39:45] I didn't realize at this time, I don't know why I didn't realize, but I didn't realize I

[00:39:49] could leave after three days.

[00:39:50] So I'm like, well, I guess I'm here till they say I can leave.

[00:39:54] They don't tell you till they can't get any more money squeezed out of you.

[00:39:57] I'm like, I can't leave.

[00:39:58] This is a prison.

[00:40:00] Like, I can't run.

[00:40:01] I can't.

[00:40:01] I have no rights here.

[00:40:03] They stripped my rights away from me.

[00:40:05] They just kind of leave you having a panic attack.

[00:40:08] They put you in a room.

[00:40:09] They were so negligent.

[00:40:11] They had these paintbrushes and one of them had a metal, they had like metal tips.

[00:40:15] And I was able to peel one of those off and self-harm.

[00:40:19] Sorry, I glossed over that.

[00:40:21] Self-harm is a thing.

[00:40:21] I went in the bathroom every couple days and used the dull edge of a metal paintbrush

[00:40:27] to just scratch into myself.

[00:40:30] They never caught on, like never noticed that one of the paintbrushes was missing a tip,

[00:40:34] never checked on me.

[00:40:36] I don't exactly begrudge them because I did it myself.

[00:40:39] I wanted to, but the thing they're trying to prevent.

[00:40:43] So yeah, you're allowed to begrudge them.

[00:40:46] That's awful.

[00:40:46] Dude, it was incredibly easy for me to do this.

[00:40:50] Like some girl found a shard of glass somehow and was able to do worse.

[00:40:54] If you go into a store and the woman or man or whomever is there and they're not doing

[00:40:59] a really good friendly job at being like servicing you, most people these days flip out at them.

[00:41:06] Yeah.

[00:41:07] Which I'm not saying is okay.

[00:41:09] They'll take a picture.

[00:41:10] They'll leave a one-star review.

[00:41:12] They'll do all this stuff because they didn't get a fucking latte in the time that they expected

[00:41:16] to get it.

[00:41:17] I think it's very reasonable if you have a problem with people who are like ignoring you as you're

[00:41:22] trying to deal with all this shit.

[00:41:23] It's fucking absurd.

[00:41:25] It's bad.

[00:41:26] It's really bad.

[00:41:27] One of my, the friend I made in the hospital, actually, one of the doctors was like insulting

[00:41:32] her because of her weight as she was going through like inactive eating disorder.

[00:41:35] A lot of stuff.

[00:41:37] Do you have not tried this year?

[00:41:39] I still have tried since then.

[00:41:41] That was the last attempt because maybe six months after I tried again with not gas, but

[00:41:47] just a bag this time.

[00:41:49] Okay.

[00:41:49] Same thing.

[00:41:50] Tore it off.

[00:41:51] Didn't have the courage to tie up my hands.

[00:41:54] I had the rope.

[00:41:55] I just, I don't know.

[00:41:57] I had a friend at that point.

[00:41:58] So I had something like thinking, oh, maybe I can't do this to her.

[00:42:02] And then you find this podcast.

[00:42:03] Then I find this podcast.

[00:42:05] Mm-hmm.

[00:42:05] And now I'm here talking.

[00:42:07] And you still want to die because I asked you that earlier.

[00:42:09] Yeah.

[00:42:10] She's saying you still want to die because there's a suggestion there that I don't want to make.

[00:42:14] So you want to die.

[00:42:15] Mm-hmm.

[00:42:16] It's only gotten worse.

[00:42:17] It's been a steady downhill.

[00:42:19] Let's go to the pink and purple pill question right now then.

[00:42:22] So for the sake of the audience who may not know it, I give Brynn a pink and purple pill.

[00:42:27] The color really doesn't matter.

[00:42:28] She takes it.

[00:42:29] She goes to sleep.

[00:42:30] She dies peacefully.

[00:42:31] Nobody knows it's a suicide.

[00:42:33] What do you do with that pill?

[00:42:35] I take it.

[00:42:36] I really, especially the not people knowing, like the one thing that's probably kept me so

[00:42:40] far from trying again is I don't want to do it to my friend.

[00:42:43] We both came to the hospital and I don't want to leave her without a support system.

[00:42:47] But at the same time, looking at the next four years and the debt and medical problems

[00:42:53] and mental health and estranged from my parents and all this stuff is just bearing down on me.

[00:42:59] So for some reason, Brynn, with you, first time ever, I'm going to ask, what flavor?

[00:43:04] Don't let the pink and purple influence the flavor.

[00:43:06] It could be any flavor.

[00:43:08] So it might help to think of it as like a white pill just because flavors and colors are connected.

[00:43:12] What flavor would you want it to be?

[00:43:15] Probably strawberry.

[00:43:16] Strawberry.

[00:43:17] Strawberry would be great.

[00:43:19] So a pink and purple strawberry flavored pill that if I gave to you through Zoom,

[00:43:25] which is the platform we're using right now, you might say, hey, bye.

[00:43:30] Yeah, I might send a text or I guess no one would know, so it wouldn't really matter.

[00:43:35] That'd be good with me.

[00:43:36] How many people know we're talking?

[00:43:38] Two.

[00:43:39] The friend I'd mentioned previously and then one of my aunts where I mentioned offhandedly

[00:43:44] after recommending the podcast, I'm like, oh, she's probably going to see me on there

[00:43:48] at some point.

[00:43:49] So I should probably let her know.

[00:43:51] Do you have that journal?

[00:43:54] It's right next to me, actually.

[00:43:56] I still use it to write down thoughts and I actually used it to go through that checklist

[00:44:01] she sent me.

[00:44:01] I know you've been to the hospital, I believe twice.

[00:44:05] I imagine given what you shared, the weight, the belt, the ice, the pills, the pills, the

[00:44:10] gas, the gas.

[00:44:10] I bet, I'm going to guess, very few people know about any of those attempts.

[00:44:14] No.

[00:44:15] At most, the one.

[00:44:17] Yeah.

[00:44:18] Very, very few people.

[00:44:19] Right.

[00:44:20] How many people right now, as we speak, do you have in your life to talk to and feel

[00:44:24] really comfortable or at least comfortable about sharing any of this kind of stuff?

[00:44:28] One or two.

[00:44:29] Probably just the one I met in the hospital.

[00:44:31] She knows a lot of things and I trust her a lot.

[00:44:35] Is she local?

[00:44:36] Yeah.

[00:44:36] She's really close to me, which I am so grateful for.

[00:44:40] A couple of minutes, we hang out very much and we go over to each other's houses when we're

[00:44:44] freaking out.

[00:44:44] A wonderful friendship.

[00:44:45] Yep.

[00:44:46] Is suicidal ideation these days like a 24-7 or every other day or what's the...

[00:44:52] 24-7.

[00:44:54] I don't remember a time where I haven't thought about dying.

[00:44:57] It's almost become a friend to me and I think that's part of where I struggle is just I've

[00:45:01] gotten so used to it.

[00:45:03] It's come down to almost a logic argument now, which is almost scarier than having it be a purely

[00:45:08] I want to die thing.

[00:45:09] It's like, I want to die because, because, because, because.

[00:45:12] Made a Wizard of Oz reference.

[00:45:13] It's embarrassing.

[00:45:14] We got to work Wizard of Oz somehow into the memoir title, but I don't know how.

[00:45:18] Bryn, memoir title, TBD, but we're working on it.

[00:45:23] You said something earlier and I don't even remember the context.

[00:45:26] It was very early in our conversation and you said, if things go badly.

[00:45:30] And I thought that's a possible memoir title.

[00:45:33] Yeah.

[00:45:34] That's a great memoir title.

[00:45:35] It's just like enough to get me really curious as the reader.

[00:45:40] And the cover will be a warning button.

[00:45:42] Fire in case of emergency.

[00:45:44] Let's see.

[00:45:44] Your memoir.

[00:45:45] I'm not an illustrator.

[00:45:46] I just do memoir titles.

[00:45:48] I don't help you with the writing.

[00:45:49] I don't help you with the fucking colorful photos and the covers.

[00:45:52] It's just not my jam, but we can outsource all that shit with the money neither of us

[00:45:55] have.

[00:45:56] Yeah.

[00:45:57] With the very poor funds.

[00:45:58] Did you ever, this is a weird question only in that, like most of the people who were

[00:46:02] supposed to help you didn't help you and at least in the medical community and elsewhere.

[00:46:06] And if any of them, cause you had one therapist that you seem to have liked for lack of a better

[00:46:11] word.

[00:46:11] Did any of them at some point give you a diagnosis that you think is accurate?

[00:46:15] Maybe more than one.

[00:46:16] Accurate.

[00:46:16] Major depression.

[00:46:18] Generalized anxiety.

[00:46:19] But other than that, I've got a good list of things I don't necessarily agree with.

[00:46:24] Yeah.

[00:46:24] Like BPD, which maybe it just doesn't really fit with my behavior.

[00:46:29] So I think that's more of like a stigma thing.

[00:46:32] Maybe social anxiety, I think just kind of goes into the generalized anxiety and bipolar,

[00:46:36] which no, it just doesn't really fit.

[00:46:39] But I don't know.

[00:46:40] I agree.

[00:46:40] Yeah.

[00:46:41] Yeah.

[00:46:41] Makes sense.

[00:46:42] Well, in your days, day to day, does anything help?

[00:46:45] Listening to this podcast and watching shows or playing games, honestly, it's a really

[00:46:50] awesome comfort to be able to listen to other people's stories.

[00:46:52] It's a great resource you've created.

[00:46:54] Thank you.

[00:46:55] You're very welcome.

[00:46:56] Thank you.

[00:46:57] When's your birthday?

[00:46:58] 21st of January.

[00:47:00] So we're like seven, eight weeks out.

[00:47:02] Yeah.

[00:47:03] So we'll see.

[00:47:04] Will we?

[00:47:05] I don't know.

[00:47:06] Think you'll hear this conversation?

[00:47:08] I'll probably be able to listen.

[00:47:09] I don't know if I'll make it to the point where it's released to have the opportunity

[00:47:13] to listen.

[00:47:14] If the audience is confused, I'd send Bryn this recording that it's unedited.

[00:47:18] I'll do that in the next day or two.

[00:47:20] But you're saying if it's released at some point.

[00:47:23] And I want you to hear it if you want to hear it.

[00:47:25] Some people don't give a shit.

[00:47:27] I would like to.

[00:47:28] It's a goal to make it to that point.

[00:47:30] Maybe one or two people in your life might want to also hear it and you'd be alive.

[00:47:34] So perhaps there's a little conversation around that.

[00:47:36] And then it's going to be out there for, I mean, not ever, but like we were talking earlier

[00:47:40] about sort of preserving or.

[00:47:42] At least some people will hear it.

[00:47:44] And that's good enough for me.

[00:47:46] What's your method this time?

[00:47:48] Because it sounds like you're planning.

[00:47:49] This time I'm going to take a whole bunch of pills.

[00:47:52] Just everything left of all the numerous prescriptions I've had over the years.

[00:47:57] Maybe some extra ones I order online.

[00:47:59] I'm going to do the bag.

[00:48:00] I'm doing three methods at once, basically.

[00:48:03] Yeah.

[00:48:03] The bag.

[00:48:04] And this time I'm going to make sure that I cannot move my hands.

[00:48:08] I will be out of it, drunk, overloaded, and there won't be a chance of escape.

[00:48:13] Because if it's going to work this time, I'm not going to stop attempting until it does.

[00:48:17] I don't want to see what the next four years look like for me.

[00:48:19] I feel like we've already kind of, these things come up organically, but specifically.

[00:48:24] And you know, I haven't asked every question, but the one about myths and misconceptions.

[00:48:28] Are there any, I'm sure there's a lot, but is there one or two that really stand out?

[00:48:32] That's like, nah, fuck that.

[00:48:34] Me too.

[00:48:34] Actually, I wrote this one down because I knew this one was important.

[00:48:37] That it's not preventable.

[00:48:38] It is an entirely preventable thing.

[00:48:41] There are some cases where it can be a harder fight than others.

[00:48:45] Sometimes it is just a chemical issue, but I think that with the proper resources and encouragement,

[00:48:51] every person can be saved.

[00:48:53] That's a bold fucking statement.

[00:48:56] Okay.

[00:48:56] These aren't, oh no, they died.

[00:48:59] They took their life.

[00:49:01] Oh, such a shame.

[00:49:02] There is so much we can do.

[00:49:04] Improving hospitals, getting better education, better therapy.

[00:49:09] Like there is societally so much we can do, financial aid.

[00:49:14] Like so much of these things are from outside sources, family or debt or management of medications

[00:49:22] or chronic pain, marginalization.

[00:49:25] All of those things are huge factors and they're all things we can change.

[00:49:29] Suicide is very changeable.

[00:49:31] And it's such a myth that it's like, well, I guess we just can't help you.

[00:49:35] Everyone can be helped.

[00:49:37] A lot of the times it is our society's fault that anyone resorts to suicide.

[00:49:41] It's a failure on our part.

[00:49:43] Wow. Interesting.

[00:49:44] What else do you want to share, Bryn?

[00:49:46] One extra thought.

[00:49:48] I don't know if it's a question you directly ask.

[00:49:50] I think it leads into like, do you have a support system?

[00:49:53] I think the way we react is to suicide.

[00:49:55] Because obviously the first time I went into the hospital, that whole thing where my parents didn't care.

[00:49:59] And afterward, on my second, I got a call from my parents in the hospital.

[00:50:05] Or I called them actually.

[00:50:07] They called me a couple times, but just like, hey, are you doing okay?

[00:50:09] I called them once because I wanted to see if I could do a residency program, but I couldn't afford it at the time.

[00:50:15] So I had the privilege at the time of being able to ask my parents for help.

[00:50:19] So I asked them if they could, if they had the opportunity, the means, and if they were willing.

[00:50:23] My mother's reaction was to yell at me over the next hour about how I was a miserable person to be around.

[00:50:29] How I'd never get better.

[00:50:30] And how I was an awful person for having done this.

[00:50:34] And that I needed to recognize all the things I'd done to put myself in this situation.

[00:50:39] After I slammed the phone and hung up after crying on the floor like a baby for hours.

[00:50:44] She called the hospital to try to get my right to my own medical care taken away.

[00:50:49] And to claim that I was unfit.

[00:50:51] When I told my grandma, not even a couple weeks ago, she's like, I won't tell your parents.

[00:50:56] I don't know if that really fits.

[00:50:57] So maybe whatever.

[00:50:59] But it's like an extra thing that show their own uncomfortability and disgust and shame and anger and confusion onto the person who is in pain.

[00:51:10] It's a thing that a lot of people deal with that I don't think it's talked about enough.

[00:51:13] Like, people react so aggressively to anyone who brings up anything like this.

[00:51:19] You can't be in pain.

[00:51:20] You're working a job.

[00:51:21] You go to school every day.

[00:51:22] Like, what the?

[00:51:23] I don't know.

[00:51:24] It's a little extra thing.

[00:51:25] No, it's not a little.

[00:51:26] Not a little thing.

[00:51:27] But you got the podcast to listen to, I guess, right?

[00:51:29] Yeah.

[00:51:30] They sound wonderful, honestly.

[00:51:31] Like, it's very relaxing.

[00:51:33] Hours every day.

[00:51:34] Just episode, episode.

[00:51:35] That is one of my big goals.

[00:51:37] Honestly, I'm like, oh, I really want to finish all these stories.

[00:51:40] Fascinating that the Suicide Noted podcast has become, whether it's listening to theirs or even waiting for yours, as a means to get through the day or the week as a little goal.

[00:51:51] It's fascinating.

[00:51:52] It was so helpful for going through work.

[00:51:54] Like, thank you so much, honestly.

[00:51:55] Like, it really was so nice to be seen like that by other people and to have an interviewer who is just, like, so understanding.

[00:52:03] It was, like, you really do an amazing job.

[00:52:06] And I'm really grateful.

[00:52:07] I'm happy I got the chance to talk to you.

[00:52:09] I didn't expect that it would be one soon or even possible.

[00:52:13] You honestly probably have done more for me than the five therapists I've been through.

[00:52:18] That says a lot about those therapists.

[00:52:21] And maybe Utah in general, which is where this thing started.

[00:52:24] I don't know about Utah.

[00:52:26] But, well, thanks for talking, Bryn.

[00:52:27] I really appreciate it.

[00:52:29] Anytime someone's really, like, actively planning and they're like, well, you know, reality is by next month, two months, probably not going to be here.

[00:52:36] So it's kind of like an awkward goodbye.

[00:52:39] Yeah, it's tough.

[00:52:40] I'm trying not to, but I mean, the election and knowing that their big platform is hating trans people, my medication, what I've already been through with violence.

[00:52:52] I just don't know if they have the energy to make it four years through that.

[00:52:56] It's getting worse.

[00:52:58] I'm going to try to get as far as I can.

[00:53:01] I don't know.

[00:53:02] I don't know if I can do it.

[00:53:04] Mostly, I just hope the rest of your year in Utah doesn't totally suck.

[00:53:10] Yeah, I'm doing the best I can to have fun, hanging out with friends, listening to this podcast.

[00:53:14] We'll see.

[00:53:15] Maybe go on a trip.

[00:53:17] You never know.

[00:53:18] Yeah, never know.

[00:53:19] World's unpredictable.

[00:53:21] All right, Bryn, I got to skedaddle.

[00:53:22] Thanks again.

[00:53:23] I'll talk to you soon, I hope.

[00:53:25] All right.

[00:53:25] Have a good day.

[00:53:26] Or ish day.

[00:53:26] Bye.

[00:53:27] Yeah, you too.

[00:53:28] Bye.

[00:53:31] As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support.

[00:53:34] And special thanks to Bryn in Utah.

[00:53:36] Thanks, Bryn.

[00:53:37] If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk,

[00:53:39] please reach out.

[00:53:40] Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or X at Suicide Noted.

[00:53:45] And you can check the show notes to learn more about this podcast,

[00:53:48] including our membership, as well as the Noted Network and its trainings and services.

[00:53:56] That is all for episode number 243.

[00:53:59] Stay strong.

[00:54:00] Do the best you can.

[00:54:01] I'll talk to you soon.