Andre in Ontario 🇨🇦

[00:00:00] I was crying, I remember that. I wasn't happy or sad, it was a, I'm done fighting, done feeling this way. I've got nothing left in the tank, so fuck it.

[00:00:50] Many of us, including me, we are not very good at it. So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors.

[00:00:59] In large part, to help more people in more places hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone.

[00:01:06] And yes, if I were to rename this podcast, it might be called A Little Less Shitty and A Little Less Alone Podcast.

[00:01:13] Now, if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out. Hello at SuicideNoted.com on Facebook or X at Suicide Noted.

[00:01:22] Of course, you can reach out for any reason. I love hearing from listeners.

[00:01:26] And you can check the show notes to learn more about this podcast, including our membership. We would love your support.

[00:01:32] But however you are involved or support, I really appreciate it.

[00:01:36] We are talking about suicide on this podcast, so keep that in mind, please, before you listen or as you listen.

[00:01:42] But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn. Before I introduce you to today's guest, I want to share something with you that I learned.

[00:01:50] I received an email maybe a couple of months ago or so from Patrick up in Ontario.

[00:01:56] And I want to share parts of Patrick's email with you all. Of course, he gave me permission.

[00:02:02] Patrick writes that he's not a suicide attempt survivor, but rather a suicide loss survivor.

[00:02:06] And he listens to the podcast often to get a better understanding of what might have been going through his partner's mind in the hours leading up to his suicide.

[00:02:14] His partner of 28 years killed himself in early 2023 after an eight month battle with anxiety and depression.

[00:02:21] Now, I should say Patrick does say some very nice things about the podcast and the work I'm doing.

[00:02:26] But that's not really the point or at least not the main point of what I'm sharing here.

[00:02:30] Patrick goes on to say that since my partner Paul's death, I have joined a closed support group as well as several online open groups via Zoom,

[00:02:38] taking part in two fundraisers and a community event to honor those who have died by suicide.

[00:02:42] In short, Patrick says, I have been in contact with roughly 100 people who have lost loved ones to suicide.

[00:02:48] Just today, I listened to the podcast where you talk with Francisco in Malawi and I have a comment to make.

[00:02:53] When discussing the myths of suicide, Francisco mentions that it's not selfish.

[00:02:57] Then you comment that that seems to be the general consensus, but that might change if you, meaning me, were talking to suicide loss survivors.

[00:03:03] He says that of the approximately 100 suicide loss survivors he has chatted with, only two have expressed the opinion that suicide is selfish.

[00:03:12] Both were fathers whose sons died by suicide and each of these fathers and their children were living very, very far away and they were not the primary caregivers.

[00:03:21] All the other people were intimately connected on a day to day basis with the victim and none claimed that it was selfish.

[00:03:27] He says, although we couldn't feel the pain they were experiencing, we saw it, we witnessed the tremendous efforts of the victim to carry on despite the pain.

[00:03:34] My partner put up a Herculean struggle and his death was definitely not selfish.

[00:03:38] He adds, however, the idea that suicide is selfish did arise in the three weeks leading up to the funeral.

[00:03:44] Many people asked me if I was angry at him for not continuing the struggle.

[00:03:48] Many alluded to his suicide as a selfish act, but, all caps, but, none of these people were present while Paul was undergoing his ordeal

[00:03:55] and they were, if anything, distant onlookers.

[00:03:58] No one who has lived with and witnessed the agony of the victim would claim it's selfish.

[00:04:02] He adds a quote from Paul McGregor, quote, but suicide isn't selfish.

[00:04:07] I've seen why suicide can feel like not just a choice, but the only choice, close quote.

[00:04:12] Finally, Patrick says, I trust that I'm not offending you.

[00:04:15] It's just that when you said that suicide loss survivors might see it as selfish, I winced.

[00:04:19] Only those far removed from the struggle and the suicide would say so.

[00:04:22] Patrick, I am so grateful that you sent that and I apologize for taking so long to share what you wrote with our listeners.

[00:04:31] And I stand corrected.

[00:04:33] And, you know, what's interesting is that I lost my best friend to suicide and never once, never once, even any tiny part of me thought that his choice, Jimmy's choice was selfish.

[00:04:44] Never.

[00:04:44] Never.

[00:04:44] And in my conversation with Francisco and others with respect to what Patrick brought up, I was exploring and speculating, which I think is important.

[00:04:55] And while I do know there are people that might feel that way, whether they are loss survivors or not, I think you all know how I feel about this subject or this question.

[00:05:06] I really do appreciate you sharing this, not only what you shared, but how you shared it.

[00:05:12] I find it so valuable and important to hear different perspectives.

[00:05:15] And frankly, even better when I don't necessarily feel the same way, though, in this case, I very much do.

[00:05:21] I understand that I implied otherwise.

[00:05:23] I invited a former guest, Elizabeth in Washington, who has also been helping me with the podcast for quite a while to also share her views.

[00:05:31] I think she's got some important things to say.

[00:05:34] And no, you're not imagining it in the background.

[00:05:36] You might hear a bird chirping or perhaps two.

[00:05:40] This is really great.

[00:05:41] Thank you, Patrick.

[00:05:42] I'm so glad I heard this because it is always good to hear about the many ways you, Sean, are doing this podcast in a very uniquely right and good, helpful way.

[00:05:53] And it's incredibly useful to hear from listeners about different perspective based on especially lived experience, because Patrick really exemplifies in his comments how to share a dissenting opinion in a respectful way, a way that encourages further dialogue.

[00:06:12] Because something I've heard you mention often, Sean, is that the world of mental health experts and commentators is filled with people that are really good at what you call conversation killers.

[00:06:29] I like to call them dialogue annihilators.

[00:06:32] And instead of doing that, Patrick responds concisely to something said in an episode that brought up a very strong reaction in him, one that compelled him to address it directly in a civil way.

[00:06:46] And this is exactly what we need more of, because it models how in a world of polarized opinions and extremism, we can actually invite one another to have better conversations about really hard things.

[00:07:02] I mean, because it's easy to jump on the bandwagon and take sides on issues that matter to us.

[00:07:07] But it's much harder to take time to thoughtfully reflect and find ways to share an opposing opinion without resorting to driving the wedge deeper by name calling or being condescending or character bashing or just pointing out how wrong the other person is.

[00:07:24] We're given a hotly debated and emotionally loaded topic.

[00:07:29] And that is, is it selfish to end your own life or not selfish?

[00:07:34] Most certainly, it's a subjective experience.

[00:07:37] One that is going to bring in almost an infinite number of variables that would affect an individual's opinion.

[00:07:45] So I'm not going to give mine because for me, the most important point to make here to focus on is that we can use this gift that Patrick has given us as a model example and an opportunity to encourage listeners to share their thoughts, feelings, ideas, and opinions here in such a way so that we can all learn and actually practice having more mature, more mature, thoughtful conversations about things that are really difficult to talk about.

[00:08:14] So thanks again, Patrick.

[00:08:16] And thank you, Sean.

[00:08:17] Yes, thank you again, Patrick.

[00:08:19] And thanks, Elizabeth.

[00:08:20] Today, I am talking with Andre.

[00:08:23] Andre lives in Ontario and he is a suicide attempt survivor.

[00:08:28] Hey, Andre.

[00:08:29] What's up, man?

[00:08:30] What?

[00:08:30] You?

[00:08:31] Where are you, by the way?

[00:08:32] Where do you live?

[00:08:32] Can you share?

[00:08:33] Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

[00:08:35] Ontario.

[00:08:36] Oh, a lot of Americans do not know that Ottawa is the capital of Canada.

[00:08:40] Yeah.

[00:08:40] Let's just be clear about that.

[00:08:42] I always rip on Americans.

[00:08:43] I probably, I'm going to lose a lot of listeners because I'm like, our Americans are dumb.

[00:08:48] That's not true.

[00:08:48] To be fair, it's not different.

[00:08:50] The only reason that we might know more about America is because it's a reality television show, pretty much.

[00:08:57] That is perfect.

[00:08:58] Keeping up with the Americans.

[00:09:00] Like what legislation passed today that allows more people to carry really dangerous, deadly rifles or AK-47s or whatever, right?

[00:09:08] What rights have been taken away?

[00:09:10] What rights have been given?

[00:09:11] Who got shot today?

[00:09:13] What school got shot today?

[00:09:15] And then our version of that for Canada.

[00:09:17] How many Canadians went on a nice walk today?

[00:09:20] How many Canadians?

[00:09:21] Who in Ottawa planted a garden?

[00:09:23] Like that's our weird way of seeing you all.

[00:09:26] Right now, fucking nobody.

[00:09:28] It is brutally hot right now.

[00:09:30] So it's great because my AC is disconnected and went down.

[00:09:34] Shit.

[00:09:35] The audience will not see you, but I want to share with them that Andre is not bald like me, but you know, he keeps his haircut pretty tight.

[00:09:44] It's pretty.

[00:09:45] Yeah.

[00:09:45] There's some balls.

[00:09:46] It's on its way.

[00:09:47] Why don't you, have you ever considered doing what I do and just shave that shit?

[00:09:50] I have, but there's a couple of moles on the back of my head.

[00:09:53] And when I shave, I usually forget that they're there and cut them and then they bleed forever.

[00:09:58] Oh, the mole issue.

[00:09:59] Right.

[00:10:00] Right.

[00:10:00] Yes.

[00:10:01] But, you know, glasses and beard, that's a good look.

[00:10:05] I mean.

[00:10:05] If you grew a beard, we could like body double.

[00:10:08] Well, there's a couple of things in common.

[00:10:10] Sure.

[00:10:11] We do reside in North America, apparently comfortable about talking about suicide.

[00:10:16] Oh, absolutely.

[00:10:17] And also we're wearing glasses.

[00:10:18] Now, my reading glasses are yours.

[00:10:20] No, because you're probably like 30.

[00:10:22] 33.

[00:10:23] Each eye has a different prescription.

[00:10:25] And one of them is to fix a lazy eye that I never actually got because I wear glasses.

[00:10:30] But it was on its way to being crooked.

[00:10:33] We don't want that.

[00:10:34] No, I'd like to be able to see in the direction I'm looking.

[00:10:37] If you live in the United States and you're keeping up with the Americans, maybe within

[00:10:41] a year or two, people with lazy eyes will be, I don't know, incarcerated.

[00:10:44] Who knows?

[00:10:44] I mean, just who knows?

[00:10:45] You don't know.

[00:10:46] There might be a fashion trend due to the lack of health insurance.

[00:10:48] I'm not wrong.

[00:10:50] I might be an asshole, but I'm not wrong.

[00:10:52] You're not wrong.

[00:10:53] I'll let the audience decide if you're an asshole.

[00:10:55] That's fair.

[00:10:56] I rarely, probably, if ever thought one of my guests was an asshole.

[00:11:00] Yeah, you might have to cut me off occasionally.

[00:11:03] Once I get comfortable, I never shut the hell up.

[00:11:06] Right.

[00:11:06] No.

[00:11:07] And also, I edit.

[00:11:08] I'll just edit some of you the fuck out.

[00:11:10] How do you think?

[00:11:10] What do you think of that, Ottawa?

[00:11:11] Perfect.

[00:11:12] Okay.

[00:11:13] So why are we talking?

[00:11:15] Because I was recently and previously and many other times on the verge of ending my own

[00:11:21] life.

[00:11:21] Mm-hmm.

[00:11:22] Most recently, I would say about two months ago, I walked into my doctor's office and

[00:11:29] like, so either you need to call an ambulance or we need to come up with a game plan that

[00:11:35] makes me comfortable enough to leave this room.

[00:11:38] We're going to go with game plan.

[00:11:40] Game plan.

[00:11:40] I didn't end up inpatient.

[00:11:42] I ended up outpatient.

[00:11:43] It was better than inpatient because everything gets taken away and you're there until they

[00:11:48] deem you capable of being out of there.

[00:11:51] My experience, I've never been inpatient, but certainly without patients, there's no,

[00:11:56] oh, it's done.

[00:11:58] Bye.

[00:11:58] They give you like a break and then they follow up and then they set you up with other

[00:12:02] programs and you can come back in a year if need be.

[00:12:05] I guess it varies from place to place or maybe just whatever, but sure.

[00:12:08] I think it's a level of advocation as well.

[00:12:11] Like if you don't push for it, which a lot of people won't because they're just not

[00:12:14] comfortable with the concept themselves, let alone having honest, earnest conversations

[00:12:18] with others about it.

[00:12:19] Andre the Advocate, no?

[00:12:21] I'd like to think so, at least for myself.

[00:12:23] I try to do it for others, but sometimes that's not your place.

[00:12:26] It just turns out to be that that's Andre Advocate AA.

[00:12:29] Have you ever had any experience with that?

[00:12:31] Not the program, but definitely the substance abuse of it.

[00:12:35] So why I'm here.

[00:12:37] Why are you here?

[00:12:38] The attempt before this one, I reached out to you talking about what a low place I was

[00:12:43] in and reached out to one of your viewers or not viewers, one of your participants in

[00:12:48] the podcast who has left his information in the episode.

[00:12:51] I forget his name, but he was like, reach out if anyone needs anything.

[00:12:54] And I did.

[00:12:55] And he gave me the nice long chat about things.

[00:12:57] And you sent some nice and supportive messages back when I was like, look, I'm in a low place.

[00:13:01] I'm not ready to be on the podcast.

[00:13:03] Kind of helped me through the last one.

[00:13:05] You're not dead.

[00:13:06] Not dead.

[00:13:07] And this time I figured I'd step up and tell my rambling 80 different tangents story.

[00:13:12] But why?

[00:13:13] Because your viewers and participants, no, not your viewers, your participants in the podcast

[00:13:18] have helped me.

[00:13:19] So why can't I throw my shit out there and see if someone else relates to it or finds a

[00:13:23] resource or doesn't pull the trigger that day because of it or whatever.

[00:13:27] Essentially throw your shit out there and see what sticks.

[00:13:31] Exactly.

[00:13:31] Sticky shit, if you will.

[00:13:33] Hashtag not a memoir title, but we'll figure that out.

[00:13:36] I have already picked one due to listening to your podcast.

[00:13:40] Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Andre.

[00:13:42] We need to get clear on something.

[00:13:44] I don't know if you know how I roll.

[00:13:47] I am the guy.

[00:13:49] If I don't pick it, I have final say over your memoir title.

[00:13:52] I know that sounds fucked up, but it's not impossible that your memoir title is the right

[00:13:58] one.

[00:13:58] So do you want to do that now or will it have a greater impact if we wait?

[00:14:03] Let's go through this and then at the end we'll compare.

[00:14:06] This is a first.

[00:14:08] I love firsts.

[00:14:10] Two months ago, low place.

[00:14:12] Other times in your life, low places.

[00:14:14] Yeah.

[00:14:15] I imagine the game plan you came up with your therapist two, two plus months ago didn't

[00:14:21] necessarily include having this conversation with a kind of stranger in the United States

[00:14:26] of America.

[00:14:27] No, not at all.

[00:14:28] It was more about getting me back to a point where dying doesn't seem like the better option.

[00:14:33] I still struggle with it every day.

[00:14:35] It hasn't gone away.

[00:14:36] I just have a few more tools in the belt to throw at it when I feel like reaching for

[00:14:41] something that could end me.

[00:14:42] You're 33.

[00:14:44] So, and I know you've got a lot to say.

[00:14:46] I'm going to let you say it all.

[00:14:47] Of course.

[00:14:48] Do you remember when you first started thinking about this in any way, like the idea of not

[00:14:53] being alive?

[00:14:54] I was eight.

[00:14:55] I remember being in the shower.

[00:14:57] I don't remember what the scenario was that led up to me feeling that way that day, but

[00:15:02] I can distinctly remember standing in the shower wishing I just wasn't there anymore

[00:15:06] or that I was someone else, which is a lot for an eight year old kid to try and process.

[00:15:10] So it doesn't get processed at the time.

[00:15:12] But it's coming.

[00:15:13] It's coming.

[00:15:14] There was lots of shit going on back then.

[00:15:16] It's not surprising that I would have felt that way.

[00:15:19] It's just kind of stark to now having my own kids around that age.

[00:15:23] It's stark to think that that's how young I was.

[00:15:27] How many kids do you have?

[00:15:28] I have three of my own and a stepson.

[00:15:32] So basically you fathered three children and now you have a second partner.

[00:15:38] And if you say stepchild, I imagine you're married?

[00:15:41] Was engaged.

[00:15:42] Our relationship's kind of topsy-turvy on the rocks sort of ever at the moment, but that

[00:15:47] doesn't mean you walk away from the kid.

[00:15:49] You know what I mean?

[00:15:49] When you talk about the shit in your childhood, I think that was the word you used.

[00:15:53] Do you want to share more?

[00:15:55] Not to get into all of it, of course, but what was the really hard stuff?

[00:16:00] Lots of substance abuse in and around my family.

[00:16:03] So witnessed a few overdoses.

[00:16:05] Watched my uncle overdose in my bathtub once.

[00:16:09] My dad left when I was four, apparently an alcoholic.

[00:16:13] He came back when I was 11 and died when I was 12.

[00:16:15] My brother was my most poignant abuser and my mother's.

[00:16:22] Both your and your mother's abuser.

[00:16:25] Yes.

[00:16:25] My mom had her own things with her dad and stuff like that and her siblings, but that's

[00:16:29] not my story to tell.

[00:16:30] But the only one I was physically there for was my brother.

[00:16:34] I was sexually abused by my male cousin.

[00:16:38] That was quite hard to deal with.

[00:16:40] And then my brother had some substance issues that led to him being quite an aggressive and

[00:16:45] violent person.

[00:16:46] I was drugged at a party once.

[00:16:48] That wasn't fun.

[00:16:49] There's more.

[00:16:49] I'm just not pulling it out right now.

[00:16:51] Well, you can add more later.

[00:16:53] It's a really good one minute summary of some of the shit I asked about.

[00:16:57] Had I not gone through my six week intensive therapy program, I'm not sure I would have

[00:17:01] been able to pull that all together in a minute for you.

[00:17:03] When was that?

[00:17:04] Like this is the second week where I've been out of it.

[00:17:06] Oh, okay.

[00:17:07] Right.

[00:17:07] So that was part of the game plan.

[00:17:09] Yeah.

[00:17:09] Part of the game plan was I was outpatient for six weeks, two half days.

[00:17:15] So it's essentially four days a week of intensive psychotherapy and the CBT work for eight hours

[00:17:20] a day.

[00:17:20] Wow.

[00:17:21] Sounds hard.

[00:17:22] It is.

[00:17:22] There's group therapy too.

[00:17:23] Yeah.

[00:17:24] It just makes me think of things that I tend to vent about on here that is probably boring

[00:17:28] for people at this point, but it's like-

[00:17:29] Hit me.

[00:17:30] Well, no, it's just the idea that not that nobody says what I'm about to say, but like, that's

[00:17:34] crazy.

[00:17:35] Crazy is not the right-

[00:17:36] Ah, fuck it.

[00:17:37] I'll say whatever I want.

[00:17:38] My goddamn podcast.

[00:17:40] Hit pause if you don't like my tone, wherever you are.

[00:17:42] I love you for listening, but you can pause if you don't like it.

[00:17:45] Do we hear often like how fucking, I don't know what the goddamn word, like, I don't know.

[00:17:52] We just applaud people for funny things.

[00:17:54] And do we applaud people or, and I thought you were looking for applause, but like, that

[00:17:58] is really hard.

[00:18:00] It's kind of a life and death situation.

[00:18:02] Yeah.

[00:18:02] And you're like showing up hours and hours and I'm, and it's hard.

[00:18:06] Like that's fucking amazing.

[00:18:08] Yeah.

[00:18:08] No, certainly wasn't throwing it out there for applause.

[00:18:10] I appreciate your candor and support behind it.

[00:18:15] Yeah.

[00:18:15] I know what you mean.

[00:18:16] When somebody's like a fucking really good athlete and we call them heroes.

[00:18:21] Yeah.

[00:18:22] I don't get that.

[00:18:23] Like, sure.

[00:18:24] If that same person and who's in, who's in a sort of unique position to help their community

[00:18:28] than that, that's rather heroic.

[00:18:30] Sure.

[00:18:31] But because you, you're a good soccer player or tennis player, like, cool.

[00:18:36] I mean, it's great to crush your, like to be good at something and make it your job.

[00:18:41] Yeah.

[00:18:41] Make your job.

[00:18:42] Your pageant is great, but by no means should you necessarily be labeled as a hero form.

[00:18:47] I think it makes me realize I'm stronger than I thought I was.

[00:18:51] I always think about when people take new meds or they go through a program and it doesn't

[00:18:56] help the way they imagine, then it could almost be worse.

[00:18:59] Yes.

[00:18:59] Have you dipped into that at all?

[00:19:01] Yeah.

[00:19:02] It's kind of, it's my second time going through that program.

[00:19:04] The first time I did it was the half day, which is only skills-based.

[00:19:07] It's just CBT.

[00:19:09] But this time I felt I'd do the full day, which adds four hours with a psychotherapist

[00:19:13] in the morning and it allows you to work through some stuff as a group and help each other out.

[00:19:19] That's the only place in that group where you could be, I don't think it's appropriate

[00:19:22] still, but where you become a hero is you can help each other.

[00:19:26] In those groups, if you were feeling suicidal, could you say so?

[00:19:29] Yes.

[00:19:30] Really?

[00:19:30] Okay.

[00:19:30] So you really could be completely honest and not necessarily get punished for it.

[00:19:34] Yeah.

[00:19:34] There was no punishment.

[00:19:35] There was, if you like told them that you were imminently going to do so, they would

[00:19:40] take you down to emerge and get you to the inpatient side or see if they can discharge

[00:19:44] you that day and have you come back to group the next day, but they would always make sure

[00:19:48] there's a plan.

[00:19:49] It'll get you through the next day where you can come in and talk about it in psychotherapy.

[00:19:52] The whole point was to be triggered in a place where there's someone to help you figure

[00:19:57] it out.

[00:19:58] So there are places to talk about it.

[00:19:59] I'm wrong.

[00:20:00] I don't think you're necessarily wrong.

[00:20:02] It's a very rare and interesting opportunity to have those programs available.

[00:20:06] I feel like I would benefit from that, frankly.

[00:20:08] That I certainly would think most people would, especially if you're in a low point.

[00:20:12] Yeah.

[00:20:13] So from eight years old to 33 years old, it sounds like from that, that you, I'm going

[00:20:20] to guess it was just up and down.

[00:20:22] Probably not down the whole time.

[00:20:23] Oh, certainly not down the whole time.

[00:20:25] In that time, I think it's about 25 years.

[00:20:28] And just as a historical reference point, this would have been starting a little before 9-11.

[00:20:34] I don't know why I like to do that.

[00:20:36] I just kind of like anchor myself in periods of time.

[00:20:39] Especially in North America, it's an anchor point for a lot of people's memories.

[00:20:43] Not that necessarily 9-11 had anything to do with your experiencing the world and your

[00:20:48] suffering or pain.

[00:20:49] From eight to 33, are you somewhat regularly ideating?

[00:20:53] Does it come in waves?

[00:20:55] It started out in waves.

[00:20:56] It would come and go, come and go.

[00:20:58] As I've gotten older, it's been more of like a constant drumbeat.

[00:21:02] For the last couple of years, it's just there.

[00:21:04] It's just gotten louder and louder and longer and longer.

[00:21:07] It just drones on and on now.

[00:21:09] Do you think it'll go away at some point?

[00:21:11] I don't.

[00:21:11] So it's really a matter of how to cope and deal with it and live with it.

[00:21:15] Yeah.

[00:21:16] Which is what that program is based on.

[00:21:18] It's not about fixing what happened or making everything okay.

[00:21:21] It's about building skills to deal with the next time you feel this way.

[00:21:25] One of my former guests has shared with me that she thinks of it as like learning to live

[00:21:31] with wanting to die.

[00:21:32] Perfect.

[00:21:33] Well, yeah, that has got to be her memoir time.

[00:21:36] That's a very good one, but it's not yours.

[00:21:38] And I'm still on a mission to figure yours out.

[00:21:41] Do you know how many suicide attempts and or like near attempts you actually have?

[00:21:45] Near attempts would probably be hard to count just due to their frequency and loose definition.

[00:21:52] But genuine attempts, I would say three.

[00:21:55] Yeah.

[00:21:55] Okay.

[00:21:55] Okay.

[00:21:56] When was the first one?

[00:21:57] I was about 1920.

[00:22:00] There's a specific area of town called Vanier, which anyone who knows this area will know

[00:22:05] what I'm talking about.

[00:22:07] Is there more to say about the area?

[00:22:09] The vibe?

[00:22:09] Trashy.

[00:22:10] One instance, and this will give you a perfect example of what type of neighborhood it at

[00:22:14] least was at the time.

[00:22:16] I once watched sex worker lift her skirt to a john to show her product right next to a bunch

[00:22:23] of kids getting off a school bus.

[00:22:24] Okay.

[00:22:25] That gives me a visual for sure.

[00:22:26] So what was going on in 1920?

[00:22:28] And what happened with the actual attempt?

[00:22:31] That was kind of around one of the times I had been sexually assaulted by another individual,

[00:22:37] not a family member.

[00:22:39] As you can see, I'm not a small guy.

[00:22:40] So if someone's capable of doing that to me, they're probably pretty big.

[00:22:44] I had a sense that you were a bit of a husky dude.

[00:22:47] About 260, 62.

[00:22:49] I'm not fighting you, Andre.

[00:22:51] Yeah, he did.

[00:22:52] He did.

[00:22:52] Yeah.

[00:22:53] That was kind of a low point for me.

[00:22:54] I was drinking really heavily at the time.

[00:22:56] My drink of choice was Jack Daniels and a lot of it every night.

[00:22:59] Weird question.

[00:23:00] Was that a kind of like passive suicide or not at all?

[00:23:04] I think it was more related to food insecurity.

[00:23:07] Growing up, there was a lot of times where there wasn't any.

[00:23:09] And you're a big guy to start with.

[00:23:11] Yeah.

[00:23:11] But when you're drinking a bottle of Jack a night, is that a kind of suicide?

[00:23:16] Oh, that absolutely.

[00:23:17] I would wake up and be like, well, shit, I'll try again tonight.

[00:23:20] And so you'd mentioned there were a lot of or many, even too many to count or remember

[00:23:25] near attempts.

[00:23:27] Yeah, I would kind of count those as like a near attempt.

[00:23:29] It's like passive.

[00:23:30] I'm not aiming for it, but if it happens, so be it.

[00:23:33] What was the actual attempt at 19 that you like sort of the first attempt?

[00:23:37] I had some prescription medication and chased it down with a bottle of Jack.

[00:23:42] And what happened?

[00:23:43] A lot of pain.

[00:23:44] I was informed by the paramedics that eventually showed up because my girlfriend at the time

[00:23:49] came to check on me because I wasn't responding to her.

[00:23:51] The specific meds I had decided to take, one weren't that type of medication, which I didn't

[00:23:57] know.

[00:23:57] I was 19 and drunk.

[00:23:59] Medications mostly are designed to just eat away at you slowly if you overtake them.

[00:24:04] So it's not like a 20 minute and you're done thing.

[00:24:07] It's like, oh no, your organs are going to fail over the next few days to weeks and then

[00:24:11] you'll die.

[00:24:12] Never did that again.

[00:24:13] Yeah, right, right, right.

[00:24:14] Well, two questions.

[00:24:15] So do you remember why?

[00:24:18] So you had been drinking a lot, right?

[00:24:19] Yeah.

[00:24:20] But on that particular day or evening, you added these pills.

[00:24:24] Yeah.

[00:24:24] Any idea why that night?

[00:24:26] Why then?

[00:24:27] I just remember being very manic and hysterical and crying a lot.

[00:24:32] I don't remember exactly what was going on.

[00:24:34] It was kind of hazy around that time, mostly due to what happened.

[00:24:38] It's kind of hard to pull some memories out of there.

[00:24:40] I just remember being very emotionally upset and unstable.

[00:24:44] So that's certainly how I felt at the time.

[00:24:46] I can't remember exactly why.

[00:24:48] And the insidious nature of alcohol, maybe one of the worst things to do when you're feeling

[00:24:53] that way is to drink a lot.

[00:24:55] But we do.

[00:24:56] It's fucking delicious.

[00:24:57] I mean, if it weren't, we wouldn't have the problems that we have with alcohol in the

[00:25:00] world.

[00:25:01] I mean, it tastes like shit, but it feels delicious.

[00:25:04] I actually love the taste.

[00:25:05] Well, yeah, if you do it, right?

[00:25:06] Yeah.

[00:25:07] And you do it enough.

[00:25:07] You acquire that shit fast.

[00:25:09] I think.

[00:25:10] If you do something often enough, you'll get used to it.

[00:25:13] And then it becomes something you enjoy.

[00:25:15] So did you go to the hospital?

[00:25:16] I imagine you did.

[00:25:17] Yeah.

[00:25:17] I was taken to the hospital.

[00:25:20] I wasn't given a choice.

[00:25:21] I was given a choice as to what hospital.

[00:25:23] What happened there?

[00:25:24] I ended up at a French hospital called the Montfort.

[00:25:26] Very nice to me.

[00:25:28] Right.

[00:25:28] Even though I was an English speaker, normally they treat English speakers like shit because

[00:25:31] it's a French hospital.

[00:25:32] Wow.

[00:25:33] If you go in to Quebec and you're from Ontario, some things are like branded differently because

[00:25:39] they're in Quebec.

[00:25:40] Like there's a brand of smokes that I used to use called Canadian Classic.

[00:25:43] If you go to Quebec, they're Quebec Classic.

[00:25:45] And then if I was like, can I have a pack of Canadian Classic?

[00:25:48] They'd be like, sorry, we don't carry those.

[00:25:49] Man, they know what you mean.

[00:25:50] You know what I'm fucking talking about.

[00:25:51] Okay.

[00:25:52] Right.

[00:25:53] Suck your shit up and hand me the pack of smokes you know I'm fucking talking about.

[00:25:56] Yeah.

[00:25:57] I'm going to give you money just giving my cigarettes.

[00:25:59] People talk about this with the French, whether they're French Canadian or French French.

[00:26:03] If you even talk about their culture or language, you'll fucking watch out.

[00:26:08] Very interesting.

[00:26:10] Fuck.

[00:26:10] Fuck.

[00:26:10] Oof.

[00:26:11] How do you feel about the French, Andre?

[00:26:13] Fuck.

[00:26:13] But isn't Andre a French name?

[00:26:15] Yeah, I'm French.

[00:26:16] Wait a second.

[00:26:17] So you speak French?

[00:26:18] No, not even slightly.

[00:26:20] My dad did, but he left when I was very young, so I did get a chance to learn it.

[00:26:24] But my entire heritage is French and indigenous.

[00:26:27] Oh, is that right?

[00:26:28] So to be clear, fuck them.

[00:26:30] Fuck them.

[00:26:31] Like, don't get me wrong.

[00:26:32] I have French friends.

[00:26:32] I love them.

[00:26:33] But when it comes down to that shit, fuck them.

[00:26:36] I don't know.

[00:26:37] Oh, I think you might be trying to goad me into thinking, fuck them is your memoir title,

[00:26:41] but I'm not biting.

[00:26:42] You know what?

[00:26:43] I respect that.

[00:26:43] That's not it.

[00:26:44] No, not even close.

[00:26:45] I've done this before.

[00:26:46] It's not my first rodeo.

[00:26:48] Who knows?

[00:26:48] By the end of this conversation, you might actually change your own memoir title.

[00:26:51] I don't know.

[00:26:52] That'd be lovely.

[00:26:53] I will send you a Canadian loony.

[00:26:55] Canadian loony.

[00:26:55] And of course, the book, if it's ever written, which chances are it won't be if we're being

[00:26:59] honest, right?

[00:27:00] I mean.

[00:27:00] Yeah, that's probably accurate.

[00:27:01] But if I at least write it down and make it like a manuscript or something, I'll send it to

[00:27:06] you.

[00:27:06] I'd love to see that.

[00:27:07] I mean, you could argue in a way these conversations are a kind of memoir.

[00:27:11] It's certainly a snapshot of my life up until this point, to an extent.

[00:27:15] How long were you in the hospital that first time after that attempt?

[00:27:18] A day and a half.

[00:27:19] Did you have to go to a psych ward or mental facility?

[00:27:22] No, I knew all the right things to say to be like, yeah, I'm fine.

[00:27:26] It was just a moment.

[00:27:29] Typical shit.

[00:27:30] Everyone who's been through it knows what to say to get the hell out of it.

[00:27:32] Sure.

[00:27:33] What's attempt number two?

[00:27:34] Attempt number two was around 2020, 2021.

[00:27:38] So about a decade goes by.

[00:27:40] Yeah.

[00:27:40] How would you characterize that decade in 20 words or less?

[00:27:45] Difficult, annoying, and a lot of alcoholics.

[00:27:48] Were you able to function, keep a job?

[00:27:51] Here and there.

[00:27:51] I had a pretty long run being like a superintendent building manager.

[00:27:56] Guy, you call it 2 a.m. to come fix your clogged toilet.

[00:27:59] Before that, I did snow removal, being on the shovel crew.

[00:28:02] That sucked.

[00:28:03] Working for 21 hours in a row, shoveling snow.

[00:28:06] Wow.

[00:28:07] This is Canada, right?

[00:28:07] Yeah.

[00:28:08] Back then it actually snowed.

[00:28:09] We had like two snowfalls this winter.

[00:28:11] Yeah.

[00:28:11] But global warming is totally not real.

[00:28:14] Ottawa was one of the coldest capitals in the entire world.

[00:28:16] And we had a green Christmas.

[00:28:18] Totally fine.

[00:28:19] Everything's fine.

[00:28:19] There's snowballs in Congress.

[00:28:20] It's fine.

[00:28:21] Just keep up with the Americans and then shut the fuck up.

[00:28:24] All right.

[00:28:24] So that's essentially your 20s.

[00:28:27] Yes.

[00:28:27] Leading up to 2020.

[00:28:29] A lot of 20s here.

[00:28:30] Oh, my son was also born in that time.

[00:28:32] Your first child.

[00:28:33] Yeah.

[00:28:34] He was born in 2014.

[00:28:35] And then when were the twins born?

[00:28:37] January 1st, 2020.

[00:28:38] Same woman?

[00:28:39] Two different women.

[00:28:40] All right.

[00:28:40] And the step is another woman?

[00:28:42] No, the step is the twins' mother's other son.

[00:28:45] What happened in 2020?

[00:28:46] Attempt number two.

[00:28:48] We are...

[00:28:49] Have we locked down yet?

[00:28:50] Yes.

[00:28:51] We had just locked down.

[00:28:52] What leads you to the point on the day that I hope you talk about to try?

[00:28:57] On that day, it was just a boiling point.

[00:29:00] I was a super at the time when everything locked down.

[00:29:03] I already had a son.

[00:29:04] I had just split up with my son's mother.

[00:29:07] So trying to find a place wasn't easy during lockdown for her.

[00:29:11] So we were stuck in the same house for most of the time.

[00:29:14] Due to the lockdown, schools closed.

[00:29:16] So I had to take care of my son more.

[00:29:18] And due to that, my employer felt I couldn't meet their job qualifications anymore

[00:29:22] and let me go and gave me seven days to find a new place.

[00:29:25] Oh, you lived there as well?

[00:29:27] Yeah.

[00:29:28] Part of the compensation was a three-bedroom apartment, hydro and cape, and internet.

[00:29:33] So what happened that week?

[00:29:35] That week, I told my boss to go fuck themselves.

[00:29:40] I have had that exact conversation a good number of times in my life.

[00:29:45] It feels good for a second, doesn't it?

[00:29:47] It felt great forever until I realized he was right to let me go because I was spiraling

[00:29:51] mentally.

[00:29:52] Like he saw things that you could not.

[00:29:54] No, he told me about them, but I just couldn't see them yet.

[00:29:56] Yeah, yeah.

[00:29:57] I get it.

[00:29:58] Sure.

[00:29:58] Sure.

[00:29:58] Like I have a greater respect for the conversation someone I had and him as a person in hindsight.

[00:30:04] I was like, it's a pandemic.

[00:30:06] I will be out when I'm out.

[00:30:08] I can't guarantee you I'll be out in a week.

[00:30:10] It is what it is, boss.

[00:30:12] This is an unprecedented situation.

[00:30:13] Can be prepared for an unprecedented timeline.

[00:30:16] And?

[00:30:16] He let it go.

[00:30:17] So you stayed there?

[00:30:18] For about a month and a half.

[00:30:20] You weren't homeless?

[00:30:21] I wasn't homeless.

[00:30:21] Where did you go?

[00:30:23] I was with my, the twins mother shortly around that time.

[00:30:27] She was one of the tenants at the place I was working and she wanted to get out of it.

[00:30:30] So we rented a place nearby.

[00:30:31] And then you tried to end your life?

[00:30:33] Yeah.

[00:30:33] Shortly after the relationship went downhill very quickly.

[00:30:37] It was realistically everyone being locked in together.

[00:30:40] You don't actually get to know someone before you move in.

[00:30:42] If you'd move that quickly.

[00:30:43] Yeah.

[00:30:44] I was already on a downward spiral, but didn't know it.

[00:30:47] At that time, she needed a lot of therapy, which only started very recently for her.

[00:30:51] So I ended up attaching a rope to some structure in my basement.

[00:30:55] And the reason I'm here is because that structure gave way.

[00:30:59] I blame it on the carpentry.

[00:31:01] So you don't blame it on some sort of like divine intervention?

[00:31:03] Fuck no.

[00:31:04] It's a house from the seventies and I'm a fat guy.

[00:31:06] It was old dry wood and me not finding it out.

[00:31:10] I feel like from what I've heard, and I don't, it's, I wouldn't say it's super common

[00:31:14] that I've heard people trying to end their lives by hanging sometimes, you know, but pills

[00:31:18] are like way more common.

[00:31:19] It often doesn't work.

[00:31:21] It breaks, uh, whatever.

[00:31:23] Yeah.

[00:31:23] You got to know what you're doing.

[00:31:25] I thought I did.

[00:31:26] Cause I've built many a structure.

[00:31:27] I've tied many a rope to many a knot.

[00:31:30] It was just not as secure as I thought it was.

[00:31:34] Were you, had you drunk before you did that?

[00:31:37] No, I'd been stopped drinking a couple of years earlier.

[00:31:40] Like I would drink occasionally, like at the Christmas party, I'd drink everyone under the

[00:31:44] table.

[00:31:44] I'd have like 24 rum and Cokes and I'd be walking around checking on everyone else's passed out.

[00:31:49] But the rest of the year I'd be sober.

[00:31:51] If there's an open bar, there's a happy Andre to attend.

[00:31:55] Just hanging out of the bar.

[00:31:57] Yeah.

[00:31:57] If you ever have a convention, I don't recommend an open bar.

[00:32:00] Right.

[00:32:01] Cause Andre's a big dude and you will, your alcohol is going to disappear.

[00:32:06] Well, also it's probably not a great idea for a suicide convention to have an alcohol

[00:32:10] tap.

[00:32:10] Oh, if I have a suicide convention, not sure I would call it that, but more importantly,

[00:32:16] well, I don't know what would be there in terms of alcohol and other things, but we've got options.

[00:32:23] Does your then live-in partner find out that you tried to end your life?

[00:32:27] Yes.

[00:32:28] What does she say or do?

[00:32:29] Nothing else.

[00:32:30] Now she's still in your life, right?

[00:32:32] Tragically.

[00:32:33] Might she hear this?

[00:32:34] She vaguely knows that I'm talking on a podcast because she wouldn't leave me alone about it

[00:32:38] until I gave her some information.

[00:32:39] I wouldn't tell her which one it was or what it was about.

[00:32:42] Inquiring minds want to know.

[00:32:44] Yeah.

[00:32:44] Well, unfortunately when it's for her, when it's none of your business, it isn't none of

[00:32:48] your business.

[00:32:48] How do you get through the attempt and then kind of go on with life?

[00:32:52] Kind of similar to what I did this time.

[00:32:55] So I ended up in the six week program for the half day going into seeing my social worker,

[00:33:01] psychologist, getting on medication, all that stuff.

[00:33:05] It was a long road to get back to the same spot.

[00:33:08] But yeah, I tried to tackle it head on, but I wasn't necessarily fully committing to it

[00:33:14] or going about it in a way that was actually productive.

[00:33:17] Started drinking again at that point.

[00:33:20] Started being really angry all the time.

[00:33:23] I tried to start my own podcast.

[00:33:25] You did?

[00:33:25] I did.

[00:33:26] Was it called The Angry Podcast?

[00:33:28] No.

[00:33:28] It was called Shattered Memories.

[00:33:30] I don't love it.

[00:33:32] I didn't either.

[00:33:33] I did when I was in the manic state.

[00:33:35] Are you bipolar?

[00:33:35] Bipolar?

[00:33:36] Bipolar too.

[00:33:36] I'm depressed more of the time than manic.

[00:33:39] What would you prefer?

[00:33:40] Two or three times I've been in full mania.

[00:33:42] Most of it's been hypomania, which is mania light.

[00:33:45] I would honestly go with mania because I got a lot of shit done.

[00:33:48] But I understand some people that it leads to like psychosis and all of these things and

[00:33:53] like really terrible decisions and like your comorbid conditions can make it a lot worse.

[00:33:59] Personally, me, I'd go with mania.

[00:34:00] So Shattered Memories?

[00:34:02] Yeah.

[00:34:02] It was a stupid fucking name.

[00:34:03] Well, I'm not ripping on the name.

[00:34:05] What was the concept?

[00:34:06] It was going to be yet another true crime book.

[00:34:09] Yeah.

[00:34:09] There are a lot of those.

[00:34:11] There was less at the time that I was considering it.

[00:34:13] Well, there's even less now because yours didn't work out.

[00:34:16] That's not necessarily a bad thing.

[00:34:17] No.

[00:34:18] My format's easy.

[00:34:19] Those formats are hard.

[00:34:21] Yeah.

[00:34:21] I spent a week and a half.

[00:34:23] I stayed up all night for like three days and wrote like 25 scripts.

[00:34:27] Mania?

[00:34:28] Yes.

[00:34:28] That is productive.

[00:34:29] I also spent $2,000 on a laptop, $1,000 on some podcasting gear, like the mic, the desk,

[00:34:37] the shit, all that.

[00:34:39] And I did nothing with it.

[00:34:40] Right.

[00:34:41] And if you're out there and you want to start a podcast, can you message me?

[00:34:44] Because I have a way cheaper way to do it.

[00:34:47] Maybe it's 10% less than the quality, but it's good enough for you.

[00:34:51] And put 10 to 20 episodes out before you upgrade, right?

[00:34:54] That is respectable.

[00:34:56] Just fucking do it a little bit.

[00:34:57] You might hate it, might realize it's not a great idea, or you might just not like the

[00:35:02] work itself.

[00:35:03] You got to like, at least at a minimum, not dislike.

[00:35:05] You were going to talk about crime.

[00:35:08] My spin on it would be someone with like severe mental health problems.

[00:35:13] They were the victim or the perpetrator?

[00:35:14] No, like me having mental health problems and like angry issues and violent tendencies

[00:35:19] talking about how I relate to those people.

[00:35:22] Well, so this is basically just Andre talking for a while?

[00:35:25] Yeah.

[00:35:25] It's pointless.

[00:35:26] It's stupid.

[00:35:26] Not stupid.

[00:35:27] Very hard.

[00:35:28] Very hard.

[00:35:28] And I am not that interesting.

[00:35:31] But you didn't know that then?

[00:35:32] No, I didn't.

[00:35:33] It is a hard one for someone to accept that they're not that entertaining.

[00:35:37] I'm glad you figured this out at 33 and not 60.

[00:35:40] Yes.

[00:35:41] I'm entertaining when I'm capable of like bouncing off of other people's enemies.

[00:35:45] Yeah, sure.

[00:35:46] Feeding into it and all of that.

[00:35:47] Yeah.

[00:35:48] I'm very quick-witted when it comes to responses and like throwing shit out there to make people

[00:35:52] laugh.

[00:35:52] But you just put me in a room with a microphone.

[00:35:54] I recorded one.

[00:35:56] It sucked.

[00:35:56] I would love to hear it.

[00:35:58] So I tried recording one and I was like, I suck.

[00:36:02] I don't make any sense.

[00:36:03] None of this is remotely entertaining what I'm saying.

[00:36:07] Right.

[00:36:07] Put down the pen on.

[00:36:08] Well, and also like six months later, there was 25,000 true crime podcasts.

[00:36:14] Yeah.

[00:36:14] Everybody started doing shit like that, right?

[00:36:17] Everyone had a podcast and an OnlyFans.

[00:36:19] Right.

[00:36:19] I didn't do the OnlyFans.

[00:36:20] I didn't take the OnlyFans route, but I am probably in the minority of people who still

[00:36:26] have a podcast because I started mine in the summer of 2020.

[00:36:29] Yes, I was already listening.

[00:36:31] You were?

[00:36:31] And I hear this on your podcast a lot.

[00:36:33] I was looking for like podcasts about like the acts of suicide, like people talking about

[00:36:38] like what they do and like how they ideate and rumination and all that stuff.

[00:36:43] And the only thing I could find was you.

[00:36:45] No offense.

[00:36:46] That's music to my ears.

[00:36:48] I mean, it's a shame that I'm the only one, but, and I still think that's the case.

[00:36:51] I don't think there's anything.

[00:36:53] There's no one else worth listening to.

[00:36:55] Well, that's kind of you.

[00:36:56] But more importantly, there's just no one who's doing the format of just simply having

[00:37:00] conversation, not simply, but you know what I mean?

[00:37:02] Like having a conversation and they can say anything they want.

[00:37:05] The closest you'll get to that is some channels on YouTube, but they're all selling a fix.

[00:37:09] So it's not at all the same.

[00:37:10] That's what I mean.

[00:37:11] But that's the closest you'll get.

[00:37:13] Conversating with people who are like quote unquote professional talking about these things.

[00:37:17] But at the end of every episode, they're like for only $45.99 a month, you can subscribe

[00:37:22] to my thing that'll fix you in three weeks.

[00:37:24] Fuck off.

[00:37:24] Fuck off.

[00:37:25] Fuck off French and fuck off them.

[00:37:27] And if they're French and they're doing that, double fuck off.

[00:37:30] True, but I would rather deal with the French.

[00:37:31] So you go to this program after attempt number two, and then I know we're going to attempt

[00:37:36] number three.

[00:37:37] I do want to ask one question before that.

[00:37:40] Either of those attempts at 19 or around 30 or whatever that age was, upon reflection,

[00:37:46] did you want to die?

[00:37:47] The one in 2020, 2021, just a few years ago, I wanted to die.

[00:37:51] So when you don't die and it breaks and you realize this isn't working and you want to die,

[00:37:57] why don't you then try to kill yourself again?

[00:37:59] Because it would have taken some time and effort and my son would be getting off the bus before I

[00:38:03] would have time to do it.

[00:38:05] I see.

[00:38:05] And I didn't think that was fair to him.

[00:38:08] It's not fair for him to come home and potentially be the one to find me either, but I assume she would,

[00:38:13] which was slightly intentional.

[00:38:14] The other question around that, it's kind of similar, but I'm not asking so much about the earlier one because

[00:38:20] there was alcohol and alcohol makes you fuzzy and all that shit.

[00:38:24] Yeah.

[00:38:24] But with this one, you walk down to the basement.

[00:38:28] The moments before, I'm always trying to figure out, are you calm as you're putting the rope up?

[00:38:34] Are you excited?

[00:38:36] Are you scared?

[00:38:37] I was crying.

[00:38:38] I remember that.

[00:38:39] I wasn't happy or sad.

[00:38:42] It was, I'm done fighting, done feeling this way.

[00:38:46] I've got nothing left in the tank.

[00:38:48] So fuck it.

[00:38:49] And then your son comes home and it's like, but you still don't have anything in the tank.

[00:38:53] It's not going to just change.

[00:38:55] No, I don't have anything left in the tank, which makes me at the time of rather volatile parents

[00:39:00] emotionally, which isn't helpful for him at that time.

[00:39:04] It's much, much, much better now, given some more therapies, some different medications

[00:39:09] and the second round of that group with the full psychotherapy part of it.

[00:39:14] But that happened after the third attempt.

[00:39:16] You could almost classify the third attempt as an almost because I didn't actually get to the moment.

[00:39:22] I walked into my doctor's office.

[00:39:24] It was like, I am not safe to leave without a plan or in an ambulance.

[00:39:28] Right.

[00:39:29] And you did the plan, which included the outpatient, intensive.

[00:39:34] Had you thought about method for attempt number three or almost attempt number three?

[00:39:38] Oh, yeah.

[00:39:39] Lots of different solid options.

[00:39:41] I was thinking I could use, I still have the rope.

[00:39:45] I could use that.

[00:39:46] I live in, there's forest behind the house I live in.

[00:39:49] It was like, I could go find a nice sturdy tree that fucker ain't going to give.

[00:39:52] I could swerve in the traffic, but then you're doing that to someone else.

[00:39:56] It's the only reason that I don't do that.

[00:39:58] And even if you're aiming for a post, it's possible like shit happens.

[00:40:01] Other people get hit by stuff.

[00:40:02] It's not anyone else's problem, but I don't want to live.

[00:40:05] I looked into getting a gun.

[00:40:06] And it's a lot of red tape and shit.

[00:40:08] One of the few benefits of being in America, you can go to your local fucking convenience

[00:40:13] store and buy a pistol and shoot up a high school.

[00:40:16] That's so you know, okay?

[00:40:17] Depending on the state.

[00:40:18] I know it's not like that.

[00:40:19] But I think in some places it actually is.

[00:40:21] Well, you can certainly go to gun shows.

[00:40:23] Easily.

[00:40:23] In and out, quick.

[00:40:25] Here, you need special permits to even own a pistol.

[00:40:29] It has to be stored at a firing range.

[00:40:31] You don't get to keep it unless you're out of the city or have a special permit for work

[00:40:36] or whatever.

[00:40:38] There's so many different safety procedures and requirements, like a locked safe and all

[00:40:43] this shit.

[00:40:44] Months and months of paperwork and background checks.

[00:40:47] For better or worse?

[00:40:48] Maybe better.

[00:40:49] For in certain ways, better.

[00:40:50] In certain ways, worse.

[00:40:51] Yeah.

[00:40:51] Like most things.

[00:40:52] I don't think there's any one right answer to that dilemma in either direction.

[00:40:57] I think it's somewhere in the middle.

[00:40:58] Mental health screenings and background checks should be a no-brainer for most people if

[00:41:04] they think about the concept of a firearm.

[00:41:06] No one wants a crazy person who's got a violent history possessing a firearm.

[00:41:12] It doesn't matter what side of the aisle you're on.

[00:41:14] It's just divisive politics that lead us to fight.

[00:41:17] They're pitting us against each other for their own benefit.

[00:41:19] That's the only reason 90% of people would probably agree with people with mental issues

[00:41:23] and violent history shouldn't have guns.

[00:41:25] It doesn't matter if you've got purple hair or a MAGA hat.

[00:41:29] You'll probably agree with that concept.

[00:41:31] Yeah.

[00:41:32] When you say you ideate a lot, does that mean that you think about the things you were just

[00:41:37] describing about swerve?

[00:41:38] Does it get so specific where I'm going to swerve into traffic or maybe I'll pursue the

[00:41:44] gun route or something else?

[00:41:45] Yeah.

[00:41:46] Like I'm currently holding like a pencil and I've been thinking about what area would

[00:41:51] be best to stick it through.

[00:41:53] Can you not do that one when we're talking?

[00:41:56] You don't want me to do that while we're talking?

[00:41:58] I would appreciate it, but you know, I can't prevent you from doing what you choose to do.

[00:42:03] I will at least wait until we sign off and then I will slam my head down onto the pencil.

[00:42:09] I don't believe you.

[00:42:10] Correct.

[00:42:10] I'm not going to do that.

[00:42:11] That sounds horrible.

[00:42:12] What if I live?

[00:42:13] Oh, that's the angle.

[00:42:15] I got you.

[00:42:16] Number two pencil?

[00:42:17] Yes.

[00:42:18] I could live and have lead poisoning.

[00:42:20] Great.

[00:42:20] I think I need to pick a more solid method.

[00:42:22] I'm not going to comment on that, but yes.

[00:42:24] So you've been listening to the podcast for years.

[00:42:26] Yes.

[00:42:27] Since my second attempt, which by the way, we were talking about podcast titles.

[00:42:31] Thought yours was great.

[00:42:32] You like suicide noted?

[00:42:34] Yeah.

[00:42:34] Cause I was in the middle of writing a suicide note.

[00:42:36] I was like, that's fucking clever.

[00:42:37] Yeah.

[00:42:37] Well, the one thing where I think it doesn't work and, but I'm not going to change it is

[00:42:41] like, I think people think it's just me talking about like people's suicide notes or reading

[00:42:45] them.

[00:42:45] Which is what I thought.

[00:42:46] Yeah.

[00:42:47] That's why I've liked the title, but I think it could be a little misleading.

[00:42:51] Personally, I'd leave it because it's been a very constant thing that I've heard on your

[00:42:55] podcast that people are like, I was looking for something about people talking about suicide

[00:43:00] and then it on your podcast accidentally.

[00:43:04] So let them think that because then they end up on your podcast and it's actually helpful.

[00:43:08] Yeah.

[00:43:08] Okay.

[00:43:09] Noted.

[00:43:09] Um, your, um, soon to be ex knows we're talking.

[00:43:12] She's not sure what does anybody else know what we're talking about or your best friend

[00:43:17] knows we're talking and he knows we're talking about this or she, she, she, she's someone

[00:43:21] you can talk to.

[00:43:22] Oh yeah, absolutely.

[00:43:23] She's not the only person I can talk to, but she's the one I can talk to about anything.

[00:43:27] Wow.

[00:43:28] That's a gift.

[00:43:28] Her and I have been through a lot of ups and downs together.

[00:43:31] We met in the guidance counselor's office in grade seven.

[00:43:34] No way.

[00:43:35] Yeah.

[00:43:36] Yeah.

[00:43:36] No, it's the, it's the type of friendship where you say you need help and someone's on

[00:43:43] a plane or in the car in the next 10 minutes and you're there.

[00:43:47] The people you will go through hell and back for and have been through hell and back with.

[00:43:50] They're not easy to find, but hold onto them if, if, if you do.

[00:43:53] So she knows about your attempts, I assume.

[00:43:56] Yes.

[00:43:56] She knows.

[00:43:57] It was, she's been part of all of those things.

[00:44:00] Other people know about any of the attempts?

[00:44:02] A few people, uh, obviously anyone who was in that group, but we all sign paperwork saying

[00:44:07] we won't talk about each other's shit or names or whatever, just because it gives people

[00:44:12] a bit more freedom to speak candidly.

[00:44:14] But yeah, I don't necessarily go around broadcasting it, but if someone asks or I hear someone talking

[00:44:19] about something very similar, I'll absolutely throw my two cents and then be like, Hey, I felt

[00:44:52] that way.

[00:44:54] So I'm on like super low doses that aren't actually supposed to do anything, but they're

[00:44:57] helping a little bit, which is evident statement of how sensitive I am to medication sometimes.

[00:45:02] Maybe you're just a super sensitive guy in general.

[00:45:05] Oh, I am.

[00:45:05] I cry like a bitch.

[00:45:06] It's not even funny.

[00:45:07] Cry like a bitch.

[00:45:08] Uh, not the memoir title.

[00:45:10] Uh, no, but not a bad one.

[00:45:12] Not a bad one.

[00:45:12] I might want to read more.

[00:45:14] That's the goal of a title.

[00:45:16] Exactly.

[00:45:17] And then we're not even, we haven't even gotten to the whole subtitle thing.

[00:45:20] Cause that's a whole other like big.

[00:45:23] That's, that's an entire other thing.

[00:45:24] That could be its own podcast.

[00:45:26] Yeah.

[00:45:28] Subtitled.

[00:45:28] Not a great title for a subtitle podcast.

[00:45:31] It's better than my title for a podcast.

[00:45:33] Well, yeah.

[00:45:34] To be fair, there isn't much that isn't.

[00:45:36] I just want to imagine the logo of shattered memories.

[00:45:39] Cause all I'm thinking about is like glass or mirror breaking.

[00:45:44] Yeah.

[00:45:44] That was kind of it.

[00:45:45] Like it was very, nothing was spectacular.

[00:45:48] Colorful.

[00:45:49] Yeah.

[00:45:49] It was like day glow kind of.

[00:45:51] Yes.

[00:45:52] Yeah.

[00:45:53] It was so dumb.

[00:45:55] So generic.

[00:45:56] Yes.

[00:45:56] It's so, so, so uniquely generic.

[00:45:59] Generic is good though.

[00:46:00] Mine's pretty generic.

[00:46:01] I mean, shit.

[00:46:02] Yours is, it's the content that's different.

[00:46:04] It's not, it doesn't matter.

[00:46:06] It's not what your fucking logo is.

[00:46:07] People will come.

[00:46:07] Does anything help you feel less shitty?

[00:46:10] Laughing at really horrible shit.

[00:46:12] I love the fact that often, not always, I get to laugh with my guests and we're talking

[00:46:19] about suicide.

[00:46:20] Being able to talk while also being honest and real about a very heavy topic is honestly

[00:46:25] quite more cathartic to me than writing it down or talking about it with a therapist.

[00:46:30] Being able to just commiserate for a moment and move on and laugh.

[00:46:34] Far more beneficial to me.

[00:46:36] Pink and purple pill because I was inspired by your logo.

[00:46:39] I give you the pill.

[00:46:41] I usually get, I used to give people two options.

[00:46:43] You either take it right now or you throw it out or you just, it doesn't work anymore.

[00:46:46] I've changed that.

[00:46:47] Here's what happens.

[00:46:48] You take it.

[00:46:50] You softly, sweetly go to sleep.

[00:46:52] No pain.

[00:46:53] You die in your sleep and no one will know it's a suicide.

[00:46:57] Three options.

[00:46:58] Take it, save it, or discard it.

[00:47:02] I would take it.

[00:47:03] Right now?

[00:47:04] Yeah.

[00:47:05] You wouldn't even say goodbye to me, motherfucker?

[00:47:07] I said bye.

[00:47:08] There you go.

[00:47:10] Do you not want to be alive?

[00:47:12] Not even slightly.

[00:47:13] Not at all.

[00:47:14] When's your birthday?

[00:47:15] January.

[00:47:15] We'll go January.

[00:47:16] Sure.

[00:47:16] Are you going to make it to your next birthday?

[00:47:18] That's the goal.

[00:47:19] Do I think I will?

[00:47:21] Kind of 50-50.

[00:47:22] So if I emailed you for your birthday and said, happy birthday, Andre, which I won't be doing,

[00:47:27] you may or may, I'm not, I'm just, I just, I know I'm not going to do that, but you may

[00:47:32] or may not be able to actually read what I've sent.

[00:47:35] Correct.

[00:47:36] Because you wouldn't be alive.

[00:47:37] My instinctual reaction was hopefully, like hopefully I won't be.

[00:47:40] You know, it's interesting.

[00:47:41] I think about how people live their lives day to day, even like moment to moment feeling

[00:47:47] this way.

[00:47:47] How do you brush your teeth?

[00:47:49] How do you play with your kids?

[00:47:52] Do you, do you work these days?

[00:47:53] Currently I'm off rehabbing my knee because my kneecap's out of place.

[00:47:58] Like, how do you do that?

[00:48:00] You know what I mean?

[00:48:01] How?

[00:48:01] It's very confusing because like, if I have like an ache or a pain or a lump or something,

[00:48:06] I'll run to the doctor and get checked out.

[00:48:09] But at the same time, if it's me on my own terms, deciding to punch my own ticket, can't

[00:48:15] wait.

[00:48:15] But if I'm going to be here, I might as well be here and actually do it.

[00:48:20] It's a dichotomy.

[00:48:21] It's the yin and yang of my existence.

[00:48:23] I don't want to be here, but if I'm going to be, it might as well be fucking adorable.

[00:48:27] Yeah.

[00:48:28] By the way, if your memoir title is the yin and yang of my existence, I may need to end

[00:48:32] this call right now.

[00:48:33] No, I haven't said the title I have planned yet.

[00:48:36] No, I know.

[00:48:37] And it's coming soon.

[00:48:38] And I've already kind of given up on trying to guess it because I'm just in over my fucking

[00:48:42] head again.

[00:48:43] Well, let's be realistic.

[00:48:44] I'm not great at picking titles.

[00:48:46] Yeah.

[00:48:46] And I am.

[00:48:47] So we're probably very far apart.

[00:48:49] Yeah.

[00:48:50] I'll probably end up going with yours.

[00:48:51] Thank you.

[00:48:52] I have one, Andre.

[00:48:53] I've pitched a few.

[00:48:54] I don't really like any myths or misconceptions you would like to dispel right here, right

[00:49:00] now.

[00:49:01] That it's cowardly.

[00:49:02] I don't think there's anything cowardly about having the bravery to take your own life.

[00:49:06] Not that it's a good choice necessarily given the circumstances or anything like that, but

[00:49:11] I don't think there's anything cowardly about having the balls to do that, that it's selfish.

[00:49:15] 90% of people that I've heard talk about it don't go into it thinking that everyone

[00:49:21] will be worse off without them.

[00:49:22] And it's, they'll be better off without me.

[00:49:24] And it's selfish for them to keep going and be a burden to everyone around them, even

[00:49:29] if they're not going to be.

[00:49:30] Perception, man.

[00:49:31] Well, that's the fucking hard part of it.

[00:49:33] You have to actually think you're worth something to be worth something.

[00:49:36] That's right.

[00:49:37] And you don't?

[00:49:38] I struggle with it.

[00:49:40] Yeah.

[00:49:41] Worth at least one Canadian dollar.

[00:49:43] Probably more.

[00:49:44] Before I ask you to add anything else that's on your mind, because you said you had 80 tangents,

[00:49:51] do you think now is the right time to reveal to both me and our listeners around the world

[00:49:57] what your damn memoir title is?

[00:49:59] Sure.

[00:50:00] Let's go with it.

[00:50:00] It's something I've said every time I do something wrong or I'll just be like, ah,

[00:50:06] mistakes have been made.

[00:50:07] So say it again.

[00:50:08] And is there a subtitle?

[00:50:09] Mistakes have been made is the title.

[00:50:12] Yes.

[00:50:12] Is there a subtitle?

[00:50:13] You got to work it out.

[00:50:14] Or maybe you don't have one at all.

[00:50:15] I don't think I have one.

[00:50:16] I think it's just mistakes have been made.

[00:50:18] I like it.

[00:50:20] Mistakes have been made.

[00:50:21] Some of which we've talked about.

[00:50:24] Some of which, yes.

[00:50:25] We can't talk about everything if we're being realistic.

[00:50:29] However, are there things that you want to add to this conversation?

[00:50:34] Whether you feel like they fit in or not, just stuff you want to say may help people who are

[00:50:39] listening.

[00:50:39] Who knows?

[00:50:40] Well, I talked about my brother a little bit being one of my largest abusers and enablers

[00:50:44] of other people.

[00:50:46] He passed away in December.

[00:50:48] I don't know how I feel about that.

[00:50:50] I would just throw it out there to people who are going through something similar where

[00:50:53] someone who's done a lot of negative things to you, if they die and you don't know exactly

[00:50:57] how to feel about it, that's okay.

[00:50:59] I got a lot of flack at this memorial.

[00:51:01] A lot of my family was like, well, why didn't you get up and say something?

[00:51:04] I was like, neither did you.

[00:51:05] Are you planning?

[00:51:06] Constantly.

[00:51:07] But my specific plan at the moment, I've got a lot of knives and down the road,

[00:51:12] not across the tracks.

[00:51:14] I got a nice big bathtub too.

[00:51:16] I'm a big guy.

[00:51:17] I might feel that.

[00:51:18] A lot of blood.

[00:51:19] Mm-hmm.

[00:51:20] What's the next best thing?

[00:51:21] I got a nail gun.

[00:51:22] That's not going to do it.

[00:51:24] So the next best thing is a knife and hope for the best or the worst, depending on how

[00:51:29] you want to look at it.

[00:51:30] It'd be nice if you could just go somewhere and die peacefully with some dignity, as they

[00:51:34] say.

[00:51:34] Well, they're working on that here nowadays.

[00:51:36] You can do medical assisted.

[00:51:39] A lot of hoops to jump through.

[00:51:40] True.

[00:51:41] There's some questionable qualifying criteria.

[00:51:44] There's some things that should be qualifying criteria that aren't.

[00:51:47] But you know, if I ever meet the criteria, there's my purple or pink and purple pill or

[00:51:52] whatever the hell it is.

[00:51:53] Oh, no, it's not whatever the hell it is.

[00:51:55] It's a pink and purple pill.

[00:51:57] I got it right.

[00:51:58] Yeah, you got it.

[00:51:59] You eventually got it right.

[00:52:01] That's fine.

[00:52:02] People have asked me why those colors.

[00:52:04] There is no reason.

[00:52:05] Not everything has to have a fucking reason.

[00:52:06] Why do you want to kill yourself?

[00:52:07] I just don't want to live.

[00:52:09] And fuck off.

[00:52:10] Mistakes have happened.

[00:52:11] Fuck off.

[00:52:12] There's my subtitle.

[00:52:13] There it is.

[00:52:14] It takes time to work through it and figure it out, Andre.

[00:52:17] But we got there.

[00:52:18] I love it.

[00:52:19] How is this not my job?

[00:52:21] No, but you're good at it.

[00:52:22] How is it not my job?

[00:52:24] People get paid for all kinds of things that have way less value.

[00:52:28] Yeah.

[00:52:29] Like you could easily look for a publisher and just like read someone's synopsis.

[00:52:32] But like, here's their memoir title.

[00:52:33] There you go.

[00:52:34] Yeah.

[00:52:35] Contract basis.

[00:52:35] Here we go.

[00:52:36] Man, Andre, if you know a publisher, please reach out on my behalf.

[00:52:39] Just at least an introduction.

[00:52:41] What's the rest of your day like?

[00:52:42] I got to go check my van because I fucking sprung a leak this morning in the coolant.

[00:52:48] So I'll drop that off the garage.

[00:52:50] So I got to go get that.

[00:52:51] Pick up my kids, which in a heat wave is not fun if you don't have a car.

[00:52:56] And deal with my ex because we currently still cohabitate.

[00:52:59] Got it.

[00:53:00] I see.

[00:53:00] I see.

[00:53:01] So a question.

[00:53:02] And that is when this podcast comes out sometime in August, you think you'll listen

[00:53:07] to it?

[00:53:08] I will probably listen to it, but not right away.

[00:53:12] And do you think you'll let anyone know about it?

[00:53:15] Maybe you're one.

[00:53:15] At least you're one friend.

[00:53:16] I would imagine.

[00:53:18] My one friend.

[00:53:18] I'll send a link and be like, here you go.

[00:53:20] Fuck.

[00:53:21] Listen to this and tell me how stupid I sound.

[00:53:23] Thank you.

[00:53:23] And you can say that to her because you guys get each other very well.

[00:53:27] Yes.

[00:53:27] She'll know exactly what you mean.

[00:53:29] And she'll probably end up saying some kind of nice things, but do it in a super authentic

[00:53:33] way.

[00:53:34] And you'll be like, okay, thanks.

[00:53:35] I believe you.

[00:53:37] We have had conversations.

[00:53:40] I'm like, while what you have to say isn't going to necessarily change my mind, it will

[00:53:45] definitely be something I take into consideration.

[00:53:47] More highly than most other people's opinions.

[00:53:50] Like if I would have suggested a different memoir title.

[00:53:53] Yeah.

[00:53:53] Then you would receive my subtitle.

[00:53:56] That's perfect.

[00:53:57] Right.

[00:53:57] We're not changing that damn thing there.

[00:54:00] No, it's perfect.

[00:54:01] Slightly eloquent and aggressive, just like me.

[00:54:04] Have you ever, it's just a title though.

[00:54:06] There's no content.

[00:54:07] Correct.

[00:54:07] There's no content yet.

[00:54:09] I think I'm too young to have a proper memoir.

[00:54:11] I don't know.

[00:54:12] Yeah.

[00:54:12] Like if I, if I come up with like a expiration date, which is an interesting way to put it.

[00:54:17] If I come up with like a self-expiration date, maybe I'll start writing something.

[00:54:21] Yeah.

[00:54:22] I'm sure something out there exists like this, but actually, I mean, people do this with

[00:54:26] terminal illnesses fairly often, but with suicide, it's a little different, right?

[00:54:30] So like, you know, it's going to be December 31st.

[00:54:33] So you just start writing it.

[00:54:35] Yeah.

[00:54:35] And like the last chapter can be what I'm feeling while I die.

[00:54:39] But actually, because it won't come out until after you're dead, you might start with that.

[00:54:44] That's true.

[00:54:45] You could play with starting with the last day.

[00:54:48] You know, these are just structural choices.

[00:54:50] Kind of like a Scorsese movie where they show you what's happening at the end and then

[00:54:54] jump backwards in time.

[00:54:55] Right.

[00:54:56] All right.

[00:54:56] Mr. Andre in Ottawa.

[00:54:58] Thank you for talking with me.

[00:55:01] No problem.

[00:55:01] Thank you for having me.

[00:55:03] Of course.

[00:55:03] My genuine pleasure.

[00:55:05] And I think we're done.

[00:55:07] Are we done?

[00:55:08] I think we're done.

[00:55:09] I hope your day is decent.

[00:55:10] I hope yours is as well.

[00:55:12] Bye.

[00:55:12] Bye.

[00:55:15] As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support and special thanks to

[00:55:19] Andre up in Ontario, Canada.

[00:55:21] Thanks, Andre.

[00:55:22] If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, please reach out.

[00:55:26] Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or Twitter slash X, at least for now at Suicide Noted.

[00:55:34] And if you'd like to learn more about the podcast, including our membership and all kinds of other

[00:55:39] cool things, check the show notes.

[00:55:41] And that is all for episode number 227.

[00:55:45] Stay strong.

[00:55:46] Do the best you can.

[00:55:48] I'll talk to you soon.