Alissa in Arizona

[00:00:00] Life is so sharp. Like there is no mercy. It can pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And when you're already struggling or you're already down, you know, getting kicked again, it can just push you in a direction that can be really challenging to come back from.

[00:00:37] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it.

[00:00:50] We certainly don't talk about it enough. And when we do talk about it, many of us, including me, aren't very good at it. Actually, most of us suck at it.

[00:00:58] So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors in large part to help or try to help more people in more places feel a little less shitty and a little less alone.

[00:01:12] And so a huge thanks if you have been involved in that in any way. I really appreciate it.

[00:01:16] Now, if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you would like to talk, please reach out.

[00:01:20] Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or Twitter at Suicide Noted.

[00:01:26] You can check the show notes to learn more about the podcast, including other ways to reach out.

[00:01:31] Our membership, and I want to thank Laura. She is a new member. So check that out if you are interested in that.

[00:01:36] We would love that kind of support.

[00:01:39] You can also learn about our group on Signal, as well as some other things we're involved in that maybe you can be involved in.

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[00:01:53] So please take a moment right now. Right now.

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[00:02:02] Finally, we are talking about suicide on this podcast and we do not hold back.

[00:02:07] So please take that into account before you listen or as you listen.

[00:02:11] But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn.

[00:02:15] Today, I am talking with Alyssa.

[00:02:17] Alyssa lives in Arizona and she is a suicide attempt survivor.

[00:02:25] Hey, Alyssa.

[00:02:26] How are you today?

[00:02:28] 3.5 out of 10.

[00:02:29] How are you?

[00:02:30] Okay. Yeah, I'll match you on that.

[00:02:32] Yeah. And you're in Arizona. What part of Arizona are you in?

[00:02:36] I currently live in Phoenix.

[00:02:38] Oh, okay. And is that a hotel room you're in?

[00:02:43] Well, it's what we call a guest suite.

[00:02:44] So I moved into a new apartment and it got flooded last week.

[00:02:49] So I'm staying in a basically like a furnished apartment until I move.

[00:02:53] I'm moving today into the new one.

[00:02:54] Oh, wow. So today's a busy day.

[00:02:57] Yeah.

[00:02:57] We could, if you want to, talk about everything other than suicide or we could just talk about

[00:03:05] that or somewhere in between. Maybe it's usually a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

[00:03:10] What would you like to do?

[00:03:11] That's the point of the podcast, right? So yeah, we can just dig right in.

[00:03:15] I appreciate you showing up and talking with me.

[00:03:18] Yeah, I appreciate you too.

[00:03:20] Arizona.

[00:03:21] But I'm from Utah.

[00:03:22] So here we go. All right. All right. Here we go. Cause you know, I've done this. So Utah,

[00:03:30] does that mean that you are or were Mormon?

[00:03:33] Usually that's the case. Yes. I did grow up. Yeah. I come from a Mormon family of eight.

[00:03:39] I'm the youngest of eight.

[00:03:40] Does that, is that part of this conversation?

[00:03:42] Yeah. I think that's a big part.

[00:03:44] Former Mormons.

[00:03:46] So where do we begin?

[00:03:48] Let's do this. We'll dive right in.

[00:03:50] You're a suicide attempt survivor.

[00:03:53] Do you have one attempt or multiple?

[00:03:56] I would only say one attempt.

[00:03:58] I think the others were, it's just more and more 80,

[00:04:01] 80, 80 severely throughout this, the duration of my life.

[00:04:05] When was the attempt?

[00:04:07] Last August. Yes. I've been in Phoenix almost 18 months.

[00:04:11] My brother actually committed suicide or completed suicide in July of 22.

[00:04:17] And at that time I was working remotely. I hated the cold weather. My mom's gone. My dad's,

[00:04:23] he's got dementia. So I was like, what the fuck am I doing here? Why am I in Utah? I don't even like

[00:04:28] Utah. My son, I have a grown son. He's 25. He lives down here. So I packed up and I'm just like

[00:04:33] in a really quick decision. And I came down here. I'm just kind of trying to create a new life.

[00:04:38] But it's been really challenging.

[00:04:39] Oh, I bet. And you have a dog.

[00:04:43] I have two. They're asleep. Can you see?

[00:04:45] Oh, that's why I said that. I saw big ears sticking out.

[00:04:49] Yeah, she's really cool. They're really great. I'm grateful for them.

[00:04:53] Your brother passed away, took his own life in July of 2022. You tried to take your own life

[00:05:00] in August of 2023. And now here we are talking in June of 2024. Did you look for something like this?

[00:05:11] Your podcast? Yeah. I found your podcast after I was in the hospital and I just remember being so

[00:05:17] disoriented. I mean, you know the drill with that and getting out. I was just very overwhelmed by

[00:05:24] the disconnection of family and friends after that happened and just felt very lonely. I felt very,

[00:05:31] very isolated and lonely in my experience. And so that was when I, you know, searched you out or

[00:05:38] searched suicide out and found you. And it was a source of relief and a lot of help for me. So thank you.

[00:05:46] Of course. How long were you in the hospital for?

[00:05:49] A week. Let's really get into the details. Let me back up.

[00:05:53] Yeah, let's not fuck around here. We're going hard and deep and all of the above.

[00:06:02] Okay. So in 2019, I left a relationship I was in for seven years. Very bad relationship. Not good for my mental health.

[00:06:10] It was the hardest thing I did, but the best thing I could have ever done. I didn't really know how to be alone

[00:06:14] at that point. It was really hard and very challenging. And I used alcohol to medicate myself through that process.

[00:06:21] Yes. And within six months, my mom passed away. And so it was just kind of like a pump,

[00:06:27] just whammy, you know? And within the six months after that,

[00:06:31] after my mom's passing, I was in a really bad car accident. My car caught fire. Basically,

[00:06:37] I nearly died. Sometimes wonder why the fuck I didn't die. But that's another story. It was

[00:06:42] really by the grace of God or, you know, I don't know, maybe my mom and my angels and my soul team.

[00:06:47] I don't know. But anyway, I kind of hit rock bottom at that. You can imagine I was intoxicated when it

[00:06:53] happened. So really bad, really scary. Lots of people mad at me. I don't know that anybody really

[00:07:00] took into account the grieving that was happening. So anyway, I ended up finding this really great job.

[00:07:07] I won't name the company, really large company based out of New York City. I do technical recruiting

[00:07:12] for a living. I've been with them for several years, make great money, super happy work remote.

[00:07:18] And I really got out of that dark place quickly. It was in like six months I got out of that.

[00:07:23] Within another six months, my brother passed. So within a year, there's been some kind of markers

[00:07:28] that I can look at and go, okay, that's why this, that's why this, that's why that.

[00:07:32] Yeah. So my brother passed and that's when I decided to come to Phoenix, to be closer to family.

[00:07:37] It was harder than I thought it would be. You know, I had a really good group of friends and

[00:07:42] I taught for a studio in Salt Lake City and maybe didn't or underestimated the connections

[00:07:47] that I had there and didn't realize how much I would miss them. So it was very isolating here.

[00:07:52] I think that's what pushed me over was the isolation and the aloneness.

[00:07:57] How many siblings do you have?

[00:07:59] Seven or six alive now.

[00:08:02] Do any of them struggle the way you struggle?

[00:08:04] Most of us. Yeah, I would say.

[00:08:07] Are any of them still involved with the Mormon church?

[00:08:09] Just one. My oldest sister, she's someone I was very close to before the attempt.

[00:08:15] And she's no longer in, has communication with me.

[00:08:18] She and I were very close. We were really close through my brother's attempt at being. It wasn't

[00:08:23] until I did that she, I think it was too much. And I can, I can honor and understand and appreciate

[00:08:29] that. It's a lot.

[00:08:31] It's a lot for you too. You probably know how I feel about some things if you've listened to the

[00:08:34] podcast. So you shared some stuff. I think it was, you mentioned there was drinking,

[00:08:38] there was a breakup, there was a car accident, there was all kinds of stuff, a lot of major,

[00:08:43] major stuff. And as much as you want to, can you share with me summer of last year? Cause you're

[00:08:49] leading up and you're struggling, but there was a particular day where you said, no, this day is

[00:08:55] different than the other day. This day I am actually going to try not just think about it.

[00:09:00] Yeah. My other brother got married in Mexico a few weeks before that. And I remember traveling

[00:09:06] there alone. And, you know, I think what happened was coming back from that. Um, it was also my

[00:09:12] birthday that week. I've been single for the last five years, but I have a lot of people that have

[00:09:16] come and gone through my life. No one had ever stuck, right? No one. I, we, I just never really

[00:09:21] connected to that degree where I wanted to start something with them. And a lot of people really kind

[00:09:26] of started swirling around me again that week of my birthday. And I just felt like I'm just going to be

[00:09:31] alone forever. I went through all of those events alone too, you know, losing my mom and losing my

[00:09:38] brother and life is sharp. Life is so sharp. You have to do it alone. It can feel impossible.

[00:09:44] Yeah, for sure.

[00:09:45] I think I'm, I do believe that I'm a really wonderful person and I don't know necessarily

[00:09:50] that I will be alone forever, but that day it, that's how it felt. I was just tired. I'm just very

[00:09:56] tired. I'm still very tired today.

[00:09:58] Where were you that day?

[00:09:59] At home. I live actually in a wonderful place, downtown Phoenix. It's, it's interesting to

[00:10:04] contrast where I can really have enjoyed a lot of the parts of my experience here, but

[00:10:09] also have had such a life-changing experience here in bad ways too.

[00:10:13] How much do you want to talk about that day?

[00:10:15] We can do it. I think I'm up for it. I just, I had also been drinking that day. I remember

[00:10:20] a guest of yours talking about alcohol and how that really can change the chemistry. I do believe

[00:10:24] that. I mean, you, you do tap into things and you know, whatever emotion you feel can be

[00:10:29] elevated. Um, and I just remember feeling very desperate and very isolated. And I don't,

[00:10:34] I don't know if it was alcohol or if it's kind of me trying to protect myself from remembering

[00:10:39] everything. Yeah. I decided I wanted to hang myself. So I, I cut a belt and I put it, you

[00:10:44] know, up on the door and secured it. I grabbed just like the trash can that was in the bathroom

[00:10:49] to stand up on it. And my dog was barking really crazily. Like she knew what was like,

[00:10:55] something was really amiss. As soon as I went to step up in it, the garbage can bottom fell through.

[00:11:01] And so I just, at that moment was like, what the fuck am I doing?

[00:11:04] So was it a little, somewhat impulsive?

[00:11:07] Yeah. I feel like it was really impulsive.

[00:11:09] And maybe the alcohol?

[00:11:11] Absolutely. That too.

[00:11:12] I would imagine for some people, if the pail falls and it obviously doesn't work,

[00:11:17] they might try again. Yeah, you're right. You're right. The barking was a different,

[00:11:21] I remember it was a different pitch that I had ever heard before too. Yeah. That really shook me

[00:11:26] more than even thought through. Yeah. It was really weird, but a lot of things are, you know,

[00:11:33] the accident and getting through that was weird too. So I do kind of chalk that up to, you know,

[00:11:40] I mean, for whatever fucking reason, maybe I'm here for a reason. I don't know.

[00:11:44] I feel like this is a question I'm going to ask that it's kind of like, the answer is going to be

[00:11:48] yes and no, but did you want to die?

[00:11:50] Yes.

[00:11:51] You wish you had succeeded.

[00:11:52] Yeah.

[00:11:53] Now that's interesting to me because I wonder how, frankly, how it is you haven't tried again,

[00:12:00] if you feel that way.

[00:12:00] There's a lot of things that keep me from it. And I think a lot of it is living through that

[00:12:05] experience of my brother passing and seeing the aftershock and effects of that. That's a tough one.

[00:12:11] My brother used to speak very openly about his mental health and suicide. He wrote a post on

[00:12:17] Facebook. I mean, I'm talking like eight years ago. And I remember him saying, you know, if you

[00:12:21] know someone that has suicidality or is going through suicidality, give them a hug and thank

[00:12:27] them for being here because most times we're here for them and not for us.

[00:12:32] And I think a lot of people might not get it where it's like, thank them. I'm sure it happens. I bet it

[00:12:37] doesn't happen a lot. Those kinds of words said, who knows? They're trying. It's really fucking

[00:12:43] hard. They're probably at least in part staying for others. That might be you.

[00:12:47] I just find it interesting. And your podcast has helped me crawl into the minds of others. And

[00:12:52] you get to see it from different perspectives and why the mind thinks the way it thinks.

[00:12:58] You know, this topic is so taboo and it is so shunned upon and it's scary and it's big for most

[00:13:05] people. Most will choose to walk away, but that's so painful for the person that's experiencing it.

[00:13:12] Yeah. So last summer when it doesn't work, but you mentioned a hospital,

[00:13:16] did you check yourself into a hospital after?

[00:13:19] Oh no, I had told my niece who lives down here, she's 32. But this is also, I have to remember,

[00:13:26] this is my brother's daughter, the brother that just died a year ago. And I'm not, you know,

[00:13:31] what am I thinking of telling her? And of course she's like, absolutely not. This is not fucking

[00:13:37] happening. And so she came over. I didn't even realize really what was going on. She came over

[00:13:42] and she said, you know, I really think we need to call a crisis team for you. So I didn't really know

[00:13:47] like what that meant. Yeah. So I'm like literally in the middle of my work day on a Wednesday

[00:13:53] working from home and this team comes over and they're like, Hey, you got to go. And I'm like,

[00:14:00] I, I like, I'm working, like, I can't go. And I'm like, I'm good. And they're like,

[00:14:04] literally you just like, you're not good, Alyssa. And so they're like, we're going to go downstairs.

[00:14:10] You can pack your bag. We'll meet you down there in 15 minutes. Yeah. I had to like,

[00:14:15] send my boss a message and just say, Hey, I, I'm, I'm not feeling well. I'm in,

[00:14:19] I think I told him I was having kidney problems because I'd had them. I'd had them earlier that

[00:14:24] year and just kind of bounced out. Just like, I don't know what's happening.

[00:14:28] You can't tell your boss what happened. Not that you would, but we know that you're probably

[00:14:33] losing your job. Yeah. Well, I mean, even if you don't, what does that look like?

[00:14:39] Well, it's just like one thing I'm reminded of. It's like when you're taken against your will,

[00:14:44] which is essentially what you were, I've got a 1 PM meeting. Do I just, how do I?

[00:14:48] Like life just doesn't stop. Your work doesn't stop. Your obligations don't stop. Almost no time

[00:14:56] to work it out. It's like, why you go to this hospital? This, I know you stayed for a week

[00:15:01] cause you've shared that down the podcast, which I guess is a. Yeah, it was really helpful. I can't

[00:15:07] thank you enough for the work you're doing. It has been the friend to me that I needed.

[00:15:13] Instead of me asking what sucked about the hospital and you can share that, of course,

[00:15:16] I'm actually going to ask you what, if anything was good about that experience.

[00:15:20] Yeah. You know, I met some really incredible people and a girl that was in my room, you know,

[00:15:26] her and I really helped each other through that week. You know, I will tell you though,

[00:15:31] I got very, I got sexually harassed about three times when I was in the hospital. Yeah. It was,

[00:15:36] it was such a wild experience. By like a staff?

[00:15:39] Mm-hmm. Just, yeah. Like trying to get my phone number,

[00:15:44] sitting on my bed for a prolonged time in the, like that night when I was sleeping,

[00:15:48] telling me I was beautiful, like weird, weird, weird. I'm thinking back. And at the time you're

[00:15:53] really fucking dropped up. You don't know what's going on. You're so vulnerable. It was really

[00:15:59] not a good experience coming out of that. I thought what a fucking waste of my life.

[00:16:04] I have a word for those people that did that to you. They are called criminals.

[00:16:08] Yeah. They shouldn't be there.

[00:16:09] No, no, no, no. Not just that.

[00:16:11] You're right.

[00:16:12] Not be there. Not be there is a starting point. Sure. A hundred percent.

[00:16:16] Being threatened because you, what? Keep saying this and I'm going to keep saying it more.

[00:16:22] I know most people don't give a shit. We are incarcerating the wrong people.

[00:16:26] We are incarcerating a list of the world. And that's what it is.

[00:16:30] It's actually even more fucking twisted because I don't know, you have a good job. I'm sure

[00:16:35] insurance, blah, blah, blah. But you're getting charged an obscene amount of money too. For almost

[00:16:40] no care for getting sexually harassed. Alyssa, can we just bracket our conversation for a moment?

[00:16:45] I want to ask you a question. Okay.

[00:16:47] Tell me one, and there's probably some out there that I'm not thinking. Tell me one other scenario or

[00:16:53] situation or I'm at a loss for words here in which you can be taken against your will,

[00:16:57] be charged a very high amount of money and be at risk. And it is a risk. Your story, your experience,

[00:17:05] there's not uncommon. No.

[00:17:07] Sexual harassment. So can you share with me another scenario in our culture where that's a thing?

[00:17:13] No. And I think that's why it's so important to have scenarios where we can talk openly like this

[00:17:19] about it because it is so pushed and compressed and pushed away and put away and don't talk about it.

[00:17:25] It's not helping that beast, that animal. It's allowing it to continue to be so fucked up.

[00:17:31] I'm terrified to discuss this with anyone, any feelings of not wanting to be here because that

[00:17:39] is not a place I want to go back to.

[00:17:41] I was having a conversation with somebody at the pickleball courts yesterday. He was a pretty young

[00:17:46] medical student who did a psych rotation and was astounded by the bad treatment.

[00:17:51] And he asked me, because he knows a little bit about what I'm involved with and the podcast.

[00:17:56] And I'm like, you're at the University of North Carolina's unit. Imagine what it's like in some

[00:18:01] other places.

[00:18:03] No shit.

[00:18:04] Of course.

[00:18:04] I said, do you know the fastest way to get out of a place like that? He said, no. I said, just say you're

[00:18:12] not suicidal anymore enough times and you'll probably get out. He says, well, that makes sense. I said,

[00:18:17] but the problem is some of those people are. They learn what they have to do. But now what?

[00:18:23] Now you would get dumped into it. For me, it was saying, we got an Uber for you, get in and then what?

[00:18:30] And he said, you know what? I would consider, there's a few places I'm going to consider

[00:18:36] going into. He says, you know what? I won't go into that. I said, why not? He goes, because I saw

[00:18:40] what's going on. I said, they need you more than anybody. He says, yeah, but I have to take care of

[00:18:44] myself. I'm not doing it. I was like, that's exactly what's happening. That's what's happening

[00:18:49] among other things. They see it. And unless they're a fucking sociopath, they're like, I don't

[00:18:55] think I want to spend my days here.

[00:18:57] Nobody does. And those people were working so many hours. I felt bad for those people.

[00:19:03] Yeah. Well, they might get in for good reasons, but they stay for understandable reasons. But it's

[00:19:08] like most people would become hardened.

[00:19:10] And yeah, because of the work conditions and you don't have enough resources. And Alyssa,

[00:19:16] did you go to the ER first or were you like, did you go right to the unit?

[00:19:20] No, they have like a transitional place here in Phoenix. I guess it would be for,

[00:19:24] it was an assessment. They did assessment on me and I just, I don't know what it,

[00:19:29] I don't even know what you would call it. It would be probably someone that they would consider less

[00:19:33] dangerous to themselves. They would maybe just keep them there for a few hours.

[00:19:37] Yeah. But then they did decide, okay, we're going to have you go to the hospital.

[00:19:41] So you emailed me right after. And then what happened? We kind of just didn't, didn't work out?

[00:19:46] Yeah. I think it probably was just not, I was probably just too overwhelmed. I think having some

[00:19:51] little distance based in time from it has given me a chance to really collect like what has happened.

[00:19:56] I think at that point it was just really messy in my brain.

[00:20:00] How have you gotten through the past 10 months?

[00:20:02] I cry a lot. I have good friends. I have really good friends that care and show up,

[00:20:08] check on me a lot. I really like to isolate. I'm sure that this is not nothing new to you,

[00:20:14] but I do. And to the point it can be detrimental. People are like, what the fuck did I do to you?

[00:20:18] And I'm like, it's not you. I'm not wanting to spread that and pour any of this into,

[00:20:25] into your life. But also then that's where you feel really lonely, you know? So it's double

[00:20:30] S4. Meditation helps. It helps me keep my sanity, keep me grounded and just to hope that there will

[00:20:37] be better days. But most days I still think about it, think about doing it.

[00:20:41] Do you change the method in your mind?

[00:20:43] Yeah. I mean, I live in a high rise now, so it's, that's always a thought.

[00:20:47] In the past 10 months, how close have you gotten beyond ideating?

[00:20:51] I haven't. Just like I was saying in the beginning, just very happy ideating throughout the day.

[00:20:57] I don't know what that sort of feels like for you. I would imagine it's just hard to do certain

[00:21:02] things at a high level, whether it's work or other things when you're ideating so often.

[00:21:06] Yeah. And I feel, I don't want to use the word selfish, self-absorbed way of thinking. And so

[00:21:13] how, and this is the meditation practice and all of the teaching that I've done. It's like,

[00:21:17] how do I interrupt that thought pattern? How do I air that out? You don't get so stuck because

[00:21:22] that's what ideating is, right? You're just replaying and you're going over and over and over. And so

[00:21:27] it's, it's just a matter of like, I got to get outside for a walk or I've got to do something to

[00:21:32] stimulate me physically with my senses, just like you would with an anxiety or a panic attack. It kind

[00:21:37] of has the same, but for me, it's just, it feels like a drowning, your head being pushed

[00:21:42] underwater again and again. Yeah. And there have been times, a lot of times that the tools that I've

[00:21:48] practiced and created, whatever those are, they just don't fucking work. Our brains and our thoughts

[00:21:54] are very powerful. They really are.

[00:21:56] But one thing I've really experienced this last year is you can try to like make life better with

[00:22:03] your thoughts and you can, there's all this shit talking about like, oh, if you just change the way

[00:22:07] you think your life. And I believe that to a certain degree, but I also believe that there

[00:22:11] is just at the nature of our minds is to ruminate and to kind of work. Maybe it's not, maybe it's

[00:22:18] because we're mentally ill. I don't, I only know my brain, right? Yeah. Do you think you're mentally

[00:22:24] ill? However, however that is defined? Yeah. I'm coming. That's something that I've come to terms

[00:22:30] with honestly, even in the last month, I really believe that it's not super, super fit up there

[00:22:36] and it takes a lot of work to at least be maybe in a normalized state for me, for maybe some other

[00:22:41] people, their normal state takes me 10 times more work and intention than it does just for the

[00:22:45] average person. Like it's a battle that I fight every single day. Yeah. My battle is not hating those

[00:22:51] people, not hating the people who seem to be mostly okay. And they don't have to struggle like

[00:22:57] that. My people are crazy motherfucking people. My people too. Do you, are you okay with the word

[00:23:03] or words mentally ill? It never sits well with me. It doesn't either. No. Like I said, who's,

[00:23:10] who's well? Show me a well person. I like the word, the, the original root. I believe the root word

[00:23:17] of dis-ease, not disease, how we use it, but dis-ease makes more sense to me. Yeah. I know why we have

[00:23:23] words and I know why there's a DSMV, whatever the fuck it is. I always get that confused with

[00:23:28] Motor Vehicle Bureau, DMV, DSMV, Roman numerals. Shut up. I can't keep track of your dumb acronyms.

[00:23:37] Keep it simple, Dodo. This is like, what the fuck? It just plays into transactional all day long. Like

[00:23:44] you getting shuffled out of the hospital and into an Uber lift. You're like, you're a piece of meat.

[00:23:49] But also what do, what, what should they be doing? And that's something I've kind of

[00:23:54] tried to unwrap too. Like what, what would have worked? What would work? I don't know.

[00:23:59] What would have worked for you? Worked meaning what as well? What does that mean even for you?

[00:24:03] Worked. I mean, just taking you off that ledge, you know, literally, but I think it's someone

[00:24:10] listening, someone listening with a, with a kindness to listen and not to judge or not to try to fix.

[00:24:16] And you said 43 seconds ago, more or less, I believe something like, well, what should they do?

[00:24:22] What would have worked? Like, am I wrong when I heard that, that the idea of someone really

[00:24:27] listening well with an open heart sounds not attainable, or you may not have framed it as,

[00:24:32] well, what should they do? What should they do is train people to be really good listeners and they

[00:24:38] get paid well so they can have a comfortable life because what they do is pretty fucking amazing

[00:24:42] and do that. Maybe it's an hour, maybe it's four days. Great. You're going to make some overtime

[00:24:47] here. Just do your job really well. Oh, listen, we create jobs because there's a demand for jobs,

[00:24:52] but, and I know somebody told me there is, there are professional listeners, but if I'm doing this

[00:24:58] kind of work and I'm not aware of them, it's not that known. And if it's not that known, then like,

[00:25:03] sure, great. But there's so many jobs, different kinds of jobs to serve people's needs,

[00:25:08] right? They have a window McDonald's. Their only job is to listen to your order and then take your

[00:25:14] money. They don't even give you your food, right? And most is like two sections. That's a pretty

[00:25:18] specialized role. Not a problem for McDonald's or Burger King or whatever else. They will make that

[00:25:23] shit because it's efficient. It's good. It's good for business. But listen well with an open heart.

[00:25:31] Nope, can't do it. Don't know how it would work.

[00:25:33] Do you think though that maybe people maybe start with that intention and it just becomes

[00:25:38] so overwhelming for them that they do have to harden? I don't know. This is just a thought.

[00:25:43] Yeah. Cause if you have one person who's dealing with 14 people a day, of course that's going to

[00:25:47] happen. But if we actually gave a shit and maybe hire five people, you know, they can work with one

[00:25:55] or two people a day, whatever, whatever the numbers are, what would that look like? Oh, but we can't do

[00:26:01] that. We can't afford that. Of course you can. You have more than enough money. Most of you,

[00:26:05] it's how you're allocating. Why do you have so many goddamn beds in your emergency room?

[00:26:10] Build more bed. No, no, no, no, no, no. He, uh, budget cuts. It's like, all right, so then stop.

[00:26:15] Yeah, it does. It does feel helpless. And my brother that passed, you know, some of his parting words

[00:26:20] for that is he was hospitalized three times in the year and a half before he passed. He was hospitalized

[00:26:25] seven times in his life, just this deep, deep darkness that he had within him. And man, he

[00:26:32] fucking tried his ass off the year before he, he was doing all the things, the quote, right things

[00:26:38] still took him.

[00:26:39] Yeah. People will say the disease got him or his illness got him. It's like, I'm not disputing

[00:26:44] that. I know very little about your brother, but which you don't hear very often. And then

[00:26:48] we'll move on. Cause I could go on. I just have blabbing about this. You don't usually hear

[00:26:52] like the hospitals got him, right? The system got him. Like that's just not part of a really

[00:26:57] our vocabulary. Even it doesn't almost sounds weird saying it aloud to me. There's not, there

[00:27:02] isn't a fix. There isn't a solution. I don't know. It's, it's something that needs to be

[00:27:07] explored and not hidden in a corner. You know, he tried, I see where he was just like, I'm

[00:27:13] fucking tapped. And he told his daughter, I was nine 50 years old. You know, I've lived

[00:27:17] a life. If I was 15 or 17, it might be a little different, but I'm just tired.

[00:27:21] You know, and I can really relate to that. I think a lot of people could relate to that

[00:27:25] because what do you do? I don't, I don't feel like there is a solution. I've been on

[00:27:29] medication and I've been in therapy. I've been in all those things this last few years.

[00:27:33] And you try and you try and you try and you try and you try. It's like, it makes complete

[00:27:37] sense at some point, either you stop trying and maybe that means you attempt, maybe not,

[00:27:42] but that you just, you lose hope.

[00:27:44] You lose hope. Yeah.

[00:27:46] So for somebody to say to you or anybody, well, try another doctor, try this new medication.

[00:27:51] At some point it's like, I've tried a lot of fucking things. I can't guarantee that won't

[00:27:54] be helpful, but like, sure. It's so deflating.

[00:27:59] It just, and again, that life is so sharp. Like there is no mercy. It can pop, pop, pop,

[00:28:05] pop, pop. And when you're already struggling or you're already down, you know, getting kicked

[00:28:10] again, it can just push, it push you in a direction that can be really, really challenging

[00:28:16] to come back from.

[00:28:17] Life is sharp. Memoir title. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop is glad to be somewhere there too.

[00:28:23] So life is sharp. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. Just read the damn book. I don't think publishers

[00:28:29] agree. That's why these memoir titles are just titles, but you never know. You know what I like

[00:28:35] about these memoir titles that I come up with?

[00:28:38] I love your memoir titles.

[00:28:39] Well, here's what I like about it. Because in most books, life is sharp, but then there's like,

[00:28:44] there's another section to it and you can do it. Life is hard. You're stronger.

[00:28:50] Spider hair, yeah.

[00:28:50] Yeah, yeah. My memoir titles are not that. They're like something that just is, and I'm,

[00:28:57] there's no happy ending here. Maybe there is, but that's not really why you're reading the book.

[00:29:01] And that's okay. That's great. We need that too. We definitely need that. We need more of what

[00:29:06] you're doing.

[00:29:06] I haven't figured out my memoir yet.

[00:29:08] I'm sure you've had several ideas run through your mind.

[00:29:11] Bunch of ideas.

[00:29:12] Yeah. Well, it's a couple.

[00:29:14] Really edgy. I don't want to lean into this type of title because I'd rather be a better person is,

[00:29:20] here's the title. You ready? Fuck you. That's why.

[00:29:24] Brilliant.

[00:29:26] But is that the guy I want to be? I'd rather be like a kinder, gentler, glass half full.

[00:29:32] But is that you?

[00:29:33] I think you can be fuck you. That's why. And also be kind.

[00:29:37] You're right.

[00:29:38] But I don't know. So tell me what keeps you going.

[00:29:41] I've been in states of peace and abundance. I sound like a new age spiritualist, but sorry.

[00:29:49] I have. I've really been in that. And so there is always a part of being like, man, you are, I am a

[00:29:54] fighter. And I've come and wandered through some dark shit. But that's kind of what keeps me going.

[00:30:00] And not wanting to hurt those that I love, truly.

[00:30:04] I don't need to, we don't need to talk about your childhood formative years and all that stuff. I know

[00:30:09] you were in Utah. I know you have a big family. I know you're Mormon. But the one question I do have

[00:30:13] is on growing up, did you ever think about suicide?

[00:30:16] Yeah. I remember having depression very young, fifth grade, sixth grade, writing like, like notes,

[00:30:22] but never attempting. So I did think that there's something like, how does a kid feel like that?

[00:30:27] You know, I feel, is it chemical? Is it environmental? Is it? I don't know. I mean,

[00:30:32] how many kids at that age are thinking like, I want to just die? Is that normal? Or is it just not

[00:30:37] talked about? I hope not. I hope that's not normal. Cause

[00:30:42] How many people know that we're talking right now?

[00:30:45] Nobody. Yeah. I think what, after the aftermath of my hospitalization and just kind of seeing

[00:30:51] the scattering of family and friends, it's, it's just not something I like to talk about openly.

[00:30:57] Risky. It's risky. It's Sean. Risky.

[00:30:59] I would use that as a potential memoir title, but I think it's copyrighted or trademarked from the 1983

[00:31:05] movie with Tom Cruise. So we can't, that's off the table. I know that how you found the podcast,

[00:31:10] I know that you listened to the podcast. I know that you said at one point it was too soon. I

[00:31:15] actually don't know why you're choosing to talk with me. Did we cover that?

[00:31:19] No, I don't think so. Well, I think it's cathartic number one, but I think it's also,

[00:31:24] I wanted to show you appreciation for the work you're doing and express to you how much has helped me.

[00:31:30] And just to, because the stories we can relate with stories and people, I think it's just so

[00:31:36] important to, to share. So I wanted to share.

[00:31:40] Well, thank you. That experience last year, the attempt, the hospitalization outside of

[00:31:45] medical community folks. I know that your niece knows about it. Does anybody else? It sounds like

[00:31:52] there are other people from what you just said about the scattering, but other, are there other

[00:31:55] people in your family, friend group?

[00:31:57] Yeah. My whole family knows. My friends, most of the people in my life, most of the people in my life

[00:32:03] know. Does that feel weird? Yeah. It's, I really went into a shell after that. I struggle with,

[00:32:10] with embarrassment. And I mentioned, I, I isolate, tend to isolate and avoid. And you know,

[00:32:16] I'm sure it really hurt my family. They just lost a brother a year before that. So a lot to swallow.

[00:32:22] And so I can give them their space and I can respect their, their feelings, but it's been,

[00:32:27] it's been painful too. I've, you know, being the youngest, I've always been very loved and

[00:32:33] very engaged with my family. And it was like, again, they were sharp. It was a very sharp cutoff

[00:32:39] when this happened. A lot of them have not spoken to me since.

[00:32:43] I'm asking you to speculate if you want to, like, why do you think that is? Because to be very

[00:32:47] honest with you, transparent, I don't get it. I'm not trying to pour fuel on fire here. I'm really not.

[00:32:53] I, I, cause for me, the opposite is needed when someone's in pain, but that's on paper and it's easy

[00:32:58] to say. So what do you think your family who I imagine love you? Yeah. Why would they pull away

[00:33:04] like that? Maybe they, they saw it as selfish. Maybe it's just, it, it, it brings up too much

[00:33:10] for them or they just see me as damaged goods, you know, like, I don't want to stay away.

[00:33:17] I've thought about it a lot because I don't understand it either, but people have the right

[00:33:22] to have their opinions. And honestly, it's, you know, it's not my business and they don't owe me

[00:33:26] an explanation. Yeah. I don't know. So as we talk right now, do you have anyone in your life

[00:33:31] who you can have a conversation about this and say, I'm thinking about killing myself or these

[00:33:36] thoughts are getting a little. Yeah. I have a good friend. I do. She actually, uh, I met right

[00:33:41] before my car accident after my mom died and I remember where her bond and my bond really

[00:33:47] cemented was I woke up in the hospital. I didn't really know what had happened. And everyone was very

[00:33:53] angry with me as you can imagine. And that's also maybe why my family's like, I just, she's a lot.

[00:33:58] She's done crazy shit. They just don't want to do. Um, but she came into the hospital and held my hand

[00:34:03] and had an open heart and listened to me and asked me if I was okay. She did what we just talked about

[00:34:10] people doing. Yeah. She's been really good to have in my corner. Maybe a little different right now.

[00:34:15] You had nobody instead of that one person. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of people out there that,

[00:34:19] that don't have that person. Oh, so many. And so I try to be, yeah, I try to lead my life with,

[00:34:25] with a kind heart. And I think that's what this, these experience. Yeah. I've shown me,

[00:34:30] we just don't know. We don't know the depths. We don't know what's really, I mean, whatever you're

[00:34:35] seeing here is not what's happening. This is just, this little snippet of a person could be,

[00:34:42] at least in my, like to be that kindness can go a long way for people, whether it's the homeless

[00:34:47] person on the street that everyone ignores. I mean, that's, and I'm sounding chevy again, but

[00:34:51] truly look them in the eye or, you know, be someone that others need.

[00:34:56] I think people don't know what to do. Like they say, I really want to be there for you,

[00:35:00] but they actually don't know what that looks like sometimes. And the other part of that,

[00:35:04] that I just think about is without getting weird about it. It's like, we have built a culture

[00:35:09] that in large part, not entirely by any means, but in large part is based on working.

[00:35:14] You got to make money. So you keep working because you got to make more money because

[00:35:17] you have all these bills and on and on and on. And people are just busy. Their bandwidth is reduced.

[00:35:22] And so we're going to get cut out that kind of stuff.

[00:35:25] Yeah. It's not necessarily realistic and I, and you don't have to walk around. I don't think

[00:35:29] with like an exposed kind of bar, but I think if you do know someone in your life that is struggling,

[00:35:36] you don't have to necessarily get down in the mud with them, but you can just show us some

[00:35:41] kindness, some openness that I do think that is what we need. And we need more of that.

[00:35:46] No doubt.

[00:35:46] But it's scary to do that. Like not everybody wants to get in these conversations, you know,

[00:35:50] not everybody understand these conversations either. We have it because you, you've met

[00:35:55] yourself there. I've met myself there. You know, that feeling, but.

[00:35:59] Well, I mean, look, if you are having labor pains, I can empathize. You don't have to go through the

[00:36:03] thing. Of course you're going to understand it in a different or more unique way. If you go through

[00:36:08] something and we both experience the thing, but like empathy doesn't necessarily require us the

[00:36:14] same experience. I don't think.

[00:36:15] Yeah. But don't you think that, that people are afraid when, when we talk about these things,

[00:36:20] people don't like to talk about it.

[00:36:22] Well, that's what, this is where empathy is hard for me. Cause I'm like,

[00:36:25] why not?

[00:36:26] I can really feel my blood getting it. Like I'm, I'm physically different when I think about this.

[00:36:31] You could see my face now. I'm like, I don't, you're uncomfortable. I mean,

[00:36:35] our entire fucking world is making people feel comfortable. That's why we can't say certain

[00:36:39] words. So here we go. Pink and purple pill. You've probably heard this question. Um, I asked

[00:36:44] you earlier if you could go back and you, you gave me a rather clear answer, but I asked this question

[00:36:49] anyway for the audience that might be new. Thank you for listening for the first time. This question

[00:36:54] is a, is a, uh, well, I give Alyssa a pill, pink and purple. She takes it. She falls asleep

[00:37:00] peacefully. She dies in her sleep peacefully and nobody knows it's a suicide. And I'm going to

[00:37:05] give it to her magically somehow through this computer right now. And what would you do with it?

[00:37:09] Yeah. Take it done. Easy like that. Yeah. What if I changed one part to that, which is you go to

[00:37:15] sleep, it's peaceful, but people do know it's a suicide. Feel like that might change it.

[00:37:19] I don't know that it would. Yeah. Life is, life is sharp. Life is hard.

[00:37:23] Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.

[00:37:27] Um, but that, but the reality is, yeah, no, I, I do. I mean, that's not going to happen. So,

[00:37:32] um, you know, I'll continue to show up and try, but who knows?

[00:37:36] When's your birthday? August 9th. Oh, when was the attempt? August 14th.

[00:37:42] Okay. Other than meditation, which you mentioned was at times helpful. Does anything else help you?

[00:37:47] Well, of course you have awesome dogs. That's a given. They do help a lot. My friends, my work

[00:37:53] helps. Are there any myths you want to dispel? Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't know. I

[00:37:57] know you've covered most of them and I, you know, just the selfish part. I mean, I, I don't know.

[00:38:03] What, what do you think about the selfishness part, Sean? Do you think it's selfish?

[00:38:07] We got to really get clear on the definition of selfish for me to answer that question.

[00:38:12] That you're not thinking of anyone else, only yourself when you think of ending your life

[00:38:16] and others don't matter. I would answer that, that I don't think that's a common way. I think

[00:38:20] much more commonly people are thinking of other people. Yeah. Two, even if you're not,

[00:38:25] I'm not sure that's for me how you would define selfish. I think agency is very, very important.

[00:38:31] It's one of these things where like, I don't know if it's selfish, but I don't care. I decided to check

[00:38:35] out even if I or others consider it selfish. It's like, it's almost irrelevant because it's used as

[00:38:41] this like awful pejorative. I'm like, like you said selfish earlier and then you, you checked yourself

[00:38:46] and you said like self-absorbed. It's like, but we're just talking about words at this point.

[00:38:51] Yeah, you're right.

[00:38:52] Is selfish bad? I don't know.

[00:38:54] Well, and we're all selfish.

[00:38:56] Yeah.

[00:38:56] We're all living in our own bodies, in our own minds and we're self-cert. We are by nature selfish.

[00:39:03] I mean, you'd be dead if you weren't somewhat selfish. You have to think about your needs.

[00:39:08] Yeah.

[00:39:09] You have to think about protecting yourself and surviving and all. So yeah,

[00:39:12] I know what they mean. They think it's like, but I mean, I like when you asked that question,

[00:39:17] I'm happy to try to explore more. I just, I don't know.

[00:39:19] Oh yeah. And I, and I, I had siblings when my brother did take his life that were very angry and

[00:39:26] did think that I was like, I get it. I get it. And I hope to God that you're at peace now. I have,

[00:39:32] I never had anger towards him taking his life or resented him. But again, maybe that's because I

[00:39:37] understand the thought processes that he was experiencing. Yeah. Maybe this is a far stretch,

[00:39:42] but it can be selfish for others to want people to stay around and feel miserable and upset and live

[00:39:48] low quality of life just so you're not uncomfortable.

[00:39:52] Yeah. I would 100% agree with that.

[00:39:55] Yeah.

[00:39:55] For example, your one friend who's really good to talk with, has she ever been felt that way? Do

[00:39:59] you know?

[00:39:59] Yeah, she has.

[00:40:00] Yeah.

[00:40:00] Maybe it helps her. Maybe it, maybe it brings her closer to that. Like I can, I can, we can,

[00:40:04] I can feel not uncomfortable in talking to you about it.

[00:40:07] Yeah. And you're not going to feel uncomfortable.

[00:40:10] Yeah.

[00:40:10] I mean, for me, it's like totally the opposite. I'm like,

[00:40:13] this is the most comfortable I am in my life. Isn't that weird?

[00:40:17] I don't think it's weird. I think it's, it's a gift, Sean. I think that's cool.

[00:40:21] It is unusual, but I think it's necessary. It's needed. This is normalizing it in some ways.

[00:40:28] It normalizes it for me. Yeah. Like I, I'm like over here thinking I'm alone in this world and I

[00:40:33] don't know who to talk to or I'm, I'm batshit. It's just the same. And yet here I'm finding a

[00:40:39] community of, of people that have experienced the same thoughts and feelings and even actions.

[00:40:45] Yeah. Forgive the digression here, but I'm thinking about your brother, middle-aged white

[00:40:52] men. And of course this applies to other age groups and other races or ethnic middle-aged

[00:40:57] white men, they kill themselves fairly often.

[00:40:59] I was just going to say, you know, my brother was a middle-aged white man, but was really

[00:41:04] struggling in every way. I don't, I don't know if that's fair to say.

[00:41:09] It's a kind of, we don't really want to hear you, bud. You've had your, you've had your

[00:41:13] time several hundred years. Stop talking. Okay. I get, I get you, but I'm struggling whether

[00:41:19] I'm white or not, whether, whether I'm 40, 30, 50, 18, 88, whether I'm sarcastic or not.

[00:41:26] Like when I think really deep down people are okay with that.

[00:41:29] You know, I've even thought about that, you know, and when I do think about ending my life,

[00:41:34] what would the impact be of my ending of life versus my brother's and it would be completely

[00:41:40] different. How so?

[00:41:41] He had very few friends in the end and very few people that cared. That wouldn't, it wouldn't

[00:41:47] look like that for me. There would be a lot of, a lot of people up, very outside. And maybe

[00:41:52] that's, you know, because I'm a woman or I know she's a pretty girl or whatever it is,

[00:41:58] you know, it's a little bit different than it was for him as a middle-aged, unsuccessful,

[00:42:04] broken man, white man at that, not to get into race so much, but it was just kind of like, well.

[00:42:09] Can you share with me for absolutely self-serving reasons here? Because what you just described is

[00:42:15] a hundred percent how I describe my life. Similar age. I don't know if white matters,

[00:42:20] but we just happen to be white. When you say unsuccessful, broken, but when you say I say

[00:42:24] unsuccessful, what do you mean? Like he did, he was broke.

[00:42:26] Yeah, he was, he was in process of getting, um, but disability. He obviously had a lot of mental,

[00:42:33] uh, problems with just depression, anxiety. He was on Lana pin. He was on a lot of different

[00:42:39] things, I think. And then it became very physical. He wasn't able to work. And so he was living with

[00:42:44] a girlfriend. Um, and he had been in process of trying to get disability for two years. He was

[00:42:49] finally, his daughter actually was awarded that six months after his death. You can imagine,

[00:42:55] you know, he's, he's going through a mental health crisis. He's not working. His girlfriend

[00:43:00] kicks him out of the house. He doesn't have many friends or much family to go to at that point,

[00:43:06] because he kind of just went, you know, for lack of better words, crazy. And maybe that was

[00:43:10] intentional that he started burning all those bridges down because he knew what he was doing.

[00:43:14] There are some differences, but there's so many similarities.

[00:43:17] Yeah. And he was just like, I don't want to be fucking homeless. Can't get a job. I can't get

[00:43:22] income. I can't work. I don't, what the fuck am I supposed to do? I'm an overweight 50 year old guy

[00:43:28] that has nowhere to go in this world. That's what's sad with him. I'm sure the desperation and the

[00:43:34] feelings. I mean, I know the feeling of wanting to be just done, but I'm sure just the hopelessness

[00:43:40] there is what pushed him over that cliff. None? No, he drove up into the Utah mountains. He went

[00:43:48] to mountains and parked his car and took all of the medication he had, which was a lot. And I think

[00:43:55] chased it with some alcohol. He was missing for two weeks. We didn't know where he was. I think he

[00:44:00] did that on purpose so that we couldn't stop it. And then on the 4th of July, he was found.

[00:44:05] Uh, someone on an ATV saw him in like his car in a parked campsite and they just figured it was

[00:44:12] camper, but they could smell. I mean, two weeks in the July sun and mountains. You can imagine the,

[00:44:18] yeah. So, and you know, and maybe that's why I reached out to you again. I don't know what's

[00:44:22] his anniversary coming up. I, maybe I just wanted to talk about all of this swirling in my head.

[00:44:28] Anything else you want me in your head?

[00:44:30] I think there's always things swimming around in your head. And I think I'm good.

[00:44:34] It has been good to talk about it. And I thank you creating that container space for me to do that.

[00:44:41] You are very welcome.

[00:44:42] What an honor that people would, would open up with these deepest, darkest things. It's,

[00:44:47] it's been pretty incredible. Personally, I'll say I, I, I like the directness because this has been so

[00:44:54] tempered down that we need voices like yours to really bring it out into the light without regard for

[00:45:01] making someone uncomfortable. We need these conversations.

[00:45:05] Life is sharp.

[00:45:06] Life is fucking sharp.

[00:45:09] Pop, pop, pop, pop.

[00:45:10] What do I have? Like a boxing image? What is this going to be a boxing movie at the end?

[00:45:15] This isn't a boxing story. I don't think, but Hey, you know what? I just was editing

[00:45:19] Nick in Finland. He'll be out Monday. He was an American guys living in Finland.

[00:45:23] Listen to the episode. If you want to hear more, but he's like a Australian football player and a

[00:45:29] professional wrestler. I'm like, people just do the most interesting shit.

[00:45:33] Super interesting. Right?

[00:45:35] Yeah. That would be part of his story. Cause you and me, we ain't restless. We ain't boxers.

[00:45:42] We ain't the rough kids.

[00:45:45] No, definitely not.

[00:45:46] A little bit broken. A little bit sad.

[00:45:50] What's the rest of your day look like?

[00:45:51] Moving.

[00:45:52] What floor are you on?

[00:45:54] Let me show you.

[00:45:56] I'm on 21. Can you see it?

[00:45:58] Yeah. It's cool.

[00:46:00] What floor will you be on?

[00:46:01] 21. This is 15.

[00:46:03] How hot is it there?

[00:46:05] Like 110 today, I think.

[00:46:07] Wow. Last question before we go. Do you think you're going to die a natural death?

[00:46:11] I don't know.

[00:46:11] I think you're going to die a natural death.

[00:46:13] I don't know either. I wanted to say, well, it depends on how we're defining natural death.

[00:46:18] But I guess if I asked you that question as well, I'll go with 50-50 as we're talking right now.

[00:46:24] So Alyssa in Arizona, are we good?

[00:46:27] We just talked about suicide for 80 minutes. I'm good.

[00:46:30] Yeah.

[00:46:30] You're good? Great. Let's go back to our lives. Everything's great. We're good.

[00:46:34] Yeah. Thank you.

[00:46:35] You're welcome. I appreciate it.

[00:46:37] Yeah. You too.

[00:46:38] Take care.

[00:46:38] Okay. You too. Bye-bye.

[00:46:40] Ciao. Bye.

[00:46:46] As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support.

[00:46:49] Special thanks to Alyssa in Arizona. Thank you, Alyssa.

[00:46:52] If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you would like to talk, please reach out.

[00:46:56] Hello at suicidenoted.com on Facebook or Twitter slash X at suicide noted.

[00:47:02] Check the show notes to learn more about the podcast, including our membership.

[00:47:05] And of course, if you've got a little extra time, meaning like 12 seconds,

[00:47:09] if you rate and review this podcast, it not only makes me happy, but it helps more people find it.

[00:47:15] And that is, of course, what we want.

[00:47:17] Thank you for that.

[00:47:18] And that is all for episode number 223.

[00:47:21] Stay strong.

[00:47:22] Do the best you can.

[00:47:24] I will talk to you soon.