Alisa in South Dakota

[00:00:00] So I had this thing once a week. I'd just like be so tired of life, so exhausted, so frustrated that I would be like, well, we'll see what happens. I'll take a full handful tonight and not say anything and just do it.

[00:00:35] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough and when we do talk about it, we are not very good at it.

[00:00:53] So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors, in large part to help more people in more places hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone. Now, if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk, it's real simple. Shoot me an email at hello at suicidenoted.com.

[00:01:12] I would love to hear from you. If you don't want to join me here on this podcast, but you do have something you want to say, in the show notes, you should see a link to leave us a recorded message and I would love to hear from you. In fact, if you give me permission, I will read it out on the air or just simply play it for our audience. Another option is if you want to write something up, shoot me an email first. I want to send you some information, but I would read that out as well.

[00:01:37] I want to get you and your stories out there, even if you don't want to talk with me. It's all good. You will also find in the show notes information about our membership, the noted network, our survivors support circle on the app signal and a bunch of other things. So check that out if you want. Now, of course, we still have a couple more weeks to go with our logo. The last one was the favorite, but I am trying a couple more out.

[00:02:03] Give me your thoughts in Spotify. There should be a poll. You can leave a comment. We are almost there and I really appreciate all of your feedback and input. Finally, we are talking about suicide on this podcast and my guests, well, they don't typically hold back. So please take that into account before you listen or as you listen. But I do hope you listen because there's so much to learn. Today, I am talking with Alyssa. Alyssa lives in Oregon by way of South Dakota.

[00:02:31] And she is a suicide attempt survivor. Hey, Alyssa, where are you? I'm just outside of my house. I live in a 988 square foot house. So and I would homeschool my son and my husband chose to be home today. So I'm like, all right, guys, thanks. OK, and you want me to say Alyssa in South Dakota when this episode comes out, not Oregon, though you live in Oregon.

[00:02:59] I don't want the suicide to be associated with Oregon. I want it to be every bit associated with South Dakota, where it was from. All right, you got it. Are you ready? Let's let it rip, man. I got so much shit for you. All right. So how did you end up in Oregon? I moved to Oregon on a 15 year dream of trying to get here to Mount Hood. And we moved here about a little bit two years ago in January from South Dakota, from northeast South Dakota. So that's like the prairie.

[00:03:29] That's the wasteland. There is nothing there. There is no trees. You can almost see the curvature of the earth. It is so flat and so nothing. I guess the first thing is that the South Dakota, Oregon difference is that I want to say that you can absolutely run away from your problems. That people say that you cannot. That is just bullshit. You absolutely can run away from the place that traumatized you and get happier. Interesting.

[00:03:58] OK, but yet, yet you you've dealt with some stuff there for sure, right? We moved out here and I did not know that it was a like a health care desert here. I moved out here, obviously, without a primary physician. I all of a sudden got into the most horrible pain that I've been in in my life.

[00:04:17] And it took four months to even see a doctor here, which just created my most close that I've ever been to killing myself for sure was here because of this pain. And beyond that, like I'm on Mount Hood, I'm in the most beautiful place in America as far as I'm concerned. And the people here are beautifully liberal and very, very open minded.

[00:04:43] And it's a really big like healing community here, you know, a bunch of hippies and yeah, a bunch of people who are just wanting to live organically and off the grid. Really, the difference in location for the election was a really good thing. Good. Did I thank you for being here? I really appreciate it. So thanks. My pleasure. I've been I've been a hardcore listener, I think, since right away at the beginning. I think so. The town I lived in in South Dakota was a town of nine houses. It was called Thomas.

[00:05:11] And so I'm not sure if you're like familiar with the apostolic religion. So it's very no TVs. Girls don't really have a lot of rights. Very, very, very conservative. Like the little kids that go to school with the other apostolic kids get teased for like wearing glitter in their hair and like just ridiculous crap. And so I would do my yard work outside with suicide noted blaring on the speaker. Oh, no way.

[00:05:40] So that's so interesting. So this little town in South Dakota is hearing my voice. Wow. OK, so Alyssa, how many suicide attempts do you have? I would say I have one actual attempt and I would say that I passively attempted for once a week at least for five years.

[00:06:04] So what I talk about with passive and like I can get into this with my whole story because I got a lot to say about pharmaceuticals. But I was now I know misdiagnosed with bipolar coming off of not like my child, my son, who is now 13. He didn't sleep through the night for two years. And that's my husband's soul. He's a really good husband, but he didn't get it at the time. He didn't get up with him ever. And I went fucking crazy. I went crazy.

[00:06:34] I think it was postpartum depression and lack of sleep. And I went absolutely crazy. And in South Dakota, where I was at when it happened, there was literally I'm telling you quite literally two psychiatrists in the entire state. Yeah. So you wait six fucking months to get in with them. And then when you do get in with them, boy, you better just go ahead with what they say or there's no more. There is no more help. You know, what was happening to me when I went in for that?

[00:07:04] And I got this bipolar misdiagnosis was I kept telling everybody every like cell in my being felt like I was about to jump out of an airplane. Like that's the level of fear in my body, in my mind, in my soul that I was living in. So I was ready to give attention to anything. Like I was literally vibrating, couldn't sleep like one moment. It was absolute insanity.

[00:07:31] Then once I got on the medication, like all they really did was sedate me with a bunch of stuff. And then like it I was so damn scared to get off of that medication. Then to have that go back and to have no support there, you know, where it's like, that's not a thing. So it's so interesting to the contrast, like you said, of coming to Oregon where I could not get into a actual like MD. But the mental health care is phenomenal here. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. And it's the fastest to get into.

[00:08:00] You want to see a psychiatrist? You're here like within two, three days. So it's so vastly different. But yeah, because you cannot get the help. It is. It's huge. It's huge. It's a problem. And then it's just such a harsh environment to live in. I'm talking in every way. Like we're talking the weather. It's miserable all year round. It's either 100 degrees or like literally we'd go like three weeks with it, like being not above zero.

[00:08:28] Every bit of the snow stays, you know, like it's just awesome to live in. And then the political environment makes it just so harsh. It's just a really harsh place. Okay, so I'm guessing you're not vibing with the general politics in South Dakota, that part of South Dakota. No, no. And I just had to like cut off a bunch more of my family. How old are you? I'm 42. I have a husband. We've been married for 13 years and we have a son that's 13. And then I have a daughter who is 19.

[00:08:57] So tell me what was going on with you in South Dakota, particularly around your attempt. Yeah. So the crazy thing is once I was on those medications for like three or four years, the psychiatrist really, really trusted me. And we had like a relationship built up. So she gave me such a wide range of how much medication I could take in the day. So I was on nine different medicines that whole time. She never pulled me off one drug.

[00:09:23] I just got everything up for nine years, just up and up and up and up. And so it got to the point where like this one drug specifically, Seroquel, where like it will knock you out. Like, I don't know if you have any experience, but it's bananas. Right. And like my prescription was go ahead and take 100 to 500 milligrams a day. And that got filled every single year, you know, for all those years.

[00:09:49] And so I had this, you know, thing once a week that I would probably about once a week, I'd just like be so tired of life, so exhausted, so frustrated that I would be like, well, we'll see what happens. I'll take a full handful tonight, not say anything and just do it. And when was this happening? So that would have been probably like 34 to 38. So it was like after I'd been on some medication for a while. So I had this buildup and it just kept coming.

[00:10:18] This buildup just kept coming and coming and coming, you know. So I got on that medication. So I might have my years wrong, but I got on that medication. Yeah. When my son was like two and after I'd been on it for like three years. So when by the time he was like five. So, you know, I think that there is some misconceptions about postpartum. I do think that it can travel for years and years and years in a woman's body. And I don't think that we have anything that's, you know, been researched about that.

[00:10:46] For one thing, like, you know, the disruption in your sleep pattern that it causes. Like then your brain learns that disruption and could get that back. Like I've never gotten it back, honestly. I've never, ever gotten it back. I'm off all of the medications that I was on originally. Yeah. I mean, that's still like I'm going to like exploring like a sleep therapist and all the things because I'm really wanting to be off all those medications.

[00:11:13] But I would say that because I was permanently treated for a temporary problem, the medication put me into these spirals. I also think that there is this strange dynamic that happens where when you're diagnosed with something and you're so convinced because everybody's telling you that you have that,

[00:11:37] that you almost start acting in those behaviors, whether it is your true diagnosis or not. It's like you and your therapist have this like weird play going on between you, right? Whereas like they're expecting some behavior to come out of you and somehow then you show up with that behavior. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. What else was going on then? Okay.

[00:12:02] So I was worried about losing custody of my daughter when that all was going on, when I was like feeling like going crazy, like I was going to having to jump out of an airplane or whatever. I didn't want to be like committed to any place or anything. But I think now if I had that to do all over again, I would say put me away someplace for a month so I can just sleep. Just put me to sleep for a fucking month. Like give me a catheter and whatever it takes and let me sleep. That's what I think.

[00:12:31] I think that I would have come out of it. But because I was on these medications, I think, you know, nine different medications, like all the big ones, Kwanipin, all of that stuff. Man, I really just dove, dove hard. And it got to be a few, maybe like four years into this bipolar diagnosis and like my husband and my dad would start to be like, you know, maybe, maybe you should get off that medication. Maybe, you know, and I was just so scared. And then it came to like the last year that I was on it before I moved here.

[00:13:01] I was ready to get off the medication, but I was so scared of withdrawals. And like, how do I pull my life together while I'm getting off of all this damn medication? So when I moved out here, I didn't have my psychiatrist, like gave me like four months worth of like prescription. And it was so hard to get the prescriptions filled. That's another thing with health care where it's like the obstacles to just taking care of yourself. Right. So like how many trips to the goddamn pharmacist does it take to fill your prescription when

[00:13:30] you have nine different scripts that you can only get on a month to month basis? Like it's so hard. Yeah, it's absolutely absurd. So let me ask you a question. How long have you been thinking about suicide? When did you first start thinking about it? Kwan, I don't think that there's been a search bar in my life. I haven't typed suicide into fascinated with it, interested in it always since I mean, you know, like 42. I'm of the generation that I could start hacking away on my computer when I was like, you know,

[00:14:00] like 12 at home. And by then I was already interested in it. Huh. And at some point you stumble across this podcast. Like I if I remember right, the summer of 2020, I had some to catch up on. And that's when I started like listening to it outside at my house. So the little tiny town of Thomas in South Dakota knows about it. And then I listen every week, every Monday in my shower. That's where I catch up with it. So my kids have heard it.

[00:14:29] My husband's heard it. Hi, kids. Hey, husband. So I want to get to your attempt. But you also mentioned something about passive attempts. And I'm wondering with those passive attempts, what was the method or methods? The passive was always pills. It was like I really, really thought that I wouldn't. But I would have totally not minded if I didn't wake up. Yeah. I wonder how many people are in that spot or space right now listening to this. Who knows? You know. All right. Let's get to it. The attempt. OK. So can I start one step before that?

[00:14:58] There was no attempt. But when I was nine years old, I wrote a suicide letter that my and I didn't like give it to anybody, but I remember writing it being like, oh, so and so cousin gets these teddy bears and that kind of thing. And then I had a waterbed at the time. And there's like a square empty space where you could like shove stuff underneath there, underneath the headboard part. And I put it underneath there. And my mom found it. And I thought about this. And then my dad came and said all the right things. We love you. All the good things. All that stuff.

[00:15:28] And I'd wondered about that for a long, long time. Like what exactly was going on in my life? And I just asked my parents about it recently and they didn't know either. But in this pain that I've been in this year, I have been unfortunately recovering some memories. And I know that I was sexually abused when like maybe a year before that, before I wrote that first suicide note. So that I think is where the origins comes from at that age.

[00:15:56] So there's the actual first, I think, like inklings of it. And so then my actual attempt, it was a really, it was a nothing day. There was nothing extra bad. There was nothing good. It was just a typical gray winter day in South Dakota. And I was on all these medications. And I was miserable. All I could think about was leaving, was like going, taking a trip. I had no joy in my day-to-day life.

[00:16:25] Like absolutely no joy. And it was one of those situations where I was like, I've checked off all the boxes. I got my college degree. I had a good job. I have two beautiful, healthy children. I have a husband who adores me. And the guilt of how you should feel in that like got to me where I was like, I am such a disgusting person for not feeling the joy in this. All I feel is just dread and sorrow. So much dread. All there was is dread.

[00:16:55] And I was working at a newspaper at the time. I was selling ads. And I left for lunch. And like I was just like in sort of a daze. I wasn't thinking about anything in particular. And I came up to an intersection. And I was just like, I'm just going. And like it was not much more of a thought than that of just like whatever happens, happens. I really hope this is done.

[00:17:20] It's like silly because, you know, it was an intersection in a small town. Not in, you know, in the bigger town, whatever, in Watertown, South Dakota. But it was, yeah, that was my attempt. I knew what it was. I sailed through, you know, people stopped and honking or whatever. Sailed through. And I drove home like I didn't even pause. Like that all happened. And I didn't even, I didn't even pause. I just was like, hmm, like in this daze. And I just drove straight home. Didn't go back to work.

[00:17:49] And I just called my husband and told him. I was like, I just drove through an intersection. And kind of we went over it. And then my two really good friends at the time, he called them and said, I think you should come tonight. You know, they lived a couple hours away. So they came. And, you know, we just then kind of went about business like it was like it never happened. And it seemed so anticlimactic. But like I know in my heart like that it would have been that that that was my real time. The dread took over.

[00:18:18] I could not handle having nothing to look forward to and just being unhappy anymore. And the pills kept me feeling like I was underwater. All those medications. I was on all those. It felt like I could barely breathe. I was so sedated. I guess the intent was there. The intent was to not face another day the way I was facing my days. It sounds so cliche, but like existential dread. The world, the universe, like it's all feels bad, you know, a lot of times.

[00:18:48] And there feels like to be no hope. And, you know, I used to like laugh at like my my daughter growing up. She'd be like, I could never bring a child into this world. But now as I get older, I'm like, yeah, I pretty much get that. But, you know, I'm like, yeah, I get having that foresight that you're like, I'm not going to do this to another human. Well, what was it like to attempt to drive through that light and still be alive? Yeah, it surprised me when I did it, like where I was like, huh, so I can do that.

[00:19:17] So in some ways, I guess it opened up a door. I, you know, I had a therapist way back that was really decent. And she said that when the human brain is like butted up against problems that there are no solutions for, your brain will find the solution. It's what your brain is made for, you know, and her thing was like, don't be so bad. Like her thing, this therapist was like, yeah, everybody thinks about suicide, everybody.

[00:19:44] And that's, I mean, I talk about it a lot here and I'm really like for the death and dignity thing. And I've had friends reach out to me, in fact, from South Dakota and Tennessee since I've moved here who are in bad pain situations asking, you know, how hard is that to get to? And where could you do that? And those things. So, yeah, I don't know. I think everybody thinks about it and very few people talk about it. Well, they sure as shit do on here. It's really amazing.

[00:20:11] I literally look forward to this podcast every week and have for the whole four years. So like, that's something right there. Like if that goes no far beyond that, you're giving somebody something to look forward to. That's something. That's something to put into the world, you know? Thank you. So tell me this. You've been listening for a while, but you didn't reach out until somewhat recently, right? When you're in Oregon. I wanted to talk to you after I left South Dakota because I, when I got here, I got off all

[00:20:38] those medications because all the resources, it was like, it was like an alcoholic thing. The people, places and things changed. And I couldn't get a hold of the medication that easily. So I weaned myself off and then spent four months in the most horrendous hell of withdrawals that you can think of all on my own here in my new house on Mount Hood. But it was, it was really bad. It was everything that you would ever, you know, think of. It was lesions on the skin. It was like, couldn't stand up straight.

[00:21:07] It was vomiting. It was shitting. It was no sleep. It was every bit as bad as you could ever imagine getting off anything. Only from what I hear, heroin only takes like two weeks of withdrawals. These medications left for, it was four months straight of as bad as I can think of being sick with nobody to do anything about it, you know? So, but when I got off of those medications, I was like, yeah, now we can talk. Now I want to talk. Now I'm clear headed.

[00:21:36] Now I have things to say. But truthfully, my anxiety was still really, really out of control. And like, just, I don't know, something got to me that day where I was like, oh my God, I'm just going to hide from the universe instead. And then I felt terrible about it. And I couldn't even listen to the podcast for a little while because I felt so bad. I was like, oh my God, I feel so terrible about this. So when you reach back out, it was like, oof, like what a breath of fresh air. So I really appreciated you doing that.

[00:22:02] And because I had more to say because just this year when I went through this degenerative disc disease, because I'm three months out from spinal fusion surgery is what has happened. Still not in a good way, but my pain is under control. And I have some hope that my future will be, well, I don't know. Nerves take like two years to heal. So I don't know how much pain I will end up not coming out of with this whole thing. But I have hope now that I can at least live through the pain.

[00:22:29] So this year, like with this pain, I couldn't get a doctor to even believe me that I was in pain because this goes back to the pharmaceutical bullshit is I got off all that medication by myself, then go into a doctor. And now I'm just an unmedicated bipolar patient. So nobody believed me when I did get into these doctors. So it took three, four months of just fighting that like while I was like in bed, like I couldn't walk. I smoked cigarettes at the time. I would crawl outside, just smoke a cigarette and crawl to my bathroom.

[00:22:59] And no, but I couldn't get people to believe me when I was in this pain. Finally, I got ahold of a surgeon who did like x-rays while I was standing up and in like the most horrible positions. And he's like, yeah, your discs are completely gone. You don't have discs left. He's like, you have to have this. So then because nobody had told me then like you have to be quit smoking for like two months or a spinal fusion won't bind, you know, it won't like bind to your bone. So then I had to quit smoking before the surgery, like amongst all the things. I'm like, super. I love it.

[00:23:29] Oh my God, I was so pissed. And so then I quit smoking and then had the spinal fusion. Now I am here right now. But during the pain of it, I was, I couldn't get into a doctor for the death and dignity. So I had made an appointment. This is something I'm questioned bringing up on here because I can't believe nobody's brought it up that I've heard. But I made an appointment to with my doctor to sign a DNR because I was going to kill myself

[00:23:57] here at home and I didn't want it to get messy for anybody. And that was because I didn't know when your spinal cord is being compressed, the kind of pain that can come from that, from your scalp to your toes, like nobody should have to live through that. Did I hear in just the last few episodes that you have pain shit too? I have some ongoing back stuff and also from years ago and undiagnosed or perhaps misdiagnosed immune condition. But mainly these days, it's a back thing.

[00:24:25] I'll tell you the biggest concern for me, well, the pain kind of sucks, but it's living alone. That is a problem. Yeah. Oh my God. It makes me so worried about single people. After I went through this, I'm unbelievable. My husband's best friend is single, lives in Denver and has like been through a bunch of car wrecks. And I, so he's got pain. This has been eyeopening. I did not know. I did not know about this world of pain. Yeah. So how many people know about your attempt? Your kid? No, my kid doesn't know. My husband knows.

[00:24:55] And my very, very dear friend, Erica knows. I met her like two years ago when I moved here. I went in for a massage, like a just like, oh, I feel good massage, you know, here on the mountain. I met her through that. And she really, really probably helped save my life because this year through the pain because she's the massage therapist. Like you've never, I don't know. I didn't know that this kind of like body work existed where people can make you feel loved

[00:25:23] and seen and heard and actually physically better through physical touch like that. But especially growing up in South Dakota, like, don't touch. We don't touch, you know, we don't hug. We don't touch. Get away. You know, she was my physical therapist and has become just the dearest friend through throughout all of this. And I will tell my friend Paula, probably she's like pretty religious. Like she during this whole thing, like she would come and pray over me like when I couldn't get out of bed, which was a little weird for me.

[00:25:53] I was like, OK, you know. But the idea of putting out positive energy over you is something that I think I can accept that feeling at least. Sean, I'm so sorry. It must be so rough. Yeah, I've done some research on this when my daughter is really like not affectionate and I was worried about it. And the deal is like, yeah, the human body to like maintain like appropriate serotonin

[00:26:21] and dopamine levels need seven to 12 hugs in a day. Isolation in our in our society, like it's not how humans like I think I'm like you like I'm like, fuck society. I really don't want to be like that big of a part of it. Like I really would wish it would disappear. But the honest to God truth is, I think we were all meant to live communally. We were meant to have some community in our life. And like this society is not set up for that. The touch thing, Sean, is so big.

[00:26:47] I lived in Minneapolis for a while and I worked in a restaurant there and the kitchen was all Mexicans. And like these guys were the bomb, you know, so much fun. And they were all here just making money, you know, sending it back home to their wives. All of them had wives and the kind of starved they were for affection. Because at first I'd be like, why are we hugging so much? Ease up on the hugging, you know. And then one explained it to me. They're like, we're just there's a bunch of men just living in this house together,

[00:27:16] you know, and they're like, no, we just don't get it. And so one thing that I would do for them, because I was like a little too much with the hugging. I braid their hair. They would melt, you know, like these tough guys just absolutely melt. It's it's a real big thing being touched. And I didn't realize that I was getting all the hugs and the love in the world, but not in a in like when Erica would take me into the studio for to have somebody who their direct

[00:27:42] attention was to not just make you feel hugged, but to make your body feel better. That's like, I don't know, it's real grace. It feels like grace over your body for some reason. It was really important. Oh, I bet. Yeah. So throughout this time and until today, do you have any hospital stays? No hospital stays. I have experience with it, though. My had to commit my daughter when she was 14 to a hospital in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. You know, I don't think it was terrible for her.

[00:28:12] But, you know, like I couldn't visit her like 14 damn years old and like I wasn't part of the problem. You know, like that that wasn't it. The way I handled it with her, like she she was just going through terrible times. And I said to her, she's just bawling in her room. And I said to her, what happens if you still feel this exact same way in a month? And she just looked at me and shook her head. No. And I said, OK, well, we got to go with them. We just got to go. So then it was like we because she said yes, like I really wanted it to be on her terms,

[00:28:42] not anybody else's terms. Like keep this in her. Yes. Not like somebody's forcing it on her because I would have if she'd have really freaked out at the hospital, I probably would not have been able to leave her there. But man, when we took her when I took her in and saw the room that she was staying in and stuff like that, it broke my heart. Like, oh, is this a hospital or is this prison? Which she did OK. I don't know. You know, I got the packet, too.

[00:29:07] So I get like the paperwork of what you get from the hospital from a kid being in there. And I have to tell you, it didn't look like there was much that happened other than they diagnosed her with ADHD and PTSD and got her on some medications that they regulated while she was there. Yes, that might have been the really good part was like they could mess with that without having to go back into the doctor. But her, you know, it was a lot of like coloring and stuff like that, which maybe that's what she needed.

[00:29:34] Maybe she just needed like a pause from life altogether because she did say when she came out and it kind of speaks to this like younger kid, bad social media stuff is that she was grateful to not have her phone for that time. At 14 years old, for somebody to admit that, like it was bad. So interestingly enough, she went through and did really well. And can we talk about the complication of feeling suicidal at the same time as your kid?

[00:30:00] It's such a mind fuck trying to save your kid at the same time that you don't want to be saved. It's intense. It's a really, really intense situation to be in that probably compounds everybody's stress. Really? Like, you know, I was just talking about this. Like, I can be so liberal with my views on suicide, with the whole death and dignity thing, like what Canada is doing. Like I can be, I mean, I'm liberal amongst liberals. But when it comes to my kids, there's the hard stop.

[00:30:30] It's a fascinating topic that way. I've found here in Oregon that people are just way more open about everything. So I've really, I've not found a thing that's been off topic here. The Mount Hood itself is like only 20,000 people live on the whole mountain. It's a huge mountain, like so all sides of it. So it's like small community and it's really like grassroots and rejecting anything corporate

[00:30:55] type of place, you know, like the big, the big place by the, by the ski resort has rejected being an incorporated township even. Like it's just like outlaw kind of around here. And when I, like, for example, I went to this farmer's market and this chick, I met her like two times and she's like, you wanna, she's like, I really think that we, you should come over to my house and we should sun our Yonis together. I was like, girl, I'm from South Dakota. What are you talking about?

[00:31:23] But you know, like there's just an openness here that I didn't, I didn't know existed. You know, I'd lived in a few places in South Dakota and then in Minneapolis and, and here, here it's talked about, I would say. And, you know, maybe that has to do with the homeless population also in Portland. We're 30 miles from Portland. When I say that, it's like, oh, that's kind of not far, but we like the mountain versus Portland is like a universe different. Like you could be a culture shock if you moved from one to the other. It's so different.

[00:31:53] Like when you think about the homeless population, here's another point that I wanted to bring into this is that those people might be the most hopeful group among us because they have syringes. They have all the drugs. Fentanyl costs less than a dollar for a pill here. They have it all to take their lives every single day at any moment. And they're all still out there trying like, damn, they're living in the most difficult,

[00:32:22] you know, crappy conditions in a nice place, granted, but you know, like it's bad. And all they would have to do is just like air in a syringe, you know, like it takes nothing. And they don't like mostly they don't. How could there be a population of 10,000 of them constantly? You know, I don't know. That's a really fascinating facet of that part of the suicide thing is like who really gets into that spot? Who is, who is done? Who's all the way done? Hmm. Yeah, that's interesting.

[00:32:52] I've never thought about that. Wow. Yeah. So what are your diagnoses that you think are accurate or that you agree with? This year I got diagnosed with PTSD and I think that that's real. And I think I know I have ADHD. It's raging bad ADHD. And that's like a funny one to like talk about. Like there's a lot of ways to laugh about that, but like can like absolutely be so destructive to your life. Really bad. And I, until I got diagnosed with PTSD, like my daughter got diagnosed with PTSD and like

[00:33:21] I could accept that for her and all that. And like, but I had really, maybe it's my age or the generation, but I had really still associated that with like soldiers, big time stuff. But now like I'm reading the body keeps the score and I'm doing some therapy on that and stuff like that. And I'm like, oh yeah, it's a big time. I mean, it's, it's affected everything. So I talk about a lot about the accumulation of my life when I, okay, so I'm now I'm working

[00:33:49] on four decades here and I can like, uh, okay, here's, you know, sexually abused in the first decade was in an abusive relationship. That was the bad power dynamic in high school, uh, then married an abuser, uh, got divorced, went through an affair with my now husband, which is like a very traumatic thing. Honestly, like it's so destructive. And then my bipolar misdiagnosis.

[00:34:16] So I'm like, yeah, it starts to feel like the accumulation of my life where I'm like, I have so much to get over. Are you kidding? Like it's, it sounds like so much work to get over it. And you didn't even mention your back. It's the brand new one. Right. Exactly. I just had spinal fusion. I'm learning to accept the fact that my back doesn't move in the ways that it used to, which like doesn't sound like just verbally like that much, but it is hard to accept.

[00:34:44] There being hardware inside your body that makes it so you can't move, you know? And like, I'm trying to wrap my head around being like grateful for it, but it's uncomfortable, you know, like I can feel the rods against my spine when I'm sitting around and I'm like, it starts to feel like the accumulation is so big. Like I've been considering wanting to do, um, EMDR therapy and I've done a lot of research on about it. And I'm like, where do I even start? I'm like, what, what incident do we start with?

[00:35:14] You know, and like how, yeah, the accumulation gets, gets, uh, really intense. But I have read too, that if you don't have PTSD, you don't look at life that way. That's what I've read. Like, oh, I was like, are you kidding me? So some people don't see the baggage. Like it's not always, you know, and it's not like seeing how future baggage could be coming down the lane. Like here's my new fear with my back pain is that somehow the universe is preparing me for something horrible. Like I went through this.

[00:35:42] So now maybe my kids are, and that's like a future preparation for me. You know, I'm like, you have to know so that you can handle this next catastrophic thing. So one of the people who sexually abused me is dead and the other one is already in prison. So now I'm like just spending my time pissed off at my dad because he can't, he didn't protect me, you know? So like, yeah, if I get rid of one thing about that past thing, like I'll move on to a different facet of it.

[00:36:11] That is 100% Sisyphean, right? Is that, did I say that right? No end to it. No, especially when nobody's ever going to pay for anything. You know what I mean? Like there's no end to that. There's no taking responsibility. My ex-husband's never going to do a thing for, you know, raping me. My high school boyfriend's never going to get a thing for punching me in the face. Like nobody's ever going to have anything. I think since I've moved out here, I have been unmasking.

[00:36:39] Like right now I'm getting also getting, uh, going through the questionnaire stuff with a psychiatrist or psychologist for autism too. So I think that I have been like unmasking since I've been in Oregon because I have nobody to hide from. I know zero people, you know, like who cares what I act like it's anonymity again, like sets you free. I think that the unmasking has been, it's like shadow work. It's unveiling stuff. But I do, I do have some hope.

[00:37:08] Got out here, got off the medication, went through the withdrawals two and a half months before this pain set in of out here, of feeling good and like being out and like making community here, which I never had community in South Dakota. And I had this glimpse of like, holy shit, I might be able to be happier than I knew to dream for. So as I'm coming out of this and healing is a really screwed up thing too, or like, you

[00:37:38] know, I got this surgery. It's sort of, I'm not in as much pain. Like there's this image, like you're supposed to be happy. And like, dude, I'm still doing five hours of physical therapy every day. Like I'm still in it. When, when I pull all the way through that, I have a glimmer of hope, honestly, that I might've made enough right choices by getting here and cutting off the people I needed to and investing, planting seeds here in this community that I might have the existence that I've

[00:38:08] been, that I've been dreaming for. And this is the first time that I have felt this other than that little short minute. This is the first time that I felt this maybe since I had kids, maybe in 19 years. I feel like that's a sort of double-edged sword. Maybe hope can be a bit scary. A little scary. Isn't that interesting? That hope gets to be a scary thing. You get addicted to a certain kind of sadness. And I, as I was going into this, all this pain, I kept saying like, oh my God, I don't want

[00:38:36] this to be an identity thing. Like, I don't want, like, I don't want to be the spinal fusion girl. I don't want, you know, like, and now as I'm coming out of it, it's sort of weird. Like I feel a little attached to pain girl. Yeah, for sure. And also like, how do you come to terms with or sort of reconcile what kind of could have been or lost time? Absolutely. I have so much of that with being on all that medication for all that time. Like, that was the major chunk of my children's childhood.

[00:39:06] Like, what the fuck kind of mom could I have been if I was not feeling like I was under six feet of water that whole time? Yeah. What kind of wife could I have been? What kind? What? I've barely been able to, like, I get really good jobs and can't hold them down. Like after three years, I'm done. There's no, there's no left in me, but I'm like director of sales job, project manager jobs. Like I can get the big jobs. And then I at the, you know, three years, that's it.

[00:39:35] That's my mark. And I feel like it's, you know, all the intensity, all the baggage stuff, that baggage, the accumulation of life feels so heavy. How many people can you talk to about this stuff? Really talk to about it? Three. I can talk to my husband and I can talk to Erica and I can talk to Paula. And it's so interesting too that like Erica and Paula I've met since I've been here. And like they, first of all, dispelled the myth for me that like you can't really become

[00:40:02] good friends with somebody in later adulthood because that seems like a hard thing to like get to be friends with somebody when you're a grownup, right? Like it's a hard thing. So anyway, so that was really good to meet them. But they, I could tell them and my husband and I have like weirdly open conversations, you know, like we're, we're all the way there as a couple to, to just discuss how it really, really is. Like during the pain and stuff like that, it was, I was concerned because we didn't even

[00:40:31] know if it, you know, because when your spinal cord is being compressed, like it is, it's atypical pain. It's pain everywhere. It's pain nowhere. It's pain right now. It's pain, you know, stabbing and burning. And, you know, you can't describe it because it's so much. So when we didn't really know what we were going to do about it, I was like, concerned about, I'm like, what, I don't know if I'm going to lose like my ability to talk or to take my own life. And I was so concerned about that.

[00:40:59] And I'm like, how am, how am I going to tell you? Like we, we're, we were all the way there in that relationship. And he's like, I will know in your eyes. He's like, we have that relationship. Like we're soulmates. I will know in your eyes. And there was a day and I, cause I got these steroid injections in my back and they made the pain way worse. Like five days after that, I was just laying in bed moaning. And he came, I came in and I looked him in the eyes and I was saying it with my eyes. And he's like, oh my God, today's the day, huh?

[00:41:29] And I was like, yeah. And we like started to make plans. He's like, okay, how do you want your funeral? How do you want this to go? He's like, because of the kids, I can't be the one to do it. You know, he's like, you're going to have to be the one. Cause I will tell all the truth to the children and I can't live with that truth. I can't, I can't tell them that his was his thing. And I'm like, okay, okay. Yeah. Whatever it is. But, um, so we started to talk about making plans for everything and how we wanted it all to go.

[00:41:57] I was kind of like deciding on how, you know, like we have a gun in the house and then there's the fentanyl downtown in Portland here, you know, like there would have been ways. And then like two days later, I started to get some relief from this, from these steroid shots and it gave me enough hope to keep going. But in all that, I had made that, that do not resist state appointment with the doctor because I was like, no, I'm not like, let's not mess around. I said, like, I'm not about to get into more pain.

[00:42:26] You know, uh, there's a fear, there's a fear of what could happen. And you've spoken to people of the misery when your attempts fail, like, holy, oh, I've listened to it on there where I'm like, that's not, that's not all right. And I, and you know, like I was hanging in for my kids. Like I was trying to think like, how, how long can I take this? Like I was setting a date in my mind, like, okay, well, if this is still like this in a year, that's done, you know, like you have to forgive me for this.

[00:42:55] It just has to be this way. Thinking about the memoir title, Alyssa, I am not sure right now. I literally do want to write a book and I was, uh, I want to, so I had this thing, like I've always kind of wanted to be a public speaker. Um, since I was a kid, I used to be really, really good at it. And like when I was a director of sales, all my jobs I've had, I've always had to do public speaking. And now I'm like, I have a real story, this spinal stuff, the suicide stuff, the, the moving, the, all that stuff.

[00:43:22] And I was like looking at your thing because I'm like, how do I, how do you get a book deal? And my husband's like, you get a podcast. So that's how you get a book deal these days. Ain't one publisher that has reached out to me for a book deal. God damn it. Well, your subject matter, you know. So the title, any ideas? I have thought about it a little bit. Something about being able to like, you can move away from your problems. You can run from your problems.

[00:43:48] Something in that vein of like, like run, run, go ahead, run far fucking away from your problem. Like at least the trauma stops you getting, like you stop getting re-traumatized if you get away from that. And, and honestly too, my, my daughter turning 19 and like, so she turned 18 when we were out here. So like I got to stop dealing with my ex-husband. That that's been helpful. When you get to stop being re-seeing the people that traumatized you, it gets easier. What else helps if anything?

[00:44:18] Oh my gosh. Well, I've thought about this question a lot because I think you, I want re, I want further definition. When we talk about help, what is it? What do we mean by helps? Because there's, there's two things. There's helps you stay alive. If that's what we're looking for. Helps me stay alive is my kids and my husband and living here, living here on this mountain. Like I'm getting out here is everything. It's my church. It's my steeple. It's my choir. Like I love it.

[00:44:45] As far as making me feel better, music and cannabis make me feel a lot better. I think those two things, talking to a good friend, talking to my friends, one friend. I can talk to my one friend about it. The other one is, you know, she'll bring up too much Bible-y stuff, you know? So yeah, I would say honestly, music, cannabis and talking to my one friend and my husband. But I would not recommend people just like, oh, feel better by talking because I think

[00:45:15] most people will make you feel worse about it. A hundred percent, right? Like the whole just talk about it. And this comes up a lot on this podcast. Just talk about it. It's like, uh. I know. I'm like, well, not actually. See who you're going to talk to first. All right. Pink and purple pill question time. So I give you a pill. I know you know this for the audience. Alyssa takes the pill. She goes to sleep. No pain. She dies. And nobody knows it's a suicide. Oh, I would definitely take it and put it in my pocket.

[00:45:43] If I were to ever get into a pain situation like I've been in now, no human should have to live through that. I've thought a lot about this question too. Like I take a lot of cruises here on mountain roads and I've spent considerable amount of time just thinking about this question while I'm cruising. Because like what pops into my head sometimes is we should maybe every single person should just be given one of those is like, how radical is that? How I'm so left, right? I'm so I'm so radical.

[00:46:12] But what if everybody had a way? Like, I'm so interested in your person that had a family member who was homicidal that killed themselves where I'm like, yeah, how many how much is that of that is going on? You know, where people are just doing the right thing. I mean, did I say that out loud? But come on now. Like, wow, that seems like a fairly honorable thing to do. So anyway, I have a lot of thoughts. I've spent a lot of time ruminating on the pink and purple pill.

[00:46:39] So I would take it and put it and keep it in a safe place. I don't always ask this question. But if I were talking to Alyssa when she was, let's say, half your age, so 21, any words to your younger self? Well, Sean, I'd say wait to have kids. I had my daughter, you know, when I was 23. God, that's such a hard thing because I will share this with her, too, at some point, you know, but it fucked me up having a kid that young.

[00:47:10] And I know like 23, that should be like, I don't know, you have it together. And her life was all right, you know, but I didn't get a moment to live. Her life is pretty good. But like this, like I moved in with her dad right after high school. And so I took care of him. He was very much wanting to be taken care of. And then I had a daughter. And, you know, like life moves on. And like I've never lived alone a moment in my life.

[00:47:37] I've never I've never explored me. And and I've been like doing that on the side of being a wife and a mom. But like, God damn it. I think I'm a pretty interesting person. And like, I'm pretty multifaceted. Like I'm a hippie, but I'm also, you know, can like kick butt in corporate world. And like I have the things, but I haven't gotten to stretch my stretch my abilities. Because once you have a kid, you just got to put them first, you know.

[00:48:05] And so I would I would to myself. And because that is where postpartum depression also started with her. That's when my whole journey of pharmaceuticals started was 19 years ago with her. So I would say that would be it is like hold off. Get out of this relationship. Go live on your own. Go adventure. You don't need to be taking care of nobody. At that age. But yourself. That would be my advice.

[00:48:33] OK, another sort of twist on that question is now any words to your older self? If you're around, of course, let's say 42 plus 21. I don't know what I I don't know why is 63. So like my 93 year old grandma actually just like found a way out here in all this. She lives in Texas and South Dakota and found a way out here to see me. And when she was out here, I think she came to see me because of the spinal fusion stuff.

[00:49:02] I thought to myself, like she's gone through like in her 40s. She like she claimed bankruptcy and had colon cancer and, you know, had six kids and ran a farm and all that crazy things. And, you know, so in in the lens, I kept seeing like she went through these hard things and she's so peaceful. Like there that there there is an other side to this. So I guess in my hopeful in my hopeful mindset, I am.

[00:49:30] What I'm saying is from 64 to right now, I'm saying there's another side to this. There's the other side of the rainbow. Pink and purple rainbow, maybe. Tell me this about Oregon. So what are there? What are the laws there about ending your life? Well, they were I believe there was at the first or the second in the United States to do it.

[00:49:52] I know it takes two doctors to write it off for you and that a two week waiting period, which they are in legislation to try to bring that down to two to two to three days, I think. Because, yeah, if you're in pain, you know, I just a friend of my friend Paula has a co-worker whose mom just just took advantage of it.

[00:50:18] And her deal was she had fought cancer for like five years and had gotten her death and dignity medication a few years back. So she had been holding on to her pink and purple pill until she was done. Wait, so you don't have to do it at an office or a hospital? No, no, no. They just give it to you and then you take it home. And you just you can do it on your own. But like if you just want to die and you know, you don't have a quote like terminal illness, then what? No love. No love for that.

[00:50:47] Go to Canada, I guess. Get your with their at least considering that. It's so interesting because I have faced like now like the the suicide hole from the physical pain side and from the mental pain side, you know, like during during the pill situation. That's that's where I was at. It was I was so hopeless that it actually was physical pain.

[00:51:10] You know, it was such a dread and and I hate of my day to day life and it had nothing to do with anything around me. So so I know that that can be every bit as painful as this physical stuff. So in my opinion, that absolutely the death and dignity should extend to mental health. Absolutely. But no, for right now, it doesn't here either.

[00:51:34] But but I think people are just a lot more are a lot more loving about about the entire situation, though. Well, like you said, a bunch of hippies, right? Hippie daddies, hippie mommies, hippie everyone. And the hippie mamas because I homeschool my son, you know, so like that's part of my identity. I like that. So counterculture, you know. Any myths or misconceptions you want to dispel? Well, I mean, the biggest thing is that that killing yourself is a weakness.

[00:52:01] I think it takes unbelievable guts and strength to do it. And and it's like it's a fight against nature. So I don't know if people really understand that. Like think about when we're trying to fight against nature. It doesn't usually work. It is in our absolute like our physical being to keep ourselves alive. So the second part of that is when you see someone you when there is someone in that position that they are they are there.

[00:52:30] Know that something so unnatural is happening internally that they cannot bear it and that there are situations that cannot be bared. There's things so big and so great that it is OK. It is OK to just rest. And I think that is a big thing when when it comes to anybody that I've spoken with that like it really that are really all the way there. They're so exhausted.

[00:52:58] They're the most exhausted humans on Earth. You know, they're exhausted in their soul. The other one is that it's hard because your audience probably already agrees. But in general, the the myth that medication will help. In my case, I have to say medication from a doctor absolutely ruined my life for the greater part of a decade. I couldn't think straight. I ruled my life. I took it four times a day. So be careful.

[00:53:28] I think really, really be careful with those medications. And the shitty, shitty part about that is you're almost always in such a desperate situation when you go to go for that help. So that you're you're in a spot, you take whatever. Like I swore coming off these medications that I would ask every single doctor that ever tried to put me on anything. What does it take to get off of this? Because like, why isn't that a part of it? And and I didn't in this pain situation.

[00:53:55] Now I'm once again actually in a medicated situation that is going to be horrendous to get off of. I'm on this medication called gabapentin and it's for nerve nerve pain. And it is horrible to get off of. I'm on the max dose. I've actually pulled myself off of one pill. And it was such bad anxiety and puking and, you know, upset stomach and like feeling like your skin is itching and like it's terrible.

[00:54:19] So once again, I'm in a situation where I'm I'm I don't even know exactly how much pain I'm in because I can't get off this medication. So I would really, really caution people about medicines and that if you can, if you are in a situation, ask people what it takes to get off the medication as you're getting on it.

[00:54:39] And then the other key is, I think, to the moms out there, like I want to dispel the myth or, you know, that like you become stronger when you become a mom. That's not necessarily you just learn to put other people in front of you. So just to the moms out there, like if you're hanging in there because you're a mom, like if you're hanging in there because you're a mom, like I see you, I respect you. And that's all like there's there's nothing to be done about it.

[00:55:08] You know, like you you have a kid, you love a kid and there is some like obligation to staying for them. And that is a hard thing to deal with at times when other people are are leaning on you. Yeah, I guess that's about that's the only thing I absolutely like on this podcast is is amazing. I've told so many people about it and there's some people that are following because because I've let you know or let them know about you. And I don't know.

[00:55:38] It's a it's a breath of fresh air to just have people be freaking honest. Like, why can't we just be honest? Like what you talk about, like us talking about it, that does not make another person feel suicidal. No, that's not it at all. You know, like it's a connection. And that's that feels really, really important. You know, kind of goes back to the hug. Like, is this is this is there? This is our connection. This is our hugging each other. You know, connection is important.

[00:56:06] I've heard before that connection is the opposite of addiction. Yeah, I was I've thought of on that one a while, too. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. When people get connected, you kind of have a way of like pulling yourself out. You feel valued, you know? Yeah. Yeah. What's the rest of your day like? I have not started my physical therapy. So I'm going to be doing physical therapy.

[00:56:29] I have like probably three hours of doing it in the house and then I have to take a walk for about an hour and a half and then I'll make supper. Start again tomorrow. Homeschool and homeschool Mount Hood hippie mama, you know, doing hippie things. You think you'll listen to this conversation when it comes out? I will listen to it. I hate my voice so bad, but I really, really been like putting out there to the universe and manifesting that I want to start my own podcast. Let me tell you this idea I have really quick.

[00:56:58] I want to start Good Enough Nation. That's going to be my podcast. That's my whole thing. And it's like got social media with it because I live in Good Enough Nation. Like so many people cobbing together their shit in their life and not in a bad way, in a way that I absolutely love where it's like you don't have to go through all the pretty pretties. You don't have to do the extra. And then we get the side of it where it could be like, you know, where it's like we examine health care. Is this good enough?

[00:57:26] Is this good enough nation? You know, and or or, you know, it's it's the roads or it's it's, you know, whatever. It can be small things, big things, but good enough nation. I want it to be like a discussion of like what's good enough in your life. Where are you stopping? Where do you say quit? And that's good that you're quitting. You know what I mean? Where do you learn to cut ties?

[00:57:50] So it's an interview interviewing regular people, community people, community leaders, whoever it is. And you really start to discuss where like the real shit of good enough. We can't make anything perfect. You know, nothing's going to be perfect. So where's good enough? Where do you stop? Where does it affect enough people that it's worth it? Like any topic. But is it good enough? Well, this was good enough for sure. Thank you so much, John.

[00:58:20] This has absolutely been my pleasure to talk to you and to be able to share and having somebody to bear witness to people doing their lives in their own way, in whatever way they're struggling through it. Like what you're doing, bearing witness to people is just it makes me emotional because it's really, really important. And I thank you a lot for it. Well, I thank you, Alyssa, very much. I appreciate you. Awesome. Thank you so much, Sean. I appreciate you. Go do your day.

[00:58:50] Bye. Bye-bye. As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support and special thanks to Alyssa in South Dakota and Oregon. Thank you, Alyssa. And oh, by the way, since we talked, Alyssa did launch her podcast, Good Enough Nation. I believe she is up to episode two. Have a listen. If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you would like to talk, please reach out. Hello at suicidenoted.com.

[00:59:16] If you have a comment, a question, an idea for our logo, please go to Spotify and leave that comment or respond to that poll. Or you can reach out to me on social media or email. You can check the show notes to learn more about this podcast, including our membership, the Noted Network, which is primarily podcast training and all kinds of other cool things. So check that out if you're curious. And of course, if you have a moment, rate and review this podcast. It really helps people find it. And of course, that is what we want. So thank you.

[00:59:43] And that is all for episode number 256. Stay strong. Do the best you can. I'll talk to you soon.