September 24, 2020 

SW = Sean Wellington, ZI = Zachary in Illinois

ZI: I survived this and needless to say, I'm still here. So what does that mean for you? They say, I don't know, but I'm like, well, you can't know yet because you haven't done it, but you know how you can know? By living your life.

SW: Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. And when we do talk about it, many of us, including me, are not very good at it. So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with attempt survivors. I'm going to try. We are talking about suicide this may not be a good fit for everyone. Please take that into account before you listen. I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn. If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to share your story I would love to talk you can email us at hello@suicidenoted.com  This is officially episode number 20 and I want to thank everybody for your support, for listening, for letting people know about it, for rating or reviewing the podcast. I really appreciate it. We've had listeners in 55 countries. I'm really glad, genuinely glad that these stories are getting out there. These stories of survival matter and they need to be heard. People in places like Holland and India and Uruguay and Laos have tuned in. Today I am talking with Zachary. Zachary lives in Illinois and he is a suicide attempt survivor. Hey Zachary. 

ZI: Hello. 

SW: How you doing?

ZI: I'm doing pretty good, how about you? I'm a little nervous though.

SW: No, I'm just going to be a friendly dude. 

ZI: Yeah I can tell.

SW:  I try. Well, most people see my head and they think I'm not, but yeah. 

ZI: My dads bald.

SW: Oh, great. I love that. Well, seriously, I do appreciate you being open or whatever you do share with me. I appreciate it. I do. 

ZI: Sure, anytime.

SW: Where are you, by the way? Where do you live?

ZI: I'm in Illinois.

SW: Illinois, in Chicago?

ZI: Not in Chicago, but I'm near there.

SW: Nice. Most suicide attempt survivors don't talk about this in a way that you are seemingly comfortable doing with someone like me, people who might hear on a podcast. And I'm always wondering how it is that you came to be comfortable or comfortable enough to talk about it publicly.

ZI: Well, it was because like back in those days, I was always talking, I was always posting on Facebook about how depressed I am and all woe is me and things like that. And like, eventually I started saying I want to kill myself, in fact, I posted a I posted goodbye on Facebook that I'm killing myself goodbye. Like that I had had enough and I'm doing it. So my friends were fully aware of what was going on, and thankfully some of them took it seriously and called the cops.

They called 911 immediately and I was definitely pissed at that because I wanted them to leave me alone. I wanted them to let me die. But thankfully they didn't do that and the cops got to me and the ambulance.

SW: When was that?

ZI: The exact date of the first attempt was June 23rd, 2017.

SW: June, you remember the exact date.

ZI: Yeah, it was between 10 and 11 a.m.

SW: Was there a particular reason why it was that date or time?

ZI: Well, it was because the night before, like I was already having a stressed out night. I went to work angry and sad because I had just had a fight with my folks. And then my phone was on airplane mode. But when I got out of work at about 11 PM the night before, I received a notice that, well, one of my brothers texted me saying, what are you doing? Our stepmom just walked out. You're tearing his family apart. And then I received a text from both her and my dad saying I need to move out by the end of the month. So I was like, I ain't doing that. I'm done. I'm doing this tomorrow. For like the eight years prior, me and my stepmom had always had issues with each other, partially because like my brothers were calling her mom. And I was like, that is not our mom. Our birth mom's our mom. Because she's still in our lives. And I was like, how quickly my stepmom came into my life like and how quickly her and my dad married. It was just so big of a change for me. Like I just couldn't handle it. And I was like, I'm not listening to this woman. She's not bad by any means. I'm on much better terms with her now. Hence why I moved back in with her. What I would say is that I just want another authority figure and I was a very independent being to begin with. So I didn't like taking orders.

SW: And that was June, 2017. Was that the attempt when you were referencing earlier that you posted and people helped out? 

ZI: Yes, Yeah.

SW: That was that. Okay. And so what happened after that when your friends responded that way? Like, did you go to a doctor? Did they come over?

ZI: I believe that one of them messaged my dad to get the address because my dad wasn't aware of the post. He actually came knocking on my door and threatened to knock it down when he found out what I was posting. My stepmom was behind him and I pointed at her and said, you're the reason for this. And I told him what I had done. I had stolen a thousand milligrams of his blood pressure meds and swallowed them.

SW: Oh you had?

ZI: Yeah, I had already done it.

SW: I didn't understand that. I thought that when you posted that you were sort of threatening to do it. But you had already.

ZI: I’d started the process.

SW: Wow. What happened after you took that medication?

ZI: Well, the ambulance got to me before the effects started to kick in. But like I noticed I was sort of fading in and out, like everything was going, like it was going fuzzy and things like that. And they were pumping stuff in and out of me. had IVs in me immediately as soon as I got into the ambulance.

SW: Yeah.

ZI: One thing I remember specifically was they made a point of saying the meds hadn't settled in my system yet. So they had me drink the charcoal mix instead of pumping my stomach. That was the most disgusting stuff I've ever tasted.

SW: But it helped.

ZI: Yeah, it got all of it out, but I was vomiting black sludge for two hours. But there was one memory that stood out. My older cousin, like she was the first like grandchild in the family. They said, you have a visitor. And I'm like, who? And they're like, your cousin. And I'm like, which one? And she pops in. And I'm like, what are you doing here? She's like, I heard about what happened. And I told my daughters and I came right over. I was still vomiting the black sludge. had a crescent shaped dish in front of me to do that and a nurse on standby to wash it out every time I emptied into it. But one thing that I remember clearly is that she asked if she could hold my hand, my left hand. She took it in her hand and she actually held the vomit bucket in the other hand. And she told me I was going to be okay, that I could get through this, that I was one of the strongest people she'd ever met. And I found it really, really soothing. And it was a really standout moment for me because it helped me get closer to her as I recovered.

SW: I bet. I bet.

ZI: Yeah, and I felt so bad for her that she had to say this and watch me vomit.

SW: Right, understandable. But she stayed.

ZI: Yeah.

SW: Was she the only one that visited you?

ZI: I know my stepmom didn't visit because I said to hell with her, don't bring her here. I think my dad visited at one point. I know my biological mother visited at one point. This wasn't the only suicide attempt. I did it again in November.

SW: Right. So that was June 2017. That was the first one. But in same year that was November, you tried again?

ZI: Yes. Yeah. And the reason for that was like, I had just gotten in a car crash that the police listened me at fault for. Because I was in a blind corner and I couldn't see the cars coming. It just raised tensions between me, my stepmom and my father. My father was more concerned with my safety than his car. Normally when other people are in the car with me, I get anxious and I tend to drive a little fast. And she's like, I don't want you driving my car. You could crash it too. And we just got into this argument that said it's either I'm going to try again or I'm going to move out. And they said, okay, you're moving out tomorrow. We started making negotiations for my mom to take me in. I was just all over the place. Like I was in a very hateful rant and there were several things I posted about my stepmom on Facebook that almost lost her her job. I did feel bad about that because like of how hard she works and I was doing everything I could to discredit her and put her on as an evil being that needed to be slaughtered. I did this for quite a while and my dad often had to ask me not to post this stuff on Facebook because people would see it and circulate it.

SW: Right.

ZI:  And like, I didn't realize it, like in my hate-filled vision, like I didn't take into account what that would mean in the long run. I didn't realize the chain reaction that would occur if that happened.

SW: Yeah.

ZI: But back then, I was only cared about making her suffer as I thought she made me suffer, which definitely wasn't her. It was my own anxiety and depression, like coming to a high point.

SW: Right. Yeah. So when you first tried in June, and then you were okay, you got through that, right? Your cousin came, the hospital helped and you got out and then…

ZI: I didn't exactly get out. I was sent to a psychiatric facility to monitor me for at least a week.

SW: Okay, how was that?

ZI: It was very interesting, I was a little distressed that no electronics were allowed.

SW: Mm-hmm. Right, right.

ZI: I was like, I'm on my phone all the time. This isn't going to work.

SW: Right, that's not gonna help. That's not gonna help.

ZI: I didn't have access to my blindfold because they thought I could strangle myself with it.

SW: What do mean your blindfold? Do you use a blindfold often?

ZI: Yeah, I use a blindfold to sleep to keep all light out. My eyes are very sensitive to light. So, and we have to keep the bedroom doors open so I see the hall light and it shines right on me. So I had to deal with these mattresses that were very, very low to the ground, these sheets for blankets. So I often asked for like four more sheets so I could feel warm. And it was a very interesting experience. We, it was optional, but we were to go to groups to like check in every night and these meditation groups, these life skills groups. I didn't do too many of them in that particular facility because I was so frazzled and I didn't know what to do. I just wanted to get out of there. But it was very interesting to see other people like me and tell them why I was there and like to see what they were doing and see how they were getting past it. And there were times where I saw some of them break down and I wanted to help. I wanted to see them be OK because I had survived what I had just survived.

SW: Sure.

ZI: And while I was still in a very bad place, I wanted to see how these people worked and I wanted to see them get better too. Mind you, it took me four  psychiatric facilities before I got what I needed. And that happened all in the course of like 10 months.

SW: So between June of 2017 and the last stay at a hospital where there was something that worked, in that time, you had also tried the second time in November.

ZI: Two of the times I was stopped before I could, and two of the times it was because I had attempted.

SW: That sounds like a tough year,

ZI: The last hospitalization was in April, 2018. The main thing that helped besides me attending the groups was that they finally changed my medications. Now I'm not saying medications work for everybody, but with the state of my problems, because I also deal with disabilities. Like it's really helpful in keeping my anxiety under wraps because unmedicated, my anxiety is like an 11 out of 10. And thus my depression is the same way because they're linked.

SW: Right, yeah. So you found meds or they helped you find meds that are working. Good.

ZI: Yes. I've been on this particular medication for my anxiety for two years and it's really done me wonders, but I also needed to find other ways to improve things. And one of the things that I did like after my final hospitalization was I went through my Facebook because my Facebook was full of negative stuff from my friends who were posting woe is me stuff too. I started going through my friend's list and I cleared out like half my friend's list so that that negative stuff stopped appearing. And that actually lightened my mood quite a bit after the fact. And I was able to focus more on the people who would stay in my life and actually care.

SW: Yeah. So you have people in your life that do care.

ZI: I've had some moments recently where I was kind of down and wondering like what's going on in my life and if I'm going to go any farther. And I've actually had some people who responded to my post and actually messaged me privately asking what's up? Like, do you want to talk?

SW: Yeah.

ZI: I have a couple people close to me that are like that and that just makes all the difference.

SW: Them being there and reaching out and saying, want to talk or something like that. Wow. I wish people who hear this really heard that. That type of thing would sound small. Isn't so small.

ZI: Yeah, because one of the illusions that people who suffer from depression and anxiety is that no one hears me. No one cares. And I truly believe that. And in my, in my depression, I believe that there was no possible help for me, that I was just going to fall into an abyss that I could not get out of.

SW: Yeah. Now you, so you were formally diagnosed with what did you say? Depression and anxiety. Yeah.

ZI: Yeah. And I have Asperger's syndrome, as well as ADHD and I have bipolar type one. So I've had manic episodes where I've been on top of the world and then I devolved into saying, I want to kill myself.

SW: That's a whole lot of things to try to manage.

ZI: I actually remember some of my manic episodes and like I changed so quickly. It was insane. I scared myself.

SW: Really? You went from really high to really low?

ZI: Yeah, and it happened very quickly and the lows lasted longer than the highs.

SW: How quickly are we talking about? Like hours, days?

ZI: The most recent one, which was back in 2018 when I was off my meds for a little bit because I didn't have any insurance at the time. Uh, like I experienced a really big high for about an hour and then I started seeing things that kind of made me falter in that. And I started sinking and then I stayed that way for at least a couple of days. Like I just had to get myself off Facebook because I was starting to get down and I stopped wanting to do anything. And I think I just went to bed early just to kind of get away from the emotion.

SW: Yeah, social media can be dangerous, right, if it's not handled well.

ZI: Yeah, I'm on social media all the time. As you know, the YouTube channel you found me on,  that's an extension of, of the Facebook page that I, that I showed you where I've been running that since 2013 as an outlet to help others who that was actually started as a page to help others be more positive by showing them a person who, despite their disabilities has overcome so much and can excel beyond their wildest dreams if they have the determination to. And then they started seeing my struggles as I started falling deeper and deeper into depression. Then when I started those YouTube channels, I'm still not terribly consistent with those, but I knew that some of my platform like to watch more than read and some of what I had to say needed to get out there in that kind of form. So I made those suicide videos to show people that like what happened to me and what I did to get through it and how I bounced back. And I made two of those videos because one was for the first attempt and one was for the second attempt because I wasn't expecting the second attempt to happen. This was after I had moved in with my mom like literally a week after. She saw me in tears and she hugged me and told me that I was gonna be okay and I told her I was gonna be okay but she was unaware that I had my Seroquel in my back pocket.

SW: What does that mean?

ZI: I didn't let her know what I was doing. I asked for the pills to the med box and I took all my sleeping meds. 

SW: Oh, so you were gonna overdose. 

ZI: Yeah, I did a huge overdose, but thankfully the meds weren't fatal. They weren't the kind that would kill you. Because I took a lot of it. When I woke up either the next day or the day after that, like,  my mom told me what happened, like when she had to call the ambulance, he heard a thump and she saw that I had fallen out of bed and I was trying to get up, but I couldn't. And she was trying to help me up and she called the ambulance and. When the ambulance got there, she said, I muttered, god damn it, before passing out.

SW: What did you mean by that? What do you think?

ZI: That the ambulance came to save me again.

SW: So I was going to ask you both of the times that you attempted. Maybe this is a weird question. So if it is, you can tell me that. Did you want to die?

ZI: I believe I did want to die. Yeah, both times I went into it meaning to end my life. I didn't care what was gonna happen next. If there was an afterlife or anything, I just wanted to be done. I used to fear death, but after these near death experiences, I don't necessarily fear it, but I'm not ready for it yet. I think that I need to see where life takes me first. And when it's my time to die, it's my time to die. But until then, I need to make an impact on others' lives while I still can.

SW: And is that the reason or one of the reasons why you started the YouTube channel and the Facebook page?

ZI: Yes. And I started the Facebook page back in 2013 when I was 15. Yeah, it was a long while ago. So people got to watch me grow. And then the YouTube channel started maybe a year after that, but I wasn't on anxiety meds then. So I was so anxious about doing videos that I was afraid to be in front of a camera.

SW: Yeah, I'm afraid to be in front of the camera too, but we're doing it. We're doing it. That's the thing, right?

ZI: Definitely.

SW: What do people say in response to your YouTube videos or your Facebook posts? What's some of the stuff that people say in response to those things?

ZI: Some of them say it makes their day and have made them see things in a different light. And some of them, it just makes their day. They're like, I needed to see this today. Thank you so much. They just want to see me keep on going and going.

SW: How does that feel?

ZI: That feels very empowering because it knows that not only are my opinions cared about, but people actually see me for who I am. And it's like, just like I empower them, they empower me. I write these posts so that not only do I feel good about them, but it can make them feel good. And it's this whole feeling of reciprocity. I don't have too many comments all the time, but a lot of them are repeat comments from people who follow my posts  to the number. And it'sw: really nice to see those people are still engaging with me.

SW: I bet.

ZI: A lot of them are adults of people who are on the autism spectrum. Like it gets them insight into their own child's mind. Like, why are they thinking this way? What is causing his actions? And some of them have asked me like, how do you get through this? And I'm like, it took me a long while to get there.

SW: And I imagine you're not entirely done. It sounds like a process, right?

ZI: Yeah, I was very, very severe as a child, especially in the autism realm, because I was running up and down hallways screaming and crying. And I was often being restrained with my arms and legs locked behind my back.

SW: Oh man.

ZI: So that certainly didn't help with everything. And then the divorce between my dad and my mom happened and that started the whole cycle of what was going on with me. Like not only had my parents separated, my mom was a filthy traitor. Then my soon to be stepmom came into my life. I loved her at first, but then as she started taking on more of a mother role, I started resisting her. Over a while, it was just a very continuous cycle of me and her going back and forth. And we just made each other anxious like...She was anxious to come into the house because she knew I was there and we just seemed like ticking time bombs, like one of us would set the other's trigger off.

SW: Yeah, you had said earlier, depression, anxiety, bipolar, Asperger's and ADHD. Is that right?

ZI: Yes, I also have a form of dyslexia, although that doesn't really tie into all this.

SW: It might be, I mean it's all connected in some way right?  It's how you're experiencing the world.

ZI: Yes. Sometimes I have trouble comprehending words. It's not words floating off the page, but I have trouble understanding words and their meanings. And sometimes it makes my body lock up when I try and do too many things at once. So I'm not a good multitasker. My page, my Zespi page is more to help people understand that there are people with disabilities out there and that we can think like normal people. Just have different ways of seeing the world. My whole lens, my whole point is that I don't necessarily have disabilities, I just have a different lens to view the world with.

SW: Have you been able to find people and connect with people who are dealing with a lot of, because you're dealing with a lot of things. And I imagine there are some other people out there that everyone's different and unique in their own way, but have you found people who are dealing with some of the same stuff or maybe even all of the same things?

ZI: I do have friends like that, definitely. I went to this organization called RAMP, we had a luncheon and I actually gave a 20 minute speech on my life. And this was before the suicide attempts. I gave a speech on my life and like what it took for me to get there. I was a junior in high school back then. And then actually the next year, I think it was March 3rd or 4th of 2015. It was when I was 17. I spoke in front of a high school of 500 about my life as part of a special needs  assembly for the whole school. And not only did I get a standing ovation, but a lot of the special needs kids asked to take a picture with me.

SW: Very cool.

ZI: Yeah, I actually posted pictures of that on this Zaspie page.

SW: Cool. I'm gonna make sure to connect that page in the show notes so if people hear you, they can find the page.

ZI: I would really appreciate that because I haven't talked about my suicide on that page in a while because I assume people want a break from it as I have much more to share. But I want people to know that this is a very real issue and that someone you know could have been affected by this. As a survivor of that, I like to talk about that to  let you know that this is very real and that someone you know has done it. And the person you viewed as so high and mighty, is not all that high and mighty after all, that he's human.

SW: We all are, yeah.

ZI: There are days where I'm down and depressed and other days where I am on top of the world. But that is all part of the human experience. That is what we need to do to be successful in life, to have the human experience.

SW: What do you think is the biggest or one of the biggest myths around? It can be around suicide or suicide attempt, suicide ideation. What do you think people just are so wrong about?

ZI: That's a tough one.

SW: And it could be more than one, you the stuff that makes you think, man, they just don't get it.

ZI: Well, they think that you have to be depressed to be suicidal. Like it's not always depression, but it can be like in a very, it could be in a very, very heated situation. And like something out of the blue can just happen to you, like something very life shattering, like losing your job. Your child has died. You don't have any underlying systems of depression before then. And like, you just feel the need to join your child or to that you'll never find a job. Your whole life is going to fall apart. You'll lose your house, your benefits. You'll lose your, your husband or wife. And they're like, there's no point going on. Let's just edit.

SW: Right, like a circumstantial.

ZI: Yeah.

SW: It's complicated.

ZI: It's very complicated because suicide attempts aren't just a spur of the moment thing, like they can be planned out. Mine was years in the making because I was depressed for a long time. And back before I was taken out of middle school, I literally asked the counselor for a knife.

SW: Wow.

ZI: I was getting bullied all the time and like at my brother's birthday party, I broke down in tears and said I don't want to do this anymore. I went back to school to try and go through the winter break. And like one of the kids said something very derogatory to me. And I was like, I'm done with that. But like we moved into, we moved to where I'm living now and I went into high school and there weren't too many bullies, although there were some ones that like to prey on me in particular and keep it going. They were very immature in their thinking. Now that I look back on it and like it was just a buildup every now and then, but more importantly, like I didn't have a love life and I saw all my friends in relationships. They seem so happy, so happy to be with the person they were with. And it was like, I'm, I'm ugly inside and outside. No one would want me. Like what's the point if I can't even have a girlfriend? There were several people I expressed interest in and I actually had the guts to tell them and they gave me various reasons as to why we can't be a couple.

SW: This was in high school?

ZI: This was in high school, yes. That definitely played a role in where my depression was going.

SW: Right, sure. Did you finish high school?

ZI: Yeah, I did. I took a year of college at where I'm going now. Right where the semester ended is where my depression started reaching this peak. Like I literally attempted a month after school ended. So after that, like as I was recovering, like I took two years off of school and then my mom and her fiance  convinced me to go back to college saying like, I'm not going to be stuck in my current job forever. I need a real career.

SW:  Do you know what you'd like to study or what kind of work or career you'd like to have?

ZI:  I'm looking into computer programming at the moment, although social work does appeal to me. I think that I could do that on the side in a way. I got to figure out how I would do that. But right now I'm leaning towards computers because I have always been a technology junkie. 

SW:  That makes sense. And there's a lot of jobs in that too. That sounds like a smart choice.

ZI:  Yeah, I don't know any of the languages yet. I'm hoping to really start that next,  next semester. Right now I'm actually looking into IT at the moment. I'm actually taking an IT course. Well, it's another way for me to get into the technology field, like get my foot in the door. That doesn't mean I'm going to give up Zaspie and everything like that. Like that page has become part of me.

SW: Cool, Z-A-S-P-Y, right? Zaspi.

ZI: Z-A-S-P-I-E.

SW: P-I-E, okay.

ZI: Yeah, it's a mixture of my name, Zachary, and then ASPE, which is a name for people on the autism spectrum. It's a nickname.

SW: That's cool. Clever, creative. If you and you may do this sometimes, let's say people hear you and me, this podcast, wherever they are and they're in a similar situation or dealing with some of the same things that you were dealing with, especially like in 2017, I realized you don't know them. Like you don't know their names or where they live or all the details, but they're struggling in the same way or a similar way to you. What would you say to that?

ZI: Here's the thing. Your life is not over yet. Your life is in your own hands. You choose what you want to do with it, but make sure to think like, think about this.  you say you're giving up, right? You're still breathing. So you haven't given up yet. I believe that giving up is death. And if you can find a way to hang on, if you could find a way to talk to someone, even if it's just a friend or coworker, that's a sign that you haven't given up. That you still want to live, even if it's in the tiniest speck of your existence, you still want to live. So you still have a chance. You just need to recognize that and take hold of that chance. Otherwise you'll lose that chance forever.

SW: If somebody said that to you when you were at the peak of your pain, June 2017, that might've been a little bit hard for that to resonate, right? So it's tricky when people are really, really in the Valley, really low, like everything you're saying makes sense. But I wonder, can they take that and say, yeah, you know what? What Zachary's saying makes sense. He's right.

ZI: Sometimes like to get the message in you gotta explain it further. Maybe even repeat the message. I have I have done this several times with a lot of my friends who were feeling down maybe borderline suicidal and It has helped them especially because they knew that I was being attentive and that I was listening to them Yeah, like that. I understood their pain. Like I told them I've been through this so I know exactly what you're feeling, and I I survived this and needless to say, I'm still here. So what does that mean for you? They say, I don't know, but I'm like, well, you can't know yet because you haven't done it. But you know how you can know? By living your life. Letting it play out.

SW: Do you think, I know this is also, this is another hard question, I think, especially now we're in this lockdown and Corona. Do you think you will try again? Might you, let me say that. Might you try again?

ZI: I honestly do not think I will because I am in a much better place than I have been all my life because of the resources I have and because I'm determined to see others succeed. And I have also put forth the message that in order to succeed, you need to live. One thing I've gotten used to is asking for help, which is something I used to never do. So if I'm feeling down, I'll make a post about it and reach out to friends to see if they have any ideas.

SW: For people who are hearing this and they have someone in their life who is in that kind of pain. The message that you would say to people who are in a position to help or support but might not know exactly what to say or do, what would you say to them?

ZI: I would tell them that these people have a lot of pain in their lives and they just don't know, they just don't have that outlet to speak. So the best you can do is listen, let them know that you're there, that you're listening, that you're supporting them. And one key phrase I would say to tell that other person is you are enough. And then it makes you wonder, where can I go to find this help? And then you've got that friend who's listening to you, perhaps that person's help you need.

SW: And now that you know, sounds like you've learned a lot of things. One of the things that really struck me was this, the importance of listening, like it sounded like your cousin did when she came to visit you. Do you think now that you've gone through all this stuff that you are now in a position to support others and do it and do it more effectively?

ZI: I would definitely say that I am honestly. I wish that my Zespi page got more  interactions. Like not a lot of people message me. People could interact on my post and ask for a hand. I'd be willing to talk to them personally and help them through like do the best I could to help them out. I'm like, obviously I'm not going to be all the help they need. Like they need to decide for themselves what they need, but I can at least be a listening ear so that they can get their thoughts out and see if they're open for feedback.

SW: That's true. Yeah, that's good self-awareness.

ZI: Definitely more so now. If you genuinely care about someone, remind them of it, especially if they're in the situation I was in, you need to remind them that you're there and that you care so that they don't have the assumption that you're just another person that's disregarding them.

SW: 100%. When you are able to have some free time, I know that you said that you do a lot of things on your phone or online. What else do you do for fun? I'm just curious. This really has nothing to do with suicide. Just what does Zach like to do for fun?

ZI: I usually play video games on either my 3DS or my Nintendo Switch. Or when I'm on my phone, I watch movies on my phone. I've got a huge collection of iTunes movies that I bought. I sometimes play with my brothers. I hang out with them. I watch YouTube videos with them. We just laugh our butts off. I'm a very stereotypical nerd in that I like sci-fi action movies, superhero movies. Although I like them to have a darker tinge to it. Oftentimes it's very interesting that I like

more negatively toned movies, but it's because there are some aspects of the movie that not only trigger my emotions, but it makes me feel more hopeful in a sense. Because some of them have gone through all sorts of adversity and all sorts of hell only to rise up on top and fight back.

SW: I get that. Have you ever watched Black Mirror?

ZI: I've watched a few episodes of that. It was five years ago in a rhetorical analysis class, but they were very, very intriguing.

SW:  Yes, I agree.

ZI:  I don't remember, I can't remember for the life of me any of their plots, but it was a very, very intriguing show and I recommend it to anyone who wants their brain messed with.

SW: A little bit messed with for sure. Yeah. I'm a pretty curious dude, so I can go on and on and on and on. But what else would you like to share about your experience as it relates to your mental health or suicide or recovery or sort of really open-ended stuff that especially I may not have asked about?

ZI: I never thought I would get that close to what happened to me. Like I never thought I could get that close to the end. And honestly, bouncing back from that, like has been, has meant the world to me because I, I've been able to grow from it. And like, I've been able to stay, I'm taking these steps to make sure this doesn't happen again. And I have the resources, I have the friends and I know what I have now so I can utilize those things in order to stay safe and to make sure people can trust me. And in order for people to trust me, I also need to trust myself and make sure I have the mental capacity not to go that route again. And as of right now, I am very good. And the medications are doing their job and I'm taking life one step at a time, although I try and take it like one mile at a time sometimes.

SW: Couple steps at a time.

ZI: Yeah, but people who have attempted suicide, it could be your friend, it could be your neighbor, it could be your cousin. You don't know who they are until they share their story. And a lot of people are afraid to share their story because they're afraid they'll be looked down upon. Like, how dare you try and end your life? How weak can you be? That is not a sign of weakness. That is a sign of insecurity. It's a sign of unwellness. If they need someone to talk to, they can come to me. They can feel free to message my page and I'm usually a very fast responder. And although no one has taken me up on that,  I would definitely be open to talking to others who need someone to talk to, even if it's not about suicide, if they just need someone to talk to understand. I am someone who's always open to listening and I, whenever I feel very, very good inside when I can help another person, when they say I've actually helped.

SW:  Well, thank you, Zachary, for sharing all this.

ZI: All of you that are listening to this, please know that, like I said before, you are enough. You can get through this. You have not given up yet. You are still breathing. You can get through this. If you choose to follow the page from this podcast to my own page, feel free to ask me any questions you have about how I got through this. And I am more than willing to share with you because I am an open book. Like I share every facet of my life because I know it will help others and I see no shame in what I've experienced, because I've experienced a lot, a lot of taboo subjects that don't need to be explained here, but that would help people understand that you're not weak for experiencing these things. Rather, you are just human and you have experienced these things. But more importantly, you can get stronger from the things people would perceive as being weak.

SW: For sure, for sure. That's a very nice, a very kind invitation. If somebody links to your page from this show, they can message you, which is great.

ZI: As long as I can benefit people, I'm going to keep that page running. I'm really looking forward to sharing this podcast to my page, especially when it launches, because I am hoping that a lot of the people who see, who listen to this really get a sense of what I was going through and what my thought process is on all of this.

SW: Yeah, and I think they will because you were so open and honest which is, yeah, it's why I do this, is to find people like you who are courageous enough to share and share openly and honestly. And I know it helps people and it sounds like you know that too. So thank you.

ZI: It was very much my pleasure because if someone could hear this and it saves a life or two, like that is what I'm here for. Like I want you to live your best possible vision. And even if you might not have that vision, like upon  stopping what you're doing, you can create that vision for yourself as you get back on your feet. Because you are enough, you can do this. You just don't believe it at the moment, but we...but us as friends and as fellow human beings can help you realize what you can do, how you are as a person. I will definitely be promoting our particular episode quite a bit.

SW: Do it. Promote it. I want people to hear it, especially if they need to hear it. And I think people need to hear it. So cool. Thanks again, Zach.

ZI: Yeah, no problem. Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity. I'm glad you found me.

SW: I'm glad that we found each other and it's my pleasure and I thank you for doing it and being bold and just taking the time to share. So thanks.

ZI: My absolute pleasure.

SW: All right, man, I will be in touch with you soon. And like I said, if you have any questions or any thoughts about this, feel free to reach out. We can continue the exchange via Facebook, but I hope you keep doing well, man. I'm glad to hear that you're doing pretty well and I hope that keeps up for you.

ZI: So do I, and I will make sure it happens.

SW: As always, thanks so much for listening and special thanks to Zach up in Illinois. If you want to check us out on social media, you can find us at Suicide Noted. We also have a YouTube channel. If you're a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to share your story again, please reach out. Hello@SuicideNoted.com  Until we connect again, stay strong, do the very best you can. I'll talk to you soon.