Courtney in Louisiana Interviewed by Sean Wellington

July 18, 2020 

Suicide Noted Podcast; hello@suicidenoted.com 

SW = Sean Wellington, CL = Courtney in Louisiana

CL: The cowards are the ones that see these people do the things they do and don't reach out to them because they're scared of what they have to say or don't know what to do. They just stand up and say what they want to say. They don't know what it feels like and judge people. Those are cowards.

SW: Hey there, my name is Sean. On this podcast, Suicide Noted, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so we can hear their stories, their stories in their words. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives. That's plural. And we don't talk much about this. And when we do, well, we're really not very good at it.

So that's my goal. Have more conversations with suicide attempt survivors and have better conversations with them. We are talking about suicide. That means it's probably not a good fit for everyone. Please take that into account before you listen. But I hope you choose to listen because there's so much to learn. Today I'm talking with Courtney. Courtney lives in Louisiana and she is a suicide attempt survivor.

SW: Hi Courtney. 

CL: Hey, how are you? 

SW: I'm good. 

SW: Thanks so much for joining me. 

CL: You're welcome. 

SW: So I want to hop right in and ask when it was that you first started thinking about suicide. 

CL: I remember when I was 10 years old wishing to die, but at 14 it was like all of a sudden just

suffocating, obsessive, suicidal thoughts started and they just lasted. 

SW: So for somebody who's never had those thoughts, is there any way you can describe them? You said suffocating.

CL: It's so painful, you can't describe it. What I think of, like, if you think of someone who's terminally ill or a terminally ill cancer patient that's on, that they do assisted suicide with, and you would put them, you would slowly let them die because of their pain. The pain you feel mentally is equivalent to that pain. I believe. 

SW: And that was when you were 14.

CL: Yeah.

SW: Okay. And so I know when we shared some information with each other before we started talking, and one of the things you shared with me was that you've had many attempts or several attempts, right? 

CL: Over 20 for sure. 

SW: Okay. And I'm curious about how you tried, and I do know that for some people that's very sensitive. So share whatever you're comfortable sharing if anything around How you tried and why you chose that.

CL: The first time, well every time really has been overdoses I've literally felt like what I thought was life leaving my body. Only to wake up again. 

SW: How does that feel?

CL: It's scary. It's really scary. Because you have doubt. But you know that there won't be any more pain or you think that anyway. You don't know anything after you're dead.

SW: How does it feel to want to do that and then wake up?

CL: I opened my eyes the last time I attempted on a ventilator with doctors and nurses standing all around me. And the first thing I thought was, “I really didn't die again?”  And after that, I made a vow to myself that unless it was a hundred percent guarantee, I'm not even going to waste my time to try anymore because, you know, it's cliche to hear, but all these people say you're here for a reason. I'm not going to make it through over 20 attempts for nothing. You know and life is hard and it sucks, but I'll be 31 Wednesday and I finally have somewhat of a will to live and I really am glad that I didn't die.

SW: I want to ask why you tried and I know that that's a massive question, a big question that probably is not a simple answer.

CL: I just don't feel like I'm worthy of anything. I don't think that if I'm breathing or if I'm not, that it will matter. I mean, not in this moment, but when I'm, when I'm suicidal, you know, I mean, you know, I don't think it's cowardly when you're in, when you have to physically fight your body from hurting yourself, how can you call someone a coward? That is the most strength I've ever seen, I mean, ever felt, you know? I can't even imagine, like It's similar, I don't want anybody to ever have to feel that way. But if anybody could ever imagine, just imagine that, you know? Just waking up every single day of your life knowing that you walk through the halls of school, nobody notices you. If you were to die, so you have a funeral, two weeks later, oh yeah, that girl committed suicide, you know? So what? Your grave will just sit there and whatever, you know? It doesn't matter. It just feels like it doesn't matter.

SW: Yeah. Did people call you cowardly? 

CL: Yeah, I heard someone recently, someone I respecte and admire say that a suicide is a cowardly way out. And I wanted to confront that person, but I didn't because I would get too emotional. But the cowards are the ones that see these people do the things they do and know

that they're oddballs or freaks or outcasts and don't reach out to them because they're scared of what they have to say or don't know what to do. Those are the cowards, the ones that don't even care. They just stand up and say what they want to say. They don't know what it feels like and judge people. Those are cowards. I remember when my friend took his life and there were several people that either said that or alluded to that. And even then I remember thinking to me, it didn't feel cowardly and it actually felt like, to be living in that pain is not cowardly at all. It's hard. And he did it for some time until he couldn't anymore. 

CL: It's everyday superhuman strength. To make it through just the day without being defeated by it. know, if you lose that battle, that does not make you a coward. I mean, I pray that no one ever commits suicide successfully, but for the people that have, that does not make them a coward.

SW: What do you think people mean by that? I wonder when they say that, do you have any ideas?

CL: That they just give up, that, you know, they're selfish. You know, like I've had a lot of people call me selfish. You know, you don't think about anybody. I think about everybody. I sit here for days at a time. I sort of got a look at my phone once. It was a Monday, and it said my last call was on a Monday and I said nobody called me today. It was the week before, you know, the phone doesn't ring. Nobody comes over. I'm not selfish. I mean people really don't give a damn, you know? I mean, it's just, it's not, I'm not trying to hurt anybody. I'm trying to end my pain, you know? It's not. I wish people would just read more about it and stop judging people and stop jumping to conclusions and saying what the first thing that comes to their mind, you know?  Or what they hear, you know, their opinion. Their opinion doesn't matter, you know? It is just killing people. I mean, just every few seconds all over the world!

SW: Yeah, you're right. 

CL: You know? And people are just sitting over there cowards and being selfish. There is so much pain they end their whole, their human life. To feel nothing, that is very sad.

SW: Very sad, profoundly sad, yeah. I mean, I know one reason, and there's a lot of reasons, and one thing that comes to mind for me is we don't learn how to talk to people that are in any kind of pain or distress or despair. I certainly didn't, I don't think most people do. It's not making it okay, it just makes me think why we don't learn these things. It would seem like a rather important thing to know, at least that. Not do some of the things that seem harmful, right?

CL:  Right I was thinking, I think all the time, like, you know, all these people that will see people that know me know the attempts and things like that. And I know they have their lives to live and things like that, but you know, a text message or a phone call would be nice. For weeks at a time, I mean, the phone works both ways, you know, I don't always have to call you. And that seems to be what I'm always doing. And I'm not one to call with my problems and tell people I'm sad and then reach out for help because I feel like a burden already. So, you know, it would be mind blowing to have someone to call and ask, you know, how are you doing? Like, you taking your medicine? Still OK? I don't understand that because it's like if it was me with terminal cancer. On the other hand, they would be in the hospital every day, bringing flowers, making sure I was okay, sending me up with hospice, making sure I my favorite foods, you know what I'm saying? Treating me like a sick person, not that you always get that kind of treatment, but they would care. This is invisible, you can't see it, so therefore it's not there. 

SW: Right, if it's invisible, it's different. Yeah, or at least people respond differently. Yeah. When was the last time that you tried to end your life?

CL: Oh, it was a couple years ago. In June I think it'd be three years. 

SW: Wow. And from what you've been sharing, though, how has your life changed? Because on the one hand, you're saying that you are not likely to do it again or try again. And then also that there's, I assume, some ongoing challenges with relationships and other things. So what's changed for you? 

CL: The only thing really that's changed that gave me any hope or will to live is finding God, accepting Him, accepting His love, His forgiveness. You know, you look for that in people everywhere and in humans. You know, humans are humans, but God is perfect. And everything that I look for in a person is in God. That's why I do sit here by myself for days and weeks because I don't, humans hurt people, you know? But God, I mean, God has given me the will to live. He’s given me joy. He's given me happiness and peace and serenity. And talking about this right now is getting, you know, it's making me a little sad, you know, and giving me some memories of things but I still desire to live. I still want to see. I believe that God has a life planned for me that's going to be great. Even if it is, it's just me in it. I do wish for a husband or a family and friends and stuff like that, but if it's just me, then that's okay too. I feel peace when I pray and when I just know God's around. Because I know the things I've done. I've you know, strung out worthless drug addict on the streets of many cities, you know, done horrible things to do, you know, for drugs and hurt people and just horrible things I've done. And God's forgiven me every time and kept me alive through all these things that should have killed me aside from suicide. You know, there has to be a reason I'm here. 

SW: What, if anything, helps you feel a little better or not as bad?

CL: I like listening to music, I write a lot, I think a lot, I think about reaching out to people and how I can help them, different things I could possibly do. One thing that people look down upon is if I'm in a situation and I fear for my life because I really think I'm also I'm a cutter, self-mutilate that is completely different than trying to commit suicide. I really feel like I'm going to hurt myself to the point to where I would die. I call 911 immediately and if I feel that they can't get to me quickly enough, I'll go to them to get help because it's suicide is not the answer, you know? And if that's if it takes, you know, 15 to 30 days in a psych ward, fixing your medicine to make you see that. Then that's what it takes. People, oh, you're back in the hospital. Yeah, back in the hospital. You know? I hate calling people from the hospital, but if it means I'm still alive, then that's what I'm going to keep doing.

SW: Yeah. So what was your experience like in the hospital? Did you find that to be helpful ultimately? 

CL: Overall yeah, it's very helpful. I wouldn't say they're all helpful. Three days, 72 hour hold is not helpful at all, but in a hospital, if you're there and you're there for a week or more and they can regulate your medication, it's very helpful and they can set you up with counseling and a doctor. It's extremely helpful. If you need medication, mean, or whatever it is you need, it's extremely helpful.

SW: Is that something that you need or you use regularly counseling or medication? Does that help? 

CL: Yeah, I do both.

SW:  Okay. And was that something that took time to figure out the right counselor, the right meds? 

CL: Yeah. I've, I like, started somewhat seeing a counselor at school when I was like about 15 and like I'm 30 now. And then I've been on medicine since then too, on and off and seen several counselors and psychiatrists and I just now a year ago met a doctor, a psychiatrist that I actually like. So it took 15 years to me, you know, they're normally like in and out, you know, just write a prescription, but it takes time, but if you're patient that'll pay off. 

Sw: What about this psychiatrist connects with you?

CL: He has, you can tell he cares. He's, I don't know if he has any life experience, but he's compassionate. He listens. He goes out of his way to help. You know, if you need inpatient, he brings you inpatient. He's in the hospital and in the office. I mean, he's wonderful. He's really an awesome doctor. 

SW:I'm glad to hear that. Yeah. What are your days like? I know now with, with COVID, might not be as it was before, but I'm curious what your days are like. I just stay to myself, listen to music and write, watch TV, I don't, I don't do much. I, um, school starts again in August. Um, I have two more semesters. I’ll have a bachelor's in psychology. 

SW: Great. How do you want to use that? 

CL: I want to honestly just I love helping people that are mentally ill, but I just desire to help people that feel suicidal. All those times, you know, people walk in and you know “God’s got a plan for your life.” And you hear it, you just roll your eyes. Like get out of here, you know? And I hated hearing that crap, but it's so true.

CL: So what are you gonna do now that you know it to be true, but you also know that probably a lot of people are like you were where they're rolling their eyes. How do you figure that? What are you gonna do in that space? How do you figure that out? 

CL: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Like people come to people that are in despair and broken and then they give them a little bit of hope and then they leave. And how are they supposed to believe in that if they keep leaving.

CL: So I want to have some kind of, I haven't really thought it through, but some kind of something where maybe you could reach people and have an email or a hotline or a phone or a direct line or where they can keep in contact with you and show that you really do care about them. You really are going to be there for them, not going to leave them stranded like every other person in the world. No matter what, it's two in the morning or two in the afternoon, you'll be there. I know people can't just drop everything in their life and give it to, just to be there for people to call, but people need people to know they care. And then nobody really does. 

SW: Do you have people in your life like that? Who cares?

CL: I would never call anybody and tell them that I felt suicidal. I think people, I have a couple of people that, I mean, I know a few people love me, but they wouldn't know what to say. I know they wouldn't know what to say. I wouldn't even put that on them. I call the crisis line. 

SW: What would you want them to say? Is there something that they could say that would be, I don't know if the word's helpful, but something like that? 

CL: Honestly, I just feel like, I feel ashamed because it's reoccurring and it's been going on for so long and people are like, I feel like people are sick of it, you know? And I'm sick of it, but...

people don't realize it's an illness. Like I can't make it stop. Like I take 19 pills a day to control different psych things. It's still there. It doesn't stop. Sometimes it's just...

I don't know. I'm sorry. I don't want to be a burden. I don't want it to happen. But, you know, I don't know what I would want, even expect anybody to say if I called and said, you know, I feel like killing myself. They will think about your kids and think about this and think about that. Well, then I think about all the wrong things I've done and how I could have saved them from what I've done. You know, so it's just I don't know.

SW: So in five years from now or a year from now or whenever it may be, if somebody calls you saying the same stuff, what would you say to them? 

CL: First of all, make sure that they were safe. Okay. And try to get to them physically. And then just spend as much time as needed. That's what I try to do to just everybody I ever come in contact with, let them know that they matter. You know, when you're in a grocery store, smile at people, I like your dress, stuff like that. I mean, there was one situation where I was about 16. I went to Rite Aid and I was buying razor blades and band-aids. And I was walking through the aisle and this woman stopped and, like that shirt on you, it makes your face the way it was. said, I don't even remember. And I was like, I went and put this stuff back and didn't get it that day just because she was kind of, you know. When people say smiles go a long way, they really do. Just, human stuff.

SW: You know, there's a lot of people that end their life every year, every month, every day. And a lot more people that try. And I'm wondering, like, do you think there's something that we could do, like I could do today, or somebody who heard this could do today that might help a tiny bit? Like, we can't change the world, right? Like, miraculously, and everybody's happy. I know that's never gonna happen, or probably not. But like that example that you just shared about that woman in the store, like that's doable. 

CL: Yeah. I do that everywhere I go. I'm kind of like this outcast. I don't really talk to people. I'm not social. But I do that everywhere I go. Especially the ones that you see that probably need it. You know, the ones that... What is it gonna hurt for you to say, oh, I like that shirt. Oh, your nails look nice. You know, what is that gonna hurt? It's not gonna hurt you to say that. And that's gonna make them smile. And that's probably the only smile they're gonna have that whole day. And they're gonna go home and think about what you said and they're still gonna smile. That goes, and it's like a ripple effect, you know? Because of that smile, maybe that day they make a better decision like I did. It's just small little things people need to do. I wish everybody in the world could do it, but I mean that's impossible. 

CW: Yeah, it seems easy, but maybe it's not. 

CL: I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying like everybody see. That would be crazy. But, you know, you can see the ones that…

SW: Sometimes. 

CL: Even if it's not,  just anybody, doesn't matter. Just be kind to people, you know? 

SW: Sure. There's no harm in that. Even if somebody's healthy and would never think of hurting themselves, there's no harm in smiling or saying something kind. 

I mean, their smile's gonna... They're gonna smile at someone else and make them smile. It's just like I said, it's like a ripple effect, you know?

SW: Yeah. 

CL: And then to open up to someone like, like now I'm like an open book. I don't care anymore. But before just to open up and say something to people was just the hardest, scariest thing ever because you feel alone and you're scared and you're helpless and you're hopeless and, so much darkness and so much pain and despair and, and you don't know where to go. You don't know how to reach out if you tell your parents or your spouse or your coworker or whoever, you're afraid of judgment and gossip and slander and whatever and you just don't know where to go with it. 

SW: So when you were quite young, 12, 13, 14 and then on, because it sounds like you've really struggled for years. Were there people in your life that you felt comfortable enough to say something to or did you hold it in? 

CL: Honestly, I never want anybody to find my body. You know, this one kept myself from trying to attempt suicide. And then as far as talking to anybody, like my mom died when I was 15, but I couldn't share anything with her because I didn't want her to feel like it was her fault. And then I felt like I couldn't open up to anybody after that because it was like, know, aunt's, uncle's, cousin's, friend's, or wherever, whoever's couch I could sleep on. You know, there was just...

They don't give a damn, you know. So it was nobody that valued the way that I cared, I mean felt. Yeah, so there was just nobody to confide in and I did confide in a pastor at a young age about when I was 14. And he's a mandated reporter. And I had a plan. And he said “I'm gonna pray for you.” Not that I'm knocking churches or pastors or anything, but that was a horrible response. 

SW: I'm gonna pray for you as a mandated reporter though. Does he also not need to report? 

CL: Exactly. He didn't tell mom he didn't tell another person he didn't say anything other than I'm gonna pray for you and I was sobbing I couldn't even speak it took me like an hour to get it out of my mouth. First person I've ever admitted into and he said I'll pray for you.

SW:  What was the, how old were you then? 

CL: 14, and he said I'll pray for you and I feel like that was just a horrible answer because you know a lot of people feel like it's a cry for help and and although I was never successful in my attempts every time I attempted I was trying to die you know never a cry for help. I'll go to the hospital and tell them I want to die before I try if I want help. When I want to die, like I'm going to try to make myself die. That's not me reaching out for help.

SW: How long after that conversation with the pastor, was it a pastor? 

CL: Yeah, a youth minister. 

SW: A youth minister. Is that when you first tried shortly after that? 

SL: No, I didn't try again. I didn't try until I was 23, but that was when it all  just started and I didn't know where to turn. And I had started going to church and everything and met him and confided in him. And that was his response. You know, I know he thought it was like a cry out for help or whatever. That it was, you do stuff for attention, you know?

SW: Yeah, you know I think about that, and I think, outside of the mandated reporting stuff just outside of that like I wonder when somebody responds to you in that way, are you ever going to go back to them when you want to have that kind of talk again? if you were feeling really crappy.

CL: Oh no, I felt so much judgment from him. 

SW: Just from the one conversation? 

CL: Yep 

SW: Wow, yeah, that makes sense. 

CL: Anything I had to say, it was like I was wasting his time. You know, it was at night time, he was trying to get home. It wasn't the time or place for it in his eyes, but. You know, and I look and I see people like that’s what I’m saying. I'm you know if it's two in the morning, no, nobody wants to get up at two in the morning and listen to you cry on the phone and you know or go to your house and be with you. You know, but I would rather you call me at two in the morning screaming and crying than get a call at 2:30 that you're dead on the floor.

SW:  Right, of course. I believe most people do talk and I think at some point everybody stops talking. I think that's a very dangerous time.

CL: Other than like my psychiatrist, I'm in search of a counselor, but I don't know, because I don't have a counselor. I haven't had a counselor in almost a year. 

SW: And you're in school to be a counselor. Or in psychology, I should say. 

CL: Yeah.

SW: So in your classes with your teachers or the other students or whomever, do you not talk sometimes about your own struggles as part of that conversation? 

CL: It's all online, like in the forums a little bit, but not in depth. 

SW: Right.I had reached out to some people and posted in some groups and then you reached out to me. So why, why did you see that and want to potentially talk with me? 

CL: Well, I saw that it was going to be a podcast. I was like, people are going to hear this. Yeah. people that are still in college are going to listen to it and maybe like, you know, even though they hear that, you know, life has been complete hell, like basically since birth for me, know, like literally I was born abandoned and premature. So, like you can see all 30, almost one year later, you will like eventually if you give it time and have patience and just search, you'll one day find a reason to live. Like, you just don't give up on it. Like, just try. And I want people to know that. And I want people to know that no matter what you've done, you know, it's okay. There's what you can't do. I mean, at least you're still alive. Thank God you're still alive. You're not a burden. You're not a coward. You're not selfish. Don't listen to these ignorant people. All the people walking around bullying people. You know, just pray for them because they're the ones that are miserable. And you can learn anything. You can go to school for anything. I've been in school for a long time. I love going to school. I love learning. You can just do and be anything you want. You really can. It's not ever too late. Just find one thing that just for a long time, the only thing that took my mind away from trying to kill myself was studying ancient Egypt. 

SW: Is that right? Wow. 

CL: I was obsessed. 

SW: With Egyptology. You're an Egyptologist.

CL: I was wanting to be, that was my dream job forever. I wanted to be an Egyptologist. Why Egypt? Why that particular civilization? I don't know. I was in fourth grade and I saw a picture of a mummy. I like, this is the coolest thing ever. And then later on in life, I was like, okay, I was obsessed with it. 

SW: What about for people who might hear this that aren't suicidal? Maybe they never have been, maybe they never will be, but they have people in their life. What would you say to them? 

CL: I would say just pay attention to those people that you know have the potential to commit suicide or that may, you might think are suicidal. Because there's almost always signs that someone's going to commit suicide or attempt suicide. And just talk to them. Let them know they matter. Let them know their feelings matter, that you care, that they can tell you anything. No matter what, you'll help them and mean it.  You know, and don't judge them if they tell you, I really want to feel like I want to kill myself. Don't freak out and act retarded and I judge them and all that. Just get them the help they need. 

CL: I appreciate this. It was awesome. 

SW: Oh, my pleasure. I appreciate you doing it. Well thanks Courtney. 

CL: You’re welcome.

SW: I hope your day is good and I hope we can talk again soon.

CL: Alright, have a good day. 

SW: You too, bye bye. Thanks so much for joining us today. If you like this podcast, I encourage you to subscribe and leave a review because that will also help other people find the podcast and hear these stories. If you or someone you know would like to join us and share your story, you can reach us at hello@suicidenoted.com. Thanks again. Talk to you soon and stay strong.