August 20, 2020 

SW = Sean Wellington, SN= Samantha in New Mexico

SN: It's just hard to see how the world has such a negative stigma related to what I would venture to call more of your brain disease type stuff. But we don't when it comes to your body diseases, but your brain is part of your body. So.

SW: Hey there, my name is Sean. This is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. And when we do, we're not very good at it. That includes me. So I'm trying to get better at it. And the only way to do that is to have these kinds of conversations. I think they're important. Now we are talking about suicide so this may not be a good fit for everyone so please take that into account before you listen.

I do hope you listen because as I've been learning over the past couple of months, man there is a lot to learn. If you have a story you'd like to share with us, I'd love to talk with you. You can email us at hello@suicidenoted.com. Today, I am talking with Samantha. Samantha lives in New Mexico and she is a suicide attempt survivor. How you doing Samantha?

SN: Okay, how are you?

SW: I'm good. A lot of people wouldn't share this and you are okay with it and I'm wondering why.

SN: So I'm comfortable with it because first of all, I've done a lot of work in that area. I think that it's really important for a lot of people to understand where you're at when you feel suicidal because I think it's something that a lot of people don't understand. That's why I'm willing to share where I'm at during those periods because there's a lot of misunderstandings about it and people just don't understand. So there's a lot of...I can't think of the right word because I've also had a stroke. So sometimes it's hard to come up with words. There's a lot of, not bias, there's another word for it, but a lot of people think that you're doing it for attention and for different stuff. And that's not the truth at all.  And maybe for some people it is, but for me, that's definitely not why. I mean, at that point in time, I'm just so low that I just would rather be dead than have all of the memories hitting me at once from when I was sexually abused as a child. So yeah , there's a lot of misconceptions about it.

SW: Yeah. Are you comfortable sharing where you were at?  So what you were talking about, where were you at?

SN: So I've had a couple, when I have them, I'm at a really low place and would just rather be dead. And then after I have the attempt, depending on what I've done, I'm like, oh crap, that's not really what I want. And I ended up usually calling an ambulance or whatever. And a little bit of history is I'm actually a nurse. So I have a lot of medical knowledge on top of it. And so I know what I've done and what it can do. So I usually end up calling for an ambulance. The things that I've been told and the things that I've witnessed is just crazy. I'll just go into this one situation. I was actually working and I was actually dealing with suicidal thoughts at this point in time. But when I was at work, there were very few people that were aware that I was dealing with this. And we happened to get a patient there with a suicide attempt. And we were in the break room. And so they had said that we had the patient that happened to be assigned to me. And one of the nurses was like, I'm just going to go tell them how to complete it next time. And you know, I was very offended, but I couldn't really say a whole lot without giving everything up on what I was dealing with. And so it kind of hurt me a lot inside, but it turned out to be a really good situation because with taking care of this particular patient.I went in there and I was talking to this patient and you know, she was like, well, no one understands. And I says, well, don't say that because I do. And so I talked to her and just gave her enough to make her understand that I did understand it changed the whole night that I took care of her. And that's the next day she told me, well, thank you. Like now I realized that there is someone else out there that understands. Need a complete difference for her to know that someone understood what she was going through instead of everybody just saying, well, you shouldn't have done that and all of the things that they say to you when you go in for an attempt. So you know, when you understand what someone's going through, it helps a lot better than when you just say the normal things that they say after you've had an attempt.

SW: So what should you do or say to this particular woman that you found or that she said was helpful?

SN: Just that I knew what she was going through because I had been there. And I was there if she wanted to talk and I just understood what she was going through. That's basically all she needed.

SW: Yeah. Do you think that you or I or somebody else needs to have attempted suicide to understand what someone else is going through? Or is it, is there any way others can find that space?

SN: You know, I think others can find the space if they're open, but I think that there's a lot of judgment when it comes to it, that it's really hard unless you've been through it for you to really understand, because there's so much judgment that the world puts on it. So I mean, I think it's possible, but you have to put all that judgment aside. And I think that that's really hard with where the world puts suicide attempts and stuff like that.

SW: I agree. Do you have any idea why people judge as harshly as they do around suicide?

SN: Well, I think it's kind of just what's been ingrained in our brains for a long time. I think it's partially what's happened years after years after years. I mean, if you look at history, like people who had mental disorders or suicide attempts or whatever were put into state hospitals and in history, they were actually kept in the state hospitals forever. I don't know, 20, 30 years ago, they started reintegrating them into communities. And so now they're out in the communities. But I think that stigma is still really out there. And I think it's that stigma that makes it a lot rougher, which is hard. And that's why I hide it or I don't tell a lot of people that I deal with it because there's that harsh stigma related to it.

SW: For sure, for sure. So when you think about the, uh, your suicide attempts and then how people responded to you, whether that's in a hospital, your friends, family, whomever it may be, what are some of them might've said have done that you found hurtful or harmful.

SN: So my family was like, well, why you shouldn't feel like this. It was totally like against the way I was feeling. They just didn't understand how it could feel like that. Like you can't feel like this.  Totally like they just didn't understand and still don't understand. But I had a really close nurse friend and  she actually became, I actually became a lot closer to her because when I had a lot of this stuff going on, she was fairly aware. And  she just told me, like, I'm here for you if you need anything, whether it's to talk or whatever, like I'm here. And that's basically what I needed. And even when I became, you know, the time or two that I became really suicidal, like she was there for me and she took me to the ER and she sat there with me until they took me up to the unit.nAnd so that's all I really needed was someone that was there to support me and not be negative in the way of the way I was feeling. But I think that was the most important thing. You know, looking back, was just that. The part that I needed and I mean, she didn't know all of this stuff as far as the traumas that I had been through as a kid and stuff like that. I mean, it's just now that I'm starting to unravel a lot of that stuff, but just her support of sitting there and being there with me was, I think, the most helpful.

SW: It always kind of astounds me because other people I've talked to have said similar things that a lot of people in their lives were judgmental and said harsh things. And I just am so astounded why it doesn't seem like more people can do what you're saying. Hey, I'm here. If you want to talk, if you need anything. I'm really just thinking aloud, but it really amazes me.

SN: Yeah, think that, you know, a lot of people don't understand it.  And there's the stigma related to it just in our culture to begin with. It's a hard subject to begin with, but you know, and for me, I didn't feel like my family was supportive at all. But then I had this friend that I worked with that I didn't know all that well, and she turned out to be like the most supportive person in my life at that period of time.

SW: Like a saint.

SN: And so you know, and so I'm thankful for her, you know, to this day because had she not been there, I don't know that I would be here today just because she did help me so much and she knew that when I wasn't doing well and stuff like that. 

SW: Is she also in the medical field?

SN: Yeah, yeah, she's a nurse that I used to work with, so.

SW: We need more nurses like that, for sure.

SN: Yeah, definitely. And you know, she had a different attitude towards it than like some other nurses that I worked with that were more to the attitude of let's just tell them how to complete it next time, you know, when that nurse said that, I just looked at him and I was like, you're an idiot. And then I had went to work. So I had that patient the first night and nobody knew what I was dealing with. So I couldn't really just be like, Hey guys, I can't do this without people finding out what was going on. And I already knew what people's thoughts were. So I had to be really careful how I dealt with that. The second night, this nurse actually came in. And so we were pretty good friends and we were walking in together. And I told her, I had a patient last night and I can't do that for a second night. And so she was like, okay. So I handed her the profile and she looked at it and she told me, you had this patient last night. said, yeah, I can't do two nights in a row. And she told me, she's like, no. And so was lucky enough that she took the patient the second night and I would have dealt with it if I had to, but I dealt with it as I had to and worked through what I needed to work through that night. But if it was possible, I just needed to do something else, you know, work with a different type of patient or whatever, because it's really hard. And I mean, I had sat down with the, with that patient and talked to her and told her, well, I've dealt with the same thing. Like I completely understand where you're at. You gotta work through it and push through it. And it's really difficult, but it's just hard to see how the world has such a negative stigma related to what I would venture to call more of your like brain disease type stuff. But we don't when it comes to your body diseases, but your brain is part of your body. So.

SW: Do you think that there are people that try to end their lives and their brains are in perfectly working order and there's no illness? It's a choice for whatever reasons.

SN:  No, I think that if they're if they tried it in their lives that their brains aren't working right I I really think that they're like because you're not gonna try to in your life if your brain is working completely Yeah, correct. Like it's not working right in one way or another And our brains are amazing things and do amazing things and so there's so many ways that it can not be working right in one way or another

SW: Yeah, of course.

SN: You know, whether that's depression or schizophrenia, one of those diseases or it's Alzheimer's or dementia, you know, there's so many different disease processes that can go on with your brain.

SW: Mm hmm. Sure. When you attempted to end your life and I know you said at least on one occasion you sort of quickly then called for help.

SN: Mm-hmm.

SW: Did you want to end your life or was it sort of wanting to stop the pain?

SN: I think that originally it was wanting to die so I didn't have to feel the pain or deal with whatever was going on at that point in time. Now, on the flip side of that, many years later, I can tell you that I was in so much pain I just couldn't cope anymore. So I think it's more of an issue of having the skills to be able to cope with whatever is going on at that point in time.

SW: Sure. And what are some of those things that you've been able to learn or figure out that have helped you? Either not do it again or just to feel okay, I guess.

SN: So I've been doing, so I've done a therapy for the last couple years called DBT. And so it was actually built for borderline personality disorder, but it's used in many other disorders now. And one of them is depression and PTSD. And so it basically just teaches a whole bunch of skills to try to keep your moods a little bit more regulated or when you start feeling down or depressed to kind of just get your focus on something a little bit different or whatever. And so you've got like different components of it. So you've got mindfulness and interpersonal communication. And then one of the groups of skills is distress tolerance. So when you start feeling to that point where you're just done, like there's different things that you can do to stop that and get back to a place where you can start coping again. And so I think that's, I felt found that to be the most helpful. And here recently I started doing ketamine for the depression and I found that by far to be the most helpful.

SW: I've heard that I've heard that to be really helpful for some people.

SN: Yeah, it's crazy. I've struggled with depression for about the last decade and I've tried every medication out there and nothing has really done a whole lot. It'll work for a little bit and then it kind of stops or whatever.  But probably within the last month to two months, I've been doing ketamine and that's been a dramatic difference. It's crazy. Like I'm back to doing stuff that I used to do 10 years ago and feeling like I did 10 years ago. So it's completely changed me and I feel like my old self again, which is just amazing. And I just feel like the weight is off my shoulders and like it has been in the last 10 years and stuff like that. it's just, I mean, it's a newer treatment that they just approved for depression, but, and you know, there's a lot of issues trying to get it, even though it's been approved as a treatment for depression, but it's been by far the most helpful.

SW: That's great. know for some people it's hard to afford it. That's unfortunately a massive roadblock. 

SN: Yeah, definitely like that's, that's definitely an issue. I mean, even though it's FDA approved for depression, like even at my doctor's office, it's an issue because they only get reimbursed for the medication yet there's a period that they have to monitor you. And so I'm having to pay out of pocket, but I'm thankful to have a doctor that's working with me on a payment plan so that I can do that and completely changed my life. And so thankfully they are working with me on paying for it because, you know, if I couldn't do that, then I wouldn't be able to do it either. For a long time, he's told me that ketamine would change my life. And I mean, it's very true that it has. I mean, I've worked here more trauma in the month and a half that a month to two months that I've done ketamine than I have in like 10 years. I mean, tremendous. I mean, they're finding that it's good for more things too.

SW: And it sounds like you've been through, from what you've shared just in 15 minutes with me, you've been through a lot. That's great. We're dealing with it. I just admire people who, I mean, we all have our challenges and I don't mean to compare, but people who have really been through a lot, I admire, I'm always amazed at how they fight.

SN: Yeah, it's a huge fight and it's a huge battle, but you know, you do what you have to do.

SW: Yeah, are there myths or something things about suicide? That you think are just way off base and grossly misunderstood

SN: So I think the biggest myth out there is that people who say that they're feeling suicidal or that attempt suicide is for attention. And I mean, I guess you have some people that are like that or do it for that. But I think that there are people who, especially within the diagnosis of depression and PTSD, who really feel like things would be better if they were not here in this world. I think that's a huge myth that everybody tries to kill themselves so that they'll get attention when that's not the case whatsoever. Like the furthest thing I want is attention during that time frame.

SW: Hmm. And what would you say to people who are in a position, in a position to support people who might be feeling this way or perhaps they've attempted and they're not sure what to do or what to say?

SN: Just be there and be there to listen. I mean, I think that's been the biggest support for me is just to have someone there to listen.

SW: Yeah, I sometimes feel like people know that and they don't do it. I wonder if part of the reason is I don't think people actually know what that is, what it really is. Like they know what the word means. They can define it.

SN: You know, I really think just being there to listen is really hard in our culture because we all like to talk and share our opinions. So just listening to someone or what they're going through is really hard for us to do.

SW: I agree. And then of course, without knowing details of those people out there who are in pain or despair. So is there anything you would say to them?

SN: I would say that, you know, the one thing that has helped me is when my therapist explained to me that, and this therapist has been awesome. Like she's been the one person that I've been able to sit there and talk about when I'm suicidal, which usually I'm not able to do, but you know, I'm able to sit there and tell her that I'm feeling suicidal and you know, she explained that, you know, those feelings come and go. And so the biggest thing that has helped me is

when she explained to me that the suicidal thoughts will come and go. And so that's when we started working on, and it's the biggest thing that's helped me is that the thoughts come and go. So anytime like the thoughts come and they get really bad, I don't allow myself to do anything unless the thoughts are there continuously for three days. And that has been the biggest help because they never stay along for three days continuously.

SW: Never?

SN: Never.  I've been working with her for four or four and a half years. Two, three, yeah, three to four years. I don't think it's happened in the last three years.

SW: So you still ideate, but now you're dealing with it differently.

SN: Yes.

SW: What's the pandemic been like for you and being sort of on lockdown, so to speak?

SN: Well, it's hard and I have a therapist that doesn't exactly follow it. They still, at times been able to see her and we'll go out for a walk at the park or wherever. And then I've had doctor's appointments, so I haven't exactly been inside the whole time. And I have a caregiver, so I do still have the social interaction that a lot of people don't. It hasn't been horrible. But I know that I was at home for about a week and a half  because I had been exposed to the virus at a doctor's appointment. Those two weeks were really hard, but I did, I worked on a lot of  mindfulness  and that kind of got me through that time knowing that, you know, it was going to get better soon. And, you know, I wasn't going to be locked in my house for, or my apartment forever. I think this is a really difficult time for people with depression or, you know, any sort of a mental illness type thing. And I think that it's also a good time to find, you know, meaning and find other things that help work you through things. And it's a difficult time, but just remembering that things will get better and depending on what state you're in. I I think there's three states that still have it pretty bad right now, but for the most part in the other states it's gotten a lot better. So you just have to take it day by day at this point, you know, cause no one knows how it's going to be. 

SW: Sure. So then you did mindfulness, and that's some of the DBT stuff, It's in mindfulness, interpersonal communication. And what was the other one? Distress?

SN: Distress tolerance and then there's another one I can't think of right offhand. There's another module in there. As you can tell, those are the three that have helped me the most. Distress tolerance has different skills that help you when you start getting down to kind of, and those are the skills that you use to get you back to where you want to be.

SW: I should look into this. For real.

SN:  it's a really good program. It took me a while to get because I had a stroke a couple years ago, so my memory is not great. But  it's really helped me dramatically. The lady that started it actually had borderline personality disorder. And so people with borderline personality disorder tend to have a lot of suicidal ideations and suicide attempts and stuff like that. that's basically... 

part of it and they tend to have a lot of behavioral type issues and so basically what it was built on  but it's been found to help with other stuff like depression and PTSD and stuff like that.

SW: And it's been during the pandemic that you started ketamine as well, right? 

SN: Yeah.

SW: Wow. Yeah. It's an interesting time for you.

SN: Yeah. Yeah, it has been I mean, I've been wanting to do ketamine for quite a while and my doctor was actually just waiting for them to approve it. So once they got approved and he started doing it. So I just kind of waited for them to get used to doing it before I really wanted to try it. Cause I didn't want to be, I wanted them to know what they were doing before they did it with me. So I kind of, held back a little bit to make sure they had all of their protocols ready before I did it, but it's been a life changer for me.

SW: Are you able to do your job as a nurse these days?

SN: So I haven't worked since the stroke. That's more that's not as much of a depression issue as it is related to the stroke and having cognitive issues as part of the stroke that I had. Yeah, so unfortunately I don't work because of that, but that's not that that's all related to the stroke.

SW: Right. But like I said earlier, I mean, it's pretty amazing what you've been able to accomplish because you've got these setbacks, like legit.

SN: Yeah, yeah, it's been, it's been a lot. I mean, no one expects to have a stroke in their 30s. It's been a lot. I mean, I wasn't able to live on my own after a stroke. And I'm now back to, well, I've been living on my own for a few years now. It's a lot and I just take one day at a time and that's all I can do.

SW: Do you think that there is any chance you'll try again, to try to end your life again?

SN: I try not to think about that and I do everything I can not to. So yeah, I hope that doesn't come, but.

SW: I agree, I hope that too, for sure. And like I've said to some of the other people who have been gracious enough like you to give me their time and being so, not just their time, sharing so openly. I always say to them, and I'm saying it you, I'm glad that those attempts were unsuccessful.

SN: Yeah, you when you're, you're just in a different space and you're not thinking right, I think is a lot of it. Glad that it was unsuccessful. You know, for whatever reason, I'm still here and I've still got a reason to be here.  And I would love to get back into nursing if I can, but you know, that depends on my brain. And as of right now, like everybody's saying no, but I...hope one day I can get back into nursing, because that was my ultimate joy.

SW: I hope you can get back into it not only for yourself, I've got to believe that all you've gone through, all of that will make you just a better nurse.

SN: Yeah.

SW: Like I'd want you as my nurse. Because I feel like you'd be cool with me. You'd talk to me, you'd listen. Those are like massively underappreciated qualities.

SN: Right. Right.

SW: Nurses can be like really, really busy and I know they don't have time to sit down for 30 minutes and, but sometimes just a word or two or sometimes not a word and just listening is like a real, is a real difference maker.

SN: And that's something that I kind of pushed a lot. when, before my stroke, when I was nursing, that's one thing that I kind of pushed a lot. And I did a lot of charge nursing right before the stroke. And that's one thing that I used to tell. I did a lot of precepting and stuff like that, which was where we train. I trained a lot of new nurses. And that's one thing I pushed a lot was you got to listen to your patients or you're never going to know what's wrong. And so that's something that was vitally important to me. And I think sometimes that, I don't know, from the experiences of me being in the hospital, it just doesn't happen all that much anymore, which is kind of sad. And I think I'm sure it's hard and you have a lot to do, but I think it's something that's vitally important too.

SW: 100 % agree. Yeah. Is there anything else that you want to share about yourself, about your recovery, your attempts, whatever it may be?

SN: I think you just learn from what you go through and go on to the next step and you recover as much as you can and learn as you go.

SW: That's what we do. Well, thank you, thank you, thank you so much, Samantha, for taking the time and keeping it so real.

SN: Yeah sure, thank you so much.

SW: Alright, have a good day, stay strong.

SN: You too, bye.

SW: Thanks so much for listening. If you've got a story you'd like to share, please reach out. Hello@suicidenoted.com. We drop new episodes every Monday and Thursday morning and that's US Eastern standard time. But again, if you subscribe, you won't have to worry about those days and times. Until we connect again, please stay strong and do the very best you can. I will talk to you soon.