August 24, 2020 

 SW = Sean Wellington, VI = Vandy in Illinois

VI: Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. You went to Northwestern. You had a career. You belong in California. You can pull yourself up out of this. I think my dad thought that. My mom thought that. Basically, my parents thought that. And I was like, help!

SW: Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we don't talk much about it. And when we do, most of us are not very good at it and that includes me. One of my goals with this podcast is to not only have conversations with suicide attempt survivors, but better conversations. While we are talking about suicide, this may not be a good fit for everyone, so please take that into account before you listen. But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn. At the time of this recording, we've been around for less than a month, and every day we have new listeners from new places. Places like the United Arab Emirates, and Poland, and Singapore, and Portugal. I'm really glad that these stories are getting out there because they really matter. If you'd like to support us and help us reach more people, you can subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. It helps get the message out there and it helps people find the podcast on places like Spotify and Apple. And if you have a story you'd like to share or you know someone who does, please reach out. Our email is hello@suicidenoted.com. Today I am talking with Vandy. Vandy lives in Illinois and she is a suicide attempt survivor.

VI: Hey Sean!

SW: Hi Vandy, how are you?

VI: Good. How are you?

SW: I'm doing okay, how are you? 

VI: I'm good.

SW: Most people who try to end their lives are not talking about it with other people. They're certainly not talking about it publicly, which this is, and you are okay talking about it publicly. And I am wondering, Vandy, why that is.

VI: Well, I have a detachment from it. It happened so long ago and I feel removed from it completely. I really do. My life is 1000 % different and I have compassion for that person because she was so, it was so black. I have incredible compassion for that person. And I also feel that by talking about it, perhaps I can help someone else who is in that darkness, give them some kind of hope and let them know that they can possibly get out of it. It was so unbelievably dark that I think people need to know, even if you're absolutely hopeless, there's hope.

SW: So when you were in your dark place, which we will talk a little bit about, but did you have anybody in your life that was that voice for you that gave you hope?

VI: There were myriad people that were trying to help me and I don't think anyone knew what to do because it was so bad. I didn't talk about the real suicide attempt with anyone, the real serious one. I didn't talk to anyone about it because I knew I was going to do it and I was actually happy, which is interesting to listen to the accounts of Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain because I read that they were happy right before they did it. And that was my experience. I was just so glad that it was going to be over. I was in such a bad state. The whole illness was so loud. It had so taken over. I mean, I remember being in that room at the treatment center and it engulfed me. It literally engulfed me. I remember thinking it's going to take me out of this window, the blackness and it attacked my soul. And I just remember it's going to be over. I'm going to kill myself and I'm so happy this will be over. And all the people that had sort of tried to help me will just be relieved. And um, what did you say, the people that tried to help me or?

SW: Yeah, I was wondering...

VI: Well, no one knew what to do with me. No one knew…

SW: What did they do? What did they try to do that presumably, to help?

VI: Trying to think, my mom and dad. My mom had no idea what to do. She got me on public assistance and my dad would meet me at a cafe and he would give me money. I remember he brought me some books like the classics when I was in a psych ward. They had no idea what to do. Then I had friends that were trying to work on getting me into this one treatment center in the East coast that I'd been in at one time. And then I had this shitty messed up boyfriend that was sort of trying to get me to go to AA meetings and he had no idea what to do. And then I had doctors, quacks at various psych wards that would give me pills because they had no idea what to do. So they would try me on various medicines that either would fuck me up more or just numb me out and make it worse. I remember some of the drugs had the exact opposite effect of what they were supposed to do. Like I remember New Year's Eve, I was given Thorazine and instead of numbing me out, it made me psychotic. I was wild and out of my mind and it's supposed to numb you out. And I remember I was given Mellaril and that's also supposed to numb you out. And I was just wild. So I was trying various drugs and then I was on a drug called Ascendin and that was supposed to make you, quiet you down and it made me sick. So all these people were trying pills. I went to a Christian science reading room and a man was trying to heal me with Christian science. man. I went with my mom to church and a priest laid hands on me. What? You know, I was trying everything.

SW: What does that mean? Laid hands on me?

VI: Well, this priest did like one of those things. They touch you. 

SW: Oh, I misunderstood. Right, did it?

VI: Yeah, like God. Supposed to heal you. Well, it actually worked for like five minutes.  And then it went back to the horribleness. But you know, I was, it was bad. I was crying. My mom brought me. I would go and talk to people like, priests. You know, now it's comical to me, which is the great thing about distance, right? But I was going around making the rounds of various things that could heal. And in a way it's horrifying. Nothing could touch the darkness, including the drugs.

SW: So then why were you trying?

VI: I had a glimmer of hope that I would get better. I really did. I always thought in the back of my mind, there's something that's going to work. I don't know what it is, but there's something that's going to work. And that's, I think what made me hold on. But then in that final treatment center, just, it was so bad. I just wanted it to be over. I thought, I cannot take this. It's gotten me now. I surrendered to it.

SW: Yeah. When did the real darkness begin? And then when did you first try?

VI: Well, the episode of First Darkness happened at Skidmore College in 1975. I went into a deep, dark place with anxiety, like super. And of course, this was the 70s. So you weren't encouraged to go to the health center and talk to a counselor or get medication. The only thing I did was call my family, they said stay at school, and then I got a bottle, bottles of sherry and just doused myself with the sherry every night to try to deal with the monster. And I just dealt with it by drinking.

SW: Which helps short term, right?

VI: It does really help, short term.

SW: Right, mean that's obvious or people presumably wouldn't do it. There's a reason why they do it.

VI: Itreally helped short term. And I drank as much as I could all the time. And at night I would just have to douse it. And it did pass. I don't know how. And then I didn't have another really bad, dark one until 1982.

SW: So you're in your mid-20s.

VI: Yeah, I had, I started to go dark and up and dark and up, but it's interesting. The up once lasted for like a year and a half, two years. And then the crash was so bad. The biggest crash where it, it started the real descent into hell. Like the, was up for, God, a year and half, almost two years. And then I was on a skiing trip in 1987 in Mammoth in California. I lived in California and I had a boyfriend. We were talking about getting married and I don't know what happened. I went into the descent of hell and that started the really bad one where the darkness and anxiety, I couldn't get out of it. And that morphed into starting to go to the psych wards and the emergency rooms in California, like being unable to work, showing up at the emergency room in Torrance, you know, going to the psych ward. It was just unbelievable. And then I flew back to Chicago. And it's interesting, I would have little periods where I'd stabilize and then the darkness would just hit.

SW: Would you be able to like get back on your feet enough to have an apartment, have a job, stuff that people associate with being so thankful?

VI: Well, I lived with my mom in Chicago and I was functional. I had a job. I was functional and happy. And then it hit.

SW: Do you know it's hitting when it's hitting or is it like, especially with the high stuff, I would just think this feels good. I'm high. I'm doing stuff. I'm active. Like you don't know. Oh shit. This is going to bottom out. know.

VI: I was even helping people. And I can't remember if there was fear of impending doom. But I remember it was really good. And then I just hit. And they put me on, like I said, this drug called Ascendin. And it didn't help at all. Like it didn't help with the darkness at all. And I kept taking it. And I took more of it when stuff would hit. So I was taking a lot.

SW: Yeah.

VI: And it didn't work. In fact, I think it made it worse. And you'd go to a place and they'd say, keep taking your medication. And so I was taking it and it wasn't doing anything. It was making it worse. And that whole period, they kept saying to keep taking the medication and fuck, it was making it worse! And then I became completely non-functional. I was shacking up with this guy and it was bad, Sean. If I didn't fuck him, he'd throw all my stuff out on the front lawn of his place. And I was completely non-functional. I walked around crying all over Evanston and it was unbelievable. I had this couple that I met at a meeting, let me sleep on their floor in exchange for me giving them food stamps. You know, I'd gone to Northwestern University, I'd had a big career. I'd grown up in Lake forest, an affluent suburb, and it was just unbelievable. And so this is the weird thing, I applied for a scholarship at this treatment center, which is hysterically funny to me. I somehow filled out the paperwork. I went up to the interview and I was pretty much out of my gourd. I took the train up there and they accepted me. And I went up to this treatment center in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And I was like a patient that cried all the time. And then they medicated me on a different medicine. They gave me Prozac and this old antipsychotic called Trilafon. And it worked. It was better. But then I had to fucking play around with it. went, I don't know why I did this. I don't know why I did this. I walked out of the treatment center one day and I walked to a bar and I got drunk and I was hitchhiking back and the head counselor picked me up and I got into all kinds of trouble. I remember sitting in this bar with these old men and I spent the day in the bar. It was fun. I was drinking with these old men and I really liked it. And then I hitchhiked back. This counselor picked me up, they took me back to the treatment center and they said, you have to do every single thing we say or you have to leave. Yeah. And I couldn't do that. I still did my antics. So they kicked me out. And that's when I surrendered. That fucked up boyfriend picked me up. He took me back to his shithole apartment. I got up the next morning. I looked around at the shithole apartment and I walked 15 miles to my mother's apartment in bare feet and asked her if she'd take me back. And I called the treatment center and said, what do I do? I don't want to go back into this blackness. And the psychiatrist begged me to take the medicine. He said, you've got to take it. Please take it. And you know, I was like ambivalent about taking it. I can't believe I was ambivalent about taking it from what I'd been through. And I took it and I was good. But then, that was in 1990. But then my daughter was born. It hit again.

SW: Oh yeah?

VI: in 1999.

SW: So now we're going on like 20 plus years of it hitting and then leaving and hitting and leaving in some way.

VI: In 99, it hit again. I had to go into the psych ward. couldn't stop crying. I was depressed. My daughter… was diagnosed with cerebral palsy and she wasn't hitting her milestones. I couldn't believe it. I went into the psych ward, they put me on Zyprexa, which is a really heavy duty antipsychotic. And I got out. I was good until 2004. And that was another descent into total hell. I stopped sleeping and I just went down. I mean, it was as bad as it was at the treatment center. And I was clean and sober and I picked up a drink. I was, it was so bad. And my husband… It's really weird to me now. I would stay up all night. I would stay up all night and my husband would come down in the morning and I'd be up all night and he’d say, hi, how are you doing? And I'd be like, I was like a zombie. I don't think he understood the depth of what was going on. And I had this quack, this doctor who was a quack and she would have me call, it was boundaryless. She would have me call her at 10 30 at night. She'd have me pager and we would discuss if I was sleepy and then I just stopped sleeping and I would, she let me pager at like three in the morning to discuss sleep. It was really weird. She was weird. And so I drank, ended up in the emergency room, totally suicidal, out of my mind, put me in the psych ward. This weird quack sashayed into the conference room and said I failed you. I can't be your doctor anymore and sashayed out. The people on the psych ward were pissed I drank. We can't place you. I called another doctor. He said, when you're in a crisis, it isn't a good time to change doctors. Everyone was dumping me. And I just started plying myself with pills. I was just laying on the pills and they weren't helping. I was on tons of pills.

SW: And this is in the mid 2000s?

VI: This is in 2004.

SW: And at that point, had you already tried to end your life? 

VI: Not yet.

SW: Okay, so all of this is sort of an aspect leading up to this act.

VI: Yeah. Like everyone dumped me. My husband, this is awful, my husband said to me,

How much would you need to go away?

SW: How much what? 

VI: Money

SW: What'd you say?

VI: I don't think I said anything. You know, everyone had dumped me. So what I did is just started asking for more and more pills. And then something interesting happened. You know, I wanted to drink so bad that I devised this plan that if they released me, I would go to Howard street, which is in Chicago. It's a strip of bars that border Evanston in Chicago. There's like 18 bars and they're sleazy. I used to drink in there in college. I decided if they would release me, I'd walk to Howard street and just drink myself to death. That's what I wanted to do. 

SW: Who, if who released you, where were you?

VI:  The psych ward. If they would let me go, I would just walked to Howard street and drink myself to death. And that's what I wanted to do. I was in a place where I wanted alcohol so bad. I just wanted to drink. I wanted alcohol. And this interesting thing happened. This guy came to see me, this guy who had 30 years of sobriety. And I said to him, Doug, I just want to leave here and drink myself to death. And that's what I want to do. I said, I want to drink. I don't care. And he said, you can't just ask to have this removed, you got to get on your hands and knees and have the ask to have this removed. Cause at that point I just knew I was going to die. I knew I was dead and I didn't care. That was the first dead thing. I just resigned that I was, I wanted to die and drinking was going to do it. And he said, get on your hands and knees and beg for that to remove. And that was the first kind of miracle thing. Cause I did. And it was removed via the horrible death wish of alcohol was removed. And so then I went to treatment in Arizona. And again, I was a total complete out of my mind darkness. You know, it's almost if other people said this to you, that it's like devil possession.

SW: A few people have said something like that.

VI: To me, it's like devil possession, it’sw: like a demon.

SW: You can't really do much with that, right? Like, what are you gonna…

VI: No, it wants to kill you, Sean. And it's going to use any method it can.

SW:  For you it was alcohol.

VI: It was alcohol or like I earlier on in the eighties, I had had bouts of cutting myself and pills.

SW: And it sounds like you've been in over those years, several times, a psych unit or treatment center, like in and out several  times, right?

VI: Yeah, I think total all of them, I don't know, maybe it's more than 12… more. But you know, in between there were periods of real success.

SW: Which is amazing that you were able to keep bouncing back.

VI: I mean incredible success.

SW: Right. That's really interesting to me.

VI: It was interesting that before medicine, I was able to have incredible success. I don't know how I did that. I guess that's a cycle. Yeah. Amazing to me, I did well in college after that. I was a straight A student and I had a ton of fun.

SW: Wow. Right. Like you wouldn't think you'd be able to balance things in that way. Study, show up on time, manage all the things that go into being an A student. Yeah, how that happen?

VI: And then I went to film school, I had a blast. You know what I think happens is that the velocity of the illness really increases. So by the end I was a bag person, a bag lady basically.

SW: Were you actually?

VI: Well, when I was in Evanston, shacking up with that guy, he wouldn't let me be in his apartment during the day, so all I did was wander around Evanston.

SW: Did people recognize you from your earlier days or earlier years there?

VI: I remember meeting for coffee with someone who knew me. And finally he had to stop meeting me for coffee because he told me it was too scary.

SW: Were you a threat to anyone but yourself?

VI: No. So I was in that treatment center in Arizona. And again, it was like demon possession. All I remember, all I did was, I talked about this in my one woman show, all I did was cry and the other patients stayed away from me. And then again, I went to see their psychiatrist and he put me on Wellbutrin. I came out of it. And then I jumped into the activities of the treatment center. Like I loved it. I became like a model patient. And then I came back to Chicago and it hit again. And I was non-functional. And my husband was like, what is going on? You just went to this great place and I missed it. I wanted to go back to the treatment center. Because it was like summer camp. It was fun!

SW: Yeah, yeah. Right.

VI: And so I remember going to this couple's, this family's house for dinner and I couldn't function. So I went to an aftercare program. I went to see their psychiatrist and she put me on a ton of medicine and I got a sponsor in AA and I came out of it. I came out of it and I've come out of it since today. There have been small blips. But I had this amazing doctor, he’s retired now, which was the saddest thing. But for 13 years, I had this incredible doctor. He ended up becoming a friend. He went to all my shows with his partner, which I'm sure was a boundary in medicine. You're not supposed to.

SW: Maybe. Well your attempt, did you actually attempt or were you ideating for all those years and never actually?

VI: Well, in the eighties, I told you, like, I guess they were cries for help. I took pills, ended up in hospital and had my stomach pumped. I would take a knife and cut myself. And I remember the police broke down my door in California. I cut myself and the police picked me up at the beach. This is in the eighties, you know, it was like demon possession. 

SW: One of the things I'm noticing is that it's like, yeah, it's spanning a good number, a lot of years and out up and down here.

VI: And I think that's bipolar disorder.

SW: Yeah.

VI: And if I didn't have the medicine, I'd be in a psych ward or want or you know, it would be really bad, really bad. And I'm really lucky that medicine works for me because there's some people it doesn't. And I'm lucky I've had for a long time, I had an amazing doctor when I could call in the middle of the night. He told me if you can't sleep, call me. So I've called him in the middle of the night.

SW: That's great.

VI: Yeah, he has a cell phone. I mean, he's retired now, but he had a cell phone and I'd use it.

SW: Yeah. He's all in, man.

VI: He was all in, Sean. I'd do something, I'd get scared, I'd call him. During the Kavanaugh hearings, I got manic. My friends and I were on fire about that stupid jerk. We were texting and I was writing a piece about my own sexual abuse. And I got so high that I stopped sleeping. And, you know, I had to be put on a heavy dose of crap to come down. Didn't have the depression, but I was… really wild. And my husband was like, okay. And that's the only drawback, I think, with the bipolar. If you do have the high to come down, you have to get on so much medicine and it affects your memory.

SW: I'm sure it affects every a lot of things including your memory. Is this the same husband who asked you how much it was for you to leave So you are, sounds like you're quite the forgiver.

VI: Yes, yes, but I'll tell you the thing is, he's wonderful. He stuck with me through everything.

SW: Yeah, he sounds like a mensch, as we say. Yeah,  I guess that question he asked you was just a reflection of his own…

VI: Well, he was so mad that I slipped. He was so mad. Yeah, it was not good. And then all those people dumping me. That was horrible. That quack.

SW: So this is a hard question because, you know, I ask a question and it's so depending on like, for example, what would you say to somebody who's trying to help their spouse or their kid or somebody out who's dealing with this stuff? But when I asked that, I also realized there's so many like, it depends on factors like, that I don't think there's one answer.

VI: I would say if they have good insurance, if they can afford it, they should go to someplace like the Meadows in Arizona, which is the best treatment center for trauma, depression, and addiction in the country.

SW: This is for people who are suffering. Yeah.

VI: They should go there. There's several really good ones, but the Meadows is the best.

SW: And for the 99 point, whatever percent who can't get there, of course, the way most people can get there.

VI:  I'd say yes get in a 12-step program.

SW: If they're an addict. If they're an addict.

VI: If you just have depression and you're suicidal, you absolutely have to get some type of therapist. And there are free programs or sliding scale. I mean, Trump has fucked with a lot of that, but there still are places. And hook up with NAMI, call NAMI if you can't get anything else and say, you know, they'll really help. They have chapters all over. You have to reach out. And if you're so incapacitated, you can't reach out, which is a lot of the times, that's the scary part. See, I always had a thought that… but if you can't reach out, that's really a problem.  And hopefully you have people ooking in on you.

SW: But a lot of people don't and those are the people we lose. We lose them because there's just, you need people or you need resources at some point, it's insufficient. You're gonna fall through the cracks.

VI: Right, and in the pandemic especially Sean, I heard that suicide hotlines are off the walls. I even feel like if people could call me, you know, I don't know how I'd set that up.

SW: Right, I know. I know. It's a hard thing to say like, well, maybe there's nothing else we can say or do for you. Like nobody ever wants to say that or hear that on the receiving end. But sometimes it's like, what do you do?

VI: You know, I look back on that psychiatric history and that, you know, there was no medical medicine solution for a really long time. Like there just wasn't like, let's say it had been the forties or even the fifties. I would probably be chained up in a basement psych ward somewhere, maybe even a Lobotomy candidate, Sean. Or the old kind of ECT, it's frightening.

SW: Frightening.

VI: That's what it would have been for me.

SW: Yeah, there's no way you're on a podcast talking about it.

VI: No, no way I'm even lucid.

SW: Right. Would you want to be lucid in a place like that anyway?

VI: Right. So, I mean, like, I'm in a 12-step program, so I do try to help people. It is daunting, I will say, Sean, to think about that whole period of time.

SW: I imagine and you're still open enough to do it from time to time, at least because you're doing it right now, which I appreciate. People will hear these things. And if you're in a dark place, hearing this stuff, and this might go against what many people think, and I don't give a shit what they think because I think they're wrong, when you're in pain and you hear someone else sharing their story of pain and hopefully recovery, it tends to be a positive thing. Oh I'm not alone. Holy shit. She felt like she had demons, too. Like, that's a positive for people who are in that kind of pain typically.

VI:  Right.

SW: What's the biggest myth when you think about, specifically to you, about what you went through and what people thought and where there was this huge disconnect, like the biggest space of misunderstanding or myth?

VI: Maybe pull yourself up by your bootstraps. You went to Northwestern. You had a career. You belong in California. You can pull yourself up out of this.

SW: Is that all 100, is that just pure bullshit?

VI: Yeah, I think my dad thought that, my mom thought that. Basically, my parents thought that. They would say things like, you went to Northwestern, you had a career, you were always great when you were younger. And I was like, help and they didn't know how to help me. My parents had helped me like in the eighties, they'd sent me to some, you know, upper echelon places. And then they were done, Sean, by the time it was really bad. Like I remember one treatment center administrator calling my dad and saying, if you don't put her here, she will be in a coffin. And my dad just said I'm not doing it, not doing it. Been there, done it, no. And my parents, my dad had money, but he just was done. He was done. When I got clean and sober, we got close, but he had, he was done with me with the helping. He'd meet me at a coffee shop. He'd give me money. I'd show up at his condo. He'd give me money. He was done playing, paying for the places. They were done. And you know, my mom filled out the paperwork for public assistance, but they were done. Now I did have my social security, what is it called? My Medicare, Social Security card. So I could go when I got that to better hospitals. But before I got that, I was going to the public hospitals and a couple of them were super scary.

SW: The thing you'd share though is that pull your, cause I'm sure a lot of people hear this. I know this to be true. This idea of pull yourself up by your bootstraps or whatever iteration like that is maybe if there was never a place and it never worked ever, like it would have no weight. It must have some value from time to time, but I'll go on the record as saying, it's total bullshit. If you're trying to support somebody in paina and that's your remarks, man. You are doing people a disservice.

VI: Well, think my parents were really sad, you know, because I had been like the golden child. Popular, accomplished. My dad was so happy that I'd been out in California doing well. They were so happy I'd done well at Northwestern. They were so happy I'd been popular and kind of golden in high school. And then I was just an absolute cipher of what I'd been.

SW: Yeah

VI: I'm sure they were sad and confused. And they didn't, they didn't, they were done, but they didn't know what to do. And I remember my mom saying to me at the end, I've completely turned you over. And she was a Christian. I knew what that meant. Like she'd let go of me entirely. She thought I was going to die. So she just let go.

SW: Man. It's cool that you're still here, man. It sounds weird to say cool, but you know what mean? Like it seems like from what you shared, the likelihood that August, 2020 that you'd be here was a long shot. Really.

VI: Yes. And Sean, I forgot about one other thing. At that treatment center in Milwaukee, after the blow dryer in the bucket didn't work, this is kind of a comical one. I went out in the woods and put a bag over my head and taped it. But that again was kind of comical. I just wrangled around with a bag and it didn't work.

SW: I don't remember anything about a blow dryer and a bucket other than what you just said.

VI: That was my peace, that I tried to really die in the treatment center.

SW: That was a flat out, I'm going to put a blow dryer in a bucket and I'm going get electrocuted.

VI: That was what I tried to do. I thought it was going to work because I remember seeing Bill Murray with that toaster in Groundhog Day and then I'd heard from my parents say never put anything electric in the bathtub growing up. So I thought, this is foolproof. So I put a blow dryer in a bucket and nothing really happened.

SW: Where was the bucket?

VI: I'd stolen it, taken it from a maintenance closet.

SW: You put your hand in the bucket?  What was the connection between the… I hate getting super graphic, but I don't understand how that…

VI: I just fired up the blow dryer, plunged it into the bucket of water. I thought it was going to electrocute me. 

SW: What happened?

VI:  Little jolts of electricity went through my hand  and I got really angry.

SW: Didn't do the trick. 

VI: And then I went out into the woods. I took this bag. This is funny to me because I can't believe I thought it would work, but I'd heard about people doing this. I put it over my head and I had some tape. I don't know where I got the tape. Again, it's a treatment center. I must have taken it from the nurse's station. And I wrapped the tape around my neck with the bag.

SW: Yeah.

VI: I remember the woods vividly. And then I just kind of wrangled with it. Maybe I realized it couldn't work or something, but I was trying to actively kill myself.

SW: Right. Don't take this the wrong way, but you're really bad at trying to kill yourself it sounds like. I don't want to get,  there have been people who legitimately felt so awful. They've shared this with me - I even fained that that.  So I really don't mean to be cute and light about it. But those two things you just shared, I'm like, man, you really fortunately suck at that.

VI: Right, you know, I had had my, in the prior to that, you know, I'd taken so many pills, you know, I remember just being on the gurney at Evanston Hospital, getting my stomach pumped. What they do is pump you full of charcoal and then they pump your stomach. You know, I was known at Evanston Hospital because I'd been there so many times. And I talk about that in my piece. I remember vividly this platinum blonde doctor with all this makeup on. She looked striking. And she has big pink lipstick hovering over the gurney as I'm being pumped going, what's different this time, man? And know no, I'm on a fucking gurney getting my stomach pumped. And this chick, God, this Barbie. Okay, that's the whole thing. It's wrong.

SW: That could go down a whole different way, right? And here's the thing, I know you from the world of storytelling, personal narrative storytelling. And my question is, like, so you're into storytelling, you still have the same husband, you have a daughter, right?

VI: Yes.

SW: Sounds like you have some friends.

VI: Yes.

SW: On paper, those things are all mostly like, good, good, good, good, good, good. And you're north of 60. We're open about that, right?

VI: Yes. Is north up?

SW: Yeah, it's like my attempt at sounding cool. never it never works.

VI: Okay, unfortunately north of 60.

SW: All of those things and medicated.

VI: Yeah.

SW: wiser perhaps or at least…

VI: Yes. Are you getting to the thing, what's hard in my life?

SW: I'm getting to the thing, to a couple of things. What's hard and is there any chance you're going to try again? Those two things. And then we'll end with what's helping you the most. Cause that would be some sort of message that might also resonate.

VI: I don't think I'd ever try again. No. But, um, what's the hardest, you know, I've talked about this in my show, the fixer, you know, I have a daughter who's, I prefer to call it differently-abled than special needs. She is 21. She has cerebral palsy and this is the not good part. She is bipolar 1 as well and had rages. Intense ones her whole life, violent, medications that didn't work. Now she's on medications that do work. But I cannot believe what I've gone through with her. Incredibly hard. And I mean, unbelievably, when I tell people, you know, people that have quote unquote, typical kids, they just stare at me. Luckily, I'm in a recovery program and I have friends who either have kids who are zombies or they have kids that used to be zombies and are now okay. And those friends have helped me in an inordinate amount. I mean, I've clung to them. And I'm lucky I'm in a recovery program. And it's unusual, Sean. This is unusual. Up until last week, I didn't have a therapist. Most people have therapists. I used the recovery program and now it's been suggested to me that I really work in therapy because I'll just say this on the podcast. My daughter was violent and I had some violence toward her and I don't want to do that. That's where any kind of darkness has come out in these 16 years is my own reaction to my daughter's unbelievable dysregulation. So I guess if I say anything about malaise  or dysregulation or darkness on my own part, that's the only, I mean, I've had little blips of bipolar. They’ve quickly gone away, but it's been the intensity with my daughter.

SW: Yeah, God or the universe or whatever it may be did not. You were never meant to have an easy life. Screw the easy, it was never going to be part of what you have to deal with, I don't think.

VI: I guess not, Sean.

SW: It is not why you’re here.

VI: I guess not.

SW: Because if that was the blueprint, someone fucked up.

VI: Yes, but I will say that I've had a lot of laughter, intense amount with my friends and intense amounts of laughter and good times in between, you know, my daughter. I would say my friends and I have kept laughing because I have friends who have zombie kids and I have friends who had zombie kids and now the kids are okay. And we've laughed and laughed and laughed. You have to.

SW: Right, I would imagine that laughter is like better than gold. It's like just...

VI:  You have to! Or I'd end up in the psych ward again.

SW: Right, yeah. Thanks for doing this and sharing this stuff. I know that like when people start talking about their many, many years of struggle, it could take seven hours. So it's tricky to try to squeeze it into… But we got some good stuff out there, which is cool. I appreciate it.

VI: I just hope this would help someone. That is my greatest hope.

SW: We don't know. I imagine it will. People are gonna hear it. The goal is for more and more people, more and more places. It takes a little time to build. I'm working on that end of it. I'm kind of new to it, but it'll get out there. It'll get out there. The people, I don't wanna be like wide-eyed about it and think, well, the people that need to hear it will hear it. But I hope it'd be cool if someone heard it and be like, and just from what you shared, someone… reframed what they're going through or felt a little less alone like that's a gift man.

VI: Yes, and in COVID, you know, I know there more people.

SW: Yeah, I know.

VI: And I'm lucky, I have a really good support system. I have a lot of friends. Also making art out of it, that's what I do all the time.

SW: Yeah, that's the grit though. That's the sweat that is usually worth it, but is hard at doing it.

VI: Yeah. The grit. I use this as gold.

SW: Yeah, that's a good term, grit gold. What is your plan today? I always like to know what people do the day we talk.

VI: Today I'm taking the dog to the dog park. Then I'm going to get my eyebrows done. Then I'm, I don't know. 

SW: I love the eyebrows.

VI: Yeah, I'm getting eyebrows, lip wax, eyebrow tint tomorrow. I'm going out and getting beautified in pandemic because it's way overdue. Pandemic has squashed the beautifying. So I'm getting it done heavy. Hair done yesterday, and then, Sean, Thursday is the ultrasound on my waddle.

SW: Awesome. We won't even recognize you next week.

VI: Yes, it takes three months to take place.

SW: Okay. Okay. We'll give it some time.

VI: TMI, but…

SW: Alright, sounds like a good day. Cool. Enjoy it. Enjoy all that self care and your dog and all that other stuff. And I thank you again for sharing. All right. Have a great day. Again, If you like the podcast, please rate, review, and subscribe. It helps get the message out there. If you've got a story you'd like to share with us, or maybe you know somebody who might like to share with us, please reach out. Hello@SuicideNoted.com We release new episodes every Monday and Thursday morning. That's Eastern Standard Time in the United States. Until we connect again, stay strong, or do the best you can. I'll talk to you soon.