October 26, 2020 

SW = Sean Wellington, HF = Helena in Florida

HF: So many people are afraid to ask or afraid to talk about it in fear of pushing them to maybe try again. For me, it helps to talk about it. And since it's a part of my daily life, I don't want to avoid the topic forever. I am comfortable with what happened. So why not, you know, talk about it?

SW: Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. And when we do talk about it, most of us, including me, are not very good at it. So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and I hope better conversations with attempt survivors. Now we are talking about suicide, so this may not be a good fit for everyone. Please take that into account before you listen. I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn. Whether you've been listening regularly or this is your first time, I want to thank you. Thank you for hearing these stories of survival. These stories matter. If you like the podcast, if you're learning from the podcast, please keep doing what you're doing. Listen, let people know about it. If you're on a podcast platform like Apple and you have the option to rate or review it, that would help too. That allows people to find this podcast. I really appreciate it. And if you have a question or a comment, please reach out. Hello@SuicideNoted.com  You can also follow us on social media at Suicide Noted. Today I am talking with Helena. Helena lives in Florida and she is a suicide attempt survivor. Hey, how are you?

HF: I’m good, how are you?

SW:  So is it Helena? 

HF: Ha-lee-na. 

SW: All right. I'm gonna write that down, I want to make sure I get that right. Are you in, I don't want to be weird, but I see a closet behind you. It looks like little shirts.

HF: No, this is my mom's bathroom. So I've barricaded myself in my mom's bathroom, just a little bit more privacy. I'm in a two bedroom town home with my mom and my brother and I have the office of this town home. So there's no window, no closet, and it's right next to the living room. So this has at least two doors of, you know, a little bit more privacy. I am in the process of house hunting. So living with family has been a challenge. 

SW: Right. Yeah. So you're in the bathroom. Bathrooms are quiet, safe spaces, right? 

HF: Yeah.

SW: Cool. Well, thanks for doing this. You know what, Helena? It's not easy to get people or find people who are open to talking about this stuff. 

HF: It's not, I'm sure.

SW: And there's a lot of people who have tried to end their lives. So I'm wondering, actually, this is a good segue. So you're like ‘Oh I'm going to reach out to this dude and see what's up.’ And I wonder why.

HF: So actually I deleted all of my social media about two and a half years ago. I had a Facebook and an Instagram and I kind of just found myself always on social media and always comparing myself to others. So I finally decided to delete it, but I still kind of felt drawn to looking on social media. It's been four years since my attempt and I wanted to talk about it and find other people that have had similar experiences and suicide attempts. So I went on, Googled it and went on to Reddit and found some posts and found your comment and then just decided to reach out because I think this is a very important topic and it's very important to talk about.

SW: Yeah. So question for you. Well, actually they're all for you because you're the only person I'm talking to. Why do you think people are so hesitant to talk about this?

HF: I think it has a lot to do with shame and the fact that it is a topic that most people are not comfortable speaking about. Even now, I am two rooms away from my family because I didn't want my family to hear this conversation because I'm still kind of ashamed. You know, I feel shame about the experience, still. So I think that's a very large part of it as well as being embarrassed about the situation as well.

SW:  Yeah, Two Rooms Away is a great title for a book.

HF:  That is a great title Two Rooms Away. Oh my goodness. I'm writing that down. I'm gonna be writing some, I like to reflect and process and journal.

SW: I hate to gloat because I'm not good at most things, but one thing I think I'm pretty good at is titles. 

HF: I like that title.

SW: I don’t think that’s a job. I don't think anyone cares. And by the way Helena you got to be careful. Sometimes it's a really...what you're looking at, it might be a chapter title. It could be a subtitle. Two rooms. Exactly. Big choices to make as you, so you journal?

HF: Yes. Regularly, regularly, it's like I kind of keep a notebook always on me, whether it's for work, balancing my checkbook in my journal, my thoughts and feelings, kind of using skills I've learned in therapy. It's my go-to.

SW: How long does it take you to roll through a journal like a physical book? 

HF: I'd say a couple months and I have started keeping a collection of them because I would journal on and off. So I have about five journals from the past five years.

SW: Wow, okay. Yeah. You also write really small.

HF: Yeah, I do.

SW: Yeah, two rooms away. All right, share with me what you want about the suicide. If you want, maybe we could start with that day. 

HF: Okay, so I had the plan in my head for about a week and I struggled with depression and anxiety since high school. And then when I got to college at my university, I looked for treatment and I didn't really find anything that helped. For years, I tried different medications and over those four years, I continued refilling these prescriptions even after going to a different prescription. And I kind of hoarded pills for four years.

SW: Are you talking about things that like psychotropic meds or other things that are maybe a little more, I don't know, dangerous.

HF: benzodiazepines and antidepressants, antipsychotics.

SW: You're hoarding these meds. 

HF: Yes. 

SW: All right. So I do want to know why, but I want you to continue on the path. However that you were sharing the story.

HF: We could actually go back if you want to, because I had these two half attempts and then this was like the main attempt.

SW: Do you think it's important? I'm curious. All right.

HF: I think it's important. Yeah. Okay, so I started having suicidal thoughts in high school. I did not seek treatment until I got into university, onto my campus at university. I lived on campus and I went to therapy and I was just having a really tough time transitioning to living on campus, living away from animals. Animals are a big part of my life. I used to raise and show cows in

a club called FFA. And so going from being with livestock every day to nothing in a little dorm on campus, it was really hard. And I had suicidal thoughts and they just kept getting worse and worse. And I was so afraid of being hospitalized because I've heard stories. And I had a plan to hang myself in my dorm room on campus my freshman year. I was just thinking about it a lot. My suicidal thoughts were constant. They were always on my mind. So that was really hard. And basically I did not go through with both of those attempts. However, I did get up onto, it was a closet shelf in my dorm. I had a friend text me, a best friend text me, how are you? That morning when I was planning on doing it. And I tried and I didn't go through with it and I got down and I texted her and I just said, you know, this is how I'm feeling. I don't know what to do because I don't want to be hospitalized. That's just more problems. You know, I'm going to get fired. I'm going to have to pay hospital bills. It just seems like so many more problems than what it should be. And that's very difficult.

SW: You're right and it sucks but you're right. Usually you're right about that.

HF: Yeah, she told me to tell someone and I told my therapist that day and that's when I was Baker Acted the first time. 

SW: You were what?

HF: Baker acted, so that's a Florida term. A Baker Act is when you're involuntarily hospitalized because you're at harm for yourself. Does that make sense?

SW: Yeah, It pisses me off, but it makes sense.

HF: Yeah it pissed me off!

SW: I want to be careful. I don't know who's listening. Most of the time, I think the professional mental health community is well intentioned. Most right, always an exception. Some are good at it. Some aren't. What bothers me, and then I do want to get back to sort of like your story, not these like larger social, political stuff. 

HF: It's still important.

SW: I think oftentimes, people are making those decisions out of issues related to, am I going to lose my license? Am I going to get sued? And I get it and it sucks, but it's not necessarily the right thing for that person who's in pain.

HF:  Mm-hmm. 

SW: We don't really have a lot of places for Helena to go in that situation. We don't have them. So let's be safe and put her somewhere where it's almost impossible for her to kill herself. That's really what our goal is. No?

HF:  Yep 

SW: So yeah it pisses me off.

HF: It was a very rough experience.

SW: You had these two almost attempts, right? And you're a teenager. 

HF: I was 18 at the time, Yeah.

SW: 18 years old. How long were you struggling? And if you share this with me already, I apologize. Were you sort of really struggling before that? Those almost attempts?

HF: Since high school, so like four years before that. But I was really struggling months, a couple months before that, and it just kept getting worse.

SW: And you were saying one of the things that you could specifically point to is the different way of living. That you had been living one way with animals and then you were put in the dorm room and...

HF: I wanted to live on campus. I wanted to have that experience. I wish there was one thing that I could pinpoint to have that reason of why I wanted to kill myself. But I look back and there's no one reason.

SW: Yes. And we want to know ‘why’d they do that? What happened? Why?’ And  I'm like, no, we don't always know exactly why. So how was that involuntary hospital stay?

HF: It was very difficult. I was in these, this inpatient facility. It was a facility for a lot of homeless and these other, because I didn't have health insurance at the time. So that was played into a big part of where I was institutionalized, I guess. And I stayed in that hospital for three days.

Because they have, they have a 72 hour hold. Then I kind of honestly lied to get out because I just did not want to be there. It was not helping. It was making things worse. I was missing school, I was missing work.

SW: You were racking up some debt.

HF:  I was racking up some debt. That experience kind of led to the overdose because I did not want to go back. Like that bad. And that's horrible to look back at.

SW: That is so telling.

HF: Yeah. 

SW: That your attempt was in part because you didn't want to go back to a place that is what's supposed to be. Why are they even there in the first place? Maybe my idea of why they're there isn't actually why they're there. Maybe it's to just throw a bunch of people somewhere where they're a little bit safer to themselves and others. I'd like to believe some institutions have other purposes. You tell me, what do you think?

HF: I think it definitely depends. I went to a partial hospitalization program a couple years later that was very helpful. And I really think it depends on the facility.

SW: So how long before you got out of the hospital? How long were you in the hospital before you said you kind of lied to get out? I totally get that.

HF: I was in the hospital for three days. Not the hospital, the inpatient facility.

SW: Yeah. With the homeless, with other people with very different challenges and conditions, I'm sure. Yes. I've had two week-long stays and the last one was a couple of years ago and I'm in my room with a recovering, recently recovering heroin addict who was delusional. And I was like, yeah, this is safe. Yeah. What the fuck's going on here? After the hospital stay, what happens?

HF: After the hospital stay, I go back to campus. I'm still living on campus. I'm very, I'm someone who dedicates everything to school. So I got back on track and I continued therapy and I was on different medication when I was given medication while I was in the inpatient facility and continued that medication afterwards. However, it didn't make a difference. I was still having suicidal thoughts. I still felt depressed. I was sleeping better because the new medications knocked me out at night, but overall I wasn't, I felt the same. Of course, I didn't want to tell any of my health practitioners this information because I was so afraid of going back to that facility. So that was 2014. So for three years after that, I tried different medications. I think I've tried about eight or nine different combinations, different, um, class of classes of medications and tried different therapies, mainly cognitive behavioral therapy or CBT. CBT with different therapists. However, I didn't really benefit from that kind of therapy. So I struggled, but I just kept going. It wasn't as bad as it was right before I went to that inpatient facility, but I was still suicidal. I was still depressed. I had good days, overall I was just dreading every morning getting up. My journals have just pages of just, I don't want to live anymore. I wish that...

SW: Verbatim? I don’t want to live anymore?

HF: Yeah, verbatim.

SW: How do you live? How do you stay alive, when for so long you're thinking and feeling that way. It's a weird question to ask, but I'm gonna ask it. How do you not kill yourself?

HF: I look back and I still don't know how I did it for so long. I think I was just so afraid of failing. You know?  It was because my journal is also like, I wish there was an easy way out. I wish there was an easy pill.

SW: So if you knew for sure, if I could guarantee you, Helena, it's not going to even hurt. Not only is it going to definitely work, I'll even add something else here. It's going to be painless. You would have been like: done, check me in, I want that. 

HF: Yes

SW: How long of a period before that attempt, would you have, or maybe after, would you have said, yeah I want that.

HF: I'd say a couple months before that first attempt.

SW: Thats a fucking brutal two months. 

HF: It was.

SW: Yeah. Nowhere to go. Fucking hell. Well, I admire you for sticking it out. Yeah.

HF: Thank you. And I did well in school. I was very involved. I worked a lot. So that kept me going, staying busy. And there were points in those three years where I felt so defeated, but there wouldn't be enough energy in me to attempt or do something. You know, I had plans or I thought of plans, but there was never a point in time where I was like, okay, let me just go do it right now. It was always just constantly thinking about it and having that energy wasted on thinking and crying and wishing and wanting. And it was hard.

SW: But you're doing okay at school though. Yeah, fascinating to me. So you're able somehow to do that. I'm assuming you had compromised or perhaps even no relationships, friendships, whatever. Is that something you were able to cultivate or no energy?

HF: No energy. All I really did was work and school. I mean, I had a couple friends from high school, but they didn't go to the same college as me. They were still back home, which was only an hour away, but I did not have a car. So I was kind of stuck. I would walk around campus and there were squirrels and ducks on my campus. So I would feed them just to have that little bit of animal interaction. You know, that's what I liked. 

SW: Yeah. Yeah. 

HF: And then I also, this was a big part, I worked for housing and I saw the stigma around ‘emotional support animal’ applications from administration. Because they were always like, these people don't need this. They're just wanting an animal on campus. You know, these are lies. And that was really hard because I knew how much I needed an animal with me, but I did not want to even look into that option because I worked with housing, because I worked with the administration that processes those applications in fear of being judged or stigmatized. That was rough too.

SW: You're allowed to say the school if you want to. I think it's USF. You know why I know that?

HF: Because I'm wearing a USF shirt?

SW: You're wearing a USF shirt. See, I was trained for a long time to do this kind of work and I pick up on these things like that big massive Bull on your shirt. I went to the U.F. back in the day.

Are you saying you're also from, you said around the area, central Florida, West Florida.

HF:  It's called Wesley Chapel. A little city, north, like 20 minutes north of Tampa. And that's where I raised and showed cows in Wesley Chapel, Florida. And I still work at USF. I don't work in housing anymore, but I still work at the university because I do absolutely love it.

SW: Yeah? Nice. Cool. Cool. Cool. So you're still on campus. You're struggling. Is it your Freshman year?

HF: We could fast forward because this is about the same for two years, two more years. And I'm still living on campus. I'm not working for housing anymore. I'm in a different room. I'm in an apartment and I have my own room. And I was very isolated at the time. I didn't go out much. I love live music and I purchased concert tickets, but then they would come up and I would just not have the energy to go. And then I would cry because I don't have the energy to go and I'm missing it, but I don't want to go because I'm feeling depressed. And these were kind of signs that I wasn't doing very well when I was canceling plans and not doing things that I absolutely loved. My pills were always kind of the pills that I kept and hoarded were always kind of like, I don't want to say a safety net, but they were always in the back of my mind. I'm like, they're there. All I have to do is just swallow them. But again, I was just so afraid of waking up. So afraid of the pain. And so I researched a lot and just kind of thought about it for like a few weeks. And then I decided a couple days before that I would do it. And I got all of my medications and crushed them up with pill cutters and mixed them with alcohol and took them. 

SW: When was this?

HF: This was in November of 2016. I was on Campus.

SW: 20 years old?

HF: Yep, 20 years old.

SW: You took all the pills?

HF: I took all of them, yes.

SW: Because it sounds like, from what you're saying because you were hoarding. There was a lot

HF: There was a lot.

SW: And there were different pills. 

HF: Yeah. There were different pills, different.

SW: What was the difference between that day and the day before?

HF: I planned it like on a weekend, so it would be, you know, not during the work week because I don't know. I don't know what was different. I just knew something was different. I was ready. I thought about it for so long and I was just like, you know what? I'm going to do it because I don't want to be here anymore.

SW: Yeah, and you did it.

HF: And I did it. And I locked my door. So I was in my own room and I fell unconscious. Well, I kind of remember like 10 minutes before I fell unconscious as I was still taking the pills. And I remember feeling nauseous and grabbing a trash bag. But then after that, I don't remember anything. But what happened was I was sitting on the floor and I was throwing up and fell unconscious. And I was sitting there in the same position in my own vomit for three days because I didn't tell anyone, my door was locked. I didn't want to live. I tried to do everything possible to make sure that I quote unquote succeeded.

SW: You didn't want to live. You weren't fucking around. That's really what I hear, right? It's like you did not want to live. You take the pills. You lock the door. You make it really hard for people to find you. But three days later, something, what happens?

HF: My, of course, you know, I had my mom calling me and I wasn't answering. And then I think on the second day she called the Dean of Students and asked for a wellness check. And the Dean of Students at the time called my cell phone as a wellness check. And of course I didn't answer. And then the next day, finally, I think the housing staff arrived to my room along with one of my best friends at the time. So I did have a Tumblr, a social media, a Tumblr page at the time, but it was only for me and a couple of friends. And I just went on it kind of just to journal, but no one had access to this, this page. But I did schedule a post for like two days afterwards, just saying like, I'm sorry, just, just something for someone to see afterwards. I don't know. And she saw that post and of course she kind of knew. And she decided to come to campus and it was a Wednesday night. And this was the same time the university staff was coming to my room. And I'm still unconscious in my room and they come into my apartment. I had a roommate at the time. And she's like ‘no, she's not here.’ You know, when she locks her door, that means she's not here. They came in and they asked my roommate, you know, if she knows where I am. And then they unlock the door and my roommate goes, see, she's not here. When the door opens and I'm on the ground, passed out in my own vomit.

SW: When your mom called, didn't reach you, and then people reached out to her, do you think she had any idea?

HF: I think my mom had an idea because when I was first almost tried and when I went to an inpatient facility, I had to call her and tell her that I wanted to kill myself and now I'm in the hospital. So of course that was something that I worried about was my mom. And so I think she did have an idea. And then I don't know when they called her, but she got to the hospital kind of the same time that I was transported there. And I don't remember anything about the first two days of the hospital because I was in the ICU. I had a blood clot in my left leg and in my left arm. And that turned into a pulmonary embolism, which is the blood clot traveled to my lung. Luckily, you know, I got all the surgery that I needed and the treatment in the emergency room. And I spent two full weeks at the hospital including Thanksgiving at the hospital.

SW: Hmm. That's irony there. 

HF: Yeah right?

SW: That hospital stay sounds more like let's stabilize her short term crisis. 

HF: Yep, short term.

SW:  But it is thought, and I'm sure you'll share with me, I want to hear it. Okay you're still alive, but your problems and your feelings and all the other stuff don't magically go away. 

HF: Nope and a lot, I think a lot of people think that when you wake up from a suicide attempt, you're very happy. You're so thankful to be alive. I was devastated. I did not want to be there. I was on another Baker Act. So they were planning for me to go to another inpatient facility after I was stabilized in the emergency room. And I talked to a psychiatrist and I again, lied.

SW: Mm-hmm.

HF: And they let me, they rescinded the Baker Act and let me go home. And this time I moved off campus, but I also want to say I was kind of kicked off campus because of my own safety.

SW: Really? What do you mean? When came to you and said something?

HF: Since I had a relationship with the housing staff, I knew that no student could break their contract without either they're drafted for the military or something very, very serious, or else they had to pay a lot of money. But when I went to the housing staff, they're like, don't worry about it. You need the care that you need at home. We could just let you go for free. And at the time it was  the best option and I kind of knew that I had to move back home because of just what kind of mental state I was in as well as physical because I ended up causing a lot of nerve damage to my left hand because I was in such a, I was in a stagnant position for so long. It compressed nerves as well as like the bile eating away at my skin caused like some nerve damage. So I could not move my left hand or my left fingers at all afterwards.

SW: Can you today?

HF: A little bit. It's not the best. The hand is very weak, but over time I'm slowly gaining more motor and sensory dexterity. To be honest, it's a constant reminder.

SW: There's nothing like having your left hand immobile to remind you.

HF: Kind of going off topic, but I now work with breast cancer survivors who have chemotherapy induced peripheral neuropathy, which is when the chemotherapy toxins kind of kill your nerves and your feet and your hands. And in our clinical trial, we are looking at interventions for this kind of neuropathy and our participants will come in and talk about it. And I want to relate to them so bad. I want to say, understand, I feel it. I have the same thing in my hand, but I don't think I can without them asking, what is it from? What happened? Just out of genuine curiosity and I don't know what to do.

SW: Why can't you share with them what happened?

HF: I think I'm afraid of judgment. I think I'm also afraid of just what people will think. 

SW: Do you think you could get fired?

HF: You never know. Maybe. I don't know. And then maybe, you know, it'll affect our data. Maybe I tell a participant and then they take these psychological assessments afterwards and they're really sad from hearing my story and then, you see?

SW: I suppose yeah, no, you've got to get rid of Helena because we don't want really honest people at this organization who are really true and gone through some stuff and no we don't want that.

HF: In previous interviews after my attempt, I would bring it up in a job interview. I would say, I was in a car accident recently and I have some nerve damage. Will my limited dexterity inhibit my abilities to perform these job responsibilities? I was always scared of it, like being a huge thing at a job, but most people say they don't notice it because of how well I've adapted and I kind of overcompensate with my right hand, which has caused my left hand to be even more weak. But it is something that I'm constantly aware of.

SW: Yeah, what started to look, you're alive. I'm talking to someone who's alive. So something's either changed for the better or at least not gotten worse. You probably wouldn't be here. So I'm wondering what those things have been that at least move the needle in a slightly better direction.

HF: When I moved back home, it was during the holidays. This is December. There was no school at the time. I was not working. I quit my jobs because I just needed time to recover. I was very depressed for a month after just waking up wishing, baffled by how am I here? Why am I here? And not being able to move my arm. It was very swollen and heavy and no one really knew what kind of recovery that I would face with the hand. So a couple of weeks later, I kind of pushed myself to apply for Medicaid and I got Medicaid. And then I kind of pushed myself to apply for a partial hospitalization program that was only three miles from my house.

SW: Wow, cool.

HF: So I decided like, you know, I want to change. I want to, you know, if I'm going to be here, I might as well continue trying different treatments. I continued seeing my psychiatrist and got on different medications. And so I went through the partial hospitalization program and that was kind of like my reset. It was every day, every weekday, like nine to five. And it really helped me kind of get back to a mindset where I could believe that things could be different. Because for a long, long time I was like, you know, this is never going to change. I'm always going to feel like this. The partial hospitalization program stabilized me. And then I went to a therapy called dbt or dialectical behavioral therapy. And that was the most beneficial therapy I've ever been through because of just how well it helped my symptoms of impulsivity and just wanting to just not be here. And I don't, know, every therapy, every medication is different, but I do really think the medication that I'm on now has completely helped me turn my life around because I don't have suicidal thoughts anymore. I don't want to kill myself anymore, which is unbelievable to hear me say, to be honest.

SW: Yeah, you found two meds that helped. 

HF: Yes. And that therapy during that time was very helpful.

SW: The DBT 

HF: DBT. 

SW: Yeah, yeah. And you still do that or was it sort of a set period of time and now it's kind of done.

HF: I did it for a year and it was very helpful. And then I graduated from the program. And I was actually thinking about recently going back and going through that whole therapy again, because you could gain different things from going into it with different perspectives. However, the individual at this facility said that I don't have severe enough symptoms to go back into that therapy, which I understand because that was, you know, a therapy for when I was at such a low point. So I got like a DBT workbook that I'll be doing on my own because I still have struggle. I still, you know, I deal with the eating disorder and just a lot of stress. But yes, DBT and the medication. And then I went back to school and things are still going well. 

SW: Did you finish? 

HF: I did, I graduated in 2018. And I work full time in a study coordinator position. 

SW: Go Bulls. 

HF: Go bul...I'm not a school spirit person, not exactly my thing.

SW: But still, and you finished, did you say you got a degree in psychology?

HF: Yes, I got my bachelor's in psychology.

SW: Awesome. And now you're working with some clinical trials? 

HF: Yes. Yep. 

SW: I feel like half the jobs in the world now are clinical. I'm also at the University of North Carolina. Like that's the area I live in. And Duke is here and there's just so much of that. So like every other person I meet, they're like, I'm in clinical trials and I am like, everybody's doing this.

HF: There are so many research opportunities at universities that have these like research opportunities. I'm very grateful for the undergraduate experiences that I got as a research assistant or volunteer for those kinds of experiences, because that helped me get to the position that I'm at now.

SW: Are you living with your folks or are you solo or what's that like now?

HF: I'm living with my mom and my brother. It was very hard to move back home, but it was what helped me in the end kind of get back on track. I am in the process of house hunting. I am ready. 

SW: House hunting, like buying?

HF: Yes. So I'm very excited about that. Trying to save as much as I can, which, you know, living with family helps as much as they get on my nerves, it helps me save money.

SW: Okay, yeah. Wait, you're gonna buy a house alone?

HF: Yeah. Or I may have a roommate. I may have the friend that I texted the very first time, will be my roommate. And right now also the family thing is we have five animals. So living with three cats and two dogs is...

SW: What kind of dogs are they?

HF: A Pomeranian and a French bulldog. 

SW: Little guys.

HF: Yeah, little guys. I like big dogs because of my experiences with cows. I love big dogs. I would love a pet cow.

SW: Who doesn't really want a pet cow when they really get real with themselves? Is the French bulldog the one that makes those weird sounds? You're like, what are you doing? Why do you keep making that sound? 

HF: Mmm Hmm. 

SW: Some sort of evolutionary thing going on there that I'm not sure worked.

HF: Yeah, their little snouts.

SW: So you're still here man. 

HF: I'm still here.

SW: Also kicking it. You are house hunting, working and willing to share and talk about your stuff. That's a win.

HF: But you know, it's something that I'm very comfortable sharing because it's hard to say I caused my own disability, but in a sense, I caused my own disability, my own limitations with my nerve damage. Crap, I forgot where I was going with this.

SW: It's OK. That's the story of my life. We're on the same page now. We got to just go all over the place. And it's editing that’s the nightmare, but I'll get it done. Let me ask you a few questions that can be answered in a long form, but I want to see if we could do it in a shorter form. How many people know about your attempt?

HF: I would say about 10, 10 people, maybe more, because I am comfortable sharing it with dating and, you know, wondering when they're going to find out about my scars or my, you know, my nerve damage. I don't have any nails on my left hand because I bit them off because I couldn't feel anything because I had that nerve damage. You know, I'm always, I always fear that it's so noticeable that my deformed hand is distracting. So I'll bring it up, you know, on first dates because that's just what I do because it's a part of me. It's just, it's something I'm comfortable talking about and you know, more people are going to know now since I'm on this podcast.

SW: Yeah, some people. I don't know. You know what? It's kind of hard to get people's attention. 

HF: Yeah. 

SW: There's literally probably millions of podcasts. Some people are listening and truly it's just cool if a couple of people hear it. Sixty-two countries, by the way, Helena. No joke. 

HF: Wow. 

SW: I’m not playing. But I don't know who's listening and I don't know if they are outside of the people who do reach out. Survivors, contemplators, supporters, but that's a good segue to my next question. Somebody out there is like Helena was in college and she's or he is contemplating hard. Now I realize you don't know them, so it's a tricky question. Do you have any words for them?

HF: I'd say to keep going and to keep trying. I think what discouraged me the most was not finding something that helped me earlier. But again, it's a trial and error process with medications and treatments. And I would also say to reach out for help. I was so scared of reaching out because of my first inpatient facility experience. And that also kind of prevented me from reaching out for help, kept me from reaching out for help. And so I think that's very important, even though it's something that's very hard to do, but to just reach out to one person, you know, and let them know what's going on.

SW: Yeah. And what about the others who maybe mean well? I think a lot of people do mean well and they're just not getting it. And so like, is there anything you would say to them so that they have a better sense of how they can maybe be supportive?

HF: I think watching what you say, my mom, when we've gotten on each other's nerves, will just be like, Lena, go take your meds. And that's like the worst thing that you could tell someone, you know, that is taking medications because they're taking medications to try to feel better, not to really, you know, I don't know what my mom thought at the time, but at the time it was a very hurtful comment, you know, my brother and I aren't very close. So we went to the same school. We lived on campus together, but in different buildings. And I only saw him twice on campus during those three years. And he came to the hospital after my overdose and told me that he just wants me to get better and he wants to see me happy. And that was crazy to hear because we didn't talk at all. So I think also hearing, just saying that you care about them, that you care about that person and want to be there for them is very important. 

SW: And then do that.

HF: And then do that. Surprise, yes. 

SW: That you actually give a shit and then show up. Yeah. I always want to get a sense of how people in your life responded when they found out.

HF: I've had so many nurses tell me, Oh God kept you here for a purpose. And I'm not a religious person. So at the time, it did not help me. And hearing it so many times, like, you're here for a reason. Oh you survived. Like, it just, at the time, it was like, well, yeah, I know I survived. I don't want to be here. It was something that I did not want to hear at the time. They were, you know, trying to mean well.

SW: Mm-hmm presumably. 

HF: Right presumably.

SW: They're already nurses. So let's hope that they already have that sort of like hey, I want to help people out.

HF: And I think just being cognizant of someone's religious preferences. You never know, you know. When I was first institutionalized, the van driver picked me up from the university to drive me to the inpatient facility. I was crying. I didn't know what was going on. And he asked me if I believed in God. And I said no. And he's like, well, that's the problem. No, no, that's not what you say to someone who wants to kill themselves.

SW: You know who else would probably never say those words?

HF: What? Who? 

SW: God. I'm not a believer. I'm not anti anything. You want to believe that's cool. Pretty sure your God would never say that. So why are you doing it? Just my thoughts. Helena, Lena. I just picked up on the fact that some people call you Lena.

HF: My mom, just my mom. 

SW: Okay, now it's awkward.

HF: No, you're fine. That's okay.

SW: Well that didn't help. Probably meant well. But this is the rub for me. It's really interesting. Look for people who are just assholes I’m like, you're being like that. I don't care. Like, I don't want to talk to you. I mean, someone should talk to you. It's just not me. I'm always so fascinated in truth about the people who probably do mean well, man, you have no idea how to do it. You mean well, so you say that thing or this thing, but you're not helping. Be cognizant that your beliefs and your faith and may not blend well with others who have different beliefs.

HF: I think being open and just being aware of that, of what you're saying and how it comes across to others that have different beliefs is important. There's a difference between saying ‘ oh,that's the problem is you don't believe in God.’ Rather than, someone is looking out for you. Because that could be completely different. And it came across differently as what that driver said to me.

SW: What are the biggest myths associated with it? When you hear this stuff, you're like, nah, just shaking your head like, nah, nope.

HF: A lot of the other individuals that were on your podcast that I've listened to kind of also talk similarly about people avoiding this topic, avoiding the topic of suicide and talking about different attempts and different experiences that others have had. For me, I'm comfortable talking about it and I like questions and I like being able to answer them openly. But so many people are afraid to ask or afraid to talk about it in fear of pushing them to maybe try again. But for me, it helps to talk about it. Since it's a part of my daily life, I don't want to avoid the topic forever. Since it's always going to be a part of my life, I kind of have to, I've accepted it. I am comfortable with what happened. So why not talk about it?

SW: Talk about it. I get why people say those things are hesitant because we were just saying earlier, a lot of people say stupid shit. And that's, you know, who wants to talk to somebody that says stupid shit. But I think my beliefs or my ideas around this stuff are a little bit more open. I think they are. But I certainly don't want to talk to people who say stupid shit. Like judgemental or invalidating. And you do find that a lot, I imagine, right? I mean, it's not, you don't have to look very hard to find a lot of people who say things that you're like, nah, I don't really think I want to talk too much about this stuff.

HF: Yeah, I've had someone call me selfish for what I did. I've also had a therapist kind of try. I know they don't mean to guilt-trip. But whenever someone is like, well, what about your mom? What about, know, who you're leaving?  At that point in time I didn't care about anyone else but myself. That was the hardest thing to get over too. It feels like a guilt trip. And it made me very angry.

SW: Hmm, you're just struggling to stay alive. Don't you think?  It would make sense to me. When you're struggling so hard to stay alive, it is all about you. Something's kicking in like ‘don't die.’ I think I don't know. It just makes sense to me that I probably don't have a massive amount of energy for a lot of other people. 

HF: You know, at the time, all of my energy was consumed by just thinking about suicide and wanting to commit suicide. So the energy that I had left over was just for work and school, and then I would go to bed. You know, it was hard to talk to other people. And that was another thing. I didn't have much support in my life. I isolated and I avoided different things. And that put me into a different kind of perspective as well as being alone. Thinking I was alone in this experience and in these thoughts. And it's really nice to know that you're not alone.

SW: Game changer. So what are the chances given you're looking for a house, you got a job, dating some from what you shared? What's the likelihood that one day in the future you might try again?

HF: I don't think there's a big chance that I'll try again. It hasn't been on my mind. Like I will have bad days where I'm like, I just wish this wasn't what I was facing right now, but it's never a thought to, okay, what if I just leave? What if I’m not here anymore? So don't think there's a, I don't think I will try again. I mean, I'm not in the mindset to try again. I don't have that motivation or that desire. I'm very thankful for my medications, but one day maybe I'd need to get off those medications for some reason and I have those thoughts again. It's something that I'm really afraid of doing in the future if I do need to get off these medications. But I may face those thoughts again and at that time I kind of will identify what is helping me in that moment and how to reach out for help. I mean, I have resources now that I didn't have in the past. Support and

friends and family and things like that. You never know. The future is uncertain, uncertainty.

SW: No guarantees. Other than your animals and journaling. Is there anything else that brings you joy?

HF: Going to theme parks, which I haven't been to since the pandemic started. 

SW: Like Disney World?

HF: Universal, I love Universal.

SW: I'm so lost in all that. Isn’t that the same?

HF: No, so Disney has a couple of theme parks, a couple of parks, and then there's Universal Orlando and Islands of Adventure. So Islands of Adventure and Universal Studios are the two parks in Universal. And so they have more roller coasters, more big kid rides. Like there's too many little kids. I don't like little kids. I don't want to have kids at Disney.

SW: There's millions of kids everywhere. 

HF: Yeah. 

SW: Eating crappy food and screaming and wearing ears. It’s a lot to take in.

HF: So yeah, I really miss roller coasters and that was kind of my escape or my stress reliever is my family and I would always take trips to Universal. And those were kind of like the breaks I had from life, from those suicidal thoughts. Because when I was at the theme park, I'm not thinking about wanting to kill myself is I'm thinking about what ride I'm going to next.

SW: Is there anything else? I know there's always more stuff, you know, other stuff I may not have asked you about that you wanted to share, things that are on your mind.

HF: So this was after my overdose. This was a year ago, almost a year ago, two years after my overdose. So I wrote in it, Helena, you deserved better. You deserved to be treated with kindness and compassion. Instead, I invalidated your feelings and experiences. We never processed or reflected, which I now value immensely. I resisted your urge to reach out for assistance and alternatively let the pressure continue to build. I valued my perceived capabilities more than my internal conflicts, and for that I am sorry. Rather than allowing myself to truly feel, I shielded you from negative emotions. I wish I knew how to care for you then, but I ignored you for so long. You are worth so much more than how I treated you. I'm sincerely sorry for the negative impact I caused to your physical and mental health. You are allowed to feel negative emotions. What matters is how you react to these feelings. You never learned how to cope

through these feelings and it only got worse over time. My negative perceptions kept you from so many opportunities. I stunted your growth under the pretense that I was protecting you. I'm sorry I did not truly love and value you until now. And so that was kind of a letter to myself afterwards.

SW: I love it. And you still read it. 

HF: I still read it.

SW: And that was a year ago. Man, it's hard. That's good stuff. Good stuff and honest stuff.

HF: Yeah, I've definitely grown a lot since then.

SW: We just beat the crap out of ourselves, don't we?

HF: We do. We really do. It was just constant negativity about myself in the past.

SW: I appreciate you this talk and you reached out to me and I love the fact that you were so honest and yeah, like, you know, I always tell people I don't know who hears it but I have to believe that some people hear it, know, there's something or parts of it where they're like feeling a little connection or a little less alone or who knows? 

HF: Who knows? Yeah, you never know who you're gonna reach and what perspectives you could bring to someone. Thank you so much for allowing me to share my story.

SW: Thank you, Helena. I really appreciate you sharing your stories. Stay well, and I hope we can talk soon. All right, have a great day.

HF: I hope so too. Thank you. Bye.

SW: As always, thanks so much for listening and special thanks to Helena down in Florida. If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to share your story, I would love to talk. Hello@SuicideNoted.com . You can follow us on social media at Suicide Noted. We release new episodes every Monday morning. So until we connect again, stay strong, do the very best you can. I'll talk to you soon.