Interview with Cheri Lynne in Michigan

July 27, 2020 

Cheri in Michigan Interviewed by Sean Wellington

Suicide Noted Podcast; hello@suicidenoted.com 

SW = Sean Wellington, CM = Cheri in Michigan

CM: If you have anybody that has tried or like I said, has any mental illness, don't shun them. They need you. They need you to show up. It's hard for us to call. It's hard for us to reach out when we're in the place where we're feeling like a burden. People think it's a selfish act when I would wager to say a good 90 % of us are thinking about everyone else but ourselves.

SW: Hey there, my name is Sean. On this podcast, Suicide Noted, I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories in their own words, their stories and their words. You know, around the world every year, millions of people try to end their lives, millions. And we don't talk about it. When we do talk about it, we're not very good at it, myself included. So the goal for this podcast is to have more conversations and better conversations with suicide attempt survivors. We are talking about suicide, so this may not be a good fit for everyone. Please take that into account before you listen. I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn. Today I am speaking with Cheri. Cheri lives in Michigan and she is a suicide attempt survivor. Hi Cheri. 

CM: Hi Sean, how are you?

SW:  I'm good, thanks so much for joining me today. 

CM: Oh it’s my pleasure. 

SW: So the first question is why did you join me today? 

CM: I'm very open about my story and if I can share my story and help anyone, just one person.

That would be my goal. 

SW: So let us begin with your, this is a big one, your story. Where can we start it for this conversation? 

CM: Well, I guess we'll go with the most lethal attempt.

SW: Sure, that's fair. 

CM: Because I was very young when I had the thoughts, but my mother was always my counselor, you know what I mean? And so,I lost her in 2015. And when I lost her, I not only lost my mother, but I lost my best friend, you know, my confidant. So I had, I felt like I had no one to go to. And I also have chronic illness and it, you know, it's not fun.  But so I was in a place where, you know, I didn't have my mom. It was the first time ever, you know, when I'm feeling suicidal that I didn't have her. And you probably know your brain, you know, I always say this little evil prick in my mind, you know, was telling me you're worthless. You know, you're stupid. You're this, you're that. And the more that I listen to that, the farther down in the hole I get, you know. And then I was in bed for probably a good two weeks just really depressed and  that voice was just hammering me, you're worthless. You're a burden on your dad. You're this you're that you know and Yeah, I got to that point where the voices overtook the wise mind and yeah, so I took a bottle of pills and I had, what did I have? I can't remember the alcohol, but because I'm not a big drinker, but I had alcohol in the pills and I'd take some pills at a time and you slowly and then people were texting me and I would like give one word answers or whatever and my best friend, who was also like my boyfriend, he flew from Ann Arbor, Michigan. It was about 45 minutes away from my house. Anyway, he flew there and when he got there, I was cold. So he was calling 911 on his way. 

SW: So was that that night you were just describing? 

CM: Yeah, that night. And then I spent seven days in, well I spent the first two days basically down on the medical floor because my heart was irregular. I had to, you know, my sinus rhythm. 

SW: So first deal with the physical. 

CM: Yeah, exactly. And then I went up to the mental floor and I woke up . I think it was Tuesday morning and I was, they were telling you to go, you know, eat breakfast and I get out there and it was kind of the stereotypical scene from what you would think of as a mental floor. There was a man walking slowly talking to himself. There was another lady that just looked so out of it, you know, and I'm like, what have I done? What did I do to myself? You know, that kind of thing. But it did help me. They did help me, I have to say.

SW:  How long were you in the hospital for? 

CM: I was in the hospital for eight days. Yeah. And I like just totally immersed myself in everything.

SW: To get better. 

CM: Yeah, exactly. 

SW: Really interesting to me that you wanted to end your life, but yet a few days later you were trying to be OK. What changed?

CM: I think when I woke up at first, I was a little angry that I woke up, you know? And then it just kind of hit me. I started thinking about my nieces and nephew and all the people I do have in my life, you know? And that made me, you know, want to continue. And I realized that I'd made a mistake, but unfortunately that wasn't the last time. 

SW: That was the first time?

CM: That was the first time that I'd been hospitalized for it, because I had done it, done different things throughout my life. But I was young and didn't really know what I was doing, which is really sad actually, but you know, to think of it that way. 

SW: Do you think of it that way? 

CM: I do, I do. I think, because I mean, I had a good life. I was loved, you know, I am loved, I was loved. I was popular and you know all that kind of stuff,  but I had the mental illness so I basically I fake it till you make it kind of attitude. So even my best friend of  40 years now something like that? She'd never knew so when I was talking to her about it. She was she was very surprised and and you know, I also revealed some molestation in incidences that she didn't know about and yeah, so I mean it made me deal with that part of my past and That led me to like molestation kind of led me to think in my twisted mind that sex or that kind of thing equated love, right? So then from basically 16 on, that's how I would try to get a boyfriend, you know?

And I never had to. That's the thing. I never had to try to get a boyfriend, but after that happened, I was like, Oh is that why, I can't keep a boyfriend? 

SW: Right getting them and keeping them aren't the same thing.

CM:  Exactly, so now I'm at a point where if, uh, if I meet somebody and we click and they want to be friends and get to know each other, they can become like a best friend. Because you have to have that foundation, I think for any relationship to work. 

SW: Is your diagnosis, were you accurately diagnosed? 

CM: Um, I believe so. Yeah. Suicide ideation, anxiety, major depressive disorder. On the psych side, I think that's pretty much it. 

SW: Right, I got it. 

CM: The medical side would take three days of a podcast to go through.

SW:  I mean, they all do overlap, but we are somewhat limited with not having days and days, unfortunately. 

CM: Right, exactly. And my physical limitations and stuff like that and my pain definitely contributed to my decision to, you know, try to end my life. I

SW: Is your physical pain permanent? 

CM: Yes. Every time I get a new diagnosis, I'm like, wow, so that makes sense why this happens, you know, and I'm at the point where I don't get shocked when I get a diagnosis now. It's just like, okay, and then I'll go and research the heck out of it and, you know, try to combat it the best I can. So I try to be as educated as possible about my mental and physical health. 

SW: Sure. How did other people respond? I assume your boyfriend at the time who came from Ann Arbor was the first person. I don't know if you were able to communicate with him. 

CM: No, in fact, my father was in the living room, but you know, he's  old-fashioned and everything. So he didn't he don't understand at all. So he didn't even know that something was wrong other than he thought I was depressed. But I had written a letter. 

SW: You wrote the note, so to speak. 

CM: Yes. Told them why and apologized basically. Yeah. So it drags you down into this, what I call, you know, like the black hole. And there's a very fine, I believe anyway, but there's a very fine line that you walk when you have disorders like this, between doing it and thinking about it. And it's like a thread, you know what I'm saying? It's that thin of a line. 

SW:  And so sometimes those external things are the difference because you're often on that thread. 

CM: Exactly. 

SW: So if all things are sort of okay, maybe you can balance on it, but something happens.

CM: That's why with my suicide group on Facebook, I always dig deeper and I don't do it on the page. I'll take them, you know, I always say anybody's welcome to message me, you know, and talk in private and I find that's the best way to help them. 

SW: Yeah, I will be sure, by the way, to add a link to that group in the description. Then just for our listeners, I found Cheri because she's an administrator for a Facebook group called Life After Attempting Suicide Survivors Support Group, if I got that right. Which has been around for, looks like about six years. And it's interesting to me because there's more than a thousand members. Now I know there are way more suicide survivors than that. Way more. Just seeing the number though, I'm like, wow, there's a lot of people out there. And that's a tiny percentage. 

CM: Exactly, yeah exactly. I mean, we get new members, and especially during this COVID pandemic, we've gotten so many new members which is good but it's sad at the same time. 

SW: Right, you'd like to have no members, but that's probably never going to be the case.  You started that group in June and you shared with me earlier that your mom passed away. Excuse me. You started the group in 2014. Your mom passed in 2015. 

CM: Right. Actually Dawn, she's the other administrator. She started the group. And then after I attempted suicide. It was like a few months after I was looking for a group for myself, you know, for a suicide survivor. And every group I went to was for the parents and family because they call them survivors.

SW: Right. It's loss survivor or attempt survivor. And there's that whole conversation about that. 

CM: Right, exactly. And at the time it made me really angry, you know,

because it was so much easier to find those groups than to find Dawn's group. And I feel blessed that I found that group. 

SW: Why do you think there were so few groups out that were in support of those who attempted and are still alive? 

CM: The stigma, the fear,  people fear telling their story because they're going to be rejected or they're going to be shunned. And in this day and age, that's asinine. It really is. It shouldn't be like that at this time, at this point in the world. But, you know, there's other things that we're now protesting that shouldn't be an issue either, you know. 

SW: Why do you think people fear that?

CM: They're afraid they're going to be judged because if you share something with a family member or somebody like that and they judge you, why would you go into a group that might judge you? You know, because you're afraid because of the stigma, it all comes back to the stigma.

SW: From my experience, and I've never tried to end my life, so maybe it's an unfair comparison, but my mental health struggles. I think there's a real valid reason to have that fear. I think it's not necessarily innate. I think it's learned because a lot of people respond negatively.

CM: Yeah, I had hundreds of friends, you know, I was part of the Detroit music scene and supporting local bands and whatnot. And I mean, you know, I'd go into a party or whatever and an event and everybody's like, Cheri, you know, that kind of thing. That's been my experience most of my life with one thing or another. And like I told you, you know, I was blessed. But once I did that and people started to find out, little by little, I had fewer friends. And that's the thing, as a human being, when somebody does something like that, to me, your first response should be go to that person. Are you okay? What happened? Try to understand. Don't just, you know, back away and leave them and ghost them, so to speak, because that just adds to the sadness of it all. Even family members have backed away from me. 

SW: Why do you think people do that? 

CM: They fear people with mental illness because I mean, let's be real. Nothing on the news or any TV show or whatnot portrays it in the right light. It's always, you're crazy, you know, instead of you're ill. They don't take it as your mental health is the same as your physical health and it needs to be taken care of. It doesn't mean you're crazy. It doesn't mean you're going to go, you know, go into somewhere and kill people or, you know, that kind of thing. I mean, I had a cousin's husband say in a chat that, I should still be in the hospital because I'm a danger to myself and others. I have never in my life been a danger to anyone else but myself. 

SW: That's a cruel thing to say. 

CM: Isn't it? I've forgiven him, but I still can't forget it so that our relationship isn't the same. It's a very guarded relationship now. 

SW: Naturally. I think if people knew the damage they did with comments like that, I'm imagining some people would still say them because their intention probably isn't very good. So damaging. 

CM: It's selfishness to me, which let's face it, you know, we're in America. Spoiled people, you know, only thinking of themselves is what's getting us into this, you know, I mean, I don't want to talk about the pandemic, but that is what's getting us higher numbers and whatnot now again. So it's just pure selfishness and not wanting to broach the subject on an intellectual level. 

SW: Yeah, what you shared about mental illness. I think I agree with what you're saying. It makes sense to me. It's been my experience. I think it's much worse for suicide though. So people have collectively, generally speaking, ideas around mental illness. They're often ill-informed. There's something that feels, in my experience, when I've spoken about suicide, my friend's suicide, the idea of suicide, that's repugnant. I can talk about mental illness with people to some degree, but most people will not talk about suicide.

CM:  Right, I was going to say, do you find that they kind of shut down when you start talking about suicide itself and they don't really want to hear it? Is it because they don't want to know that that exists, you know, that people get to that point, but…

SW: Whether they want to know or not doesn't change anything. So for me, I have rather strong feelings about that. I do think that it's exceptionally selfish. Just jaw-dropping. 

CM: I think that the best thing parents can do is just listen and love.It's that simple. Just listen and give them a safe place to speak whatever they're thinking. And don't think like, you know, if he says something about why he wanted to commit suicide, you can't say, my gosh, that's so, you're not right. You just have to listen and love that child or the person. 

SW: Right. So, I mean, when you've spoken with people about this, what are the things, what are some of the common ways they respond, whether they're intentional with it or not, let's actually assume they're very well-intentioned. But things that they say that are hurtful or not helpful or not useful. I know it's a long list probably.

CM:  But you're loved. I don't understand because you have such a great life. But look at all you have. Why would you do that to your family? They kind of throw guilt at you. I mean, look at the stars that have committed suicide. It's not about your lifestyle. It's about mental health. And if you don't take care of your mental health like you do your physical health, then you may succeed one day.

SW: When you shared earlier that you spent 40 years with one of your friends and you never shared some of your stuff, right? 

CM: No, yeah, that's correct. 

SW: Why not? 

CM: The fear of judgment. The fear of losing her. I mean, that's what it comes down to. 

SW: We know how helpful it is to talk and to vent or to create connection around being able to share your stuff. I would imagine that not only your stuff was challenging, but then not talking about it sort of compounded it. 

CM: Exactly. Yes, for sure. And that's what I said before my mom passed away. I could talk to her about anything and you know, any crazy thoughts that popped in my head, you know, and she would always be there to listen and then basically to just give me love and support. You know, I mean, when I, when I would be on a ledge on that, on that thread, she would always talk me, I won't say down, talk me up and back over to the good side of that thread and never judge me. I Didn't tell her about the molestation until after my uncle passed away. I don't know why. I think I was afraid. I think he basically said to me, who they're gonna believe type of thing. So that caused fear of telling anyone. And then actually going through my first time on the mental, on the psych ward, talking to the therapist, actually brought out another sexual assault that I had buried, I mean, just blew my mind. So I don't know if you remember the lady that was accusing that judge. And she, she could, she basically told my story. It was so, it was maddening to me.  Because I thought to myself, you know, everybody's like, no, you'll remember. No, you don't remember, your mind tries to protect you. Yeah. And so when she's saying, I only remember this or that, or this and that, you know, that was my experience. You know, I remember the carpet was like a tan, you know, I could see the bed and the, the comforter was brown and you know, that kind of thing. And people don't understand that your body, your mind will try to, you know, protect you. So, going through it to me is the only way to get healthy on the other side, so to speak.  It's like we're talking about suicide and it's the same with molestation. You need to work through it to get to the other side. You know, so that's I mean, that's the way I approach things. I try to work through them. I have a great therapist.

SW: Sounds like a really great mom too. 

CM: She was amazing. Yeah. I lost my dad this past October. And, we lived together for so long. He was more like a partner, if you know what I mean? And not in a, you know, obviously not in a husband and wife situation. So when I lost him, it was like I felt like I didn't have anybody left, you know, even though I do. I have sisters and I have nieces and nephews and friends and, know, extended nieces and nephews. So, but yeah, anything like that can trigger that suicidal ideation. Or sometimes it just comes on for no reason, you know? And I've gotten good at actually talking back to it because that's something my therapist and I talk about, you know? When it's saying, like I'll say it out loud too, when it's like hammering in my head, I'll be like, you're so stupid. You're so stupid, Cheri, you know? And then if I'm in a good place, I can say, no, you're not stupid.You're smart, you're intelligent, you know? 

SW: Yeah, that's so interesting that you could do that and it's helpful, which is wonderful. But if you did that in certain places, people might look at you a couple of times. 

CM: Oh for sure. Sometimes I don't say it out loud if it comes to me, you know. 

SW: Do what you got to do, I say. 

CM:  And I'm at the point where maybe I would say it out loud and I don't care, you know. People are going to judge anyway. You know, they judge every little thing sometimes. So it's like if I'm out in public and I don't know people then I don't care. I've gotten better but I still have times. This past winter you know I'm amazed that even to this day I'm amazed that I haven't gone into that hole because between my dad dying and friction with my sister about my house and just different things. And then the pandemic and I was sick. I was in the hospital. So, you know, I was basically bedridden all the winter and then the pandemic hit and you know, it's like, really? But I've been able to pretty much beat the thoughts that come. I've had days where I've, or maybe even a week that I've had that I just, I think of it like a pity party, I guess. And then I'll get to a point where I'm like, snap out of it. You're blessed. You know, you, yeah, I mean, I'm blessed I really am. But it's taken, you know, it's taken me five years to get here.

SW: Right. So in those five years, you, you've not tried since? 

CM: In 2016, I actually checked myself in before I did any, while I did, I did start to cut my wrist, I have to say, but. I called and talked to my niece. And so my nephew and niece-in-law sent a car for me to take me to the hospital. So, you know, before I got too bad, I was able to pull back and realize I needed help. And so, like we talked about earlier, it takes a lot of strength to do that when you're in a place of that much pain. So, but I did go in and I mean, it helped again for a little while, you know, and I was happy, happy-go-lucky, I guess. And then it was two years ago, 2018? Yeah. And then in 2018, my boyfriend had broken up with me after a year and a half, a year and a half after my attempt, he felt like he had to watch everything he said around me and stuff like that, which wasn't true. I mean, but that was his perception. Yeah. And so, yeah. I mean, I thought we had a healthy relationship. I mean he was my longest relationship. We lasted longer than my marriage. But it was on and off for eight years. But yeah, when he cheated on me in September or sorry, August of 2016. And so then he tried to become friends again after a little bit of time. And I mean, we're friends now, but it took a while, you know, but yeah, so it's just life, I think. I'm also poor, so you know, you get labeled. You get, you know, you get labeled, you get judged.

SW:  Doesn't help. 

CM: No, not at all. So I went in there,  came out seven days later, eight days, six days, something like that. And I was good. And then. 

SW: And all the while, and all the while you were starting to at least participate and help out in that group.

CM: Yes, yes. That was like a couple years before that. And I was doing good, you know. And then at one point I felt like a hypocrite.  Because, you know, do as I say, not as I do.

SW:  Yeah, I get that. I get that. Sure. 

CM: Yeah. But the last time in 2018 was enlightening, I guess. I didn't feel that the hospital had helped me, but they had sent me to a two week outpatient thing that ended up being three weeks. But that's where we all, you know, it's a group therapy thing and you're talking, you know, other people are talking about their stories and whatnot. And it's just, it helps to know that there's other people like you. 

SW: 100 percent absolutely. This is why, one reason why this lockdown or pandemic is especially concerning. I do know that there's some power in social media, like the way we're connecting right now. But I don't know if it's a replacement for some of the sort of more enriching connections people make.

CM:  I mean, the first time I had my first therapy visit on Zoom it was just, it was surreal and it just didn't feel the same, you know. And I told him, I said I'm not a fan of this because usually we hug at the end of our session, you know because you need that human connection. You know when people say hugs are medicine. They really are, it's that human connection that everybody needs whether they admit it or not, you know. And you got other people that are cold and say, oh, I'm all right, I'm good on my own. Well, you may be good, but you seem pretty miserable, you know? 

SW: Right. Middle-aged men like myself. We're good. Don't worry about it. I don't need a hug. We’re fine. Don't worry about it. I hear you. It sounded like you had a good number of people in your life, and this is going back years from what it sounds like, but also in recent stuff when you were hospitalized, like there were… It sounds like a lot of people who turned their back on you or weren't helpful or didn't know how to connect with you. And a handful that seemed okay with it. 

CM: Right, yeah and in the hospital, every time I've been in there, it's like people are drawn to me and they'll tell me, I mean, this happens out of that area as well, but whenever I'm in there, it seems people are drawn to me and they talk to me and they tell me their stories and whatnot and you know, I just give them advice on my, from my own experience. Or I'll say you need to be honest because a lot of people go in there and they're not honest with her with the therapists or you know with the psychiatrist and then it's no help to yourself. You're not helping yourself. But yeah, so the last time I was there, it really, just seemed to be every day I was dealing with other people's stuff and I'm like an empath, you know?

SW: So it ended up not being a good thing for you. 

CM: No, not at all. Not the last time. It's like I'm trying to help myself and I can't help myself, you know? But also they didn't want to send me home after the seventh day, I think it was. And so on the eighth day they had to send me home and didn't want to, but my insurance wouldn't cover it. And that's when I started that two week program. So I had to hang on basically for two days.

SW: I’m glad you did. 

CM: Yeah, me too. That's just, yeah, that's a whole other, insurance is a whole other issue. 

SW: Whole other issue, yeah, for sure. I

CM: If you ever want to do a podcast on it. I’m down for it.

SW: Yeah, no, nope. Zero desire, but it's needed. When you think about people in your life that were helpful or loving or listened or the way you've been or perhaps at least tried to be in your group or when you were in the hospital, outside the hospital. More than listening and loving, which are perfect ways to describe it, what are the things people could do that would be helpful? I get listening's helpful, I also get a lot of people don't know what that actually looks like or sounds like. 

CM: Yeah. Make sure to include them. Make sure to include them in things. Make time for them. You know, that's been my biggest. My biggest thing. I mean, I was alone most of the quarantine, you know, my nephew lives with me, but he'll pop up here and there. 

SW: So you've been spending a lot of time alone? 

CM: Oh yeah. So my best friend is my sanctuary. She has a beautiful house, it's huge. I have a bedroom in the basement. You can go there during the lockdown. Yeah, because she doesn't go out either. So we know she's safe. You know, that kind of thing. And I, and I was tested. So I know I'm safe. But I had to flee my house because my nephew was showing signs of it. so this was really the only safe place I knew. Because they're like me. It's like, spray things with alcohol and wear your mask and stay away from people.

SW: When I think about this podcast and as we're recording this and talking here, it's not even launched yet officially, right, but let's imagine that a bunch of people are listening. Okay. Some of those people have tried to end their lives. Some of those people are either thinking about it or, maybe on that path. And a third group will never, but probably just because they're on earth, will come across people who are in the first two groups. Maybe family, maybe friends, maybe colleagues. So I'm gonna put you on the spot here. Can you share something with each of those groups from your experience you think might be helpful or something that they could think about or explore? 

CM: Okay, so the first group is thinking about it? Is that what you said? 

SW: It doesn't really matter. We could say that.

 CM: So to the first group, I would definitely say what I say in my group, that's you hang on. You know, you're loved more than you know, that suicide's not the answer. You have to control and you can take control of your mind. You can get through this and rise above. And stay in therapy. Take your meds, you know, so important. Yeah, get help. That's the first thing when I have somebody in group that's thinking about it, I tell them call your therapist. You know, that's my first thing. Call your therapist. Talk to your therapist. Because generally, if you're honest with your therapist, then he can help you or she can help you. Because they know you. They know what you know, your issues and whatnot. So I think it's very very very important to seek therapy And basically research for yourself, you know, research your conditions and just get to know yourself, try to love yourself, right? You're you know, it's like, always tell people, you're unique. We're unique. Each one of us is unique. And we're, we're, you know, we're going through it. Somebody, you know, you don't know what the next person is going through.

SW:  So would that message change at all to the group that somebody's already tried once or more than once? Let's use you as  an example. You talking to you or someone like you, several attempts, a couple of hospitalizations. So some of that stuff you shared makes complete sense, but you've heard it before. Is there anything they might benefit from hearing? 

CM: Oh yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that's, that's the thing is to seek help. Don't be afraid. You know, it's just your life can be so much better if you get the help that you need. If you don't, then unfortunately you can't go anywhere. You're going to be stuck right where you're at. I try to think or I try to encourage my group to be thankful every day, wake up and be thankful for something. Even the littlest things can bring you joy. For me it can be a bird singing, kids playing. The sound of kids playing is just therapy for me. So yeah you gotta find what works for you and never give up just keep fighting you know every day. I mean people with suicide ideation especially you know you fight it every day. Some people it's really heavy. It's like a constant thing and then other people it's throughout the day. It'll just hit you and it'll say, the little prick in your mind will say something and try to get you. 

SW: That's not an official thing, a prick in your mind. That's Cheri's. 

CM: That's me. That's my thing. A little prick in my mind. He's, you know, unfortunately I do label him as a he.

SW: That's okay. There's other reasons for that maybe, but that's a different…

CM: Yeah, probably. But yeah, so, you know, my therapist told me name it. Name him, you know? Name him. 

SW: Yeah, care to share? 

CM: That's what I named him. 

SW: Oh, I thought he had, like ‘John the Prick.’

CM:  Oh, no, no no. The Little Evil Devil,  the Little Evil Bee. 

SW: Gotcha. And so what about everybody else who is, they're never gonna do it. They're never gonna think about it, really think about it. But certainly most of them will cross paths with, let's assume they're open to hearing it. What might they need to hear?

CM: If you have a friend that has mental illness or has tried to commit suicide or has any kind of mental disorder, talk to them about it. Be comfortable. Remember that it is, it's health, it's our health. It's part of our health, unfortunately.

SW: So the original, one of the original things we were talking about was stigma. And I think we've covered a fair amount here, myths and things that are misunderstood and stigma. Would you add anything else, perhaps an area of this that I didn't ask about, some sort of thing that others, people need to know about?

CM: Just the fear that a lot of people with mental illness have because of the stigma. And if we can somehow, some way, get rid of that stigma and start talking. And I think that's the only way we're gonna get rid of the stigma is for people to share their stories and for people to realize that it's not a selfish thing, you know. Most of the time we're doing it because we feel that we're a burden to others or nobody loves us. I mean I've not had that part, but there have been people that felt that way. So just listen and learn. Learning is the key. That's how I feel. Learning is the key to end the stigma.

SW: We shall try. 

CM: Yes, that's all we can do, right? 

SW: Yeah. Well, you're doing a lot by your group and supporting, you have over 1200 members in there. Yeah, great. It's one of those things. Again, you don't want it to be great because you don't want it to be anything.

CM:  But it is something and you're right. I would be happy if our numbers fell, you know, due to them, you know, feeling better and not needing everybody in the group. And sometimes people just post, you know, I try to post positive stuff in there, but the positive stuff that actually can speak to them, you know. 

SW: Even though our paths just crossed, I am glad that you were unsuccessful in taking your own life. 

CM: Thank you. 

SW: And I hope very much that you are not in the position to try again. And that you continue to take care of yourself. Sounds like you are but I also know that it's a tricky beast. 

CM: Yes it is 

SW: And there may not be any guarantees. 

CM: So right, exactly. Like my girlfriend tried to try to tell me after the last time That you know promise me you won't do it again. I said I can't make that promise. I can tell you that I'll work hard. Yeah And I'll try, but I can't guarantee.

SW: It’s all we can do. It sounds a little trite but perhaps, but it is really all we can do is try. 

CM: No, exactly. Right. And then, like I said, if you know somebody, then try to support them. Be there. Show up.I think show up show up show up. I think is the most important thing And don't turn your back on them. Because you to turn your back on them when they need you the most is generally what happens.

SW: And they're probably not going to be so quick to reach out again. I mean why would they ?

Well, I hope your day goes well and your days because I know that you did say like me that a lot of it's alone. So we do the best we can. This is helping me. 

CM: It's helping you? 

SW: Yeah. Like just having conversations and it's really helpful. 

CM: Good. 

SW: I think, I don't know if this is helpful for everybody, but for me, just hearing that things aren't great. I'm trying, but they're tough. And you hear things and it's sort of a form of a shared experience.

 CM: Oh for sure. And I think, again, for people that are suffering or whatever, reach out. To me, it's like, if you don't try, you never know. If you don't try to try something that somebody maybe their experience has taught them, so you can put that into practice for yourself. Trust people that have been there. 

SW: Well, thanks again, Cheri. It's been just really nice to speak with you and learn more about your story and your experience with other people. And I think when people hear this, they'll get a lot out of it. 

CM: I have to thank you because I've been wanting to be able to speak, you know, speak about my story and answer questions and do whatever I can.

SW: Thanks so much for joining us today. If you like this podcast, I encourage you to subscribe and leave a review because that will also help other people find the podcast and hear these stories. If you or someone you know would like to join us and share your story, you can reach us at hello@suicidenoted.com. Thanks again. Talk to you soon and stay strong.