Survivor Update #35: Emily & Marlie (Detroit Tour) 🌿

[00:00:00] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted on this podcast and the tour. I talk with suicide attempt survivors and ideators so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough. And when we do talk about it, when we engage with people in any or all kinds of pain, we're not good at it. We're not. Most of us are really bad at it. That is a problem.

[00:00:28] So one of my goals with this podcast and other related projects is to have more conversations, hopefully better conversations with survivors in large part so that more people in more places can hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less lonely. Yes, that really is the reason. If you are one of those people, you've tried once or maybe more than once or you ideated, reach out. I'd love to talk.

[00:00:51] Hello at Suicide Noted dot com. If you want to learn more about this podcast and other related projects, visit Suicide Noted dot com or nose around Spotify or Apple. It's there somewhere and you can just email me. I'm around and I'll get back to you.

[00:01:06] Today's episode takes place in Detroit, Ferndale, Michigan to be exact. Tour stop number five. The audio quality could be better, but I think it's good enough. We had a conversation with past guests, Marley and Emily and a handful of other audience members chimed in not only after the event, but during the conversation.

[00:01:30] It was a small group, it was a small group, a cool space. Keep in mind, we're talking about suicide. Take that into account before you listen or as you listen. But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Let's get to it, Detroit. This is Suicide Noted. We're in Michigan. There are four humans here. My name is Sean. Marley. Dane. Emily. Elise. This is the Suicide Noted national tour.

[00:02:00] Does that sound like it's a little bigger than it actually is? I don't think so. Not at all. You're touring there? Well, this is... Thank you. I'm serious. Good luck pushing back after that. Thank you. Well, it is Suicide Noted. That's been going on for five years, more than that. And it is national. Yes. This is the fifth stop of what apparently is, what seems to be at this point, about 15, at least 15 cities. We've had four great events. The coolest thing is that it's only my past guests.

[00:02:30] So it helped me find the locations. Without them, I wasn't going to do a tour. So I get the past guests helping me find locations, doing a little promo. Other past guests who are joining me to talk, which is incredible, yes. And it's also very bold because I think it takes a lot of courage to join me when I'm sitting at my kitchen table, knowing other people here. But there's a different thing going on because whether it's a large group of people or a small group of people, it's different when you're in front of other humans talking about this stuff.

[00:03:00] You might know them. You might not. Emily, when did we meet and talk on the podcast? Do you remember? The podcast came out April 2024, but we started the conversation January, February. I think we recorded in March. In March. Oh, then we had a conversation before the conversation. Yeah. Just a little like emailing like, hey, I think I want to do this.

[00:03:23] Do you remember why then, so it's about a year and a half at least, that you wanted to talk with me? Yeah. I purposely didn't. I only told like one person and then a hairstylist at a salon. And like, I didn't want to tell anybody I knew about it. I didn't want to. I didn't want any, like anybody in my ear about what I should or shouldn't say or think about or think about this subject.

[00:03:51] And my attempt was March 1st, 2021. So the fact that we talked in March 2024 was kind of interesting. And I kind of got past that anniversary or whatever. And I thought, okay, I'm going to do this. And I remember right after and when it came out, because I was waiting for it to come out and it came out. It was my friend Maria. It came out in the beginning of April.

[00:04:15] And so I drove up to Traverse City to see some friends because I just, it was like a big deal. Hi. How are you doing? Well, thank you for asking. Hi, my name's Maria. I've heard. Oh, you've heard about me? Okay. It's Maria. Maria. I want to let you know. Thank you for being here. Well, thank you for having me. I'm doing some video recording. Is that okay? That's fine. Do you want to scoot in a little bit? If you want to be in the picture. No, I would.

[00:04:45] That's perfect. But if you speak, then we will hear you. That's fine. So right now, I'm just chatting with Emily and then I'm going to chat with Marley. It was a big thing for that to come out. And it just felt like, oh my gosh, like that's out. Yeah. That's out. Do you remember hearing it for the first time? Did you listen? I listened to it on my way up to Traverse City to visit my friend John and his husband, Kirk. And I was just like, oh my God. I did that.

[00:05:14] And it actually was very cathartic. And my friend Shannon, who I did tell, she heard it. She was like, okay, listen. That was really, really good. And I was like, wow, really? Because I... Okay. Which you said, I mean, you may not have asked her a lot of questions, but was it great just because you had the courage to do it? Just the content. The content. Just how raw and honest it was. Yeah. And purposely, like I didn't, like I didn't even tell you until this summer, did I?

[00:05:45] Like, yeah, Marina's going to be like, bitch. But yeah, like I... Yeah, I kept that to myself. Like I was just like, I'm going to do this. And I want to do this to kind of almost free myself in a bit. Like free myself from what? The event and all of those things and kind of just let it out. And that was good. And you feel that way now? I do now. Yeah. It was hard. To this day. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:14] You know, let's keep going. Shift and shibby. No, I like feel what way? That the podcast was good? Yeah. I mean... Yeah. Yeah, and I'm not going to spend a lot of time talking about how you felt about our experience on the podcast. More of my want to hear more about your life. I'm always wondering how... Yeah, I'm a little bit curious about people's experience. Because even though you may have heard me, because you heard the podcast before you reached out, I'm still a stranger. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

[00:06:43] And you just meet on Zoom. Right. And then all of a sudden I'm asking you about... A lot of things. A lot of things that some people never talked about. Yeah. Even if they talk about it, it's... You know, it's the thing we do when we talk. We're like, I'm going to share everything. And we're going to like soften it because you can't handle... I don't want to scare you. I don't want to make you uncomfortable. So, I'm not doing... But you didn't do... I mean, I really encourage people not to be that way, at least for this... The 90 minutes we're talking. Mm-hmm.

[00:07:12] So, it's amazing to me that people do that. Yeah. You know, to trust. Yeah. But I had also been listening for quite a while. And I thought to myself, you know, this has really helped me. It has really helped me primarily because the whole purpose is to just bring it out, you know? And I guess I found some solace in that, even though I was looking for...

[00:07:38] I typed in suicide because I was wanting to kind of chase those demons. You know, I want to hear details. I want to hear. You want to make that. You know, like I was, you know, I was on... Different methods. Yeah. Yeah. I was on, you know, there's a website that tells... Yeah. Forums and everything. I was in my darkest times on these forums, reading obituaries, you know, finding as many things that had the tagline suicide in them so that I could indulge myself and maybe push

[00:08:08] myself further and further toward the edge so that I could do it. Uh-huh. And then I found this and I kept hearing people just talk. And I think the thing is, is it is raw. And I... The reason why I didn't want to tell anybody that I was doing it was because I really wanted to just be unfiltered and I didn't want any influence and how... And I was never really able to just even sit down with family and friends and be like, here, this is how I feel and this is what happened because I feel like they're...

[00:08:35] And I don't think it's intentional, but I feel like most people just have this idea of what you should and shouldn't think or do. And so because I was feeling like I can't... I don't... I just want to be able to mean completely unbridled with this and not be judged or told how to think or feel or what to say and just let it all unfold. And I, you know, I read about you and that you're a storyteller and you're, you know, good with those kinds of things.

[00:09:04] And I thought this is going to kind of organically unfold in a way it's supposed to. And I'm just going to trust that process because I, I need this for me and hopefully it will help somebody else because the other people helped me, you know, you've helped me, Marley. You know, like that it's, it's, that's, it was good. It was a good thing for me to do. Yeah. And, and you had, there was one attempt. One attempt in 21 years of ideation. I was going to ask that since 20. So you're in your forties. Yeah. 47.

[00:09:33] So you had, and we got to summarize some, it's challenging. And so many years of ideating and then in 2021, something changes. Yeah. And a lot of it was some medical stuff with hormones and they tried, I tried, I tried taking roof control and then I had problems and then they had to prescribe progesterone. And it, it, it really just tipped me right over.

[00:10:03] Like there had been so many times where I was like, I really want to do this. I really want to do this, but I would never go there fully. And this was just like, I was reading back in the medical records because I didn't even go retain the medical records until like two years after. And the medical records said, quote, she said, quote, I finally had the balls to do this. You said that.

[00:10:27] I'm here because I, I, I was taking this, whatever, it made me feel really bad. And it finally gave me the balls to do what I've always wanted to do. So it was in quotations in the medical notes. It's, it's, it's crazy, you know? And so I don't know. You know how they, they say, they, they, the proverbial, they say a couple of things. You should never ask why. And you should never ask if I'm that good.

[00:10:58] So I'm not those people. And I think we're all good here, right? With no filter. Yeah. It's important. Right. And I don't want, you know, I have a luxury in a way with podcasts, knowing people could just hit pause. You know, in person's a little bit different. So I want to make sure people are cool. But, and answering why is a really hard question because you can approach that from any number of angles. So in as best you can, why?

[00:11:27] Specifically, I mean, was it the March of 2021? I know there could be like eight different answers to this. So whatever you want to share. Why do you think on that day in March, a few years ago, you tried to end your life? I'm just as much sometimes like bewildered by it all because I'm just thinking like, it felt like I was on autopilot. It felt like it was almost an out of body.

[00:11:50] Like, I don't know what to kind of like move the needle that far that way to feel like it just moves. And I remember Gracie, my daughter, was kindergarten. And I had a rough morning with her, but I was already feeling rough because of the medication stuff that they were trying and this kind of thing. And I took her to the bus stop and I came home and I was supposed to go to work.

[00:12:20] I grew off work and I just, yeah, it was very strange. Did you overdose? I don't remember. Yeah. Yeah. It was, so I was on Simalta 60 milligrams and Topamax 200 milligrams and they prescribed me like 90 day supply and I had already used like 20. So I had 70 of those and 70 of those. And I just, out of nowhere, just like handfuls, like choking them down. And I mean, who knows?

[00:12:47] I mean, I don't know if that would have, I read the records and my vitals didn't look terrible. And my, you know, they did the activated charcoal. They did all that, but I don't remember, like I remember them coming in and I remember them getting me down to an ambulance and I could walk down the stairs with them. I'll be at shaky and the hospital was a mile away. And by the time I got to that, I don't remember. Not on one mile though. Yeah. Not on one mile. Cause there was no one mile. There was not on one mile. We're talking about the mile. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't, I don't remember that.

[00:13:17] I don't. You know, some people talk about the impulsivity of suicide. And I always wonder, I know, you know, from what you're sharing that moment, you said, you know why, right? So someone looking at that might say, that looks a little impulsive. Yeah. But I always wonder, maybe, maybe I would, maybe I feel this way. I'm looking for just confirmation, right? But you were struggling for years. Yeah. I do wonder about the tipping point for life. Yeah.

[00:13:48] And that was it. Yeah. But nothing extraordinary or extreme happened that day. It's just, and then you drive away. Yeah. But there's no way to know. I assumed when you said it like, there's no like, why 10 or 8 a.m. or whatever. Right. Stuff was there. And I went on Facebook and I wrote this big long. Oh, you did? Yeah. Is it still there? No. I wrote this big long note. On Facebook? Oh, yeah.

[00:14:18] Interesting. That's how they had people, like my people that I knew from work and friends, like they're calling to get fleeced and he had the 911 and all this stuff. But I, I just, I was losing, I lost it. Like I just really, I don't, and I think that's what scares me, especially since then, like having an attempt. Now I feel like now the odds really aren't in my favor because I'm like statistically, like I've done something already.

[00:14:46] And so when I start, like right now I'm struggling with my anxiety and depression again. And I, I start thinking like, you know, what could be the one thing that pushes me off the ledge again? And I'm, it's scary. And it's, it's, I don't know. I, you know, I've had to, I've had to block my sister off my phone and all social media. I've had to, because the last message I got was really mean.

[00:15:13] And I just told myself if, you know, what if I'm not prepared in one given day to receive some kind of content like that from her? And that just throws me off. You know, I don't, so I just want to eliminate any of that external noise because internally I'm already, you know, Maria and I talked about this internally, I'm already struggling. So the other things that could poke and poke and poke until I shoved, you know, I just don't,

[00:15:40] I don't like, just don't, I'm trying not to entertain it, but it's still, it's like a daily, it's a daily struggle that I, and it's exhausting just to be battling it all day, every day and just shoving it out. You're just trying to distract yourself or trying to, you know, do what you have to do and pushing yourself to do things. Like for me, just like getting up and like making my bed and doing these things and getting ready in the morning. And those are really easy for most people to do.

[00:16:08] And for me, I, I do them and I can do them well, but like in my head, I'm just doing this running record all the time. You know, like you've got to do this and you've got to do this and you're going to do that and you're going to do this and you're going to do this. And now, you know, and just it's, I overwhelm myself almost. So yeah, I think, I think just being able to, to like throw it out into the universe, like this is what happened and I'm going to be a hundred percent raw with it.

[00:16:36] And it, it was, it helped, it helped because the other people who came before on those podcasts were able to kind of like forge a path for, for people to say like, Hey, I don't have to sit there and like, just, just say like what you want to hear, you know, like, I'm going to just tell you what you want to hear. Part of my story, what I'm going to just share it all. Like that's, that's kind of unique. I like that. Yeah. I want to hear more about what you've gone through for sure.

[00:17:05] But there's one thing that you've said that I see, I think not a small number of people will join me on the podcast. At some point in the conversation, I could, there's more than even with me, like if I'm a suicide podcast guy, they hold back because they've been trained. Like, you know what I mean by train? Like, you just, you do it for years. So I, I'm going to show more with you than I do with some other people. Because I've heard it enough. So you don't seem like an asshole. But in this context, they seem like an all right guy.

[00:17:36] Yeah. But sometimes I'll ask like, are you being a hundred, because you should do it a hundred percent. Is this a hundred percent? Not that they have to, but if they want to, nudge, nudge, if you want to, we could always edit it out after. And sometimes you're like, all right, well, I wasn't, I wasn't totally honest. I mean, okay, cool. I go to the dog. Because why would you volunteer that after, not you, anybody after, let's say 20 years of just trying to live in the shadows? Yeah. Did you go to a, you said mental hospital? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:06] Mental health hospital? Yeah. I was in like a unit where they just had like leads and like observation. I'm like, I don't know if it was a cardiac unit or just a medical unit or whatever. And then they took me because all the medicine that I took, like, I couldn't even, like, I got up to go to the bathroom and they're like, you can't go to the bathroom. And I was like, what do you mean? And like, you can't walk right now. And I tried to like, just get up and like every part of me was just tremoring and stuff. And I'm like, is this going to go away or what?

[00:18:34] But eventually everything, yeah, they sent me within like four day time span in the hospital. They sent me over to a mental health unit. Decent? No, they're not very decent. They must be sometimes decent. No, I don't. Oh, you could tell. Yeah, actually. I take that back.

[00:18:53] I did a rotation on a psych ward that was so dreary and bleak and the opposite of life-affirming. And I thought to myself, how are individuals who are so vulnerable and sick supposed to recover, right, in this kind of an environment? But in my experience, you know, I also had this unfortunate experience like you have.

[00:19:24] I was evidently in a posh, luxurious facility, but it had been the only time I'd ever been admitted to a facility. And so I had no point of reference. So to me, even though, you know, the arts and crafts and the menus, you could select what you wanted to eat. And there was a lovely garden where you could smoke cigarettes that they would have waiting for you. Woo! And leather furniture. And even have two different types of cigarettes. Yeah, yeah. Seriously. We've got the farmhouse.

[00:19:53] We've got the farmhouse. And I remember my husband, when he came to visit me, and I was like, you know, just like devastated that I was there. And he said, you're at the Ritz-Carlton. So, but I still, I couldn't bear the feeling of being trapped. And particularly, I knew that I was diagnosed with this horrible disease, but I didn't want that association.

[00:20:22] And I was surrounded by people who had this disease and even disease more so. What's the disease? I was like, oh, that's a bipolar disease. So in any event, that was my experience. But like the dichotomy was just super star. Yeah. Horrible. It's really the way things were when, you know, people used to be bound in these places. Yeah. Not far from that at all. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a punishment.

[00:20:52] And I don't think, I'm going to be a little extreme here. But I can't make broad brush it. But I think we collectively are okay with punishing people who try to take their lives. Absolutely. It's actually a crime. It's actually against the law. Punish you when you need help. Let's punish you. What does that look like? Well, fuck you. You're going to have to live. You're going to be in a room with somebody else who has a completely different condition. You should be in a completely different facility.

[00:21:22] Recovering from heroin in my case, right? It's like, cool. I'm glad you're recovering. I don't think I want to be sharing the room with you. Right? But nor you may. And all the other things go along with it that pass for treatment are, I think, criminal. No one gives a shit what I think, by the way. But like, it's just... And then you wonder, like, okay, well, it could be this, this, a bunch of things. But you zoom out. You're like, yeah, you're basically treating people who try and have lives. Like the felons.

[00:21:50] You might not like how felons are treated, but that's a whole other podcast. And on and on there. But I think that's a lot of it. We say we want to care. We care. Yeah. You're struggling, but fuck you. You're going to be in a shitty place for a while. Do what you got to do to you. It mostly means saying you're okay when you're probably not okay. When you say you're okay, we'll let you out. Yeah, check, check, check, check. We get our jobs. Try again.

[00:22:15] It also seems like that's the mentality of the people giving care to some of us. Because I was in... Actually, I was in the hospital that Beyonce gave birth in. What? But not to you. Not to me. She didn't go down. I don't know. But... And I remember being in the bed, recovering and having some... Because I overdosed on my medication and had a very similar... It wasn't that I'd had done? Yeah.

[00:22:45] I mean, it's dangerous to say that it wasn't a time, but it was just like, I need to feel better. So let me take as much medication as I can until I do. And then you overdose. And I remember there was a nurse. Like all of the nurses. So they, you know, you can't be alone in the room. They have to make sure you don't have weapons. And there has to be someone with you the whole time. And I remember them asking me, like, why did you do it? Why? Like, don't you have... So this is interesting.

[00:23:15] I asked Emily why. Same question. There's two different questions. Very different. Because they were fairly asked. That's actually not a question. Right. That's a statement. Yes. I agree with you. Yeah. It sounds like a statement. Because the moment you say, why did you do it? Don't you have so much to live for? All right. There are people in your life who would feel... You're not... That's not a question. No. But we do this. People do this. Yeah. Are you asking me about it? I don't know. How did that? I guess. It's all being bad. But that's okay. Emily, I love this. Wow.

[00:23:44] I didn't took over. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no. I mean, it's great. But there's not. Because they're the caretakers. Well, they watch you. Right. You know. Yeah. I don't know if they were caretakers or security. Right. I know. I think it's like... Did you answer them? Do you remember? I would say fuck off. Yeah. I don't... I can't even answer. I wish I had that. Well, I'm from New York. Yeah. I'm kind of a jerk. You're not... I fake it off the podcast. I'm not...

[00:24:17] I want to feel better. Like... I just wanted to feel better. And... That's literally everything, isn't it? Right. Everybody wants to feel a little better. Yeah. Right. Are you moving in that direction? Or are you not? Let's reflect on the question you just... Question you just asked. Exactly. Are you helping me feel a little better? Exactly. Yeah. Or not. Just a chance... Because if you're not... Exactly. You are not... You should not be employed in a place like this. You certainly shouldn't be compensated. Go do another job. Exactly.

[00:24:46] A lot of good jobs out there. A lot of good jobs. Postal workers... Postal office is probably hiring. Which is an important job. Which is... But you're less... A little less... Stakes in this context are a little different. Yes. Yeah. Even in the hospital, you can do other jobs. Don't be with people... Right. ...who need bedside manner. The one... Yeah. The relationship thing. So, not great, Emily? Bouncing back to you. What? No. Your experience was not great. No.

[00:25:13] I mean, I've had a couple maybe better experiences. And, you know, listen, I've been... I've hospitalized myself a lot. So, like, a lot of times it's involuntary. Most of the time. Except for that attempt, right? So, I've even had people just look at me and say... Like, one of the nurses said, like, look around you. Like, you volunteered... Yeah. ...to be in a locked facility. Why are you doing this to yourself? Why are you doing what... She's asking. Why are you doing this to yourself? I don't know.

[00:25:43] Like, why do you keep coming back to this point of... Not... Was it a question or no? I think it could have been a statement. Like, you don't need to be doing this. You know? Oh, the things we ask that we are really asking. Yeah. So, that always was kind of like... So, you know, back at the end of February until early March, like, I took myself... That's fun. This year. Yeah.

[00:26:07] I took myself to the hospital and I remember thinking, like, I really don't want to do this. Like, I really don't, but I feel like I have to. And I took myself there and I thought, you know, I felt a sense of relief when I walked into the ER. But then even in the ERs of these hospitals, they have, like, certain sections. Like, there's a more dank, dreary, darker, like... Right. Lit, ugly...

[00:26:34] Like, Royal Oak Beaumont has this really beautiful ER, but then there's a shitty area that they take. I wonder who that's for. You know? You know? And there's security guards there. There's people detoxing. And there's people that, you know, like, are there for... And it was just even more. And then I would get agitated and I would start telling somebody off or something. Sure. And then, of course, it needs to keep you longer. Yes. Yes. So, it's just a day. Because look at your behavior. You ordained it to yourself and others. Even though I'm guessing you probably never have anyone in your life. No.

[00:27:03] So, that's all of that, too. Because, you know, and then when you finally get... I mean, I'm vividly remembering, like, standing in those rooms where they, you know, make you stripped out and do a skin check and a body check and write, like, your tattoos down and what you, you know, what you brought with you and inventorying your bags and all this stuff. And I'm standing there going, what did I just... Yes. Why did I... Yes. But I thought I was doing the right thing. Yes. Coming in. And now I'm realizing. And then usually...

[00:27:31] And you're, like, racing and just trying to get through it. And it's like, that's healing. And then it would be, like, a two-week stay. And I'd be like, great. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know. I really... I don't know. What other options are we given? That's a good question. We're not. You know, you're told when you're in trouble, call this number. There's another... There is one other option if you're very wealthy. And there's all kinds of cool retreats out in light. Yes. You know, Sedona. Yes. And they're amazing. Like, you know, they're 25 grand a day or something. Absolutely.

[00:28:01] So, if you don't have that kind of money, this is what's available. Mostly. I'm sure that in certain communities, they have others. You know, I have no idea. But mostly... Yeah. Mostly. I wonder what you got. Sometimes I wonder if it'd be... If it's actually better for their bottom line if we had died. Well, now you're asking a really interesting question. That is an interesting question. Some people are looking at you like you're absolutely... You've lost your mind to even suggest such a thing. But...

[00:28:29] Well, when insurance companies are often the ones... Or sometimes the ones who are deciding how long you care for... Yeah. That's a very valid question. Yeah? Yeah. And there's other factors we could argue also that leads you like... Or... Let's... Right? Yes? Did you tell anybody about it? Still going back to 2021? No. Secret. It was just... It was just very... Like... Like before it had been... Like that I was going to do it.

[00:28:58] Before and then when it happened. So... Wow. When it happened... You were leading up to that and then it happens. Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of public because I put it out of Facebook. Right. That was another thing. It was like very like... What... Wait. Why did I do that? But um... It's not broadcast. No. But a lot of people know. But what... I mean... Once... Once you attempted... You went to the hospital. You get out. Um... I assume in the hospital you don't have a means to... Anyhow many people. Um... Do you get back to life? Because I know you're here. I tried. Yeah. So you've made it... Mm-hmm.

[00:29:28] ... Several years. We talked. Now you're here today. So have you been... So I guess there's two questions. One is... How open were we... And it's not living. I'm just curious. Do you talk to people about it? I think there might be one person in this room that you do. And um... The second question I totally blanked. Because I'm not... I think it's like... No. I... I... I will. Like if I... Either they already know. Or... No.

[00:29:58] No. I really... Honestly. Like if I don't know somebody very well. I probably would just be like... Oh. By the way. I've attempted suicide. You know. Right. Like I just... Right. Right. And since... And it sounds like since then... You said when we first started talking that it was like 20 plus years of ideating. Is that in clearly since your attempt at 12 today? Yes. Yes. So these days you are... I do. I do. I struggle. Like I feel like sometimes it's way in the back of my mind.

[00:30:27] And I mean it's always there. But I can combat it. And I can... Well I can distract myself. I can tell myself like... No. That's not really what you want to do. Rationalize a little bit with myself. And other times it's in the forefront. And it's really strong. And I'm really, really, really trying to like figure that one out. You know. So. Yeah. Go ahead. May I speak to that? Yeah. Of course. Because with this particular diagnosis...

[00:30:57] And I can't speak to all of the diagnoses on the DSL. But with bipolar disease, I think universally what Emily just explained, that there is a constant presence of ideation going on at all times. It's either barely perceptible or it's like a pressure cooker. It has that level of intensity.

[00:31:27] But it's very rarely, you know, imperceptible. And I've spoken to many people who have this diagnosis. I come from a family where like 40% of the people have the diagnosis. And it is... It's universally felt. This is... It's not anecdotal. No, I get it. Yeah. You've lived it. You know people. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously everyone's bipolar is sort of a unique experience.

[00:31:56] There are some common threads. Yes. Ideating is... Ideating. Yeah. To different degrees. To different degrees at different times. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think that we... We maybe were making a little more space collectively to hear about people's past. If you're doing okay. Mm-hmm. Wow. But we do not do it for people who are struggling. Dare they say that word? Yeah. You get lucky.

[00:32:25] Like if we went to lunch, we could talk about it. You get... Find those people. You know. Find them right there. Find them. If, if, if. But I think for a lot of people, we just... It doesn't mean they're not feeling good. Of course. You know. It just seems like, like, I had no one to... You know what? I can't. Yeah. And so we're talking a little bit about data and the numbers of people. And it's like, there are so many... I don't need this to be true. I just believe without ever being able to measure it because you can't measure something that's not measurable.

[00:32:52] So many more people think about this stuff. And they just don't talk about it. It's just as the wrong one. They don't talk about it. And I go, why? When I was in Massachusetts for the event, there was a woman, really, really... The wife of one of my guests, Andy. Early guests. And, you know, people just sharing stuff and sharing. Some of them were survivors. We're all survivors. They had some questions. Great.

[00:33:19] And she said, one of the things that I think people need to recognize is that shame creates silence. I was like, let me see where this goes. You know what? And I got a lot to say, but I'm like, Sean, shut up. This isn't the Sean show. That's a whole other thing in and of itself. She says, that's the reason why people don't talk about it. Shame. You know, people need to talk about it. So this would be very aligned with the just mental health campaigns of just talk about it.

[00:33:49] Hang on. So we respectfully disagree. I think what I'm saying isn't against that. I think there's a missing part. But in my experience, people typically want to talk about it. And then they stop talking about it because the shit that goes on around them and the people and all that. So I'm not sure. I don't know what I said. I was trying to be very nice.

[00:34:15] And I said, yeah, no, I get a shame create silence, but so do a whole lot of people around them that in one way or another say, you know, I don't really want to talk about it. That's on the minimum. And the maximum is a cop showing up and throwing handcuffs around them. Why would they talk about it? You know? And that's the thing I don't, I don't hear much of. I'm sure it's out there. I don't like that when it gets put on you. You should talk.

[00:34:44] You struggling man, woman. It's on you. It's on you. Why aren't you finding another therapist? Why aren't you going for the 94 different medication? Why aren't you to do the sick? Whoa, whoa, whoa. No. You don't have to do that. I do play. Absolutely. It's a reason why people kill themselves. Unquestionable.

[00:35:13] I have one more question. I don't really. There's always so much more. I could talk about this now. We talked for a while. Yeah. They did a good job. Was it? It's always a lot of work. All right. I digress. Marlee is here. When did we talk? February 2010. Oh, over three years ago. Mm-hmm. All right.

[00:35:43] When we talk, actually, it doesn't matter when we talked or we're talking now. A couple of questions about the podcast, then I want to hear about Marlee's life. Do you remember if you ever listened to your episode? I did. I'm pretty sure. So, I'm thinking 20 years ago. Yeah. I lost, like, nine years ago. Ended a lot a year ago. Oh, okay. So, I just, like, totally, I don't know. I may listen to it again because I don't know if I listened to it or not. Right.

[00:36:12] Like, earlier this week. Oh, because of this? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What was that like to hear yourself? I avoided it for a while because I just, like, every time I, like, listen to myself or watch a video, you know what I mean? So, like, you cringe. You're like, oh, that's me. Like, I don't know. And it's just, gosh, a lot has happened in the last three and a half years. Yeah. It was just, like, I want to start a backhand. Thanks, Alex. Who's who?

[00:36:42] You're married? Yeah. You were married then? Mm-hmm. Did your husband hear it? And I'm not looking for more listeners. By the way, I'm just curious about it. Do people share this with people? I'm pretty sure he did when it first came out. Do you think there was anything in there from our conversation that he didn't know? No. Yeah. Yeah. And I only ask that not to get a bird's eye. Like, oh, I want to know more about your marriage. And no, it's just, I want, yeah, there are people that won't tell their status thing, that will tell somebody else who's willing to.

[00:37:11] And again, it's some weird, solid stuff. How many suicide attempts do that happen? Six. When was the first one? October 21. When was the most recent one? May. This time? Mm-hmm. When we talked, that would have been, so we talked about one. Did we talk about one or two? One. I only talked once when we took that. I understand. How old were you? 28. So that would have been, like, 24? I just turned 25.

[00:37:40] Right. And again, we talked about this. I don't remember all of it. Were you a many-years ideator before that day in 2021? I had ideated in the past. Suddenly, it was kind of like a few years where, I mean, I was really depressed, but I wasn't ideating, and then it kind of started again. In 2020, what happened? Did something happen?

[00:38:10] Or is it, like, kind of, kind of like Emily, where it's just happening, and it's hard, and then there's this opportunity? Yeah. There was never any, really, like, specific triggers. Do you have any idea why, and I know you're filtering this through memory stuff now, why that day was different? No. I mean, I guess not really.

[00:38:32] I mean, my tendency, my pattern was, like, I would think about suicide, and if I was sober, I would never, like, I just, like, I could never bring myself to do it. But I would, like, kind of, alcohol addiction, so I would get, I mean, wasted. Uh-huh. And then, you know, when you're inhibition, so I won't worry about suicide, and I do it. I don't know how to do it.

[00:39:03] You got it. You did it. For the first time. Yeah, for the first time. Was it pills? Mm-hmm. Alcohol, I know. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, as I talk, some of the original conversations, I was calling Doc. I think this is phenomenal. Hospital? Mm-hmm. Good, bad, somewhere in between. Honestly, I mean, it wasn't terrible, but also it's kind of fun. I don't know. Right. Yeah. Did you get offered cigarettes outside in the garden? Even when we did.

[00:39:32] That would be great. Right. You know, I was in a psych ward once where they gave me coffee, because most people don't want you that many coffee. And I get migraines out of my coffee. Right. Yeah. The technique was a way to make your fist look like. There was one where I went to them and gave me one cup of coffee in the morning, like a little digs to top. And I was sitting out. Yeah. Anything. Was it good? No. Okay. Well, my fingers can't be too. So that was, was that your first day in any sort of mental health facility? Mm-hmm.

[00:40:02] How many have you had from then until now? Because it sounds like there's been at least one more. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've been in patients like, I think seven times. And then like residential treatment centers and rehabs in three times. So when we talked, you wouldn't have known this then, of course. That was kind of like phase one. Mm-hmm.

[00:40:30] You didn't know if there'd be a phase two or more, but it was. Yeah. Because you've been several, several states who, different kinds of mental health facilities. And you said, was it five more times? Yeah. Were they all related? Was it alcohol and alcohol and all that? Mm-hmm. When was the most recent one? This last May. This last May. Did you, did you drink now? Not, or in May I did, yeah. But it really was a, I had been sobered for like five months from the night. We left.

[00:41:00] Earlier this year. And then, but since then. That must be hard. So. That's hard, no? Yeah. June, July, August, September. I mean, I'm a drinker. I know that it's hard for me to go a couple of days away. Honestly. I mean. It's hard. There was a time when I couldn't pull together. Or like, you know, a few days. I could be. That could be a man. And I knew like, I mean, even knowing like what was happening. Like. Yeah. If I could get the drink, like I know what's going to happen. And.

[00:41:30] Brain man, huh? Yeah. Yeah. It was. It was. Yeah. I wonder how common that is with, with clues or drugs. I know, I know the rest, but I just want to feel a little better. Like we talked about. Feel a little better. Yeah. Because it's just a doubt. It just reflects how shitty I'm feeling. Yeah. And it's on every street corner. It's everywhere. Booze. Right. Right. Oh, yeah. And I can literally see a liquor store at my kitchen. Right. Wow. Right. Okay. Yeah.

[00:41:57] More power to the people like you who can just keep doing what you're doing. Yeah. Wow. And were they all, were they all with alcohol and pills? Same method? Mm-hmm. Yeah. The only reason I ask. Well, you know, the whole tagline for the show is. I could be wrong, but I do think like even method helps people feel like, all right, somebody else did it. They could look online and see like, oh yeah, a lot of people try that way. When they hear it, you know, I think in. I'm told it helps.

[00:42:27] So I'm careful about it. But how many people in the world know about any of your attempts? And I'm not, but don't include like, actually, you know what? Do include therapists. How many people know about those attempts? You didn't want to go. Gosh, I should probably quite a few. Yeah. I mean, all right there, all of their just so bad. I didn't know, Teddy Tom doctors. Family, friends type thing? Or is that kind of? Yeah, pretty much. Because I'd be disappeared for a long day. Yeah.

[00:42:56] I didn't know about treatment centers and stuff. So yeah. I mean, quite a few people now. And of course, anyone heard of your episode. Yeah. But you don't know them. So they're like being also in Sedona for some reason. I put the person on the list that I'm thinking of happens to also be in Sedona. Oh, Marley Michigan. She seems cool. Back and forth. I think it's kind of neat. I don't know exactly how Spotify and Apple, these podcast platforms, will work in terms of like how long is he going to be available?

[00:43:25] Like, I mean, when the world implodes, they will be. But yeah. So then like maybe they'll be around for 10, 20, 15 years. It's crazy. I don't know. It's crazy. Do you IDA these days? No. No. Okay. What changed? Now I'm sounding like a therapist. Sorry. I don't mean to. No, it's a tough question. Yeah. I'm asking myself that.

[00:43:52] Like the lab, it's only, I mean, I'm on like three months. So I'm doing really, really long. But then I've never done since I was like 10 years old. Wow. And I mean, I just think. I don't know. I mean, I hit, like, I thought I was at Bottom four years ago. And then Bottom has a basement. And. Oh, wait, what is that? Bottom has a basement. We walk Bottom has a basement. That is a podcast title. Oh, really? No. Oh, I should be. You should be.

[00:44:22] And that may be memoir title. I'm going to say, no, the Eastman. Are you kidding me? I read that. I mean, I told myself, like, back in May, after I got out of the hospital, I was like, I'm going to try one more, one more time. You weren't done. What? You weren't done. So when you get out in May, try one more time to get better. Yes, to get better. So when you say one more time, you know, because to me, what I hear, like. Oh, no, no. And if that doesn't work.

[00:44:50] Well, yeah, if it doesn't work, then I'm like, then I just need to, like, I don't know what I, I, like. No, I don't want to get better. Right. Yeah. But it must be so fucking exhausting. The whole thing. It must be so exhausting. Really. I think my life, I mean, I don't know. It's exhausting. Yeah. And I think the really big thing that changed, it's hard to describe.

[00:45:15] So it wasn't, I mean, I tried, I tried, and like, I really felt that there was nothing else like that. I tried every SSRI that exists. I tried at the Tome of Mantis. I thought it. I did TMS. I did clinical therapy. Oh, yeah. I even did ECT. Uh-huh. That's what I lost my memory. Oh. And, you know, yeah, ECT, lost count of therapists and psychiatrists and inpatient psych and different residential treatments on there. I have these PhDs.

[00:45:44] And I really thought, like, there was nothing else left. And I want to say, like, it got better when it was in the same way. Like, I gave up. But not in the same way I always, you know, in the past, like, being off, I wouldn't have, like, attempted suicide. That was my giving. I didn't give up. And this time it was like, what? Like, I just give up. You know, I feel like I've spent years trying to control my journey and trying to control

[00:46:13] my depression and trying to control my suicidal education and mental health. And I couldn't do it. And so I was like, you know, this is the part. It's weird because it might get a little spiritual. But it's kind of like, you know, there's a God that exists out there. Like, this is all yours. I'm not a handyman anymore. Like, I can't. And, you know, just take that.

[00:46:42] Like, you're in charge of all these things. Whether I get, you know, whether I stay sober or not, whether I do question, whether I'm getting this better or not, like, I'm just going to just keep doing whatever the next right thing in front of me is. And then, and then, and then. And, like, just, I mean, it was crazy how, like, instantaneous that, you know, all of a sudden I wasn't thinking about drinking. Oh, wow. About, like, butter. And, like, my time and energy used to be spent all day just, like, you know,

[00:47:11] sometimes I wouldn't even get up off the couch because I was like, if I get up, I'm going to go to the liquor store. And then it's kind of like, yeah. And it just, like, it just vanished. Like, it's incredible. And it's been a weird, like, thing. To this moment. Yeah. To this guy. That's amazing. Do you think if you were still in the state of, are you in a film of suicidal, you would have come to something like this today? Mm-hmm. You would, Kane? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I didn't ask you why.

[00:47:41] Why did you want to die? Which is almost an impossible question, I realize. But so what? I'm going to ask you. I just thought, like, life was unbearable. Yeah. Yeah. It's always a perfect combination. You know, I think my personal life was looking pretty hopeless. And then I just think, like, all of humanity in the world is looking really hopeless.

[00:48:06] And I feel like I've seen them do despair really fast. Even now, like, even, you know, I'm doing it better, but I didn't, I avoid social media. Because I'll die going out there. Like, I'm just, I'm, like, it's hopeless. Like, you know, I sink really fast. And then putting myself back down a bit. I didn't ask you why you wanted to talk to me then or come here today.

[00:48:35] Because, you know, most people don't talk about it. I'm just one of those people that believe that silence makes most problems worse. And, I mean, I'm very involved in, like, the 12-step program. So now it feels pretty natural to me. I see the benefit of listening to people and talking to people.

[00:48:59] And I think my, the thing I've realized is that, you know, sometimes the way that we've suffered or the way we are wounded, for lack of better words, enables us to help people with similar struggles. In ways that other people, you know, as good as the intentions would be, never can.

[00:49:26] And I benefit from listening and sharing and, or helping people on their family. That helps me, too. It's not just, you know, I work, like, talking to people about you, you know, blah, blah, blah. You know, you don't understand. Like, that's helping me. Like, I'm glad you reached out. It's not a burden at all. I'm so glad you reached out. I mean, I get it. Because, like, I've always, I don't want to call this person. I don't want to bother them. I don't want to bother them. Blah, blah, blah.

[00:49:55] But it's always the opposite for me. I appreciate it. Yeah. So I want to engage in as much as you're comfortable sharing why you came here. You. Okay. And what the connection to suicide was. Okay. Sweetwater. Well, I've never, sure, I felt loved before. I've never had, like, ideas or things like that.

[00:50:21] But when it grew me to your podcast, my tears were raised just because I can still think about it. And so, like, my good, good friend growing up, that ground, I love my friend. So he was friends. We were friends. Like, out of high school. Probably, like, into our 20s. Just loved him. He dated my best friend, Tim, at the time. And then Tim and he broke up. And then we got even closer. But the three of us always hung out.

[00:50:50] And I'd go to, like, all the sweet bars. I'd be in, like, Backstreet and Mid-Jos. And, like, my Halloween time was bad. So nothing bad happened. We just kind of, you know, got busy with work. And just, you just get busy with life. We just kind of drift away. And then I ended up starting dating my husband. Anyway, my husband was kind of, like, insecure about, like, you know, guy friends. So, I don't know. I just, sometimes it's easier than just, I don't know what to say.

[00:51:19] I didn't ditch my friends. But you just get busy. And you just focus on work and family and stuff like that. But I always saw that my friend. And every now and then I'd look him up. And I saw that he was, like, an interior decorator and things like that. And I should have reached out. I should have. So, I have a lot of, like, regret that I just never think that the phone had called. I should have. I love my friend. And so, anyway, I ended up getting divorced, like, just recently.

[00:51:49] And, like, when I told my husband to leave, that was, like, 2023. 23, and my first thought was, like, man, I'm going to, like, call that ground. And it's going to be, like, way back in the day. I just love my body. I need my body. So, I went to my family. I found his obituary. And when I found out that it was suicide, that ground had two sisters. And the youngest one passed away before he died.

[00:52:18] And she died of, like, I think a brain injury. So, her obituary, because I remember she was, like, a young high school kid at the time. And we were, like, college or outside of college. And, anyway, on her obituary, it showed her husband and her kids. And my friend at work named Jen is dating this guy named Larry. Because I'm, like, anyway, long story. I'm, like, why is it named Larry and these two boys? They didn't sound familiar.

[00:52:46] Holy shit, my friend at work, this other teacher I work with, is dating Larry. So, she was the one who told me, oh, Jack Brown died. Anyway, that's how I found out he died. And I just remember being at work. And she said, oh, that's the guy who committed suicide. When she said it, I was just destroying me. So, then I started listening to a podcast, because I went into it with the wrong questions.

[00:53:14] My questions was, like, does he know how great he is? Does he know? It was always, like, does he know? Fill the blank. Love my friend. And I, like, still kicked myself in the ass for never reaching out. I should have. I should have multiple times. I just didn't. So, I started listening to a podcast because it was, like, how could this happen? How could this be? It was, like, oh, my God, just something I'm in love with at any day. And then we'd always be there.

[00:53:44] So, then, after listening to your podcast and after listening to so many people, I realized I was just asking her questions. I'm sure he didn't know how much he was loved. I'm sure he struggled. But I realized that the pain, whatever pain he had, you don't know what pain he had, but whatever he had was bigger. It was bigger than any pain in love he knew he had. So, that's why I started listening to podcasts.

[00:54:13] It's just almost like my therapy kind of helps, like, to see and to hear what people are going through. Yeah, they know their loved, like, dad, but it was just so overwhelming. Totally. And, yeah. And also, my aunt, like, I really never liked Graham, but she committed suicide, like, 2023. She shot herself. She was 81. I think she never, I think she never got over her childhood.

[00:54:42] My grandma was super neglectful, super neglectful. So, I guess that's the secondary reason I listen to the podcast, but it's mostly my friend at Graham. You bring up such a good point about fleshy. I think you nailed it. Like, what other questions are there? One of them is, like, are you really asking questions? But also, what is the question? Right. I mean, yeah. And he was so awesome.

[00:55:09] But for you, just to come up with, well, it might not come up with. Like, how do I find this? Let me talk to you up for a second. It may be that we'll never understand. Yeah, I know. And then you've got to figure out, you don't have to, okay, am I cool with that? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or no? You don't have to do that. You could think about it for the rest of the day. Because unless something, arguably, something supernatural happens, probably you're never going to have all that.

[00:55:39] Even if I, and then even if I ask, even if I can't do that, I'm not going to do that. I can talk to him. He might not know exactly how the answer. Yeah. Then they do articulate it in a way where even his close friend could get it. It's so hard. Yeah. And I know even when I was first, years ago, I know there was things that bothered him. I know he struggled feeling loved, I think.

[00:56:07] I know he struggled, like, coming out and things like that. And it just, I think his body, I don't know, it's hard when you're, like, in your 20s, I guess, to date people. He'd go to, like, the bars and I just see my people. I don't know. I don't know if that. I don't know. Yeah. But, I don't know. I'll have to find out. But, I just think the world of it, you know? And I still do. And, uh... So, I was going to ask you that. I, this is a practice for a time survivors, but some of them are lost survivors.

[00:56:37] And I don't usually go in depth with the lost stuff. But you just said what I was going to ask, which is, like, did his death, the way he died, affect how you feel about it? I've always loved him. I don't know. Even when we went to do really crazy stuff when we were younger, I just knew he always was so protective of me. Like, almost like an older brother, you know? Even though we're only six months apart, he just felt like he was truly, like, a brother, a protector. When did that? March, 2023.

[00:57:07] Okay. And you found out also? And I found out, like, um... Yeah. Like, right after, I think it was April? I saw... Like, I mean, I looked at him, like, right then. I was just going through my, uh, separation with my husband. And I'm like, dude, I don't know why. I just thought, let's get him the hell out of here. And I'm going to hang out with that guy. It's going to be, like, all the time. It's going to be sweet. And it was fun. Hey, guys. We're going to wrap it up. I want to thank you all very, very much. And special thanks to Marley and Emily.

[00:57:37] Updating their lives. Past guests showed up. And Emily for helping me find this place. In Detroit. Ferndale, to be exact. When we met back in October. Appreciate you spending some time with me. Getting some lunch afterwards. And to our listeners. Appreciate you very much. If you are a suicide attempt survivor or ideator and you'd like to talk, please reach out. Hello at suicidenoted.com. I'd love to talk with you. Check the show notes. The podcast description. Suicidenoted.com. Reach out to me if you're curious.

[00:58:06] If you want to learn more about this podcast. Ways you might want to get involved. Contribute. Whatever it may be. I'm around. The information is available. Please reach out. Thanks for that. And that is all for this episode. Stay strong. Do the best you can. I'll talk to you soon.