Stefan in Colorado

[00:00:00] I didn't want to be in pain because that's the thing with depression and I don't think a lot of people talk about necessarily is that it's painful internally at the painful at least for me

[00:00:30] Hey there my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted on this podcast I talk with Suicide Attempt Survivors so that we can hear their stories every year around the world millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it

[00:00:45] We certainly don't talk about it enough and when we do talk about it many of us including me were not very good at it

[00:00:50] So one of my goals is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with Attempt Survivors in a large part to help more people in more places feel a little less shitty and a little less alone

[00:01:02] And if you have been a part of this since summer of 2020, thank you

[00:01:06] If you are a Suicide Attempt survivor and you'd like to talk please reach out

[00:01:10] Hello at SuicideNoted.com on Facebook or Twitter, slash X at Suicide Noted

[00:01:15] Check the show notes to learn more about the Suicide Noted Podcast including our membership

[00:01:21] Massive thanks to Helena I hope I'm saying your name correctly she just joined as a member

[00:01:26] Thank you Helena as I said I appreciate your support and if you're able and willing to give that kind of support we could really use it

[00:01:32] Finally we are talking about Suicide on this podcast we do not hold back so please take that into account before you listen or as you listen

[00:01:41] But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn today I am talking with Stefan

[00:01:46] Stefan lives in Colorado and he is a Suicide Attempt survivor

[00:01:54] Mr. Stefan and you're in Colorado

[00:01:57] Yes sir Denver

[00:01:59] Nice city

[00:02:01] It's alright it's grown a lot because I'm from here but it's pretty good

[00:02:05] Okay claim to fame for Denver and I follow sports so I know about the Rockies

[00:02:11] And the Avalanche and the Nuggets

[00:02:15] And we know that you're high up in altitude

[00:02:20] I mean generally pretty beautiful today is kind of gross it's overcast and gray

[00:02:24] But normally yesterday was 60 and so many

[00:02:27] Yeah you guys have that really nice sort of nice air big sun feel vibe going

[00:02:33] Absolutely

[00:02:34] Which is a pretty sweet combination

[00:02:36] What is your background your ethnicity

[00:02:38] Serbian like my dad integrated into the US back in the 80s from Serbia

[00:02:43] Oh that's more interesting than mine but we are ultimately just couple of white dudes talking about Suicide

[00:02:50] Yeah bald white dudes talking about Suicide

[00:02:52] Exactly always interesting for me to start

[00:02:56] I like starting in new places each time but there are just certain things that matter more when we begin

[00:03:02] And the natural one is where did you buy that great jet now I'm just kidding

[00:03:06] Why did you why does Stefan in Colorado seek out something with the S word in it

[00:03:15] Last year was a rough year putting it mildly

[00:03:19] And back in November I attempted suicide

[00:03:22] A full attempt like went for it

[00:03:25] Was something you had never done before

[00:03:27] I'd gotten close but never to that one

[00:03:29] That's November

[00:03:31] You reached out if I remember correctly few weeks ago

[00:03:35] Yeah not a few months ago

[00:03:37] No so I found the podcast after my attempt in December

[00:03:41] And I started listening to a couple episodes and I was like oh well this sounds interesting

[00:03:47] So I thought I don't know why not reach out

[00:03:50] And I noticed a lot of the episodes you post are generally a lot of women

[00:03:54] Or a novel

[00:03:55] I know and I figured like that's who's reaching out and like every once in a while there's a guy on and I'm like well

[00:04:01] You know I fit into the category of what's going on and I'm comfortable talking about it so why not

[00:04:07] Yeah I'm glad you did

[00:04:09] Me too

[00:04:10] When you see your comfortable talking about it you mean something like this or do you actually talk about it with other people in your life

[00:04:16] I talked about it with other people in my life

[00:04:18] It took me a while like I didn't like after it happened I didn't tell anybody for like six weeks

[00:04:24] And then I told my brother and then my really really close friends about what happened recently told my mom

[00:04:31] How did mom take it?

[00:04:32] That was the hard one

[00:04:33] She did all right she did better than I thought she would do

[00:04:36] It was intense

[00:04:38] Yeah I don't really know a better way to say because it's hard to tell your parents that

[00:04:41] And she's a fixer so for her and slim

[00:04:44] Oh okay how are we going to get you better what are we going to do?

[00:04:47] I'm like I don't need that

[00:04:48] I just want you I just want my mom here you know

[00:04:51] Did she connect with what you were saying?

[00:04:53] No yeah then a good or bad thing but if you're a fixer you're a fixer

[00:04:56] She was able to just sit there and listen

[00:04:59] And be there for me which was huge

[00:05:01] Yeah good for mom go mom go Stefan's mom

[00:05:06] She's a great lady

[00:05:07] I'm really lucky to have her

[00:05:09] Gonna go out on a limb and see if she probably feels the same way about you

[00:05:12] Oh I hope so

[00:05:14] I'm stressed throughout a lot in the last year but I know

[00:05:17] Now before we sort of like dive in really

[00:05:20] What we have already why are you in a car?

[00:05:22] I wanted some privacy

[00:05:24] My brother's at home right now

[00:05:26] And then I have to go to work after this

[00:05:28] Kind of work

[00:05:29] I'm an nutritionist

[00:05:31] Cool

[00:05:32] Yeah it's all right

[00:05:34] I'm kind of actually looking to get out of it

[00:05:36] Just I've done it for eight, nine years now

[00:05:38] What are you gonna do?

[00:05:39] No

[00:05:40] I kind of want something with a little bit less emotional responsibility for other people

[00:05:43] Even though we're talking about food and diet and supplements

[00:05:46] I get people coming and crying sometimes

[00:05:48] And it's like I can hold that space but I gotta work on me too right now

[00:05:53] Sometimes I wish I were just like some sort of craftsman

[00:05:56] Right

[00:05:57] You look like I build cabinets for people

[00:05:59] I'm not that easy I know but like

[00:06:01] And yes you know in business you might deal with an angry customer

[00:06:04] There's always some emotional component

[00:06:06] But like the bulk of the time is like you're making or building

[00:06:10] Or maybe even fixing

[00:06:12] That might be better in some ways for me

[00:06:15] Oh yeah no I fully understand

[00:06:17] I thought I was gonna do art when I graduate at high school

[00:06:20] But I ended up going into a science field because my mom is an atropath

[00:06:24] Okay well very well balanced

[00:06:26] So you go back in your life

[00:06:28] And you think about growing up

[00:06:30] You're in Colorado

[00:06:31] Given the context of what we're talking about

[00:06:33] What was that like for you?

[00:06:35] I wouldn't say we had easy lives growing up or we had a single mom

[00:06:38] That was not really present and an alcoholic

[00:06:42] So he wasn't really in our lives much

[00:06:44] It was tough

[00:06:45] I mean I didn't realize how poor we were until I got older

[00:06:48] Like us going out to do something would be go to the malt to look at things we can't buy

[00:06:52] And around people probably not that far from you who were not poor

[00:06:56] Yeah

[00:06:57] In 2007

[00:06:59] We moved to Hawaii I was in eighth grade

[00:07:02] And we're living on 20 acres in the woods

[00:07:04] My mom's an interesting lady

[00:07:06] What island?

[00:07:07] Big island

[00:07:08] Big island that's Hawaii right?

[00:07:10] That Hawaii

[00:07:11] Hawaii Hawaii

[00:07:12] And you're in the middle of the woods with what your brother?

[00:07:15] With my brother and my mom and her partner

[00:07:17] How are you doing there?

[00:07:19] Fantastic question

[00:07:21] I'm known for that Stefan

[00:07:23] It's a good one

[00:07:25] The reason she moved out there

[00:07:27] She wanted to be more self-sufficient

[00:07:29] Have property, build a house

[00:07:31] Open a healing retreat because again she's an atropath

[00:07:33] That's what her dream was at the time

[00:07:35] So we moved out there in 2007

[00:07:37] There were parts I missed but it was a rough time

[00:07:39] A lot of poverty

[00:07:41] Me and my brother lived in tents for three years

[00:07:43] My mom and her boyfriend were in tents the whole time

[00:07:46] But like 10 by 10 tents, pretty big

[00:07:48] Let's go with 10

[00:07:50] So we're building the house, clearing rain forest

[00:07:53] Like gardening

[00:07:54] We grew I would say probably 80% of our food

[00:07:57] Pretty cool

[00:07:58] But maybe for a 13 year old not great

[00:08:00] I don't know

[00:08:01] No, it wasn't great for a 13 year old

[00:08:03] It gave me a lot of really good life skills

[00:08:05] It gave me a lot of perspective

[00:08:07] I have a hard time with some people

[00:08:09] Who don't have a realistic idea of what going without is

[00:08:13] So I'm gay

[00:08:15] And I've got on dates for guys

[00:08:17] Like oh yeah, I spent $400 on jeans

[00:08:19] I'm like that's what I would spend on jeans in three years

[00:08:22] You don't have a concept of like actually working for it means

[00:08:27] I guess

[00:08:28] Not even that really but like complicated

[00:08:30] Going without

[00:08:32] And really understanding what you actually need and what's just frivolous extra

[00:08:36] So those were mostly first dates

[00:08:38] Yeah, yeah, I was like oh

[00:08:40] Like you won't understand me as a baseline as a human

[00:08:43] Sometimes don't you wish you would just fucking rich

[00:08:45] All of them

[00:08:46] I would go back to the woods and know whatever here for me again

[00:08:49] Is that my family?

[00:08:50] I mean let's not like let's not candy code him in being poor

[00:08:54] Well going without is can be really fucking hard

[00:08:57] It's traumatizing in a lot of ways

[00:08:59] My last boyfriend

[00:09:01] We were together five years and I told him this story

[00:09:03] And I was like, haha isn't this funny

[00:09:05] But me and my friend

[00:09:07] We were in a pack sent in the mall

[00:09:09] And we found some like someone left to make Donald's bag with a half-eaten burger in it

[00:09:13] We tore off the half-eaten bit and like ate the rest of it

[00:09:15] And we're just like so hungry

[00:09:17] Teenagers you know

[00:09:18] Like you can never get enough to eat in a way we're eating twice a day

[00:09:22] Like dinner and maybe lunch at school

[00:09:24] Sometimes like a breakfast on the way

[00:09:26] And if we could afford it

[00:09:27] It's expensive out there

[00:09:29] Yeah, so I was like, haha packs on burger isn't that funny

[00:09:33] And my ex was like you know you deserve more than that

[00:09:36] And I like broke down

[00:09:38] Because I never thought about it that way

[00:09:40] Like you deserve more than a half-eaten hamburger

[00:09:43] Yeah, I never really thought about it

[00:09:45] About it like that

[00:09:46] Because in that moment you're just surviving

[00:09:47] You're just getting what you can

[00:09:48] Do you go back to Colorado at some point?

[00:09:51] We moved back in 2012

[00:09:53] Honestly it was like the best thing that could happen for me when we were in the middle of the world

[00:09:56] Were you done with high school at that point?

[00:09:58] Yes, so you finished in Hawaii

[00:10:00] Are you out at that point?

[00:10:02] Yeah, um, haha

[00:10:04] My brother outed me because I was having a really hard time

[00:10:07] My mom didn't know

[00:10:08] He's also getting

[00:10:09] It doesn't excuse it

[00:10:11] And I'm actually kind of glad he did but it was rough in the time

[00:10:13] So they didn't get to do it on my time schedule

[00:10:15] Sure

[00:10:16] And we're leading up to this not only the recent suicide attempt

[00:10:20] But you had also mentioned a near attempt

[00:10:23] Perhaps more than one in the past before that

[00:10:25] Yeah, I mean looking back

[00:10:27] I was dealing with a lot of depression once puberty really started

[00:10:30] Being points that you don't think about it

[00:10:32] So you're just like I'm just gonna get through and life's just shit

[00:10:35] Life's shit and I just have to get through it

[00:10:37] So there were a couple times where I had like sat in my bed with like a knife

[00:10:42] And I was like I'm just gonna cut my wrists

[00:10:44] And just be done with that

[00:10:45] This was how old?

[00:10:46] 15

[00:10:47] Hawaii

[00:10:48] Hawaii

[00:10:49] Sat in a bed in a tent?

[00:10:51] Sorry I get very visual

[00:10:52] No no you're good

[00:10:53] So yeah, eventually we got beds

[00:10:55] We were in 10 cuts for a while but yeah I had a bed at one point

[00:10:58] That was a big upgrade

[00:11:00] There's a lot of kids right now who sit in their beds or somewhere doing what you did that might hear this

[00:11:06] So you know how to wear they're close

[00:11:08] They're probably not gonna do it but the it's a sharp thing and they're starting to fun you know

[00:11:13] Yeah

[00:11:14] And that's what you were doing

[00:11:15] Yeah

[00:11:16] Well the only thing that really stopped me at that point

[00:11:18] Was I didn't want to hurt my mom

[00:11:20] And I didn't want to be in pain

[00:11:23] Yeah

[00:11:24] Cause that's the thing with depression and I don't think a lot of people talk about

[00:11:27] Necessarily is that it's painful sometimes internally at the painful

[00:11:32] At least for me, you should say

[00:11:34] Yeah a lot of people aren't gonna understand that

[00:11:36] Yeah and I don't know a better way to describe it

[00:11:38] However, most people who listen to this podcast probably will

[00:11:42] Yeah

[00:11:43] So some degree

[00:11:44] So looking back

[00:11:45] How do you go into a doctor

[00:11:47] Let's say they were really good at what they were doing

[00:11:49] They would have said Stefan you are clinically depressed

[00:11:52] I think so

[00:11:53] I think at that point yeah

[00:11:55] No meds, no docs

[00:11:56] Nope

[00:11:57] But I would have like always being the back of my head like well

[00:11:59] Bad enough day, you just kill yourself

[00:12:01] You know

[00:12:02] You think about other ways to do it

[00:12:04] Back then no

[00:12:05] Cause I didn't really have a lot of options

[00:12:07] Not to be morbid but I couldn't hang myself

[00:12:09] I didn't really have anywhere to do that

[00:12:11] That would hold up my body weight

[00:12:12] I'm like six foot and two forty

[00:12:14] As I've gotten older

[00:12:16] Yes, I've thought of other methods

[00:12:18] I'm like, I'm just a car in the garage

[00:12:20] Just let myself suffocate

[00:12:21] Yeah, the car one it would be easy if you have a garage

[00:12:23] I think so

[00:12:24] And are we giving people ideas?

[00:12:26] I don't think so

[00:12:27] They know them

[00:12:28] They're out there

[00:12:29] We're not talking about some super really weird obscure new thing here

[00:12:33] Sometimes I'm like

[00:12:34] Should I include this in like

[00:12:36] You know what?

[00:12:37] Yeah, it's fine

[00:12:38] We're just talking about things

[00:12:39] You are, so your teenager

[00:12:41] Let's say you're ideating

[00:12:43] I think that's the right word

[00:12:44] As you get older

[00:12:46] Particularly when you move back to Colorado

[00:12:48] And you said it was the best thing

[00:12:49] Does that wane for a while?

[00:12:51] We'll go away

[00:12:52] It does

[00:12:53] Cause my situation has improved

[00:12:55] It definitely went away for a while

[00:12:57] I was able to kind of like pull myself together

[00:12:59] For a long time there

[00:13:00] From like twenty-twelve to twenty-fourteen

[00:13:03] It was fine

[00:13:04] I wasn't really thinking about it

[00:13:05] I was in school working two jobs

[00:13:07] Trying to build my life

[00:13:08] We finally had a decent amount of money

[00:13:10] Cause my mom started her practice

[00:13:12] And we were finally comfortable

[00:13:14] Like not worrying about things for the first time ever

[00:13:16] So things were good

[00:13:17] And then I moved out on my own

[00:13:19] In 2013 with a friend and that fell apart

[00:13:22] And then that winter of 2013 to 2014

[00:13:25] I was sexually assaulted

[00:13:27] And after that point

[00:13:28] It was a very gradual downhill slide

[00:13:31] At any point before or after that

[00:13:34] Get any outside support

[00:13:37] Professional or otherwise?

[00:13:39] Yes, but not right away

[00:13:41] Much after like seven years later

[00:13:43] So not that long though

[00:13:45] No, twenty-twenty is when I started working on it

[00:13:47] So what's going on between around winter 2013 to 2020

[00:13:51] When you're essentially like

[00:13:53] What we call it?

[00:13:54] Is it white knuckling it?

[00:13:55] Is that the expression?

[00:13:57] I would say that's what it was

[00:13:59] I was working a lot

[00:14:01] Like 60s, 70 hours a week

[00:14:03] I had two full time jobs

[00:14:05] And school at one point

[00:14:07] That's superhuman

[00:14:08] Yeah and I really burnt well

[00:14:09] I was running

[00:14:10] Keeping myself moving

[00:14:11] And I was just trying to deal with what happened

[00:14:13] And it probably does work to some degree

[00:14:15] For only so long

[00:14:16] Yeah, for a little while

[00:14:17] But in the moment

[00:14:18] Like you said, even back referring to Hawaii

[00:14:20] It's survival map, right?

[00:14:22] Isn't it?

[00:14:23] Yeah, I was just trying to survive

[00:14:25] And the only way I knew how

[00:14:26] Which was to work hard and get through it

[00:14:28] So now when you look back

[00:14:29] What wasn't working?

[00:14:30] Oh, I was shut down

[00:14:31] I would go into my room after work

[00:14:33] And just sit in the dark

[00:14:34] And stare at the wall for six hours until I fell asleep

[00:14:36] This is probably like basically your twenties

[00:14:38] Yeah, early twenties

[00:14:40] Yeah

[00:14:41] Drink, smoke, cut, nothing

[00:14:43] Nothing

[00:14:44] I got drunk one time before I turned 21

[00:14:46] Oh you're so boring Stefan

[00:14:48] I caught up with him

[00:14:50] Okay that's coming soon here in the narrative

[00:14:52] I got you

[00:14:53] Six hours is a long time debuting

[00:14:55] Just about anything

[00:14:56] Staring at a dark, blank, whatever wall

[00:14:59] Are you numb at that point?

[00:15:01] Are you thinking like what the fuck is going on?

[00:15:04] I couldn't even afford myself that

[00:15:06] It was just don't think

[00:15:07] Don't feel anything

[00:15:08] Just exist

[00:15:09] Are you presenting to the world

[00:15:11] In a way where most

[00:15:13] If not most people will be like

[00:15:15] He's fine

[00:15:16] Yeah, oh yeah

[00:15:17] I can put on the mask

[00:15:18] And pretend I'm happy

[00:15:19] Pretend everything's good

[00:15:20] Until I'm getting a little burnt

[00:15:22] Until a point

[00:15:23] But then I could just do it all the time

[00:15:25] No one really knew

[00:15:26] I just couldn't

[00:15:27] For a couple of people about what happened

[00:15:28] But I would never talk about it

[00:15:30] Other than

[00:15:31] When you say what happened

[00:15:32] You mean the assault?

[00:15:33] And you do it for a while

[00:15:35] Man, this is because

[00:15:36] And we're not talking about months

[00:15:37] This is years

[00:15:38] Years

[00:15:39] I spent my early 20s

[00:15:40] Just trying to keep myself alive

[00:15:42] It worked

[00:15:43] It worked

[00:15:44] I'm still here

[00:15:45] I mean, yeah

[00:15:46] That's one of the things

[00:15:47] I can always know for sure

[00:15:48] When did things start to get less easy

[00:15:51] And you can't fake it

[00:15:52] Or you can't deal in a way that you had been

[00:15:54] When my relationship

[00:15:56] So we were together for five years

[00:15:58] And the last two years of it

[00:16:00] I was really falling apart

[00:16:01] I wasn't managing well

[00:16:02] I was my depression

[00:16:03] I was getting worse

[00:16:05] On top of all that

[00:16:06] I have hypogonatism

[00:16:07] So I don't make enough testosterone

[00:16:08] Which makes depression even worse

[00:16:10] What does that mean?

[00:16:11] Hypogonatism

[00:16:12] Hypogonatism

[00:16:13] So you don't produce no sex hormones

[00:16:15] Hypogonatism

[00:16:16] Hypogonatism

[00:16:17] No energy always tired

[00:16:18] My body would just hurt

[00:16:20] I would cry sometimes four hours a day

[00:16:22] Because your mood gets so low

[00:16:24] You can't even maintain

[00:16:26] And there's nothing to treat it

[00:16:28] I have to treat it

[00:16:29] I have to treat it

[00:16:30] I have to treat it

[00:16:31] And there's nothing to treat it

[00:16:32] I have to do testosterone

[00:16:33] Gotcha

[00:16:34] But that wasn't something you knew about or treated

[00:16:37] When did this start being treated?

[00:16:39] Oh, that's a good question

[00:16:41] 2017

[00:16:42] Okay, so there are years where you have the thing

[00:16:44] Unless it developed in 2017

[00:16:46] There's definitely part

[00:16:48] I think it was because of the stress of the sexual assault

[00:16:50] Honestly

[00:16:51] Right

[00:16:52] So when we talk about white knuckling

[00:16:53] This is another part of it

[00:16:54] Yeah

[00:16:55] When does the relationship break up?

[00:16:57] 2021

[00:16:58] When you referred earlier to the almost

[00:17:01] Was there almost just one other or more than one?

[00:17:03] I would say there were times I got close

[00:17:05] Like I would be on a hike

[00:17:06] Oh no, no, here's the better one

[00:17:08] So my office building is on like the eighth floor

[00:17:11] There was a time I was just standing on there

[00:17:13] My brain's like just throw yourself off

[00:17:14] Just do it

[00:17:15] And like it took a lot of will power

[00:17:17] To just walk back inside and not pay attention to that

[00:17:19] I would consider that an almost

[00:17:21] Yeah

[00:17:22] Is there something else beyond will power

[00:17:24] That prevented you

[00:17:25] Or is that the right or only way to describe it?

[00:17:27] I would say it's a combination of will power

[00:17:29] And a feeling of responsibility to those we care about

[00:17:31] And do want to know about the hike example as well now

[00:17:34] Oh yeah, well I live in Colorado

[00:17:36] So there's really fantastic hikes

[00:17:38] It's beautiful but when you're up there

[00:17:40] And it's like a 300 foot drop

[00:17:42] You're like, oh well

[00:17:44] I'm pretty sure I wouldn't survive that

[00:17:46] Just a quick little jump and great view on the way out

[00:17:49] The easiest way to be living

[00:17:50] Absolutely

[00:17:51] Not really living

[00:17:52] Surviving

[00:17:53] Your relationship breaks up in 2021

[00:17:56] And you try in 2023

[00:17:59] Yeah

[00:18:00] So what are those two years like?

[00:18:02] Or two plus years?

[00:18:03] I mean, I was kind of out of control the last two years

[00:18:05] In the time period since 2019 to now

[00:18:08] We've had five deaths in our family

[00:18:10] My great uncle died

[00:18:12] My aunt who was 39 died

[00:18:14] My dad's mom died

[00:18:16] My grandpa died

[00:18:17] And then my dad died in 2022

[00:18:20] Wow

[00:18:21] At what point did you say you started getting

[00:18:24] Counseling therapy, whatever the right word is?

[00:18:26] Well I've been in therapy on and off

[00:18:28] Kind of more like if things got really intense

[00:18:30] I just need an outlet

[00:18:31] I would go

[00:18:32] Yeah

[00:18:33] That was getting consistently until 2020

[00:18:35] Till 2020

[00:18:36] Did anyone ever put you on meds?

[00:18:39] No, because I wasn't seeing the psychologist

[00:18:41] I was just seeing it there at best

[00:18:42] Sounds like 2020

[00:18:44] Also it was COVID obviously

[00:18:46] That things get rough

[00:18:48] It started out okay

[00:18:49] And then it got rough

[00:18:50] Because you're dealing with your own relationship

[00:18:53] And death in the family

[00:18:55] So I'm always wondering how people cope

[00:18:58] Now you did mention something about catching up with alcohol

[00:19:01] So that's on my mind

[00:19:03] But like how are you coping?

[00:19:05] At that point it was

[00:19:07] Oh, I mean I really wasn't

[00:19:09] I started smoking in 2019

[00:19:12] Secret

[00:19:13] Vade first and then cigarettes

[00:19:15] And 20 to the six

[00:19:16] Gosh you

[00:19:18] I do everything backwards

[00:19:20] I started out with that way

[00:19:22] I started smoking

[00:19:24] I then started smoking weed

[00:19:26] Pretty consistently

[00:19:28] And that was a way to cope

[00:19:30] For a while

[00:19:32] I mean I would wake and bake

[00:19:34] Like every day for years

[00:19:36] Which, you know, if anything could have been okay

[00:19:38] But after me and my ex broke up

[00:19:40] I started hanging out with some friends

[00:19:42] Who like we go to raves and do stuff

[00:19:44] So I started doing molly

[00:19:46] Or shrooms or acid

[00:19:48] And I was like, I'm going to go to those two years I would say

[00:19:50] 2023 was not really that

[00:19:52] I had my 20s in my late 20s

[00:19:54] My early 20s

[00:19:56] And it makes sense right?

[00:19:58] Because it's fun you feel good, you're with friends

[00:20:00] There's music, it's like the perfect recipe

[00:20:02] Exactly

[00:20:04] And it was

[00:20:06] I think I could have done it healthier

[00:20:08] But I did have a good time for the most part

[00:20:10] Alcohol's mixed in there too

[00:20:12] Yeah

[00:20:14] Mean having drinks would be like four on a night out

[00:20:16] So not really a big drinker

[00:20:18] I don't love it too much

[00:20:20] And I can't really drink now because I'm on depression meds

[00:20:22] Well when did you get them?

[00:20:24] After my attempt in November

[00:20:26] Okay

[00:20:28] So good segue

[00:20:30] Yeah

[00:20:32] You're doing the thing 2021

[00:20:34] 22 obviously things have opened up after COVID

[00:20:36] You're partying, you're hanging out

[00:20:38] And then so how do we get from there to November

[00:20:40] So after me and my ex broke up

[00:20:42] My brother and then my group of friends all moved

[00:20:44] We moved in together to my house

[00:20:46] And we're all living together there was five of us

[00:20:48] At one point and it was

[00:20:50] A little stressful but it was nice having everyone around

[00:20:52] Like I had my social group back

[00:20:54] And these were friends from high school

[00:20:56] We all stayed really close

[00:20:58] But over the last two years they've all been moving away

[00:21:00] Going somewhere else

[00:21:02] One of my friends is her husband's Chinese

[00:21:04] They moved back to China and had a baby

[00:21:06] One friend that was having health issues

[00:21:08] And the only possible

[00:21:10] Like it helped him without in Chicago

[00:21:12] So then it was just me and my brother

[00:21:14] We're close, we're very close siblings

[00:21:16] But I was not handling that well

[00:21:20] My dad's death was still really bothering me

[00:21:22] And I have to say like with my dad

[00:21:24] His whole thing like he was never really much in our life

[00:21:26] And I didn't really expect to

[00:21:28] Do what the grief and the way I did

[00:21:30] To have that much grief about it

[00:21:32] I mean he died in jail

[00:21:34] He was arrested for child born or was in jail

[00:21:36] And died in jail

[00:21:38] It was a lot that it was just a lot

[00:21:40] And I was in therapy at the time

[00:21:42] Like most of last year

[00:21:44] Even at that point, I wasn't letting anyone know how bad my depression was

[00:21:48] Even my therapist

[00:21:50] I work in the health field

[00:21:52] I know I have a friend one of my friends had attempted suicide in 2013

[00:21:54] And she got committed

[00:21:56] And like it freaked her out

[00:21:58] It's a murder for life in some ways

[00:22:00] Yeah right

[00:22:02] Something else we don't talk much about

[00:22:04] Yeah, it is not a good system

[00:22:06] Still are moving towards November

[00:22:08] I had a period of insomnia in September

[00:22:10] I ended up stopping smoking weed entirely

[00:22:12] Like I didn't sleep for four nights

[00:22:14] I was starting to hallucinate

[00:22:16] Yeah, and weed was making it all worse

[00:22:18] So I stopped smoking weed in October

[00:22:20] And I had a mental breakdown

[00:22:22] What do you mean?

[00:22:24] I was just like almost manic

[00:22:26] But it's not mania's and life is good

[00:22:28] I'm falling apart and collapsing

[00:22:30] Brother is aware

[00:22:32] Oh yeah, and he was dealing with the brunt of it

[00:22:34] How does he deal with that?

[00:22:36] He's like, I can't deal with you

[00:22:38] You need to go manage yourself

[00:22:40] Which is fair

[00:22:42] That's what he could do

[00:22:44] I mean he can communicate what he can

[00:22:46] He cannot do for me and that's fine

[00:22:48] Okay so October one of our friends from high school

[00:22:50] I mean we're all maintained our friendships

[00:22:52] For the last 10 years

[00:22:54] 11 years

[00:22:56] It was amazing

[00:22:58] Yeah, I'm very lucky in that instance

[00:23:00] Like I found my group of people and we stuck it out

[00:23:02] She was with us for two or three weeks

[00:23:04] And I was with the hospital for three months

[00:23:06] Oh, it's three months

[00:23:08] It was two months

[00:23:10] Starting in October

[00:23:12] She was having really complicated health issues

[00:23:14] And I was helping take care of her

[00:23:16] Like my mom was like the headperson

[00:23:18] But I would go to the hospital for five times a week

[00:23:22] Go see her

[00:23:24] Help her and watch her slowly decline

[00:23:26] Then my friend left

[00:23:28] From her trip

[00:23:30] And I had my group, my concert rave group come in

[00:23:32] To a show I read rocks and it was great

[00:23:34] I had a good time

[00:23:36] But then once everyone left

[00:23:38] And I was just like looking at the reality

[00:23:40] Of where things are at right now with my family

[00:23:42] And I was like I can't do this

[00:23:44] This was the day after the concert

[00:23:46] November 10

[00:23:48] What happens out there?

[00:23:50] I had just started my second job

[00:23:52] Got in there, did my training shift day

[00:23:54] Got home

[00:23:56] Started having like a panic attack

[00:23:58] Try to talk to my brother about it

[00:24:00] Talk to me through it

[00:24:02] Because he was having a rough day

[00:24:04] And I was just like okay

[00:24:06] So I went to my room and closed the door

[00:24:08] Took a knife up with me

[00:24:10] Cut my wrists and went to bed

[00:24:12] It's been pretty casual when you say it

[00:24:14] That's how it felt in the moment

[00:24:16] You really cut cut?

[00:24:18] Yeah, I have scars on there

[00:24:20] Yeah

[00:24:22] You hide them?

[00:24:24] Cones mostly

[00:24:26] So you took a knife

[00:24:28] And I was like okay

[00:24:30] I'm not going to cut that way

[00:24:32] I don't know

[00:24:34] That's just I don't know

[00:24:36] Yeah, did you

[00:24:38] Somehow fall asleep

[00:24:40] Yeah, I was like okay

[00:24:42] Well I was ready for bed anyway

[00:24:44] Yeah, okay I'll just cut my wrists

[00:24:46] I'll go to sleep and I won't wake up

[00:24:48] I woke up in the morning

[00:24:50] I had blood on my bed

[00:24:52] I had scabbed over in the night

[00:24:54] Because apparently I have high clock factors

[00:24:56] But the irony has a lot of them

[00:24:58] My brain wants to die

[00:25:00] But my body's like you're not doing that

[00:25:02] Yeah, like the absurdity in irony

[00:25:04] Yeah, so basically you

[00:25:06] Whether a high clock factor

[00:25:08] And you probably just didn't do it

[00:25:10] Whatever the word is

[00:25:12] Part enough deep enough right enough

[00:25:14] Something well you just didn't bleed out enough to die

[00:25:16] Okay, I think if you were bleeding out

[00:25:18] You would have woken up

[00:25:20] No, because your heart would slowly stop

[00:25:22] And then you just wouldn't wake up

[00:25:24] If you had to wake up wanting to have died

[00:25:26] I was disappointed

[00:25:28] To be honest

[00:25:30] But also like, oh fuck I gotta go back to work now

[00:25:32] Yeah, I feel like

[00:25:34] I myself up and go to work

[00:25:36] Day-to-day stuff

[00:25:38] Yep

[00:25:40] Because what else are you gonna do?

[00:25:42] Got bills to pay

[00:25:44] Still alive

[00:25:46] Go to work

[00:25:48] November

[00:25:50] Find the podcast not long after that

[00:25:52] The last story is like getting through it

[00:25:54] Surviving it you know

[00:25:56] Then I was on the other side of my head

[00:25:58] Survived

[00:26:00] Yeah as time goes on from November to now

[00:26:02] What other feelings that are saying

[00:26:04] The moment you said disappointment

[00:26:06] And I know words can be weird I get it

[00:26:08] As the time goes on

[00:26:10] And maybe, maybe

[00:26:12] Who knows, influenced by these stories

[00:26:14] That you heard but other stuff in your life

[00:26:16] Does that change that disappointment

[00:26:18] Does that morph into something else

[00:26:20] Things

[00:26:22] Yeah, it turned into shame

[00:26:24] And shame breeds in silence

[00:26:26] So it only gets worse if you don't talk about it

[00:26:28] So that means you were not no one knew

[00:26:30] No one knew

[00:26:32] Brother

[00:26:34] Hit the scars

[00:26:36] Not that anyone's looking but maybe if they saw them

[00:26:38] Don't tell your therapist

[00:26:40] I hadn't seen her in three months at that point

[00:26:42] Four months

[00:26:44] So she wouldn't have been available

[00:26:46] I had started seeing a psychologist though

[00:26:48] And I had a lot of the party phase

[00:26:50] I figured out oh I have ADHD

[00:26:52] Which explains a lot of certain behaviors

[00:26:54] I have like

[00:26:56] Just like the day to day struggle I have

[00:26:58] And like why certain things are hard for me

[00:27:00] So I got a diagnosis for that

[00:27:02] And got an adorol and my ADHD stuff got better

[00:27:04] And I did tell her about my depression

[00:27:06] And I'm not on my testosterone

[00:27:08] Because I can't afford to go to the doctor

[00:27:10] To get on my prescription

[00:27:12] But we had talked about getting on an HIV person

[00:27:14] In that first session

[00:27:16] And I was like no we're going to start getting on an antichruscant

[00:27:18] I had told her about what happened

[00:27:20] She goes you should have called me

[00:27:22] I was like I know

[00:27:24] But I didn't want to

[00:27:26] You wanted to die

[00:27:28] I wanted to die

[00:27:30] But she you know we figured out a plan

[00:27:32] In case I get like that again

[00:27:34] Got me on medication

[00:27:36] And the medication's been alright

[00:27:38] I mean it has its side effects

[00:27:40] But for the most part the suicidal ideation

[00:27:42] Doesn't really stick anymore

[00:27:44] So it's gotten better in some ways

[00:27:45] And I've gotten better

[00:27:47] But the emotionality of what happened

[00:27:49] Didn't really hit me

[00:27:51] Until the end of January

[00:27:53] Because I'm still helping take care of my grade

[00:27:55] And I'm working

[00:27:57] I am talking with my friends

[00:27:59] And doing all this other stuff

[00:28:01] I try to tell my mom about it at one point

[00:28:03] Like after it happened and she goes

[00:28:05] I can't help you right now

[00:28:07] Because I was just like hey mom

[00:28:09] I don't think I'm doing well

[00:28:11] And she's like

[00:28:13] She's like in January

[00:28:15] Not to make it about this podcast for me

[00:28:17] Truly but does that impact

[00:28:19] Actually because that's about when you reached out

[00:28:21] If I remember maybe it was a little later

[00:28:23] Is that all related or is that just coincidence

[00:28:25] I think it was me wanting to reach out

[00:28:27] And talk about it

[00:28:29] Well someone not in my family

[00:28:31] And someone not you know emotionally invested

[00:28:33] And me being wise

[00:28:35] And about that time

[00:28:37] Like that's when I told my mom

[00:28:39] It was a lot of like grief almost

[00:28:41] Because my great aunt was better now

[00:28:43] So she's healthier

[00:28:45] I don't have to worry about her as much

[00:28:47] My mom is less worried about it

[00:28:49] Things have gone sorted out

[00:28:51] So the stress isn't so

[00:28:53] And now it's coming

[00:28:55] And I'm sure that doesn't just mean talking to me

[00:28:57] I'm sure it's coming out in myriad ways

[00:28:59] Oh yeah

[00:29:01] I mean crying like I wasn't able to cry for like two months

[00:29:03] Three months

[00:29:05] So it's just like it's all coming out all at once

[00:29:07] And like it's freaking my family out

[00:29:09] And I'm just like either smoke weed or drink

[00:29:11] And I'm like I can't do that

[00:29:13] And just shut it down

[00:29:15] I have to like work on this head on

[00:29:17] What does that look like?

[00:29:19] I mean I get it

[00:29:21] But what does that mean?

[00:29:23] I'm looking at doing outpatient therapy

[00:29:25] Like intensive outpatient therapy

[00:29:27] In an addiction program because my dad's an alcoholic

[00:29:29] It runs in my family

[00:29:31] I have that kind of personality type

[00:29:33] So my eyes will work on it before

[00:29:35] It becomes a true addiction where I'm like

[00:29:37] Going to work drunk, waking up, drinking, doing heart drugs

[00:29:38] Trying to be proactive about it

[00:29:40] That's very cool

[00:29:42] Thanks

[00:29:44] So I got two appointments like well if I'm going to be alive

[00:29:46] I'm as well enjoying my life and do what I want to do

[00:29:48] And to do that I need to be healthy

[00:29:50] I can't just be surviving

[00:29:52] I want to actually reach a point where I'm thriving

[00:29:54] Do you have a goal in mind like have you said a date

[00:29:56] You're like it'd be cool if I reached that point

[00:29:58] Kind of within

[00:30:00] Experative type

[00:30:02] Five years

[00:30:04] New patient

[00:30:06] In the past five years

[00:30:08] I've been studying in the US for a long time

[00:30:10] I've been studying in the US for a long time

[00:30:12] I've been studying in the US for a long time

[00:30:14] And it's not five years and then I'm going to be better

[00:30:16] It's five years and then I'm going to

[00:30:18] My plan is to move to Japan

[00:30:20] Because the US is like god damn shit show

[00:30:22] I don't disagree but why Japan

[00:30:24] And not Cambodia or Argentina

[00:30:26] I've been studying Japanese since I was in middle school

[00:30:28] I'm not as proficient as I would like to be

[00:30:30] But I have a decent grasp on it

[00:30:32] So if I get somewhere

[00:30:34] And I'm not as inspected

[00:30:36] Not diagnosed but

[00:30:38] A very effective self-assessment

[00:30:40] I can't have a diagnosis if I'm going to go to Japan

[00:30:42] They won't let you become a citizen if you do

[00:30:44] That's a whole other podcast

[00:30:46] You can become a resident

[00:30:48] A citizen

[00:30:50] A residency is still limited on medical history and things like that

[00:30:52] Pretty sure

[00:30:54] They don't want you to be a burden on the society

[00:30:56] Right, okay, okay

[00:30:58] That is actually right

[00:31:00] That seems to come up a lot with other stuff

[00:31:02] So you know what city you might go to

[00:31:04] I'm looking at the countryside

[00:31:06] I don't really want to go to a big city

[00:31:08] Like Yokohama would be cool

[00:31:10] I'm looking all over the country

[00:31:12] I'm thinking more southern because I want to be somewhere warm

[00:31:14] And here's the other problem I have

[00:31:16] I don't observe dietary vitamin D

[00:31:18] So winter is fucking brutal

[00:31:20] I have no vitamin D

[00:31:22] I have to get injections just to get it in my body

[00:31:24] Wow, you got to get in the fucking sun

[00:31:26] I got to get in the sun

[00:31:28] Any consistent sun where I'm not losing it for half the year

[00:31:30] And where I'm on the sun screen

[00:31:32] And where I'm on the sun screen

[00:31:34] Because you're bald

[00:31:36] But you're bald by choice, that's different than me

[00:31:38] No no, well it's not fully bald

[00:31:40] But it's definitely going

[00:31:42] You can see the top of my head when I have my hair out

[00:31:44] Kind of cardio, right?

[00:31:46] That's Subaru

[00:31:48] Or since it's Subaru

[00:31:50] Japanese, right?

[00:31:52] That too

[00:31:54] She's at 160,000 miles

[00:31:56] Payed off

[00:31:58] Teaching English, I was mostly

[00:32:00] And technically I was in Yokohama

[00:32:02] Though I wasn't in the city I was really between Yokohama and Tokyo and Kawasaki

[00:32:06] Okay

[00:32:08] The train system is so good there

[00:32:10] It was like 20 minutes to Tokyo flying it

[00:32:12] Right, I'm like the public transit is so good

[00:32:14] It doesn't really matter where you live

[00:32:16] Even if I need a card to just get to the train station

[00:32:18] That's not bad, but most of the time you can just walk there

[00:32:20] Or not to know in the Maiwa

[00:32:22] Nandeska

[00:32:24] Bookless death in this

[00:32:26] I'm on the spot y'all

[00:32:28] I asked him what his name was, by the way

[00:32:30] Do you know what the word for suicide is in Japanese?

[00:32:34] I don't. What's funny is when I'm learning Japanese

[00:32:36] I'm a much cheerier person

[00:32:38] I've heard that when you learn another language

[00:32:40] You have a different personality for that language

[00:32:42] Right, that's fascinating

[00:32:44] More poetic, I love Japanese as a language

[00:32:46] Japan's economy unique in its way

[00:32:50] At least historically as far as I know

[00:32:52] With its way of looking at suicide

[00:32:54] There are circles there that honor

[00:32:56] Honor it in a way that I've rarely seen

[00:32:58] It's a very different perspective than in the west

[00:33:00] No, it might be like an old concept there

[00:33:02] It's not kind of maybe falling out of favor

[00:33:04] But it's culturally important

[00:33:06] Even if they don't want to talk about it all the time

[00:33:08] Like it's had a different cultural weight than it does in Europe or America

[00:33:12] I mean you could have taken the knife and not done it on your wrist

[00:33:14] You could have gone old school Japanese to

[00:33:16] I'm going to write in the gut

[00:33:18] But you wouldn't need it a bigger knife

[00:33:20] And that would be pretty painful

[00:33:22] I can't imagine how fucking people that would be

[00:33:24] I wouldn't really want to disembowel myself

[00:33:26] How many people did you tell if any that you are talking with me today?

[00:33:30] Great

[00:33:32] My psychologist, my brother and my mom

[00:33:34] Encouraging?

[00:33:36] Yeah, yeah, they're supportive

[00:33:38] I mean they're supportive

[00:33:40] They think really whatever I need to feel good about where I'm at

[00:33:42] Do it

[00:33:44] You're dressed up, is that because you're going to work

[00:33:46] You wanted to impress because nobody's going to see this Stefan

[00:33:48] No, I'm going to work after this

[00:33:50] You never went to a hospital

[00:33:52] No, but you're considering outpatient

[00:33:54] Correct

[00:33:56] I've had a couple interviews with different places

[00:33:58] Because I'm not actively suicidal or going to hurt someone else

[00:34:02] I don't qualify for inpatient technically

[00:34:04] The one place I did go to

[00:34:06] To like have an in-person assessment

[00:34:08] It's a lock and facility

[00:34:10] I don't really want that

[00:34:12] The place I would like to go is inpatient

[00:34:14] It's a month long but it's $24,000

[00:34:16] So I'm actually working to get insurance right now

[00:34:18] So I can at least do the outpatient

[00:34:20] Ironic in a way because we were talking earlier about going without

[00:34:24] Yeah, how many people know that you try in November

[00:34:28] People?

[00:34:29] Eight people

[00:34:30] So you trust eight people enough to tell them

[00:34:32] Yeah, anybody say anything that was less than ideal so to speak

[00:34:36] Not great?

[00:34:37] No, I'm pretty lucky all my friends were very supportive

[00:34:40] If anything they're upset I didn't talk to them sooner

[00:34:43] Good friends

[00:34:44] I have good friends, I have the best friends

[00:34:46] I love them, they're great

[00:34:48] That's a struggle and it's self-justifying those kinds of people

[00:34:50] For sure

[00:34:51] Well that said do you wish ever

[00:34:53] Maybe it's as we're talking

[00:34:55] I have a sense of what the answer is but I'm often wrong

[00:34:58] That day, November turned out differently

[00:35:00] I knew it asked

[00:35:02] Damn, I can't trick anybody anymore

[00:35:05] There's too many damn episodes out

[00:35:07] Even if they're in therapy they're gonna ask you

[00:35:09] Yeah

[00:35:10] I feel like a therapist would

[00:35:11] They would ask you are you thinking about it

[00:35:13] Or they would ask do you wish you did turned out differently

[00:35:16] I don't know

[00:35:17] Some days yes when it's really hard to deal with the emotional side of things

[00:35:21] But right now no, I don't wish it

[00:35:23] They had turned out differently

[00:35:25] Okay

[00:35:26] When you say there's a five-year plan and then you're going to Japan

[00:35:29] That tells me what I hear is

[00:35:31] I'm not gonna try again

[00:35:33] Yeah, I don't have an urge to

[00:35:34] Not right now

[00:35:35] I got it

[00:35:36] Should changes

[00:35:37] I don't have any urge or desire to really try

[00:35:41] Currently, a lot of that I think is the medication is helping

[00:35:44] But coming that close to it and then

[00:35:47] Working my way out of it has given me some insights

[00:35:50] More to come probably too

[00:35:52] Yeah, definitely

[00:35:53] What helps if anything when you're really feeling shitty?

[00:35:57] Honestly being around people

[00:35:58] Because it gets me out of my head

[00:36:00] Music, like live music helps me so much

[00:36:03] I went and saw a concert

[00:36:04] I started dating a guy in December

[00:36:06] And it gently

[00:36:07] And he knows what happened

[00:36:08] I was wearing a front one with him

[00:36:10] I mean, like extremely supportive of him

[00:36:12] Right now I'm kind of a mess

[00:36:13] So I can't give you as much of me as I would like

[00:36:16] But I want to get to a better place

[00:36:18] But we went to a concert together and it was honestly amazing

[00:36:21] What kind of music?

[00:36:22] It was

[00:36:23] So the artist is Queen Herbie

[00:36:24] Like I like all kinds of different music

[00:36:26] But I love live like E-M

[00:36:28] Because I like to dance

[00:36:29] Makes sense?

[00:36:30] Yeah

[00:36:31] Big ball dude dancing

[00:36:33] What's better than that?

[00:36:34] Oh yeah

[00:36:35] I'm not

[00:36:36] Making out with the dude on the dance floor is fucking great

[00:36:39] Yeah, you've heard some of the recent podcasts I imagine

[00:36:43] Yeah

[00:36:44] So you know about the Pink and Purple Pill

[00:36:46] So that is for our listeners

[00:36:48] Because sometimes they're like first-timers

[00:36:50] Give Stefan a pill

[00:36:52] He gently goes to sleep

[00:36:54] He doesn't wake up

[00:36:55] And nobody knows it's a suicide

[00:36:56] They just think he died

[00:36:57] Would you take it?

[00:36:58] Save it

[00:37:00] Or just throw it out

[00:37:01] Right now, save it

[00:37:02] I'm putting in a little satchel

[00:37:04] In a box somewhere

[00:37:05] In case I need it

[00:37:06] Could be in Japan

[00:37:07] Could be in the state

[00:37:08] You might go else?

[00:37:09] We don't know

[00:37:10] Who knows

[00:37:11] You might live to 104 years old

[00:37:13] I don't know

[00:37:14] You know, I'm writing that right now

[00:37:15] Where it's like

[00:37:16] I don't know what life is going to hold

[00:37:17] It could be better or worse

[00:37:19] But I'm actually okay with seeing how that turns out

[00:37:21] I think this is my final question

[00:37:23] Then of course you can add anything

[00:37:24] Anything else you want

[00:37:25] Are there anything

[00:37:26] Particularly anything

[00:37:27] Any myths or misconceptions

[00:37:29] I know you knew this was coming

[00:37:31] But particularly those that haven't already sort of come up

[00:37:33] In the conversation as they tend to do

[00:37:35] I think the big one

[00:37:36] Again, my personal experience

[00:37:38] Depression is painful

[00:37:39] It's emotionally painful

[00:37:40] At least to my experience and my time with it

[00:37:43] Because you want to be alive

[00:37:44] And part of everything else

[00:37:45] But you can't

[00:37:46] And I think a lot of people don't understand

[00:37:47] It's like, oh not just sad

[00:37:49] It's that my brain wants to be dead

[00:37:51] But I can't

[00:37:52] I think a lot of people

[00:37:53] At least if they're coming here

[00:37:54] Hopefully have a better idea

[00:37:55] Of what depression is

[00:37:56] It's like being trapped in your own

[00:37:58] Like emotional body

[00:37:59] Yeah

[00:38:00] Yeah

[00:38:01] Yeah, I mean nothing that other people haven't said

[00:38:02] I don't think suicide is necessarily selfish

[00:38:05] Because you're not thinking, oh well

[00:38:07] I'll just end this for me

[00:38:08] And no one else will be affected

[00:38:09] It's like you know

[00:38:10] You know it's going to affect other people

[00:38:12] Yeah, of course

[00:38:13] I would imagine most if not all

[00:38:15] Sure

[00:38:16] But you'd think your block of presence will give them relief

[00:38:19] At least in my case

[00:38:20] I actually do have one more question

[00:38:21] Do you think people who try to end their lives are

[00:38:24] By definition mentally ill

[00:38:26] I used to think yes

[00:38:28] But I don't

[00:38:29] Now I have mental illness

[00:38:31] I don't think everyone who wants to die

[00:38:33] Or wants to end their life is mentally ill

[00:38:35] I think sometimes especially depending on your circumstances

[00:38:38] It just seems like a better option than continuing to suffer

[00:38:41] In America at least

[00:38:43] Or at least countries

[00:38:44] Who come from a lot of like religious backgrounds

[00:38:47] And really put a lot of importance on suffering

[00:38:50] And the nobility of suffering

[00:38:52] Which I think is just inhumane

[00:38:54] You're not supposed to suffer all the time

[00:38:56] It doesn't make you a better person

[00:38:58] It doesn't make your life more meaningful than suffering

[00:39:01] A lot of people making a lot of money off of people suffering

[00:39:04] I mean a lot

[00:39:06] I think part of it too is just capitalist occult group

[00:39:09] Here's a product I'm going to sell it to you

[00:39:11] And the product is you will be okay

[00:39:13] It's the transactional nature we've made also

[00:39:15] That's part of it all

[00:39:16] It's like everything's

[00:39:17] Not everything

[00:39:18] I'm hyping a little

[00:39:19] Hyprobolic

[00:39:20] But more and more

[00:39:22] It just has that feel

[00:39:24] It does feel that way

[00:39:25] Again

[00:39:26] I would love to go to the inpatient therapy

[00:39:28] $24,000

[00:39:29] To be better and healthier and whole

[00:39:32] As a price tag

[00:39:33] It's easier being rich

[00:39:35] It's easier being rich

[00:39:36] Like just let's say

[00:39:38] It is

[00:39:39] It might be suicidal

[00:39:40] Many things are easier

[00:39:42] You have more access

[00:39:44] You also have more cushion

[00:39:47] Which maybe is the same thing

[00:39:49] If x, y and z happen

[00:39:51] Major depressive episode can't get out of bed for three weeks

[00:39:54] You have money

[00:39:56] I'd be able to have somebody who can help you

[00:39:58] And you can pay them to bow by your food

[00:40:01] Whatever the details are

[00:40:03] That was a great example

[00:40:04] But it's different

[00:40:05] It's different

[00:40:06] You can pay your way out of the things

[00:40:08] That everyone else has to struggle for

[00:40:10] To just survive

[00:40:12] You just survive

[00:40:13] And that might not be enough

[00:40:14] But you have some of that

[00:40:17] So if you're wealthy in listening

[00:40:18] You might not want to ever talk to me

[00:40:19] I hope you do

[00:40:20] I want shit on you for being wealthy

[00:40:22] And all

[00:40:24] Maybe you'll have some insights

[00:40:26] Pointing out yeah, yeah

[00:40:27] Maybe they'll have some insights

[00:40:28] That I'm completely unaware of

[00:40:29] I mean I'm not rich

[00:40:30] So I don't know shit

[00:40:31] But you know I know some wealthy people

[00:40:33] Anyway that's just an observation

[00:40:35] And I do think a lot of it is around capitalism

[00:40:38] Maybe

[00:40:39] Yeah

[00:40:40] It's hard when it's so tied into every other part of our system

[00:40:44] Yeah

[00:40:45] I think unfortunately it is part of it

[00:40:47] It seeps into everything

[00:40:49] And then people will be like

[00:40:50] Well you know what do you want us to be like

[00:40:52] Communist got em

[00:40:54] Well if we have only those two choices

[00:40:56] Like I think we can

[00:40:57] It's not black and white

[00:40:58] Right

[00:40:59] It's all a cart

[00:41:00] Get what you want

[00:41:01] You know

[00:41:02] How often do you shave your head?

[00:41:04] Hmm once twice a week

[00:41:05] Bamie too

[00:41:06] Okay

[00:41:07] But you groom your beard right

[00:41:09] Oh yeah

[00:41:10] Every day I make my own beer bomb, beer oil

[00:41:13] Sounds complicated

[00:41:14] Anyway I do have a little beard envy

[00:41:16] Happening right now

[00:41:17] Damn man

[00:41:18] Everything's so goddamn complicated

[00:41:20] At least that's I just want things to be easy stuff

[00:41:22] I keep saying the same thing man

[00:41:24] I don't think life is that easy

[00:41:28] Yeah no I think I'm finally learning that

[00:41:31] And it took a long time

[00:41:33] What else my friend would you like to share?

[00:41:36] I don't really know

[00:41:37] We've talked about a lot

[00:41:38] We have

[00:41:39] I think for people who are going through this shit

[00:41:41] Like reach out to the people who care about you

[00:41:43] They're not just saying it to be nice

[00:41:45] In some ways the only thing we got in this life is each other

[00:41:49] In our human connection

[00:41:50] Yeah

[00:41:51] Really people need to foster it

[00:41:53] Profound wisdom

[00:41:55] Live from Denver

[00:41:57] Within a Subaru

[00:41:59] Worldcoat

[00:42:00] Worldcoat

[00:42:01] Green shirt bald man big beard

[00:42:03] Heading to work soon

[00:42:04] Thanks man

[00:42:05] I really know

[00:42:06] I sincerely appreciate you listening

[00:42:08] And then reaching out

[00:42:09] And we're talking

[00:42:10] And I have no doubt it helps people

[00:42:12] Which is just that's what it's for

[00:42:14] That's why I wanted to do it

[00:42:15] And thanks for hosting

[00:42:16] I mean like this is

[00:42:17] I was nervous going in

[00:42:18] But like you're really approachable

[00:42:20] And very friendly

[00:42:21] Oh man

[00:42:22] You should see me when I'm not doing it

[00:42:24] This is like a great performance

[00:42:26] But it's real

[00:42:27] You know we have different masks

[00:42:28] Different version

[00:42:29] No I'm okay

[00:42:30] Thank you

[00:42:31] I do try

[00:42:32] I think with the topic

[00:42:33] Your approach is very amenable

[00:42:35] It feels real

[00:42:36] It doesn't feel like I'm under my microscope trying to be fixed

[00:42:40] Just witnessed

[00:42:41] Which is huge

[00:42:42] Not small

[00:42:43] And I suck at fixing shit anyway

[00:42:45] So why bother

[00:42:46] I just can't do it

[00:42:47] But it turns out to be a good thing on this podcast

[00:42:49] It's not my jam

[00:42:50] I think so

[00:42:51] I think you found a good niche

[00:42:52] And I really appreciate the work you do

[00:42:54] It's been helpful

[00:42:55] I hope your day is decent

[00:42:57] Or maybe even like a little more than that

[00:42:59] I think it's gonna be a good day

[00:43:01] I hope you have a good day

[00:43:02] And find someone to be happy about Sean

[00:43:03] Thanks bud

[00:43:04] I appreciate it

[00:43:06] Alright get outta here bald man

[00:43:08] Thanks again for talking

[00:43:09] Yeah, thank you so much

[00:43:10] You have a good day

[00:43:11] Take care my mom

[00:43:12] Bye bye

[00:43:13] Ciao

[00:43:14] As always thanks so much for listening

[00:43:17] And all of your support

[00:43:18] Special thanks to Stefan in Colorado

[00:43:20] Thanks Stefan

[00:43:21] If you are a suicide attempt survivor

[00:43:22] And you like to talk please reach out

[00:43:24] Hello at suicidenoted.com

[00:43:26] On Facebook or Twitter

[00:43:27] SlashXat

[00:43:28] Suicide

[00:43:29] Noted

[00:43:30] And that is all for episode number 206

[00:43:33] Stay strong

[00:43:34] Do the best you can

[00:43:36] I'll talk to you soon

[00:43:41] Bye bye

[00:44:11] Bye bye