Lucy in England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[00:00:00] When I was with him, I thought, right, you're going to be with me through this when I do have to go through it. And he's like, yeah, yeah, of course. Now I haven't got him. When it comes to this, I've decided that no, if this is my way that I'm going to go, I don't want any treatment.

[00:00:37] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors and ideators so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people, millions, many millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough. And when we do talk about it, when we engage with people in pain, undoubtedly you have people like that in your life and you may be one of them yourself.

[00:01:03] Most of us are quite bad at it. And there are reasons for that, valid reasons sometimes, but nonetheless, it is a problem. So one of the goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with survivors in large part to help more people in more places, hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone. Hashtag that. Now, if you are an attempt survivor or ideator and you'd like to talk, please reach out. Hello at suicidenoted.com. I'll get back to you and I'd love to speak with you.

[00:01:30] Whether you are a first time listener or a long time listener or somewhere in between, I want to thank you very much for your support, your feedback, your attention. It means a lot. Please know that there are Thursday episodes as well. Sometimes they're from the tour, sometimes they're update episodes, sometimes they're special episodes. And I will continue doing that for probably many months moving forward. So most likely two episodes per week. I suppose the best way to know is to subscribe if you have not already.

[00:01:58] We also have that weekly poll on Spotify. And hey, if you could do us a favor, rate us on Apple if you listen there and five stars only if you think we deserve it. And I think we do. Finally, we're talking about suicide here on this podcast, as we always do. My guests and I do not hold back. That's part of the reason the podcast exists. But please take that into account before you listen or as you listen. But I do hope you listen because there's so much to learn. Today I am talking with Lucy.

[00:02:24] Lucy lives in England and she is a suicide attempt survivor. Lucy, hello. Hello. Yeah, nice to see you. It's a little weird, isn't it? Because if you've heard the podcast, you know me more than I know you, kind of. Yeah. Are you in a, where are you, Lucy? I am in my bedroom. Oh, no, no. I mean, okay. But I mean, like what part of the world?

[00:02:51] I'm in Essex in England. Yeah. What, I got to ask like a dumb American question. What football team do you support, if any, if any? I don't really. I mean, I'll go with what my boys support, Liverpool. You've heard the podcast. I have. And we're talking. Yeah. And I thank you for that. Oh, well, thank you because I haven't really told anyone about all of this in depth. So I think it's going to be good for me, yeah.

[00:03:21] Why haven't you told anyone before now? So friends and family know parts of it, but they don't know exactly what happened. So, because I think I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed by it. This is like a good teaser for the audience because we're like, embarrassed by what exactly? I mean, we don't know all the details yet. It's like, oh, hang on audience. We're going to get there. Lucy's going to share some stuff with us about her life and what she's gone through.

[00:03:47] Yeah. I wonder how many, that kind of embarrassment, how many people, that must stop so many people from sharing. I think shame as well. I think slightly different, isn't it? Being embarrassed and feeling ashamed of what I tried to do. Yeah. I'm sure that there's a difference in those words. Shame feels stronger, but they both kind of sucked. Yeah, they do. Yeah.

[00:04:10] Despite the shame and or embarrassment or whatever else, you felt comfortable enough to trust me and join me and show up and talk. So thanks. I'm going to ask you how you found the podcast, but first I want to know kind of what it was, and this isn't me looking for any sort of validation at all, but like what it was about hearing me or the guests or the conversations, parts of these episodes that compelled you to reach out because I feel it's a pretty big step.

[00:04:36] Just listening to several of your podcasts, I felt that a lot of the people that you were talking to, their attempts had been maybe quite a long time ago in their life. Some? Some of them. Some of the ones I'd listened to anyway. And mine is really recent, as in like five months ago. I don't know. I just thought I wanted to share my story of how things are for me still quite early on.

[00:05:05] Into all of this. Do you remember about how long ago you stumbled upon this podcast? Probably about, oh, six weeks ago. Yeah, I was looking for something. I wanted to hear about other people's stories. I've been and bought books about people's journeys after suicide attempts. I found that since this all happened and I had a traumatic breakup,

[00:05:33] I haven't been able to listen to music in the car and I drive quite a bit with my job. I needed to have something on because silence wasn't any good for me either. So my daughter said, mum, why don't you try, try some podcasts? They're really good. You know, they're on so many different topics.

[00:05:51] So I searched for suicide and obviously your podcast came up and I thought, wow, there is actually people out there that want to talk about it. And yeah, and then I've just been listening. Yeah. And I thought, yeah, I'd like to, I'd like to share my story. Cool. Yeah. Thanks daughter. Yeah, exactly. We're going to come, we're going to talk about your life a little bit, of course, including the attempt. I'm just curious now, kind of, do you at this point listen to music right now?

[00:06:20] No, I can't, I can't bear it. I don't know. I feel like I associate music generally with like feel good. I don't want to feel good. So, and I don't feel good. Oh, I think this is centering so, such an important thing that you're saying and it comes up from time to time, but you're, you're articulated it so simply and clearly is I don't want to feel good. No. I want to not feel good now. Yeah.

[00:06:45] Maybe one day, maybe not. We don't know, but like stop with the, cause I, and it might be more of an American thing. I don't know, but this constant feel good. Yeah. I can't bear it. It's awful. What, I'm curious to know what else you can't bear that takes you out of the space that you actually kind of want to be in right now. Like things on TV. I can't watch, obviously because of the breakout, but I can't watch couples. I can't watch anything lovey-dovey. I don't want anything to do with that.

[00:07:11] This is going to make me sound completely nut, but like if someone is really happy on TV, I'm like, just piss off. I don't want to see you. I don't want to see your face. To our, to our listeners in other areas of the world, piss off means fuck off or. Basically. I didn't know if I could say that. Usually what piss off is maybe it's a little softer.

[00:07:32] Yeah. And also I've noticed that if I'm seeing people equally crying on TV, I have no sympathy. I'm like, get a grit. What actually have you got to cry about? I'm not a doctor. I'm not diagnosing, but you are like in this space between several things where it's like just existing. Yeah. I'm just literally just being, that's it. Day to day. Do you have three children? Yeah. How old are they? You don't have to share if you don't want to.

[00:07:59] No, they're all grown up. My daughter's 27. My sons are 24 and 19. Do any or all of them see a difference in mother? I don't know if they know. They know what I've gone through. I've told them about the attempts. I left it a while, but I felt like they should know. They're all really on board with me doing this today. They think it's great. Oh, you told them that you are doing, and you're specifically talking about your suicide attempts? Yeah.

[00:08:29] And all of them, you raise some good kids. Yeah. They're all very level-headed, brilliant kids, and they are so on board with this for me. They're like, Mom, this is such a good thing for you to do. Lucy's kids, good job. I think it's safe to say, though I want to be careful, a middle-aged woman. I'm 47. So you're a 47-year-old woman living in Essex, England, which is part of the United Kingdom. That's correct, yes.

[00:08:56] Three children, five months ago, more or less, you had a breakup. Yes. Up until that time, several decades. Yes. Have you thought about suicide? No, never. Not a blimp? I've suffered with depression through my life because of various things that have gone on, but I've never ever thought or actioned anything to do with actually killing myself. What were your thoughts? This is going to be hard because we're going back some time.

[00:09:23] It would, at least for me, be really hard to be very honest about, were it to be true. That wasn't a clearly framed question, so let me just ask the question. Have you lost anybody to suicide or have you known people close to you that have tried to end their lives? No. When you ever thought about suicide, or we can even imagine Lucy 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago, hearing about someone killing themselves, you know how you were just talking about that gut instinct of when you see people who are really happy

[00:09:50] or really, really lovey-dovey and there's that gut feeling. What was your gut feeling back then when you heard about people ending their lives? I felt really sad that it had got to that point for them and no one had helped them before it got to that stage. I feel like I could sympathize because of the depression that I've had on and off throughout my life. I've always felt sympathy for people that have ended their life that way. I know not everybody feels that way.

[00:10:19] For example, when my sister, elder sister, found out what I'd done, she called me selfish. You've learned the hard way. Yeah. Yeah. So I know that people obviously have different thoughts about it, but I've always been on the sympathetic side. Well, when you talk about depression throughout your life, that started at an early age? Well, when I was 10, my mom was diagnosed with cancer.

[00:10:48] From my age of 10 to 18, she was very poorly on and off having treatment. And when I was 18, she died. And from that point, I was on antidepressants and I still am. Presumably you're doing something positive where you wouldn't be on them. Yeah. I mean, I've been on, tried several different types. I think they helped get me through. Obviously, when I had the children and I was obviously pregnant, I didn't take them.

[00:11:18] At that point, I think there wasn't much information about whether it was safe to take them or not. And so I didn't. But with all three children, I did have postnatal depression afterwards. You have presumably some predisposed, depressive tendencies. Yeah. Not everybody does. Those are people I also don't like. Fuck them. Yeah. But you never thought about suicide until five months ago.

[00:11:47] That's probably something you've thought about. It's probably something you've at least internally told yourself over and over again. Where does that part of the story start? Obviously, you meet somebody at some point in your life. So you want to start it there? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I can explain a little bit before that. So my kids all have the same dad. I was married to him for 10 years. Actually, when my mom died, I was pregnant with my daughter. So that was really, really hard.

[00:12:15] My husband at the time was, you know, he was a good man. And he was 10 years older than me. And we split really because I think I'd outgrown him a little bit because of the age difference. Maybe I just hadn't done as much with my life. We had an amicable divorce. I then met another guy who was complete opposite to my husband, my ex-husband, and quite volatile.

[00:12:46] Was with him five years. And we had lots of ups and downs. And with him, I did actually self-harm. And that's the first time I'd ever done that. And you would have been like in your 30s? I was, yeah, early 30s. But I never told anyone about that. Once we had split up, that stopped. I didn't feel the need to do that anymore. And then I was on my own for a bit. Lived on my own with the kids. Their dad didn't live far away.

[00:13:15] Lived up the road. He was single. I met somebody. My job is that I'm a speech therapist. Oh, cool. I work with adults who have had strokes and they've got motor neuron disease, etc. And I was working in the hospital at the time. The guy I met was actually a patient's brother. Yeah, we fell in love really quickly. I can now, looking back, there were red flags. There was love bombing.

[00:13:43] There was all of that, none of which I knew anything about, if I'm honest. Oh, yeah. Hindsight is hindsight, right? Wow. Yeah. It's an amazing thing. Anyway, the relationship moved really quickly. He proposed to me. We went to New York. He proposed to me on the Brooklyn Bridge. Hold up. Hold up. You know where I'm from? New York. I am from New York now. I wasn't living or born on the Brooklyn Bridge.

[00:14:09] But this romantic love bomber chose to take you to, I won't call it my city, but I will here. Proposed to you on the Brooklyn Bridge? Yeah. Got down on one knee on the Brooklyn Bridge? Yeah, he did. On the bridge or on the Brooklyn side, the Manhattan side, or like in the middle? In the middle. Goddamn. And that was eight, nine months after we met. Nine months? Okay. I mean, for some people, that's quick. For some people, it's not fast. I mean, but it felt right.

[00:14:35] I didn't, I wasn't expecting to do that at all, but it did feel right. When was that? That was 2023. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. So you were single for a while. Yeah. I mean, I had other relationships, but nothing. Nothing that was substantial that you brought up here. So obviously it was something more casual. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So 2023, you say yes. Yeah. Diamond? Yeah, a small one. Okay. It's fine.

[00:15:06] It's not a deal. I hope that wasn't a deal breaker. It wasn't. I know because I kind of have an idea of where this is heading, but I don't know the details and I'm looking forward to hearing them. So what happens after the bridge? We didn't live together at the time. He wanted to move closer to where I was living. He put quite a lot of pressure on me to move in with him quite soon. So I said, yes, okay.

[00:15:30] But he couldn't afford a big enough place so my boys could come with me. So my daughter at that point has her partner and they've moved out. They've got their own house. So it's just my boys. My fiance had a son of his own and he was to live with us, but there was no room for my boys. Looking back, when you mentioned things like red flags, would that have been a red flag? Yeah. Okay.

[00:15:59] I think hindsight is 20-20. Like, oh, wow. Okay. But when you're in it, Lucy, you know. I know. And I, yeah, when you're in it, you think they're the love of your life. I didn't want to let him go. And I feel silly about it now. I moved in with him and his son. My boys live with their dad. Time kind of went on a little. Cracks started to show. His son doesn't like me.

[00:16:26] He thinks I'm taking his dad away from him. He's 19. You know, he's a big boy, but it was very difficult. And we were living in quite a small, small place. But still, you know, I wanted to make it work. You know, I put a lot into this. I wanted to make it work. I loved him. You know, he apparently did love me at the time. But he was very, he would get very cross about things.

[00:16:54] I would be walking on eggshells a lot. I started self-harming again. I was going to ask you about that. Yeah. Cutting. Yeah. I started again quite badly. Did your partner know about that? He did. And he looked at me like I was a piece of filth on the floor. He absolutely was disgusted by it. At this point, because I know where this is leading, we know what this podcast is about. This point, if you can recall, it's a year ago, two years ago,

[00:17:24] while this is happening. Do you tell anybody in your life about what's going on? A couple of friends, very close friends who are colleagues as well. So we all work for the NHS, very tight-knit team. And I did tell them that, actually, I'm lying. I didn't tell them about the self-harming. I told them how bad things were at home. So they have an idea that things are not paradise at home. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:50] He, I felt like he lost respect for me once he found out I did that. But for me, it was a way of just trying to release some emotion. Frustration. Huge frustration for trying to really do my best at living with a teenage boy that wasn't my own. Living with a guy who works in the police, works for the domestic violence team.

[00:18:19] We would say here he's a cop. He's a cop, yeah. And his, and specifically in domestic violence. Yeah. Yeah. What happened to me was mental, mental abuse rather than physical. Yeah. In some ways, I wish he would have just hit me because it would have been better. Cop or not, this is your guy. You're living together. Things are not going well. He has his job. You have your job. There's a kid in the house. The kid doesn't like you so much. You're cutting.

[00:18:48] Mostly it's on the down low and you're not talking too much about it. Yeah. And so this is all leading up to 2025, right? Five. Yeah. Yeah. Things kept coming up. We started having arguments. They were always over his son. Always. And he felt very stuck in the middle and he would never stick up for me. And I almost felt quite bullied by both of them living in that house.

[00:19:18] I felt quite ganged up on a little. He tried to end it with me a couple of times. Yeah. He was like, I can't go on like this any longer. He did say, oh, it's ruining your mental health, which it was. And so he recognized that. And I would do this thing of pleading and begging him not to end it.

[00:19:43] And that I would be better and that I would try harder with his son and that I would do anything. That's what I did. Do you, when you say those words aloud, and I'm sure you've thought them many, many times. I'm not a therapist or a counselor and this is not that at all. I'm just a curious guy. How do you feel when you think about that? Absolutely devastated that I got to that point where I was literally on my knees begging.

[00:20:07] Because if my daughter ever told me she'd done that, I would be, I would say, for goodness sake, get out of there. But again, once you're, when you're in it, you can't see it. Right. You're often the case. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So you're, so you're staying together, even though sometimes a couple of times he was like, he asked to get out of it. Yeah. Yeah. And we were, we were on holiday last summer, um, probably July time actually.

[00:20:33] So not long before this or the, the ending happened. Yeah. And he was being particularly unkind to me and not very nice. And I had forgotten that I'd done this, but I had text my friend and I'd said, I just want to walk into the sea and not walk out again. And she reminded me of that a while ago when I was having a moment where I wished I was still back with him. And she said, don't you remember you were in Spain?

[00:21:01] You said, I just want to walk away, walk into that sea and not come out. She said, you, that's not, you, you can't go on like that. You couldn't, you couldn't carry on like that. So I guess in my head, I was having thoughts of ending things. I, I don't know. That was the first, that's the first thing I can, like thinking back, but I think the first thought I had that it was awful.

[00:21:26] For the holiday, we, we came home and things just went really badly downhill. It got to the point where one afternoon he and his son and his daughter actually were all in the lounge area. They were all really unhappy with me. Apparently every time the son walked in the room, I, I walked out and I was making, I was making the living situation really difficult.

[00:21:53] So I said, okay, I'm, I'm going. So I said, you need to calm down. So I got in my car. I went for a drive. My friends are fairly local. My sister lives 45 minutes away. I didn't really know where to go. So I actually drove to where my boys live with their dad. So my ex-husband's house. I, I didn't hear anything from him.

[00:22:22] I tried ringing. There was no answer. I stayed there the night because I didn't feel safe to go back. The next morning I thought, right, I, I need to get up. I need to go around there and sort this out. I had some socks on that were, were quite slippery. And I got to the top of the stairs, which is a two, three story house. And I fell, I fell down to the bottom of one flight of stairs. No one, everyone else had gone. They'd gone to work, to school.

[00:22:52] No one was at, as it was at my ex-husband's house. Oh, this is still your ex-husband's house. Okay. Yeah. This is where I stayed the night because I didn't feel safe to go back. I could, I was in so much pain. I couldn't move. An ambulance came. They put me on a, like a block thing because they worried about my spine. I rang my sister. I said, I've fallen down the stairs. I'm not with my partner anymore. This happened last night. Can you come? I don't know what to do. So she came.

[00:23:21] She rang my partner. His words were, she's done that deliberately. He then told my sister that I hurt myself, that I cut myself. She didn't know that. He said, she, she's done that. She's absolutely done that deliberately. She hurts herself. She's, you know, she's not, she's not stable. She's not right. Went to hospital, just bruised, had scans, nothing broken.

[00:23:49] While I was there, I get text messages on my phone. We are done. We are finished. Do not come here. Stay away. Stay away. I'm bagging all your stuff up. Get your boys to come and pick it up. In the hospital, bruised up, and you're reading this on your phone? Yeah. Is anybody with you? My sister. Are you saying this like out loud? Yeah. Okay. So the two of you are there learning this. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:18] I was hysterical, crying. She was like in disbelief, really. I got discharged fairly soon because other than bruises, there was nothing else they could really do for me. I came back to my ex-husband's house near the hospital. My sister brought me back here. My boys were here. And I said, you're going to have to go and pick my stuff up. He's bagging it all up. It's all in the driveway.

[00:24:47] So they both went in their cars. And yeah, there's all my stuff in black bin bag. They brought it back. I can't explain how I felt. I just, I was in shock, I think. I was homeless. I really literally had nowhere to go. Um, my name wasn't on the mortgage for the house that I was living in with him. I had nothing to tie me there. No, nothing that I, you know, so it was just me out with all my stuff. Basically.

[00:25:17] I was in turmoil. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't hardly walk the pain, the pain in my chest. I just, I didn't, I didn't know what was happening to me. I've never felt pain like it. I can compare it a little to when my mom died, but when my mom died, I was pregnant with my daughter and I had to eat and I had to sleep and I had to carry on for the baby. At this point, I didn't need to do anything. I didn't want, I didn't want to live without him.

[00:25:46] And I still feel like I love him now. I don't know your experience of it, but I've heard enough people talk about it. And I've had my own experiences where it's like, yeah, it doesn't matter on paper. It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter that this happened. It's just, this feeling is so strong. Yeah. Great. That's the extent of my analysis of love and romance and relationship. The worst person to ask. I cannot describe how I even moved from one room to the next.

[00:26:16] It was just horrific. Did you try to reach out to him? No, no, I didn't. Because I remember you said earlier these moments when he tried to break up with you and you were begging, literally he said at one point on your knees. So there was no like. No, my sister said, no, she said, do not do it. You must not text him back. Look what he's done to you. Look what he's taken your home away. You do not text him. You do not do it.

[00:26:43] And there was something about the way he texts saying, if you know me, you know that we are completely done. I just thought, I thought there is no, I think this is it this time. I think if I beg, I just think he's going to think even less of me because he thinks I threw myself down the stairs anyway. And this was about a two, in total, like a two, two and a half year relationship. Yes. So, well, I went to bed. This is big house.

[00:27:13] There's a spare room. I'm in bed. I wake up at the crack of dawn and I just think I've got to do something. I cannot live in this world without this man. I cannot do it. Now, putting aside, I've got three children and a grandchild on the way. That still didn't stop me wanting to do this to myself. And I'm so ashamed of that. But what I did, I got up early before anyone else.

[00:27:43] I got in my car. And this is the first day of this week. I drove to places to find out where I could jump from, what I could do. You were looking for a high enough spot, safe enough spot. Yeah. Yeah. So I drove about so early in the morning, there was no one around. And I would get out at bridges across motorway. I would think, right, could I do this? Could somebody see me from here? Can I?

[00:28:12] And then I went to a railway crossing where a boy that my youngest son went to school with did actually kill himself from there. And it's got his name written in memory of by this bridge. And I got up there and I thought, right, I could do this. I need to work out when, what time the trains are coming, things like that. I was completely in this zone of working out what I could do.

[00:28:41] Yeah, you're really all in focused. Massively. I could think of nothing else. Right. I came back to my ex-husband's house. They, everyone here was kind of waking up. I had with me in one of the black bags that he'd packed up for me, my medication, my antidepressants, my, I'm on other tablets for other things. And I thought, right, I need to find. So jumping is an option.

[00:29:10] Jumping in front of a train is an option. But what's going to hurt less? Maybe I'll try pills. Got lots of pills out trying to work out what, what I could take. What would be the worst combination to take? I Googled it. What different types, you know, combinations of things. What would be the worst thing? Did Google give you any alerts, like if you're feeling suicidal? Straight away, yeah.

[00:29:37] So anyway, so that day was really, was really thinking about what to do. That day passed. The next morning, I had a plan. So I had packets and packets of tablets and a big bottle of drink. And again, I got up very early in the morning. I got in my car and I drove to an area where I've walked the dog before.

[00:30:07] There is like a wooded area. I thought, where can I go where no one can find me? Because I don't want to be found. I don't want to be saved. I can't do this in a house where my kids are. I need to be away. So this was like half six in the morning. And I went into this wooded area where no one would find me. And I sat by a tree and I took one pill after pill after pill. And I ran out of drink and I was cross with myself. Drink is alcohol?

[00:30:37] No, no. It was just, it was just like water. And how many pills did you take? Do you remember? Oh dear. I must've taken about 30. Okay. Go to sleep? No, I sat there for ages thinking nothing's happening. Nothing is fucking happening. People are going to be walking through this park soon because they are going to be going to work and I'm sitting here and I'm awake and why is nothing happening to me? And I waited and I waited and nothing.

[00:31:04] I thought, shit, I can't even get this right. Started to feel a bit sick, but nothing was happening. So I got up. I got back in my car. I drove. I shouldn't have driven. I drove back to ex-husband's house, got into bed and fell asleep. And I slept all day. Woke up, fine. Bit of a dicky tummy, you know, but other than that. What does dicky tummy mean? A dicky tummy.

[00:31:31] It's just, it's just what you say when you feel a bit, bit icky, a bit sick in your stomach. Sure. Okay. And I just, I was in disbelief. I was like, I cannot believe this hasn't worked. What the hell am I doing wrong? So the next day I try again. I did not have the energy to get in my car and drive anywhere. So I just laid in my bed and I took lots more different pills this time.

[00:31:57] And my sister rang me and I answered the phone and I must've been slurring my words. And she said, what have you done? And that's when she called me selfish. She said, you're so selfish. And then she put the phone down on me. My very close friend of mine who also suffers with mental health. I was, I text her something and it didn't make sense. And she was like, you're not right. I'm coming round.

[00:32:27] By this point I'd started vomiting and she came in and she's, she got the packets out the bin of the pills. And she said, I'm taking you to hospital. And I was being sick and I couldn't, you know, I was very dizzy. And we went into the accident and emergency area where you go in. There was no urgency. There was no, they just gave me a vomit bowl basically. And I just continued to be sick. Um, a long waiting time.

[00:32:56] I didn't see a mental health nurse. It was really, really bad. I was put on a drip for anti-sickness, which thinking now, I don't think they should have put me on anti-sickness because surely I needed to be sick to get everything out of me. My friend who was with me said, look, listen, I have, I have got to go. She had a younger child. Will you be okay? I said, yes, I'll be fine.

[00:33:23] I'd been, I'd been so sick at that point that, um, I don't think there was really any pills left in me. I had an ECG, um, for my heart. And then they said to me, okay, you can go now. And I said, sorry, uh, I did, I had no money with me. I had no coat. I just had my phone. That was it. And they said, you can go. I had literally had no, no signposting, no nothing for any mental health services. I had no support.

[00:33:52] And this is the hospital I work in. Oh, this is the hospital you work in. Okay. Yeah. The, they knew it was a suicide attempt. Yeah. Yeah. It's on my records. Yeah. Well, I mean, usually people don't swallow 20, 30, 40 pills. No. Accidentally or for any other reason that I'm aware of. No, that's right. So they're very clear that you are now in a stable condition in some ways, but hours earlier,

[00:34:20] you tried actively to end your life. I'm not, I, you know, sometimes I rip on hospitals for making people stay and not giving them agency. But then there's the other argument, which is so just, there's nothing. You just, what do you think is going to happen here? This is it. I walked out into the dark with no money, no coat, and I could have just walked in the middle of the road and just finished myself off there. Did you think about it? Yeah, I did think about it. Yeah.

[00:34:50] But I was, felt so, I felt so weak and ill at that point from what has been happened during the day that I just thought, no, I just need to, I need to go home. So I went, I came back to my, my ex-husband's house, got a taxi, came home, um, got into bed, went to sleep again, you know, no followup, no help from anyone. At this point, have you taken your meds so that you now don't have meds that you usually take every day?

[00:35:19] Um, I, I, I had enough. I had enough. I then, I don't know. I just thought, a friend said to me, you know, pills is the worst way. It's never, it'll never work. And I just thought, okay, what other way is there to do it? Then I'm going to have to do one of these awful things. I'm going to have to jump off a bridge or in front of a train because I've tried pills twice now and it's not work. And in this time, and I know it just happened.

[00:35:46] So it's a matter of hours or a day or two, like you're, you were thinking of ways to end your life, but, but, but one of the option wasn't not ending your life. No, no, no. I had to end my life. Nothing crept in. Like maybe I can figure this out. Not at that point. No. I just thought I cannot, I cannot live here in this world without that man. It was really, really, when you would think about it, it was really centered on him. Not just really him. Yeah. Yeah. I cannot function.

[00:36:15] My future, everything is gone. I couldn't see a way forward. So when do you try again? My daughter and her partner were coming round. This was a, this was a Sunday. They were coming round for some lunch and. Tea. Tea. Yeah. I mean, come on. Yeah. Some tea. Of course. And I said, I feel okay. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll cook. I'll cook something. So my kids didn't know at this point what, what I'd done.

[00:36:44] Ex-husband did know because my sister had told him and obviously living under his roof, he needed to know. And he kept my medication and gave it to me when I needed it rather than me having access to it. I said, right, I'll cook dinner. They're cut. They're coming over. And then I had in my head, I was like, oh, my favorite dish that I had to cook in is still at my ex-partner's house.

[00:37:13] It's something he hasn't given me that back. And I got in such a state about it. I was like, oh, oh no. He, you know, it's still there. Between me taking the pills and me cooking that lunch that day, he had left various things on the doorstep here that he'd forgotten to pack. In the mornings, I would wake up and there'd be his favorite mug that I bought him to have a cup of tea in on the doorstep. A picture, a photo.

[00:37:43] There was some cushions that I bought. These random things. And I got to this day when I was supposed to cook lunch, I thought, no, oh no, he's still got that. And I really want it back because it was my mum's. I need that. It's one of the last things I've got hers. And I thought, oh, oh gosh, am I going to have to contact him to get it back? What shall I do? I started cooking lunch and then I looked in one of the cupboards and the dish was there.

[00:38:11] He had sent it back with my stuff. And I thought, oh, everything is here. There's nothing left. You know, there's nothing more left now. I don't know. I just thought, oh, well, that's it. That it's so final. So I carried on cooking lunch and I thought to myself, I can't eat anything because I just, I wasn't eating anyway. I served their lunch. They sat around the table and I said, I'm just going to the shops. I've forgotten to get a few things.

[00:38:41] And they were like, okay, no worries. I said, I'm not that hungry anyway. You guys enjoy yourselves. Got in my car, drove to the train station, bought a ticket, sat on the platform, two hours waiting to jump in front of a train, but I couldn't do it. And the trains went by? The trains went by. People were sitting there. I sat there stuck to that seat and I couldn't, I couldn't do it. I so wanted to.

[00:39:08] I can't tell you how much I wanted to do it. Sounds like that. What do you think stopped you? I don't know. I don't know. I think it must've been the thought of my kids knowing that I did it that way because it's so horrific, isn't it? I don't know. I don't know what stopped me, but I couldn't. And in the end, I thought it's getting dark now. I'm cold. I can't bring myself to it. I tell you what I did think.

[00:39:36] The trains were going slower as they were going past the platform. And I thought, if I jump in front of one of these trains and it doesn't work and it doesn't kill me, what then? If I haven't got the pills right, I jump in front of a train that's too slow, which just injures me and doesn't actually kill me. I then got to live like that. I couldn't risk it not working. So you went home? Yeah. And that was five months ago? Yeah. Have you tried since?

[00:40:06] No. How have you gotten five months through without trying again? My grandson was born. Ah, what's his name? Cooper. Cooper. Cooper saves Lucy. Yeah. We have a memoir title. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. When I had my first baby, my mum wasn't there for me because she died and that was not her choice.

[00:40:30] And if I was then going to not be there for my daughter, I know how hard it is those first few weeks when you have a newborn. You know, I was 18. I didn't know what I was doing with the baby. My daughter's older, but she still, you know, she still need help from her mum. And that's what stopped me trying again. How much after the train station was Cooper born? How many days? Weeks? Four weeks. All right. So you, you, you, you white knuckled it for about a month. Yeah.

[00:40:59] I got, I did try. I had some counseling through work. I had some counseling. I didn't really feel like it helped. And all this while you're still working and you're living with your ex-husband. Yeah. Do you live with your ex-husband now? I have my own place. That's part of the, that's part of the, we're not calling it a recovery story because that sounds way too happy, but you have your own place. I have my own place, but I find it very difficult to stay there. Are you there now? No. Where are you? I'm at my ex-husband's house in the spare room.

[00:41:29] Are you friends? Like your friends? Yeah. Yeah. It gets on my nerves massively. I'm sure you get on his nerves too. Yeah, I do. But do you know what? He's a good man and he's there if I need him. Yeah. And my boys are here and, but I have, I have my own flat that I pay for, but I don't feel safe enough to be there on my own. Safe as in mentally safe that I'm not going to do anything. Have you been cutting yourself? No.

[00:41:59] So how do you cope? I know that you don't listen to music. I know that you don't watch TV. I've been, I've been reading a lot and I've been reading a lot about people that are struggling and suicide and, um, self-help books and podcasts. And I'm just trying to get as much information as I can. Right. And that was one of the podcasts you found in that. Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's one thing I haven't mentioned and that was in 2000, uh, 2024.

[00:42:29] Yeah. I was diagnosed with a type of myeloma, which is like a bone marrow cancer. Um, it's called smoldering myeloma. It is like, it's almost dormant. It's not requiring treatment at the moment, but it's there. I was with my partner when I got diagnosed. He was with me when I had my bone marrow biopsies and all of that.

[00:42:56] Every three months I have to go and get checked for this. And every three months I wonder if it's now time that I'm going to have to start treatment. Treatment would be chemo. Treatment would then be a stem cell transplant. I would have to be in a London hospital for a couple of weeks. I would have to have my immune system blown apart basically to nothing and then have these stem cells put in. That's going to happen at some point.

[00:43:25] I don't know when, but every three months I worry that that's going to be the start of it. When I was with him, I thought, right, you, you can, you're going to be with me through this when I do have to go through it. And he was like, yeah, yeah, of course. Now I haven't got him. When it comes to this, I'm, I don't want treatment. I've decided that no, I, if this is my way that I'm going to go, I don't want any treatment. Cooper's still a little baby. He is a little baby. Yeah. I know. I know.

[00:43:55] And the only reason I brought that up because that was the person you said that saved you. I know. But I think, you know, I almost think this would be a way out for me. People, you could die. There would be no shame attached to it. People would judge you for not getting the treatment, I'm sure. But is that a painful death though? Well, they would give me pain relief. I'd be, I don't think I'd be in pain. So if next month you go and it's, you've got it, how much time before you die? I don't know.

[00:44:24] Is it like weeks or years or you don't know? Okay. I think it's, I think it will be probably years rather than weeks or months because of the three month checks. If it has started, then it would be early. But you're not going to treat it? No. At least that's how you feel today. Yeah. It's how I felt for, for quite a while now. I, I'm even going to say to my consultant, I don't want three month checks anymore. And I find it quite distressing every three months anyway.

[00:44:54] So if I can have it every six months, something like that. Or yearly. So this is a sort of quasi suicide plan. I guess. It's a sort of suicide plan. I mean, maybe the word isn't suicide, but you're not actively trying to stay alive. You are like now, but like you have this condition, it's inside of you. So how many people know about the train? Maybe, well, my kids, my kids do know now. Three friends. All right. So there's people that know about the overdoses and the train. Yeah.

[00:45:22] Have you spoken at all to your ex in any way? No, no. The guy who checked me out? No, nothing. It sounds like you have at least one or two people in your life you can talk to, even if it's about suicide. Yeah. We're talking on a Friday. So it's early afternoon here. It's a little bit later there, obviously. Do you want to be alive? Right this moment? Yeah. Yes. Because I'm going to see my grandson tomorrow. Okay. How often do you get to see him? Twice a week. That's medicine, right? Yeah. Do you know about the pink and purple pill question I ask? Oh, I do. I do.

[00:45:52] You've thought about it probably? Yeah. Before I ask that, I want to ask something else that's kind of related. If I had asked Lucy any time up until the end of 2024, you're going to try to kill yourself. How would you have responded to that? No, no. I'd say absolutely not. Zero chance. I would say my mom would be horrified. She would be absolutely disgusted with me for doing that and I wouldn't do it.

[00:46:17] And had I given you the pink and purple pill when you were sitting in the park or when you were on the train, would you have taken it? Absolutely. Say absolutely on both answers. Isn't that, wow, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Million percent. I would have swallowed that pill. And died quietly. Yeah. Would have died. No pain. No one knows it's a suicide. I'd be like, bring it on, please. Give it to me now. And what about now? Right now? I would save it. But you're going to keep seeing Cooper.

[00:46:47] I know. I know. And I know that. But putting that aside, I still have really, really dark days. Still have days where I just think I just can't. I can't go on. And my kids and Cooper, they have loads of other people that love them. I know they'll be okay. I don't know. Maybe not. We can only guess, but it makes sense. Do you believe in God? My mom was really religious.

[00:47:17] And I used to go to Sunday school and I was brought up a Christian. But once she died, I stopped believing. And so if you killed yourself, where do you go? I don't care as long as it's not here. I don't know. I don't know where I go. It's just not in this life. I know you said earlier you like to read. What are you reading right now? I'm reading a book at the moment called How Not to Kill Yourself. A Portrait of a Suicidal Mind. Yeah, it's a pretty well-known book.

[00:47:45] And there's a poem in it that really struck me, actually. Is it okay to read it? Of course. It's by an American humorist, Dorothy Parker. And she wrote, Razors pain you. Rivers are damp. Acids stain you. And drugs cause cramp. Guns aren't lawful. Ropes tend to give.

[00:48:14] Gas smells awful. Might as well live. I don't know. It just struck me like, yeah, it's really hard to kill yourself. There's all them different ways, but actually it's really a hard thing to do. Pretty hard, yeah. Thanks for sharing that, yeah. When's your birthday? May. You think you'll make it? I think I will. Yeah. I think I will, actually. But I would still have that pink and purple pill in my pocket. I'm sorry it's not real.

[00:48:44] I know it's not, but I wish it was. A lot of people do. Are there any myths or misconceptions? You've talked about the selfishness thing. And by the way, I want to ask you a question about that. Because you said your friend, or your sister, I should say, said it was selfish. Most people who I talk to, this is one of the most common myths or misconceptions that come up. But from time to time, people who I talk to, attempt survivors themselves, says, no, there's definitely a selfish component to it also. What are your thoughts on it? I can see where they're coming from, but it's not.

[00:49:14] I felt like I didn't necessarily, looking back at it, I didn't want to die. I just didn't want to be in this pain anymore. The pain I was in was so crippling. I couldn't be a good mom. I couldn't be anything I wanted to be because I was in so much pain, I couldn't get out of the pain. And that was the only way not to be in the pain anymore.

[00:49:39] And I think unless you've been in that yourself, how can you say, oh, I'd never do that. Such a selfish thing. Unless you've experienced that horrific feeling, how can you say it's selfish? Is there anything else that comes to mind that you want to call bullshit on? Well, just going back to, I didn't realize how hard it is to successfully kill yourself. Unless you've got a gun and then you can just shoot yourself.

[00:50:07] There's not really, it's really, really hard. But, you know, I've read about people trying to hang themselves and that not working. And then you've just got, then got a really sore neck and you have to explain this awful rope mark around your neck. Yeah, yeah. I just, I just, it amazes me that I didn't realize that. I thought, oh yeah, take a few pills. That'll be enough. Off you go. But that's not the case. It's a hard, a hard thing to do. Probably by design. Yeah, yeah.

[00:50:37] You talk to your sister anymore about this stuff? Yeah, a little bit. She did apologize for calling me selfish. But she still feels it's selfish. She just apologized for saying it or maybe a change of mind. I think deep down, she still thinks it's selfish when I've got kids. That's the thing. Okay, right. Yeah, yeah. And I do feel an element of, you know, I do feel guilty and I do feel that's the shame

[00:51:02] and the embarrassment that, again, unless you're in it at the time feeling that, you can't, you can't get past it. For sure. When this comes out, now I'll send you an approximate date, but it's going to be a few months. You think you'll share it with people in your life? Yeah. My, my daughter's already said, mom, I don't know if I'll be able to listen to it. And I said, that's fine. Sure. But you know, you know, it's there, you know, it's there. It'll be there.

[00:51:27] My youngest son said, mom, I think I'd like to listen to it, but I don't know if I can listen to it on my own, but my girlfriend will listen to it with me. I said, okay, that's fine. Hope they're still together. Yeah.

[00:52:09] Yeah. Because it's not that at all. Do you think you'll listen to it? Yeah, I think I will. Do you want to share anything else? I don't think so. I think, I think we've kind of, I think I've probably gone on long enough now. Not about long enough. Just want to make sure you feel like you covered things. Yeah, I think I have. I have a notepad here. Yeah. I mean, we, you said to me about memoir and, and yeah, the one you said about Cooper, my

[00:52:36] grandson would be a really good one, but I had thought, I had thought of one. It was going to be simple. Help me. Because that is what I feel like I haven't had. I feel like I've been crying out for some professional help. Somebody do something, get me through this. So that's what I thought I would call it. And that applies to this day right now still? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:53:00] So I was referred to some talking therapies through my GP and they deemed me too high risk. That's absurd. So I didn't get any of that. So anything I have had, it's been, it's been counseling, it's been private or through work. In an imaginary world, what would help you the most? In an imaginary world? Well, we don't have to make it imaginary, but obviously if it was real, you'd probably be doing it. What would have to happen in your life?

[00:53:29] Do you think where that might not be the best memoir title? I would like, I would have liked some, some guide, some guidance, someone to say, right, I've got you. This is what we're going to do. This is going to make you feel better. Not straight away. You will feel better. You will, you will get better. You will get through this. And I don't think anyone could really tell me that anyone that I could fully believe anyway,

[00:53:55] because they were maybe my very close friends that I feel like would just be saying that, but an actual professional to say, you will get through this. This will help. And that is what I felt I was crying out for and still am to an extent. Yeah, but there's a word for that, right? Hope. Help me, help me. No, that's way too corny. But they're just four letters, start with H, one syllable. We don't have to get that clever. What is the rest of your evening like there in the UK?

[00:54:25] I'm going to watch some, do you have traitors there in the US? We might, but I don't know about it. Yeah, so I'm going to watch that and then I should go to bed. I hope you enjoy your show. Thanks so much, Sean. I hope you get some good sleep and I appreciate you talking. Thank you. Nice to talk to you. All right. Take care, Lucy. Bye. As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support. Special thanks to Lucy in England. Thanks, Lucy.

[00:54:54] If you are a suicide attempt survivor or ideator and you'd like to talk, please reach out. Hello at suicidenoted.com. I'd love to talk with you. Check out the show notes or the podcast description or the website to learn all kinds of cool things about this podcast, including things we haven't done yet, but we want to do. And remember, weekly poll on Spotify, five stars on Apple. If you think we warrant that, I think we do. And that's all for this week's episode. Stay strong. Do the best you can. I'll talk to you soon.

[00:55:23] Bye.