Louis in South Africa 🇿🇦

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00] it's like an empty feeling inside like every day I'm sitting I have to deal with that empty feeling in the sense of like it's just that brokenness inside of me and trying to fight it in the sense of like trying to get out of this and actually doing something but every day is very difficult like there's not one day that goes past that's easy for me.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_01] Hey there my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast I talk with suicide attempt survivors and ideators so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it we certainly don't talk about it enough and when we do talk about it when we engage with people in pain most of us are not very good at it and you know I'm being kind when I say it and frame it that way.

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_01] So one of my goals with this podcast and some other related projects is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with survivors in large part to help more people in more places hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone. Now if you're an attempt survivor or ideator and you'd like to talk I'd love to talk with you please reach out hello at suicidenoted.com.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_01] If you're curious and you'd like to learn more about how to help us out help me out help this small team out and continuing this work and expanding this work there's a few things you can do. One you can rate the podcast five stars of course that helps people find it and we want more people to find it. Two you can make a tax deductible donation. The link is in the show notes and the podcast description. Donalbox.com slash something. It's long.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_01] And finally you might be curious or interested in my private audio practice. seangwellington.com Sounds fancier than it is. But all of that helps us continue to do the work. Expand the work. In new places. Reaching more people. In new ways. I just want to keep doing it as best I can. And yeah. I'd love your support. If you think I and my small team of volunteers have earned your support.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_01] Finally keep in mind we're talking about suicide on this podcast like we've been doing for over six years now. My guests and I don't hold back and that is very intentional. I know it's not a good fit for everybody so please take that into account before you listen or as you listen. But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn. Today I'm talking with Louis. Louis lives in South Africa and he is a suicide attempt survivor. Louis in South Africa. Where are you?

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_01] Are you in a hotel? No I'm actually in an Airbnb.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_00] Why are you in an Airbnb? I'm staying at someone's place. I'm renting one of the rooms and the lady I'm staying at. Her room is very close by my room. I don't want her to hear everything that we are going to talk about.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_01] First thank you very much for meeting with me. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. You've heard the podcast. I imagine that's how you were able to even get the email to reach out.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_00] I heard about it like probably a month ago. I was at work. So I was at work and I needed something just to because I'm alone at work in the sense of like I'm a bookkeeper. So I don't have a team of other people sitting next to me and I need something just to get me through the day. I was going through podcasts and everything and I was like okay maybe a mental health podcast or so.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_00] Even if I'm in a suicidal state I'm like okay maybe I find something there that I can relate with. I was like listening to a couple of them and I'm like nah it's not working for me. I'm not relating to anything from that. And then eventually I was like for some reason like I say I am definitely on that suicidal note still. And I was like okay let me type in suicide.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_00] And your podcast popped up on Spotify. I was like okay let me try and give this a go. I started to listen to a couple of episodes and yeah I mean I was hooked quite yeah like from the start basically. I was like okay this is actually raw emotion. Like this is actually people talking from what they went through.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_00] And yeah I just could resonate with so much like relate to so so much of it. Obviously different stories but the concept is the same. People going through a struggle in their life. Yeah just to hear their stories. If they're still going through it some people are better off viewed now because obviously you have chatted with them. And all of them I think for that time and even now because I'm still struggling it's it's good to listen to it.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_00] And I've listened to quite a couple of episodes in a fact of where it's good in the sense of like I can relate to it. Like and it is good like in like people not knowing what the show what the podcast is about. But it's about so much more than yeah of course it's about suicide but it's about the process of it. And people again like your slogan says like you don't feel so alone when you're listening to it. And it helps it helps me a lot.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_00] Like I'm still having the issues that I'm having but at least like I know I'm not alone in in all of it.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah yeah yeah well cool I'm glad you found it. I'm not glad that you're struggling but you are struggling so that's the reality. And why why do you want to talk with me? I mean I know I'm the guy who runs the podcast but still like why talk about it and let other people hear it?

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_00] Well I think your platform is great in the sense of like lots of people struggling are listening to it. And I think yeah maybe even people that's not even struggling maybe family members of people that somehow have yeah that I found it out about this podcast or people that have been on that maybe let their friends know about it. That doesn't always know what everyone is going through. Like they think they know but they don't.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_01] So how many people know that you're talking with me?

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_00] Three people close to me. Yeah and the rest no family known like it's literally just three people that are clear about deeply and everything. And yeah I mean like if they want to listen to it cool if they don't want to that's also fine.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01] So you were suicidal a month ago. I'm imagining you're still suicidal.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_00] I am but I'm a bit better off now in the sense of like doing support groups at night. So it's online support groups. It helps a little bit. It's like at a website in South Africa like it's a SADAC. So it stands for South African Depression and Anxiety Groups.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_00] And so there's like daily meetings every day that you meet with some of the counselors and then some other people in South Africa where yeah you choose a topic and then you speak about it for like an hour. And yeah it's like a group thing. So yeah the other people struggles as well. And you try to figure life out I guess for that hour together you know.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_00] So also yeah just trying to see some of my close friends and just trying to get out because it's a struggle at the moment. I'm in Plettenberg Bay so it's like a coastal place still in the Western Cape but it's close to the Eastern Cape. But nonetheless my girlfriend that I used to had for six years we broke up at the start of the year. So we're in the same town and it's been extremely difficult.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_01] The Love Stuff man. The Love Stuff is not a bad memoir title. Not yours. Not yours. That's the thing for me too that like probably more than anything else just gets me like you know where I can't eat you know.

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_00] Exactly like and I've been through it before and that's I think that's a thing from my side that I probably need to work on. Because the person that I was with now for six years we are. I mean like we relied on each other quite a bit in a sense of like we were very codependent on each other. And the same with my previous relationship before that as well. And that definitely played quite a bit as well to my suicide attempts.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_00] Literally. Not everything about it. Yeah. Like there's a big part of it. Like I say it's been tough this year. It's been lots of downs. One or two ups. But yeah. Love can kill man. Literally.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_01] Mostly it doesn't but like it can.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_00] Like you said a part of it. How old are you? 30 years old. It hurt me quite a bit. And I'm like at the point of my life. Yeah. Like should I even hear about that like so much about people? Because I normally wear my heart on my sleeve. And I try to commit to a relationship like 100-200%. You know. I give it all out. But it doesn't always work out.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_01] Maybe it's just me. But does it? I know you're 30. We got a bit of an age gap here. But doesn't it? Does it make you at all want to be like I'm not going to do that again?

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_00] In the sense of like doing that caring so much about someone or? No. No. No.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_01] Because I don't think you can just turn off the I care a lot about you mechanism. But like I'm just not going to look for love anymore. Because it's too painful. I'm not saying that's how you feel. But I think there are people who feel that way.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. It has gone through my mind. But I definitely do want someone out there. I still want someone even if I'm not like perfect now. And I still believe like even with love you can. Two broken people can be together. And yeah. I mean like obviously there needs to be certain stuff in place. But yeah. I'm not sure if I would want to carry out life being like completely alone in that.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_00] Like I have some good friends as well outside there and everything. But I don't think the lone life is for me. Not for that long in the sense of like the next 20, 30 years.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_01] I never give advice. But I'm about to do it. Don't try the lonely life. Don't try the solo life. I mean you may get unlucky and not meet somebody. But it sucks. Full stop. Ladies in the world. South Africa. Maybe right now. Just got out of a just. You know. So there's still probably some wounds from the prior relationship.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_00] But Louis may be available. I know I have to work on myself. And I think in certain aspects I've been doing a great job. And other aspects not that much in the sense of like with the suicide attempts and everything. Like yeah. I still think that person. Whoever that person is. Is out there. If it's someone I know or someone I don't know. And obviously I want to give that person the best of me. In the sense of like I won't ever be perfect.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_00] I might still be broken. But that's why I say like would we ever be perfect like in life? Would we ever get to that point where you're completely fine?

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_01] I mean I can't imagine it. But I mean there might be like three or four humans out there that are.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00] Well I would want to meet them. I really would want to meet them.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_01] And I bet they're really boring.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah true. But I want to yeah. Okay well maybe their secrets won't work for me. But I want to know what's. How do they get?

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_01] You know people have like the nature nurture debate. Both I think play significant roles. But this is a sort of pessimistic perspective. But like I think nature plays a big role. You know how like we kind of live in a world where people. I don't know if it's a world. But many cultures or societies will have this idea. Certainly in the states where you know if you set your mind to something. You can do just about anything you want to do. I kind of think that's bullshit. There's a lot of things you can do.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_01] People can get better sometimes. But I don't know. There's a whole lot of things no matter what I try. I'm not going to be able to do. I think that's good because you understand kind of where to put your attention to. Oh am I the kind of person who can be in a long term relationship? Or am I able to not feel so fucking miserable all the time? How do we do that? Ah I don't know. I mean you're doing some stuff it sounds like already. So kudos to you for that. But everybody I talk to even the people who are actively suicidal.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_01] And a lot of people have had multiple attempts or live with suicide and they're thinking about it all the time. And I think even if on the surface or externally or from the outside it doesn't look like they're trying. They are. Because maybe for them just getting out of bed is a massive thing.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_00] No that's the truth. That's complete truth. Because I mean like there's been times where I've struggled to get out of bed. And sometimes I still do. I mean like must I even open the curtains sometimes? Like can't I lie in bed the whole day? And yeah but I'm trying to fight it because I know it's not good for me. Like I said I'm not there yet but I know like what not to do and the to do's.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_00] But again it's easier said than done in the sense of like I know I have to go exercise. I know I have to do this or that to get better. But actually doing it that's such a big thing. And people don't realize that.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_01] There's this funny thing that happens where people think they're giving like they give you information as if you didn't know it. You know like maybe they're trying to help. But they're like you know you get some sunshine see some friends go exercise. Usually not always but usually people are acutely aware that those things could be helpful. The problem is that they're having a hard time doing those things. But they're not unaware that they could be or should be if we want to use that word doing those things. Which then makes that advice really fucking annoying to me.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_00] No it does the same to me as well. Because I mean like like I mentioned earlier I'm in support groups. And even I mean I get something out of the support groups that I'm on like most of the nights. But still there's sometimes like the person that's in charge of the meetings. They just say do this and do that. And it's coming from a good place. But again it's I mean like they keep on saying just do this one small bit for yourself. And I get that. I really do.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_00] But actually and I've told them that as well. Well actually I know what to do but actually doing it that's a big thing to ask. Like even if it's something small.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_01] This happens every day all over the world all the time. And you point something out. It's like it's coming from a good place. But to me that's where it becomes almost dangerous. Because if it's not coming from a good place you wouldn't go to those meetings. So you're going and I'm not ripping on your meeting. But it's the people in our lives that are trying to help that mean well. They care about us. But there's a disconnect. Because if he keeps the same thing and obviously I'm not doing it. There's a disconnect. It's like I've heard you. Saying it for the 34th time is probably not the difference maker.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_01] So let's have a conversation about why or how I can't so easily be social. And maybe you can help me in that area. Who knows? And some people do that. Because they're just better at having these kinds of conversations. Or they have more empathy or whatever the things are. I don't think you have to go through it to get it. But sometimes I think it helps a whole lot.

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_00] No it is. And excuse my French. But it's fucking annoying. So let's do this. Sort of anchor this. You've tried to end your life right? Yes. Multiple. More than once. Two or no. Well make it three attempts of like actual attempts. And then all the others is like threatening to do it. And almost basically doing it. The most recent was probably two, three weeks ago. Where I actually just wanted to drive off a cliff. Yeah.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_00] So like I say it's still quite recent. In the sense of my most recent one. But I'm trying to fight it. Like I'm trying to fight this whole thing.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_01] Two or three weeks ago you tried to, not tried to, you almost drove off, you said a cliff.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. That's right. Well that was the plan. What stopped you? So I was actually visiting a good friend that I actually met in recovery earlier this year. And I went to her and it was actually, I don't like to use the word. I know it's, it is a term, but it was my ex's birthday, you know, the 12th of September.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_00] And she met someone else now like a month, two months ago. And I was like, okay, well, screw this. Like I almost wanted to do it on her birthday, but it fell on the Saturday and I was still at that friend's place. That was the Saturday. And I obviously, I stayed till the Sunday. I was like, I'm not going to do it at my friend. I'm not going to be that fucked up doing it at the friend.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_00] And I was like, okay, there's a couple of good long drops off the, if I literally drive off the cliff and everything. And I had the whole weekend planned. I was like about to basically say goodbye to it. And to say like, I'm sorry, it's probably, I was, I didn't say what I was planning on doing, but I was like just telling her like, it's probably the last time that I'm going to see you. And I was open about that.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_00] We had like a whole conversation the night before that Saturday night. And it kept me thinking about, am I actually doing the right thing? There is people that actually care about me. And yes, I'm in a very bad space, but I'm just thinking like, is, is it the right thing to do? That fall definitely would have killed me. I mean, like it's like, it's was quite high up driving up there and everything. Yeah.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_00] Something in me just said like, there's more than one person actually caring about you and wanting you here. And yeah, you don't want to be here. And semi, a semi, I don't still sometimes feel like wanting to be here, but I owe it to myself for at least trying to, trying to fight this and see where it goes. If it goes somewhere, the better place, great.

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_00] If it doesn't, it's like I say, it's not completely off the cross, but I promise that friend that I won't do it and I'll try my best.

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_01] But I think people that look for this type of podcast or a podcast and then talk about it. That's an example of trying to be okay. Like what you're doing right now. You got to be careful who you share with because it can backfire. But in my case, you're lucky because I'm not that kind of guy. I also have this unique situation in some ways unique because like we're not friends. I can ask the questions and hear the things that a friend or family member might struggle with hearing or knowing.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_01] I don't want to, I don't know if the word is safe space because that word gets used in weird ways, but certainly a space where people can just talk about it. How many of those, let's call them near attempts, like the one you had a few weeks ago. Like how many of those have you had? You don't have to detail them, but like, are we talking about five? Are we talking about a hundred? No, luckily not so a hundred, but I'd say probably between five to 10. One of the things I'm always trying to, I wonder about, and it, you know, it's different for different people.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_01] Obviously it's like, what's the difference between almost attempting and actually attempting? And I don't know if there's one answer. Obviously it's case by case, moment by moment, whatever. And when we hear about your attempts, maybe we will know. Before I ask you about your first attempt, you're 30. Do you remember the first time that you first thought about suicide?

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_00] I'm trying to think, to be honest with you, I can't remember, but it's like probably 10, 12 years ago. And again, I wouldn't be able to give you the reason in the sense of like, I would be able to, but like, it's lots of stuff in life that built up. And I struggled a lot early in life, actually throughout life with depression and with, I was in the hospital quite a lot when I was young and everything.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_00] But yeah, I mean, my first to get back to your question is like, yeah, probably like 10, 12 years ago, I was just like, probably fed up with life in general. So yeah, I struggled a lot with health early, early on and lots of accidents, like when I was quite young and those accidents and the hospital things, I think, kept me for quite a bit.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_00] Like, under anxiety, like gave me anxiety because all of that. Yeah, I was like at a very young age, like full of anxiety because of all of that stuff happening. And then later on, when I was in high school, some of my supposed friends that I had in Montague, they forced me into certain things which I said no to.

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_00] And I got bullied a lot for two, three years before switching over to a better school. Yeah, at eight by 18, I was basically not a bit quite broken inside of all the stuff that I went through, but I haven't actually properly worked through any of it. It just bottles up the whole time, like everything from the bullying to like struggling with anxiety from a very young age to the hospital stuff.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_00] Everything just feels a lot at that age to process it and just trying to find myself at that age. Of course, yeah. Do you have any siblings? I have one older brother.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_01] And do you have a relationship with your parents, either of them, both of them?

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_00] At the moment, no. I mean, the last 10, 12 years, it's been quite a difficult challenge. I do have contact with them. Like when I'm dealing with stuff like this, I normally try to shut them out even more. At the moment, I have bare minimum contact with them.

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_01] I think a lot of people do that. And like I do that too. I isolate to some degree, which is like, it's weird, right? Because you're doing what feels like you need to do, but then it can. And I don't know if this applies to you, but then your world gets real small. It feels like that's what you got to do. But then all of a sudden, no one's around.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_00] Exactly. And like friends and stuff, like some of my friends that I have for years and years, some of them stuck by my side in the sense of like during this difficult period this year. In previous years and everything. But then there's some of them that I haven't heard from them for quite a bit. And they know I'm going through like a difficult period. And that has been very hard to process because some of the people I've walked paths with for years and years.

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_00] I would do anything for those friends again. But if they're not even reaching out in times like this. And yes, like one of my therapists said like, yo, why am I not reaching out to them? I can probably. I probably most probably can. And I'm not saying their lives are easy at all. But then now I'm going through a lot. It's a bit sad that some of them haven't reached out in certain aspects.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_01] The other thing I was wondering about is as you were growing up, dealing with all that stuff, were you seeing any therapists or counselors or were you on a medication to help with the mental health stuff? Were you just sort of white knuckling?

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_00] For a very long period, I didn't see anyone. It was only, I think, grade 10. I was actually diagnosed with depression. So before that, I did see one or two times like someone when I was like in grade four because I struggled to sleep then. Like in the sense of like each night, I felt so much anxiety that I couldn't like actually sleep.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_00] And they gave me like sleeping CDs, which makes you go to sleep and everything. But that didn't work at all. Like those, that sounds, the noises on the CD, the calm noises and everything. It didn't help at all. I didn't see someone like properly till after school, actually. How old were you for when you first attempted? That was 2019. So then I would have been 23, I think.

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, 23 years old. What was going on then that you... So it goes back to our very first conversation that we had about like losing someone like in relationship wise. Things didn't work out. And again, it's not just the relationship. I can state that clearly. It's from... That was one of the triggers that got me to that point.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00] But again, it's lots of unprocessed stuff like relationship with family, the bullying and all the other stuff. Like it's just worked up. And that final trigger was with a girl that I was seeing not so long, probably seven months. So we saw each other basically every day. Yeah, she actually had to move to America. And I just got more and more anxious.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_00] And the relationship ended up not working out. And yeah, I didn't know what to do. I actually really didn't know what to do. I was like, okay. The moment she said that, I was like, okay, I'm in my car. I'm gonna try like go in my car and maybe eat like at full speed like a wall or something just to kill myself. And I ended up not telling anyone where I was going or anything.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_00] I was like, is there a small chance that I might survive like the crash? And I was like, I was trying to think like, I don't want to be like in a hospital or anything awake and trying to have attempted something like that. And I know I've failed or just be paralyzed or something like. Yeah, thoughts like that went through my head. But eventually I went to like a hotel in Stunnerbosch.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_00] Then in the Western Cape, I went to the hotel. I was like, okay, what can I do to, you know, like kill myself? And I was thinking maybe I should take like a knife. And I was like, okay, maybe you should try like put the knife to my neck. Was doing that, like trying to practice to actually, you know, actually put it in my neck fully. That's, I don't know, I bleed out or something.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_00] I was in a very, very dark space then. That girlfriend that I had back then, I don't know, in that dark, deep state, I was like, okay, what am I doing again? Like I was like wanting to end my life. I'm like, is this the right call? Am I doing the right thing? Like, yeah, I called her. She answered. She suggested I go to a clinic in Cape Town. I managed to get to a Kesa clinic. It's one of the clinics here in Cape Town.

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_00] And I think a week in, my stay there was three weeks. A week in, they let me, let everyone out, like to go out for two, three hours on the weekend just to like go see someone. If you're on good behavior or whatever, you can go outside and so on. And then I drove to, at that time, the girlfriend that I had, like same house, but in that same street. I drove there.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_00] I stuck a knife in my throat and I just saw blood coming out. I was sitting in the car there, not in front of the house. It was like a little bit up in the street. And yeah, I just saw blood coming out. I was like panicking again. I was like, okay, let me try to call someone there. I ended up, again, ironically, getting hold of a dad. And a dad came through.

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_00] I think they were actually out the whole family, including my ex back then. Yeah, I'm pretty sure she was in the car. He didn't say her dad. And he had to rush me to the hospital to get me fixed up and everything. That was my first attempt. Like, it was quite scary in the sense of like, I wanted to end things. But the moment you see like just blood spurting out, what am I doing?

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_00] Like, you know, your life is going to end. Like, why am I fighting this? And sometimes I think back as well at that. Like, why did I fight that?

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_01] I want to know the answer to that also. I don't know. There's people that have done what you've done and they didn't fight it. They're dead or something else happened. But there's a strong instinct to survive.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_00] Sometimes it's a good thing. But when you don't want to live, that's not always a good thing. And then again, you look back like, why did that instinct kick in? But it's like a survival instinct, like you just said. And yeah, there's other ways obviously to do it. Like obviously suicide and stuff. But yeah, I made that call back then. And do I regret it? Sometimes, to be honest, yes, I do regret it. Like obviously. And again, I'm still not 100% sure if I want to be here.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I was going to ask you if you regret it or you wish it had turned out differently. Because that's an interesting sequence of events. Like you were thinking about crashing your car into a wall. And then you end up in a three-week clinic. And after week one, they let you out for some fresh air for a few hours. And that's when you tried. But you used a different method. But then they took you to a hospital. They patched you up. Now, I'm curious, do you go back to that clinic you were at? Or do you go somewhere else?

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_00] So my one condition at the hospital was that they sent me back to that same clinic. And because there was two sections in the clinic. There was the one for drugs and for alcohol. And then the other one was just, I don't know, I guess also like suicide or just normal mental health issues. But not normal. But you get what I'm saying in the sense of I told them, okay.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_00] They put me back where I was. I will continue that. But yeah, I don't want to be locked up in a certain place. Let me go finish that. Even if I have to stay extra week there, it's fine. I wanted to be, because I made some connections in that clinic. I wanted to, I don't know, some part of me that still somehow wanted to be around, still wanted to be part of that group.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_00] Even if they, most of the people, those people would leave. And some of those people I've spoken with again. Some of them I haven't. I try to just see them again and try to go back to that broken place that was a clinic with all the broken people.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_01] All the broken people. So how long in total do you end up staying there?

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_00] So I end up staying for four weeks. I had sessions with a psychologist every day. So was my psychiatrist every day. We had group sessions for like seven, eight hours a day. Yeah. It was still tough. It was still difficult to deal with what's happened. And still going through that, that emotion of like, do I belong here? Yeah. Just trying to find myself again in all of what's happened.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_00] And am I actually going to be okay? Because once I leave that clinic, what then? And that was my big question. What then? I ended up staying at a friend's place for two or three weeks. I mean, like I can't stay at my friend's place forever. I realized that as well. But after that, again, where do I go from there? I ended up being like from place to place and actually trying to figure out where the fuck am I going in life?

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_00] I was still thinking, am I going to commit suicide? Am I going to completely go off the rails in the sense of like, no one knows where I'm going. Like just disappearing, trying to disappear. What am I going to do? Yeah. And I reconnected with one of the people that I met in Akiso. And that person that I actually met in Akiso, I ended up spending six years of my life with.

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_01] That was the same one. I'm not surprised. I mean, those types of things bring people together in unique ways. I have two questions. One, I assume some people there knew you tried to kill yourself when you came back.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, they could see from the big plaster on my neck. And I think, I don't know if they found out somewhere else or that. Yeah, but they definitely could see I did something to myself. Yeah. So they were quite concerned about me.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_01] Concerned. Okay. Concerned is a word that I can resonate with. You weren't punished for it, I hope.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_00] No, no. Luckily not. And again, that's one of my things that I had from the hospital is to let me back in the range with the clinic to not punish me in any way or anything. I promise I'll go back. But I don't want to be punished or locked up or do anything this or that. So luckily they agreed to it. Do you think it was a good idea that you spent the four weeks there?

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_01] Did it do more good than harm?

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_00] I think so. I mean, like I did learn a lot there from all the group sessions and met wonderful people. Eventually I met my girlfriend that I had there for six years. In that time period, I needed that because, again, I was completely broken and there was lots of other people broken there with me. And I could just like relate to that. And I felt like I wasn't alone.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_00] In that time when I was alone, I felt like shit. You have two more attempts in your 20s. Okay, so there was a couple that happened like where I wanted to. There was one occasion two years ago. So me and my previous girlfriend, we had a long distance relationship for the last three years. So the hour difference was six hours between us.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_00] Like I had to drive through like sometimes once a month to actually go to visit her for a weekend. The last three years of our six-year relationship. On my way back from the visit, after my visit that came to see her, I drove back. It was quite misty. It was rainy. The weather was quite slippery.

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00] But in my mind, I was like, I could feel something is not completely right in this relationship. In the sense of like sometimes it feels like, I don't know if I just felt insecure or anything. But if something felt off and my suicidal thoughts came back and I was like busy driving. It was late afternoon. At certain times, I could barely see what was in front of me, even driving a bit slower and everything with the car.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_00] I phoned her. I told her, I'm not sure there's a chance that I'm not going to make it. And she freaked out completely. And I told her like, listen, if something happens, then it must happen. And I was like on that thing of like, I actually wanted something to happen to me while I was busy driving in that heavy mist that was there and barely seeing anything. The wedge road, everything.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_00] There was like moments where I didn't concentrate completely on the road. When I saw what was in front of me, the car started to spin because I was actually driving a bit more to the side. And then when I tried to get back onto the road, my car started to spin across the road completely and completely wrecked my car.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_00] And luckily there wasn't any incoming traffic or anything. It was like an open road. But luckily there was no car in sight. Otherwise, I definitely wouldn't be here telling the story. I don't know if that counts completely as a thing because the one bit of me wanted to have an accident, even in that terrible conditions. But yeah, that happened two years ago.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_01] You said there was five to ten near attempts. Is that one of the near ones or is that what you're considering the second attempt?

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_00] I wouldn't say it's my second attempt, no.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_01] Tell me about your second attempt.

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_00] That was the start of the year. So I was actually at my parents' place, I think it was a month after the breakup. I'm not sure if I'm going to make it through the rest of the year. And like I mentioned, I don't have a good relationship with my parents. And yeah, I'm like all the other places. Some of my friends dropped me in the sense of like I could only stay a certain period of time there. I wasn't sure where I was heading because I do have a place of my own to stay.

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_00] But I wasn't happy at that working place that I worked at at that time. And I wanted to get out there. So I didn't actually have a physical place to stay. And I was like, okay, yeah. I don't have other choice. I probably had to stay for a time being at my parents' for the next couple of weeks or maybe a month or so. And before I actually get to work somewhere else, you know. No, I don't want to be here.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_00] I don't want to like continue this year without like without her. And I decided like to take some pills, depression tablets. And I decided to drink some of them, you know. I wanted to maybe just like take an overdose of it. Again, another stupid, non-stupid thing. Whatever perspective you're looking at from. I decided to call my ex.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_00] I told her like, listen, I've drank all this tablets and stuff. Thank you for everything. I told her. I know it's a bit fucked up probably as some people thinking. You call in like the person that you love and you like saying goodbye. And I did it more than once in the sense of like, well, almost did it more than once in the sense of like my other almost attempts. But this one was an actual attempt because I already had like all the tablets inside of me.

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_00] I told her like, listen, I don't want to continue this life without you. We had a deal for next year. Like the deal was to actually meet up in person and to focus on herself this year, like this current year. And to see where we're at in life. See if we want to continue this relationship or not. But at the same time, I knew she was going to see other people.

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_00] And that was stressing the hell out of me because she's probably going to meet someone out there because I still think she's very beautiful. I knew she was going to meet someone and it just scared the hell out of me. And I knew like, why am I even going to try the rest of the year? Because when we do meet up next year, she's just going to have someone else and I'm going to be replaced. You know, I always had that perception of like, maybe things will work out one day.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_00] But I'm struggling with that. I'm not sure. I mean, she's got someone else anywhere at the moment now that she did meet. And I was just like, nah, fuck this. I don't want to live or anything. And it's all the things with everything. I'm not going to continue with life.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_00] And she somehow convinced me like through a long phone call to say like, go to the hospital, get your stomach pumped or go get charcoal and get it out of your system. It took quite a lot of convincing to do that. And I ended up doing that. Going to get like charcoal to a pharmacy, from a pharmacy. I just started to get like heartbeats, like irregular heartbeats.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_00] And it's like gone quite fast. I'm like, shit, I almost passed out in the pharmacy. I think I did for a couple of seconds. My heart was like beating quite fast and like irregular heartbeats and everything. I'm like, okay, I'm busy overdosing here. I need some help quick. I just fell to the floor. It was scary. It was really scary again. Like I wanted to end my life. I'm like, okay, she convinced me to go get the charcoal, which was in the pharmacy.

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_00] Well, I wanted to get it from a pharmacy. She said, I must go to the hospital. And I wanted to sort myself out there. And I anyway ended up in the hospital for three days. Like, yo, take care of me there. And I wanted to escape the hospital as well. I literally took off the fluids and stuff. I literally take the pipes out of my arm, pulled it out. My arms started to bleed. I literally wanted to prison break out of there.

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_00] But yeah, my mom was there. And I was like, okay, I'm hurting my mom indirectly by she's seeing this side of me. And I still care about her a lot, obviously, even though the relationship hasn't been what it should be. I was like, okay, probably let me just calm myself down. I went back to the bed and then it's after me for three days. Yeah, that was my second attempt.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_01] Earlier this year, right?

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_00] That was all this year. Yeah, that was March, I think.

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_01] I want to back up for a second. And I want to hear about your final attempt, which is obviously this year. You're a bookkeeper.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_00] So does that require college? So I actually got my degree in B-com marketing management. So I'm actually like, I'm more into marketing. It's still one of my passions is like doing marketing. But the first door that opened for me was like in finance. I love doing finance as well. But it's still not something that I want to do for the rest of my life.

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_01] During your 20s, like late teens into early 20s, when things like sounds like they're getting harder. You're having these near attempts, actually had a couple of actual attempts. Do you have a therapist? Do you take medication? How are you coping? Whether it's, you know, in quote unquote healthy ways or unhealthy ways?

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_00] Now or in my 20s or both?

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, let's do then and now.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_00] Okay, well, let me start with now. So at the moment, I do see a therapist. Not enough, I feel like once a month. So yeah, that's not enough. If I could, like I would see him like every two weeks at least. Or every week, I would actually say. But other stuff that I do that might help at the moment. I mean, like obviously my job is keeping me a little bit sane by like trying to distract myself. But I'm still thinking about all these thoughts and everything.

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_00] Your podcast actually helps, like I say to a certain extent, quite a bit. So that helps. Actually doing something like I'm trying to get out like over the weekends. Keep my sanity like at all. Because once I'm finished with work, I normally, I don't leave the house because my ex is still there with her new partner and everything.

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_00] Like in the same town and all the stuff that I used to love, sports, jogging and all that, I've put to the side. Like I said in the beginning, it's easier said than done to actually doing some of the stuff. I know what to do. I know jogging is one of the stuff that helped me back then. Jogging with one of my friends back then. It's helped me a lot with my depression back then.

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_00] I know it's good for me, but actually doing it, knowing that she might see me or I might see her with that guy. And I already have, unfortunately. But I'm just thinking that she's going to think, oh yeah, there he goes. Not to what a loser, but like just feel pity on me because she knows like what I'm going through at the moment. And she pities me, I think, quite a lot. I don't need to pity. I just wanted her to be there for me.

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, man, I wouldn't want to see him. No, not a fuck. I don't want to see her with him at all. I still love her. I still think a lot about her. Even if she is not there for me during this year, even if it's like difficult, I still think the world of her. She's got problems that she needs to deal with. Do I think sometimes she's dealing with it correctly? No, I don't think so. Am I dealing with my problems correctly? Yes and no.

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_00] Sorry, to get back to your question from the beginning. I'm still feeling lost. I'm still feeling quite a bit lost inside myself.

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_01] When you took your medication and you overdosed, was that your medication?

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, it was my own medication. So you were on medication? Yes, that's correct. I'm on four different types of medication. Physician, mostly for anxiety, for depression. and then it helps with sleep as well. So if the one is like a mixture.

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_01] And did your therapists ever diagnose, you have depression and anxiety. Did you ever get diagnosed with anything else or those, the two biggies?

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_00] I've only been diagnosed with them. And that was back in, like I mentioned earlier, grade 10 when I just started to feel tired the whole time. And I thought like, there's something wrong with me. The guy that diagnosed me with that said like, you know, you've got like severe depression. Like, no, I wasn't aware of it back then.

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_01] Sure. So after the second attempt, what happens? Where do you go? What do you do?

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_00] Well, after that, I went to stay at a friend's place probably for two weeks or three weeks. And then after that, I did actually go for a small period to a clinic. Also met some great people there. But I mean, like it helps to a certain point. But yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, you're still having all those issues. You have the tools, but again, using those tools, that's something.

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_01] When was the most recent attempt?

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_00] A month ago. Same, basically the same story as the previous one. Tablets in, called her. And then after that, yeah, she convinced me again to just not continue like doing it. So I did have quite a lot in my heart, did beat irregularly. But the difference is I actually didn't go to a hospital after that because I did have quite a couple of pills in, like quite a couple.

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_00] But I didn't have as much as what I had in the beginning of the year. And I just left it. Nothing happened except some irregular heartbeat. Why do you think you called her? Because I still love her. I still care about. So even again, if people see this as being fucked up, but yeah, I still care about her. I still care about her deeply.

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_01] Right, and I'm not judging you. I'm just wondering, why did you call her? That's a slightly different question. You can feel that way and not call her. But I'm wondering why you called her.

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_00] Just to try to say goodbye again.

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_01] What if she says, you know what, Louis? I know you really well. I know how hard you're struggling. I know how hard life is. If you want to take those pills, I understand. As opposed to go get help. Do you think that would have pushed you over the edge?

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_00] Honestly, I don't know. That's a very difficult question.

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_01] I like asking a difficult question.

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_00] Cheers. No, I can hear that. If she, okay, well, if she said that, yeah, maybe I would have gone on with that. Maybe, I can't say with 100% certainty, I would have gone through completely with that. But yeah, I mean, if she gave me the blessing, then yeah.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_01] I don't know if it was a blessing, but it wasn't an absolute prevention. Don't do it. Get help. Somewhere in between. So I know your childhood was tough. You had some anxiety. There was a lot of anxiety and some other physical stuff with hospital stays. Pick an age earlier in your life before you ever tried to attempt or tried to take your life in any way. Maybe even before you ever thought about it. But I would have said, Louis, wait, you're going to make it to 30 years old. And in that time, you're going to have three suicide attempts

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_01] and a handful more of near attempts. Would you have thought, yeah, I could see that happening or absolutely not

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_00] or somewhere in between? I'm not completely surprised by it. Again, lots of stuff happened to me. Things started out very, very early for me in difficult sections of my life. I thought I could be stronger, but stronger in a... Strong is also not the right word because strong is like being okay with it for now and so on. But people living with depression

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_00] is still very strong, I believe, and so on. I wish it didn't have to end up like this in the sense of like down the road, 30 and all those camps and everything.

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_01] I don't think most people dream of this kind of life. I mean, I can't say for sure, but like it's not that, you know, you don't want to be in pain.

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_00] That's the thing. It's like an everyday thing for me in the sense of like, it's like an empty feeling inside. Like every day I'm sitting, I have to deal with that empty feeling in the sense of like, it's just that brokenness inside of me. And again, I'm trying to fight it in the sense of like trying to get out of this and actually doing something. But every day is very difficult. Like there's not one day that goes past that's easy for me.

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, it affects everything. I have a question that I usually don't ask. I don't know why. I just don't usually ask. But is there something that back in the day, but even it still applies to you today, but for some reason, I'm thinking more of the past, like that would have helped. Like now that you look back on it.

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, I mean like maybe, maybe if my mom, she's got like, she's got not separation issues, but she's had difficult struggle of letting me and my brother go in a sense of like, she used to talk to her mom like five or 10 times a day over the phone. And she was quite like, tried to hold on to us. And that's what parents do. I mean, like, of course that's what they're doing.

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_00] But it like tried to so much with all the stuff that happens early on in my life. It just wanted to push her and certain other people away. And that grew my anxiety even more because someone was actually trying to, someone close to me, trying to actually, I don't know, overprotect me because of stuff that maybe happened in her personal life as well and stuff that happened to me early on.

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_00] But that just gave me more anxiety. I'm not saying it's my mom's fault at all, but that definitely would have made a bit of a difference to be completely honest about it. Like, and maybe, yeah, the other thing could have been as well, like having better, I guess, friends at certain periods of my life, like not being bullied, that plays a big role. And people don't always realize what they're doing, children, what they're doing to other children

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_00] when they bully other children at that time because it stays with you for a long time and it makes you like a different person. It makes you feel like you're not wanted, you're not, you're not good enough.

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_01] Sometimes it makes you a bully.

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, yeah. I mean, like in certain aspects, sure. I found that as the outcast, many times when I hanged out with them, like I was the outcast and they just pipped on me almost every day and it's, it's still stuck to me till this day and I know it doesn't define, define who I am completely but it did play a factor as well.

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_01] Your attempts, let's just think about just the three attempts. I know that there are people in the healthcare system that know about it. I know your mom knows about at least one of them. I know your ex knows about two of them. Is there anybody else that you told?

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_00] My brother knows. Two, two or three of my close friends knows as well. Three people that I said that might, might listen to the podcast that I told about the podcast basically just there.

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_01] This may include them, it may include other people. When you're feeling suicidal, especially, I'm being rather extreme in the way I frame this question, how many people in your life do you have to talk to that you will be able to be completely open and honest and during that conversation or after that conversation, at a minimum, not feel worse?

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_00] For max, like I can literally count them who they are. I know if they, they have my back no matter what. I know obviously my parents are there, but again, I'm not going to go back to that in the sense of like not, we're not talking, but I know those people know what I'm going through and they are not judgmental and I can just have a conversation with them about that. So luckily, there are a couple of them.

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_01] I'm going to guess of those people that you just said, even though you can have a conversation with them about that, that you don't do that very often.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_00] No, I don't. You're right. Obviously, they know I'm struggling, but I don't think they know to which extent sometimes I'm struggling. Yeah, I don't tell them everything. The two, three people that I actually mentioned that I'm doing this podcast, I think they'll be quite shocked by some of the stuff that they haven't heard about.

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, well, it's an interesting way to educate people and it is hard. It's not as easy as people think because even if the people in your life that you really can talk to, it's like, do you want to do this every day with them? I understand why people pause before they do that, right? Because it's like you can, I'm almost sounding like a doctor. I don't mean to be, but like, it's a lot for people.

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_00] It is a lot for people and that's why I think some of my friends, I mean, like, again, they know I've been struggling. It's not, I'm not including this three, four people that I've been talking now. Like, the other friendships that I feel like I almost lost or are quite disappointed in for not reaching out. I think, not this year, but before then, I also talked to them about certain problems and I try to not like overload them with that because, again, everyone's dealing

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_00] with their own stuff, but I never want it to become like, keep on talking about my problems that people are later going to be like, oh, that's all that you're going to, are talking about. That's what I'm trying not to do and that's why some of the people here that I mentioned, the three or four, like, I talk to them about it but certain times, like, I do check in with them and they check in with me and everything but I don't talk to them about my everyday struggles

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_00] because I know people are dealing with their own stuff and I don't want to be a burden to them and I don't want them to just think badly of me or something. If there's someone that I can help with from my side, then great and I think my healing process as well with this is to help other people and the same goes with the people that I know. They've been through a lot. I've been through a lot

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_00] so if they can take one thing from what I've done or what I've told them or anything, I'd be happy. I'd really be happy. I'd be happy. Happy to a certain point, you know? Happy like... Okay. So yeah, I'd be happy and that's your goal.

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_01] Did we just find your memoir title Happy Louis?

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_00] Definitely not. That's the goal, right? So that's definitely the goal is to get to that point but again, it's a long journey, man. I wish there was a shortcut to it but there's not. It's not. It's an everyday struggle. I know what to do but I think for me what's key is also to help others and it makes me feel good and it's how weird it may sound. It's about caring about that people,

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_00] actually caring about them and I really do and that's where I get hurt so many times in my life as well is I care too much about people, especially people that I'm close to. I care so much about them and then at the end I'm just getting hurt. It doesn't matter if it's friendship or more than friendship or anything and that's why I go back to sometimes it makes me happy to a certain point obviously to help everyone but at the end of the day I'm like

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_00] I've only gotten hurt so far in my life so sometimes I'm like must not just put up a complete war but if I do that I know my days are definitely going to be limited in the sense of probably within a week or two I'd probably kill myself.

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, you got some very clear awareness on that. Do you think some form of assisted suicide should be more available?

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_00] I think so. If you really see no way out like really, really and you've tried so much and you're in consistent depression and you are in pain or you really see no way out and you've really tried everything yes and I am a Christian and I don't think that's a sin. I think God actually have mercy on people that commit suicide. So like heaven and hell? Yeah, I think definitely like

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_00] if you had a relationship with God and he sees you struggling and everything and you end up making that choice he feels sorry for you like obviously he wants to help but it's like a free will. you end up making those decisions yourself and everything and I think there is like he understands completely if you're doing it. Obviously he's not happy by it in that sense but I think he's not a condemning God like okay

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_00] you've done it go to I don't want to believe that. I don't think like from my point of view

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_01] well we just covered one myth are there any other myths you want to dispel?

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, I mean like again I think we've covered most of it but like I think people struggling with suicide and so on people don't always understand what they are actually going through so people mustn't make as if they do understand I think the best advice I can only speak from my point of view right so people that actually want to be there like let those people come to you when they are right or check in

[01:00:38] [SPEAKER_00] every now and then like don't completely leave them but like you still want to obviously feel like people do care but don't like bother them consistently about how are you doing how are you doing especially if you don't know what that person is going through like coming from a good place and everything but be there like in a sense of like don't over bombard the person if the person wants some space from you that's going through a

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_00] difficult time let them have that space because everyone space is difficult yeah

[01:01:29] [SPEAKER_01] do you

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_00] speak Afrikaans I do I do I can't part of Afrikaans a word of you say I can't if you understand me

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_01] well hang on a second we could have done the whole interview or conversation in Afrikaans but I didn't even I didn't even offer you that as an option

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_00] oh okay well let's end this one with Afrikaans

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_01] I don't speak it so it's going to be what's the word for suicide in Afrikaans um self-mort which is like a German based self-murder

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_00] yes that's correct

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_01] if I emailed you in one year and I was like what's up Louis uh you want to do an update episode are you alive to get that email

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_00] I would like to think so I can't make promises like I said I'm still battling it but yeah if if I really must give you an answer yes or no I'd say yes but obviously I'd still be not like as mentioned earlier completely in one piece I think I'll always be broken it's just about finding actually doing those things that I know what to do

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_01] well it's only two questions and they're big one of them isn't really a question it's more of an invitation uh around a memoir title you know that I like doing that I liked you just said something about oh I'll always be broken I don't love that as your memoir title but I mean there's some truth to it certainly yeah

[01:02:48] [SPEAKER_00] lots of people are broken like inside stuff that has happened to them I think no no no no no no no

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_01] we're not talking about other people we're talking about you broken as a title might not be enough what do you think

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_00] open broken road so something like that in the sense of like the road is open I'm uncertain of where it's going to lead to but like it's about finding being on that road on that difficult road of trying to find out where it's going to going to be to hopefully again to great stuff but yeah alright

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_01] time with the words open and broken and road we'll get there we don't know we're not gonna get there today

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_00] no no

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_01] the pink and purple pill question Louis for those of you who have never heard this question or this is the first time you've ever heard this podcast thank you for listening by the way I have a pink and purple pill that I give Louis right now I'm only gonna give him this option or this offer once so like if he said his answer it ain't available tomorrow there is no expiration date on this pill if Louis swallows it he goes to sleep there's no pain he doesn't wake up and nobody knows it's a suicide just Louis at 30 years old somewhere near the water

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_01] in South Africa died what would you do with it

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_00] I thought it's real hard about this question actually so I would say I would keep it I wouldn't I would I would lie if I say I would be throwing it away but I'll definitely not use it now I'm still trying sort of a just in case backup just in case backup just for if things really go south in my life and everything but again I don't I don't have to use it right

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_01] I have to use it you don't have to use it no you can use it nobody's coming into your house and finding the pill and shoving it down your mouth no

[01:04:39] [SPEAKER_00] okay you don't have to

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_01] there's no point in which it's like no you know but you gotta but but but but an interesting little thought experiment here is like there have been times in your life I think where if you had that pill we're not having this conversation right now because you're not alive

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_00] many times many many many times that I like just want to do anything so yeah no for sure it's kind of weird and maybe in a year's time you can do Afrikaans episode if we do if we do if we do the update then we can then we can do you can you can at least like we can beforehand like I'll teach you that's the correct English word yes

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_01] I really appreciate you joining me and speaking with me what I want to ask is an open question of do you have anything else you want to share but what I want to ask you Louis to do is first answer in Afrikaans and then tell us in English what you said

[01:05:30] [SPEAKER_00] okay so there was actually one quote that I wanted to share but no

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_01] is it the quote in English

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_00] yes all right

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_01] so if the natural quote is in English do it in English and then I do want to hear you try your best to do it in Afrikaans yeah

[01:05:44] [SPEAKER_00] okay so this is one of the quotes from Rocky Balboa Rocky's one of my favorite of the time man yeah I love this quote that he gave to his son in that Rocky Balboa movie so I think you know what quote is going to come up here okay so he basically tells his son this when his son is just I don't know just blaming his father for everything and all that the world ain't all sunshine

[01:06:14] [SPEAKER_00] and rainbows it's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it you me or nobody is gonna eat as hard as life but it ain't about how hard you hit it's about how hard you can get it and keep moving forward how much you can take and keep moving forward that's how winning is done yeah I mean like that quote has stood out

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_00] for me over the years and I've tried to hold on to it even in my difficult period so yeah

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_01] okay now hit us with some hard African same thing African I say

[01:06:56] [SPEAKER_00] it

[01:06:56] [SPEAKER_01] it is

[01:06:56] [SPEAKER_00] jammer as I it a bit of doner the world is not all soul and rainbows it is a very bad and bad place I know how you how you are you and it will you slow until you on your knees and you permanent let you and you will not you or I or anyone will so hard slow as you live

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_00] but how hard you can move in in to move how you can fight in to play go that is

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_01] rocky that is Louis that is Afrikaans what's the rest of your day like it's getting late there right

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_00] yes it's dark it's now almost nine o'clock at night so yeah it's I'll probably maybe watch a series or watch a movie and then maybe eat some desserts because I feel like it so that's what my yeah again if someone

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_00] out there can take one thing from our conversation that would mean the world to me if not that's also cool cool thanks so much Sean you thanks so much Sean we'll chat probably

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_00] yeah or something

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_01] let's hope take care

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_00] cheers man bye

[01:08:51] [SPEAKER_01] as always thanks so much for listening and all of your support special thanks to Louis in South Africa thanks Louie and you please reach out hello at suicidenoted dot com and that's all for this week's episode stay strong do the

[01:09:21] [SPEAKER_01] best you can I'll talk to you soon