Josiah in Utah

[00:00:00] I kind of feel like at this point if there is a God, he just kind of likes to play games

[00:00:04] Yeah, I don't know if he's actually my homie or not

[00:00:30] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast I talk with suicide attempt survivors

[00:00:38] so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world millions of people try to take their own lives

[00:00:44] We almost never talk about it. We certainly don't talk about it enough

[00:00:47] And when we do talk about it, many of us including me, we're not very good at it

[00:00:51] So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations

[00:00:57] with attempt survivors. Why? Well, in large part to help more people in more places feel a little less

[00:01:02] shitty and a little less alone and if you have been a part of that however that might be or look

[00:01:08] I really appreciate it. As you probably know, you can check the show notes to learn more

[00:01:12] about the podcast including our membership and a giant thanks to Helena. I hope I'm saying your

[00:01:18] name correct. Helena maybe Halina for becoming a member a lifetime member so really very much

[00:01:24] appreciated. Thanks. Now if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk please reach out

[00:01:29] hello at SuicideNoted.com on Facebook or Twitter slash X at Suicide Noted and by all means please

[00:01:37] reach out even if you don't want to be a guest if you want to share a thought a comment or

[00:01:41] you have a question I would love to hear from you and now finally we're talking about suicide

[00:01:45] on this podcast we don't hold back so please take that into account before you listen

[00:01:50] or as you listen but I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn. Today I am talking with

[00:01:55] Josiah. Josiah lives in Utah and he is a suicide attempt survivor.

[00:02:05] Hello sir, am I saying Josiah? Yes that's right. In Utah what is happening in Utah? Salt Lake

[00:02:12] counties that's where all the shit is that's where I got I like concerts I like to go to

[00:02:17] mental concerts and that's where all the metal shows are. Got a favorite band? Lincoln Park is

[00:02:21] probably my favorite band and the birthday massacre. And your shirt is that a band also?

[00:02:26] Yeah this is uh Suicide Silence they're really good if you like Deathcore it's not for everybody.

[00:02:32] Good lyrics. They talk a lot about dying. Okay and why are you in a car? I don't want anybody

[00:02:39] to disturb me I live with my parents but they probably wouldn't bug me but they might

[00:02:45] they're very nosy so they might eavesdrop and there's a lot of shit that

[00:02:49] they don't know and I don't want them to know so I've tried to talk to them in the past and

[00:02:53] it hasn't been really received not well received from my family. Some of them have been supportive

[00:02:59] at times but on a general basis I can't really I don't really have anybody to talk to.

[00:03:04] Yeah I used to have a good friend of mine that I was friends with for like six years and he

[00:03:10] was very depressed listening to this podcast I feel like he was like undiagnosed for the most part

[00:03:17] he got some medication at one point but I think it was just for his anxiety and I think he needed

[00:03:22] some for his depression because I think he was either borderline or even somewhat schizophrenic

[00:03:29] maybe because he heard voices and stuff. Did he die? No he's alive um we just part of

[00:03:35] separate ways we just like we moved in together we started fighting all the time over little things

[00:03:42] we would talk to each other about our depression but we understood each other so well that it

[00:03:47] just got to the point where it was kind of pointless like there wasn't we couldn't

[00:03:51] really help each other and he was going through a hard time I was going through a really hard

[00:03:56] time and yeah then this crazy chick from BYU got mixed up in the deal and yeah a long story short

[00:04:05] we are just getting started and I think we might already have a memoir title might not have much

[00:04:10] to do with you but it's good well it did kind of have a little bit to do with me because it's

[00:04:15] like he had like gone and slept with her and then decided he didn't like her and decided to

[00:04:20] like pawn her off on me and I had no idea and then I found out and yeah it was a whole big deal

[00:04:26] she played the victim and said that you know she had been used and whatever and she said that we

[00:04:32] should go pull a prank on him and so she took some of my condoms and went and put them on his

[00:04:37] bed he was not happy about that so that that caused the big thing I had to move out

[00:04:43] back to my parents house for a while and then we kind of found out that you know she had

[00:04:48] taken advantage of both of us and stuff and she might be a listener of the podcast you never know

[00:04:55] she did say that she did talk about going to the mental hospital here and she didn't have anything

[00:05:00] good to say about it so it's a possibility it's possible unlikely but possible in any case

[00:05:06] I appreciate you being here thanks man yeah thanks for doing this I really appreciate it

[00:05:11] I feel like I have nobody to talk to and I feel like I've listened to like

[00:05:15] pretty much every episode of the podcast and I was just like I think this guy would actually

[00:05:20] listen to what I have to say that'd be the first he's gonna do his best I'm kind of like I'm here

[00:05:25] because I know my family would be disappointed if I went but at the same time it's like it just

[00:05:31] gets so heavy sometimes so that I don't feel like I can live for other people and I feel like

[00:05:36] if they really cared for me they wouldn't want me to just live here and suffer just so that

[00:05:41] they can be in a better mood since I'm still here like you know even though they don't pay that much

[00:05:47] attention to me but if I was gone they would be sad and it would interfere with their regular flow

[00:05:53] of life and sometimes I just like most of the time I still want to be here.

[00:05:58] Is today one of those days?

[00:06:00] Ah today's not the worst day I took the day off I took tomorrow off as well so I've got

[00:06:06] some time I got a concert this weekend to go to so I'm kind of riding the end of my high

[00:06:10] here but once I hit my next low it's my lows are really low and that could be the end you know you

[00:06:17] never know.

[00:06:18] What kind of work do you do?

[00:06:19] I work in a warehouse that distributes parts for Napa I pretty much usually stock the shelves

[00:06:26] yeah it's hell my management has been changed around a few times and they just don't seem to

[00:06:31] give a damn about us and we're like one of the best performing plants in the world.

[00:06:35] Yeah but you said it was hell so I imagine is this uh well I guess you gotta make money right?

[00:06:39] Pretty much yeah yeah I'm looking for another job and everybody just tells me I'll stick with that

[00:06:45] job you got a good job and it's like yeah but I want to blow my brains out everything instead of

[00:06:50] going to work so I don't know if that's a good job or not.

[00:06:53] Right sure and I am going to guess you are what mid-20s?

[00:06:58] Yeah I'll be 25 this year I'm 24 right now.

[00:07:01] You had said you've been suffering for a while do you remember when the suffering began?

[00:07:06] I was thinking about it and I think the first time that I like probably started thinking about

[00:07:12] suicide I was probably like seven or eight in the context of just you know like we had known

[00:07:19] like we had heard of people that like my parents knew that had died or like

[00:07:25] occasionally the topic would be brung up and usually in that regard back then the LDS

[00:07:32] church has been a little bit more open about it now but back then they would basically like

[00:07:37] the worst sin that you can do is murder and killing yourself is murder so it's basically

[00:07:44] the worst sin that there is right? Just to clarify the LDS church uh the followers of that

[00:07:50] church are or were known as Mormons and that's how you grew up we talked about that before I

[00:07:56] hit record and I'm sure it's a part of this story no doubt and I wonder how does that church then or

[00:08:04] now handle mental health related things? They're more open about mental health now

[00:08:10] they you know instead of dying and saying oh that you'll go to hell or that it's a that it's a

[00:08:15] sin per se or whatever now they kind of basically just say it's between you and God whether you

[00:08:21] believe in God or not it's between you and God but they do say that there's you know it won't be

[00:08:27] better on the other side it will make things harder. The plan of salvation is is tricky for me I kind of

[00:08:33] feel like at this point if there is a God he just kind of likes to play games yeah I don't know

[00:08:38] if he's actually my homie or not. God as homie I like that so when you were growing up as a young

[00:08:45] kid and up until what 18 you had said you were living a standard or typical LDS life?

[00:08:53] Yes yes go to church every Sunday try to you know keep the commandments I was in with the

[00:08:59] with the scouts I got my Eagle Scout Award I got my duty to God award I was planning on going

[00:09:04] on a mission for quite a while. You didn't get to go? No I wasn't able to go because yeah

[00:09:12] long story short I'm a criminal so I can't I can't go on a mission. Okay just you know for a guy like

[00:09:18] me when you say you're a criminal I want to know a little more what's the 32nd version?

[00:09:22] The most I'll share is that I was a juvenile I was 14 it was a big mistake that I don't

[00:09:29] really like to talk about but it I don't know I feel like I've changed to spend almost 10 years

[00:09:36] and I don't know I don't know if I really wanted to go or not I would uh some of the rules there

[00:09:42] like you can only listen to like certain music there's a lot of rules you have to stay with your

[00:09:47] companion all the time. I remember one guy talked about it on the podcast that he went on a mission

[00:09:51] and it was like hell for him so yeah it's like it's good for some people um a lot of people

[00:09:56] you know they go on a mission they come back they get married but you know sometimes they

[00:10:01] don't they decide to leave the church. I have a couple siblings that went on a mission that

[00:10:06] they're okay they're still active in the church they're married in the temple all that stuff it's

[00:10:11] works for them. What's the church's stance on forgiveness? Yeah well in the church they

[00:10:16] believe that you can be forgiven from just pretty much about everything the only thing you

[00:10:22] can't be forgiven of is if you like deny the Holy Spirit but you would have to be like I

[00:10:28] guess on like the prophets level like you would have to like actually like I guess see

[00:10:34] God or like have some kind of divine like vision and then deny that or whatever and that

[00:10:40] would but so basically they say on a on a probably a normal basis that probably wouldn't be an issue.

[00:10:46] Yeah so for a guy like you family was involved in the church you were involved in the church

[00:10:52] you did a stupid thing when you were 14 that's forgivable no? Yeah it's more of like a legal issue

[00:10:59] I didn't have like a lawyer they kind of got me to admit to some stuff that I didn't really do and

[00:11:04] so I got some pretty hefty charges I got like a second degree felony and two class A misdemeanors

[00:11:11] as a 14 year old yeah. God bless America. And my public defender that I got didn't do anything

[00:11:17] he didn't he didn't communicate with us at all he kind of just let me be thrown underneath the bus

[00:11:23] my parents didn't know what to do like my parents are I wouldn't say ignorant but they're like

[00:11:29] they're old and they don't keep track of anything like current they haven't had to deal with anything

[00:11:37] like that they don't like doctors they haven't really had to deal with that much legal issues.

[00:11:43] So seven eight years old you feel how you felt when does the ideation when do the ideations really

[00:11:50] start for you? I don't kind of remember exactly when I started feeling like I didn't belong but

[00:11:57] I know at like the age of seven or eight it was kind of just a curiosity thing. Yeah I was kind

[00:12:04] of always like fascinated like with death because the in the LDS church they believe that you

[00:12:10] know there's life after and you'll go to one of three kingdoms or hell depending on how you know

[00:12:17] much you follow the commandments or whatever I guess like that they use the acronym sea turtle which

[00:12:23] is like the there's a celestial kingdom which is the highest kingdom of glory and the celestial

[00:12:27] kingdom is the lowest and then the terrestrial is the middle ground and then hell is outer

[00:12:33] darkness so if you basically you know don't do anything bad enough to end up in hell but you

[00:12:41] don't really try to go to exaltation then you could end up in like the terrestrial kingdom which

[00:12:48] is supposed to be like a hundred times better than earth and if you're like a good person

[00:12:54] and you're like trying to like keep the commandments but maybe you don't know all the doctrine of

[00:13:01] the the LDS church then you just go to the terrestrial kingdom and then if you get you know you get

[00:13:08] married in the temple and you do all that good stuff and everything you go to the celestial kingdom

[00:13:12] which is the highest degree and there you're supposed to be able to meet like god and jesus

[00:13:18] if you go into the other kingdoms you can like only be visited I guess by people and then

[00:13:24] you'll get to be with your family for eternity and all that so my parents got married in the

[00:13:30] temple and got us all sealed to them so we're supposed to be like sealed to them for eternity and

[00:13:35] if we do live righteously then in the next life we'll get to like be with each other I guess

[00:13:41] well then there's the next level that you're supposed to be able to then you know like continue

[00:13:47] on and become a god yourself and maybe potentially create worlds of your own and

[00:13:52] where do you think your parents are going so my mom has always been really into it so

[00:13:57] she believed that she saw me in a vision like 10 years before that I was born and she waited for me

[00:14:04] I have eight siblings I'm the youngest of nine kids she wanted 10 kids but she didn't make it for whatever

[00:14:11] reason and I kind of wish she would have stopped at eight but here I am and but she says that she's

[00:14:17] when my brother was born that's 10 and a half years older than me she said that she saw me

[00:14:24] in a vision and that she was waiting for me and that like I was special and I was meant to you know

[00:14:30] be here and and do something and no pressure yeah I don't know I guess there's times I felt special

[00:14:37] but as I kind of got older I kind of felt more and more insignificant like my siblings are all like

[00:14:44] a lot older than I am I was bored when my oldest brother was on his mission and so he's like 20

[00:14:50] and a half years older than me but the closest sibling to me is four and a half years older than

[00:14:54] me so I was kind of like I grew up with my two sisters but like I was kind of always by myself

[00:15:00] I really had a hard time making friends connecting with people all my friends you know we're

[00:15:07] really friends and they've you know I've always been pretty loyal person all my friends

[00:15:13] kind of just leave me behind so I'm kind of always the one I feel like it's left out

[00:15:18] so this is happening as a kid yeah I was kind of on cloud nine though at the same time when I was a

[00:15:23] kid I was a very hyperactive kid and I was homeschooled but my mom never really like she

[00:15:30] didn't believe in the public school system but she didn't have enough money to send us to a

[00:15:34] private school but she didn't have the patience to teach me because I was very hyperactive and

[00:15:40] she said that I had like ADHD how did she know that you had ADD or ADHD well she didn't she never

[00:15:48] got me diagnosed but she you know according to her research and what other people told them

[00:15:53] told her that she had ADHD that I have ADHD but in any case she was not equipped as a parent to

[00:16:01] like she didn't have the the knowledge like she went to school and she wanted to be an

[00:16:07] elementary school teacher at one point but she decided that she didn't but she had a hard time

[00:16:12] teaching my older brother like math and stuff and then by the time it got down to me 20 years later

[00:16:17] she wasn't really equipped to deal with that of course what kid wants to do school so I didn't

[00:16:23] want to do school and I'm home you know like I want to go outside I want to you know

[00:16:27] watch tv whatever and eventually I just got to the point where she just kind of gave up

[00:16:32] and let me do whatever so I didn't really get very I have maybe like an eighth grade education

[00:16:38] she signed a paper every year saying that like I got schooling and all that stuff so

[00:16:46] she should technically be in jail oh she should definitely be in jail especially that

[00:16:51] and the physical abuse she's definitely being jail what about your dad yes my dad he

[00:16:57] uh actually works for the the church he would go around and inspect the buildings and he was kind

[00:17:03] of like a maintenance guy he did that for like a long time but he he's a very kind of quiet timid

[00:17:09] guy he's a funny guy he was very much removed he's a workaholic he would come home and he

[00:17:15] would kind of be you know absent he was never really there and so my mom was she was the one

[00:17:20] that raised us all and did the disciplining and she was you know definitely the dominant

[00:17:25] one in the relationship she would sometimes hit me she'd throw shoes at me she would threaten to

[00:17:31] take me to the police station and have me go to some other family she could be very cruel you think

[00:17:38] she was dealing with some kind of mental illness or health condition uh yes very much so I think

[00:17:43] she definitely I think has some bipolar or maybe borderline something like that my grandfather he

[00:17:55] uh served in Korea he worked for the telephone company he had seven kids but my mom doesn't

[00:18:02] talk too much about it but he could definitely be uh abusive and my mom always had very low

[00:18:07] self-esteem she still does have very low self-esteem my mom's great now she you know

[00:18:12] she lets me live with her she makes me food and does my laundry and shit so like she said

[00:18:18] they were very supportive through my you know being on probation and but there was that there's

[00:18:24] definitely some some ways that they raised me that I am not okay with did you want to go to school

[00:18:30] oh yeah and I feel like I didn't get like a social like I feel like yeah I didn't get the social

[00:18:36] skills that I could have gotten I always wanted to go to school and I tell her I wanted to go

[00:18:40] to school like my friends would always ask me when are you coming to school like but she

[00:18:44] wouldn't send me there she she let my brothers go like half day then they got in with you know

[00:18:51] what she would consider bad friends and did what she would consider bad things and so because of that

[00:18:56] she wasn't really willing to send me there how many suicide attempts do you have in the

[00:19:03] classification like you you said like anything that I would consider a suicide attempt you'll

[00:19:08] run with probably four there's a couple near attempts and a couple attempt attempts

[00:19:14] when was the first one the first probably near attempt I was like I think 10 or 11 and I had been

[00:19:21] sent to my my room for some reason I don't really remember but I had remembered that you know my

[00:19:29] mom had said some things to me she would often call me a stupid worthless sometimes she would

[00:19:35] tell me that nobody loved me and then she would come around at later and say like the opposite

[00:19:40] so it was always very hard to kind of read what what the fuck she was trying to do but anyway

[00:19:47] I was just feeling like garbage and I had remembered that you know like I had seen

[00:19:53] like a tv show or something where somebody had like tried to like they'd like killed somebody

[00:19:58] with a pillow like suffocated them with a pillow so I like I tried to suffocate myself with my pillow

[00:20:03] but obviously you know I just didn't didn't really go very well I wanted that to die I just kind of

[00:20:09] felt like I don't belong in this world like I need to go you know and so now 14 15 years later you

[00:20:16] you felt that way yeah I feel like I thought about it quite a bit and I feel like yeah that was the

[00:20:21] first time I really wanted to like go I wanted to I wanted to die and how old were you for

[00:20:27] attempt or near attempt number two I remember when I like when I was on probation I got court

[00:20:33] ordered a therapist she's still my therapist but I've kind of stopped going to see her as

[00:20:38] of now I had told her because I was already feeling like miserable and like shit and I wasn't

[00:20:45] allowed to like see any of my friends or I couldn't go anywhere I couldn't be on a line of sight

[00:20:49] anything like that and it was tough and I had told her that I wanted to die and you know she'd

[00:20:56] kind of asked me how I want to die and I told her I was going to go get you know one of my

[00:21:00] dad's guns in the closet and I was going to end it you know and so then she called my parents

[00:21:07] in and put me on suicide lot she luckily didn't send me to the hospital I like realized now from

[00:21:15] listening to my podcast that I could have been fucking sent away to like a hospital but fortunately

[00:21:20] I haven't ever been so that's kind of the point where I'm at now is like it kind of feels like

[00:21:25] she's not really listening to you and then every other time she's recommending me their medication

[00:21:29] or wanting to send me to a hospital and I don't want to do either though so yeah I had an appointment

[00:21:34] yesterday and I canceled it and I don't plan on making another one in the near future so

[00:21:40] is that connected at all to this conversation the timing of it

[00:21:43] somewhat I mean she asked me uh like I she was one of the few people I told about the podcast

[00:21:48] asked if I you know if she could listen to it and I was kind of like I mean it's free

[00:21:53] for anybody to listen to but no really no but she's a therapist she might get curious you

[00:22:00] never know I she says she cares about me but I don't but she'd never like she's not like one of

[00:22:05] those therapists that like is actually good that will like call you like on her like personal time

[00:22:12] and like see how you're doing and stuff like that so you never picked up your dad's gun

[00:22:17] no I didn't know where they were what stopped you from doing what you were thinking about at

[00:22:22] 14 I don't know to be honest I was fully determined but I don't know my parents kind of

[00:22:28] they kind of like in a way ridiculed me they were kind of like oh you even know where the guns are

[00:22:34] like could you even do that like and I guess I don't know it probably just kind of got planted

[00:22:39] into my mind that you know I couldn't do it that that was in the way because I didn't know where

[00:22:43] they were yeah I don't know I can be simple minded like that sometimes so your therapist

[00:22:48] doesn't send you to a hospital your parents know about this well how do your parents

[00:22:53] feel about it I mean they didn't know when you were 10 about the pillow right

[00:22:57] no nobody knows about that I don't think except for maybe my therapist but I don't think so

[00:23:02] but now they do I guess yeah if they listen I don't think anybody's gonna listen to this to be honest

[00:23:07] but yeah at 14 your therapist called your parents in I can't remember what their exact reaction was

[00:23:13] I think they were like somewhat concerned but at the same time they were kind of just like why would

[00:23:18] you you know like like my dad especially was kind of like you know like why would you want to

[00:23:23] do that like I don't understand and my mom would kind of go go to the level of like I know how you

[00:23:29] feel type of thing but I know how you feel was is kind of like a cop out you really don't like I

[00:23:37] wouldn't say that I know how you feel because like I really don't have any idea like you know

[00:23:43] everybody's different and that was kind of the biggest issue like I felt like with my parents

[00:23:48] is like everybody's different they tried to wear race nine kids the exact same way and that just

[00:23:53] doesn't work so that gun incident was about 10 years ago what happens after my first real real

[00:23:59] attempt was like between April to July of like 2021 I was going through a hard time my roommate was

[00:24:09] doing his own thing we didn't really hang out and he wasn't really like listening to me and he

[00:24:14] like it was kind of like we would have the same conversation all the time like oh yeah like

[00:24:18] we we understood each other but we didn't really know what to say type thing and I think he had a

[00:24:24] girlfriend at the time I had just broken up with my girlfriend I want to say before I one of my good

[00:24:30] friends growing up I kind of found out he wasn't really a friend I was really sad and then I had

[00:24:37] gone through my breakup and I yeah kind of felt like an asshole through that whole situation

[00:24:45] I drove down to my mom's house and I asked her if she wanted to go for like a ride I just told her I

[00:24:53] said hey I was like pretty soon like I just want you to know that like I'm peace and out I'm going

[00:24:59] why did you tell your mom that I don't know because I knew that she wouldn't really listen

[00:25:03] to me what she didn't really and but I just kind of wanted her I just kind of wanted her to

[00:25:08] know I just kind of felt like well no one's listening to me no one listens to me and I just

[00:25:13] want there to be some kind of record knowing that like I explained how I felt before I decided to go

[00:25:20] anyway she went through the whole thing like oh I've been in your shoes type situation

[00:25:26] and then like once that wasn't really doing anything she kind of told me like oh it doesn't

[00:25:32] like she tried to tell me that like you know other people's like opinions didn't really matter

[00:25:38] of me and stuff and like she was basically expressing that like she didn't want to find me

[00:25:46] she didn't want to find me she's like I couldn't like bear going in and seeing you in a big mess

[00:25:52] like I couldn't do that were you planning on using a gun again I don't know I've always wanted to

[00:25:57] use a gun but I can't get a gun and I don't want to use someone else's gun because I don't want

[00:26:04] to incriminate somebody else I don't know and I like guns I like second amendment rights I'm like

[00:26:09] conservative in that way and I feel like if I shoot myself with a gun then you know that's

[00:26:15] gonna just allow you know just gonna contribute to like more evidence for them to try to take

[00:26:20] guns away from people and I don't like that so how did you try in that attempt tried the

[00:26:25] same way like like one of the three ways everybody else tries on this podcast with pills

[00:26:31] you are a man of various methods I will say it was just like melatonin which sounds really stupid

[00:26:38] but let me explain well I worked for this uh this place for a little while that did like

[00:26:44] they assembled like medical cables and there was our supervisor there he had to go one day

[00:26:50] abruptly because his son had gotten into the melatonin gummies and gotten into a coma

[00:26:57] so he had to go I think his son did make it but it was a close call like he almost went to sleep

[00:27:03] and never woke up so that's what I wanted to do I was like I just want to fucking go to sleep and

[00:27:07] never wake up I always wanted to die in my sleep that was kind of like I think both my

[00:27:13] grand my grandpa and grandma died in their sleep the the fucked up thing too is my mom also

[00:27:18] kind of reassured me or whatever she was like she's like you know I hear the easiest way

[00:27:23] to go is with pills you know like with some kind of and I was just like oh fuck no my mom is

[00:27:29] basically giving me the okay to fucking off myself here so I was like I'm sure that wasn't

[00:27:36] what she was trying to do but that kind it came across that way yeah long sin that's fine me

[00:27:42] so what happened so one day I had had a particular shit day at work and I came home and I was just

[00:27:48] like fuck it you know I researched I was like like I researched like this is the amount of

[00:27:54] melatonin you can take and I was like okay this might work I guess maybe in the back of my mind

[00:28:00] I kind of knew it didn't work but I was I wanted to fucking go so I was like this that was the

[00:28:04] only thing I had in the house so I was like fuck it you know so I took that took those

[00:28:09] and I tried to go to sleep after like you know a few hours of really shitty sleep I woke up

[00:28:16] felt like absolute shit yeah felt like throwing up but I didn't throw up yeah I was having stomach

[00:28:23] issues and but I just kind of yeah went uh went to bed went to work the next day told a couple

[00:28:30] of my co-workers they freaked out on me the one dude tried to give me a speech that you know he

[00:28:36] had tried to kill himself once and and it was a misfire the gun didn't go off and whatever

[00:28:42] in my mind I was just like why didn't you fucking try again do you by chance remember any of the

[00:28:47] content of that motivational speech by a co-worker uh he had said that you know that he you know was

[00:28:54] feeling really down in in a place and and that the misfire happened and that he was glad that he

[00:29:00] didn't do it and the whole thing that it gets better all that bullshit and then that his

[00:29:06] aunt had died and it really affected his uncle and all this stuff you know I guess maybe he was

[00:29:13] pouring his heart out but to me I honestly really didn't give a shit because I was like I don't

[00:29:17] fucking want to be here I wish I never woke up and this is bullshit and you're not listening

[00:29:21] to a fucking thing I'm saying so fuck you yeah he gave the speech that is that is probably

[00:29:27] common to what people deal with in the mental health space wherever yeah yeah let me ask you

[00:29:33] question does that has it gotten better no and look of course it gets better for some people

[00:29:39] and I know I might be attracting attempt survivors who've had not so good experiences who are more

[00:29:46] likely to have heard that kind of thing but it's a problem yeah things things have changed I

[00:29:53] I'm not with my toxic roommate anymore that's a plus I'm still at the same job though I've

[00:29:59] gone to a lot of metal shows that I'm kind of glad I went to but you know I don't want to die

[00:30:06] any less I actually want to die more right so you had gone to therapy you stopped and I know you

[00:30:12] don't take meds did you ever get a diagnosis you agree with uh she was think she was hinting like

[00:30:20] bipolar and I did have a couple random like manic episodes and so she was thinking maybe

[00:30:27] something involving that but she wasn't she just a therapist she was on a psychiatrist so she

[00:30:33] couldn't really give me a diagnosis she was always trying to go get me diagnosed but I never

[00:30:38] went to go get diagnosis no mad now if I had to live on medication then that would just

[00:30:46] honestly make me want to die more and I would just save my medication up and fucking

[00:30:50] I'm always wondering how people cope right whether it's healthy stuff quote unquote or

[00:30:56] not so healthy stuff what if anything helps you or helped you feel at least a little better

[00:31:03] running used to help me I ran six marathons and you and I've done st. George seven times but I've

[00:31:09] only finished it six times I passed out one time yeah I passed out like two blocks before

[00:31:15] the finish line it would have been my fastest time that was kind of the killer for me what's

[00:31:20] your best time three twenty nine oh are you are you fucking serious my dad's best times two thirty

[00:31:29] one damn it all right so running the original question is that how do you cope yeah running

[00:31:34] and music music is everything to me that's the only thing I care about him work on to a

[00:31:40] a metal show I do like to play video games so I guess that's kind of a cope too but usually I

[00:31:46] drown myself in a game or or music I want to try to produce some music before I go get some of my

[00:31:54] music out to the world maybe it'll help somebody maybe it won't but so you don't drink or drug

[00:32:00] or cut or anything else I drink yeah I didn't start drinking till I was like 22 but I drink

[00:32:07] a little bit yeah I tried I like I went like six months without drinking I'm not like addicted

[00:32:12] by any means if I wanted to give it up I could give it up that's the one thing I feel like I kind of

[00:32:16] inherited from my dad's my dad used to drink and then one day he decided that he didn't want

[00:32:22] to anymore and he's been sober for like 40 something years so we haven't gotten to the

[00:32:28] fourth attempt yeah so the fourth attempt was on the 29th of January of this year I had reached

[00:32:34] out to the podcast obviously because I was really fucking depressed and wanted to kind of say

[00:32:41] this I guess is kind of my final words or my suicide note per se I guess because I don't know

[00:32:47] if I'll leave a note but one last time to kind of say shoot the shit and say what I wanted to say

[00:32:53] so at that point 29th of January you had actually already been listening to the podcast right

[00:32:58] yeah it already sent in I'd already emailed you I think you had responded with uh with the

[00:33:03] itinerary yeah I started listening to the podcast and I think 21 or 22 so what happened on the 29th

[00:33:12] which is only a few weeks ago am I right yeah I was just feeling like shit that day

[00:33:18] went got a bunch of alcohol got really drunk and I got my my knife and I tried to cut my uh

[00:33:27] my big vein right here in the middle of my between my elbow and my forearm I was like

[00:33:32] surely that's like a big enough vein that if I cut that then I it would go you know yeah I tried

[00:33:39] with a with a couple different knives it wasn't really sharp enough so you have tried four different

[00:33:44] ways yeah yeah I've tried to drown myself before too but that didn't really work either I tried

[00:33:50] to drown myself in the bathtub before so on the fourth attempt you what happens you go to sleep

[00:33:55] you wake up obviously you're still alive and you think I'm gonna contact the bald guy in

[00:34:00] North Carolina say what I gotta say no you I'd already reached out to you you'd sent me the itinerary

[00:34:06] I almost didn't make it oh wow so you could have died while we were going back and forth in our

[00:34:11] communication I guess well I wouldn't have known I would have never learned no you wouldn't have

[00:34:16] known uh yeah we wouldn't be talking today do you think you would have gone to hell I think

[00:34:22] you probably would have been in what the terrestrial yeah probably I used to always

[00:34:27] say I'd go to hell and I'd ask Chester Bennington to sing me a song when he was alive or when he

[00:34:32] was dead when he is dead oh you want to meet him there yeah so uh the morning of January 30th you

[00:34:40] wake up you know paying on my arm luckily the the cuts were like noticeable but they weren't

[00:34:46] real noticeable and yeah I went to work nobody said anything I think I was wearing a long

[00:34:52] sleep shirt though but you know when I was home I have I wear short sleep shirts nobody said anything

[00:34:58] I've always been kind of too much of a bitch to cut but if I were to cut I don't think anybody would

[00:35:03] probably notice any motivational speeches from co-workers this time I haven't told anybody

[00:35:08] about that yeah the first one to know weirdly take some pride I kind of like being the first to

[00:35:13] know it's weird no yeah no I don't think I told anybody about that attempt on my therapist

[00:35:18] not anybody I told a couple of my co-workers about the podcast but as soon as I told them what

[00:35:23] the podcast was about they totally sowed out yeah that's probably what like 90 something percent of

[00:35:29] people do oh yeah it sucks because it's like one of my favorite things to talk about I feel like

[00:35:33] that's my favorite thing to talk about is either suicide or music nobody wants to talk to me about

[00:35:38] either of them really even music no because they don't like I let's do a variety of music like I

[00:35:44] grew up on classic rock music so I'm very familiar with that and pretty much honestly anything rock

[00:35:49] and metal I listened to some like electronic dance like trance music I like synth wave I like

[00:35:57] synth pop no idea what you're talking about but I'm sure it's great lots of lots of sub genres

[00:36:02] there's like hundreds of sub genres in the metal specific ones I listened to like suicide

[00:36:09] silence is deathcore I listened to metal core which is like kill switch and gauge if you know who

[00:36:15] they are yeah just I I don't know anybody I don't know what you're talking about I have a playlist

[00:36:21] on Spotify that's called kill me that nobody obviously follows or anything right and people

[00:36:27] don't talk with you about this what you want to do because they don't know it or they don't

[00:36:31] like it a few more questions something you said earlier made me think this conversation we're

[00:36:37] having is sort of a suicide note for you know yeah somebody finds it and somehow connects it to me

[00:36:42] then yeah this will probably be some of my last words last and only revered words recorded in the

[00:36:48] public wonder if I get shut down for something like that I hope not I hope I'm not the reason

[00:36:53] you get shut down because it's so very few people know about your attempts right yeah

[00:36:59] couple people in my family my therapist couple of my co-worker my older mate my old friend

[00:37:06] co-workers that I don't work with anymore but yeah not very few people I'd say less than 10

[00:37:12] so you've got these four attempts and you ideate a lot it sounds like and I always think about I kind

[00:37:18] of wonder how do you get up every day and go about your day I don't know I feel like with the

[00:37:26] depression that I have I would be one of those people's that can't get out of bed but for some

[00:37:30] reason I can just for the feel I think just because it's always been drilled in me that I have to

[00:37:36] like my mom doesn't like it whenever I take time off work everybody always questions when I take

[00:37:41] time off work they're just like why why are you taking time off work it's like fucking why can't

[00:37:47] I but they've always just been very taught me to be like hard working and and fit in with the

[00:37:56] the system and be normal I guess so I just I try not to pretend because I don't like to pretend

[00:38:02] I'm actually very open with you know people ask me how I'm doing I just like you know what I actually

[00:38:07] hate that question how are you doing if I'm just like you want scripted response one two or three

[00:38:13] ooh be normal I guess possible memoir title so I'm assuming and of course tell me if I'm wrong

[00:38:21] if you could go back to any of those four attempts or near attempts you wish one of them would have

[00:38:27] worked yeah yeah probably the only thing they're not wishing that I figured I've been to some I've

[00:38:33] been to some great concerts but at the same time though yeah no I still don't wish I was here so

[00:38:38] probably whether you end your life or not there's always gonna be a concert or many more concerts

[00:38:44] you don't get to go to yeah that's that that's kind of the thing that's keeping me alive

[00:38:48] I'm just like how many concerts do I want to go to before like who do I feel like I have to see

[00:38:53] before I go I'm trying to narrow it down who's on the list I do want to see the birthday massacre

[00:38:59] another time I've seen them twice but I do want to see them probably another time and my like

[00:39:04] my second favorite band are tied for first whatever you but they're definitely in top three the

[00:39:09] concerts that I'm going to this year I'm gonna go see I'm gonna go to Baratis this weekend

[00:39:14] and I go see Limp Bizkit taking back Sunday Death Leopard wait what Death Leopard yeah I got

[00:39:22] I got me and my parents tickets to go see Death Leopard your parents are seeing Death Leopard

[00:39:27] oh yeah my parents love Death Leopard I took them to see Kansas and uh and Foreigner and Loverboy

[00:39:32] last year I have been terribly guilty of putting your parents in a box that is the wrong box

[00:39:39] no my parents are actually really chill nice people any music you really dislike anything country

[00:39:46] I don't like any country music whatsoever there's some country music out in Utah right oh yeah

[00:39:51] everybody loves country music in Utah not just Utah so do you have anybody you can really talk with

[00:39:57] no I don't have anybody I can talk to I've talked to people like in my family friends that will

[00:40:03] maybe listen like that one time and they'll say oh yeah if you ever need anything I'll try to

[00:40:08] reach out again and the next time it's like they're kind of like oh you're still struggling with this I

[00:40:14] thought you were doing okay because I don't know like I kind of stopped saying everything I kind of

[00:40:19] stopped complaining and whining all the time and so everybody assumes that I'm doing fantastic

[00:40:24] because I just uh got sick of screaming and nobody would listen to me so you said something

[00:40:30] earlier particularly about your roommate where you would talk about things and then you got to

[00:40:36] a point where you felt like there wasn't much to say I think that's really interesting we don't talk

[00:40:41] about that kind of thing too much like at some point what do you say right yeah it's kind of like

[00:40:46] you you you said what you need to say you're on an understanding there's not really really anything

[00:40:53] else you can say because you're kind of just trying to reiterate because it just keeps going on

[00:40:59] but like it doesn't stop and then yeah sometimes you know and it always felt like we were on the

[00:41:04] opposite too like he'd be really depressed when I was doing like I wasn't super depressed or he would be

[00:41:11] like doing okay and I would be really depressed I kind of also I kind of in the end felt like

[00:41:17] everything I told him was a lie because I told him about my past and he went and tried to tell it

[00:41:24] in a twisted way and make me look like I was something that I wasn't turned me into a person

[00:41:29] that like I wasn't like a worse person than I am he told that girl that he told it like his mom that

[00:41:37] and he told me at one point when I was having a really hard time we got into an argument and he

[00:41:42] told me to go kill myself which was really hard for me to hear because he was like a brother to me

[00:41:48] and he was the only one I felt like ever listened to me and so I was like well

[00:41:52] fucking he doesn't even want me around anymore and I think the only thing that kept me alive

[00:41:57] at that point was just my rage just pure rage because I wanted to beat the living shit out of him and he

[00:42:04] started freaking out at me and then the one day he told me that you know he was gonna kill himself

[00:42:09] and he was gonna take someone with him which you know obviously was referring to me and at

[00:42:16] least I felt like and so I was like okay this has gotten you know out of hand eventually I

[00:42:23] got it I got him evicted and then I had two weeks to leave and I just moved out the next day and

[00:42:28] I've been with my parents ever since but it was it was definitely the worst time of my life and that

[00:42:33] still has given me a lot of trauma and PTSD I feel like it's been you know a couple years

[00:42:39] and I still it still doesn't you know a day doesn't go by where I don't think about it

[00:42:45] any myths or misconceptions you would like to dispel

[00:42:49] honestly all of them to be honest like all the ones that people say like suicide is the cowardly

[00:42:56] way out suicides the easy way out that's bullshit you gotta be pretty fucking brave to commit suicide

[00:43:04] and it's not easy I know that from personal experience the one time I tried to talk to my

[00:43:09] brother about how I felt and he told me you know that the people that commit suicide are like

[00:43:14] the like the worst people in existence and that they deserve you know to suffer for eternity

[00:43:20] for doing that to their family and all that stuff and so hey he wasn't very very good person to talk

[00:43:26] about that and then yeah the thing that people tell me all the time is it gets better that's

[00:43:32] the most bullshit thing it's like you can't possibly know that you don't know that you

[00:43:37] can't foresee someone's life in the future and and promise them that it's going to be better

[00:43:44] like you don't know like you can't control that that's not something that you should be thinking

[00:43:52] about let alone say to somebody it's like maybe personally for them it's gotten better and that's

[00:43:57] great but you're not them and so you can't guarantee that it's gonna be better yeah and then

[00:44:03] uh suicide is like a permanent solution to a temporary problem it's like I don't know mine's been

[00:44:09] ongoing for many years now so it doesn't really feel temporary to me and I see I see like the same

[00:44:16] kind of cycle of things going so I can kind of tell when uh when the high is coming to an end

[00:44:21] and everything's gonna circle around and go to a low and I just wonder if I'm gonna come around

[00:44:25] on top or if I'm gonna finally say you know fuck it let's get this done with so yeah

[00:44:30] it doesn't doesn't feel temporary I don't know life's a tricky thing I used to want to

[00:44:35] grow up and get married and have kids and stuff but now I kind of I don't want to like I definitely

[00:44:40] feel like my depression's passed on generationally somehow so all my siblings deal with it in one way

[00:44:46] or another and I think probably some of them maybe deal with it more than they would say

[00:44:51] I know my sisters definitely all deal with it to a degree I don't know I wouldn't want to do

[00:44:56] that to the kids and then this world's kind of a shithole right now too I don't know if I really

[00:45:00] want to bring anybody into this this world I feel like the end is drawing near and I don't know if

[00:45:07] I'm gonna be here for it or not random question are you a Utah Jazz fan no I don't fall sports

[00:45:14] I like to play sports but I don't fall sports you know my last question the pink and purple

[00:45:19] fill you got it now with you I have an idea of what you're gonna say but for our audience

[00:45:26] perhaps first-time listeners can I add one condition to it no do not fuck with my pink and

[00:45:32] purple okay what's the condition okay so my condition like I think you usually say like

[00:45:39] you go to sleep you don't feel any pain nobody knows it was a suicide my other condition was that I

[00:45:44] would get to attend my concerts for this year and then the answer would be fuck yeah I would

[00:45:48] definitely that means you don't take it tonight not not right now no I would say but yeah I

[00:45:53] would definitely take it this year I didn't ever want to live to be 25 and I was kind of tempted

[00:45:58] to like take myself on my birthday which is the 8th of September but the death leopards on the 10th

[00:46:05] so I have to at least wait till the truth okay so you save the pill but from what it sounds like

[00:46:11] there's always going to be another concert that you're gonna go to or planning to go to

[00:46:16] that's why I'm trying to narrow the ones down that I really want to go to but if there was

[00:46:21] ever another situation where it got shut down like COVID or whatever I would definitely be gone

[00:46:27] okay so I think one more concert that is the memoir title come on yeah the people that say oh I'm too

[00:46:34] old to go to a concert they always piss me off you're never too old to go to a concert

[00:46:38] concert everybody can enjoy music regardless of what age you are absolutely so what is your

[00:46:46] day like I might go look at some longboards my coworker invited me to go longboarding so I might

[00:46:52] go longboarding longboarding nice I should go longboarding all right so I said that I had no

[00:47:00] more question but of course I do want to open it up to you anything else you'd like to share

[00:47:04] there will be some people that hear this a lot of people have misconceptions about metal music

[00:47:10] especially in the lds community it would be classified like if somebody not knowing anything

[00:47:16] about metal would hear something that I listen to they'd be like oh that screaming shit or that

[00:47:21] screamo music but they really ignore it because they don't know anything about it do you know the

[00:47:27] band jimmy eight world have you heard of them yeah they sing that song uh at the middle I'm sure

[00:47:32] I'm sure if you looked it up you would know it because it played unless you don't listen to

[00:47:36] the radio but it was all over the radio anyway but they're considered an emo band and a lot of people

[00:47:42] would consider them like uh like a rock band or a pop band but they're actually an emo band

[00:47:47] and then other bands like suicide silence whatever that they would consider an emo band it's not

[00:47:52] really an emo band it's like a it's like a deathcore band you know the the most real music

[00:47:57] the most music that has the most true meaningful music and a lot of these people they deal with

[00:48:02] mental health so they know what it's like so they talk about it and their their music is just really

[00:48:09] true and then and if you listen to it not all my music screams all the time the guitar is fucking

[00:48:15] awesome so if you like guitar and drums well fuck yeah after a while you can kind of understand

[00:48:19] what they say and then screaming it takes talent it takes a lot of talent you have to practice

[00:48:24] it for a long time and you have to make sure you don't fuck up your vocal chords in the

[00:48:28] process and the people that can scream for like 30 plus years like Corey Taylor from Slipknot

[00:48:34] but like that uh I deeply admire them you know and like there's a video on youtube that's Jared

[00:48:40] Dines he goes around and asks everybody if they can give him their best metal scream he goes to

[00:48:44] just like people at metal concerts and they try to and a lot of them are like you know

[00:48:50] some of them will give a crack at it and some one will just be like no and then some of them

[00:48:53] will you know try and he'll be like was that easy you know and they'll be like no no and then uh

[00:48:59] the people that can do it he'll be like how long have you been practicing for and they'll be like

[00:49:03] 11 years 9 years you know 20 years and it's like an instrument your voice is an instrument so

[00:49:08] it's like learning an instrument and maintaining an instrument I love it I'm very passionate

[00:49:13] about it I'll try to send you that playlist to have a listen to it send it for sure I can't

[00:49:19] promise that I'm gonna love it but I'll listen what's the heaviest band that you listened to do you

[00:49:24] listen to any rock or heavy music a little before my time but I really liked Pink Floyd that's about

[00:49:29] as hard as it gets oh I love Pink Floyd had a buddy of mine who was really into Zeppelin I kind

[00:49:34] of like Zeppelin there was a local band up in New York that I liked called Zebra really liked

[00:49:39] Rush okay you didn't listen to any of the grungera like Allison Chains or Nirvana the Scorpions

[00:49:46] you know who they are yeah yeah that's a classic rock that's what I grew up listening to though it's

[00:49:51] like I really like the scorpions you know sticks Kansas foreigner it's not really hard though that's

[00:49:57] kind of soft yeah I listened to some soft stuff too I listened to some like shoegaze stuff

[00:50:02] there's a band called cigarettes after sex that's a pretty popular alt band now that I listened

[00:50:07] to that you know you wouldn't think a metal head would listen to that but yeah no they do

[00:50:11] they listened to I listened to some hip hop some pop but metal music is is where it's at for me

[00:50:18] what you know when someone's screaming your head off like you wouldn't think it would be but it's

[00:50:22] kind of relaxing to me it like makes it so like I'm always like screaming internally so it helps

[00:50:27] me to like you know someone else can scream for me when I can't scream for myself but they

[00:50:33] got some deep lyrics man what's the LDS church say about that kind of music the LDS church

[00:50:39] you know as much as I don't follow them like I don't go to church I don't really um but I do

[00:50:44] have respect for them they're not they're not as bad as everybody says they are they they are really

[00:50:49] really good people and a lot of people move here from out of state and

[00:50:53] Utah Mormons are definitely different from a lot of Mormons too but a lot of people like the

[00:50:58] Utah Mormons you know they say that there's some of the nicest people that they've ever

[00:51:02] met and they are they they can be very kind they can also be judgmental but I feel like

[00:51:08] a lot of people are though I know I definitely have a respect for the religion even though I don't

[00:51:13] really uh follow religion anymore but honestly the if you follow the teachings that they did

[00:51:19] you wouldn't be uh you wouldn't be a bad person you'd be a good person and a lot of the most

[00:51:24] popular saying is like the church is true and the people aren't so like what the church stands

[00:51:30] for is a good thing with some of the people you know they're not perfect so they aren't

[00:51:34] a great representation of the church including myself I'm not a very great representation of the

[00:51:39] but I'm not gonna say that that's like the end all be all that that's you know the one true church

[00:51:45] it's between you and God if you believe in God it's between you and God I don't feel like God

[00:51:50] is very much of a fan of me but I still talk to him sometimes you know maybe consider me crazy

[00:51:56] for that but yeah open-mindedness is a hard thing for a lot of people including myself

[00:52:02] it's a hard thing but I feel like if we could all be a little bit more open-minded we get long

[00:52:06] a lot better but the way that the shit's going down I'm just waiting for I don't know especially in

[00:52:14] America right now I'm waiting for it to kind of all crash and burn think it's gonna happen

[00:52:18] I feel like it is that's kind of the thing like I don't know I was like still part of me would

[00:52:22] like to you know maybe get married settle down have a family and and all that but I

[00:52:27] feel like if I did like there would be like a tragic accident like a car crash or something

[00:52:33] and I would lose my family or or I would just fuck everything up or or fucking a civil war

[00:52:39] or someone would break down and it would just be more of a hell living than it is so I don't

[00:52:44] know I don't have very great hopes for the future but anything could happen I guess and I'm not

[00:52:49] one to I'm not one to fake it till I make it I'm just gonna you know be myself and

[00:52:55] whoever can put up with me can put up with me and whoever can't well fuck a lot of times I like to

[00:53:00] beat my myself but I do get lonely you know I want to live the rest of my life alone I don't

[00:53:05] want to fucking work a job for 40 years either working hard labor I've got I've got scoliosis

[00:53:10] so my back my spine's twisted on my left leg shorter than my right leg and so causes a lot

[00:53:16] of pain that's the main reason I don't really run anymore is because it's just really pain

[00:53:20] it feels like somebody's like literally stabbing a knife through my back while

[00:53:23] I'm trying to run once I get about a mile in I do want to do a marathon but I don't know if I

[00:53:28] can have been kind of lifting weights see if I could get bigger but that hasn't really gone

[00:53:33] kind of so great it's kind of got more tone not really put on any size yeah I've kind of

[00:53:38] always felt like the black sheep I haven't been able to really measure up as as much

[00:53:42] to other people but I still try to give myself some credit not everybody runs six marathons

[00:53:49] actually almost nobody runs six marathons all right man so listen I hope I hope truly I truly hope

[00:53:55] that you enjoy your long war to get to go Josiah in a Honda somewhere in Utah thanks again thank you man

[00:54:08] as always thanks so much for listening and all of your support and special thanks to Josiah

[00:54:12] in Utah thanks Josiah if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk please

[00:54:18] reach out hello at suicide noted dot com on facebook or twitter slash x at suicide noted and of course

[00:54:26] check the show notes to learn more about the podcast including our membership we would love and we

[00:54:32] need that kind of support we've got some things planned but we need a little help in doing it

[00:54:37] and you could rate and review this podcast it helps people find it and of course we want

[00:54:42] more people to find it however you are involved thanks and that is all for episode number 209

[00:54:50] stay strong do the best you can I'll talk to you soon

[00:55:12] you