Grace in Oklahoma

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_03] It's like a part of you that has happened in your life, whether you've attempted or you've thought about it or whatever, and it's like this dark cloud that follows you and you tell the wrong people and people form these ideas about you. Oh, you're crazy. We've got to watch you. Only crazy people would do that. And you're like, okay, I'm crazy then.

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_05] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted. On this podcast, I talk with suicide attempt survivors and ideators so that we can hear their stories. Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never talk about it. Not really. And when we do talk about it, when we engage with people in pain, most of us are not very good at it. I mean, why would we be? We're scared of it. We're uncomfortable. We don't learn it. There's a host of reasons.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_05] So one of my goals with this podcast is quite simple. It's to have more conversations and hopefully better conversations with survivors in large part to help more people in more places, hopefully feel a little less shitty and a little less alone. You can call that prevention or not, reduction or not. I don't care what you call it. That is the goal. Hopefully we're doing that more than six years in. Now, if you're an attempt survivor or ideator and you'd like to talk, please reach out. It's really simple and I really want to talk with you. Hello at suicidenoted.com.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_05] As we are entering fall and then, of course, winter 2026 coming to an end, I want to let you know that as much as I want to keep doing this podcast and I want to remain on this planet, we've got some serious financial problems. And I don't like asking for money. I don't. Maybe that's one of the reasons I have serious financial problems. So I want to share with you a couple of things you can do if you can, if you want, of course, only to help. One, we're fiscally sponsored. That means if you make a donation, you can deduct it from your taxes.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_05] That might be the incentive you need. Two, I have a private audio practice using some of these same skills to help people in some other ways, though related. It may not be for you, but it might be something you can share with somebody. For now, the best place to learn more about that is themissingrecord.com. Finally, we recently started looking for sponsors quarterly or annually. We're being really careful with who we might potentially select for those that are interested in sponsoring this podcast.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_05] I will not ever compromise the integrity of this work. I'd rather fucking die. I'll leave it at that. I hope you trust me at this point. I'm doing the best I can. Now, of course, remember, we are talking about suicide here on this podcast. My guests and I do not hold back, so please take that into account before you listen or as you listen. But I do hope you listen because there is so much to learn. Today, I am talking with Grace. Grace lives in Oklahoma and she is what she would call,

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_05] and I'm going to ruin the surprise here, a half-assed suicide attempt survivor. Hey, Grace.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_03] Hey, it looks like you can actually see me this time.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_05] I didn't see you last time?

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_03] Mm-mm.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_05] Why didn't I see you last time?

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_03] Camera wasn't working for some reason.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_05] We should explain to the audience what we mean by last time because this isn't an update episode. Sean, the founder, producer, and host of Suicide Noted, after approximately six years of doing this work, had eight files, audio files, completed, fantastic interviews, conversations, including Grace, and he just didn't back them up. He got a little lazy, got a little too comfortable, thought the external hard drive would be enough, and you know what happens with external hard drives at some point? Stop working.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_05] Yes, and some said no or they haven't gotten back to me, and I feel like shit about it. All right, so you're in Oklahoma.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_03] Mm-hmm.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_05] Does Grace have Grace?

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_03] Some people tell me that.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_05] I like that answer. It's not what you think but what other people think. I did a tour, almost had a stop in Oklahoma. I went through it. So OKC, so the memorial, that's what everyone wants to go. Everyone goes to see the memorial.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_00] Uh-huh.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_05] I went to Oklahoma City Thunder Play. I just drove around downtown a little bit, then I found this shitty motel somewhere a few miles away. But I was on my way, I forgot, from Kansas to, I guess, Texas.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. I've stayed in the nicer hotels in downtown OKC for different conferences.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_05] So what are you making me feel like shit and poor?

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_03] That was the plan, yeah.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_05] Thank you.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_03] I wanted you to know that as almost 19-year-old, I've stayed in nicer hotels.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_05] Like, what do you mean conference? You're 19?

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_03] I'll be 19 in October.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_05] You're not even 19. What kind of conferences are you going to?

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_03] They were, like, youth government program conferences. I'm not sure. I don't spend that much time on other people's opinions because they don't really make much difference in how I live my life.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, I wish I had learned that lesson. Well, thanks for reconnecting. I really do appreciate it.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_03] Of course.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_05] I think when we talked, do you remember when that was? Would that have been, like, spring?

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_03] It was, like, February or something. I know, it's been a while. I know a lot has changed in my life, so it'll be different, so that's good at least.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_05] That's interesting. So if I had the original, it'd be one episode, naturally, and now some time goes by and it's a little... But some things are the same. We'll talk about it, but if you had an attempt, you still have an attempt. If you thought about it in high school, you still thought about it in high school.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_00] Yep.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_05] But some things have changed. I'm curious to know, and if you remind me, because I'm getting old and I'll forget some of the major changes, but that'll sort of organically come up. But as we speak right now, late August, 2026, almost 19 years old, in Oklahoma City area?

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_03] No, closer to Tulsa and Sepulpa.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_05] Closer to Tulsa. Closer to Tulsa. I like the way that rhymes. Like a perfect rhyme, which makes it even better. Let's go back. How did you find me? Do you remember?

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_03] Yes. I listened to the Moth Radio Hour when their podcasts come out, and I found you on the Moth. I paused the episode and immediately went and found yours and ignored the rest of their episode because I was like, my interest was so, like, piqued.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_05] By the way, if you are curious, the Moth Radio Hour is not easy to get on. If you're on, you know what, you're a good storyteller. Just saying. So, yeah, no, I was featured on there. I think it was probably one of, like, a few stories. That's how they usually do it. But I didn't realize, and I still to this day haven't listened to it, just because I'll ask people if they listen to, like, their episode here. I've never listened to it. I had no idea. They must have sent me something or I told them something about this podcast, and it was in the introduction of something.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_03] It was in the end part, and they talked about you for a second, and then they said that you had a podcast.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_05] It wasn't, like, part of my story. I didn't talk about it in the story because that was the one. Actually, I think that story starts with me having just left the psych center, finding a dance class, and it ends with me in Havana, Cuba.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, I guess I didn't remember the details of it.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_05] I didn't do a very good job then.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_03] Well, I got distracted by going and listening to your podcast, so I don't know.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_05] I would have rather you not listened to that story and contacted me than listened to the story and not contacted me. So you just were like, you just listened to a few, and you're like, yeah, I'm going to talk.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_03] I listened to it for quite a while before I reached out.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_05] What took you some?

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_03] I don't know. It seems like the people, it's like the people you see on TV, the people you hear in podcasts aren't real people. Like, not that they're not real people, but, like, that's not going to be you. And then I was like, huh, might as well be.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_05] And then it wasn't you because I lost your audio file.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_03] And then, yeah. And then the universe was like, no.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_05] Right. I erased you.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_03] Fuck you, universe.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_05] Fuck you, universe is not a memoir title, but for someone that could. Here's an annoying question. Since we talked in whatever it was, like late winter, early spring, has your life gotten better, worse, or neither?

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_03] I would say better. Yeah. Just because I was kind of in a transition state between kind of getting away from some of the jobs that I was annoyed with and finding something that actually pays on time. I've actually gotten to be a part of the fire department more, whereas I was just starting the fire department when we talked.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_05] So now I know how you found the podcast. I know I've asked some of these questions before, but no one's ever heard them other than you and I. The day will come where I might be able to salvage the original.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_03] You'll have, instead of, like, an update episode, it'll be, like, an archive episode.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_05] Right, right. It'll be the exact opposite.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_03] I like it.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_05] Why did you reach out, though? Do you remember? This is a little different. For most people, it's like a couple weeks ago I reached out. We really do have to go back in time.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_05] Remember as best as you can. Do you remember what compelled you to reach out to talk?

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_03] I don't know. It's always, like, been in waves, like, feeling suicidal, and I would listen more the more suicidal I felt. It seemed like a way to process. There's not really any other safe spaces to talk about it.

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_05] So say that again. So it's music to my ears. Say it again.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_03] There's not really safe spaces to talk about being suicidal.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_05] Music to my ears only because I'm proud of what I've done. Not music because it's ridiculous that there aren't anymore. It's ridiculous. And that hasn't changed since we talked.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_03] Right. No.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_05] There are spaces. They're just really hard to find.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_03] They are. And you have to be careful with spaces that are set up intentionally that you're not going to get reported because if there's anyone with a license in the room, you know, a mandated reporter.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_05] They're out there, but you have to be careful, which is, I don't know, I have very mixed and strong feelings about it. Some people would say if you're having waves of suicidality, the last thing you should do is listen to a podcast like this.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, they probably would.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_05] Let's be really clear here. So the audience is 100%. You are not dead.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_03] No. Alive and kicking.

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_05] Youthful. Orange shirt.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_03] Good. It's from a women's firefighting camp I did.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, that's cool. Women's firefighting camp. And you just wanted to stick on a sticker or something and say you voted, make sure everyone knows you voted?

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. It's part of democracy.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_05] No. Voting is part of democracy. Letting everyone know you voted isn't necessarily part of democracy.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_03] You get a sticker. That's the incentive to vote.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_05] That's what they do in a lot of industries with like 988. They give you a sticker. Put it on your hard hat. That's going to be the difference. But just give them more fucking stickers.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_03] I like to shame my peers who don't vote.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_05] One of the themes that comes up fairly often in these conversations is shame. Meaning generally when one wants to kill themselves or has tried, they don't want to be shamed. And yet here we are, Grace, talking to me, telling me that she is shaming people for something different. But nonetheless, I think we call that irony.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. No, I agree.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_05] Would any of the firefighters be open to having these kinds of conversations, you think?

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_03] I have mixed feelings. I love my department. I love the guys there. There's a lot of people with really small minds in Creek County. So that's going to overlap. I push norms. Sometimes I don't know what to do with that. But I'm a good firefighter. So they keep me around.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_04] That's something, man.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_03] I'm not an overweight dude who thinks that they can just wear a shirt and go to a brush fire occasionally.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_05] Are you describing me?

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_03] Tony, we have a guy on who's like 350 pounds and he is 27, I think.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_05] It's not healthy. Okay.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_03] It is not healthy. And it also looks really bad for a fire department.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_05] Does your fire department ever have like mental health days?

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_03] No. The most we can get after traumatic calls is one of our captains is much better. He'll call around and talk to people individually. And our other captain will tell people like shit like this happens, you know. There's people to talk to, but it's not me, basically.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_05] So somebody who's really struggling. And it is a tough job. So like that would be very reasonable. And there's not that many resources immediately available.

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_03] No, not at all. Not especially not in really rural areas.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_05] So did you have you tried or are you an ideator?

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_03] I half ass attempted.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_05] Did I laugh the same way last time? Because it's funny.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_03] Probably.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_05] No, no. Most people will say, I don't know if it's a suicide attempt or they'll say it was a half attempt or sort of attempt. I've never heard of a half ass. What does that mean? A half ass attempt?

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_03] It's like went through the motions, but also like, I don't know, knowing that it's probably not going to work, but that you're not going to take any further steps to make it really, really work.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_05] You're 14.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. But like I read like a note and stuff, but at the same time, I think I like realistically knew that it's probably not going to be super effective.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_04] It was Pels?

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. I tried to slit my wrists.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_04] Something about the word slit.

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_05] Why did you choose that method?

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_03] Because I used to cut. I was pretty comfortable with sharp objects.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_05] So you cut means you don't cut it anymore?

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_03] No. Sometimes I want to, but I don't.

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_04] Why is that?

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_03] Why don't I or why do I still want to?

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, both.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_03] I don't because I feel like it brings me immediately like results, let's say like relief or whatever, but I know that it doesn't fix any long-term issues. Two questions.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. The other part was like, why do you want to cut?

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_03] Oh, because it's very effective at regulating your nervous system in an unhealthy way. But I recently got to do the socially acceptable version of that, which was get a tattoo. It's on my leg. I don't know if the video is going to work.

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_05] I'm asking to see it. I don't need you to like.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_03] I want to show it. It's new. I got it on Saturday.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, it is a big snake on your left leg.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_03] It's like two thirds of the size of a ball python, like normal ball python that goes up my leg. Yeah.

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_05] Well, I bet the guys at the firehouse like respect you more now.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_03] Probably not. Not many of them have seen it because they're typically wearing bunker pants when we're doing stuff.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_05] Right. You don't usually go into fires in shorts.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_03] No. Although it has brush fires. There's been people out in shorts before, depending on if they could get their gear in time or not.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_05] That's the thing about firefighting that I've always been amazed by. Among other things, it's just the gear you have to deal with.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. It's like wearing heavily insulated clothes and really, really, really hot temperatures. It's like I think it's like 40 percent of firefighter deaths is like cardiac arrest from overheating.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, wow. There's something that's very fucking weird that just just crossed my mind and it's inappropriate, but I'll say it anyway. Like I'm imagining the snake burning in your leg. You could still see the snake and because you're burning flesh, it's like sizzling.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_03] It's fresh. The tattoo is starting to peel and it's peeling, of course, where the snake is, like shedding its skin, which I think is awesome.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, that's so interesting. Okay.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. You know, I don't know if tattoos on skin would burn differently than normal skin.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_05] That's a great question.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_03] I've been around two burned corpses we had in a wreck on the highway where a truck caught on fire. Every part of them was unrecognizable except for one guy's leg was up under the dash. And when you put it out, it had hair on it still and was completely normal because it was been insulated by the dash.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_04] Right. Right. Right. What's that like for you? I mean, that's got to be not the easiest part of the job, fighting dead people.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_03] It was one of our rougher calls. There was a horse trailer that crashed into a semi truck. Horses were rescued. They were fine. A bystander pulled them out as the trailer and truck was on fire and was able to get them safely back to the family. But there was a son and a father that died.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, shit. Yeah. So fire doesn't get called on suicides. That's more like police or other.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_03] Oh, no, we will go on death related things. My department is not medically licensed anymore. So we don't do medical calls and we can't provide medical care. But we will go and help EMS. And so like stuff like suicides or death investigations, they want us in our fancy gear that can be washed to deal with more dead bodies than them and their outfits that they have to go back to the station.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_03] Or like logistically, if someone's like up in the rafters and we have ladders and we can cut somebody down.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_04] All right. So have you done that?

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_03] No, we haven't had suicide call while I've been on the department. We've had a few where it's like we get the notes from the call and it was like, you know, this person took 30 of their sleeping pills. Son states it was accidental. You know, when you go to take one sleeping pill and you actually pour out the whole bottle and take them all.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_05] I'm just thinking about this. Is it possible to accidentally take 30 pills? It's mostly rhetorical. I'm wondering, have you ever had or seen an attempt on the job?

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, I think there's been two suicide attempts while I've been on the department, but it's been, yeah, not completed. So they didn't need us.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_04] Did you answer the question of why you reached out?

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_03] I think I was working one day to listen to podcasts while I worked because I worked with horses and in barns by myself. So I just listened to podcasts. There'd been a few weeks where I'd been kind of having a few rough weeks and was like, I really wish I could talk to somebody, but there's like no one. And then I was kind of listening to episodes and I was like, you know, I've thought about it before. I feel like I qualify. So it can't hurt. So I think that's why I actually reached out.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_05] There's one situation where you would have probably reached out even quicker. And you know what that is?

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_03] What?

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_05] If this podcast was called half-ass suicide noted.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_03] So true.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_05] And you've been like, I'm today, I'm reaching out today.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_03] Exactly. I'd be like, oh my God, it's made for me.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_05] So let me understand things here. Now, so you grew up in Oklahoma and at 14 years old, you have what you're calling a half-ass attempt.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_05] You used a knife.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_00] Mm-hmm.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_05] Ineffectively?

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_03] Ineffectively.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_05] To the point where nobody knew about it?

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. I was really good at covering self-harm scars because I didn't want anyone to know about it. I always was like, oh my God, I'm doing this for attention. And then I tried so hard to not show anybody. The only people who I've ever known about are the people I've told about it.

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_04] How many people have you told about it?

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_03] I feel like I've mentioned it. I've got a friend I've mentioned it to. And then my ex-girlfriend knew about it when we talked about it before.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_05] So your ex, your roommate, and a friend.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_03] Mm-hmm.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_05] But not a therapist.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_03] Oh, I guess that's true. Now, I didn't tell them voluntarily.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_05] Ooh. What do you mean?

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_03] It was like roll up your sleeves.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_05] Who said that?

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_03] Therapist.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_05] What if you said no?

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_03] I didn't feel like I was in that position because I was forced into therapy.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, wow.

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_03] And I knew that if I didn't comply, I would get in more trouble.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_05] I wonder the percentage of times it works when someone's forced into therapy.

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_03] Well, it didn't. And I haven't gone back to therapy.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_05] So it probably actually backfired some.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_03] It did backfire. Yeah, no, I was literally forced to be in that session with my parents on either side of me. And they left the room for some idea of privacy. And he was like, do you cut? But I was like, well, he's going to keep digging. I could tell.

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_03] Then he was like, show me.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_05] Well, so it's an older man with a 14-year-old girl. I mean, there's a lot of pressure there. And he's a therapist. And there's all these other things. But I didn't realize that even then as a 14-year-old, your parents are in the room doing therapy?

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_03] They were in the room for the first session to tell him what I wouldn't tell him.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_05] What was that?

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_03] That I was suicidal.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_05] And they were right.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, yeah. I mean, they'd force me to tell them as well.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_05] But was it true?

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_05] How'd they know?

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_03] Because they basically cornered me in my room and asked me, point blank.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_05] Were you tempted to, I wonder? I mean, why didn't you fib a little bit?

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_03] Because I checked every box. Clinically and literally in the clinic. So that's kind of amusing.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_05] So what are the boxes? Let me see if I know. At this point, I should know.

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_03] You should definitely know.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_05] I know, I know, I know. But you'd be surprised at what I don't know.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_03] It's like for the severe depression checklist or the depression checklist. It's like, how often have you felt like little joy doing things in life? Like no days, few days. And I was like, you know, do you ever think about hurting yourself or other? How many days? Yeah. Hurting others every day. I'm pissed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_05] Kind of like homicidal, man. I'm a 14-year-old girl with some depression and I cut some. And yeah, I just want to go out and kill half my neighborhood. Thanks for making sure you ask that question. It's just really appropriate. All right. So how many sessions did you have with that therapist?

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_03] I don't remember. My coping mechanism was like dissociating. So I remember that session, but I'm not sure how long I was with that therapist. I've been with a few, but I didn't click with any of them. And it was also still, like I said, kind of like, you should do therapy. Oh, I'm good. No, you should really do therapy. Ah, that doesn't. You're doing therapy. Oh, okay. We're putting you in this room with this person for 50 minutes. Like you talk or you don't. So I would kind of just like bullshit.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_05] Are you doing that with me right now?

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_03] No.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_05] Are you bullshitting me?

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_03] You're not a therapist. I have no reason to.

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_05] How do you know for sure I'm not a therapist?

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_03] Wow. Well, you would probably be really unsuccessful at this. And I'll probably also not be as good at talking about this.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_05] That's funny. You love therapists. I can tell.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_03] I like the idea of therapy. Sure. And actually my work gives six free counseling sessions and then six free coaching sessions as well. Yeah. You know, I'm going to use them just because I want to take all I can from the company. It's on my own terms. So that makes it a lot different. And I get to pick who it is, which makes it different too.

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_05] It does make a difference. And yes, take what you can get for sure. Well, at 14, you had this attempt-ish. But how old were you when you started thinking about it? And if you were a disassociator, I know that might be a hard question, but do you know how old you were when you were first? So like, um.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_03] I feel like I had just turned 13 and I kind of knew that something was like off, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Like I was just not as happy.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_05] Like how do you, like you weren't as happy as you were at 12 or you weren't as happy as the other kids around you by what they presented?

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_03] I don't know. I feel like it was just like, I could tell that there was like some sort of block in my mind that I wasn't letting, they were something building up that I couldn't tell what it was or why it would be there.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_03] That was like causing concern. Um, but I didn't tell anybody because why would I do that? And then I met a neighbor across the street. She ended up being very suicidal and I was her only like support person. Um, and she was 35 and I was 13.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, that's feels weird to me.

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. I used to, I started out helping with her horses. They weren't actually her horses. They were her girlfriend's horses, but that was why I spent time over there. And then I wanted to be someone, you know, she could trust and whatnot because like, I always wanted to be older than I was. So, you know, wanted to put myself in that situation. Obviously it wasn't my fault because I was a child. She had a lot of trauma from her childhood where I think she kind of stopped maturing after that.

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_03] And so we got along really well because she had similar mentality to someone who was my age, but she was an adult with an adult life. I could tell something was wrong with her and I finally got her to tell me. And then I was like her only support person. And that was a lot for a kid. And I didn't tell my parents about it for over a year.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_04] Did she survive?

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_05] You talked to her?

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_03] No, not really.

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_05] And so it goes. So is firefighting your main gig, your main job?

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_03] And now work in the hospital.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_04] And you're a firefighter?

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. Well, I'm volunteer fire, so I don't get paid.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, both. What's your role at the hospital?

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_03] I'm a surgery assistant.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_04] Do you ever see suicides there?

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_03] Attempts and stuff, yeah.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_04] So you're around it?

[00:22:50] Yeah.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_03] I find the surgery side of it very fascinating because we get some crazy traumas that come in. I work weekend overnight, so that's all we have is traumas.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_05] So you're okay with the blood and the guts?

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_03] Oh, yeah.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_05] No problem.

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_03] Not an issue with that, no.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_05] Really? I don't think I can handle that, man. Well, I can handle people telling me just about anything, but seeing it? I don't think so.

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_03] I find it fascinating. We had an emergent case the other night and left the room after they got prepped and came back in when they needed something. And the whole abdomen was cut open with intestines spilling all over the table. And we were like, oh, damn. That escalated.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_05] That escalated?

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_05] That's the standard response when someone sees someone's abdomen all over the place. You don't need to go to medical school to know that. So you're in therapy. You're not digging it. Did they ever give you a doctor? So you used the word disassociation. I think you might have used the other D word, which is depression. But did you ever get any diagnosis that you think is or was accurate?

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_03] I was diagnosed with severe depression and moderate to severe anxiety from my physician, which was accurate, is accurate. I had one therapist who I was like, when I'm having these conversations with you, I'm talking to you, but I don't really hear what I'm saying. And I'm seeing the room from above. And she was like, oh, that means they're dissociating. I was like, well, it's not really working because this session I'm not getting anything out of. So I wasn't given an official diagnosis for that, but I'm pretty sure that's what that was.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_05] Well, that's what that was. But what would we call it? What condition does one have when they dissociate?

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_03] I don't know. I think it was linked to depression and anxiety. Maybe anxiety in particular.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_05] So does that still happen sometimes?

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_03] Not very often. Now it's like, it's not as bad as it ever used to be. Like I learned a while back that my mom has dealt with that too. And she didn't realize she was dealing with it at the time either, because again, it has to do with like some memory loss as well. Because like when I was in that state, it was like not just stressful events that triggered it. Like there was a few times where there was just things we were doing in everyday life where like we'd walk out of a shop and I'd be like, what happened in there? Who do we talk to?

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_05] What if we buy? It's usually connected to trauma of some kind.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. I think it just started, everything was triggering, whatever. I don't like that word triggering. I don't know. I think it's overused.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_05] But did you have a major trauma?

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_03] From my behavior, one would think, but I can't remember anything. And my mom also doesn't remember anything from my childhood. Like I've always been super hypervigilant and not always super wary of men.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_04] I would be too. Yeah.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_03] We've always said like one would think I would have been like sexually assaulted or something, but I have no recollection of that. And she was always kept a really, really close eye on us as kids. So.

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_05] How many siblings do you have?

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_03] Two. I'm an older brother and a younger brother.

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_05] Have either of them ever struggled with this stuff?

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_03] You know, I don't talk to them about this stuff really, but from my outside perspective, I don't think so. But you also never know.

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_04] You never know. Right.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. Because they never knew with me. Now Levi, my older brother, I've told him some stuff, but I also don't tell him as much because I try to protect them a little bit because people don't like thinking about the people they care about, love with, and have lived with going through that and them not knowing.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. So when you were 14 and you did that, like you just went out, like you just did that. And then interesting for me to hear that someone gets pretty close and then they don't try again. And I'm not saying I'm like, I want to hear that they had multiple attempts. And the idea why it was that day and then now five years later or whatever, you still haven't tried again.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_03] I feel like I kind of hope something would just happen to me type of thing, you know, but I also have always been super self-aware to know that while I also just generally have depression, everything that I was going through at the time was situational. And that if that situation changed and I did something that I regretted or like did something that fucked myself up to where I was like not able to live a normal life, but survived that from something that was at the time kind of situational, which obviously I also hate

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_03] the thing where people are like, you know, it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. But just always been self-aware like that. Like I knew that there'd be something that I could regret. I don't know what, you know, what happens when you die, but if there's any sense of still having a soul or whatever, I feel like that's something I would, I knew it would, you know, hurt my family too. So, cause there was plenty of times where I wanted to before and after that.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_05] That's the stuff that stopped you?

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, probably. Also all my animals. I like had made a list one time of all the places my animals could go to, but like with my horse, he had so many specific problems that I didn't want him to go somewhere and have his life uprooted again. Cause it was when I got him. And so I didn't want to put him through that either. So.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_05] And suicide attempt survivors are so, or so is anyone that's so selfish.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. Right.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_05] Right. They don't think I met anything or anybody else. So you go through high school, you're on the government team or whatever it's called.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_03] The government team.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. That's what I'm calling it.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_03] Yes. I was on the government team.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_05] And you went to a few fancy conferences in downtown.

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_03] I did.

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_05] You're not like, I'm not talking to like the governor of Oklahoma now, am I?

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_03] No, I am. I always did that program because of the people. And I learned some really great like critical thinking skills and ways to have like productive arguments with people. And that's what I was there for, not for putting things on a resume or going into government.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_05] Interesting. Okay. So you never spend time in a hospital. Well, you do work in a hospital. Nope.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_03] I just, I just drive by the mental hospital on my way to work.

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_04] What does it look like?

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_03] Like, you know, you can't see it from the street because no one wants to see the mentally ill. There's like a big curving driveway up and then it's got a bunch of landscaping. And I don't know, but people who work there obviously are like, yeah, it's like a fucking prison.

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_05] Oh man. What's it called?

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_03] Laureate.

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_05] Laureate?

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_03] Mm-hmm.

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_05] No one wants to go there.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_03] No. They have another one too. I think Parkside.

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_05] That sounds like a mental institution.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, it really does. They really don't drive very hard.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_05] Do you think a lot of them do?

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_03] No, I don't know. I don't think that's their concern.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_05] Do you remember what you answered with my pink and purple pill question back in several months ago?

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_03] I think I said I would keep it, but like not like take it unless I like had a like terminal illness and they were going to like be like, oh no, you need to live until you die type of thing.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_05] Because I remember you said you weren't doing as well when we talked the first time.

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_03] Oh yeah. Did I?

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_05] I don't know. Well, no, I mean, it doesn't change the answer. It's just that you said yourself this conversation might be a little different just because you weren't doing as well and now you're doing a little better.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_03] Oh yeah. Yeah. I think I still said I would save it though at the time and I would still probably save it now because it feels like it has a lot of power.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_05] Definitely has a lot of power.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. Just hang on to it. I remember when you asked me last time, you asked me if I knew the question on, I recited almost exactly what you say in your podcast. I don't know if I could do it now.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_05] What's one other thing I always ask about just to prove that you actually listen?

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_03] Now you're putting me on the spot.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_05] Well, what's one thing that I do that I love?

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_03] Memoir titles.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_05] Thanks. See, now you are nailing it.

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_03] I thought it was going to be harder than that. No.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_05] This isn't an easy conversation. This isn't one of these things you learn at government camp for debate and critical thinking skills and persuasive rhetoric. This is easy. Did we have one for you?

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_03] I think you said grace on fire, but then it sounded like religious.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_05] Totally don't like it now.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_05] I have evolved also. I'm not the same person either, Grace.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_05] Grace on fire came out of my mouth?

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_05] But now you got a snake on your leg.

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_03] You know what I'm saying? I know. I think from the outside, like I give off a different vibe than like who I am, which I don't mind. I mean, I feel like it all fits together, but like I have a snake tattoo now, which I love and I have buzzed hair and like I don't fit people's gender norm ideas and I am a volunteer firefighter and I'm small and I think I throw people off. It's kind of amusing. Yeah. I don't know. I haven't thought of any good memoir title ideas.

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_05] I didn't expect you to be like thinking about it like a lot. You have a few people you talked to about it that you could, you said you had a few people that you told about it back then.

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_03] About the self-harm. And then I've mentioned the suicide stuff briefly because again, like I said, my parents kind of like bullied it out of me. I've talked to my roommate about it. Some I've mentioned it briefly.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, you don't live at home? You don't live with your parents now?

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_03] No, I don't. But I do live close enough to where I can still go steal food.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_05] Do you go by car or by horse?

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_03] We actually share a fence line. It's enough. Do you live in the barn? I like pay rent and stuff to live at the house next to my parents' property. Yeah. And that means that they are not on my ass all the time. They don't know when I, like they can know when I come and go if they want to sit and watch, but they don't have any say over it. And I also, I'm just not part of the household in that way. So it's a lot easier. My animals live over there. So I take care of my animals over there and I spend time with them. I enjoy my family for the most part, but when they get annoying, I can leave.

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_03] That's where the rent goes towards my sanity.

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_05] Right. Have you lost anyone's suicide? Friend or a family member?

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_03] Not that I know of. No, I don't think so. I mean, I know people who have attempted. It was when I was in middle school, late middle school, early high school, because at that point I had dealt with all this stuff with that neighbor. And so I kind of knew how to handle some of it. Not be like most people my age and just like flip the fuck out.

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_05] Wait, wait, wait. You think that changes when they get older?

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_03] No, that's so true. Actually.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_05] Totally. Totally.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_03] Everyone flips the fuck out. Oh, maybe middle schoolers are better at it.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_05] I think kids in some ways are better at some of those things. Yeah.

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. It's like a part of you that has happened in your life, whether you've attempted or you've thought about it or whatever. And it's like this dark cloud that follows you and like you tell the wrong people and people form these ideas about you. Right. And you're like, fuck, dude. Oh, you're crazy. We got to watch you. Only crazy people would do that. And you're like, okay, I'm crazy then.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_04] Call me crazy.

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_05] Memoir saddle? No.

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_03] It's up there though. I mean, it's better than anything else.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_05] You were about, you were thinking the same thing?

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. I mean, now we've, now we've brought it into the discussion, everything we say.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_05] Call me crazy. You know, there's a couple of questions that I don't think I asked you. I feel like they knew were on the list. Have you ever, or would you ever call 988?

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_03] I have. I'm trying to remember if I ever called it on behalf of myself. I mean, it was sort of on behalf of myself, but like, it's because I was running out of like what to do with that neighbor. I called it a few times and talked to them. And actually some of them were very kind and very helpful.

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_00] Good.

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_03] Honestly, there wasn't any like terrible experience I had. We did get disconnected one time because of bad self-service. And then like, you know, couldn't get them back on the phone type of thing. And I did do like email with a lady for a while talking about my stuff. They were, they were nice. It didn't solve anything, but it gave me an outlet a little bit. And they couldn't do anything anyway because they, I mean, if they wanted to, they could track my IP address and find me, but they didn't do that. I didn't give personal information. They didn't know how old I was. So they didn't know that I was a minor. Like I was able to have better conversations.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_03] I won't say that they were, they weren't unhelpful. I wouldn't say that, you know, I fixed everything obviously, but it was like when I wasn't sure what to do, it gave me at least someone to talk to. And sometimes they have like a suggestion or like one lady helped me find some facilities nearby that if I wanted to refer my friend and see if they wanted to go and talk to someone, like I could help them have those resources.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_05] I haven't heard of an email text. I know about it. I don't know about it.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_03] Text, email, lots of options.

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_05] As somebody who has been through it and who's just sort of worked on the other side of it, what are, what are some of the bigger myths that you want to dispel, if any?

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_03] I guess like, like I was talking about earlier, like the idea that people who have attempted or want to or plan to or cut, like not crazy. When people think of someone who's attempted suicide, they think of someone with crazy eyes and long hair locked in a cage. Yeah.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_05] Like just movies stuff.

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. That kind of thing where you tell someone that and they kind of withdraw. You're like, oh, because I bite. Like, you know, people in my department have said, yeah, be careful on suicide attempt calls. Like if they'll kill themselves, they don't care about your life. That's not true.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_04] It's not at all true. I wonder where people get that from.

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_03] They don't know because I mean, okay, murder suicides.

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_05] Well, no, no, but a murder suicide isn't usually murdering a stranger. I don't see, I don't know if there's any correlation to somebody who's suicidal being dangerous. I mean, yes, if somebody's struggling and then you're going to like tackle them, they might fight back.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_03] Right. But I don't like if you try to pull some off the edge of a bridge and they grabbed on you, if you both fall over. But like, then like when people say that, it's like, you know, you're hesitant to say actually, blah, blah, blah. Because then they're like, oh, well, have you tried to kill yourself? And you're like, okay, well, it got really awkward now. Moving on.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_05] Now, my other question that I don't usually ask or actually just started asking, don't know why I just added it because I was just curious about people's thoughts on it was assisted suicide.

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_03] I mean, I think it's a great option. And I think that honestly, healthcare tries too hard to preserve life in ways that are unfair to people. And the fact that you can't make a decision that you're ready to just not live and be helped with that. I think that's kind of wild because like, I mean, if you're an adult with autonomy of your body, you should get to decide. Sure. Will it hurt people? Sure. But it hurts people anyway when people die. Like, it's like you see all these people and who are incapacitated and not able to make their decisions with their families, doing all these things to keep them alive when they need to die.

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_03] Like their body is dying. And I think it's a waste of medical use too, not because those people aren't valuable because they don't, they don't want to be there. I feel like it's pretty straightforward. If someone doesn't want to be there, if they want to die and their family's making these decisions for to keep them alive against their wishes, because that happens all the time, unethical and using resources that could keep someone alive who wants to be alive.

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_05] I mean, there are a lot of people that there, it is sort of a temporary thing and they're just freaking out and having a terrible month. Someone who's for a decade been suffering, right? Right. There's some new ones. Yeah.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_03] Well, but you know, you're told you have stage four something cancer that you're going to die and you're going to suffer while you die. I would rather not have my family see me that way and suffering because that leads to the mark too. So.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, for sure. Did they, it didn't, when we first talked or when, or right now, did you tell anybody that you were going to do a podcast like this?

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_03] I had told my roommate last time because I wanted the house and today I just texted her and made sure she wasn't going to be home and, um, cause I told her I had a virtual appointment. I didn't tell her anything else. Right.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_05] Well, no, no, no. A virtual appointment is not saying that I'm going to talk to someone about suicide.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_03] No, no, no. I just wanted to make sure I had the house to myself.

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_05] Will you listen to this when it comes out? Cause Sean won't fuck it up this time.

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_03] Probably.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_05] You will. You'll be okay hearing your voice.

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, I think so. I think I know what I sound like. I mean, I listened to my other one that you sent me before it disappeared into the note.

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_04] What else do you want to talk about?

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_03] My corgi is sitting next to the couch looking at me.

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_04] So we got a dog. Got it.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_03] Yes. I have three dogs that are mine.

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_04] What kind of dogs are they?

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_03] I have a older, like lab Dane hound mutt. She's 10. She looks like she's seven though, because she doesn't have a single gray hair on her, which is really weird actually.

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_00] Like me. Sure.

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_03] If you had a full head of hair, it would be. And then I've got the corgi Aussie. She's half and half. I just call her corgi because that's what she looks like. I have a half Kangol, half Great Dane Mastiff puppy who's going to be my guard dog.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_05] So they're all, wait, so this is interesting. They're all halves, right?

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_03] Yep.

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_05] Do you know what else is a half?

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_03] What?

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_05] You're just going to start a ton. I just crushed it. I just crushed it. I should retire right now.

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_03] No, you should start doing comedy right now. I thought I was.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_05] I thought I was already doing comedy. What are we doing here? What kind of show is this?

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_03] No, this is comedy show.

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, man. You're not supposed to laugh when you're talking about suicide, Grace. Damn it.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_03] Who makes these rules though?

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_05] That's the question I'm always asking. Do you ever, but like these days or like let's say 2026, the past year or so, like do you ideate ever?

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, I will. It's more passing usually. And I also kind of know that there's like, I'm not really going to.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_05] Wait, hold up. It looks like Grace is getting a call.

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_03] We got toned out to something and I was looking to see if anyone's actually going to it. It's a medical, so we won't typically, but sometimes people will.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_05] Nobody's ever had to leave in the middle of an interview due to a medical thing for their work.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_03] Well, not everyone is a volunteer firefighter, Sean.

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_05] That's right. Not everybody's a comedian. So back to where I think we got cut off a little bit on the ideating.

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, I would say like there's times, there's days. I notice a lot of times it's like, you know, but I'm tired and like everything. I'm just mad at everything. It's not even like, I don't know, like me throwing a tantrum exactly. But in my mind, it's just kind of like, well, fuck this. Like, or if I have to get up early in the morning, I hate getting up early in the morning. I'm like, rather die. I don't know. I think my mom and I are both that way, actually. I think she's had some ideation that she wouldn't necessarily label that way, but it's just been normal for her throughout her life.

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_03] So I'm going to blame her for all of my problems.

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_05] I love when kids do that, right?

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_03] Medically.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_05] I mean, well, there is a connection to the two of you. Yeah, there is.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_03] She's had depression too.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_05] So you've talked to your mom about that?

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. We're a lot closer now that I don't live with her.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_05] What about your dad? Does he struggle with any of this though?

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_03] I think anxiety. I don't know. I've stolen some of his Trazodone for my dog before the vet visits before. So I know that he struggles with something.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_05] No one's suggesting anyone steal Trazodone. Just that's what Grace chose to do.

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_03] It was for use for my dog who needed to take a chill pill literally before she went to the vet.

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_05] And nobody's giving vet advice here either?

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_03] No, we're not.

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_05] By the way, vets have a high suicide rate.

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_03] They do. They have a really high suicide rate.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_05] When someone first told me that I thought it was about veterans, which is also true, but like, no, veterinarians.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. No, it is. Especially small animal veterinarians.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_05] Wow. What are your thoughts on assisted suicide? Do you think that should be okay in some form?

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. I don't know who gets to make those rules, right?

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_05] We're going back to the rule makers again. These aren't questions that came up at government camp?

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_03] We didn't talk about suicide that much. But you know what's funny is one person who I've ever had noticed that I was not acting quote unquote normal.

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_03] Was like a kid that I went to some of the conferences in North Carolina with. I was at our state conference and we were talking and he said, at our last conference, you wanted to kill yourself, didn't you? What the fuck? Like, it took me, it took me aback. But it felt really good to be like noticed because most of the time everyone's like suffering in silence. He didn't even say anything at the time, but I could like, he was always like there and supportive and whatnot. And so I'm looking back, you know, he did notice, obviously.

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_05] But no, no, but noticing someone said and saying, hey, the last conference, you seem really down or depressed is different than saying you wanted to kill yourself.

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. No, he nailed it though.

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_05] But so was that around the time you tried to kill yourself?

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_03] I hadn't attempted, but that one of those conferences, I was like struggling a lot. And so I didn't attempt, but if I had the means, I probably would have.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_05] So you're not a particularly good masker.

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_03] I am because no one else knew except for that week I let down my guard because I wasn't at home and I wasn't worried about my parents knowing. So hold on one second. This radio is about to kick back on. I'm going to mute myself first.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_05] I'm talking to a firefighter. Of course I'm going to wait. I got to work on my comedy routine while you do it. When do you turn 19?

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_03] October 9th.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_05] What does that make you in terms of astrology?

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_03] Oh, Libra. I was like, in terms of what?

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_05] Is that good? Do we like Libras?

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_03] I mean, I feel like we should because I am one.

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_05] It's up to you.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_03] I don't like myself fine most of the time.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_04] All right, Libras.

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_03] Probably not in my deepest, darkest hours or whatever when I actually think about it, but 821 is rock station.

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_00] Shut the fuck up.

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_03] I don't work.

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_05] You're hearing a live call from a fire department in Oklahoma. On the Suicide Noted podcast. Unless Grace definitively tells me I may not use it, I am using it.

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_03] No, you can keep it in. I don't mind.

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_05] Get back on the goddamn walkie-talkie, whatever the hell it is.

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_03] I don't have anything to say to them. All I told them is I'm going to the station.

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_05] Is that what you're doing next?

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. See, he's stealing the trucks that I can drive because he's not very nice.

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_05] There's no emergency happening. It's just people talking about logistics and things.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_03] Well, we're going to a medical call, so we have to go to the station and get a truck and then go.

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_05] Right now, you're going to go to a medical call. You don't know what you're facing. It could be a big deal. Maybe not. I don't know what it is.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_03] EMS needed us. It's probably just like a fat person that needs help.

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_05] But you do this for no money.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_03] We actually do get paid per call a little bit here, but we're still considered volunteer because we're not hired. So we make $15 a call.

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_05] So you're not technically a volunteer?

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_03] No, we're considered volunteer.

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_05] I don't understand how you're a volunteer if you're getting some money.

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_03] I don't know. That's how they consider it because we are not hired by anybody.

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_05] Do you know who is a volunteer?

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_03] 821 is about four minutes out.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_05] Can I not tell you, can it not be Grace in Oklahoma and just be 821 in Oklahoma, please?

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_03] You can do that. I'm done with that.

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_05] No, I was just saying that I'm also kind of a volunteer is what I was saying.

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_03] Hey, I think I donated $25, so you're actually paid by me.

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_05] You did, and I appreciate that. And right, we get some donations. We're wrapping up. Grace has got to go put out a fire or help some person be better and do her job and help them grow the better place and go to the firehouse and show the guys.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_03] What sucks is that I'm wearing Crocs.

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_05] You better change them.

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_03] They canceled us. Yeah. Accidental alarm. It's an accidental alarm.

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_00] 9-0-4-8-28-21. Cops canceled direct.

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_05] Those are voices in the field in Oklahoma, y'all. Damn.

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_03] And then when you get on that, I will tell you that these people will never listen to this podcast because mental health isn't even a concept in their brain vocabulary.

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_05] You don't know who's struggling. You don't talk about it. You don't know who's struggling deep down. You don't know.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_03] I'm just telling you, this guy, he could be struggling. He probably is struggling with a bunch of stuff. Oh, you never know. He might. He's getting it on and listening to a podcast.

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_05] I'm going to get sued now because he's going to hear his voice, but he didn't give me permission.

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_03] Well, he won't notice his voice because that sounds like every other Oklahoma rancher.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. You're right. It does.

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_03] Especially over the radio.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_05] But your voice or your, excuse me, something about your register changed a tiny bit when you got on that call. It's a little more business, Grace.

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_03] I try to talk quietly. I don't know. I try to talk quietly because it comes through really clear when you're holding the thing really close to your face.

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_05] Right, right, right, right, right, right. It would be kind of cool if the style of this podcast was speaking in that way. Yeah. But not only through a radio, but the way it's done, like the language and the-

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_00] Oh, yeah.

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_05] Jack22, you've been a suicide attempt survivor, right? I don't even know. A2145.

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, you're getting there.

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_05] You just put some numbers and letters together.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_03] Essentially.

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_05] Essentially. Some combination of the two and you're a volunteer firefighter in the Midwest.

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_03] I like listening in on the radio to all the other departments and EMS and police around us because you can hear them all.

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, wow.

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_03] And they have really fun conversations sometimes.

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_04] I bet most of them are.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_03] Mostly it's our department that's a laughingstock on the radio.

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_05] Uh-huh. But still boring mostly, I'm sure. So you don't have to go to work or you are? What are we doing?

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_03] Well, I'm going to go to the station, make a report, put our numbers down so that they know who was going to attend.

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, okay. We got... All right. Is there anything you need to talk about? Go work.

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_03] It's not work. It's a volunteer.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_05] I understand. But do you want to share anything else?

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_03] I don't think so. You know, we talked about my dogs. So that's pretty much everything.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_05] That's what most listeners tune into. That's what they want. All right. Listen, have a good day. Thanks for reconnecting. I appreciate your time. Go put out some fires or fill out some reports or go on your walkie-talkie and have a decent day.

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_03] Bye.

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_05] As always, thanks so much for listening and all of your support. Special thanks to Grace in Oklahoma. Thanks, Grace. If you are a suicide attempt survivor or ideator and you'd like to talk, please reach out. Hello at suicidenoted.com. If you are incredibly wealthy and you'd like to donate, tax deductible, of course, please follow the link, donorbox.com slash a bunch of words. If you are not that, that's cool. Keep listening. I hope. And that's all for this week's episode. Stay strong.

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_05] Do the best you can. I'll talk to you soon.