Ash in California

[00:00:00] Hey there, my name is Sean and this is Suicide Noted.

[00:00:45] On this podcast I talk with suicide attempt survivors so that we can hear their stories.

[00:00:50] Every year around the world, millions of people try to take their own lives and we almost never

[00:00:54] talk about it.

[00:00:55] We certainly don't talk about it enough and when we do talk about it many of us, including

[00:00:59] me, we are not very good at it.

[00:01:02] So one of my goals with this podcast is to have more conversations and hopefully better

[00:01:06] conversations with attempt survivors in large part to help more people in more places

[00:01:11] feel a little less shitty and a little less alone.

[00:01:14] I hope we've been doing that.

[00:01:15] Now if you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk please reach out

[00:01:19] Hello at SuicideNoted.com on Facebook or Twitter slash X at Suicide Noted.

[00:01:25] Of course you can reach out if you have a question or a comment or to share anything

[00:01:29] else even if you don't want to be a guest and if you'd like to learn more about the

[00:01:33] podcast check the show notes.

[00:01:35] You can find all kinds of cool things there including our membership and a friendly reminder

[00:01:40] I know I say this a lot if you rate and review Suicide Noted it helps people

[00:01:45] find the podcast.

[00:01:46] It really does.

[00:01:47] And of course that's what we want.

[00:01:48] We want more people to hear it if they need to hear it and in order to hear it they need

[00:01:53] to find it.

[00:01:54] Finally we are talking about suicide on this podcast we do not hold back so please take

[00:01:57] that into account before you listen or as you listen but I do hope you listen because

[00:02:02] there is so much to learn.

[00:02:04] Today I am talking with Ash.

[00:02:06] Ash lives in California and she is a suicide attempt survivor.

[00:02:15] Hey Ash.

[00:02:17] Hello.

[00:02:18] What's going on?

[00:02:19] Not much.

[00:02:20] Yeah another day right?

[00:02:21] Yeah pretty much.

[00:02:24] Thanks for joining me I really appreciate it.

[00:02:26] Yeah.

[00:02:27] California?

[00:02:28] Yep.

[00:02:29] Got a nice floral kind of painting behind you.

[00:02:32] Yeah it's a flower.

[00:02:35] Black and white okay.

[00:02:37] You've heard the podcast?

[00:02:38] I have.

[00:02:39] I've listened to quite a few episodes actually.

[00:02:42] Is that right?

[00:02:43] Kind of wish you didn't want to listen to them or want to even or not to feel

[00:02:48] the need to even talk about it but here we are I mean it is what it is right?

[00:02:51] Yeah exactly.

[00:02:52] Now you know if you hear the podcast I sometimes struggle with how I end episodes and sometimes

[00:02:59] also how I begin them because I can start in so many places.

[00:03:04] So let me do this.

[00:03:05] Where do you want to start?

[00:03:07] Oh he's putting Ash on the spot.

[00:03:09] Tough one.

[00:03:10] I know.

[00:03:11] Oh wow.

[00:03:12] Well usually how I hear you start of course how I found the podcast.

[00:03:17] I love it.

[00:03:18] I love it.

[00:03:19] Pray tell.

[00:03:21] Just like you know the majority of everybody else I was searching for the word suicide

[00:03:28] in iTunes podcast chat area.

[00:03:32] I just found it.

[00:03:34] It was probably one of the first ones that actually popped up for me and started listening

[00:03:38] and I was like wow you know I didn't expect there to be as many people to

[00:03:45] have the same ideas as me or like life that I kind of had and it surprised me that there

[00:03:53] was that many people.

[00:03:54] But it sounds like when you say surprise given that you reached out and were talking

[00:03:58] it was not a bad surprise.

[00:04:00] Yeah you know it made me feel not so alone.

[00:04:02] It made me realize that there are other people out there struggling like me and

[00:04:06] that like I said I'm not so alone.

[00:04:09] You used the past tense.

[00:04:10] You said something about I think it was ideas I had.

[00:04:13] Does that mean you're in the clear now and you're good or are you still struggling?

[00:04:17] There's days I struggle.

[00:04:18] In the present tense right now I've been doing actually pretty good.

[00:04:24] Pretty good is pretty good.

[00:04:25] Yeah exactly.

[00:04:27] Simple words from a simple man.

[00:04:30] Simple bald man.

[00:04:31] So you found the podcast why did you want to share what you've gone through with

[00:04:36] a lot of other people in other places.

[00:04:39] Because if my story can help one person then it's been worth it.

[00:04:44] I'm about helping people.

[00:04:45] I'm a paramedic that's what I do is I help people.

[00:04:48] I think in a parallel universe I was a paramedic.

[00:04:51] I love my job.

[00:04:52] Love it.

[00:04:53] I think that would have been a good calling for me.

[00:04:56] What do you love about it?

[00:04:57] I love of course being able to help people.

[00:05:00] I love that it's not a monotonous everything is the same over and over.

[00:05:06] Everything is so different and every patient is a puzzle.

[00:05:09] I got to figure out what's wrong with them in order to treat them.

[00:05:13] How long you been doing that?

[00:05:15] I've been a paramedic now for 13 years and I've been in EMS or in the emergency

[00:05:23] services field for 20 years going on 21.

[00:05:28] So you have undoubtedly in more than 20 years seen your share of suicide attempts.

[00:05:36] Yes.

[00:05:37] If I may, I'd like to ask you, this is a tough one.

[00:05:40] Sometimes it's such just because I can't quite find the right words.

[00:05:43] I'm trying to gauge what's that like but that's too broad of a question because

[00:05:46] each person is different.

[00:05:47] You're trying to ask what it's like but not in a way of what it's like.

[00:05:55] Are suicide attempt survivors when you find them, discover them, help them, treat them,

[00:06:00] does it feel different than maybe some others?

[00:06:03] Does it feel more extreme?

[00:06:04] You know, when you see the survivors, you get a wide range of emotions.

[00:06:11] I guess it would be.

[00:06:12] You get the ones that are relieved that you got to them in time and they're like,

[00:06:18] yeah, I wanted help.

[00:06:20] And you get the ones that are upset and mad that truly wanted to die, are angry with you.

[00:06:27] We're going to get to your how many attempts do you have?

[00:06:29] Two serious ones and then like a whole bunch of what I call half ass attempts.

[00:06:35] Oh, the old half-assed ones.

[00:06:36] Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[00:06:38] Yeah.

[00:06:38] Of the two serious ones, were you for either of those more the person who was

[00:06:44] relieved or more angry-ish, I wanted to die, leave me alone?

[00:06:49] On the first attempt, I actually got scared and went into my doctor's office and I was kind of relieved that I did.

[00:07:00] Then the doctor's office sent me to the ER and it was a whole big, big deal.

[00:07:05] Second one, I went in, it was more of a relief.

[00:07:11] Whether it was a quote unquote half-ass one or not, when was your most recent attempt?

[00:07:15] I think it was last year.

[00:07:17] Okay.

[00:07:17] And when was your first attempt?

[00:07:20] The serious one would have been 2017.

[00:07:26] So both of your serious attempts, you are a total adult, grown up.

[00:07:31] Yep.

[00:07:32] Did you have any of those other non-quote serious ones earlier in your life?

[00:07:37] I had the half-assed ones.

[00:07:40] I had some in the teenage years.

[00:07:42] You did?

[00:07:42] High school.

[00:07:44] So are you from California?

[00:07:45] No, I was actually born and raised in Wyoming.

[00:07:48] Yet moved to Wisconsin for about 10 years and then moved to California.

[00:07:54] You and your family decided to not live in states that start with W obviously.

[00:08:00] I actually moved on my own.

[00:08:02] I moved to Wisconsin for a paramedic school.

[00:08:05] Okay.

[00:08:06] Spayed there for a while and then after my big attempt, needed a change and moved to California.

[00:08:15] What's life like in Wyoming for you growing up?

[00:08:17] It was rough.

[00:08:19] Young years, I had some sexual assaults.

[00:08:24] I had some abuse, emotional mental abuse by family members.

[00:08:30] I was bullied in high school.

[00:08:32] I was bullied in elementary school as young as elementary school.

[00:08:35] So I was bullied very young.

[00:08:37] But it was high school that I started cutting and that was my stress relief.

[00:08:45] That was how I dealt with everything.

[00:08:48] Freshman or sophomore year, I started doing small little half ass overdoses.

[00:08:53] The half ass thing is getting to me.

[00:08:54] I like it.

[00:08:56] Someone's going to email me like how dare you use it.

[00:08:58] I knew that as she used it, leave me alone.

[00:09:01] I'm using it.

[00:09:02] Leave me alone.

[00:09:02] That's her.

[00:09:03] That's her wording.

[00:09:04] Those are her wording.

[00:09:05] It's her life.

[00:09:06] She gets to say what she wants to say.

[00:09:07] I'm not about any of this language policing will cancel culture anything, baby.

[00:09:11] You do whatever you want.

[00:09:13] So at that time when you do these mini overdoses, you want to die?

[00:09:18] Some of them.

[00:09:19] Yes.

[00:09:20] Yeah, but I'm young and dumb and I think taking five extra whatever is going to actually do something.

[00:09:31] Yeah.

[00:09:31] I mean obviously upon reflection it was never going to do anything, but that doesn't even matter.

[00:09:35] It's like what was the intention?

[00:09:37] Yeah, I did.

[00:09:39] You know, I did and I was I was tired of everything.

[00:09:43] I will ask you this probably again, particularly with respect to the more serious attempts, but you sitting here today.

[00:09:50] Are you glad none of those overdoses worked?

[00:09:53] As I sit here today right now, I am glad that none of them weren't.

[00:09:57] Sounds like there were more than a few.

[00:09:59] Probably a good number.

[00:10:01] Yeah.

[00:10:01] And this is like going from starting in freshman year and then kind of continuing through high school.

[00:10:06] Yeah.

[00:10:06] Yeah.

[00:10:07] Going I don't know you went to paramedic school right after high school.

[00:10:10] Oh, no.

[00:10:10] I went to paramedic school in my late 20s.

[00:10:13] Okay.

[00:10:14] I became an EMT when I was 18.

[00:10:17] I was still in high school.

[00:10:19] Wow, that's amazing.

[00:10:20] When you finish high school EMT and then into your 20s EMT-ing in Wyoming and other things part of your life stuff just the thing.

[00:10:30] Yeah.

[00:10:30] Sight a little bit.

[00:10:31] Did they get any better?

[00:10:32] Did they get worse?

[00:10:33] They actually got worse.

[00:10:35] I had undiagnosed mental illness and things just got worse until finally somebody's like you need to go see your doctor and see about, you know, getting on meds or something like that.

[00:10:47] So you went to a doctor or a psychiatrist?

[00:10:50] I went to my general practitioner and got put on meds.

[00:10:54] And that was when my medication spiral began because it took a very long time for med management to work.

[00:11:04] I think I am just now getting a good combination of medications.

[00:11:09] That's over 20 years.

[00:11:11] Yes.

[00:11:12] There's a lot of people no doubt who start on meds and it just takes too long.

[00:11:17] Yes, it took forever.

[00:11:19] Yeah.

[00:11:19] And I'm not pointing fingers here because it is complicated.

[00:11:21] It's just a shame.

[00:11:22] So things are not getting any better in your 20s.

[00:11:25] You're out there saving lives I might add.

[00:11:27] So when you go to your doctor you get the meds in an effort to feel better.

[00:11:31] Did they diagnose you with anything?

[00:11:33] And then the part two of that is do you think they were right?

[00:11:35] Initially I was diagnosed with just depression.

[00:11:38] Here take these meds you'll feel better.

[00:11:41] I took the meds.

[00:11:42] I didn't feel better.

[00:11:43] The first meds actually made me more suicidal.

[00:11:46] I went back.

[00:11:47] I got put on a different medication.

[00:11:49] It didn't make me feel better.

[00:11:50] So I stopped taking them because I felt did not feel better.

[00:11:55] So in my late teens early 20s medication was rough for me.

[00:12:01] Then as I moved to Wisconsin and went back to a doctor to get put back on medication

[00:12:07] because I wasn't doing well and paramedic school was stressful.

[00:12:12] I went and saw an actual psychiatrist and I got diagnosed with severe depression OCD

[00:12:19] and PTSD and I agree with them.

[00:12:24] Yeah.

[00:12:25] By the way, did you go to Wisconsin because they have like the best paramedic school?

[00:12:28] You just wanted out of Wyoming.

[00:12:29] Wyoming didn't offer a paramedic school at the time.

[00:12:32] Nothing in the entire state of Wyoming?

[00:12:35] Nothing in the entire state of Wyoming.

[00:12:36] They do now, but when I was ready to go to paramedic school they had nothing.

[00:12:41] So I was going to have to move somewhere and I had a friend in Wisconsin who wanted

[00:12:45] to go to paramedic school with me.

[00:12:48] So you get the training all the while.

[00:12:51] Do you have these mini overdoses anything like that?

[00:12:55] Are you ideating?

[00:12:57] What's that all about?

[00:12:58] What's that like?

[00:12:59] I'm working as an EMT.

[00:13:01] I'm in classes.

[00:13:02] I'm getting my associate's degree along with my paramedic.

[00:13:05] I'm ideating.

[00:13:07] I'm still cutting.

[00:13:08] I'm still doing small little overdoses.

[00:13:12] Yeah, it's still a rough time.

[00:13:15] Are you when you say the small overdoses are you starting to do a little more than

[00:13:18] just a little?

[00:13:19] Are you changing it?

[00:13:20] Yeah.

[00:13:21] You know naturally if X doesn't work you do X plus Y or you try Z.

[00:13:24] Yeah.

[00:13:25] You play around.

[00:13:25] Yeah.

[00:13:26] Any of them land you in a hospital?

[00:13:28] No, it wasn't until 2017 that I ended up in the ICU actually.

[00:13:33] From what you shared given just you know in the 10 minutes we've been talking

[00:13:37] I'm going to say something that may not make the podcast because I do edit some.

[00:13:41] I'm kind of surprised and don't take this the wrong way.

[00:13:43] I hope that it was only 2017 was your first serious one.

[00:13:47] You know, I'm kind of surprised too.

[00:13:49] I honestly am.

[00:13:50] So you're just you're just kind of dealing with it as best you can.

[00:13:53] And you're just like I'll fucking get through the day.

[00:13:55] Yeah.

[00:13:56] Yeah, I may end up sick and just blame it on oh, yeah, I'm just not feeling

[00:14:00] well or just make it through the day.

[00:14:02] For years.

[00:14:03] Yep.

[00:14:04] Are you anything like me where like you're going through that and I'm not

[00:14:06] comparing just hey struggle is struggle and where like people be like

[00:14:09] how are you and you want to be like that's a dumb fucking question

[00:14:12] get away from me.

[00:14:13] You like that or is that just me?

[00:14:14] Yeah, I'm like that.

[00:14:16] They hang out in the Midwest long enough.

[00:14:17] You know you get good at probably I'm fine.

[00:14:19] I'm good.

[00:14:19] That's a Midwestern thing for sure.

[00:14:21] Yes.

[00:14:22] I don't know but it's a Wyoming thing.

[00:14:23] Yeah, definitely is.

[00:14:25] Are you alone?

[00:14:26] You have somebody in the house?

[00:14:27] No, I have a friend here.

[00:14:31] They can hear you.

[00:14:32] Yeah.

[00:14:32] Yeah talking about suicide.

[00:14:34] Yeah.

[00:14:35] Well, that's a good friend.

[00:14:35] Hey friend.

[00:14:38] She knows.

[00:14:39] Cool.

[00:14:40] Now I feel a little more pressure like I got more of an audience.

[00:14:44] It's usually just one-on-one and then I blast it out and I don't know.

[00:14:46] Here's it.

[00:14:47] You know some people here we know that so you go to Wisconsin.

[00:14:51] I go for paramedic school.

[00:14:53] They offer an associate's degree in paramedic technology.

[00:14:56] I go from my associate's degree mainly because my parents nobody in my immediate family went

[00:15:03] to college and it's important to them that I get a degree.

[00:15:06] And why do you leave Wisconsin?

[00:15:08] I left Wisconsin after my attempt because I needed a change.

[00:15:13] And when was the attempt?

[00:15:14] March 2017.

[00:15:16] So what changes if anything that starts to get this thing moving in that direction?

[00:15:21] I think it was just early 2017 that things just started not going well.

[00:15:27] The PTSD was going certain act up.

[00:15:31] My OCD was bad.

[00:15:33] The depression was bad.

[00:15:34] Everything was bad.

[00:15:36] And you didn't have your friend who's with you today?

[00:15:38] No, no, I didn't meet her until I was in California for three years.

[00:15:44] Are you doing most of this as you're struggling early 2017?

[00:15:49] Are you mostly alone?

[00:15:50] Yeah.

[00:15:51] Mostly.

[00:15:52] If anybody were in your life, if anybody saw you then and they knew you, they knew you,

[00:15:58] they'd be like I feel like Ash isn't doing as well as I saw her last time.

[00:16:02] No, because I would hide it.

[00:16:04] How would you do that?

[00:16:06] I put on what I call the mask and especially like at work and I can hide it.

[00:16:13] I can hide certain things very well.

[00:16:16] Talk about a learned skill, right?

[00:16:18] Yes.

[00:16:19] So you are the person who says I'm fine.

[00:16:21] How are you?

[00:16:22] I mean, I'm not judging it.

[00:16:24] That's absolutely me.

[00:16:25] Yeah.

[00:16:26] Yeah, absolutely not me.

[00:16:27] I wish I were more like you.

[00:16:29] We know where this is going obviously no surprises there.

[00:16:31] Take us to that day or that week.

[00:16:33] However, you want to sort of talk about it.

[00:16:36] What I did is that night.

[00:16:37] I took a lot of pills.

[00:16:41] I woke up the next morning and took more.

[00:16:44] I took probably 300 pills.

[00:16:46] How are you here?

[00:16:48] I don't know.

[00:16:49] No divine intervention maybe or luck or what do you think?

[00:16:53] Luck.

[00:16:54] Okay.

[00:16:55] I went into my doctor's office and told them what happened.

[00:16:59] They sent me across the hall to the ER and then they sent me to a different hospital

[00:17:04] that had an ICU.

[00:17:06] So you walked or drove to the doctor.

[00:17:08] Yep.

[00:17:08] I was in ICU for two days and then they asked me do you want to go to the mental health?

[00:17:16] So they were going to give me an option.

[00:17:18] Interesting.

[00:17:19] And I was like, you're not going to make me.

[00:17:21] I'm probably not going to go but there was a lady who was a sitter there because I had

[00:17:27] to be under observation and she's like explaining what would happen if I went and

[00:17:33] she talked me into going and I'm glad she did because had she not my liver enzymes

[00:17:39] went back up and I needed more treatment.

[00:17:42] So you stayed in that hospital longer or you got that kind of care in the other hospital?

[00:17:46] I stayed at that hospital longer.

[00:17:48] So you got that taken care of.

[00:17:50] And then the mental health unit was part of that hospital and I just moved over to

[00:17:55] that unit.

[00:17:56] How long were you there for?

[00:17:58] A little over a week.

[00:18:00] You know where these questions are going and they're not loaded.

[00:18:03] How was it?

[00:18:03] You know, it was actually a good experience for me.

[00:18:08] The staff treated me well.

[00:18:10] They were truly interested in how I felt and getting me back on my feet.

[00:18:17] Very cool.

[00:18:18] Then you leave come back home and at some point not that long after you take a flight

[00:18:23] with your shit to California.

[00:18:24] I actually drove cross-country.

[00:18:26] Oh my bad, right?

[00:18:28] If is there a reason you chose that part of the country?

[00:18:30] I had a friend that lived in Wisconsin who was from this area.

[00:18:35] She moved back to California and kept trying to get me to move out here.

[00:18:41] And finally, it's like, okay, I'll do it.

[00:18:44] And you did it in 2017?

[00:18:46] Yes.

[00:18:47] I know all the states are very, very different.

[00:18:49] Tough question.

[00:18:50] Do you have a favorite state among California, Wisconsin and Wyoming?

[00:18:54] Each has their own beauty.

[00:18:57] As for seasons, Wisconsin has the most beautiful seasonal changes.

[00:19:03] Wyoming has beautiful sunsets and beautiful country.

[00:19:09] California has beautiful weather in the winter.

[00:19:13] Especially in the winter.

[00:19:14] Are we not going to talk about the beautiful cowboys of Wyoming?

[00:19:16] Is that not part of this conversation?

[00:19:18] You kidding me?

[00:19:20] But the name of the school is the Wyoming Cowboys also.

[00:19:23] So you're like, you know, it is literally the mascot.

[00:19:26] So like don't hate.

[00:19:27] No hate.

[00:19:28] No hate.

[00:19:29] Who has time for that?

[00:19:30] So when you settle in California, it's probably pretty easy for you to get jobs, right?

[00:19:34] Given your work.

[00:19:35] Oh, yeah.

[00:19:36] Yeah.

[00:19:36] I moved out here with a job.

[00:19:38] Yeah.

[00:19:39] Between 2017 and 2023 when you had your second series stamp, are there any of those like mini attempts?

[00:19:45] Because at this point, you've gotten pretty good at the OD thing.

[00:19:47] I realize you didn't die, but you know, you went from new pills to 300 pills.

[00:19:51] So this is like different.

[00:19:52] Yeah.

[00:19:53] No, there weren't any of the smaller ones.

[00:19:57] There was some cutting and stuff like that.

[00:20:00] But no, no little overdoses.

[00:20:03] Does COVID play into this conversation with respect to what happened in 2023?

[00:20:08] I think it does.

[00:20:09] I think the isolation.

[00:20:11] So your paramedics are what's the category of work during COVID?

[00:20:16] The essential workers.

[00:20:17] So you were out in the field doing work during that whole time?

[00:20:20] Yes.

[00:20:21] Did something happen during that time that leads to 2023?

[00:20:25] Is it like 17 where it just starts to add up?

[00:20:27] You know, it just starts to get more and more and more until it's too much.

[00:20:30] I just think it just got more and more and more built up and it happened.

[00:20:35] Same method?

[00:20:36] Yes.

[00:20:37] Did you ever think about using another method?

[00:20:38] I'm not encouraging.

[00:20:40] I'm just curious.

[00:20:42] No, I never have.

[00:20:44] What happened on that day?

[00:20:46] Kind of the same thing, but it happened during the day instead of overnight.

[00:20:50] Took a whole bunch of pills, went in, same thing, ended up in the hospital.

[00:20:56] But a different hospital this time?

[00:20:57] Yeah.

[00:20:58] Decent experience?

[00:20:59] No, this time I went into inpatient and it was horrible.

[00:21:06] It was a horrible experience.

[00:21:09] They didn't seem to care about you.

[00:21:11] They would do group sessions, but they didn't help.

[00:21:16] It's like everybody that works there just didn't care about you.

[00:21:20] I wonder if that's even in some ways trickier for someone like you who's in the health field.

[00:21:25] Yes.

[00:21:26] Maybe in a way you expect more from health care professionals, whereas I don't see them very often.

[00:21:31] It's not my life.

[00:21:32] That could be.

[00:21:33] That really could be.

[00:21:35] You think the big difference between Wisconsin and California, those days where people gave a shit at one and they didn't seem to give a shit at the other?

[00:21:41] I think so.

[00:21:43] How long were you there for?

[00:21:44] I think about the same time, a little, no it was about right out of week.

[00:21:48] Jones didn't get the hell out of there I bet.

[00:21:50] Oh I was.

[00:21:52] Did you have to lie your way out?

[00:21:54] It was kind of a yeah, I'm doing a lot better.

[00:21:57] I'm doing great.

[00:21:58] I feel better.

[00:21:59] It was everything to get out of there.

[00:22:01] That's 2023.

[00:22:02] So do you remember what month or season?

[00:22:05] Early like January.

[00:22:07] Okay, so over a year ago.

[00:22:08] Yeah.

[00:22:09] And about, don't need the exact day of course, about when did you find this podcast?

[00:22:14] I found the podcast in 2022.

[00:22:19] Oh.

[00:22:20] Actually.

[00:22:20] You know now that I listen to it, I listen to it on my way to work now and now I'm like you know wow, I should have listened to this more earlier.

[00:22:30] Is there an episode or two that you specifically remember that stands out?

[00:22:33] There was a girl from Finland and some of the things she talked about and I'm like wow, you know, like she lived up in northern Finland and was talking about living in darkness, like physical darkness.

[00:22:47] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:22:48] And I'm like, oh my gosh, I couldn't do that.

[00:22:50] I would go insane.

[00:22:52] You might adapt but who knows you might go insane.

[00:22:55] Oh, I couldn't do it.

[00:22:57] Like on rainy days here or cloudy days.

[00:23:00] I just I have the fight to get out of bed sometimes.

[00:23:03] Do you think in however many weeks it ends up being that because you say you somewhat regularly listen to them, you will listen when it is your time to be heard and it's your episode and you hear the little blurb and then I say today I am talking with Ash.

[00:23:18] Ash lives in California.

[00:23:20] You know, I don't know.

[00:23:22] Maybe.

[00:23:23] I haven't decided yet.

[00:23:25] Do you think you'll tell your friend who's in the room about it?

[00:23:28] Probably.

[00:23:28] Will there be anybody else who knows about it?

[00:23:30] There is one more person that knows about it.

[00:23:33] My friend in Colorado knows about it.

[00:23:35] And I imagine all of them those two people also know about at least one probably both because one of them is in the room right now about your suicide attempts.

[00:23:45] The one in Colorado knows about all of them and the other one knows.

[00:23:51] Well, right, right.

[00:23:52] Don't invite somebody to your house and talk about this if you don't want them to know all this stuff for sure.

[00:23:56] All right.

[00:23:56] Well, and she's one of my best friends.

[00:23:58] So she's not in the room.

[00:24:00] She's she's sitting in the living room right now.

[00:24:03] Cool.

[00:24:03] How many people know about the attempts?

[00:24:04] You have the two other people in your life.

[00:24:06] I'm curious.

[00:24:07] No doctor.

[00:24:09] Yeah, sure.

[00:24:12] I don't know how sure you are here.

[00:24:14] Ash.

[00:24:16] Sort of.

[00:24:17] This is the place where we don't bullshit.

[00:24:20] How do you explain it?

[00:24:22] Did they ask you?

[00:24:23] No, they didn't didn't ask.

[00:24:25] They wouldn't know.

[00:24:26] Yeah, I'm not going to push this.

[00:24:28] There's something you're not sharing, but that's fine.

[00:24:30] You want to revisit it later.

[00:24:31] You can share all you want.

[00:24:32] You had said that today you for lack of a better word are glad that those earlier half attempts didn't work.

[00:24:40] Yes.

[00:24:40] Does that also apply to 2017 2023?

[00:24:44] As of today, yes.

[00:24:45] What about yesterday?

[00:24:46] Yesterday?

[00:24:47] Yes, we I can't ask you about tomorrow.

[00:24:50] Yeah, I won't know.

[00:24:51] I won't know each day.

[00:24:52] I take it each day at a time.

[00:24:54] Yeah, I'm going to just ask this question earlier in the conversation than I usually do.

[00:24:59] Okay, and that's the pink and purple pill question.

[00:25:02] I give Ash a pill.

[00:25:03] It happens to be pink and purple because I chose it that way.

[00:25:06] She takes the pill or she saves it or she pushes it down the toilet.

[00:25:10] But if she takes it, she goes to bed.

[00:25:12] She falls asleep this time.

[00:25:14] She doesn't wake up.

[00:25:15] There is no pain and nobody actually knows it was a suicide.

[00:25:19] What do you do with that pill?

[00:25:20] I would save it.

[00:25:21] Bedside draw?

[00:25:23] Yeah, that's pretty easy access.

[00:25:25] Okay, just in case do you do anything other than it sounds like work, which you said you love that helps at all my photography.

[00:25:34] Oh, tell me more.

[00:25:36] I got into photography in paramedic school, but got more into it when I moved out here and took some classes.

[00:25:43] Just recently got a new camera and just love getting out and taking pictures.

[00:25:48] What do they tend to be of nature?

[00:25:50] Nature photos, friends pets, cityscapes.

[00:25:54] I love going to San Francisco and taking photos of just the city.

[00:25:58] So we're not talking about like I know how to use an iPhone really well to take photos.

[00:26:03] You're talking about real-time.

[00:26:04] Yeah, this is a like an expensive camera that you change lenses and like the real deal.

[00:26:11] Yeah, very few people know about your attempts.

[00:26:15] But given what you shared, I know there have been people in your life who you said the word bully probably said a lot of shitty things to you.

[00:26:24] I don't know if that's right.

[00:26:24] Yeah, so I know you have your friend in the room.

[00:26:27] Do you have people around to talk to you about stuff?

[00:26:30] That's typical.

[00:26:31] I do. I don't have a lot, but I have a few.

[00:26:35] Any of them at the paramedics base?

[00:26:37] The one that's here with me.

[00:26:38] She's an EMT.

[00:26:39] We work together.

[00:26:40] I feel like paramedics aren't as like macho as fire people.

[00:26:45] I was going to say firemen, but I got to be careful.

[00:26:47] Fire fighters.

[00:26:48] Thank you.

[00:26:49] Fire people.

[00:26:50] Fire fighters are a different breed.

[00:26:53] I was a firefighter for a couple years and firefighters are a different breed than paramedics.

[00:26:59] Police different, fire different, paramedics different.

[00:27:02] But on the top of that food chain are Wyoming Cowboys.

[00:27:05] Can we agree?

[00:27:06] Yeah, we can agree.

[00:27:07] I mean, it's not that your work isn't important.

[00:27:10] It's super important, but Wyoming Cowboys.

[00:27:12] Yeah.

[00:27:13] Yeah.

[00:27:14] I mean they have the daddy of them all the big rodeo Frontier days.

[00:27:18] Exactly.

[00:27:19] What do I have?

[00:27:20] Shit.

[00:27:21] Nobody's putting me on anywhere near the top of that.

[00:27:23] Believe me.

[00:27:24] At some point hopefully in 2024, I'm going to do like a cross-country thing and I'll be making my way through Wyoming.

[00:27:28] I can promise you that.

[00:27:30] Oh, yeah, you'll see some beautiful country.

[00:27:32] Oh, yeah, well how were the meds for you today?

[00:27:35] Good.

[00:27:35] But yeah, they're working.

[00:27:37] There's a lot more than we finally got a combination that works.

[00:27:39] Yeah took a long time.

[00:27:41] Yes, very long time.

[00:27:43] Are you somebody who was like I'm going to be on meds for life.

[00:27:45] That's fine.

[00:27:46] I just want to feel okay, or I want to get off one day.

[00:27:48] I finally accepted that I'm probably going to be on meds the rest of my life.

[00:27:52] Do you think you're going to die a natural death?

[00:27:54] I don't know.

[00:27:55] Like you said day by day.

[00:27:57] Yeah.

[00:27:58] When was the last time that you can recall where the ideating got bad enough where you were like,

[00:28:03] mm-hmm.

[00:28:04] Probably last attempt.

[00:28:06] So you've had over a year where it's been not as bad.

[00:28:09] Yeah.

[00:28:10] What tempted you to actually email me because that was pretty recent.

[00:28:14] I don't know.

[00:28:15] That's a good question.

[00:28:16] I try.

[00:28:18] It's just this would be the worst podcast and my all my questions sucked.

[00:28:22] But yeah, no, I mean seriously nothing that you can think of sort of like spark you like,

[00:28:27] Oh, no, you know what?

[00:28:28] Today's the day.

[00:28:28] I'm going to reach out to this dude.

[00:28:30] I don't know.

[00:28:30] It kind of looks like that, you know, that I was listening to the podcast and it was kind of like,

[00:28:36] yeah, you know what?

[00:28:37] I'm gonna reach out.

[00:28:38] I want to talk to him.

[00:28:40] I want to tell my story.

[00:28:41] Were you nervous?

[00:28:42] Yeah.

[00:28:43] But I do appreciate it because I know even if it's been some time,

[00:28:46] it can't necessarily be easy or comfortable perhaps to talk about these things.

[00:28:50] So I do appreciate you trusting me with that.

[00:28:53] Are there any myths?

[00:28:54] You know these questions or misconceptions you want to talk about dispel.

[00:28:57] I had some written down.

[00:28:58] The first one of course is the it's selfish.

[00:29:02] I don't believe it is.

[00:29:04] It's not that they're not thinking about others.

[00:29:07] They are I think about like, oh my gosh, what is it going to do to my my friends?

[00:29:12] My family, my nieces and nephew.

[00:29:14] What's it?

[00:29:15] What's it going to do to them?

[00:29:16] I think it's the least selfish thing.

[00:29:19] How so because you are worried about what it's going to do to them in my mind.

[00:29:24] That's that's all that's going through my mind.

[00:29:27] The next one is that it's for attention.

[00:29:30] It's not if I didn't if I hadn't gotten scared, I wouldn't have reached out.

[00:29:35] People don't know like like I said, I wear that mask.

[00:29:39] At least thing I want is attention.

[00:29:40] Probably got to work the word mask in your memoir somewhere.

[00:29:43] That's probably a good start.

[00:29:44] Yeah.

[00:29:45] Could be just saying it's a gift.

[00:29:47] Okay.

[00:29:48] Yeah.

[00:29:48] I'm gonna gloat.

[00:29:49] Those two are the top two.

[00:29:52] Those two are the two that like if you really had to do like to to miss that irk me.

[00:29:57] Those are the two.

[00:29:58] Are there any others that you can think of that aren't necessarily around suicide?

[00:30:02] But you've gone through a lot of things that all people who do this are crazy.

[00:30:11] This is an interesting one.

[00:30:13] Yes.

[00:30:14] What do you mean?

[00:30:15] That they automatically what people who attempt or who who hurt themselves or who you know,

[00:30:24] who deal with mental illness are quote unquote crazy and that's that's not the case.

[00:30:31] I don't even know how are we defining crazy?

[00:30:33] That's another whole thing.

[00:30:35] Yeah.

[00:30:35] Yeah, but people you know, people will be like, oh, they attempted.

[00:30:39] They're just crazy.

[00:30:40] Yeah.

[00:30:41] Do you write a note for either of your big attempt?

[00:30:43] No, I didn't.

[00:30:44] When I was a teenager, I always had one in the back of my journal.

[00:30:48] Really?

[00:30:49] It was like always there.

[00:30:50] Yep.

[00:30:51] Yep.

[00:30:51] Were you tweaking it over time or was it set?

[00:30:54] I would tweak it over time.

[00:30:56] Do you still have the journal?

[00:30:57] I do.

[00:30:58] It's all like turning blow and stuff from being around so long.

[00:31:04] It's been a minute.

[00:31:05] Has anybody ever seen it?

[00:31:07] No.

[00:31:07] Nobody that is for your eyes only.

[00:31:11] Yes.

[00:31:12] So do you think you're going to continue living in California?

[00:31:14] Is that sort of your forever home?

[00:31:16] You know, I think so.

[00:31:17] I like it here.

[00:31:18] I like I don't like the heat where I'm at, but I can tolerate it.

[00:31:23] The winters are gorgeous.

[00:31:25] Like today it's 70 something.

[00:31:28] Any words to your younger self?

[00:31:30] That's the question that I almost never ask, but I'm doing it today.

[00:31:34] That's a good one.

[00:31:35] Maybe I should ask him more to take things one day, one minute, one hour,

[00:31:41] one second, take things one step at a time because if I don't I get

[00:31:47] overwhelmed and that's when I get stressed and that's when things really

[00:31:50] start going downhill.

[00:31:52] I'm gonna guess it still applies today.

[00:31:54] Yeah.

[00:31:55] And also that it's not your fault.

[00:31:57] Do you have any words for the bullies?

[00:31:59] I don't know.

[00:32:00] Another good question.

[00:32:02] I mean, I'm just I'm just coming up with some good ones today.

[00:32:05] You are I'm trying but I am curious if you think about them ever.

[00:32:10] Hmm.

[00:32:11] I don't know.

[00:32:13] Now, do you think there's a question?

[00:32:14] I should ask that I haven't asked.

[00:32:15] Well, you want me to ask another tough question.

[00:32:19] When a lot of responsibility a lot of weight on you.

[00:32:21] That's unfair.

[00:32:22] I know but you put a lot of weight on my shoulders here.

[00:32:24] Yeah.

[00:32:26] That could apply to us right now or as you listen because you do

[00:32:28] listen a lot like have you ever thought why doesn't he ask this

[00:32:31] question about such-and-such, you know, I guess I've never thought

[00:32:35] that during a podcast.

[00:32:36] I've always thought that you covered things very well.

[00:32:40] So if you were running your own suicide noted related podcast,

[00:32:43] you'd ask similar questions.

[00:32:44] Maybe I would yeah.

[00:32:46] What's the rest of your day like honestly not much actually have

[00:32:51] a day off.

[00:32:52] So just kind of hanging out and it's nice outside not rainy.

[00:32:57] So that's good.

[00:32:58] No, it's gorgeous outside before we get back to our lives.

[00:33:02] Is there anything else you want to add?

[00:33:05] I don't think so.

[00:33:06] I think we've we've covered it pretty well.

[00:33:08] Good.

[00:33:09] I really do appreciate you talking with me.

[00:33:11] It was it was fun.

[00:33:12] It was great.

[00:33:13] Cool.

[00:33:13] Appreciate it and I hope to talk to you soon.

[00:33:16] Have a good day.

[00:33:16] Have a decent day.

[00:33:17] And yeah, thank you.

[00:33:18] Thank you.

[00:33:19] All right.

[00:33:19] Take care Ash.

[00:33:20] You too.

[00:33:22] Bye.

[00:33:26] As always thanks so much for listening and all of your support

[00:33:28] special thanks to Ash in California.

[00:33:30] Thanks Ash.

[00:33:32] If you are a suicide attempt survivor and you'd like to talk,

[00:33:35] please reach out.

[00:33:35] Hello at SuicideNoted.com

[00:33:38] Backup email just in case SuicideNoted at gmail.com

[00:33:43] You can also reach us on Facebook or Twitter slash x at Suicide

[00:33:47] Noted and if you're curious, you can check the show notes

[00:33:51] to learn more about the podcast including our membership

[00:33:55] and some other cool things.

[00:33:57] However, you support the podcast.

[00:33:59] However, you are involved.

[00:34:01] I really appreciate it.

[00:34:03] And that is all for episode number 210.

[00:34:06] Stay strong.

[00:34:07] Do the best you can.

[00:34:09] I'll talk to you soon.